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A podcast focusing on the perspectives, lives, and stories of Kansans to provide greater insight into the state we all call home.
AAK_Ep30
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[00:00:00]
Sydney Collins: So I came across this TikTok and it is the greatest thing on the face of the planet because it's not what you expect before you click. So before we click play, it's uh, POV. You're at your first Midwest wedding, and this is the quote sendoff. Now, I don't know what kind of men what, where in the Midwest this is.
I don't. This is, this is not a thing. If you look at the comments, it's people from every state going, this is definitely not in Wisconsin. This is definitely not in Nebraska. This is definitely not Oklahoma. So like, I don't know where this is at.
Gus Applequist: Okay.
Sydney Collins: But it is hilarious. Okay, so here you go.
What? If you are listening to this, it is everyone, every man at this wedding party [00:01:00] with his pants around his ankles.
Gus Applequist: And then all of the men in the background also with their
Sydney Collins: Yes. It, it is apparently a sendoff where you just drop your pants and you, and you dance.
Gus Applequist: Yeah.
Midwest Wedding Traditions
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Gus Applequist: I was, I was at my nephew's wedding, this past Saturday, and that was not observed.
That was not a, yeah. A thing that we did. So interesting. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Um, I'm guess here, here's what's funny. I'm guessing your significant
Gus Applequist: other glad that the, that the wedding's so over. Yeah. That is not
Sydney Collins: a thing. The wedding's over, that's not a thing.
High School Theater Shenanigans
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Sydney Collins: Um, but here's what's funny is I don't, I doubt they still do this, but at South High, um, in the theater department, when you are done with a show after striking everything, and it's like midnight, you're all loopy.
You have a bunch of high schoolers. We would all strip down to our underwear and run through. Yes, this was a thing, this was a tradition. The dudes would be in their boxers and girls would be in sports brass and shorts. Something
Gus Applequist: [00:02:00] tells me this doesn't happen anymore. Oh, this probably does
Sydney Collins: not happen anymore.
I'd be very surprised. But they, we would run through the arts wing and do laps around the arts wing, and then that was our, that was our, when you knew stuff was over,
Gus Applequist: things were a little different Across town at Central.
Yeah. I definitely don't remember anything like that happening.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. That was, that was a thing.
Gus Applequist: Well, now I've learned a lot more about South, so,
Sydney Collins: and about somewhere in the Midwest that just drops their pants and dances. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: I mean, why not?
Sydney Collins: Why not? The best part is if you look close enough, they had custom boxers with either the bride or the groom's face on them.
With little hearts. That
Gus Applequist: is so much commitment.
Sydney Collins: That's a lot of commitment. Wow.
Wedding Gifts and Games
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Sydney Collins: I will say, um, uh, for my friend Rachel, who's getting married in a couple weeks, um, she, we got her a Miu with her husband soon to be husband's [00:03:00] face all over it with little hearts too. So it didn't come in in time for the bachelorette party, so I'm just gonna give it to her.
So wedding present, it's great.
Gus Applequist: My wedding present, I give all new couples. Getting married is uh, a copy of the game. Sushi go. You know this because I gave you a copy of the game Sushi Go. You did
Sydney Collins: give us a copy of Sushi
Gus Applequist: Go and if you got it too, it's just what I do. It's a good game. You should check it out.
Good
Sydney Collins: game.
Introduction to the Podcast
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Sydney Collins: Welcome to as a Kansan,
Gus Applequist: a podcast connecting, amplifying, and Uncovering Kansas.
Sydney Collins: And I am Sydnee.
Gus Applequist: And I'm Gu.
Meet Rachel Stroller of the Land Institute
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Sydney Collins: so today we have a great guest on it is Rachel Stroller. She's the president of the Land Institute. if you don't know what [00:04:00] the Land Institute is, it is a, uh, nonprofit, um, actually here in Salina.
But they do a lot of amazing things globally, which is amazing. a lot of people, even in Salina Dunno what the Land Institute is.
Gus Applequist: Their focuses are on like some of the biggest. Things, humanity faces. Yes. So it's pretty, it's an honor to have her on the podcast today. Mm-hmm. She was recently, uh, in New York.
She talks about that a little bit. And, she's, she's the kind of person that's, that gets quoted in the Wall Street Journal and in, or in, you know, Washington Post. Like, she's, she's an important person in Kansas that more Kansans need to know. Yep. Hence the reason why she's on Ask of Cancer.
