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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
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I'm Travis Bader.
And this is the Silvercore Podcast.
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all right.
I'm sitting down with longtime friend,
Jason, bud, and returning podcast guest.
This is what fourth time number
four, number four, number four.
Have we had somebody come
on four times before?
I know, uh, Paul Ballard's
been on a few times.
Okay.
But I think, um, number four,
we'll have to check the, uh, we'll
have to check the archives to see
where we're at here, but, um, I
never thought when you first.
Called me up to do the first
one and I was pretty hesitant.
And you could tell them that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Never thought I'd be back
for number four dropped.
You know, I always figured you would be.
I mean, you've got enough
stories and you course you do.
Yeah, I did all this stuff.
Well, you're still trying to
get me to write my memoirs.
Yeah.
I think you should.
I really think you should.
Yeah.
Well we're
baby steps, right?
Yeah.
Big plans maybe in October, but we.
That'll come out later, I guess.
Yeah.
That'll be a fun announcement.
Yeah.
Well, right now, if people are watching
this on YouTube or if, even if you're
listening through your normal podcast
provider and the audio sounds a little
bit different, hopefully it doesn't, but
I'm using a travel kit at the moment.
The studio is going under some
renovations, we're doing some upgrades.
So, uh, let us know, uh, in the
comments, what it sounds like, what
it looks like, and if we're going in
the right direction here, uh, I'm sure
we'll find out because, uh, people
are pretty vocal about that anyways.
Uh, um, we were talking
about wilderness survival.
Yeah.
And it was something that, uh, was
sort of on the back burner for a while.
Cuz you've had a fair bit of time
in the mountains and in the woods.
And actually since the last podcast we
did with Dean, you have, um, you've been
spending a fair bit of time outside.
Why, why don't you give a little
bit of an update of what, uh, what
you've been up to before we start
talking about wilderness survival?
Yeah.
Um, I think we mentioned, um, I
was going on my assistant Alpine
exam in the cascades 10 days.
Right.
Um, Went down and did some pre training.
And then I was successful on my
assistant Alpine exam for the
American mountain guide association.
Right.
So, um, I just need to complete the
full rock exam and the full Alpine exam.
And that's pretty much done the if
MGA system, um, which is international
Federation, Mount guides association.
That's kind of what I set my
sights on a few years back.
Um, and I was recommended to come back,
do the full Alpine exam next year.
Mm-hmm and they recommended I
go, I didn't bother applying for
the full rock exam this year in
October of November of fed rock.
Right.
The examiners told me, encouraged
me just go on the wait list.
Yeah.
So I've done that.
Gotta start pulling some harder grades.
Mm-hmm okay.
But, uh, turning up for that.
And then, uh, usually there's a very good
chance that probably gonna get on, uh,
last minute opening in terms of like one
to two to three days, notice to move and
then flight down to red rock Vegas, rent
a car, and five days on the rock exam.
So exciting.
That's kind of that this winter I'm
looking forward to the winter because
ski guide exam was done last year,
so it's just cruising, having fun.
Nice.
Um, but Steph's, uh, training for her full
exam, probably the next one to two years.
So we still gotta do
little objective base.
Okay.
Trip.
So yeah, that's kind of what we
achieved, not moving forward.
So it's been pretty slow.
You haven't been doing
much is what you're saying.
well, we did
came off the exam room, took two weeks
holidays and went back to the cascades.
Did all cause the problem with
this is I say the problem is that.
You just don't apply for the next exam.
You have to build a resume.
So we had to do so many grade, um, Alpine
commitment, grade level, five climbs, and
then so many glacier route and things.
So we basically took two weeks holidays
and just completed as much as we could.
And then most of my time off from
work, um, I'd been out either
guiding or, um, Doing our trips.
So we're building a resume.
So beauty pretty much
done for the full Alpine.
My resume's complete.
So, so
needless to say, you've had a little
bit of experience in the back country.
You've had experience in the Bush, both at
the personal level and professional level.
And, uh, it's that experience that
I'm hoping we can kind of share
some of the, uh, uh, mishaps.
I know I've, I've had a few mishaps
in the Bush that, uh, I figured I
could share with the audience and,
uh, what I've learned from it.
And, um, also, um, uh, see from what
you've been through, different things
that have, uh, been, uh, perhaps shareable
learning experiences, as opposed to
those UNS shareable learning experiences.
yeah, I think, um, it really comes
down to, for me, um, back in, in,
in the British army, we have a term,
um, for, uh, what was the term,
um, Not kit hoarder, kit, monk.
No, you're junkie.
sort of like that they
have the term for it.
Um, it'll come to me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But, and we talked about it, I think
on the first podcast where, you know,
pretty much in the British army, the
only thing I wore issued were my socks.
Right, right, right.
Um, everything else
you could buy in altar.
And I was always buying the lightest gear
mm-hmm um, or the most efficient gear or
anything I could to make my life easier.
Mm-hmm cause weight is an issue
mm-hmm and it that's some of the
lessons I've learned that if I
can be lighter, light is right.
Mm.
You also have that term
pack light freeze night.
I've been there.
So it's finding that balance and then
carrying that into the outdoor community.
Um, Like the term we often use is a
planned B, a B is where you're gonna
camp for the night and an unplanned B.
Right.
And a lot of people just default
to saying, well, always pack if
you're gonna spend the night.
And I don't necessarily agree with that.
Mm-hmm because, um, if you have
lighter equipment, you can move faster.
Mm-hmm you can limit your
exposure to the hazards.
Might be the elements might be overhead.
Hazard might be avalanches.
And there's certain times of
the day, maybe you want to move
through this train or it's safer.
Mm-hmm right.
Mornings tend to be safer, you know, for
lots of reasons, give an Alpine start.
Yeah.
Alpine start or, uh, avalanches,
you know, solar effect, everything.
Right.
So.
limiting your exposure to
hazards is really critical.
And if you are always lugging a
tent and sleeping a bag around
on a day trip that day, trip's
gonna go into an overnight trip.
Yeah.
You're gonna be knackered too.
It's gonna be knackered.
Yeah.
So the balance then on those day
trips is I always think of it this
way is that you're bringing enough
equipment, so you're not gonna die.
Mm.
Right.
Mm-hmm , you're not gonna die.
You gotta last 24 hours.
Mm-hmm really, so you're gonna be
uncomfortable, but you're not gonna die.
And, um, one of the, um, stories
that comes to mind that I can think
back to is, uh, the elephant lake.
The winter route elephant
lake, um, marked trail route.
Yeah, I think it's 24 kilometers return.
Mm-hmm maybe a thousand meter gain
and you start in Squamish at the,
um, Trailhead for the red Heather,
and then it's marked by Rangers.
And they basically have these bamboo
poles that are every hundred, 200 meters
along the winter route mm-hmm . And
because a lot of people would travel
in from the city on a Friday night and
they just follow this marked route.
So in terms of navigation, you don't
need a lot of age, you just follow
yellow brick road, for example.
Right.
Right.
Um, and this is back in 2010.
Okay.
So I'm dating myself back
here, going back a little bit.
Yeah.
On my very first set of back country skis.
And I remember those skis,
little skinny, 60 underfoot.
Yep.
1 65.
No idea.
Yeah.
Just to get me to, to
the mountain, to climate.
Yep.
Now that was my concept.
Right.
And my partner at the time, Laura
and I would very adventurous
heading out into the back country.
And, um, we would.
Decided to do a day trip and
have dinner at the hut and then
ski back with headlamps, right.
Um, back to the car.
Yeah.
That was your plan marked up.
Everything was kosher.
Um, and all, I meant 2010, I
wasn't probably aware of a lot
of the weather forecasting.
Um, or maybe they weren't even
as developed as they are now.
Right, right.
So the weather forecasting
was a big issue.
Uh, but we always had the basics.
We always had your trans probe shovel,
a tarp, uh, warm jacket, spare gloves,
spare hat to beanie for the UK.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I think beanie in the us as well.
Not sure, but too.
Yeah, yeah, too, too,
you know, Goretex jacket.
Um, you know, the basics so that, you
know, the concept was is that you could
last 24 hours if you needed to be.
Hmm.
Um, So everything was fine.
I think we set off probably mid-morning
skinneded up, got into the hut probably
early evening four o'clock had dinner.
I opened the door last light and I
started seeing precep precipitation
stuff happen a little bit of the wind
picking up and I'm like, well, let's go.
This is gonna be fun.
I like moving in storms.
I told you I love storm skiing.
Mm-hmm so, Hey, this is gonna be great.
And we got marked root.
What could go wrong?
Right?
Easy, easy peasy.
Right?
Easy, easy peasy.
So we're carrying on and heading
up the Ridge and, uh, the storms
building and now it's black.
Like we're going, we've lost light.
Headlamps is fine.
And the storm by the time we're
about halfway along the Ridge, it is
completely ping pong ball, white out.
And maybe you could see.
You know, I, I couldn't see
the next marker anymore, right?
Yeah, marker's gone.
Yep.
And I may have had a GPS,
but, um, you know, I probably
didn't drop any bed crumbs.
I probably had the parking lot, but
that doesn't necessarily gonna be able
to navigate off this is pre iPhone.
So my favorite navigation tools
or Cal Topo, Gaia fat map, um,
easily follow those in a white out.
No problem.
Mm-hmm I could navigate to a
couple meters of where I needed
to be in a complete white out.
Didn't have those tools.
Right.
Um, we heavily relied on map and
compass, but as you know, a map and
a storm's not gonna work too well.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Not too, not too hot.
Not the best.
You know, I probably didn't have a root
card, so I didn't have my bearings.
I didn't have my legs down.
Like a good soldier would.
Right.
and I still do all that.
I still, we call it a white Oak
card, um, for the mountains.
Mm-hmm so I still do it.
Um, if I'm in unknown train,
I'll make a white Oak card.
