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The Good Wife Season 6 Episode 7, "Message Discipline," splits clean down the middle: Cary's case and Alicia's campaign, with barely room for anything else. Finn goes hunting for what really happened during Cary Agos's time at the state's attorney's office and turns up two missing kilos, a case board, and a very pointed conversation with Geneva Pine. Diane fights a proof-of-other-crimes charge while Kalinda works a 30-foot leash and a lab tech with a suspicious bank balance. Meanwhile Alicia meets a Chicago broadcasting institution played by David Hyde Pierce, gets a brutal media-prep session from Elfman, and walks into an interview nobody prepared her for. Somebody quits. Somebody else announces. Jason and Marissa also settle the cheese curd question.
00:00 – Cold open: the missing Milwaukee cheese curds, and what a cheese curd actually is
03:45 – Finn asks for 60 more days, gets a yelly judge instead
07:32 – The case board, Geneva Pine, and the real story behind Cary's administrative leave
17:01 – Proof of other crimes: Diane goes after Geneva on the stand
24:57 – Kalinda, the lab tech, and a riverboat casino story that doesn't hold up
39:11 – Alicia asks Frank for an endorsement and reaches for the elder crime angle
Enjoyed the episode? Hit subscribe so you never miss a recap! If you love what we're doing, leave us a rating and review — it really helps the show grow. Want to support The Good Pod directly? Buy us a coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/goodpod — every cup keeps the recaps coming. You can also find us on Instagram and Threads @thegoodpodpod, or send us a message at thegoodpodfeedback@gmail.com. Thanks for listening!
00:00 – Cold open: the missing Milwaukee cheese curds, and what a cheese curd actually is
03:45 – Finn asks for 60 more days, gets a yelly judge instead
07:32 – The case board, Geneva Pine, and the real story behind Cary's administrative leave
17:01 – Proof of other crimes: Diane goes after Geneva on the stand
24:57 – Kalinda, the lab tech, and a riverboat casino story that doesn't hold up
39:11 – Alicia asks Frank for an endorsement and reaches for the elder crime angle
Enjoyed the episode? Hit subscribe so you never miss a recap! If you love what we're doing, leave us a rating and review — it really helps the show grow. Want to support The Good Pod directly? Buy us a coffee at https://buymeacoffee.com/goodpod — every cup keeps the recaps coming. You can also find us on Instagram and Threads @thegoodpodpod, or send us a message at thegoodpodfeedback@gmail.com. Thanks for listening!
Creators and Guests
Host
What is The Good Pod?
Rewatching The Good Wife? Start anywhere. We've recapped every episode in order since the pilot — 166 and counting.
Jason Reed and Marissa Garza work through the entire Robert and Michelle King universe: The Good Wife, Elsbeth, and The Good Fight. One episode at a time, in order, no skipping. The cases, the firm implosions, the Alicia and Diane of it all — plus the details you missed the first time and the ones you only catch on a rewatch.
Alicia Florrick, Diane Lockhart, Kalinda Sharma, Eli Gold, Will Gardner, Elsbeth Tascioni. If you have opinions about any of them, you're in the right place.
New episodes every Monday. Elsbeth recaps every week the show is airing.
Also from us: The Gilded Pod, covering HBO's The Gilded Age — separate feed, same hosts.
Support the show: buymeacoffee.com/goodpod
jason: Welcome to The Good Pod,
where today we're talking The Good
Wife, Season 6, Episode 7, "Message
Discipline." I'm one of your hosts, Jason.
We're here with me, as
always, Marissa Garza.
Marissa, you good?
Marissa: I'm good, Jason.
You good?
jason: I'm okay.
Um, got a little bit of a, got a little
bit of an issue to talk to you about.
Marissa: Oh
jason: Per us', I waited
until we're actually starting
the recording to bring up
Marissa: Of c-- yeah.
Yes
jason: I-- When we were both in Milwaukee,
Marissa: अहां अहां
jason: I, you know, I got a whole
bunch of cheese curds, just like
Marissa: Oh, after you said you
didn't eat any, you got some?
jason: Well, yeah, you know the, I, I
got, I got them and I said, "Marissa,
I need you to grab the cheese curds
and send them, like, get, grab some
U- grab some of the UPS, g- get
them to me." You said you got them.
You got them from my,
like I left at my hotel.
You
Marissa: Yeah.
Uh-huh
jason: never, I never got them back.
W- what, what happened?
I gave you the, I gave you the curds.
I gave you the two kilo curds,
Marissa: basically
jason: then I never got them back
Marissa: gold.
So I returned them to the lab, obviously.
I did.
jason: so you did take them?
Marissa: I did.
I exped- I was expediting the cheese
process to you, and, uh, it's not my fault
that you don't have your cheese curds.
I gave them to the-- I brought them back.
jason: You sure, you sure I'm not gonna
Marissa: I'm sure
jason: of like, uh, cheese dust on
your, on your fingers or something?
Is there, is there cheese dust on curds?
I've never actually seen cheese
curds, to be honest with you.
Marissa: No.
jason: I was in Mil- like,
Marissa: like she's,
jason: here's the thing, right?
Marissa: like she's the-
jason: When, when I was in
Milwaukee and people were talking
to me about cheese curds, I always
just imagined like the Cheetos
Marissa: people eat, you saw people
eat cheese curds in front of you.
jason: see…
Did I?
I didn't see
Marissa: I'm sure if you went, if you
went out to dinner with people or you
went out and they had cheese curds, you s-
jason: one, no one ate a
cheese curd in my presence.
I'm serious.
And the one I think of cheese
curds, I still haven't seen one.
I could look one up,
but I haven't seen one.
And when, when I think of them, I imagine,
what I imagine is a Cheetos, like, puff.
You know the puffs?
And they leave, like,
orange dust on your fingers.
That's what I imagine
cheese curds look like.
Is that not
Marissa: You're wrong.
No, it's like a cheese nugget, and then
sometimes they are fro- they are fried,
so then it's like a fried cheese nugget.
jason: That sounds disgusting.
I'll be honest with you.
Marissa: It is delicious
jason: see.
Cheese curds images.
Marissa: Uh.
jason: Um, oh, ugh.
Yeah, it's like little, ugh,
looks like little balls of cheese.
Cheddar, cheddar cheese curds.
Ew.
That look, that looks disgusting.
I'm sorry.
Marissa: It's delicious
jason: All right, if you say so.
Uh, I do, I, I don't really regret not
trying any when I was in Milwaukee.
I kept being told I need to try some,
uh, but I never got around to it.
Every time I ordered dinner or went
somewhere for lunch, it just never
even popped into my head, and then
like an hour or two later I was
like, "Oh, that's right. I was gonna
get cheese curds. I forgot again."
Marissa: Birds.
jason: Curds!
Um, but yeah.
Okay.
Uh, whatever.
Let's, uh, let's, let's, uh,
let's get started on this episode.
Before we, uh, let's-- Before we
dive too deep, we want to, uh, wanna
remind you there's some free and easy
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any sum of money that you wish.
Uh, with that out of the way for us
though, let's get into this episode where
we're getting more into the nitty-gritty
of, of both big kinda like storylines:
Alicia's campaign and Cary's case.
There wasn't really-- There's
not really room for really
anything else this episode.
We got kinda stuck in
those two, two storylines
Marissa: Yeah.
Yeah, we find out some
more about Carrie's case.
So this episode picks up right where
the last one left off, where Carrie
was basically told, like, well, Joy
is reading her report and there's been
changes to his p- bail restrictions,
and he's basically told, like, "This
is the last time that you do this."