Sydney Collins: So, without any further ado, here is our conversation with Rachel.
Um, for our audience, can you introduce yourself for us?
Rachel Stroer: Sure. Um, I'm Rachel Stroer, I am the president of the Land Institute here in Salina, and I was born and raised here. Excited to be representing a Kansan. Yeah. Today myself. That's awesome. [00:05:00] Well, perfect.
Sydney Collins: Um, and you're in Leewood now, right?
I do. I live in Leewood. Awesome. Mm-hmm. Um, what, give us kind of your background, kind of what led you to the Land Institute?
Rachel Stroer: I'll try to keep it as short as possible. So I grew up in Salina, um, grew up definitely with an environmental ethic. Um, my father was a landowner and sort of conservationist.
Um, and so I spent a lot of time as a child, um, helping recreate a prairie on the land that he had purchased just north of town, outside of Minneapolis, Kansas. and so I kind of have had this ethic. I went away to college, uh, New York City. I did that for six or seven years. Um, had a short stop at a Master's of Fine Arts program.
I was a dancer growing up. Oh, wow. And interested in the arts. And so I took a minute to consider an MFA [00:06:00] quickly decided that, that that wasn't for me, and then turned into sort of sustainability environmental. Stuff as the line of thinking that I, and, and sort of trajectory I wanted to take my career on.
Um, ended up in Kansas City working for a sustainable architecture firm called BNIM. Um, and my mentor there, Bob Bile, was part of the same sort of sustainability beginnings of sustainability in the, in the seventies with Wes Jackson. Oh, okay. The co-founder of the Land Institute. And so they knew each other well, had the opportunity to kind of touch base with Wes, um, in my work with Bob in the architecture firm, got my MBA, did other things, and ultimately had a kid and did the thing that you do when you have a kid, you move home.
Mm-hmm. Um, because it's hard and you need help. And so there's a built in, uh, community to [00:07:00] help with that little family and moved here and wasn't sure what I was gonna do, but, um. Knew that I wanted to do something big, and I felt like a lot of the work I had done in sustainability felt a, it was very grassroots, kind of community redevelopment type stuff.
And there was this much bigger problem that felt like it couldn't be solved, um, at that scale. And what I liked about, and was attracted to at the Land Institute was the fact that the solution is this sort of radical transformational thing of really fixing the root, unintended of the problem of agriculture.
Mm-hmm. Um, by bringing this natural ecosystem kind of perspective back to our food producing system. So that's why I ended up at the Land Institute. Wes and Tim Cruise hired me to help bring on a, a new project, sort of [00:08:00] institutionalize a new project, um, in 2015. And it's been great. It's been wonderful
The Mission of the Land Institute
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Sydney Collins: for, um, maybe audience members who've have never heard of the Land Institute.
Can you kind of give them the, the spiel?
Rachel Stroer: So, um, my soundbite is always that the Land Institute is giving humanity a chance of sustaining ourselves on this planet for the long term future. So agriculture has been in the making for the last 10 or 12,000 years. We would like it to sustain our species for the next 10 or 12,000 years.
And right now it's not on that trajectory. Um, and the way that we've approached that problem is to look to nature and say, well, how does nature, you know, how did nature sustain human life and other life for hundreds of thousands of years before agriculture? And when you look at nature, you see that it features [00:09:00] mostly perennial plants growing in diverse mixtures.
And our, when you look at our agriculture, it features mostly annual plants that die or can't produce, uh, a fruit for more than one year. And mostly grown in monocultures. So we, we know it in Kansas, vast swaths of wheat, or I saw some milo this morning. Um, uh, for acres and acres and acres of the same, same thing.
So you have this contrast between what nature did to build the soils that we eat from and what our current agriculture system does. So the perennial polyculture or diverse perennial eco agro ecosystem of nature versus the annual monoculture system of our current agriculture. And what the Land Institute is trying to do is convert this.
Into a nature based system that is perennial and diverse so that the way that we feed ourselves can actually rebuild soil and [00:10:00] steward resources and not be an end game for, for supporting our species as it is today. So
Sydney Collins: Land Institute is technically a nonprofit, but can you speak to how big of a community the Land Institute is?
Like you're not, yes. You're here in Salina, but you guys have grown into other, I think, countries, if I'm correct. Yeah. So can you speak to a little bit about that?