So if my iPhone piles in or
something like that, I'll have
the bearing, uh, my backup.
Navigation's always an imeter.
Um, and that's the old SAS
navigation on the roots.
You just have map compass, Otter mm-hmm
. And if you have a bearing with your
Teter, you'll know where you're along
that line map, simple, simple tools.
Right.
So I did have a map cuz I was religious
in that, you know, map compass.
So Timor, I did have that at the
time, but bought, but my problem
solving was I just need to get
to the next marker mm-hmm right.
Um, so I'd have to leave Laura at one
of the posts where they headlamp on and
I would do a 360 to locate the next one
and that's how I was navigating, right?
Yeah.
So H.
I would've just dug an emergency shelter.
Mm-hmm right.
So just a snow cave.
Really just find a wind lip,
dig into the backside, get in,
put your backpack backpack in.
So it's, it's not like, uh,
an AGL or anything like that.
Mm-hmm , it's just, but this was
Olympics and Laura was a volunteer
and her very first day was starting
the next day and she's very like
particular she needed to be there.
so I also had that human factor
mm-hmm , um, affecting my decision of
where we need to keep going, because
she's gonna needs to volunteer the
next day to be at her very first
event where everything pulled me.
I should just dig in right
for the night, right?
Yes.
And wait it out.
Yep.
Storm's gonna be good.
We'll have some good
skiing down in the date.
It's fine.
But, um, I pressed on.
Okay.
And, um, We, we continued
that, leaving her at one post.
I do it head out 360, find the
next post next bamboo marker.
And then she just follow
the light ski to me.
Yeah.
Yell at her ski to me.
Yeah.
And that's how we got along the Ridge.
And I think the Ridge is like
maybe four or five kilometers.
Okay.
That's how I got through this.
And then at the certain point, then
when you get the, the dissent to
Paul Ridge in the red, Heather,
um, that's pretty easy, you know,
you're going downhill from there.
Yeah.
So we're touring along there,
but the elevation ban changed
and the snow changed rain.
Hmm.
So Goretex is good.
Yeah.
And, um, I see this party of two
or three coming up, snow shoes.
So they're transitioning
from rain to snow.
Oh, I'm not fine in the Alpine.
That's never good.
That's never a good idea.
Right.
That's I avoid that at all.
Like if there's a trip where
we're starting in rain going
to the Alpine, I don't go.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
So.
it's easier to go from snow to rain.
Mm-hmm cause you're on your way out.
Mm-hmm and these guys have
black, uh, garbage bags over top.
Oh, with the arms cut out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think there was stuff
hanging off it and everything.
And I, and I said to the guy guys,
like, really, what are you doing?
And this is probably at midnight now, too.
Yeah.
So that's how late we've gone.
That's how long it's
taken us to get there.
I remember trying to tell these
guys, like, not a good idea.
Honestly.
I said just go back to red, Heather
and bevy there for the night.
Mm-hmm there's no turning 'em around.
I have no idea if they made
it, they didn't make it.
Mm-hmm um, I was in, in
squamous star at the time.
Anyway, so no idea,
but just watching them.
Trucking off you just say, you know, that
term, I think we call it, well, I call
that term the unconscious and confident.
Right.
And then you're conscious, confident
as you get more training, as we talked
about and we strive then to become, or I
try to train my clients to be conscious,
confident, conscious, confident, yes.
Conscious and confident.
And then you wanna move into the
unconscious competent, right?
Yes.
And that's realm.
So this is definitely the
unconscious, uh, incompetent.
Right.
You know, and it's just
sheer luck that sheer luck.
Yeah.
That's when get them through it.
Yeah.
So never a good idea.
Midnight garbage bags heading out.
And you'd see that.
I mean, my days in Squamish star,
that was pretty common to see.
Yeah.
You know, people you're going
out to rescue like that.
Right.
I mean, I did the garbage
bag thing when I was younger.
I'm
there is a point like people say, when
it's fully on sleet over your Gortex.
Yeah.
You know, like, you know,
you can carry it for sure.
You know?
Well, I just did it cause
I didn't have any money.
Yeah.
I, uh, would go to the boardroom
or to, uh, where was it?
I forget what it was.
Yeah.
Maybe it was sport check
or something like this.
And, uh, rather than renting your skis
or your board, you could, uh, demo it
there and you get a brand new board.
So you demo all the gear and it was
way cheaper, but I would just put
garbage bags on for all my gear.
I looked like a goof on the slopes,
but, uh, uh, that was part of the
learning experience and that whole.
Conscious incompetent area is, and you
and I were talking about this earlier
about the Dunning Kruger effect.
And I mean, for listeners who
haven't heard of that one, I think
more and more people talk about it.
Now it's a bit more common, but
essentially the Dunning Kruger
effect, there's two guys, Mr.
Dunning and Mr.
Kruger and two different universities.
And, uh, they came up with a formula
that showed a person's confidence
level based on their, uh, ability and
the length of time they've been into
a new skill and they would find a
large bell curve where people get in.
They're like, oh, I don't know anything.
And they learn just a little bit.
And all of a sudden their confidence
level is through the roof.
They figure I can do this.
And the more and more that they learn,
they realize holy Crow that was dangerous.
Or I shouldn't have done that.
Or I, I really am.
I'm just scratching
the tip of the iceberg.
There's so much to know.
I don't know if I'll ever know it.
So all of a sudden they're the
more they know their confidence
level starts coming down a bit.
Cuz they realize there's.
They realize what they don't know?
Well, I've always said a T one avalanche
skills trainer, one course or standard
baseline course, we teach the students
enough to get themselves into trouble.
Right?
Yes.
That's basically my takeaway that
I get them to take away is like,
you're just now more conscious of
the actual hazards that's out there.
Right.
Mm-hmm so for sure,
for sure.
So thinking about that,
uh, whole Dunning Kruger.
I remember when I was, what was I 17?
I think I was, and, uh, I decided to
take my wood panel station wagon up
a mountainside up past cam loops and
went to a location where I'd known.
And I've been there a lot since I've
been a little kid and, uh, it was
up a logging road and usually it's
either, it was either helicopter
flight in or a, um, or a hike in and.
Uh, for this since the main road
was quasi plowed, but the side roads
that take you in there weren't we
had about a 21 K hike in that's.
Okay.
I figured most of it.
I'm gonna be hiking on a, on a road.
That's easy.
Right?
Well, one thing I learned really
quick at that age was the main road
and the side roads look all the same
when they're all snowed in right.
Summertime that you can
really tell the difference.
What else did I learn?
I learned maybe don't load your, uh,
backpack full of all the food and
booze and everything else that you
think you wanna be bringing in and
leave behind some essential equipment,
because you know, in your back of
your head, I know how to get there.
I know where it is.
I'm fit.
I'll just hike it in.
And we're good.
It was about negative 12 out.
And, uh, it was, it was hard
slogging through, I mean, we're,
we're pay hole in every step.
We had our snow shoes at, uh,
uh, the guy at mountain magic.
It's a store.
It's not a left around anymore, but,
uh, he stayed open on Christmas Eve
so I could get off work and have
renting these snow shoes from him.
And then he gave me a deal on it.
Nice guy.
Uh we're Payco and all, all the way.
And end up getting lost going in there.
And that was okay.
I mean, like through the
day it was, it was sunny.
Right.
And so I've got my t-shirt on, it was
thinking of 12, but I'm hot cuz I'm
working hard and heavy pack and, and
uh, probably a cotton t-shirt back then.
It was a cotton t-shirt yes.
absolutely.
I love cotton, but it's
not an outdoor shirt.
No.
Yeah.
But um, I remember we were going
in and I was with two other people.
I was able to talk into going in and
they, one guy wasn't quite as fit.
The other guy was, uh, even less fit and.
It was, it was a long slow slog.
And I was given a satellite maps
that a, another fellow came up.
He says, oh, we got these satellite photos
that were taken by a logging company.
You gotta use 'em.
It shows all the new clear cuts out there.
So it'll make it easy for you.
And I'd never navigated off sat
photos before I'd use topos, right?
Yeah.
I'd use map encompass, but, and so
I'm just kinda looking around and
looking and saying, good lesson,
know your kit, know how to use it.
Right.
Um, I just figured it would be easy.
I, it would all make sense.
And this is way pre iPhone.
And this is pre satellite photos.
Really?
This was pretty
stable.
I mean, we used to get them
in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Right.
So 2005, seven era.
Yeah.
Never had them in Koal Bosnia,
but yeah, they surfaced.
Around that era, 2005 for me.
So this set photographs.
Yeah, this was 94 around there, 93.
And so, I mean, they, they were doing it.
They're doing it, but it was new for me.
It's not like we had Google where we
just go on and so, uh, good learning.
Did you have
Google earth back then?
Trump?
No, not back then.
No.
Um, and I remember, I thought
I'm gonna take a shortcut.
I think I know where it is.
Right.
And I got a compass out and I'm
using these sat photos and I'm gonna
take a shortcut through this area.
And I was correct in what I was thinking.
I just didn't realize the, um, uh, the
sat photo, of course doesn't show the
train and the, um, The sun was going
down and I went down this really steep
embankment, and I kept falling into
the snow because there was, um, down
trees that I was falling in between.
And, and, uh, I remember I came back up
and I was still wearing my t-shirt right.
And I didn't realize
how cold I was getting.
And the other two were really
cold, but the sun's going down.
And I finally, I said, you know what,
I'm going to, they were waiting at the
top cuz I was going to show 'em the way.
And of course I ended up coming
back up and, but everything
was getting really dark for me.
Like it seemed like it was getting
darker than what the sunset was doing.
Yeah.
And I realized I'm not
shaking or anything.
And maybe this is hypothermia.
I don't know.
I've read about this.
Right.
So, um, I.
I got some kit on and tried to get
some warm gear on and, uh, wanted
to get moving as fast as I could.
