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A narrative podcast from two bird lovers (and friends) exploring all things bird.
Lions are probably flat earthers.
I'm Hannah.
And I'm Cleo, and you're listening to Birds on Birds.
Welcome back to Birds on Birds and Ornithological Odyssey.
Today.
We're going to be talking about birds, which is what we always talk about.
That's what we do. The only thing we want to talk about.
Although there may be some side plot episodes coming out soon that are bird adjacent.
Yeah.
Well, because there's a lot of bird adjacents out there, and we want to make sure they're represented.
We like to cover everything bird related and that includes the adjacent.
So man, just keep an eye at touches.
It's our kingdom.
Anyway, what are we talking about today, Hannah?
We're talking about the snowy egret.
I'm actually like so excited.
I'm looking at photos of them. And how, like, floofy they can get, and I just, like, can't wait for you to tell me.
No, there's a lot about their floof that I have to tell you today.
I'm excited.
Oh, it's stunning.
I'm so excited Yeah, they are gorgeous.
If you've never seen them, they are fairly common in North America, but even extending down into a lot of South America, like they are year round in the majority of South America, if you look at a map, there's just like this one strip along just inside of the coast of basically the entirety of South America that they don't inhabit, but everywhere else, they're pretty predominant until you get to the upper north states of the United States, they never really go there.
Yeah, it looks like Central America as well.
Yes, Central America, super predominant. At least in the winter, but then year round populations across all of the coast.
Right, right.
And so yeah, they are they are prevalent in our side of the world.
And let's get into it.
So, also just like a majestic name, snowy egret, like they're like, we are way to snow and we are making that known.
Which is really interesting though, because they, as far as I know, do not enjoy cult.
No, I think they need avoid it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they look snowy.
They look like, but not like a snowy owl where they like the snow and they blend in.
They are snowy because of their appearance.
Yep.
So in regards to their appearance, that brings me to their other nicknames.
So they are known as golden slippers, because they have these very distinguished yellow feet, but unlike basically all the birds that we've talked about, their legs are black, like dark black.
So their feet stand out.
A lot of birds have yellow feet or like an orange yellow, a lot of the finches and stuff.
It's more of that like pinky color, sometimes like a black gray.
But this, it's like this dark, dark black legs and then their feet, just their feet, just their toes are bright yellow.
And they actually get brighter in nuptial season.
Well, I think this is a good time to remind everybody too, that like the foot of a bird, like the ankle remind me, it's the ankle would be like where we think their knee is.
Yes.
So when we say toes, we mean everything that's touching the ground.
Right, literally just their toes.
Right.
So if it was your hand, it would be like from your knuckle that is touching your palms down to your nails.
Yes.
But on a bird, it looks like their ankles down to their feet.
Kind of, yeah.
You don't realize that their knee section is actually their ankle.
Right.
We talked about this a long time ago. Sandhill cranes. Yeah because we learned specifically about these types of birds anatomies more specifically.
Specifically specifically.
Twice, because it's very specific. So specific in that episode.
It's so specifically, go listen to it if you want to get it.
Specifically, it's episode three.
They are also historically called the bridal plume bird in the millinery trade, which millinery.
It is the hat trade.
What?
Yeah.
That's not a real word.
Yeah, millinery is an actual trade that was very common back in the day, but as hats have come in and out of fashion, especially these like over the top types of hats. Weird.
Um, but they're specific feathers are known for being associated with like bridal veils and different bridal outfits, um, because of probably the white. Light they are.
Yeah.
Yeah. And they're so billowy.
Can you imagine if like giant wedding hats came back into style, like Kentucky derby style wedding hats?
I do think there's certain things that would limit the ability to be the way it was.
Well, yes, that's true.
I also think in British culture.
They do still do the big hat thing.
They do.
If you watch royal wedding.
No, even normal weddings.
If you watch Love is Blind UK, the families, if they're like deeply entrenched in like Europe culture, like UK culture, they show up wearing big fancy hats.
Interesting.
It's really like now modern times.
It's really interesting.
They're not quite as like a Kentucky Derby, but it's definitely a cultural thing.
No, it's it's interesting.
It's not the bride, to be clear.
Correct families.
But I would imagine the bride wearing a big hat.
Imagine that being bridal style.
Instead of a veil or something.
But with fake feathers.
Right. We don't do that anymore.
