Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
What do you do when the bottom drops out and life breaks in ways you never imagined? Charlie and Jill LeBlanc have walked that road, and through their personal story of loss, they’ve discovered the sustaining power of God's presence. In this podcast, they offer heartfelt conversations, Scripture-based encouragement, and the kind of hope that only comes from experience. Whether you're grieving, struggling, or searching for peace in the middle of chaos, this space is for you.
Hey, everyone. Happy Tuesday. Thanks for joining us.
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah. Thanks for being back with us. We have an awesome, episode coming up with John Tesh, an interview that he did with us actually. And it's actually the second part, so if you haven't seen the first part, please go back and watch the first part. It'll really bless you.
Charlie LeBlanc:But we're excited to present this second part to you right now, so God bless. Enjoy it.
John Tesh:So Jill and Charlie, I'm interested in knowing how when your friends, and you had many of them, friends, you know, other family members, when you were going through this, how did they react to you?
Jill LeBlanc:Different ones were, it's kind of interesting because some people would would just act like nothing ever happened. And they would try to maybe they were uncomfortable talking about our loss to us, and so they would say, "Oh, I heard you had a grandson. Isn't that something? You had a grandson."
John Tesh:Oh my gosh. Wow.
Charlie LeBlanc:It's almost like, don't think about yourself.
John Tesh:Oh my god. I just get yeah. You gave me chills. It's terrible.
Jill LeBlanc:Yep. They would they would either do that or they would just try to talk about everything else except this. Yeah. Or they would say, so how you doing? Tell me how you're doing.
Jill LeBlanc:And I'm like, I don't really wanna talk about I mean, I wouldn't say this, but on the inside, I'm like, I don't really wanna talk about this to you right now. I mean, this is really deep and heavy and, you know, it's just not the time and you're not the person. And, you know, some people, they really care, but they just don't know how to.
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah. And you know, which is why this book is tremendous. I don't know a book like this where it really is, and we'll talk about this, really is the rules of engagement. But I'm interested in knowing too, how did how did people react to your surviving children?
Jill LeBlanc:You know, that's interesting. Many siblings, people that lose a sibling, oftentimes people will they they won't look at that as a prime as a major loss. It's like a secondary loss.
John Tesh:No.
Jill LeBlanc:Because they'll go to the sibling like, "Oh, how are your parents?"
Jill LeBlanc:You know, they won't necessarily acknowledge it to the sibling because it's a major loss for many siblings to lose their brother or sister. And this carries on even into older ages. Like we were talking to someone I was talking to someone recently that their sibling, I think they were in their fifties. And, you know, to some people that's like really old. It's not that old anymore to me, but, you know?
Jill LeBlanc:So when I was younger and would hear of someone dying in their fifties, I would think, oh gosh. Well, they were they were old anyway. But some people that they're in their fifties or sixties and they lose a sibling, and that's devastating to them. Because to them, that was their brother or their sister who they were so close with, but other people don't they don't recognize that write off if they haven't walked through it. That and our daughters were much younger.
Jill LeBlanc:They were all in their twenties when our son passed. And it just, you know, their closest friends were sensitive to it because they were also friends of our son. Most people didn't send comfort and sympathy and compassion to our daughters for them as much as they always asked about us and how we were doing. And that always made me sad.
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah. I think we added an example in the book where we have some close friends that lost their father, this one couple. And so, you know, they lost him and they were just broken, our friend and his wife. And he had lost his father, she had lost her father-in-law who she was really close to and loved him like a father. And so the pain of that loss is there.
Charlie LeBlanc:People are coming to the son and saying, you know, we love you.
Jill LeBlanc:And the father was pastor of a church.
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah. Pastor of a church and and his son actually took it over. But it's kinda like she told us, the the the son, daughter-in-law told came to us and she said she said, you know, people are always coming to me and saying, "How's your husband?" You know?
Charlie LeBlanc:Or, "How's your mother-in-law?" But she said, no one was acknowledging the fact I lost my father-in-law and and I loved him. He was and actually, she was from a broken family. And so she she looked to him like a dad. So there was just I think these people are missing where there are people hurting all in a lot of different places when there's a loss.