And Finn is, Finn agrees right
at the end of the last episode.
He's like, "Yes, this is
what should happen." Um
jason: and Finn, Finn's kinda like, we
get the perspective of Finn and just,
he's kind of like zoning out a little bit.
He's just like… It's kinda like when
Marissa starts talking about stationery,
starts talking about pens and nibs, and
I'm just like, you just hear the echo.
I'm just like zoning out and just
staring straight ahead like, "Uh-huh.
Yep.
Marissa: Oh, is that how it is?
jason: And then like, you know, s- finally
I snap back into like, "Oh yeah. Oh, this
is a conversation I'm supposed to be,
supposed to be contributing to. That's
right." So that's kinda where Finn is.
Finn, Finn I think who is just kind of
really feeling the weight of everything
that's been going on in his life recently.
I mean, let, the man just got
shot like, you know, pri- how,
how long do you think it's been?
It's been like…
Marissa: three weeks.
jason: You think it's been three weeks?
Marissa: No, it's been
jason: It's probably been like three
months since, uh, the courtroom shooting.
And like all the things that's
been going on with Castro.
He was gonna run for state's attorney
and then didn't, and just like,
Marissa: He's kind of, um,
feeling the weight of being used.
Like he was kind- he was used
by Peter, put him up to run.
He was used by Castro to
kind of do his bidding.
And right now, um, he, he does see
though… But he is motivated by this
larger goal of getting Lamond Bishop.
Like he's like, "Okay, then I
feel like I'm doing some good,
and all of this will be worth it."
So he says, "Hey, Judge, I know we
had a speedy trial agreement, but I'm
gonna need some more time. I'm gonna
need about 60 more days to be able
to find Trey Wagner," who was the CI
who is involved in this whole thing.
And the judge, "I am… 60 days on
top of…" Yes, exactly, on top of 58.
So, um, Diane of course doesn't
wanna hear any of this because she
just wants to get this over with,
so she's objecting up the wazoo.
And I just have to say, the judge in this,
I was like super annoyed at this judge.
He was very yelly and very like… And
I'm like, okay, first of all, first
of all, like these counselors are not,
they are not being insubordinate or
ig- like I feel like he was projecting
part of his horrible life onto them.
I was like, "Why are you acting
jason: I can see why
you're stuck in bail court.
I can see why you're not like, you, you're
not in a bigger appointment 'cause you're
just kinda really, you're really yelly.
You bang the gavel a lot when
it doesn't need to be banged.
Like you are, you're doing, you're the
definition of doing too much, Judge
Marissa: Yeah.
And the judge says, "Well, uh, we did
say a speedy trial, so sorry, Finn,
no extension." So Finn goes back
to his office and Castro, Castro,
Castro, Castro is like the little
weasel that just is like in the
corner and he's like, "Hello, Finn.
What's going on?" He's like,
"Just let me do my job, okay?
Like, I know we didn't get an extension.
Like, just let me do my job, bro."
jason: He's like, "Finn,
Finn, what are you doing?
Are you, are you, did
you get more time, Finn?
Marissa: What's her plan?
jason: need to put Kerry in jail, Finn.
What are you doing?
You have to put K- Kerry in jail.
That's what I need, Finn." And it was,
Finn's just like, "Bro, like, I got it.
Just relax.
Just chill, bro." And he's like,
"Yeah, I don't wanna chill.
You know, you put Kerry in jail."
Marissa: and he, so we get this
montage of sorts, or like this segment
where we see Finn has a board up in
his office that titles Carrie as the
lawyer, which I thought was funny.
But it's basically his like case
board connecting all the dots.
Uh, he then walks through the
halls to remind us and himself
apparently that Carrie was deputy
jason: It's like, "Oh yeah, that's
right. He worked here before."
Marissa: And then right next to
Carrie's picture is Geneva's picture
and so he goes to talk to Geneva
jason: I was like, "Ooh, it's a
Geneva Pine episode. Let's go."
You know, my most favorite episodes
Marissa: Yes.
Yes.
We get some Geneva here.
Uh, she's talking to Finn, basically
saying, like she's doing the best
she can to be mean to Carrie, but
also protect Carrie at the same time.
She says, "Like, Carrie was a good
prosecutor, but, you know, I don't
think he was ready to be deputy." And,
and he left for fraternizing with a
coworker, and Finn's like, "I know
there's more to the story, so why
don't you tell me what's going on?"
And then we hear that Carrie was on
administrative leave for a few weeks,
and she never got the whole story, but
it was definitely connected to Bishop.
And I had to ask myself, which I
couldn't do because my brain is
my brain, uh, "Jason, did we know
about this administrative leave?"
jason: So he went on leave because
he was fraternizing with Dana.
Marissa: Yes, that's
jason: he told Peter, I don't think
it's 'cause at re- let's, flashback.
Uh, Peter found out that someone
was effing in his office.
Marissa: Yes, on the couch
jason: "What's going on in my office?
I need to figure out who effed in
Marissa: I'm the only
one who could do that
jason: Right, so that I can figure out
who to fire for effing in my office.
And so Carey found out who
was effing in his office.
It was, uh, a male and
another male in the office.
And so Peter's like, "Yo, then they
gotta go." And Carey was like, "Ooh,
like that's, that's tricky 'cause I'm
also effing someone in this off- in
this office, and who happens to be my
subordinate, Dana." Uh, because at that
point he had been wrongly promoted to
deputy state's attorney, uh, much to
the chagrin of, of the one Geneva Pine.
But Carey was at the time effing Dana,
who was technically his subordinate.
And so Carey was like, "Ooh, I don't
feel comfortable like firing somebody
because I'm doing the same thing."
So Carey being the up- upright s- up-
upstanding citizen he is, was like,
"I feel like I should also be like
suspended at least for also fraternizing."
So that's why Carey took like
kind of a voluntary suspension.
He like kinda had to like
force Peter to suspend him.
'Cause Peter was like,
"Nah bro, you're good.
I just gotta get rid of the gay Black guy.
You're the straight white guy,
you're good." And Carey's like,
"No, no, I need to at least get
some sort of punishment for this."
And so he was suspended on his kind of his
own volition, which I guess, I guess they
told people it was a leave of absence.
I don't, I don't
Marissa: Administrative
jason: Administrative leave.
Sure.
That, that fits, that fits.
Um, so it's just like, yeah, so but,
but no one ever f- n- really knew why
Marissa: Got it.
Got it.
Thank you.
I was like, I remember him
leaving, but not for drugs.
Um, Finn does go check with the
cop who apparently was involved
in this drug situation, and
this happened three years ago.
He was like: Look, I just didn't
want us to be blamed with, for the
fact that there was missing evidence.
That's why I told what was going on.
And Ca- and, and Finn's
like: Missing evidence?
What are you talking about?
And he's like: Oh, two kilos of ca-
cocaine is what we're talking about here
jason: Yeah, this whole thing was a,
was a brand new, like, fabrication
of like, this, this is a what?
What happened?
Like, so apparently, 'cause I guess
Finn goes around, like, asking about
Kerry and people that were cops that
knew Kerry, and this cop's like,
"Oh yeah, yeah, I gave him some coke
once," and it just, like, disappeared
Marissa: Disappeared.
Yeah.
Yeah, so he's like, "Oh, okay, if it
was evidence, it would've had to go
to the lab, so let's go talk to the
lab." And the lady who works at the
lab, whose name is Liana, um, she's
like, "It's never shown up here.
jason: Yeah, we never got it.