Yeah, but we'll get into it because this bird specifically has a lot of history with that.
So, scientific name, Ygretta Tula. Iconic.
I mean, it kind of just sounds like a cool name from like Italy or something.
I was thinking Germany, but yeah.
Yeah, or that.
I'm really bad with accents and like anything that is geographically associated.
It's not mince words.
My accents are not good.
So there's also that.
Let's not main squirt.
Okay.
But their size.
So I have some different measurements here.
So I also am comparing them to a well-known relative.
So their length is 22 to 26 inches, so 56 to 66 centimeters.
Their weight is about 13 ounces, so about 370 grams.
How much cottage cheese do you think that is?
That's 3 servings if you get the 2%.
Okay perfect.
Fat, cottage cheese from good culture.
Damn.
Okay.
It's a lot of protein.
Yeah, it's a lot of protein.
But also, like, it's not a small bird.
No, it's not a small bird.
It's not a lot cottage cheese for this bird.
For a 2 foot tall bird?
Yeah, right.
Um, and 26 inches?
Yeah, 2 feet.
A little more?
Tip to tip.
Wingspan is drum roll, about 40 inches.
So, double.
Yeah, bait.
Not quite double, but close.
Makes sense, though, because this family of birds, like it's all different herons and such.
They've got the big wings.
Well, if they were a strawberry fin, should be 90 inches.
Right.
But no confirmed stats on that.
Yeah, if you missed that joke.
Go back and listen to our last episode on the strawberry finch.
So, Merlin typically would put snowy egrets right between a crow and a goose.
What?
I know.
They didn't even say goose sized or larger.
And I double checked this. Perplexed by that.
I know.
Well, okay, here's what I will say.
They're long neck boys.
I was going to say, they're definitely taller.
They're very slender.
So maybe they're going by like overall...
Yeah.
Rather than actual height.
Right.
Tip to tip.
Right.
But also geese might be tip to tip because they do have kind of long necks.
They just are quite curved and their bodies are a little more sloped.
I don't really know.
I don't really understand that.
Well, yeah.
I think if you looked at a goose body right next to a snowy egret body.
You could see that the snow egret is a little smaller, but I do think they appear bigger than a goose because of their height.
Okay.
That's good to know.
That is fascinating.
They have longer legs in addition to a longer neck.
I definitely would have expected it to say goose size or larger.
So that's a good perspective to put it in.
It is.
And because of that, I also was double checking things and found the great egret is the most commonly compared animal.
Right.
But they are significantly smaller than the great egret.
Yes.
So it's not the same as when we talked about the sandhill cranes, there was the lesser sandhill crane, and then the greater sandhill crane, and they were definitely different in size, but not nearly as dramatic.
So with the great egret.
They have other differences as well, so this is just the only tidbit on the grate, but their length is about 37 to 40 inches compared to 22 to 26.
So definitely a good amount, not twice the size, but close.
And then weight is 35.3 ounces, 1000 grams for the, for the greatest. More than double.
Okay, heard.
And then their wingspan, so wingspan of the snowy is about 40 inches.
Wingspan of the great egret is 51 to 57 inches.
Okay, I see.
So that's quite a bit of difference when you put it in perspective.
It is more like daddy daughter.
Right.
Yep, exactly.
So, wasn't what I was thinking, but it's 100% correct.
So the only other thing as far as lifespan is that the oldest recorded individual was 17 years and 7 months, they were 1st banded here in Colorado in 1970.
Wow.
And then they were found in Mexico in 1988.
So about 18 years.
Wait, what's their normal lifespan?
So typical lifespan would be lower closer to like 2 to 5?
But they are a bigger bird.
So I think they can live longer, but this the longest recorded is this one that was somewhere between 17 and 18 years old.
That's awesome.
I do imagine that in the wild, because you have factors like predation, it's harder to know, but it is cool to know that they can live, you know, up to 18 years, if not maybe longer, depending on, you know, is it still alive when it was found in Mexico, who knows how long it lived after that?
Exactly.
Let's get into the actual look.
We've mentioned it a bit, but the male and the female do look alike.
Yep.
They occasionally will have a slight difference during nuptial season where there's like a brighter yellow for some of the yellow parts on the male, but overall they look identical.
Okay.
Males have a are a slender white heron.
So they are related to like the great blue heron or the gray heron that you'll hear about a lot more.