Rachel Stroer: so the Land Institute is getting ready to celebrate our 50th anniversary in 2026 and, um, is over that course of time, has spent most of that time really focused here in Celine County in the Midwest.
trying to develop these perennial grain crops. And in the last probably 10 or 15 years, um, there has been a lot more success in that endeavor and a lot more attention globally on this idea of perennial grain crops [00:11:00] and ecologically intensified cropping systems as a possibility. And so scientists started calling and we started answering.
And, uh, just this last march, um, we had a convening of our partners, um, from all over the globe. Uh, it was in Mexico, co-hosted by the Land Institute and a Global crops, uh, center called Simit, uh, which is an acronym for words that I don't know because it's in a different language. Um, and they, um, we had a total of 95 researchers.
Oh, wow. At that, uh, meeting. From 25 countries and from 40 plus different institutions. Um, many of them were from the Land Institute, but also from all those other representative groups. Um, and that wasn't even the full breadth of the researchers that we work for. So we don't employ those people, but we collaborate with them [00:12:00] and they contribute their expertise and time to the work of developing these perennial grain crops.
That's amazing. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: There's a quote that, uh, we often hear based on who we work with here in Salina. Yeah. Uh, attributed to Wes, where he says, if you're not planting things that you, I can't
Rachel Stroer: please if you're Yeah. I think I know what it is. Mm-hmm. Um, it is, if your life's work can be accomplished in your lifetime, you're not thinking big enough.
Gus Applequist: That's such a kind of mm-hmm. A heavy thing to hear. And I think for most people that aren't working in, in a field, like when you work in I mean like us, we make videos, you know, and we like to see our videos completed in our lifetime. Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Very much true.
Gus Applequist: So what is it like, how do you, how do you keep energy, uh, as an organization with such a lofty goal?
Rachel Stroer: Yeah, that's a good question. There's, you know, and I work [00:13:00] with these scientists who have committed their life's work their entire career to one species and they won't likely finish. Um, and they do it anyway. And there's something really beautiful about the continuity and sort of patience of that. I think it also helps that we do have had successes.
So there have been sort of milestones for a long time. We're trying to pro prove this genetic, biological thing could happen where you could have high yielding robustly, perennial, you could have big seeds and deep roots at the same time. We think now evide all evidence is pointing to, yes, you can do that.
So there are these kind of, um, there are milestones that get met in your lifetime. Um, the goal is big enough. I mean, we're talking about 2.7 billion acres of global grain agriculture that I, I can't even wrap my head around that. Right. [00:14:00] And the idea is that I, you know, as much as possible of that, a majority of that be transitioned over the next a hundred years into systems that feed people and function like a natural ecosystem.
we, you, you know, but it all happens in baby steps. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you get to celebrate. You know, the, the podcast level achievements. But then, you know, like when you look back over the course of your career, you might say, oh, look at this cannon of work we created.
Gus Applequist: Hmm.
Sydney Collins: with your leadership in, in, you've been there for probably 10 plus years. Mm-hmm. Right? Mm-hmm. Um, are there strategic shifts that you implemented, um, as a leader [00:15:00] to try to help get to those goals and mm-hmm. Um, like were they successful? What did you learn from them
Rachel Stroer: so
I've been at the organization for 11 years, or almost 11 years, and have been president for four, maybe. and what we have. The sort of change that's happened within the organization has been a change to this more collaborative and even proactively collaborative approach.
Whereas before some of the genetic milestones were achieved and some of the preliminary sort of beta crops were created, like kernza mm-hmm. Which you've probably heard of, um, before those successes has hap had happened, we were sort of heads down, you know, proving this here in Salina, trying to get the geneticists to work on it, get the plant breeders to convince these crops to be perennial and [00:16:00] high yielding or higher yielding crop like characteristics.
Um, and now we still need to sort of continue doing that, but now that we know it's a viable thing. We now need to build up the skill to help support those 95 or 200 plus researchers all over the globe who want to get involved. We have to even, even more sort of create the foundational innovations and prototypes that we then share with those people, and then enables them to carry the work forward in their regions and in their places.
Um, and so I think that's been the biggest change, has been acting and functioning and really living into this idea that we are hosting a collective rather than heads down proving a possibility. Mm-hmm.
Sydney Collins: so at Feely, we've had. A really great opportunity to do a couple different videos, vastly different from [00:17:00] different parts of the Landons too. One of them being, um, kind of an outreach, almost, kind of learning opportunities for high schoolers was mm-hmm. Was the most current one. Can you tell me a little bit more about like, how you're educating people who have zero idea?