We're going back up a hill
and I told them, I said, look,
it, I, I'm not feeling right.
Something's not quite clicking.
And, um, if for whatever reason,
cuz it's getting darker and darker.
If, if for whatever, whatever
reason I happen to pass out, I'm
pretty sure our destination is.
And I point in the area and I think
it's only gonna be about another
couple kilometers over that way.
Just drop the packs and drag me in right.
And um, thankfully once I started to
warm up a little bit and I had some kit
on things, started feeling a little bit
more optimistic and that doom and gloom
feelings kind of started to subside.
But the other two that I was with
were, uh, really delving deep into
this whole mental doom and gloom.
And, and I asked him, I said, look
at scale of one to 10, where you
at 10 you're right as range zero.
You're dead.
Where are you at?
And, uh, one guy's like, I don't know,
like a four, the other guy's like a two.
I hated.
Yeah.
So, um, we ended up just through sheer
determination and stupidity slogging in.
And I remember when we finally found
this one lake and was all frozen over,
and that was the lake where we had
to be, it took us 45 minutes to cross
something that in the summertime would've
taken you, I don't know, five, yeah.
Seven minutes to, to cross.
And then I get to the, um, to the
cabin and I figure, oh, this is great.
I couldn't get the lock open.
Cuz the hands weren't working, I figured
I'm gonna have to knock the door down.
Eventually find a way in and the thinking.
Everything would be great when
you're in the cabin and not
realizing until you get inside.
It's the exact same temperature as
everything outside, um, fire got going.
We're good.
Amazing how good.
Yeah, you are.
Once a fire gets going and you start
to warm up a bit and, uh, but there was
a lot of learning lessons off of that.
Know your kit, know what
you're bringing with.
You don't bring untested
stuff the very first time out.
Um, I didn't really have much
of a trip plan on that one.
Um, maybe maybe have a
little bit lighter pack.
Like it was heavy pack that I was packing
in and, um, I mean, bunch of fresh
food, none of this freeze dried stuff.
Right.
I think I had a chicken or two in my
backpack cuz I wanted to cook those up.
Um, I've learned a lot since then.
Yeah.
On, um, what, what not to do and how
to stay outta trouble and others.
I mean, I was up there at another time in
the winter and these other people had to
break into our vehicle and make a shelter
out of it because they, um, uh, they were
lost and they found the vehicle there.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Um, couple little learning points
on that one, I think between you
and I, I probably have more of these
survival type stories that you do.
Yeah.
Based, you
mentioned that to me and they're like,
let's hear the, your, um, you know,
some of your survival stories and
I'm like, Travis, I don't really have
that many and I've been out there.
Yeah.
And it comes down to that.
And I've said that I've never had
an unplanned B yet touch wood.
I've never had to stay
on a climbing route.
Cause I ran at a time light or whatever.
Um, and I think that really
comes down to touch wood.
Um, Pretty good planning preparation.
Right, right.
Cause I haven't had that experience.
of, I I've had some, some, um,
I wouldn't call it near miss,
but I mean, I got frostbite in
my hand, on, on Hector, right.
Similar, you know, uh, my defy and I
were going up to ski mountain Hecker.
So mountain Hector, I thinks around
12,000 feet in the Rockies near
mosquito hostel Icefield Parkway.
And it was super cold.
Maybe it was February.
And um, we got a break.
The conditions went to moderate
for avalanche clear sunny day.
It's gonna be minus 20.
So we thought let's go and I had these
good Atter gloves on, and if everyone
hasn't done it, there's a gully.
You gotta go up and it's faceted
snow because it's so cold.
And one of the things I had going on
was I didn't have the, um, top of the
gloves, cinch tight, and you basically
are having to plunge step up this gully,
you can't skin it and I'm plunging up.
And, um, the snow is going
down the inside of my gloves.
Mm.
, I didn't really clock
it cuz I'm working hard.
Like you said, you're my t-shirt right.
So I'm working hard and the
snow's going in my glove and it's
melting, but everything's fine.
Everything's warm because I'm working.
Mm.
And then as we progressed up the mountain,
just short of summiting, we took a break
and I, maybe we talked about this in one
of our podcasts, but I remember looking at
a, at, at a smaller pair of gloves in my
bag, going, my hands are cold right now.
Mm-hmm but I should put these
gloves on mm-hmm but they're not
as thick as the ones I'm wearing.
So I can't see it being any better.
So I didn't change.
Right.
But I should have changed my gloves.
Mm-hmm because you know, the wind
was howling from, I guess it would
be coming from the Northeast, but
it would basically howling on this
side of my face, this side of it.
So we got up there.
summited transitioned, beautiful ski down.
It was phenomenal.
Like we did this, I think
it was maybe six hours up.
Yeah.
I can't even remember.
And we were 40 minutes back at the
car, high fived at the car, got in
the car, um, drove down the road.
Um, but I'll take a step back.
So I did take my gloves out and
I noticed on my pinky finger and
all my fingers, there was fleece.
There was a liner.
Yeah.
Inside the Goretex Gutar glove.
So the moisture went in, melted,
moved outside the fleece couldn't
pass the leather barrier.
Mm.
Re ref froze.
Each finger had a, like
a cocoon of ice on it.
Okay.
I guess.
So I looked at it didn't
think anything of it.
I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
Got in the car.
driving down the road.
Two minutes later,
hands start thawing out.
I had to pull over dry heaving,
agony, painful incapacitated.
Wow.
I had basically long story short ended
up with frostbite in my pinky, um, frost.
That's not from that truck.
I think that's anchors pencil.
I'm just looking at it
now you're looking at it.
Black finger.
I think that's from the pencil.
Yeah.
Yeah, but actually it's this finger.
Um, and we had to go to the ho
I couldn't sleep that night.
It's one of the most severe pain
I've had, was having frostbite
go to the hospital the next day.
And we had planned to go up and ski
up in the wop then and stay at bohu
and the dock side, you can't go back
out and expose your, your finger.
Um, cuz if you get another cold
injury, orating it in the summer.
Kinda like my fingers.
I like my fingers.
Right.
So I had a lot going on when
we got back to Whistler, like
we canceled a trip, came back.
I was doing my ski instructor 1 0 2.
So I basically had to ski
with Mitz and those hip pads.
For the rest of the winter.
Mm.
And to this day, my fingers are definitely
affected, especially the ones that
frostbite in mm-hmm . So it's very
subjective to the weather changes wet.
Um, but that was a lesson on that.
Like when, when we said, when,
you know, you should do something
and we talked about it, like, yep.
Change, change your socks.
Tighten your boots.
Yep.
Fix the blister problem.
Administrate change that
soaking wet base layer.
Mm-hmm change your gloves,
change your, to your, to soaking
wet, you know, or adjust it.
That's that's that's key.
Yeah.
Those little things of just
the very small, the discipline
to administrate yourself to
this pattern.
We keep coming back to this.
It is.
And, but there's something else
in there too, which is kinda
interesting, which is you thought
about it and went through your head.
Maybe I should do this.
And there is this weird little, six
sense type of thing that I don't think
people should ignore, especially when
they're out in a situation that could be,
um, could have some dire consequences.
If for whatever reason.
Now I get a sense, even,
you know, just around here.
Oh, I should probably pick this up.
Someone's gonna trip on it.
Yeah.
The second that I think that.
It's kinda like a self
fulfilling prophecy.
If I don't pick it up, somebody
will end up tripping on that.
Right.
So I've started to learn to really trust
that gut feeling or that sixth sense,
you know, Travis, uh, I was
just telling you about a climb.
I did this this Sunday.
Yeah.
It was called Goldy locks.
And it's up in Squamish put up by
calling Morehouse, uh, 15 pitch,
Alpine climb, traditional climbing.
So you place in your gear.
Um, grade goes at, most of the
pitches are like 10 a can B.
We felt that they're UN um, undergrad.
They could, every pitch
could be over grade.
So it's a pretty significant climb, right?
One hour approach in, we were seven
hours on route, which is pretty good.
21 minutes, a pitch mm-hmm . So
we're always calculating and timing,
everything time estimates, but
the walk off there's a walk off.
There's two ways to get down.
Rep held the route and called
and Moreell said, don't
recommend it parties below you.
There was no parties below us.
Right?
Loose rock.
We didn't really see any loose rock.
Yeah.
He did recommend somebody
coming up and bolting.
A decent propel route off to the side.
I have the hardware.
I don't know if you wanna.
Sure.
And I could go do it.
We'd take the gondola up.
Sounds like fun.
Let's do it, propel ourselves
in and bolt the route.
But the other way is you walk back to
the gon and that wouldn't have worked
for us because we would need another
four by four to get back up the road.
So he says there's a
bushwa three hour bushwa.
And to do the repel, you
needed a 70 meter rope.
We brought a 60 and I have this Escaper.
It allows me to repel single,
and you can pull it right.
It's not meant to do 15 wraps like that.
One wrap one off.
This Escaper is pretty cool off the show.
It, you, it's a pretty cool system.
Sure.
The BL Escaper where you can turn your
single rope into a 60, but we talked
about it and then we didn't action it.
Mm.
And that's um, there's two, two
rules that I kind of follow.
If I'm uncertain about something,
the first rule is get more info.
Mm, right.
Get more beta, more info.
Mm.
And the second rule is
increase your margin of safety.
Right?
So these are the two rules I apply when
I'm planning to go in the back country.
So you gotta get your
information if you're uncertain.
And one way to create, like for example,
we could have increased our margin of
safety for this route by bringing a 70
meter route though, a 60 is adequate,
but a 60 wouldn't be adequate to
repel the route, unless you have an
Escaper for some of the longer route.
Right.
And I wouldn't, the Escaper is more
for emergency or that one off repel.
So we talked about the 70,
we didn't bring it right.
But there is ways of turning my 60
into a 70 without the Escaper too.