They have a black bill. Very, very dark black.
Black legs, which I mentioned already, and then bright yellow feet.
I'm obsessed.
They have these beautiful, curving, floofy plumes on the back of their neck, mostly the back of their head and their neck. This, it's not a crest.
Like, occasionally, they'll kind of loof it up extra, but it's not necessarily like the same as like a crested cara where it's like constantly fluffed up.
It looks kind of like what a rat tail unbraided looks like.
That's a mean way of saying it.
Well, I actually think a rat tail can fuck.
But if you were gonna, it's not a mohawk. Just got those like very specific type of feathers and they're down on the back of the neck, but they are laying in such a way that they just look like its own little tuft of hair separate from everything else.
Yes.
No, there's something about it where during breeding season, it's very present, it's much more flowy and curvy and fluffy, and it separates from their rather like, I would say, standard standard white feathers, like very flat, very, you know, non-deformed to their body.
Yeah.
They also have some like kind of on their neck towards the bottom.
Yes, in like a, they do kind of look like hair strands.
Like the feathers are so like fine.
Yes.
Very, very thin.
I'm thinking like how to describe it, but I think the only thing I can really compare it to is like if you were to go to like Hobby Lobby or Michael's or something and you were going to go to the floral department to get like made up pieces to put together. And like made up yeah, or even feathers.
I think they have feathers over there sometimes.
And it's like those big separated ones that are like, they almost look like little hair strands.
Yes. Coming out and they're just like really like, um, they're just much less like, uh, of your typical like, I found a feather on the ground and more like hair.
They're not more thick hair. Very, very, very fine.
Yeah, and they're separated.
Yes.
So they're easier to distinguish that they look different.
And they do, they look a little bit like hair.
It's really cool Yeah, it is very interesting.
They also have a bright yellow facial skin.
So just past their bill.
So dark black bill, and then it goes into their eyes and all around their eyes is a very bright yellow lore.
Um, but it is their actual skin.
It's it's, there's no feathers there.
Yeah.
It can occasionally get like an orangey yellow brightness in the height of breeding or nuptial season, but it is very distinctly yellow.
Yeah, I would agree.
I mean, I guess it could get dark in like an orangey way, but I would say that even when I've seen the photos of it more of an orange color, it's still to me reads as like a bright yellow, especially when you see the feet at the same time because this bird has 3 colors and that's it.
And they're all very contrasty.
It's like whole white body.
Black bill, black legs.
Black ankles, I guess.
And then yellow face skin, same color as yellow feet.
Yeah, it's very yellow eyes.
Yeah, exactly.
And yellow eyes. It's just got like a very nice color palette that's quite contrasting and quite striking.
Yes.
There's nothing touching each other that is the same color except for white.
As a juvenile, they're duller overall, so not quite as bright of a white, more of like a gray white, and then they can, they're black. Is more of that greenish black.
So not as deep of a black.
It's more greenish or grayish for their bills and their legs.
And a lot of people easily confuse them with a little blue heron, which is not to be confused with a great blue heron, which they would never be confused with because they look totally different besides their shape of their body, I guess.
Yeah.
But the little blue heron is more white.
And so the juveniles can get confused.
Right. Makes sense.
For the sound, we did a listen started and it really upset me.
I didn't like it.
Well, it's funny because I totally, I was like, it sounds like kind of the most like a goose of any of the birds that we've done since geese.
And it sounds like it's been a smoker for a long time.
It does.
They get really raspy and, like, dude.
Like, it's hard to describe, but it's like if someone's like, yes, like, it's just, like, long drawn out, and then it almost like cracks a little bit, even like, the voice when your voice cracks.
Yep.
It's not my favorite sound.
I've ever heard for such a beautiful, gorgeous, striking bird.
It's definitely got smoker now. Songbird type. Yeah What's what is it called?
Emphysema.
Yeah, emphysema.
I mean, even the description in all about birds is a harsh, rasping squawk.
And that is accurate.
Okay, so now let's get into the location.
I kind of highlighted this at the top when we were talking about like how widespread they are in comparison to some of the other heron types that they're related to, but they often are going to be in coastal water areas.
So here in Denver, I saw them at the arsenal because there's lots of different wetlands and little lakes.
So they are here in the summertime, but year round.
They are wherever there is good water and they're breeding.
They specifically need like thick vegetation on coastal areas.