Never got it.
Just, I was expecting it.
And Kerry w- Kerry says he went to go
take it there himself to get things
expedited, 'cause I guess that's a thing.
If the stateser is like, "Well,
I'll just take this cocaine.
I'll f- I'll figure it out." So
everyone's like, "Yeah, sure.
Go ahead, man.
You're good." Um, but yeah, uh,
somewhere along the way in transit
from Kerry taking it, it never
showed up here, says the lab tech
Marissa: Yeah.
Well, and I did not recognize
the lab tech, Jason, but are
we to recognize said lab tech?
jason: Tawnyia Wright is the actress here.
She's definitely one of those
character actresses that's
like, oh, I know this person.
She was in 24, Madam Secretary, True
Blood, a, a lot of different shows.
She's, uh, definitely a
known person, uh, for sure.
If you, if you've been watching
this type of, of TV product, you're
like, "Oh, yeah, that's her."
Uh, so you definitely have
recognized her from some show
Marissa: Copy that.
Yeah.
So she's also saying not only was it
never delivered by the lab, but it was
never signed out of the evidence room.
So that's-- And Finn's like, "Well,
why didn't anybody say anything?" And
she said nobody wanted to point out
issues in the lab, especially 'cause
it had to do with Lamond Bishop.
And this is just like, this is enough
for Finn to be like, "Okay, Carrie
was up to something. He was helping
Bishop with something." So apparently,
Finn has taken the place of Alic- or
of Kalinda at the have a drink at a
bar, with the bar with Alicia, because
Alicia's waiting for Finn at the end
of the day with a whiskey at the bar
jason: Yeah, Diane had like a second there
where she was the drink lady, and now
it's, it's turned to, it's turned to Finn.
Finn now has the, the enviable task
of having a drink with Felicia Fork
Marissa: And he says, "You know, I had a
good day." And she's like, "Yeah, me too.
I was learning to ca- you know, learning
to campaign." Um, and he m- he's
like, "Well, you got Castro worried
'cause he's being a pain in my butt."
Like, he is being super annoying.
Um, and he said, "You know, do you ever
have, like, a day where you have a good
day but you know it's gonna basically,
like, ruin everybody else's day?"
And Alicia's like, "I guess."
So Finn pulls Alicia over into,
like, the stairwell of the bar and
says, "Hey, Carrie's in trouble."
And Alicia's like, "I know."
jason: Yeah, duh
Marissa: like, yeah, obviously, obviously.
And Finn's like, "No, he's, like,
in real trouble, and it's…
Like, I can't tell you anything
about this, but it could hurt you.
It could hurt the campaign.
You really need to start distancing
yourself from Carrie and the
situation." And she's like, "You can't
tell me anything?" And he's like,
"No, but you have to believe me."
jason: She's like, "This is myself.
I'm pretty much already am." Like,
you know, I could carry a attaboy
nod, you know, every now and then, but
other than that, we don't really talk.
Um, it's just
Marissa: still feuding over the
direction of the firm that we never
had a conversation about, but yes
jason: It's like, while y'all are
in this, like, secluded staircase,
is there anything else you wanna do?
Like, do you wanna, like,
make eyes at each other?
'Cause I feel like if, if we're, if
we're gonna get something started
here, it's, it's getting late.
Like, we need to get some… If, if this,
if, uh, Finn-Lisha is gonna be a thing,
like, where, what, what's happening?
'Cause I'm, I'm still waiting for it
Marissa: Fin-lisha.
Fin-lisha?
I guess that's the really
the only way to go.
Yeah
jason: Finleisha.
Yeah.
Alyn?
No, Alyn's not, Alyn's not it.
F- uh, Finleisha's good.
I like Finleisha 'cause it sounds like, it
also sounds like a, like someone, around
the way girl from like, from Baltimore.
Like, "Hey, you, you
heard about Finleisha?
Oh my God, Finleisha, she
was locked up for years, man.
Is Finleisha coming home?
Yeah, girl.
Yeah, man, Finleisha finally coming home.
She got paroled.
Oh, I can't wait till
Finleisha's back around here."
Marissa: Okay.
Okay, we'll go with that.
We'll go with that.
jason: Fit Leisha,
Marissa: yeah.
No, I know, but I do think that that
is starting to-- They're positioning
for Finleisha to happen because
jason: But it's like, bro, like
for those that know what, what the,
the future of Finn is, like we--
are you, is it happening or not?
'Cause I do feel like they got Finn
on the show for that express purpose,
but then at some point they were just
like, "Never mind. Like, he'll just
be a good friend." 'Cause like we've
had several opportunities for this
to happen and it hasn't happened yet.
Um, I, I'm looking like I kinda--
You know, Finn has grown on me.
Listen, he's no, he's no Will
Marissa: Let me tell you, let me tell you.
I know, like I, I at, at the top of
the, the podcast, I know, uh, Jason
mentioned some ways you can support us.
Another way is to support us
on Instagram and Threads by
following us @thegoodpodpod.
And I have been having some
conversations with people on Threads
about how much they thirst after Finn.
They're like, they're just like no
words, just a lot of pictures and a lot
of like eyes and hearts and like all of
the stuff, but they're all of Matthew
Goode from "The Good Wife." Matthew
Goode has done a lot since "The Good
Wife," but they are zeroed in on Finn
jason: He just seems
like such a choir boy.
He just seems like such a nice guy,
and it's just like, Alicia, this is
what you need in your life, girl.
Like, come on.
Get, get you some.
Get you some Finlicia.
Marissa: Mm-hmm.
So she,
she takes this information, goes to
Diane, and is like, "Hey, uh, I don't
know what's gonna happen, but something's
gonna happen. So, like, just, like,
make sure that you have, like, crossed
all your Ts, dotted all your Is, like,
looked at everything," all of this stuff.
Um, Diane's like, "Yeah, of course.
Like, we got it.
No big deal.
We got this." Uh, there's also
this discussion about how now
that they've moved back into the
LG offices, that Florrick, Agos,
and Lockhart have too much space.
Um, and so that's just something
to bookmark because right after
that, Diane and Cary get called into
court, and Finn is there to introduce
a proof of other crimes charge.
And this … Diane is like, "You've got
to be kidding. This is just some sort of
vendetta." And he's like, "No, I'm just
telling you, I have evidence that Cary
was working with Bishop. And, like, I
just wanna be able to use this evidence
that I found that he was moving and
stealing cocaine for Bishop at the trial."
And during this entire time,
and pretty much the rest of this
episode, Cary's, like, beautiful
minding this entire situation.
He's just like, he's like really … His
face is, like, really scrunched
and concentrated, and he's, like,
thinking through this whole situation.
jason: It's like, did I take coke?
I don't remember coke
Marissa: It's like I don't remember that
being part of my life, but apparently
jason: some Diet Coke.
No, that's not what we're talking about.
Cocaine.
Did I take cocaine?
It's like, oh, wait, that cocaine?
Oh, yeah, that cocaine.
Marissa: Like what?
jason: You're like, there's a
lot of, there's a lot of cocaine
when I was at the DA's office.
I-- you gotta really be specific
on which cocaine you talking about.
Marissa: Oh, that one.
jason: cocaines.
Okay, I get it
Marissa: They put Geneva on the stand,
and she is, she testifies that Carrie
insisted on taking Bishop's cases.
Um, and this was around the
time that he became deputy.
While this is going on, this
is Finn questioning Geneva.