Like what's, what's the goal behind it? What's your team actively doing? Um, anything along those lines.
Rachel Stroer: Yeah. quite a bit. I mean mm-hmm. Creating educational, um, um, content, content and modules that can be shared with high school teachers or, um, or other educators to help just incorporate this idea of perenniality into our understanding of agriculture.
And it oftentimes requires. Teaching people first about agriculture, because I think we're more in touch with agriculture in Kansas and in Salina than in some, I mean, [00:18:00] we just, were in New York City a couple weeks ago. We're a New York Climate week, which is one of the ways we educate people about, about this work.
but in a city, people are far more disconnected from where their food comes from. And given our global food system, so much of our food doesn't come from next door. even if we're growing it, it doesn't come from next door. So, um, yeah, we, we think about that and we play a role in educating, I think just the public about what agriculture is, what it, it's sort of resilience or lack thereof under current practices and what the opportunities are.
To get beyond, we have especially, um, focused. In fact, one of the themes in our, in our international meeting last March was, uh, this idea of early career researchers being really important thing that the Land Institute has actually [00:19:00] developed for a very long time, for probably the last 30 or 40 years.
There was an internship program when the, when the, when the organization started, there was an a fellows program and a graduate fellows program, a short course where we had the scientists teaching, you know, up and coming geneticists and plant breeders about this concept of perenniality. and many of those people who were engaged in the, the Land Institute Graduate Fellows program are now working in perennial grain development in their professional lives.
So. There is this kind of training the future scientist who will, or inspiring even the future scientists who will be engaged in creating this new agriculture. But then also creating the communities of people from grade school to in a, an up to understand that there's a different way and a way to be more in touch with nature and ourselves as a species and, [00:20:00] um, the food that we eat.
Sydney Collins: Can you talk a little bit about your internship program? 'cause I feel like it's a hidden gem that a lot of people don't know about.
Rachel Stroer: our internship program has evolved mm-hmm. In the last few years. Um, we now hire, it's not called an internship program anymore, but we do hire every summer research assistants.
Mm-hmm. and this is a cohort of anywhere from 10 to 15 people. They come in kind of two shifts, oops, two shifts over the course of the summer, so from the spring to the fall, and help with field work and participate in, in lecture series.
Um, and are really key to making sure that all of the data is gathered from the field in a, in a high quality way, and then often even helping analyze into the fall and winter. So that is an opportunity. There are some high school aged [00:21:00] folks, but then also a lot of undergrad, couple of people who've maybe graduated from undergrad and are trying to figure out what's next.
but they come and sometimes they come back second year. We have somes that are some that are exchanges with colleges that we have relationships with. Oh, cool. So, yeah, it's a, it's a great group, um, of people. I love it that we get like, new energy into the organization every summer. They typically come, there are quite a few regionally who come and come back when there are also people from all over the world sometimes who, who come to take those positions.
Gus Applequist: Wow. One of our previous guests, uh, was James Bowden, who used to work at the Land Institute. I don't know how previous '
Sydney Collins: cause Carl was on too. That's true. Both the Bowden Brothers.
Gus Applequist: I don't know how James first got involved. Mm-hmm. But one of the topics that we, we talked with James about, um, he's a, a rancher and a farmer.
Challenges and Future of Sustainable Agriculture
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Gus Applequist: I, I guess I've experienced kind of the, the, you're kind of on the bleeding [00:22:00] front edge of agriculture, and there's a huge bulk of agriculture obviously that's, um, that's, you know, heavily industrialized. Mm-hmm. And, and these two sides kinda see each other. I guess I'm, I'm not part of either side, and so I, I imagine that there's tension between you guys.
James said that at least for him, there wasn't, you know, for him that, that you are united and aligned. Yeah. Um, I guess just could you speak to that? Like, do you feel tension with the, the, you know, there's probably a lot of people listening that, that are by, by our terms, industrial farmers today. Yeah. You know, should they feel threatened by the work that you do?
Rachel Stroer: I don't think any farmer should or often does feel threatened. Good. Um, by our work. I think farmers want to steward their land. Their, their, their land is their biggest asset. And what's available to them to produce and farm today destroys that. Hmm. And so if you say, well, I can give you something [00:23:00] potentially in 20 years, that can, um, that's perennial.