So they need like salt marsh, islands, swamps, different types of areas where there's thick vegetation and water like right up next to each other.
Okay.
They winter in mangroves, freshwater swamps, temporary pools.
Do you always say mangroves?
How do you say it?
Mangroves?
Mangroves.
Oh my god.
When you said mangroves.
I was like, they're going where?
They're going to the groves of men.
And I was like, I have to, I'm going to ask you this one more time.
I've never heard anybody say mangroves.
It's probably because I didn't grow up with or were.
Mangroves.
And I center men in my life.
The patriarchy comes again.
Anyway, they winter in mangroves, and saltwater lagoons, freshwater swamps, et cetera.
So they still, again, they need the water and they need the vegetation.
That's cool that they can do fresh and salt water.
I do think a lot of, yeah, that makes sense because I don't know that the great egret can do fresh water.
I haven't looked into it expensively, but they're mostly on the coast.
So I would imagine the coast of water. Ocean.
Yeah, because the snowy egrets can be found more inland, but it does make sense too, because there's a lot of like brackish water territories in those areas as well.
So that's that is interesting.
Interesting.
Okay.
And as I mentioned, again, at the top, the South American population and Central American population is mostly year round.
They don't necessarily winter, summer in different spots.
But here, we would only see them in the summer because of the weather.
They need it to be a certain temperature and it would be too cold here during the winter.
That makes sense.
So for mating habits, males fight for territory and perform loud courtship displays.
So they pump their body up and down.
Um, it's kind of similar to this crane dance.
The Sandhill cranes?
Yeah.
As soon as you said that, it kind of, where they like, hop up and almost look like, are we gonna fight?
Are we gonna spread their wings out?
Yeah.
Okay.
Do the thing like almost like they're about to fly, but then they're actually just coming at somebody else.
And again, it's very similar to the sandhill crane where there's often a whole ring of them kind of doing it and alternating with each other.
Yeah.
A lot of the other egrets will be like watching.
It sounds very like fight club, like 2 of them go in the middle. And the other egrets are like watching and then they switch spots.
Okay sure.
But their displays do often include an aerial tumble toward the ground.
So they jump higher than the sand hill cranes. Love it.
Yeah.
They do, once they pair, they do trade off incubation duty, and they do this cute thing where the one presents a stick to the other as they're passing off incubation duty.
It's almost like a little baton pass and a relay.
That's really funny. Like the talking stick that you see when people are having like interventions.
Yes.
They're like, Conflict resolution.
Yes.
You have this incubation stick now.
It's like, this is yours. Mommy needs her alone time.
Mommy times, she's not babysitting.
You the dad.
It's not babysitting if it's your baby.
Incredible.
That's adorable.
Is it that you probably don't know this?
Is it the same stick that they just pass back and forth or they pick up a stick on their way back?
Ooh, I don't know.
And like, how long do they hold on to it once they pass?
Because in my mind, they're like maybe adding it to the nest.
The person comes back with a stick when they're done and they're like, okay, this is the reconciliation.
We get to switch stick.
But I picked this stick for you each time.
I don't know.
There's no way that there's like a ton of info about that.
That's got to be like someone who specifically.. To study in the future.
Yeah, researches to an extensive observation.
Do they pick their stick?
Yep.
It's one episode.
It'll be 3 hours long.
Because we've watched them for like 12 days.
Absolutely.
So as far as the nest because as I mentioned, they take incubation duty shifts, but the male actually starts the nest before he's even founded mate.
So it's kind of part of his mating process.
The female does most of the building with the material that he supplied, but he like, he starts the process.
He collects the materials.
He maybe builds a base, and then the female comes in and is like, okay, okay, I'll get this done for us.
Yeah.
Okay.
The nest sits in the top or outer branches of a shrub vine or tree within the colony.
So it is a little higher off the ground than previous waterfowl that we've talked through.
Okay.
It's a shallow oval with loosely woven twigs, grasses, sedges, Spanish moths, anything that they need to like make it come together.
It's about 14 to 18 inches across.
Okay.
So not small.
That feels relative to body size.
Yeah.
They typically have a clutch of 2 to 6 eggs, they're eggs are a pale greenish blue.
It takes 24 to 25 days to incubate, and then the chicks hatch, and they look like dinosaurs.
They um, and then the dinosaur vibe.
It's just the way their beak is.
It's the wily feathers.