While this is happening, Kalinda
shows up in the back, and it causes
Diane to go to Kalinda because Kalinda
cannot go up to the front because
of the 30-foot rule that was just
instituted in terms of Carrie's bail.
Um, and C- Diane just brings up the
fact that like, "Hey, they're trying
to say that Carrie was working with
Bishop, so you gotta get on that." And
she goes back to question Geneva, and
she says, because like she's like try-
she stumbles to s- find her footing, but
she lands on a place where she says, "So
how long were you looking into Bishop?"
And Geneva goes, "Two years." It's
like, "How many charges did you bring
up in those two years?" Geneva says,
"None." And then Diane says, "So is
it possible, is it just possible that
Carrie wanted these cases 'cause he
could actually do something with them?"
jason: Damn!
Roasted.
You're on fire, Geneva.
I love you, Geneva, but that, uh,
you got, you got hit pretty good.
'Cause Geneva's like, "Oh yeah, Kerry
was pretty, he's pretty obsessed with
Bishop's cases. I don't-- I guess, I mean,
you could, you could argue that maybe
he wanted to get on these cases 'cause
he was working for Bishop, I dunno."
And then Diana's like, "Oh yeah?
Yeah?
Well, maybe you were working
for Bishop 'cause you never
brought charges against that man.
So like, uh, what, what
are we talking about here?
Like, you know, you could do
nothing against him, and Kerry was
actually trying to do something.
So what, what are we
talking about, Geneva?
What are we talking about?"
Marissa: I love at the end of
that she's like, "It is possible.
jason: Mm-hmm.
Marissa: And during this entire thing, we
had mentioned that Kalinda had come in,
and Kalinda texts Cary while he's sitting
there doing his mind math, um, texts
him and says, "Do you think I'm breaking
the 30-foot rule?" And he, I don't know
why he does this, but he like literally
turns around and is like, "Oh, hi."
jason: Hey, girl
Marissa: And then they text back and
forth, and it turns out that Cary
misses Kalinda, and Kalinda doesn't
really know what to do with that
jason: No.
I'm just like, "Oh, that's so
sweet," but you know, good for you.
Sorry
Marissa: Yeah.
Mm, that's not how I roll,
and you know that, but okay.
Uh, they put the cop on the stand that
Finn had talked to earlier, and, um,
Finn asks where the c- cocaine was
recovered, and the cop says from a
house that was associated with Bishop.
Uh, Carrie insisted on taking this
cocaine from the house to the lab,
and basically, once the cocaine
disappeared, the case disappeared.
So whoever made the cocaine disappear
had to be working for Bishop, basically.
We get a lot of scenes of Carrie in
his office in this episode from a
high angle, which is from a d- like
a d- from a d- directorial point of
view, it's supposed to show that,
like, this person is vulnerable or
troubled or in some sort of way…
It's very Batman.
Yeah, it's very weird.
But he is there in his office
basically just staring out the window.
jason: And so he really,
really having a pity party.
He's just like, "Well, what's going on?
What happening?" And I like when, you
know, 'cause right after they, they
talk to this, this cop who's like, "Oh
yeah, Kerry, he was, he wanted that
coke bad." And so like the antics are
like, "Now Kerry, Kerry, are you sure
you don't know where this coke went?"
Marissa: Oh yeah, that's right.
And in the back, and he's like, she's
like, "I don't know how to defend
against this." And he's like, "I know."
jason: I just, like, I just
took it to expedite the testing.
I swear." She's like, "Carrie,
Carrie, Carrie, are you sure that
COVID didn't go up your nose?
Carrie, Carrie, what happened
to that COVID, Carrie?
Carrie, are you wor- were you
working for Bishop, Carrie?"
Like, how dare you, Diane?
Marissa: And what's the first rule?
You have to tell me everything, right?
Like, remember from that whole thing.
But yeah, so after that conversation,
he's in his office, he's having his
pity party, he's staring out the window.
He gets a phone call.
It's me.
Where are you?
And it's Kalinda, and she's calling
from the phone in the hallway
because she has to stay 30 feet away.
And he turns around, he's like, "Oh
man, this is so dumb," basically.
This is like, "I can't believe
this." She's like, "Yeah, I know.
But here's the thing, you're gonna have
to tell them that you're protecting Peter
in this situation because I know that
you exposited this because basically
getting Bishop would get Peter the
governorship, and so you gotta tell them."
And he's like, "But Peter did
nothing wrong." Here's the thing,
Peter always did something wrong.
Always assume that Peter
did something wrong.
jason: That is, that is
the motto of this podcast.
Peter is always wrong
Marissa: Peter's always wrong.
Uh, and she says, "You have to tell
them." And he says, "No." And she says,
"I will." And she hangs up the phone.
She starts walking.
Cary goes out of his office
after Kalinda, and Ka- Kalinda
says, "30 feet, Cary. 30 feet."
jason: feet.
She should get a 30-foot, like, extendable
thing, so she's like, pulls it out
like, "Oh, that's 30 feet right there.
You better not go across that line."
Marissa: In the meantime, we'll talk about
how we got to this moment, but Ramona has
been hired by the office of the governor,
um, Ramona being the mother of the intern.
Um, she is here representing the
governor because Diane has served
Peter with a subpoena for, for this
situation that Kalinda had just laid out.
Um, and so we've got Finn, Ramona, and
Diane in court to talk about the subpoena.
Diane is very much like, "This is,
like, really easy. Like, obviously
we have to have the governor testify.
Like, this is what's going on." Ramona,
because she's so new, is very nervous.
She's, like, still trying to find
her, her voice, her s- her posture
in court, which first of all, what
a crappy courtroom to do that in.
You've got all these people
and all of this stuff going on.
Uh, but Ramona does a good job basically
saying that, like, Peter has nothing
to contribute to this conversation.
Uh, the fact that Cary stole drugs is
nothing that Peter has anything… And
also, like, he just, he's the governor.
He, like, doesn't have the time
jason: Yeah.
I mean, we kind of incite
governor privilege here.
Like, I mean, listen, he's busy.
Like, this is ba- this is bail court.
W- w-
we'll listen to
Marissa: like how is this relevant to
the state of Illinois at this moment in
jason: Yeah, and I thought it was a, I
thought it was a good strategy because
it's like, okay, basically they're trying
to say that, you know, Carrie can't say
anything because he was on assignment
for Peter to make sure that this, that
this drug went to the lab on time.
But, but it's not, it's not that.
It's not, it's not about privilege here.
Like, this has nothing to do with
the privilege that, that Peter got.
It's just about whether this man over
here stole drugs, and he was not told
to steal drugs from the governor.
Just take our word for it, so
you don't need to talk to him
Marissa: Yeah, and the judge is
like, "Yeah, that sounds good.
jason: Yeah, sounds like a plan.
Like, oh, you know, okay, great
Marissa: Great.
So Kalinda goes to visit
Liana the lab lady.
This is one time when
alliteration really helps me.
Liana the, the lab later, lady, and she
Kalinda has like a, a printout of this
lady's account, bank account, and is
like, "You've got $30,000 on here and I
wanna know where the hell it came from."
And
jason: We still not at a time where we
can have things on our phone, be like,
"See? On our, on my phone, right? We
still killing trees, printing stuff out."
Marissa: Like, "So who paid, who
paid you this?" She's like, "I won
it at the riverboat." It's like,
"No, no you didn't." And it's just
jason: and, and Melinda goes, "Great,
which one?" And she couldn't even
c- how are you gonna say, how you
go- how are you gonna come up with a
riverboat casino and not know the name
of a
Marissa: here's the thing.