Charlie LeBlanc:And we really need to be sensitive to to all those little places like a a daughter-in-law, you know, a brother, a sister, a distant cousin. You know, we to be honest, we were hurting so bad that we weren't aware of it even. I mean, we were just so hurting. We didn't realize that both cousins and my sisters and brothers were hurting. My mom and dad were hurting.
Charlie LeBlanc:And, you know, I think it's just really important, and we put a lot of that in the book, just to be aware of of all the the the pain that goes out and and to just be aware of that so that you can love each other and help each other. And and I want might wanna add something else that was very interesting with our own family, with our two daughters. It was interesting because they were like, I hope mom and dad are okay. So they're like, when we'd get together, they would be like, you know, they'd be really super sweet and but they they wouldn't talk about Beau. This is the beginning stages.
Charlie LeBlanc:Wouldn't talk about Beau because they were they were even afraid to, like, bring it up so that they didn't want us to start grieving or crying or whatever. And in the same way, we were approaching them like, oh, we don't wanna don't wanna bring up Beau to hurt them, you know, to get them on in a bad place. So it was like this weird thing, you know. And so finally, we just all we just talked. We said, listen. It's the elephant in the room. We we all have this pain. We all have this loss. Let's just talk about it. And we did and we enjoyed it.
Charlie LeBlanc:And today, it's very easy to just talk about Beau, remember nice things about him, share moments. And it's just I think that that was something that we we had to we learned pretty quickly, but but it was something that we put in the book and we all need to learn how to that that that elephant in the room, like Jill was saying a minute ago, you know, people would come up and, you know, why don't they just say, you know, I can't imagine what it's like to lose Beau. He was such a beautiful young man. We loved him so much and we miss him, but I can't imagine how you do, you know. That just touches us so deeply.
Charlie LeBlanc:People are afraid to mention his name because they're afraid they're gonna bring it up and you're gonna get back in the grief. And it's like you realize that when you lose a son or you lose the one you really love, they're on your mind all the time. So it's not like you're gonna you bringing them up, it's not gonna, you know, cause me to go into any new grief or anything. Hey, it blesses us.
Charlie LeBlanc:It helps us. And so, you know, John, I was sharing this same idea. And of course it's in the book with a pastor. And the pastor was interviewing us and he said, Charlie, after I read your book, he said, I'm actually gonna be a better pastor now because for all the people that are losing their loved ones in my church, he said, now he says, I feel like I have more empowerment now to be able to go and minister to them and say their son's name, say their husband's name, you know, and it say their name. That's just a real important thing.
Charlie LeBlanc:We love to hear, our son's name. And, yeah, you say, well, you don't wanna hurt them. There's a little sting, of course.
John Tesh:Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc:But it's okay. You remember them so you want you wanna talk about them. It's really true.
John Tesh:Yeah. You know, we've had the, we've had advice on the on the radio show before about about dealing with well, how how to talk to people who are who are grieving. And every time we do something like that, the advice comes from a psychologist or a psychotherapist. And so this this to me right now, this moment with you guys, I realized, I had the revelation that, okay, so that stuff's coming out of their experience talking to people or out of a book or out of their training that they that that they got. Bless their hearts, as my mom would say.
John Tesh:But you guys came right out of bunker. I mean, you came you were you were fully engaged, not only with the enemy, but with the grief. And also with people who again, you know, they they don't have any training as to none of us have any training as to how to talk to people who are grieving. It's like then you feel guilty, you know, being yeah. Like, oh, having bad feelings about about those people.
John Tesh:So one of my favorite parts, it might even be my favorite part of the book, is is your rules of engagement. And again, this book is called When Loss Comes Comes Close to Home. And when you go to chapter 14, it's right here, rules of engagement and it's your orders that soldiers definition, orders that soldiers fighting in a war are given about what they can and cannot do. And so rule number one that you guys wrote down here, it's rules of engagement with people who are grieving. Right?
John Tesh:So is love them. What does that look like?
Charlie LeBlanc:Well, you know, we the Bible says to weep with those who weep and rejoice with those who rejoice. And so too often as Christians, we feel like we have to fix people, Christian or non Christian. If someone's hurting, you wanna fix them. I have an answer. I have a solution for you.
Charlie LeBlanc:You know? And that's a great heart and everything, but some things just need time to be healed. This in particular, a loss like this, it's just gonna take some time. And, and so the Bible says to weep with those who weep. So to us, love looked like people that served us.