Yes.
It's like they, those downy feathers that kind of look like hair that I think a lot of baby birds have when they 1st get their 1st set after they have their, what did I call it?
Newborn pink.
That's not what it was called.
Hatchling pink.
They have, um, they, yeah, they look CGI rendered for dinosaurs by Morgan Freeman and Stevens Wilber, who I almost called Stanley Spielberg.
No, the little dinosaurs that had feathers and shit.
It kind of looks like that. Really cute, though.
Yes.
They have like a really crazy body proportions, though.
Well, and they're eye and face.
Like, doesn't it look very prehistoric?
Very prehistoric because the beak is just way too big. For everything else.
It's way too big.
And the feet, the beak and the feet are massive.
Everything else in the middle is baby size.
Those too big comparatively.
And they do just look like they look like little mohawks.
I don't know.
They're really, they're quite cute.
I do think they look a lot like baby dinosaurs.
I like them a lot.
Yeah, they're really cute.
I actually was 1st starting to think about egrets and covering them in an episode because I saw this adorable video of these snowy egret babies, like asking for food and I was like, 0 my god, these little dinosaur hatchlings are so adorable.
Yeah, and I was on Birds of the World just now, which I like to do as you talk because I like to look at the pictures and stuff.
And I found a new word on here that I thought would be fun to share.
Semi-altricial.
Altricial.
I don't know how exactly to pronounce that, birds, which means they are hatched, covered in down feathers, and they stay in the nest relying entirely on their parents for food, but they're split into 2 groups, which is one that the chicks hatch with open eyes, like hawks and herons, or they hatch with closed eyes, like owls.
How do they determine that?
I think it depends on the bird type.
Like, so that these, basically, these type of birds, these semi-altricial, I'm making up how to pronounce that, birds, are specifically born with down feathers and then they're like completely reliant on the parent, which I've never seen.
I feel like a lot of the birds we've talked about have been considered in that way.
And it's categorized as they're literally semi-altricial one or semi-altricial two.
So it's either one, literally, your like hawks, herons, and storks, and that's what their eyes are open and they're immediately around, or owls, which are a primary example of the subsection two, which are eyes are remaining closed at hatching, which is really interesting.
I don't know that I ever considered...
Yeah. That birds ever had their eyes closed, kind of like puppies.
You know?
Like I just thought they all were born with their eyes open.
So now we know that they're not in a semi altricial, which I am not totally certain I'm saying correctly.
It's spelled like A-L-T-R-I-C-I-A-L. I would have pronounced it the same.
So I thought that was interesting.
I didn't know what that word meant.
I googled it and now we all know.
Well, we remember to say that one?
No.
Probably not.
But it's interesting.
I love it.
No, they're very cute and weird.
So as far as diet, they eat very aquatically.
So they eat fish, frogs, worms, crustaceans, insects, but almost entirely from the water itself.
They have an active foraging style.
So they kind of stir things up with their big, beautiful golden slippers.
And then they sometimes even kind of like hop around, move one foot up and plunge it down.
They do different things to try and stir it up.
And if you look at a video of them hunting.
Sometimes they are hopping quite a bit, but then they just plunge that bill in and they grab it and it's very cool and awesome.
Yeah, there is a picture on all about birds that I will be saving for a future tattoo where there's one that is running across the beach and it is showing that it stalks, walks or runs after fish and frogs. And it's like hopping in the air with its body forward.
You can tell it's like running and I'm obsessed with this photo because you can really see its little weird feet and its wings.
It's very iconic. Very cool.
Everybody can get a tattoo of it because it's not, I don't own birds. But it's on my tattoo inspiration board.
Yeah.
No they're sick.
And they're just...
They're very much like if you ever want...
I don't know.
Different people have different childhoods, but if you ever had a childhood where you like were looking at fish in a lake and you were like, if I just move my hands so quickly in the water, I'll be able to grab the fish and pull it out and say hello.
It's like that.
I am very still.
I did I did have I did have that.
I caught minnows as a child and I just did it with a net.
I never thought, what if I could catch this fish with my hands?
But I love that you thought that.
And I believe in you.
I think you could do that.
Just pick it up, give it a little kiss, drop it down. Perfect.
I just want to be friends. Love it.
But they are very, very, very still once they get the prey they want and then they just strike down into the water.
So cool.
They feed much more actively than most herons.