There's only one in the area.
It's in Elgin.
jason: You know the name of it?
Marissa: yeah, it's the Elgin
Grand Victoria Riverboat Casino
jason: Oh,
Marissa: I, I have gone to-- I have,
and I did win $17, so thank you so much.
jason: her life away.
Oh, damn.
Marissa: in slots.
jason: roller.
High roller Marissa out here.
High roller Garza.
Marissa: And then I was like, "Bye."
jason: But she's like, how are you
gonna like… I feel like if I came up
with something like a Vergil Casino,
I already have the name of the Vergil
Casino in my mind, 'cause otherwise why
am I gonna come up with a Vergil Casino?
Like-
Marissa: unless it was a matter of they
couldn't name the actual casino because
there's on- like, you know what I mean?
But they could've made up a name.
jason: could have, they could have
done any other thousands of things
of how she got this money, but
like, "Riverboat casino." She's
like, "All right, which one?" He's
like, "Damn, you got me." Right?
I don't know the name of one
Marissa: Well, and then she's, she's like,
"Well, it, it's like the first time I did
anything like this, it was my cousin and
he said this and whatever," blah, blah.
And it's like… And then
she's like, "And I don't know
where he is." It's like, "Who?
Who?
You don't know who where who is?" And
she goes, "Trey Wagner." Dun, dun, dun.
jason: come on.
Like the, the level of coincidence
Marissa: I know.
jason: that this has to be.
Marissa: It was like, "Silver platter,
jason: Yeah.
It's like everything you could
ever want of Clinda is right here,
'cause this is all connected.
Everything is connected here.
It's like, damn, really?
That was l- really
convenient for the story
Marissa: It's just like, "I
don't keep in touch with him."
And Columbo's like, "Okay, cool.
I'm gonna go break into your car, and
then I'm gonna take your GPS information,
and I'm gonna find out that you've been
going to Gary, Indiana quite often.
And then I'm gonna go
to G- Gary, Indiana."
jason: Yeah.
I did take note that we
are in November of 2014.
Like, this is like, I, I
always love to be like, you
Marissa: Yeah, yeah, yeah
jason: we are.
Uh, so I mean, Christmas,
like Thanksgiving's coming
up, Christmas is coming up.
A lot of things are coming
up, uh, in, in the "Good
Marissa: that have to do with…
Oh, yeah, in the good way.
Yeah.
I was like, what are
we doing with that now?
I was like, is it an election year?
No, it's not an ele- it's a midterm.
It's a midterm though.
Um, yeah, so Colinda goes to
Gary and Dana and finds Trey.
Trey opens the door and
he's like, "Oh, man.
jason: This chick again.
Marissa: Like,
jason: and also
Marissa: you, it's trouble."
jason: if you are Trey the informant on
the run for your life, aren't you checking
the peephole before you open the door?
Marissa: Well, and also maybe
going further than Gary, Indiana.
Like Gary, Indiana's like next
jason: Yeah.
Like, I- bro, you're not even trying
to save your own life at this point
Marissa: I'm like, okay.
So, uh, Kalinda has a talk with
Trey that we don't see, but
then we hear Kalinda call Finn.
And she is basically … Like, first
of all, I don't know how Finn doesn't
know it's Kalinda because she's
acting as like it's an anonymous call,
jason: Finn,
Marissa: like, "Uh-oh."
jason: how many people, Finn, do you
know of that has this like wonderfully
sexy, sultry voice of Glinda Sharma?
You're like, "Who is this?"
Like, bruh, I know you've had to
have met Glinda at some point.
Like it, it's, it-- I don't think
we've ever seen them in the same
space mostly because, uh, Finn is
associated with Alicia, and Glinda's
not allowed to be in the same, uh…
She basically has that same 30-foot
radius that, uh, that she has with
Kerry with, uh, Julianna Margulies.
Um, so it's like, I, I get it, but
you have had to have in your travels
come up against Glinda Sharma at some
point and know who this person is.
Marissa: Especially because she's, like,
around the state's attorney's office.
Al- I mean, I guess he was
in New York or whatever.
But anyway, he is dumbfounded that it
is someone on the phone, an anonymous
source basically saying, "Hey, Troy
Wagner told me he will testify against
Bishop." And he's like, "Why not Kerry?"
He's like, "Nope, Bishop. He feels guilty
about framing Kerry." "Well, how'd he
do that?" "Uh, well, he recorded only
what he wanted the cops to hear, and
he will do all of this for immunity.
You wanna talk to Trey?" And Trey's
there, like, praying over the Bible
with his aunt or his cousin or somebody
jason: he found, he found
religion, I guess, at the time
that Glenda warned him and to now
Marissa: Yeah.
She has that effect on people.
Uh, and so they put Trey on the phone with
Finn, and Finn is like, "Oh, hey, gotta
go tell the boss." So we go into Castor's
office, and Castor's just like, "Well, I
thought, I thought he was gonna testify
against Kerry, not against Bishop."
Finn's like, "Yeah, but it's Bishop, okay?
Like, this guy can connect us to
a bunch of other stuff, and we can
kind of like take down Bishop."
jason: It's like, "Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Great, great, great, great,
great, great, great, great.
Uh, what about Karrion though?
Like
Marissa: But
jason: Karrion, right?
Marissa: stick to the strategy with
jason: Karrion.
Karrion, right?" Like, "Well, no, we, we,
we got the actual big guy that we want.
Like, we're g- we got a
straight line to the big guy.
We don't have to go through the
different people to get to this.
This is what, this is what you want."
It's like, it's like, "Yeah, yeah.
I, I do want that.
Like, I, I definitely
want to take Bishop down.
That's definitely what I'm looking for,
but also looking to take down Karrion.
Marissa: Well, yeah.
Well, he doesn't, he doesn't say that
out loud, but Finn is like, "Jimmy,
jason: Jimmy.
Jimbo
Marissa: going on?
What's going on here?
What's about… Is this about the
campaign?" And he's like, "How dare
you?" He's like, "You care?" Finn
says this to, to Castro, "You care
about Alicia, but not Bishop?" And
Castro says, "Get out of my office."
And he leaves.
jason: How dare you clock
my tea so efficiently?
Marissa: and he… It's
not like he just leaves.
Like, he leaves.
Like, he quits.
This man quits the state's attorney's
office and tells Alicia at the
bar, because apparently, again, the
bar, um, and he's like, "I can't
tell you why I quit, but I for sure
quit." And she's like, "Well, what
are you gonna do, uh, with this?"
Well, first of all, she's like, he
says, "I can't tell you." And she
says, "I think you will after a few
more drinks." And I was like, "Oh man,
here it comes." And then he's like,
"I'm gonna open my own practice." And
she goes, "Do you need office space?
I got some of that for you."
jason: How sweet
Marissa: So that is where we are.
Things are not looking
good for Carrie, uh, in…
Well, they are looking good for
Carrie in, right now 'cause we have
Trey, but it's been a bumpy road.
jason: well do
Marissa: It's been a bumpy road.
No, we're not gonna close it yet.
Right now, right now it's looking okay.
Uh, when we go to the campaign,
let's talk about the campaign.
So Peter is being interviewed by this
guy named Frank, but I know him, you
know him as DHP, David Hyde Pierce
jason: David Hyde Pierce.
Now, I think most, like 99% of us will
know David Hyde Pierce from Frasier as
Marissa: And also Bug's Life
jason: There you go.
That's what the other
1% might know them from.