Sure.
And that's some Jedi guide stuff
that I can assure you later on.
Sure, sure.
We didn't even think about that either.
And we both thought to ourselves
at the top, would've been nice
to repel, but we sat off on the
bushwa and the bushwa was horrible.
It was literally jungle warfare.
one meter like horrible Bush
whacking for three hours to go back
down to the forest service road.
So just wrapped should have wrapped.
And, and I said to Steph,
I said, let's avoid trips.
Now that involve Bush walking.
Mm-hmm when they say three hours of
Bush walking, let's go find something
else or find another, even though our
guts, our guts, you know, said don't
like, bring a 70 mm-hmm really think
about rapping, even though Colin say
don't wrap it, totally wrap this route.
Right?
Like they do in a red rock,
there'll be 20 parties trying
to wrap, I mean, popular route.
Right.
And I get it in the Rockies when
you have limestone and rock fall.
And mm-hmm, same up in marble canyon
here, but this route's totally adequate.
It's just not a very good repel route.
Mm-hmm, there's a lot of
horizontal movement and stuff.
Right.
So I, you know, I think, you know,
we, we talk about our guts and, and,
you know, like for example, I said,
you know, I need to change my gloves.
Right.
But I didn't do it.
Unfortunately, we often,
um, overpower that.
Whatever that conscious, um, influence
is telling us to do something.
Mm-hmm we usually put it to our
mental map after it's gone wrong.
Right.
And usually, you know, the incidents
aren't significant enough to kill us.
Mm-hmm another mentor.
Ben Peter says is mountain guide
says that, you know, some of the
recreationally climbing we see is there
should be more fatalities out there,
but humans are really hard to kill.
Right, right.
It's a luck game, right?
Yep.
The survival game is actually,
I believe it's really hard.
Mm-hmm and I see it so many times out
there with rec parties, but, um, I think
we need to make that mistake survive.
if we can put it to our mental map
and I'm, I rarely ever make that
decision, that mistake twice mm-hmm
and, um, I'm probably my worst credit.
Critic critic.
Yes.
On, on my exams.
Yeah.
I beat myself up harder
than the examiners.
And, but, and I tell 'em that too.
Like I really process, I analyze it
for 24 hours where I made that mistake.
Mm-hmm but my takeaway from it is
I never make that mistake again.
And I tell the, the examiners that I said,
and I can actually put the examiner and
the mistake and the exam I was on in my
guiding stream as a learning mental map.
Mm-hmm, where this guide said, you know,
like, um, I can remember for example, um,
my Gado, who is a, our technical director
for the ACMG on my apprentice training
in Whistler, the turn I skied under the
recreational, um, Uh, Decker, right?
The recreational tri just goes
under Decker and you head out yeah.
That's normal route.
And he is like, Jay, I need you
to take as an apprentice guide.
Um, the safer option, right?
I need you to take, um,
the lesser of two evils.
And I put that to my mind.
I'm like, yeah, that totally makes sense.
Mm-hmm um, and recently this winter I
was guiding rainbow peak, rainbow peak
has gen peak and it's a really fun day
trip, but I recommend the hell drop.
I know a guy but you can do it.
And gen peak is a freaking flyer.
It usually kills one to two people
a year mm-hmm and I had a, a client
up there and we got the gen lake.
I can't, maybe it's generally it's the
lake that's at the base of gen peak.
Okay.
We went out to the center of the lake,
had our lunch transitioned, two rec
parties skinned right underneath gen peak.
And that's where they stopped.
Mm.
And I said, looking at this, I
said, I know today, We're at like
two 11 in terms of avalanche risk.
It's Bulletproof nothing's gonna
happen, but do the recreational
party know that mm-hmm and I
said, probably not, probably not.
Then I pulled up pictures of
avalanches that almost reached
the center of the lake mm.
From the overhead above gen peak.
And I said, I always default to the
safer option, even though I can actually
make a hazard assessment and go on this
day, it's safe to stop where they did.
I think it's just bad habit
to get into mm-hmm right.
So I think that's, you know, well,
that's a growing thing too.
It is like, you get older, you
get, um, you see what could go
wrong when you're younger, you're
invincible nothing's gonna happen.
Right.
Or you don't care if anything happens.
Exactly.
Um, you know, well, that's why they
say like 25, uh, 20 to 25 is the
highest fatality rate in young men.
Is it more adventurous, less hazard?
I could see that awareness.
Um, and it's interesting.
And I always say this, like the,
um, you know, the British army has
a matrix of what age you should be
at what rank, you know, private 16
to 18, Lance corporals are 18 to
2122 section commanders, 23 to 25.
Mm-hmm right at that age because
they are leading the ban at church
mm-hmm . Um, when we were teaching
those pre SES selection courses for
the core guys to go on the infantry.
Training course that I was
one of the instructors.
Remember one of the chief instructors
saying section commanders are pit
bulls being held by the platoon
commander on a chain mm-hmm
And then the platoon
commander releases them.
And that totally stuck with me.
And they were mm-hmm and in Iraq,
I was that I was that cutting edge.
Mm-hmm , you know, leading the charges
in, you know, in the buildings and,
um, El mark ABAR and things like that.
Um, and the time I rolled in, in
Afghanistan, I was a platoon Sergeant
and I was happy to be one tactical
bound back from the assault exception
because what these boys got up to and
what they had to do, I'm just like.
You know, I was probably 28 then mm-hmm,
the old man at 28 in the platoon.
Right.
Um, where my Canadian counterpart, I met
this warrant there from RCR, one of my
buddies, and I we've talked about it.
He was like 38.
Mm-hmm doing the same jobs.
Right.
Mm-hmm um, but at 28 I was a
voice reason in that platoon.
And I agree with you.
And I got 23 to 25 is pretty critical.
Mm-hmm also the high,
highest fatality, you know?
Well, you've mentioned a couple of things.
So, uh, your phone, you're using the phone
for navigation mm-hmm and you're loving.
I love that.
Yeah.
Um, are you carrying backup battery power
with you?
A hundred percent.
Okay.
So there's certain things.
So we it's interesting now, um, like Murn
park outside TWA mm-hmm people get lost.
Sure.
And call SAR.
And if they had situational awareness Hmm.
They know that you got the ocean.
Mm.
You got the highway, you got the mine.
Mm-hmm and you got the highway mm-hmm
you're gonna walk in a direction.
Yep.
You're gonna get out.
But they get lost in a
kilometer square footage.
Mm-hmm and they call SAR.
Mm-hmm um, and it's really
critical with your phone.
If you find yourself in that situation,
you have to, um, save battery life.
So airplane mode's really critical,
but you can't obviously use
your cell with airplane mode.
Right.
But if you have cell reception,
then you need to call that's your
most primary thing right away is
call and everyone has an iPhone.
I don't know anything else.
Besides iPhones, all these
other smartphones, but on the
iPhone, they have a compass app.
Mm-hmm that comes with it.
The compass app has your long lot.
All you gotta do is call when you
call nine one one, they put you to
the SAR manager, open that compass
app and give 'em that long lot.
And it gives you elevation.
Yeah.
They're gonna find you
that's really critical.
And often what happens is that
our managers talk people through
how to find their location.
I highly recommend navigation
apps like Gaia, Cal Topo, um, Fat.
Map's pretty big.
I'm not a big fat map map guy, myself.
I really like Cal topple
mm-hmm , um, building roots and
then I import them into my Gaia.
Okay.
And I think Gaia's a really
good navigation yeah.
At, to use, but I love Cal topple.
You can build the root, it
gives you the elevation.
And then I, I calculate my speed
distance time with this, with
another app called guide space.
Yeah.
That I use.
So those three apps are my
biggest tools is the guide pace.
And the compass is good too.
I love the compass mm-hmm with
quick reference elevation.
Um, so when I'm obviously
navigating, I go to airplane
mode, close, all your other apps.
It drains, it drains the phone.
So airplane mode also, I
don't know if you know this.
Did you know if you charge your phone
in airplane mode, it charges faster.
I
did not know that you not know that.
I didn't know that.
Start the game
trap really go play mode and it's.
It, it, it rockstar it in,
I know, works as fast.
I, I believe the newer phones.
Yeah.
iPhones will charge from like zero to 25
really quick and then slower afterwards.
So they can get a
emergency charge on plane.
Try,
like even in your truck.
I I've been doing airplane mode probably
six, seven years now with iPhones.
Interesting charges it like,
you know, like for example, um,
like it makes sense.
It's not gonna have as much
draw as you're charging it.
Like
often I, uh, will have my not start
my truck, but just turn the key.
So it's charging off the battery.
Right.
So I don't wanna waste fuel, but I can
waste enough battery in my truck to
charge my phone, go to airplane mode.
And it's a fraction of the time.
So that's why you can carry a small cell.
I think I like usually just carry
the zero or zero, whatever, go zero.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
The low I get about four full
charges out of it in a claim mode.
Yeah.
that's pretty good.
Yeah.
Um, for longer trips, like I would
say anything more in three days
I have a solar charged battery,
small, probably the sizes notebook.
Yep.
And I've migrated to all my systems.
My headlamp can be charged by that.
Um, my iPhone, my e-reader.
So
you're using a rechargeable
headlamp, not a battery.
Yeah.
Correct.
Okay.
And the rechargeable headlamp is
good without bringing like, um,
I'm probably good for three days.
Right.
And be honest, I try not to
move that much at night anymore.
Sure.
Right.
Sure.
It's like, I try not to,
there is Alpine start.
Sure.
We we're marching off.
Yep.
Right.
3:00 AM with headlamp and
you have different settings.
So you go really low light.
Yeah.
If I'm technically climbing,
then I'll go higher beam.
So I save that energy for that lamp.
So I'm using, um, yeah,
I'm charging with that.
So on Denali, I.
My iPhone, my eReader, my
headlamp, all got charged with
this solar panel battery pack.