So they're really sensitive to any change in their resource availability of food.
So wetland loss and shifting water levels really directly impact what they can put on their plate.
Yeah.
Their conservation status outside of this concern of potentially losing resources.
They are very low concern.
The global breeding population is estimated at just above 2000000 and it's been stable since 1966 when they did the breeding bird survey.
Nice.
The species did already survive nearly going extinct.
The plume hunting for their very fancy feathers nearly wiped them out until the trade was curtailed in North America and the UK.
Um, The current fight is just the habitat loss.
So just making sure that we're not losing as many acres of habitats, um, which we still are.
So, it's just about wetland conservation.
It looks like the only other thing too.
I see one on birds of the world that says ingestion of plastics and lead.
Um, specifically in places like New York or where they're like much more built, it looks like similar to, was it Laisson albatrosses that were having regurgitations in the nest found with resin pellets and Styrofoam.
Yeah.
So trash.
Yep, literal trash.
Literal trash.
And I think that's even more common with the ones who live on the coast of an ocean, um, and unfortunately just have more of that debris and stuff to tackle. Sad.
But because they're so common on coasts and when we're polluting our oceans, microplastics, and things like that do, again, it builds up.
It makes a difference.
It really makes a difference.
Yeah.
Please think about it.
But yeah, I mean, a big part of why I'm even talking about it is because we, my husband, Chris, and I saw them hunting in the lake, the Rocky Mountain Arsenal.
Oh, cool.
And we watched...
I'm not sure.
There was 2 of them, and I have no idea if they were a pair or related in any way.
They are very, they're fairly solitary as far as hunting is concerned.
Like, they never got that close to each other, but one of them was kind of stunning itself and preening a bit, and then the other one was hunting.
And there's this really cool shot where its wings are spread a little bit cocked back while it's about to strike into the water and grab a fish and it's fucking awesome.
You can see like the reflection.
That was a big reason why I wanted to like look into it more.
But then the other reason is I recently read the book Ten Birds that Changed the World by Stephen Moss.
It was published in 2023.
And one of the chapters is about the snowy egret and the millinery trade, which is our new favorite trade.
So millinery.
It is one of 10 species.
The title of the book did not lie.
There are 10 birds that change the world, according to Stephen, but there's a raven, eagle, pigeon, wild turkey, dodo, Darwin's finches, cormorant, tree sparrow, and emperor penguin that are all covered in different chapters.
But, It is about how birds have shaped human history and vice versa.
So his specific chapter on the snowy egret centers on the years between 1870 and 1920.
But during that time, 1000000s of snowy egrets were killed for their breeding plumes, prized for women's hats, almost entirely just women's hats, there were, I mean, I'm sure some that were used for men's accents, but the women's hats had a lot more feathers.
They were a lot larger and they needed more of that.
Women wearing the hats were publicly vilified as like the 1st action.
It took a lot longer for that vilification to actually turn into doing anything about it.
Right.
So, as per usual.
Um, it it took a minute.
And it also, unfortunately, all of the vilification was mostly focused on these women wearing the hats and not on the men hunting, killing, and profiting from the trade of selling these.
So just something to remember that, yes, they're buying into this trade, but they did not invent it.
Yeah, I think that's a huge point for just in general. When we think about when we try to shame people for, um, you know, let's say eating meat.
There was a time in my life where I used to make people feel bad about that.
So I'm adding myself here.
Um, you know, where like you feel bad about that.
But at the end of the day, like it's the systems that are put into place in the larger governments who are responsible for large scale things, not individual citizens.
And it's kind of a similar thing here.
Although I do think when you know better, you can choose to do better.
Yes, but it's a good point to make.
And I'm looking at some of the pictures of these hats.
And you can tell that they definitely, you can tell that the feathery, sorry, not the feathery, the hair like feathers were the ones that were really prized.
And because the egret seemingly has the snowy egret specifically seemingly has less of those than its other feathers.
No, definitely.
You would imagine you would need a lot more.
Yes. Egrets to make these like really, they're kind of cool.
I hate to say it, but one of the pictures I'm looking at is pretty cool.
They're beautiful.
Not cool enough to be killing birds over it, but it is an interesting look back into history for sure.
100%.
100%.
But Moss does frame that the backlash to the feather trade was a direct line to the formation of the Royal Society for the protection of birds, which is called RSPB.