Charlie LeBlanc:I don't wanna say served us, but came to us and helped us get through those first time, bringing us food, you know, offering to help us around the house. Love was with us.
Charlie LeBlanc:They were patient with us.
Charlie LeBlanc:Exactly.
Jill LeBlanc:You know?
Charlie LeBlanc:You mentioned Andrew and Jamie Womack, you know, they're great you know, Andrew's an amazing Bible teacher, And yet, you know, you'd have thought he would have sat me down and said, Charlie, this scripture says scripture scripture scripture scripture. But, no, he loved us. And and I have to say that, you know, we've been leading worship for Andrew for over twenty years and I have to say that the love that him and Jamie have showed us in the last fifteen years after losing Beau, the patience, like Jill said, the patience they had with us. When others were saying, Charlie and Jill need to get over this, you know, it's time for them to grow up and mature and get over this. Well, they didn't experience losing a son, so what can they speak on it?
Charlie LeBlanc:But Jamie and Andrew had the maturity enough to just love us, and they allowed us to begin to lead worship in their meetings even when they knew that we were still hurting.
John Tesh:Right.
Charlie LeBlanc:In fact, there were sometimes we would lead worship and then go back to our hotel room and get on the phone with our daughters and just weep and just talk and visit. And they never, never condemned us or said, you need to be on that front row if you're gonna lead worship, as an example to the people. They never did. And then we graduated from the hotel room to sitting in the back of the auditorium after we left the churches. And then we graduated to the front I graduated to the front row.
Charlie LeBlanc:I had the heart and the strength to sit, and then Jill eventually did. And there's another whole story there. There's a lot of testimonies there. But but I just wanna say love, you know, just people that were patient with us, that loved us, that didn't try to fix us, and I have a story about that too, but we can get to that later.
John Tesh:Okay. So number one rule of engagement for talking to people who have gone through and and again, it's could be losing a child. It could be losing a best friend. A lot of people feel extreme grief from losing an animal because they you know, animals become a life witness for us and and it's it's very hard to to to say to say goodbye. So number two is don't judge.
Charlie LeBlanc:That's good. I like that. Whoever wrote that, that was good.
John Tesh:I was gonna say I was gonna say, didn't you write this? Whose book is this?
Charlie LeBlanc:You you comment on that, not judging. You know, it's like such a big deal.
Jill LeBlanc:Yeah. You know, it's like what we were saying that, you know, we would kinda catch word through the grapevine that, you know, people were talking behind our backs and saying the things like, you know, I can't believe Charlie and Jill are still, you know, just still so sad all the time and and still grieving after so long. And, you know, they should be over it by now. And, you know--
John Tesh:People are actually saying this? I mean, they they overheard people saying this?
Jill LeBlanc:That's what we've heard.
John Tesh:Oh, wow.
Charlie LeBlanc:We didn't hear, but we heard.
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Alright. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc:And so it's you just don't know what's going on in the inside of a person. And, you know, like with me, I like I said, I was in autopilot in, you know, leading worship for quite a while. And then just as I continued to take baby steps forward, the Lord would meet me there. And he didn't judge me because he saw my heart. He knew our pains, you know, he knew where we were at.
Jill LeBlanc:And so he just gently walked along with us, but other people couldn't see how patient the Lord was with us, but they thought that we should, you know, be further along by now. And so you just you know, sometimes grieving people, we address this in the book. You know, they they can be you know, I use the word 'verklempt' in the book.
John Tesh:Yeah.
Jill LeBlanc:We have a chapter called "Veklempt" because grieving people, they act kind of veklempt, at least early on.
Charlie LeBlanc:It's a Yiddish word.
Jill LeBlanc:It's a Yiddish word for meaning that someone is just kind of out of sorts. And, you we were that way for a while, and and people get that way for for a while. And in some ways, it can change you forever, but, you just you just kinda become a bit dysfunctional and and so people judge that.
John Tesh:I think a lot of people feel, reading the book too, I mean, I think a lot of people feel like you should just go back to the person- you're not the same person. Right?
Jill LeBlanc:Right. No.
Charlie LeBlanc:You're not. Yeah. Right.