That was this size.
Hmm.
When it's that cold though?
Minus three at night, everything's
gotta go in the sleep bag.
Right?
All the, anything batteries gotta
go in your sleep bag at that cold.
Batter's only cold, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Always in there.
And, and your fuel canisters, but
you shouldn't have full canisters
on the alley unless you're
climbing the more technical route.
You be white gas anyways.
Right.
But, um, all that is in your sleep bag.
So yeah, that definitely, if
it's a day trip, I usually don't
bring that spare, um, battery.
Mm-hmm I'll just, I go
straight to airplane mode.
Okay.
Just save my battery.
Right.
And, and you gotta have it your
phone soon as you use that screen.
Close it mm-hmm as in shut the
phone off on the side, like not
down, but like close that screen.
I've had it where I've
left it on the camera.
Like you go to take a photo
and it stays on, stays on.
That just sucks the battery.
Right?
So you gotta be really diligent, like
shut the phone off into hibernation mode.
Mm-hmm right away.
Boom.
Save it.
Right.
Um, I try not to track too many
maps like Gaia, when you Gaia can
track Telepo can track fat map.
Mm-hmm as soon as you do that, it just
depletes the energy mm-hmm of the phone.
So often I'll just create
my own maps anyways.
Um, if it's key, I like, I really want
to track this, then I will track it and
then I'll ensure I have battery pack.
So if I'm tracking on a day track day
trip, then I bring a spray battery.
You know, another way I do as a guide
now is I will build the route and
share it with all my clients smart.
So now everybody has it.
So that's backup navigation.
Mm-hmm right.
So everybody's on their iPhone.
Has that.
That route, um, something comes to
mind, we're talking about it, but,
um, famous Alpine traverse called
the, um, Haltz route in, in the Alps
in 2018 and a storm came in and 16
people died right over that weekend.
And one of the parties was a 10 person
team, um, led by a mountain guide and
his wife and they set off just pre-storm.
It would've been better to probably
hang out in one of the huts.
Sure.
And he got, there were, I think
there were then four to 600 meters
of, of the other hut on this Ridge.
They couldn't find the exit
down mm-hmm and his iPhone.
And, um, eight people died that night
in his group, including him, the, the
mountain guide and one person did,
I believe have a GPS, but it wasn't
getting shared or anything else.
And that's one thing,
um, on a big expedition.
I will bring a GPS and
plot the basic points.
Mm-hmm right.
If you actually had the basic points,
but I don't, I find the older GPSs,
they're not as, um, modernized right.
With all the map layers and the
navigation as their iPhones.
Sure.
Right.
So there's that trade off and they're
heavy and heavy by saying that I do have
a little ere that's like, you know, right.
The little guy, the little guy.
Yeah.
Right.
But navigating, it's not the same,
the way points and everything,
but it would be good to drop,
you know, critical way points.
Like for example, that, um, critical
descent route you'd have the hu the,
and that critical descent route would
be perfect to do so if something
like that I'd have that in the group.
I don't necessarily have to carry
it, but you'd have that backup.
But, you know, honestly for myself,
um, I also carry an in reach.
Right?
So the little one, the little
I have the mini in reach.
Yeah.
And this goes back to the basics again,
where I can get my, um, if my iPhone
shuts down, I can turn on this in reach
and I can get my UTM grid reference.
Right.
So if I have my map, you you're golden.
I can find where I am on the map.
Mm-hmm and just plot my point.
Now we're back to the
old school map compass.
So these are old skills that we,
uh, even though they're old schools
that you and I grew up on, um,
don't pay a lip service, right?
Mm-hmm like, definitely you need
to, well, it's worthwhile, worthwhile
understanding how to read a UTM grid.
Yeah.
I've, I've migrated from the military.
Good reference to the UTM.
Mm.
Um, I'm in and out long lats.
I don't think it's as accurate,
but SAR likes the long lats.
Okay.
You get that in aviation long LA yeah.
UTMs really important.
I think it's the easiest way
to navigate understand UTM.
So you can take that navigation
point from your end reach, plug
on the map and that's my backup,
but you have to have your GPS.
So that's UTMs universal, transverse Meor.
Yeah.
And that's so you can take a look
at your map and exactly shows you
exactly what map you should be
looking at and shows you exact.
If you know how to read it, you can
see exactly where you are in the grid.
Yeah.
And it, it is a just.
The the military good reference
system is a condensed version of that.
Right.
But, um, both are effective, but I
just find UTM now is just it's you
don't have to convert anything easy.
It's easy.
Um, and understanding it.
So I think that's really important.
That's my backup really is the map.
UTM compass eptember I carry
an, a temperature ever.
I go mm-hmm um,
so that would be what your watch
or would that be your watch?
Yeah.
Yeah, my watch.
So you'd have to always zero
that zero in the morning, right?
Yeah.
It's kind of good too.
Cuz now we're getting into
the weather mountain weather.
Right.
But you know, you look at the
barometer and the easiest.
Layman's terms if your barometer
affects your altitude mm-hmm so
like if your, um, altitude has
gone up, you wanna go down, right.
That's the most layman, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If the Altitude's gone down, it goes
up and we can get more into the weather
and barometer concept after you'd
have a low pressure.
Yeah.
Low pressure, high
pressure systems, right.
Layman terms.
That's one way, just another
fun thing to look at.
Right.
So
one thing that I tend to bring with
me is, um, I always like to have a
way to make fire and I always now
bring a SIL tarp, some sort of a 4%.
Yeah.
So you're in the Alpine
a lot more than I am.
I'm in the Bush Mo mostly slogging
through, but having a, um, a SIL
tarp has been a godsend for us
on, on a number of occasions.
And I, I remember we did a fly
in to, uh, spa C last year and it
was, uh, myself, my wife, my son.
And we were in quasi remote area.
Well, I mean, remote area in so much as
there's nobody around for miles and miles,
but another group had also flown in.
So we were at a base camp area
and got up in the morning.
We're gonna hike up the mountain side.
We had an area we're gonna scope out.
We're looking for caribou.
And, uh, I remember we're going up there.
We have our packs on going light
as you can, but still have your kit
with you because if things go well,
you're gonna be coming back heavy.
Right.
So you're gonna be coming
back with an animal and.
I, as we're slogging up the mountain
side, this other group of guys
comes racing up shorts and runners
and, uh, no packs or most of them,
and they're running up past us.
And my son's getting a little upset.
He's like, man, we got up early,
we're doing all this stuff.
And these guys are gonna come up or they
get to see the animals before we do.
I'm like, don't worry about it.
Let's just keep going.
Right.
Anyways, we, uh, as we get higher and
higher in elevation and the weather
changes, this was in, uh, August late
August and, uh, uh, starts raining,
starts hailing, starts snowing.
And then we're full on white out
conditions when we're up there.
And uh, and I said, well, let's
just, well, we're gonna sit down.
We could either hike all the
way back down the mountain side.
Yeah.
That's an option for us.
Right.
But why don't we just sit down,
set up the tarp, stay warm.
We can have a little bit of food to eat.
And, uh, the other group
that went running past us.
They, they petered out they're they're
right back down the mountain side, we
were out, we came back at sunset and,
uh, uh, didn't, didn't find any caribou
up there, but, uh, uh, just having a
few essentials a means to stay warm,
uh, something to, uh, make a fire.
Now we didn't make a fire up
there, but we had our thermal.
You could have, we could have, yeah.
Had our thermal layers.
We had our, um, uh, hard shells, but
that tarp man life changes your whole
attitude and outlook changes when you're
hunkered down.
Even in the wintertime travel like
on my ski guide training, when we're,
let's say mechanized and you're
waiting for the Debo to come in.
It's amazing.
Just wrapping like yourself in that
silk tarp or whoever's injured, right.
It reflects the heat in right away.
Right?
Like it's crazy how much it shelters from
the wind mm-hmm and, um, makes you warm.
Steph just bought this one.
It's really cool.
Uh, but it's the ones that you pull
over and you sit in it and you get the
different there's two, four person.
Really?
Yeah, it, I think it's from RA.
Okay.
I'll send you specs on it,
but it's not it's it's it's
not like, no, not no longer.
Tying it in like a tarp.
Yeah.
You just pull in, in, if you
have two people, they just
sit on either side of it.
Interesting stays up.
Well, that's easy, but you cool at a bla
station because if it, all of a sudden
you get caught in a shower, you just
pull it over and you just stand there.
and it goes, oh, so that's kind
of a cool thing to look at.
Yeah.
So especially if you're in a blizzard,
you're not gonna worry about, um, trying
to tie it up in trees and all that.
Cause you're still gonna
get hammered on the side.
Right.
But yeah, I'll give you the specs
on it and maybe the listeners
would be interested too, but, um,
it's a cool thing to add as well.
Um, one thing that I have when I ski
guide though, I have a rescue tarp.
Okay.
That's also de bargain.
Uh Tobo and it's from Alpine thread works.
Okay.
So it's a little heavier, I think
it's just under two pounds, but you
can definitely, it's bigger than the
so tarps and it converts to a de.
Cool.
Um, check it out, out print
thread, work rescue to Bo
you just slid down the side or
you put your gear on it and,
uh, the skis okay.
On the splitboard can go inside of it.
Got it.
And then it has, uh, you can Rigg in cuz
we rather have a RA rope, the six mill
rope, or even a five mill cord, five
meter, six mill cord can make a bridal.
Okay.
And if it's steeper, you can have a
brake guy too, but it's on YouTube.
Alpine thread works.
Um, Neil is, he's a ski guy that
makes these he's so backlog.
He had something like couple
hundred orders last year.
Good for him.
Um, yeah, so good for him kind
of his thing, but check it out.
The Alpine thread works,
um, rescue tarp, ski tarp.
Um, pretty cool to have
for the wintertime.
You know, the reality is one person.