'Cause I was like, "What else have
I seen David Hyde Pierce in?" Uh,
'cause I don't know anything besides
Frasier, and now you're telling me
A Bug's Life, which, uh, uh, fine.
Like, who was he in, who
was he in Bug's Life?
Was he the main guy in
Marissa: was mystic
jason: Oh,
Marissa: He was the stick bug thing.
And then, um, he currently I
think is doing something on
Broadway where he's singing.
jason: Hmm.
I mean, if he… Listen, he's on
"The Good Wife." I feel like at
some point he's done Broadway.
Marissa: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
jason: That's like a, that's like a
quasi requirement to have any, like, sort
of, you know, active part on "The Good
Wife," except for Julianna Margulies.
Julianna Margulies never done Broadway?
I don't know.
Marissa: I don't know if she would
be welcome there, to be quite
jason: Ooh.
Mm-mm.
Marissa: I'm just saying.
I'm just saying.
Okay.
Yes.
So also, I was just checking where we
are in the television timeline of things.
Frasier ended in 2004, and I
don't really think that David
Hyde Pierce did much except for
like little things here and there.
Um, so you said this is 2014, so this
is 10 years after the end of Frasier.
He's shown up, he's got a beard.
Love to see David Hyde Pierce.
Love him so much.
Um, but Peter and his character Frank, um,
are having a conversation about Ferguson.
Again, another thing to kind of
timestamp this in, into our minds
and the rise of the warrior cop.
And while all of this is going on, Eli
looks around and he sees that there's
this guy that shouldn't really be here.
This, this like pollster
guy, his name is Warren Plep.
What a name, Warren Plep
jason: worm flap
Marissa: Again, this kind of just
gets like Eli's ears turned up.
He's like, "Something is up. Like
why, why would this man be here?"
jason: And at the same time, Frick
is going kind of hard on Eli in the
interview of like, you know, wanting
him to like kind of be accountable
for the violence in Chicago.
Like, "What are you, what are you
gonna do about it? What, what, what,
what's your, what's your job here?"
Marissa: Yeah, and Peter was like, "I
was not prepared for this. Like, this,
this is not good. This is not good."
It's better.
So much better.
jason: Yeah.
He, and Eli, who apparently needed
the last episode off to fix his hair,
'cause I think they finally got it.
I think they finally got it back to,
to its glory of the right, right amount
of slick back, right amount of silver.
I think we finally got it dialed back in
Marissa: Yes.
Yes.
So after not being prepared for these
things, I don't know why he needs a new
personal attorney for this particular
situation, but he says to Eli, "I need
a new personal attorney to keep me up
to date on these issues." And I was like
jason: and of course because I'm
me, I need a hot lady to do the job.
Because I always need
a hot lady around me.
Marissa: Well, and I don't like this
thing because he, he says to Eli,
"Yo, I want, like, Ramona on this
list." And Eli's like: Well, when
was the last time she practiced law?
And he's like, "What about Alicia?
Like, Alicia didn't practice law
for a long time." Like, he's using
like Alicia's, like, life to get
what he wants all of the time.
Again, Peter d- always
does something wrong.
jason: Peter always wrong
Marissa: And this… Eli's
like: Okay, I'll go do this.
And he goes to tell… What's the name
of her, of Alicia's campaign manager?
I forgot.
Elfman.
jason: Elfman
Marissa: Yeah, that's right.
So he goes to tell Elfman, "Uh, we
got a problem. We got a problem."
And, uh, from this point forward,
these two are like fricking frick.
Like, they are together all of the time.
Uh, so they go tell Alicia, "Hey, I think
there's going to be another candidate
joining the race." And she's like, "What?
Uh, we're past the deadline.
How could this happen?" Apparently,
you can run by petition if
you get 50,000 signatures.
Um, and they're worried because Frank is
a big brand in Chicago apparently, um, and
he has been building his case through his
interviews, much like the interview that
he had with Peter last night, enforcing
about law enforcement, things like this.
"So here's, here's our,
here's our plan, Alicia.
We want you to ask for his
endorsement." And she's like,
"What?" "Well, here's the thing.
If he doesn't give you the
endorsement, we know he's running.
If he does give you the endorsement,
we know he's not running." And she's
like, "Okay, what's on the line?" And
they're like, "If he runs, you lose."
So Ramona is studying.
I don't know what she was studying.
Like a very basic diagram of government
'cause it had like the governor at the
top and like all of this other stuff.
So she's studying all of this.
Alicia comes in, um, and she's like, "Oh
my God, Ramona, what are you doing here?"
She's like, "I'm, uh, I'm interviewing for
the legal position they have open here."
She's like, "Oh, we could
use someone like you.
Where are you coming from?
Like what, what, um, firm are you
coming from?" And she's like, "What?
I'm home, like from home.
It's my first interview in 12 years.
I'm modeling my career after yours."
jason: Oh, yet another recycled storyline
Marissa: Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and but in this conversation, Ramona,
like Alicia doesn't remember, but Ramona
reminds Alicia that Ramona is divorced.
So
jason: You see a little bit
of a glimmer in Alicia's mind
of like, "Oh, you don't say.
You're getting divorced, now you're
Marissa: I'm clocking that.
jason: now you're coming
to work for Peter.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm gonna, just gonna
leave that in the back of my head
there just for later, later use."
Marissa: Yeah.
Eli and Elfman, uh, go tell,
um, Alicia that, "Okay, Frank's
gonna meet with you on Tuesday.
We got a plan.
We're gonna talk about your stance on
elder crime because his mom was attacked
in a assisted living home." And Alicia's
very uncomfortable, and Eli has to remind
her, like, "You're practicing politics.
M- remember this, here's this, here's
this." And she's like, "I don't
need all this to go do this job.
jason: Like I, I swear, Alicia, Alicia
just thinks that she should just come
out here and be like, "Hey guys, I
really think you should vote for me
Marissa: Yes, that's what she
jason: 'cause like I'm really cool.
Like I'm great, I'm awesome, and you
don't need to know any other reasons why.
I'm just me.
I'm Alicia Florick, that's
why you should vote for me.
Bye.
Thanks."
Marissa: it's, it's like she thinks
she's running for class president in the
third grade, but she's really running,
like, like she doesn't, like, like they
have prepared all of the stuff, like
talk about your gr- grassroots support.
This man is really big
into Cold War history.
It's, that's a rough find.
Um, but he's like, "Here's some quotes,
here's some stuff, here," you know, like,
and she's like, "Nah, I don't need it.
It's
jason: it's just really wild that
Alicia Florek, who has been around
politics for decades now, uh, is used
to seeing the machine at work, is so
surprised about all the things that
go into running for an elected office.
She's like, "What?
I gotta do
Marissa: I think it's because she
thinks she could change it, just like
she thought she could change Peter.
She's like, "I could change
this man." She's like, "I
could change the system." But
jason: She's always found that she can't.
Marissa: Yeah, exactly.
jason: you can't fight City Hall,
or in this case, I don't know,
government officials or elections.
Marissa: The state of Illinois.
Uh, Alicia goes to meet with Frank.
Frank has, like, so many gift baskets,
so many cookies, all of this stuff.
He's got a lot of fans.
He's got a lot of fans.
And she's like, "Thank you so much
for meeting with me." He goes, "I
think it's a great idea." She's like,
"What's a great idea?" He's like,
"My producer told me you wanted to
pitch yourself for an interview."
jason: Now she's like, "Oh, did they?"
Marissa: Oh.