It comes back every year. It means that you till less, you put on far fewer chemicals, if any, which is also less expense. use less diesel, you can go outta town, you know, and it's, it's gonna still be there when you get back. and ideally, ultimately it has a market and it has all these other benefits.
Then they usually, my experience has been they raise their hand at the end of the q and a of a presentation and they say, when can I have that again? Um, I think that the. It relinquish the farmer from the economic labor intensive treadmill of annual monoculture at agriculture. Hmm. Um, and so I see, I see a lot of alignment now.
I think that there's like, not every kerns of [00:24:00] farmer is happy about growing kernza because it's hard and it's different and you have to learn new things, and it doesn't yield as much as it will in 20 years. And so the economics are, aren't there yet completely. Um, and so there's a lot of variables about who can be successful and who, you know, parameters, things that need to be true in order for somebody to be growing one of these beta perennial crops like Kernza.
But ultimately, the story and the plan is to have high yields, robust perenniality rebuild or build soil and. Solve a lot of the problems in annual agriculture that we currently do gymnastics around and, and or supplement with chemicals and, and other inputs.
[00:25:00]
Sydney Collins: this is kind of an out there one. Um, but are there any specific like policy changes at like a national or a global level that would help accelerate what you guys are doing?
Rachel Stroer: the first thing I would mention is that the government does provide some funding for research. Mm-hmm. I mean, the government is infamous for being behind, you know, NASA and these sort of the internet, these sort of things that were funded through r and d programs.
At the federal level. So there's definitely an opportunity for the [00:26:00] USDA and other federal programs to incentivize and or support perennial grain research and development. there has been some of it, it's sort of scratching the edges, but it's not nearly as full as, um, the way that they fund more mature technologies.
So, that's an opportunity. And then in terms of these beta crops, like kernza, there are also policy levers that make it easier for farmers to grow it, that make it, help it sort of get onto the landscape. Um, I'm not an expert on those things, but it's, you know, getting into a checkoff, getting Kerns a listed in the checkoff program, getting it into the EQUIP program, these, or getting crop insurance sort of mandates and policies for Kerns a production, these kinds of things where it's.
Kernza for a farmer is a and kernza for the banker who supports the farmer is a high risk unknown thing where they [00:27:00] can look at the price of wheat and corn and soy and milo over the course of a decade and make risk assumptions. There is none of that for Kernza. So, getting some of those support networks set up, um, can be a policy change initiative and we have had some of that for Kernza, um, successfully.
So gotten it listed in various things that make it a little bit easier to grow.
Sydney Collins: I'm gonna go off script here a little bit. One of the things that we've noticed while working with Land Institute is you guys have a company culture that's pretty amazing. at least from the outside it looks like that.
I don't know. Um. That all of your employees seem to just have this insane passion for what you guys are doing. Hmm. is that something you intentionally hire for? Is or has that come naturally?
Rachel Stroer: I think people come to the work with it largely. Um, they probably feel it when they [00:28:00] interview. Like they come to interview and they're like, oh, something's happening here.
I wanna be part of that. I don't think it's a, it's probably somewhat a requirement, but we also like do other recruiting and like we pay people and it's, they make a living working at the Land Institute and they get great benefits and uh, the culture is sort of like a bonus maybe. Um, so. I think it's always been somewhat like that, and I hope that we've made it an even better place.
I saw this meme poster thing just today, and I'm gonna butcher it, but it said something like, build such a rock solid team that no one knows who the leader is. Oh, that's good. That's a good one. And I feel like we are like really [00:29:00] close to, to having achieved that. Mm-hmm. I think there's a lot of leaders at the Land Institute and my goal, certainly in my leadership style is to build that team and then empower them.
And so that if I'm gone, it doesn't matter. Mm-hmm. Like it's to, to sort of make myself expendable in some ways. Mm-hmm. Um, so I think we've, I just spent the morning with our. Uh, director and, and executive teams, and they're all pretty, pretty amazing, solid people, so. Hmm. That's awesome.
Sydney Collins: you guys just went through, not necessarily rebranding, but a refreshment.
Yeah. Um, can you talk about kinda what that process was? 'cause it's, it, it's a very different vibe and very colorful and very, something you probably wouldn't expect, um, land Institute. Can you mm-hmm. Talk a little bit about that.
Rachel Stroer: Yeah. Um, yeah, so we spent two and a [00:30:00] half, maybe years mm-hmm. Um, working. We, we just launched a communications program, um, four years ago, three or four years ago.