We always say this Steph, we plan like
one person, unless they're UTRA isn't
gonna drag somebody out but two people
can make a good effort with one person.
Sure.
And one of my buddies, uh,
Rory, um, and I think Robin, my
other buddy Sarek, Rob Robin.
Rory's wife, they were up skiing in, um,
the sky pilot basin mm-hmm and she blew
her Neo and they called SAR and they were
starting to get dark and Rory had the tarp
and, um, instead of waiting for squamous
SAR to come, they actually wrapped her up,
put the skis in and they dragged her out.
Nice.
And I think they met them on the, um,
there's a cat track on the way out.
Yeah.
But they actually pulled row's
wife out of there with the bum knee
instead of waiting around, you know,
and he's a ski guy, she SAR tech.
So it was an no brainer.
Yeah.
But, um, often that's the case where, you
know, you're relying on SAR and you can't.
And the reality is, is like, I always
tell people, this is really critical
too, especially in the winter is my
turnaround times are really critical
because, um, if I'm ski guiding
off Whistler or black home mm.
I wanna be back inbound by three 30
mm-hmm because it's dark by five 30.
Mm-hmm 5, 5 30.
And in the spring we can push that
timing out later, but it really comes
down to SAR being able to mobilize
and the helicopter flight time.
Mm-hmm and that's why it's really
critical in winter to dial back
your objectives start earlier.
But it really comes to being
somewhere safe by three 30, because
that limit that's given SAR an hour
and a half maximum time to respond.
Mm-hmm so that's why it's really critical
to keep that in mind in the wintertime
and light, because SAR can't fly at night.
Well saying that north
shore now has night vision.
Right.
Right.
But they may not come in a storm either.
Mm-hmm they often SAR managers
are like dig in for the night.
You know, a
lot of the places that I'm
heading, we, we don't have SAR.
That's gonna be coming out for us.
Yeah.
And it's um, uh, And when you're
talking about sharing the maps
with the rest of the people in your
group, very smart, easy, easy to do.
Everyone's gonna have
their cell phone with them.
But that brings to mind, not just your
kit, the things that you have with you.
And we've talked a little bit about
mindset, which is huge, but yeah, your,
the people in your group, knowing who
you're going out with and their mindset,
and I'll share a real quick story.
Um, one of the guys that was
on that trip that I took in
when I was 17, 18 years old.
And, uh, they thought they
were gonna die out there.
Yeah.
In my head that was never, death was
never an option because my ADHD brain
just never thinks of consequences.
Right.
It's just consequences.
Ah, whatever I'm I'm in the moment.
Right.
And, uh, but they thought
they were gonna die.
I didn't realize how
bad they thought it was.
And when.
A couple years later.
And instead of having the wood
panel station wagon, I'd now have
a, um, a nice 1980 Ford F two 50
half rusted out, but, uh, diesel
truck and I got some chains for it.
And I thought I can get us in closer
to our objective this time with
a chains on and we'll drive in as
closer we can and we'll take off.
And I talked one of these guys into
going with me, and that was a mistake
because the I having the right people
with you who are in the right mental mind
space makes one hell of a difference.
We got in son's going down.
I said, well, we'll just, I
got a canopy on this thing.
We're just gonna camp in
the canopy on the back.
Yeah.
Fine, easy peasy.
Right.
And that's, you know, 1215 Redridge.
So when, where we're at and, uh,
this guy starts falling apart.
I, I, he was saying, and doing
weird things that I, I'd not
known him to be like that.
I'm like, you know, I'll make you a fire.
Right.
And so I find some wood and get a fire
going, and it's all burning through the,
uh, this snow hard to keep it going.
But we get something going, that'll
throw a little bit of warmth and
he brings out some food and he's
eating a couple bites out of it.
And he throws in the fire,
like, what are you doing?
Right.
And then he's got his
bottle of wine with him.
He takes a couple sip and he
just dumps it in the fire.
Like, you put the fire
out, what are you doing?
Right.
And then he's crying.
Right.
And then like, what that, so.
Not pushing those in your group to the
level that you think they should be able
to, but objectively just cuz you can do
it or you feel you can do it objectively,
uh, gauging your group so that, um, you
can maybe kind of do away with that ego
cuz he didn't want to say he was scared.
He didn't want to say when he
woke up in the morning, the next
day, um, he said he didn't think
he was gonna survive the night.
Yeah, it was so cold.
So I think that's another
piece of the survival puzzle
is, uh, know who you're with
and you know, like you, you mentioned
a, I just took some notes here too,
Travis, but um, you know, sharing that
information in the group mm-hmm is,
and I share other things like the
distance, the elevation and the time.
Right.
And obviously a kit list.
Um,
What happens is, and what happened
on that fatality there in the Alps?
Hmm.
And the article about it talked
about, um, the expert halo.
So we follow the expert without question.
And, you know, they talked
about, well, everyone could
have done a weather forecast.
Sure.
That was out there.
They're all experienced ski,
mountaineers that hired a guide.
And what they did wrong was they
put the brains in neutral and just
let this guide make his decision.
And there's some of that, um, situations
in Canada right now where, you know,
it's gone to court and everything else.
And, and, and mm-hmm, the guide.
They're the groups are
avalanche and everything else.
Now I'm not saying to hire a guide and
then question every decision they make.
Yeah.
That sense.
And then I'm not gonna
go out with you again.
Right, right.
But there is that element.
Of that expert halo.
And it could be simple as you
know, I'm in the mountains.
Mm-hmm so you are gonna
come out with me now.
Mm-hmm right.
And that, and I have friends,
I have too ADA and Richie.
Yep.
They put their brains in neutral.
They go skiing with JJ for the day
and they want that, which is great.
And it's, it's, it's a guide day.
Sure.
I'm not taking any money for it.
Yeah.
But I'm actually responsible for them.
And I like it cuz I've
been in charge in sure.
But they actually, and I also have a
different level of risk, little higher.
And I remember coming back into
disease Ridge and it was a storm bay.
I love this storm skin and
there is elements that are VES
on it and you can still ski it.
You can, it's like going through a
minefield where the good train is.
We had loads of snow,
probably a meter that night.
And I remember.
Going at.
And I remember in my briefing,
the guys going the safest routes,
just go straight down the Ridge.
Right.
But dropping in is gonna be the money.
Yeah.
And I remember going,
um, this should be okay.
right.
I'll go first.
Yeah.
And Adam's like, that's
not good enough for me.
Hmm.
I have a wife and, and,
and, and he's a smart guy.
Yeah, he's a math, right?
Oh yeah.
Cal Clinton.
That's right.
This should work.
It's not good enough.
That's right.
I've
done the odds of C
either.
Gotta go.
It's either gotta work or it's not.
Yeah.
And I said, you're a
hundred percent right at it.
We need to go down the Ridge mm-hmm
. And I even said that to myself.
If I was guiding, I wouldn't have
considered this drop in route.
Right.
I'm out with two buddies and
they're following expert halo.
Mm-hmm the one good thing was I
verbalized that decision making
with them and that is like, yep.
Um, I'm tapping out we're I, this
should go is not good enough.
Yeah.
Good for him.
Good for him.
And we went down the Ridge.
Yep.
When he said that and it, and that
was a good learning point for me.
Mm-hmm in the guiding element too.
It's like, this should go, doesn't cut it.
Right.
It's either going or it's
not going mm-hmm right.
And why is it not going?
Right.
So, but that extra Halo's really critical.
Um, and it could be simply now all of
a sudden we're gonna rolls reversed.
I'm going out hunting with you.
Mm-hmm right.
Mm-hmm . And it's been a while
since I've been, I've been on the
two, a right for range for a while.
Right.
but weapon safety.
Sure.
Um, packing for that element.
Um, I, you know, I don't stock cougars.
Yeah.
You know, not anymore.
easy,
easy job.
buy them a drink.
Right.
You know, that's the
standard standard one.
Yep.
Yeah.
There's a Cougar hanging around
the base of the chief fire drink.
Yeah.
Um, but maybe we should edit all that out.
oh man.
But you know, that extra halo is
really, really critical too, you know?
Yes.
Um, fire, what are you bringing for fire?
So I used to be really keen.
Yeah.
Collect Lin.
Yep.
From the fire.
Now I usually have like.
um, if you're on an overnight trip
mm-hmm and you have a burner.
Yeah.
That is a really easy way to start a fire.
yeah, it is.
It'll dry.
Everything out.
Yeah.
Um, in the past, on my, uh,
survival training with the SAR.
Mm I've.
Used a candle mm-hmm with the
candle on the base, get the
really small, really fine ground
fall type, really thin branches.
Mm-hmm use the candle as
your base to get that going.
Yep.
Um, often now I just bring, um, Like my
toilet paper, mm-hmm with a lighter.
Mm.
So I'm removing it in different
elements, but you know, human
waste is a big issue now.
Right.
And you know, there's a whole
bunch of, you know, like in parks
they tell you to blue bag it out.
Mm-hmm like, especially in the states,
we're not so much in Canada, but
we're getting more and more because
imagine like, if everybody had to
poop at the base of the chief, right.
Which is what's happening.
Yep.
Got poop everywhere.
Um, but there's just different
disposals, the cat versus smearing your
waist on a rock and everything else.
Yeah.
But ultimately, if you can burn your
toilet paper, that is a good option.
If you don't pack it out.
Right.
So my toilet paper or my lighter, or in a
waterproof bag and they go hand in hand.
Okay.
Cause if there's not a fire, not
worried about starting to force
fire, I'm gonna burn my toilet paper.
Right.
Mm.
Um, so that would be my, basically
that's my fire starter kit.
Okay.
That I'm using right now.
Um, I don't get, you know, the.
Yeah, scratch
little Piazzo PI zone, uh, lighter.
Not just the lighter.
Yeah.
You know, and everyone has in a group.
Yep.