Jill LeBlanc:Oh, gosh. It's like a part of you has been cut off, really.
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc:It's like the CS Lewis example with the the peg leg. He said, you know, the person who has his leg amputated, you know, he he wakes up every morning and puts that prosthetic on. And so, know, he may look like he's walking fine, but he'll never forget that that there.
Charlie LeBlanc:And so, you know, you do get better. You know, you get stronger by the grace of God. You you you know, Jesus heals the broken heart. The Bible says he's close to those who who have a broken heart. So he heals broken hearts and he does comfort those whom who mourn, but you never forget.
Charlie LeBlanc:And so back to your thing about judging, you know, people just in general, the Bible says, judge not lest you be judged. And so we should never judge someone when they're going through a difficult time. So you've been through a divorce, you know, people right away start think- judging people in their recovery.
John Tesh:Right.
Charlie LeBlanc:Whatever it is, you just, we as believers, as Christians, as good human beings should never be judging others. We should just let people love them and let God, you know, help them.
John Tesh:Right.
Charlie LeBlanc:Help them.
John Tesh:Yeah. Rule number three, and and I need help with this, is allow the griever to talk when they're ready. How do you know when they're ready?
Jill LeBlanc:Well, you just kind of listen, and you let them kind of drive the ship, if you will. Just if they're if they're start talking about you know, like, friend of ours lost her husband a couple of years ago, and, you know, she was just she was just you know, even though he was ill for a long time, the death still came kind of suddenly. And and she just didn't wanna talk with everyone she knew about it all the time. And until later, she, you know, just after time, she she got to where she was okay to to mention things. And and so you would hear her bring bring his name up and and just mention different things about the journey.
Jill LeBlanc:And, so you just kinda have to be sensitive. You know, we talk about this in the book, you know, in that particular rule and in other places too. You just, you just be sensitive. Don't just just barge in and say, how are you doing? Because you're sincere and and you care, but when you ask that question, it just takes them right back to to why they're at this place. You know?
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah. I I'm sorry. Go ahead.
Jill LeBlanc:People would ask us that. Like, how are you doing? And I would have been, you know, maybe, you know, not thinking about it for that moment. And all of a sudden, I'm thinking about it again. I'm thinking about the fact that my son died because someone just asked how I'm doing.
Jill LeBlanc:Right. You know? So you just kinda have to follow their lead a little bit. And and, if they bring it up and start talking, then, you know, the door is open.
John Tesh:Right. Right. You know, it's it's go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc:John, I'm sorry. But if I could say something else that's very important in this particular thing, it doesn't answer that question exactly. But when someone does start talking about their pain and their loss, It's so important to just listen. Listen. Listening is so powerful.
Charlie LeBlanc:And, you know, Jill and I, we've had a loss of a son. We know what it's like. We know a lot, as we put in the book, of things that helped us and things that didn't. But when someone walks up to us and says they've lost their child and they start telling us about what happened, it's we're so tempted in any conversation. We're in any type of conversation, we're all as human beings tempted to do this, but we're so tempted to go, yeah, I know.
Charlie LeBlanc:And when we lost Bo, this happened, this happened, you know. But, man, I'll tell you, the Holy Ghost just says, listen. People who are grieving, they so desperately just need to, they just need to pour out their heart. They just need to talk. And that's something even today, we had a lady come to us and start telling us all about her loss of her son, how the book has really, really helped her to come out of her grief.
Charlie LeBlanc:And actually, it was, it helped her to begin to grieve because she was afraid to grieve before. And as a result of grieving, she's beginning to heal.
John Tesh:Right.
Charlie LeBlanc:But but my point in saying this, and this happened yesterday at the end of the conference, another person came to us and told us about losing their son. But you have to restrain yourself because you wanna say, I know because blah blah blah, you know.
Charlie LeBlanc:But what's most healing to them is listening. It's not, yeah, I know because blah blah blah, you know. And that's kind of a rule in life that we need to really learn. It's not when someone's telling us, hey, man, yesterday I had this this miracles, this great thing happened.
Charlie LeBlanc:We said, oh, yeah. When I did this, it happened to me. Well, wait a minute. You just stole their thunder. You know what I'm saying?
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc:So it's kind of a rule of life. And so especially when someone's hurting and grieving, just just listen. Be a good listener. That's one segment in our book as well, just the power of just being present and listening to someone who's hurting.