It's actually very well known, and also the National Audubon Society, which is what we have in the United States.
Cool.
Those formed around like the 1890s.
And again, I, he cites that this was a huge, this was a part of the reaction to figuring out that we were fucking the environment and these poor birds.
Yeah.
Well, and it's just like what we talked about a couple episodes ago where I was talking about Shark Week and how a lot of people who were involved in conservation of certain species were directly, especially a long time ago, were directly involved in their hunting or gathering or whatever.
And they noticed the difference it was making and they became part of the solution and devoted their lives to the opposite.
And so, um, you know, sometimes those types of a lot of times those types of things happen.
Or we have the opposite where things are made, like with like birth control, with eugenics in mind.
But it ends up being like awesome, but the intention was like not great.
Not, you know, great to toll.
But it is interesting how things like that can come out of those things.
And it seems to be a common thing that happens, which I appreciate.
I appreciate.
I think there's like a genuine love and connection that people build for animals in these spaces sometimes and then they do something about it. And I love that.
Yeah, and it's cool that the trade and the anger and the outrage, it involved creating these conservation societies that people could be more actively involved in, but it also created real legislation.
So there's the Lacy Act. The Weeks McLean Act, and the migratory Bird Treaty Act, which we've referenced the migratory Bird Treaty Act before.
It's why some birds that we've already talked about, it's illegal to hunt them. And different things like that.
So, um, these are real, real actions that were taken, not just clubs that were formed for, like, good times, but instead, like actual conservation movements that really created more environmental protection rather than environmental uh, objectification, I guess, like enjoying the environment for the, the vibes, the aesthetics, but instead enjoying the environment and protecting what we have and trying to conserve that.
So it's really cool.
And he cites it as one of the founding moments of actual organized conservation saving an entire species.
So, very cool.
So that's kind of my whole spiel on the snowy egret.
Obsessed with her.
Yes.
So I'm curious.
I have one actually.
I have some ideas that I want to talk through.
But I want to hear if there was a celebrity or an archetype of a person, what's the vibe?
Because I could see this going several directions.
Yeah, yeah.
I feel the same way as we were doing this.
So as we've mentioned recently, we used to tell each other what we were doing early.
And for whatever reason, we stopped doing that.
And that's totally fine because it's been fun to like jump into it at the same time and we don't look into each other's birds or think too heavily about it.
But immediately when I was looking at it, especially when you look at the breeding season males, there are some pictures of them and they are so they look like they're wearing almost like a gown made of silk fibers.
Like it's like so fluffy and flowy and it like, I can't even, it looks like a stuffed animal. Like it doesn't look like a real bird.
So what I thought of, which is not actually a celebrity or an archetype, but a character, played by a celebrity, if you will, is the final, it's actually a specific scene too, from the character.
So we're getting really specific here.
I love this.
But Edward Scissorhands.
There's the scene where he makes fake snow and Winona Ryder's character is in a white dress and she's like spinning in circles under this fake snow that he's making.
And immediately, that's what I thought of when I was looking at these birds.
And I couldn't think of anything else.
And then I was like, ah, but it's snow, but they're in California and it's not real snow.
Right.
And she looks so ethereal the same way that I think these birds look really a thing.
So my pitch is for that very specific scene.
Okay, in Edward Scissorhands with Winona Ryder.
For so many reasons.
One, I do think Winona kind of has an egrit. Got bird vibes for sure.
I could see that 100%.
She's also a little edgy, which that's why I was like, this could go multiple directions because I do think they have this bridal look.
They're very white.
They have these gorgeous tethers, but they're hunters.
They're kind of metal and sometimes the way they're like jumping down and their feathers are flying up.
Like, they kind of look like a hard rocker sometimes, even.
Totally.
Yeah.
We could go a lot of directions with this bird.
Depending on the photo you're looking at. Exactly.
There's a lot of direction.
I don't know.
I don't know anyone with famous yellow shoes, but we could go that direction.
Yeah.
Only blue suede shoes, unfortunately.
One day.
But it's actually funny that you mentioned it's a very specific scene.
It's a very specific look.
Look, you have that too?
I have that too.
Okay, tell me.
Okay.
But I'm also now just thinking about Johnny Depp and Winona writer and how I hate Johnny Depp.
I also hate him, but continue.
Fuck that guy.
He sucks.
That's a good movie, though.
Yeah, you agree. See it.