I always tell everyone bring a lighter
in a group and we have it, right.
Yeah.
Um, cuz ultimately that's all good
trap, but you heard the rule of three.
Yeah.
Right.
Three minutes for oxygen.
Three days for water.
Three weeks for food.
Mm-hmm right.
Those are the three that you
need to survive out there.
Yeah.
The rest.
Anything else is a bonus and I'm not
saying just like, you know, Go light.
completely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Too light going.
Light's fine.
As long as you know, when to turn around.
Yeah.
The whole mark Twight philosophy.
Right.
For sure.
So, you know, that's pretty
much my fire starter at this
point that I'm doing right.
Either at the stove, which
will aid in that fire starter.
Yeah.
Um, candle candle's really good.
I think a candle, a candle wrapped,
wrapped up in, um, tinfoil mm-hmm
cause it can also melt snow.
Right, right.
For that water, if you need it, you know,
in that night, but you can also like in
a water bottle, if, if you have a hard
water bottle, if you got water, just fill
the snow in, it kind of melts it down.
Cause ultimately I'll be honest tr.
I'm just surviving for 24 hours.
Right.
Because if you're caught in a storm,
if you can survive that 24 hours,
SAR can find you in the morning.
Right.
When it clears.
Yeah.
You've gotta survive 24 hours.
Mm-hmm and that's how
you gotta think about it.
So if that means you've gotta bring a
tent in a sleep bag everywhere you go.
Well then sure.
But you also gotta suffer.
Right.
But can I dig a snow
shelter wrap up in a tarp?
Um, you know, do I need
water in that 24 hours?
There is ways of getting
water in that snow shelter.
Right.
Um, or maybe it's in
the summertime, right?
Mm-hmm um, so that's how I
think, I think 24 hours, you
know, can that storm go longer?
Yes.
You know, but there might be
contingency plans placed by SAR.
Like for example, we can't fly
in the storm, but SAR migrated in
Squamish to go into snowmobiles.
Mm-hmm right.
And the first time they did
it, they just recruited some
yahoos that didn't go too well.
sorry.
Being towed or on the back and getting
bounced off and everything else.
So we have some, well, I say I'm
not partner squad SAR right now.
Leave abs absent.
But, um, there's some phenomenal,
um, snowmobile guides.
Mm-hmm, some mom phenomenal that
train the SAR annual training, and
then they go out and they're qualified.
Now they have quads.
Um, Snowmobiles or internal.
So instead of recruiting the yahoos,
that go on in the back 40 now, right?
Yeah.
So,
so, um, some way to communicate, uh,
something to kind of keep you warm
enough and shelter through the night
shelter, you know, and that,
communication's interesting too,
because I carry, we work off guides,
work off a three bank system.
So cell phone and reach radio.
Mm.
Um, and the first tier for the
most part is my cell phone.
Mm.
And reach, and then radio is more to
deal with internal mm-hmm . So I know
like if you're ski guiding on the, in
the back of black home, we monitor the
ACMG channel because my first level
of rescue is gonna be other guides.
Right.
So we monitor all the ACMG.
We chat, even though we're not working
for the same company, we'll do a heads up.
Hey, you know, maybe a,
um, skier accidental.
This slope is elevation on this layer.
We just radio it out.
You know, and everybody's
aware, so that's our first form.
And then often what I like to do
now is I may split the calms up
communications between the group.
No point the guide, for example,
having all that radio, then
I'm in the bottom of the KVA.
Right, right.
Having all the equipment
mm-hmm so maybe I keep the
radio, I'll give you the N reach.
Mm-hmm I show 'em how to operate.
Then reach this.
You gotta do is say the SOS button.
So for example, um, I was
guiding on GU BK, uh, Mount
Garley, um, 24 kilometer return.
And in the car park, I did a
quick brief, uh, this is my radio.
Um, this is the end reach
we may or may not have cell.
And the party of three was, you
know, I'm still concerned about
kvass rescue the guide's up front.
So basically when we hit the glacier,
I did a demo on how to transfer
the load to a picket mm-hmm and
then hit the SOS on then reach.
Right.
And I said, I'm either climbing out.
Or SARS gonna fly out right.
Or Ross is gonna fly over from the Tanus.
And I said, also here's Ross's
number and Ross is gonna fly over.
Right.
That was part of our
emergency action plan.
Emergency response plan was that I, I
can't expect these clients to haul me out.
It's not gonna happen, but I'm gonna
climb out, you know, would be my plan.
Um, and that communications
actually came into play.
Cuz we were talking about it
earlier, was that the clients,
um, it was a very big trip.
Mm-hmm they weren't given the
heli option in and heli option out.
Right.
And when we just below the summit called
the return, walked out and I realized,
um, the, you know, the fastest, this
trip's been guided has been 10 hours.
Mm-hmm that recently.
And, um, we were on
par for an 18 hour day.
Right.
So I was able to get to high ground
with the cell reception and get
a call out for the he company.
And I, they picked up the clients
at the, um, park boundary.
Mm.
So I loaded them in.
Then they were off.
So they're happy, happy aside from
the, uh, the extra expense of the
helicopter, but that's, uh, they're
happy and they would've liked
the heli drop on the way in too.
Right.
That was good.
Take away too.
Get the heli option.
Yes.
Both ways, right?
Not just, oh, by the way.
Hey, there is an alley option out of this.
If we need it and I could have done it
within and reach, cuz I often have the
chief pilots of every company on my end
reach mm-hmm and a lot of them like
Ben from, um, who's operation manager.
They're from shout out to Ben black home.
Helies um, black home
heli Squamish, Whistler.
Yep.
Um, he's in my end reach and he
said, all I need is a long lot
and I'll come get you anytime.
Nice.
Right.
And then Darren from black
Tuss, same, same sort of deal.
Yep.
You know, two great pilots and
they'll give 'em a long lot.
Worry about the finance after right?
Yeah.
You'll owe 'em and you come out.
So that's good.
Split the columns up the
communications right within your group.
Yeah.
Communicate the plan to everybody.
Split the columns up smart.
Um, Fire
warm.
Yeah.
Navigation, compass Teter last year,
24 hours.
Yeah.
And you're golden, you know, I, I find
a lot of people can go down the rabbit
hole of looking at survival gear and
I'll admit I've played with a whole,
a whole bunch of different types yeah.
In the past.
And I keep coming back to the basics.
It's, uh, it's neat.
It looks Gucci, but it's more
weight in your pack and it's, uh,
I found the heavier, my pack gets
the more likelihood I'm gonna find.
I'm gonna find myself needing
to use all that gear there.
Um, so being able to get through the night
and get to wherever you need to go, uh,
without overdoing all of the, uh, geeking
out on all the kit, I think is a smart,
it's smart.
And, um, you know, one thing we haven't
talked about is first aid, what level
of first aid kit you should have.
Right.
And I think it really comes down to
the basics like you should turnkey are.
The new fad right now.
Yeah.
They're all
using 'em
again.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've turn to key my kit.
Yeah.
Pocket mask.
Yeah.
Is, goes in my kit and, uh, Sams splint.
Yep.
Um, and that's kinda like the team element
and I have some couple major bleeds.
Yeah.
Um, just like AB
pads or.
You know, like trauma dressing,
kinda like head in the military and
then, you know, basic stuff after
that tape bandaids, um, which are
the ones that get used all the time.
Yeah.
And then I always tell people
they need a per small personal,
like, maybe you need blister kit.
Maybe you need like, maybe another
bit of tape, things like that.
So I'll keep it, maybe the team, like, I
don't think we need 10 turning keys out.
Mm-hmm we don't need 10 pocket mask.
Hopefully mm-hmm mm-hmm
so I try to do that.
Um, I know for myself, I've had
some medical problems in the past,
like, um, that HPI lower bacteria.
Yeah.
That was crazy.
Did a normal, my guts were ended
up with, um, eroding esophagus.
Loads of ulcers came the light on the
second trip to Natalie with the GI bleed.
Right, right.
So I carry one thing that
aggravates my tummy is.
Dehydrated food.
I love that you call it your tummy.
finished, finished term coming home.
My tummy chops.
Yeah.
But, um, due to this, to
the ulcers and things.
Yeah.
Like I've on like dehydrated
food is light mm-hmm right.
Socks, but it's light.
So short trips, we go
to that big expeditions.
We're gonna bring her more fresh
food for first couple weeks,
but I've even migrated now.
I know what my, my, my stomach, yes.
Not tell me.
um, appreciates.
It's I, I really, the only meal I
eat for dinner is Mac and cheese now.
Yeah.
Nothing wrong with Mac and cheese.
And it has the same calorie content,
a little bit more fat than the others.
Yeah.
Same protein.
And my system digested problems.
As soon as I start getting
in the lentils, the rice, the
meats, it aggravates my stomach.
So one thing in my own first
aid kit now is I carry.
Any acid pills.
Mm.
So for example, if I'm going
away on a trip, I start doing the
dosage and their prescription.
Okay.
So there's, I carry seven, yeah.
With me on expeditions and stuff.
But like, if I'm going away on a trip,
I'll start taking the anti acids prior,
maybe three, four days, get in the zone.
I have 'em there on the trip.
I'll take 'em during the trip.
Um, and I ensure that I won't
have any problems with my stomach.
Um, three years ago, for whatever
reason I started getting migraines.
Mm.
So, um, one thing with the ulcers, always,
I wasn't able to take ibuprofen for years.
Mm.
So now Tylenol doesn't do the same effect.
Right?
I bef works.
Ibuprofen works.
So my stomach, my tummy
is diligent enough.
Now that I can take ibuprofen a lot in
one dose, but I can't be on it regularly.
So this migraine that came up three
years ago, it knocked me out for.
In bed for seven days, I've
never had migraine in my life.
I've had two more attacks this spring.
Mm-hmm um, doing research, uh, who
knew, but like red wine is a migraine
in, um, cause and dark chocolate.