So they have this conversation and
she's like, "I am ru- I am running
for state's attorney and I'm hoping to
encourage you to endorse me. And I just
wanna let you know who I am. I'm, like,
really big on gun crime, especially,
like, crime against elder people."
jason: Oh boy.
And this is, this is so awkward because
she's like, "Hey, um, guns, they're bad.
Guns are real bad, and it's real
bad when people use guns to do bad
Marissa: Bad things.
jason: And then Frank just kind
of looks at her like, "Okay.
Like, great." And she's like, "Okay.
All right.
Pull out the big guns then.
Pull out the big guns."
She's like, "Also, also, I don't know if
you heard about this, I don't know if you
heard about this, bad stuff happens to
old people, and I don't like that at all."
It's like, how alarmingly unsubtle of you.
Like
Marissa: Well, and it's like
even worse because Frank says,
"Uh, that story's not true.
Like, the press got that wrong.
It wasn't my mom, it was a
neighbor." And she's like, "Well,
I still feel bad for that lady."
jason: I still, I still don't like when
old people get hurt, just so you know
Marissa: Oh, she's sent home with
cookies and an interview spot
basically, and she's like, "I'm so bad.
I'm so bad at this.
I'm bad at asking for things."
And Eli's like, "The very nature
of politics is asking for things.
You have to get over your feeling
that you're above all of this."
jason: It's just, it, it's, it's so
funny for Eli to kind of come to this
realization of like, wow, there's a lot
more at work here than I even thought.
'Cause I-- Eli, Eli I think just
thought, like, this would be such
a great just easy slide in victory.
The wife of the governor, who,
who could go against that?
And it's like this, this, oh,
there's so much more work that
I have to put into Alicia.
Like, I have to remind her
of how everything works
Marissa: Meanwhile, Ramona is hired,
um, for the situation for Peter, and on
his- on her first day, um, is when she
gets the subpoena for the Carrie thing.
We have the conversation.
Eli is, like, trying to
steamroll her, like, so hard
jason: this is what happens
all the time, right?
Like, uh, again, like I'm, I'm
sorry I keep saying it, but it's
just like when Marilyn came on
board and Eli and Peter are having these
conversations right over Ramona and
like not letting Ramona get a word in.
Like, why is she even here if
you're not gonna let her do her job?
Like if Eli and Peter have this like,
"This is what we have to do, this is
what we're gonna da, da, da, da, da,"
Ramona's like, "Bruh, why am I here?
Like I need to give my input too."
Marissa: trying to get a word in.
Well, the time, she's like, "I really
don't…" 'Cause Eli's like, "We should
file a motion based on privilege.
Like, you're not even allowed to
tell it." And she's like, "That's
just gonna make you look like
you're covering something up.
There's a different way to go about
this," which is relevance, which
is what we talked about before.
Um, and at the end, of course, Peter's
like, "No, I wanna hear what you
have to say, Ramona. Like, tell me
what's going on." 'Cause Eli's trying
to, like, rush her out of the room.
And at the end of it, he's like,
"Not bad, huh?" And Eli goes, "We'll
see." Same old, same old there.
So Alicia is prepping for
the interview with Elfman.
Yeah?
Yeah.
Um, and it's really bad.
Like, I don't know.
It, it was just really, really awkward.
It's, first of all, a lot
of information to take in.
He's really kind of not really
handholding her through it.
Basically, you know, she wants to answer
questions like she would answer in court,
and he is like, "Yo, this is the media.
You can never accept the
premise of the question.
You always have to pivot back to your
message." And she's like, "What's
my, what's my message?" She's like
jason: A g- g- good question, Lisa.
Good question
Marissa: Oh.
The message is that Castro is ruining
the state's attorney's office.
Okay, got it, got it, got it.
She-- He asks her about Bishop, and
she does say something good here.
She says, "I've seen both sides of the
courtroom, so I know h- when the s-
how the system is getting used." And
then he asks about Zach's abortion,
and she gets all worked up about that.
"How dare you?" And he's like: Listen,
you can't personalize this stuff.
You're gonna be asked about it.
And he gives her a lot of information
about how to hold herself, what
to do with her arms, how to sit.
And then the last question is, "Have
you heard your husband is sleeping
with an intern in the office?"
jason: Now, yeah, 'cause this is
her first time hearing about this,
'cause we didn't talk about this
at the, um, what'd they call it?
The vetting?
Was it the vetting?
Was the… Oh, the op, the
opposition vetting, whatever.
Um, oppo
Marissa: Opposition
jason: 'cause Pe- Peter's telling P-
like, "Listen, don't say anything about
Lauren. Do not, do not bring that up."
And so this is Alicia's
first time hearing it.
She's like, "Uh, so say what now?
Uh,
Marissa: The what?
The what?
Uh, so she goes to the interview.
She's very, like, nervous.
She remembers to cross her legs at the
ankles because apparently it makes you
sit up straighter, all of this stuff.
And the first-- She's very prepared for,
like, hardball questions here, and DHP's
first, uh, question is, "Where do you
find the time?" And she's like, "F- for
what?" She's like, "For everything." He's
like, "Oh, family first." She's like,
"Great, let's start with the family."
She's like, "No, I'm just saying that
I triage like many working parents do.
Like, that's where I am." Uh, but
he's serving her all these softball
questions about, like, public service,
how he w- uh, how she raises the kids.
She's, like, super, super nervous, and
it, it gets to a point where he says,
"So is this your whole premise here?
Like, you wanna replace the machismo
that's in the state's attorney's
office with someone who's spent the
majority of her life raising kids?"
And she's like, "I resent the fact that
you see me as someone who spent the
majority of her life raising kids."
And you can see Eli and Elfman in
the back going, "What are you doing?
Why are you saying this?
Because you're alienating a large
population of people who would
actually be voting for you." Oh,
so at the end of this, they're
like, "Frank is totally running."
jason: Oh yeah, for sure.
He's trying to sandbag Alicia.
Um, he mentioned, they mentioned
he's try- trying to Katie Couric her.
Do you know what that was a reference to?
Marissa: Katie Couric's, uh, style of
interviewing was very much like that, of
like the, like some softball questions
in there and then like, "So are you
actually… So are you doing this?"
jason: Yeah.
I, w- when I, you know, I've, I've
kind of always known that I wouldn't
really rock with Felicia Florrick.
Like me and her probably wouldn't
like hang out and be friends.
Uh, but nothing really solidified that
fact for me until, you know, 'cause
Frank asks her, "So do you talk about
like polit- politics over like dinner or
when you're watching like reality TV?"
And Felicia Florrick goes,
"I don't watch reality TV." I
went, "Oh, oh, yep, I can't.
Marissa: She's so above it, Jason.
She's so above it
jason: can't be friends with you, Felicia.
Sorry.
Not, not a thing.
Not a thing.
If you're not watching 'Married at
First Sight,' we can't be friends."
This is why I made Marissa watch
"Married at First Sight" this season.
Uh, I gave her the ultimatum
of, "Listen, it's you either
watch the show or it's done."
And Marissa made the right choice
to watch "Married at First Sight."
Marissa: I did.
I did do that.
It was pretty good.
Uh, but I do need to go brush up on my
lore, so I still got some work to do.
But basically, they're like, "Okay,
Frank is running. Uh, this is the
situation. Maybe we could dirty his
reputation up a bit because he's got
such a big brand." So they found a paper.
Okay, this stuff is, like, so much
louder in 2026 than it was in 2014.