John Tesh:Yeah. Yeah. Jill, Jill, you made me smile before because it you know, listen, on a much different scale when I was diagnosed with what the doctors called thought was terminal cancer. Right? Connie was very very good about protecting me from other people because we had learned Proverbs 18:21, death and life are in the power of the tongue.
John Tesh:And so we didn't want anybody's tongue speaking death over me. We said these are really close friends who would come over, you know, after like four or five surgeries and and you know, two rounds of chemo and I'm at a dinner party with them and and they would come over and they would just they would look me right in the eyes and go, how are you? You know? And it was it was like what I heard, right, what I heard was, how many more minutes do you have to live? You know?
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah, exactly. I don't wanna go- I'm listening. I don't wanna read I don't wanna make my story bigger than yours, but obviously, but I, that thing, it really, really resonated with me.
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah.
John Tesh:Yeah.
Charlie LeBlanc:And Jill had one.
John Tesh:Go ahead.
Charlie LeBlanc:I'm sorry. Go ahead. No. Finish.
John Tesh:Yeah. No. I was I was just gonna I was getting going on to the next rule of engagement.
Charlie LeBlanc:Well, let me just say this too that there was a precious pastor friend of ours that walked up to Jill. It's about three months after Beau passed, and just looked at her and said, you're doing good? You're doing good? How are you doing? You're doing good?
Charlie LeBlanc:And Jill just looked at him and went, she said, no. Yeah. I'm not doing good. She goes, I just lost my son. And he went, oh, oh, oh, praise well, praise the lord. Hallelujah. Okay. Amen. It just kinda skipped a sit you know, stuttered and-
John Tesh:Sometimes sometimes it has-
Charlie LeBlanc:Don't mess with Jill in these situations.
John Tesh:No. I got you. She and Connie are very much where it's like it's really it's interesting that we're, you know, we're talking about this because I know, you know, a big ministry for you with, you know, with this book is to use what you went through losing your son as the cornerstone to help people in all areas. And when we talk about grief, you know, I was, I was grieving when I was going again, let's talk about me.
John Tesh:When I was when- you're going through the cancer treatment, all the rest of the stuff, and and you know, lost a kidney and had the you know, I mean, all kinds of stuff. Right? It's it's it you know, you're a different person. Right? I mean, you're you become a different person because you-
John Tesh:Things don't work the same way and you're looking at maybe not so much of a future and all you know, and all the rest of that stuff. And so when people come up, it still happens to me when people come up to me and they'll just go, wow, you look great. What else could that mean?
Charlie LeBlanc:What else could that mean?
John Tesh:Right. What else could that mean? I know. So so this I mean, this is the handbook for how to talk to people and when they're going through I mean grief could well who is it? Victor Franco who wrote Man's Search for Meaning. He, you know, the holocaust survivor. You know, he said that you know, it's you know, grief is like suffering rather. Suffering is like a gas. It completely fills the vessel that it inhabits. So it can be again, it could be, you know, losing whatever, losing your vitality, you know, losing your purpose in life. We're grieving all of that, and you address all of that in here.
Jill LeBlanc:That was such a great interview with John, and I just wanted to reiterate how crucial it is to remember with your your friend, your loved one who has lost someone really special. It it was huge for us and still is to this day. When I hear people talk about our son and, you know, something really special about him, it it just after sixteen years, it makes me tear up. It just hits me in such a special place. So remember your friends and loved ones as they walk through all the seasons, all the holidays, Christmas, their birthday, Thanksgiving, all of these family holidays, Father's Day, Mother's Day, they're so hard once you've been through this kind of a loss. So, just keep keep your friend in mind, your loved one, and can just keep reaching out to them. It'll mean the world to them.
Charlie LeBlanc:Yeah. And may I add just a little something that just from a practical standpoint, we actually put on our calendar reminders because we have so many friends who have lost dearest loved ones. So we put reminders and when we remember and we'll give them a little text or send them a card in the mail in advance. So, I just appreciate that so much. So, we hope you enjoyed it.
Charlie LeBlanc:Share this with others, and we'll look forward to the next, we're gonna finish it up on the next time, yeah, the rest of this interview. So God bless you and thanks for watching.