I think some people knew that.
Yeah.
And I actually, um, love red wine.
Yeah.
Don't drink it anymore.
Yeah.
Both times I've had it twice in
migraines in the spring, migraine bad.
And so now, um, I find long days
with dehydration will trigger
cuz a headache and a dehydration
headaches different than migraines.
Right.
But I keep.
Rapid migraine pills in
my first aid get too.
So any in inclination, like I can't
explain it more than like migraines, like
the back of your eyeballs start to hurt.
Yep.
There's pressure in different places.
Um, I just know when I'm having a
migraine attack and I actually had
one not too long ago, the next day
after, um, being out in the Alpine.
Mm.
Um, carrying in it's
different than a headache.
And I just, so I keep two of
those with the anti acid pills.
So these are my specialized first aid kit.
And that's dad.
That definitely helps with the comfort.
Um, no fun being out there in the
back country with migraines, I,
after, um, a car accident I was in,
they sent me to a pain doctor and
they were talking about managing
pain and, uh, um, ibuprofen works.
He says you don't chase the pain.
You hammer it.
Yeah.
When, when it comes on, if you feel
the migraine something coming on, you
don't just take one, you take two extra
strength, gel cab, Advils, and hammer.
If that doesn't work, do it again.
Yeah.
And then you, you can small updates as
you go through terrible on the stomach.
I'm sure.
Yeah.
But, um, but it manages a pain.
Yeah.
When you're, you know, I, um,
buddy Richmond fire, and he was
with a group number of years
ago and they did, uh, Denali.
They didn't get the summit
out of it, but, um, uh, he.
He was able to get morphine to,
uh, take out in up the mountain.
Is that something that, uh,
anyone's bringing up with him
just in case morphine pills?
Yeah.
Or, or did he have a
special clinic connection?
He probably did.
Maybe some paramedic gotcha.
Type level in that probably.
I think I knew it was connection.
Yeah.
Probably I was able to do it.
Okay.
I think that's probably, uh, a good now
you're, you're spending most of your time
in cold weather environments and I know
in, uh, In British Columbia here most in
Canada, most of the people who are gonna
be going out and enjoying the Bush who
are interested in, um, hunting or fishing.
And a lot of that's gonna be in the,
uh, the fall seasons or the spring
seasons when it's gonna be a bit colder.
But they're, uh, warmer does tend
to be easier in some respects.
So you don't have as much kit with
you, but there are other considerations
that you were talking about where
like dehydration, headaches.
Yeah.
Like for sure, like this summer
heat stroke, our cascades
were all high thirties.
Yeah.
On the, on the glacier.
And that's a different,
that's a different ke of fish.
Yeah.
Like knowing how to move on
glaciers or hot environment
and still move loose layers.
I'm all about the sun shirts now.
Long sleeve sun shirts.
BD makes a good one.
Yeah.
Outdoor research.
I had a, uh, a guy on, um, an intro
to mountain ear course, short sleeved.
Mm-hmm um, Day one snow
school, complete lobster.
And the day two, we took him
out to the Alpine and he was
just completely dehydrated.
One kid didn't have glacier glasses.
Right.
Didn't have any sunglasses two days.
Mm.
Right.
Things like that.
And they learned some really
valuable lessons yeah.
On this.
But yeah, like moving glaciers
is actually quite like in Denali.
It could be you're in a t-shirt
and then it's minus 30 that night.
Right.
So that's interesting too.
Now is the extreme changes.
Hmm.
Um, stuff.
And I were climbing inston and we
were trying to go really light.
We were was just the light over, over
bags, which were fine, but it was
getting so cold in the Alpine at night.
They had to go to our zero sleep bags and,
um, It's that sudden change and it usually
starts, I find, and I remember also being
in the, you know, canyon forces in Wayne
Wright August is that sudden change 30
during the day and then almost zero night.
Right.
And that's the change that I
find is actually I'm colder then.
And then I am minus 10, right?
15 in the winter camping.
Mm-hmm right.
It's that, that change in the system.
Yeah.
That's hard to
plan for.
Yeah.
It's a bit of a shock to the system,
plus the humidity in the air for
whatever reason when he gets down to.
Zero when it's humid out, it's it
feels colder when it's negative tan.
Well,
it's actually scientific cuz
people always say, oh, it's,
it's a wet cold and isn't right.
But there's actually science behind it.
Yeah.
That the humidity air, when
it's colder is actually colder.
I believe it, it actually has to do with
like, you know, we, we perspire yeah.
Will be cool.
Yeah.
And that's exactly what's
happening with their humid air.
So that's why people Winnipeg always say,
oh, you know, west coasts complaining
about the, you know, it's cold.
like my friend, um, posty came out to
spend, um, Christmas, 2003 in Edinburgh.
Yeah.
And, uh, she was an officer came
forces born in Ontario, maybe minus 15.
Yeah.
And it was maybe zero in Edinburgh.
Mm-hmm the windy Cindy
mm-hmm off the north Atlantic.
He had never been so cold.
Yeah.
At zero.
I believe it in Scotland, I
believe compared to being minus
15 and it was completely different
experience for her, you know?
So.
Yeah.
Well, why don't, uh, we look at wrapping
it up here, if there's anything else that,
uh, we should be talking about, I'm sure
the listeners will, uh, will write their
comments in and, um, and request it.
But I think those are sort of my main
things that I like to have with me.
The number one is my mindset, right.
And my mindset and survival attitude, like
what you're talking about, having the, um,
uh, taking the path of least resistance,
the safer path between the two, that's
something that I've had to learn and I'm
still working on still working on it.
I'm still working on option, right?
The safer option.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, and that's something that, uh,
you know, when you're young and dumb
and male ego and all the rest, right.
And I can do it and you
do, and you figure it out.
But that, that little threshold
there, that knife's blade that we tend
to walk on between life and death.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We are very robust, but
there is also a very.
And we aren't in some ways, right?
Yeah.
Um, I think those are the biggest things
that you can take away from a survival
mindset is the attitude and the mindset.
Then it comes down to communication.
Then it starts coming down to the
kit in the order that you gave
and to summarize, to summarize the final
point we didn't talk about is fitness.
Oh yeah.
Witness the fitness, right?
Yes.
So that's critical.
Mm.
Um, I discovered strength
training in my forties.
Right.
I wish I just did it in my thirties.
Right.
I didn't tell any of these young
guys, like, instead of working out
to look good strength training.
Right.
But that's so critical being able
to move fast through the train at a
safe speed limits, your exposure and
the impact on your body function.
You do this a long term.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, key three mountain guide up Whistler
was talking about, he must be in his
mid sixties and he's an examiner.
Hell ski guide still doing it,
but he was talking about the young
guys are gonna jump off the cliff.
Mm-hmm the older guys are
gonna ski around the cliff.
Still get to where you're going.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But as your older age, you're not
gonna be dropping off the cliff.
Mm you're.
Still skiing the slope.
Yeah.
You're not doing the big drop maybe.
So I still find little drops
but I'm not doing big drops.
Right, right.
So I think fitness is so critical.
You wanna be able to move fast,
limit your exposure and then you
don't become a counter to yourself.
Mm-hmm stroke, cold
injury and all that stuff.
Right.
So fitness is really critical.
Yeah.
Start small, go big.
Yeah.
Fitness.
I like it.
And it helps a mindset too.
Yeah.
Cause you can think.
And, and you know, like one I, one
trip I did with Brent fairy metals
hut and the very first day we went
off, Brent likes to get up set the
pace first day, we're doing this big,
um, big summit and I had the Arteri.
Um, AIE bag.
Yep.
And the tear Avy bag was nine pounds.
Mm.
Plus, all the guide gear I
got 30 plus pound bag now.
Mm-hmm and I came from sea level
mm-hmm we're up in the RO uh, Rogers
pass mm-hmm and I was exhausted
as the second guide on this trip.
And luckily I packed a 30 leader,
Arteric alpha, um, Alpine bag.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I could barely get all my guide
kit in it, but yes, I'm limiting
myself for being in avalanche.
Yep.
But I have more energy to make
conscious correct decisions.
I'm more physically in like robustly
can lead up front break trail.
Yep.
And, um, you know, I was just mentally
there mm-hmm you know, so that's
this big debate about the Avie bag?
I, I own two Avy bags, maybe three.
But , there's a time and a place for
it, like ski and I have a Avi bag
and I have a touring bag for when
the conditions storm indicate to it.
Mm.
But I mean, we could talk
about this on another podcast.
Sure.
And there is podcasts about it.
Yeah.
About Avie bag, not AIE bag
and the mindset with it.
Mm-hmm but there is a, there
was a time there, like I just
ditched eight pounds right away.
Made a huge difference
for the rest of the trip.
Yeah.
And
that mindset, well, fitness, like you
were saying before, huge changes, how
you changes, how you make decisions,
changes the outcome of your day.
And the reliance on kit is one of
those things, relying on a nav bag.
Well, that's extra weight and I'm
going slow, relying on all the cool
kit that you found at the store.
Um, I, I think really when it comes down
to, uh, wilderness survival mindset, um,
communications, like, like you were saying
there, having enough, proper equipment
to survive, not necessarily being, living
in the lap of luxury while you're there.
Yeah.
And that changes like
Squamish, a windbreaker mm.
Is enough for the night.
Yeah.
But as we move into fall, then you
start, you know, your micro fleece and
then mm-hmm, move into your puffy.
But going to the Rockies right
now, I'm, I'm bringing puffy
pants and a puffy jacket.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Spare gloves and everything else.
So you just gotta do your
homework, get the information.
It comes back to that.
Uncertainty, you know, get more
info, increase your margin of safety.
Awesome.
Jace, thanks very much for coming
on the Silvercore Podcast, time.
Number four, number four, looking
forward to time's handshake.
I do too, right on brother.