Uh, but they found a paper that
Frank wrote in college where he
said that the settlements in the
West Bank by Israel are against the
Geneva Co- Conventions, something
I will say personally I agree with.
Uh, and Eli is just like, "This is great.
jason: Mm. Got him.
Got his ass
Marissa: We're gonna alienate him with
the Jews and the evangelical Christians
who are Zionists in this conversation."
Um, and Eli's just like, "Look,
we're not gonna get involved in this.
We don't even know if this is what
he still believes in the, in the
situation." He's like, "I've been
learning a lot about you, but you have
to learn a little bit from me." And
jason: There's like, "Okay, sure."
Marissa: "Okay, but what else
can we do with this? Okay,
there might be another way."
Next thing we hear is Castro,
"I have always been pro-Israel."
jason: Oh, what a weasel
Marissa: I condemn anyone
with this youthful fascination
in the support of Palestine.
And I thought that was a very
interesting choice of words.
Just, just pointing that out.
Uh, so while this is happening, Diane
comes in and she's like, "Did you
see the news?" And Alicia's like,
"Yeah, like I'm watching it right now.
Like I'm watching this news."
jason: Bruh, bruh.
It's not always about you, Alicia.
That's, Alicia, that's something
you've always needed to learn.
It's not always about you.
Like, why do you th- why do you
think Diane's gonna come in here
like, "Oh my God, Alicia, did you
see the news concerning you? 'Cause
it's all about you." And she's like,
"Yeah, I gotta, I gotta
figure out who did this.
Was it Elfman or Eli?" And Diane's
like, "What are you talking about, bruh?
Look, there's a whole other thing going
on right here, Alicia, that I know you
don't know about 'cause you have, like,
isolated yourself into your thing.
But there's more stuff going
on right here than just you."
Marissa: Yeah.
She says Trey Wagner was killed in a
car accident along with his cousin.
jason: Bro.
Ugh.
I, like, bro
Marissa: And then of course he was, right?
Like, I'm like, "Ugh," but then of course.
Like, of course this was gonna
be the play from Bish- Bishop.
Like
jason: how many Black people need
to die to save this one white man?
Is my question.
This is now three Black people that
have died in the service of Kariakos
Marissa: But he's very concerned about it.
He's very, he's, he's very,
jason: Go to jail, Kerry.
Save the Black people.
End it
Marissa: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, that's a good point.
That's a good point.
Um, Alicia is just like, "Oh my God."
He s- sees Carrie walking out and
runs up to the window 'cause she's in
Will's office now, r- runs up to the
window wall and is like, "Good luck."
jason: Oh, poor Carrie.
Oh, good luck.
I'm not gonna help, but good luck.
Good luck with
Marissa: Yeah.
Like I have to stay behind
this wall because I'm running
for state's attorney's office.
jason: Yeah.
Sorry, can't help you.
But, uh, I'll give you my, my,
uh, you know, moral support
Marissa: Yeah.
It's like, "Great, thanks." She gets a
phone call saying that Frank is there to
visit her, and she's like, "Okay, cool.
Send him back." I did not
know that she had glasses.
This woman is so, like,
nervous about Frank coming.
She's like, "I have to look important or
whatever," and she puts on these glasses.
jason: Where'd you get
those glasses, Alicia?
At a joke shop?
At a joke shop?
Where'd you get those glasses from?
'Cause those aren't real.
Never seen you wear
glasses before, Alicia.
Come on.
These are my smart glasses to
make it look like I'm smart
Marissa: Well, Frank walks in and he's
like, "Well, man, I've had quite the
morning." And she's like, "Oh, really?
Why don't you tell me what it's like?"
"I've been losing friends about this
thought project I had when I was younger."
jason: Thought projects.
I'm gonna use
Marissa: was-- Yeah, I
jason: my
Marissa: was like,
jason: I'm gonna need to use that
Marissa: This podcast was just a thought
jason: It was a thought project
Marissa: And he's like, "I don't
like, like losing friends."
And Alicia's like, "Yeah, I don't either."
And so, like he's setting this up, right?
Like he's doing all this stuff and he's
like, "You know, I know you asked me for
your endorsement." And she's like, "Yes,
I would love to be endorsed by you." He's
like, "Here's the thing, I hate campaigns.
I hate the way they use people.
I hate the way they talk to people,"
all of this stuff, "Which is why
I am running for state's attorney,
because the only way to change the
system is to have skin in the game."
jason: Alicia's like, "Uh, uh, no.
You can't out saint me, okay?
'Cause that's what I said.
I
wanna change the system by getting in.
You can't say that.
I already claimed that." It's
like, "No, I'm claiming it first."
She's like, "You can't do that."
Marissa: And at this point
she's, like, so over it.
She's like, "You are such a hypocrite."
And Frank is like, "No, I didn't decide
I was gonna run till this morning,
till I found out that it was your
guys who gave Castro my paper and,
like, all my thought experiment or my
thought project," like, all this stuff.
And she's, like, on the phone with Eli
like, "Oh my God, Frank is here already.
He's running.
Like, this, this is happening."
jason: was in some big nuh-uh energy.
He's like, "Nuh-uh.
I just decided now.
Nuh-uh." Like, "No." She's like, "You
know you already, you already had this
planned." He's like, "Nuh-uh, I didn't.
I did it this morning, I swear."
She's like, "Nope, you bullshit."
He's like, "No, I swear I'm not.
Nuh-uh."
Marissa: Yes.
So that is where we are.
Carrie went from okay to not okay, uh, in
jason: Carrie Jacibi just taking
those Ls left and right this season
Marissa: Yeah, he's definitely,
yeah, in not a good place.
Um, Finn is moving in downstairs
and Alicia… Oh yeah, upstairs.
No, downstairs
jason: upstairs, they need to
lease out the floor above them
Marissa: Oh, I thought they
were doing the one downstairs.
Anyway, they will
jason: Abbey lingo or something?
Marissa: Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Um, and then we've got the,
Frank is running, so that's where
we are at the end of this one.
Next one should see some
developments in those areas, I think
jason: We should, we shall.
Uh, yeah, that's the,
that's, that's the episode.
Marissa…
Marissa: welcome back to the podcast
jason: Listen, I was, I was
like Finn in that moment.
I'm just like, "Ruh-ruh, ruh-ruh,
ruh-ruh, ruh-ruh, ruh-ruh, ruh-ruh."
Like, "Oh yeah, it's my turn." Um,
Marissa, you wanna tell the good folks
out there where they can find you and what
you're up to on the interwebs nowadays?
Marissa: Sure.
Uh, you can find me at itsmemerissag.com
where I have links to all of the projects
that I'm doing, including these podcasts.
Um, I am thinking of starting a thought
project of my own, um, which is kind
of TV related around, like, creating a
magazine/podcast/ like, I don't know.
I don't know what I'm doing, but if you
wanna see what I'm doing, that's the
place to go kind of see what's up with me.
Uh, Jason, what's up with you?
jason: I, you know, just
still talking about mess.
The, the new mess is over, but we're
going diving back into the old mess.
Me and Asia Welch are back on our Patreon,
the Perfect Match Patreon, talking about
Season 12 of Married at First Sight.
We are continuing our rewatch
that we paused to deal with Season
20 of Married at First Sight,
so we're back in those streets.
So if that is something that floats
your boat, you like mess, you like
marriage mess, you like dating mess,
you just like messy people, that's
where you go, uh, to check me and Asia
Welch talk about Married at First Sight.
Um, yeah, that's where
I-- you can find me.
That's where you can find Marissa
G. Until next time, stay good.