I am referencing a very specific scene in My Fair Lady.
Have you ever seen it?
No.
Okay.
It's old.
It's a 19 it's from 1964.
I grew up watching it because it's Audrey Hepburn and she's lovely and I loved a musical back in the day and I used to sing all the time.
Um, this, this was my favorite musical growing up was, um, my fair lady.
But there's a very specific scene, and a lot of the covers of this movie are actually referencing the scene, but it's a, they go to a horse race event.
It's kind of like a Kentucky derby situation, but very high society, a lot of royals are in attendance.
And this is literally what caused a near extinction of this bird is like events like this with these giant ass hats and these gorgeous gowns that potentially also had feathers at times.
But that scene and what she's wearing.
It's kind of got a Cruella DeVille.
Yes.
It's very like black and white contrast, which I do think, given the black and white contrast of the egret and the big hat, I could totally see it.
Yeah, I could totally see it.
Yeah, and she is similar to Winona, where she's very slender, birdie at times.
Um, a very small body.
And then in this image, very large head because of the hat.
So huge.
And it does in some pictures have some yellow in there as well.
So it's black, white, and yellow.
I could totally see it.
I don't have any like real reference point to this as far as like actually seeing the movie.
But I'm not I'm not mad at it.
No, it's the event they go to is called the Ascot gabot, which I'm like, whoa.
No, I've been to hundreds.
Ascot kebat.
I'm a mainstay.
I'm on the guest list for every single one.
It was just cool because that was what came into my mind, but also it's literally like what happened that caused the all of the conservation to follow.
Yeah, that's a good one.
I really like that.
I like both of those.
I think they're good. Good options and they will live in a similar space.
Yeah, which I love when that happens because that did happen totally accidentally.
Exactly.
So sleigh for that.
No.
It's not like you even would have context for why I would be talking about that because you've never seen it.
That's...
But one day I'll make you a peter kid, but I wasn't like, the only thing that I've ever really been a special interest of mine is animals.
So I have other things that I'm interested in, but I don't hold or maintain fun facts for other things the way I do for animals.
So they'll be like interested or have history with other things like theater, but I don't know all the theater.
I don't know all the songs.
I couldn't go to like a Broadway musical house night where someone sits at the piano and everyone just sings songs together.
I could not either.
I couldn't I wouldn't do well in that space.
I like musicals.
I just have very specific ones I know, and I'm open to seeing new ones and liking them, but I am not someone who actively was involved in my own musical theater.
I was actually in the pit orchestra a couple times, but that is a very different vibe.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
So I love that.
I loved this episode and I think they're such cool birds.
I didn't know they were out here.
So in Florida they have them.
And they also have other types of egrets and ibises, which are all kind of in a similar...
I would say there's certain ibises, the white ibis that you might maybe confuse this for it.
Similar veins, for sure, this type of bird.
And that makes sense because they're water birds, shorebirds, like herons.
They kind of exist in, they're all very similar shape.
And a lot of them are white.
But I didn't know we had them in Colorado.
I remember Hannah bringing it up to me and being like, those live out here.
I didn't know that.
So, it was a lot of fun.
There's actually the one that I'm obsessed with.
Um, the picture I was talking about.
I'm looking at it right now was taken in Palm Beach, Florida, which is where I'm from.
There you go.
So that's super exciting and really fun.
So with that, I think you should stop doom scrolling and go buy some flashy shoes.
Do that.
Honestly.
Yeah.
Go buy some shoes that make you feel real cool and real tough.
And maybe put on some black lipstick.
I don't know.
Do people still do that?
Maybe do teeth whiteners first, though, because if you've ever put on black lipstick without putting your teeth whitener on, nothing will make you realize the color of your teeth quite like a black lipstick.
Shit.
I have someone who drinks a lot of coffee.
I have been humbled deeply by wearing a dark lipstick and not doing a teeth whitener strip.
So don't do that.
But maybe, I don't know, stop doom scrolling and whiten your teeth if you feel like it.
If you feel like it.
You can actually listen to our podcast while you whiten your teeth if you wanted.
And honestly, it's recommended.
Four out of 5 dentists say, if you whiten your teeth while you listen to birds on birds, you'll get better results.
Yeah.
4.5 out of five, actually.
Stop doom scrolling.
Listening and whitening.
Please.
And with that.
Stay cool, bird boy.