Um, and hired Tammy Kimler. Mm-hmm. Uh, who had been sort of a kernza evangelist within General Mills. That's awesome. Um, she came and worked with us at the Land Institute and runs our communications, and so she was sort of the lead. So she is the person that you should be asking this question of, but I will tell you that there's, the, the sort of title of the, of the one we chose, of the option we chose was called Flourish.
Um, and it is very much I think, intended to, to transition our brand and organization towards what I think we have been achieving, which is to be more accessible to a broader audience. Mm-hmm. and so that's that. And then you [00:31:00] see these sort of patterns. all of the staff have these beautiful colors behind their heads.
Um. It's, it's, yeah, really focused on sort of personal storytelling, this sort of pattern language with the colors and this idea of sort of, of this flourishing future under perennial agriculture, but also this inclusive process of getting there.
Gus Applequist: I have a, I have a question that you can, you can feel free to say you don't want to answer and we'll edit it out.
Um,
Rachel Stroer: I think you asked me are there any questions, topics you don't wanna address? And I was like, no, I can handle it all.
Gus Applequist: I can imagine that, that it was challenging and, and I, I'm not saying this because I think it was challenging for you personally, just it is challenging to take over for a founder
Rachel Stroer: Mm. To, to
Gus Applequist: be the second leader of an organization.
Rachel Stroer: Well, I had a hedge. Okay. So, um, I didn't have to take over after the founder. Okay, gotcha. Um, so Wes retired from being president in 2016 and I was [00:32:00] COO at the time. And the board hired Fred Zi to be president. That's right. Fred was president for four years, um, before I became president, before he left and I became president.
So Fred did all the hard work and then I just get the honeymoon.
Gus Applequist: Gotcha.
Rachel Stroer: Maybe something like that, although, it is a hard transition for an organization to make mm-hmm. To go from a dominant, charismatic, co-founder like Wes mm-hmm. And become its own thing. Mm-hmm. I used to, we, we did our first, I was chief strategy officer when we created our first strategic vision document, kind of as a, it was a three year process with staff and board.
Um, and this was all when Fred was president. and I used to, I was like, when Wes was gonna retire, I was like, here's the thing. The strategy of the Land Institute is West Jackson. Hmm. You [00:33:00] know, and it was like he has his finger on this thing and he's gonna retire and let go and we don't know what that thing is gonna become.
Mm. And so I would say that since he retired in 2016, it's been becoming, and I think the rebrand is a great kind of moment of officially transitioning into sort of what the post Wes Jackson putting his finger on it all, um, is for the organization. But still, we all have our finger on a lot of what Wes told us to put our finger on.
So a lot of that has stayed and I think will.
Gus Applequist: You know, for, for the Kansans that maybe don't know about, about the Land Institute or, or maybe just, um, uh, they've heard of it and now they're understanding better, like what is the, the significance of the Land Institute being here and not someplace else?
Rachel Stroer: Hmm. I love it. I mean, I think it is a [00:34:00] thing to celebrate that this ragtag group of, you know, academic, defectors, you know, came to the banks of the Smoky Hill River off of Water Well Road, and started this agricultural revolution in the bread basket of the United States in a place that is very, it makes perfect sense, and I think that Kansas and the Midwest should take credit, should be celebrating that this, this transformative idea.
Was born here and is gonna stay here too, like is continues to find grounding in this place. And that 95 researchers, or 200 plus researchers all over the globe want to come here. You know, and we have visitors on a sometimes monthly basis, sometimes weekly basis from China, [00:35:00] from Ukraine, from all over the world who are here in little Salina, Kansas to see this research institute that isn't that glamorous compared to the big biotech or bioscience institutions even in the region.
but we have made, I think, have the potential to make a huge change based out of this little seed that was planted on the Smoky Hill River. I think that's pretty cool. L
Gus Applequist: lovely. I love the way you, you said that, uh, I have to tell a brief story. uh, year or two ago, my wife and I were flying into Lina late at night.
It was snowing outside. Mm-hmm. And we landed and, and we got off the plane and, and, uh, there was Lee Han, uh, Dr. Lee Han like, uh, in the, uh, luggage area or whatever, Uhhuh. And so I walked up to Lee 'cause his daughter Alicia works for us. Yeah. And so I created him and [00:36:00] said, what are you doing here in, you know, night?
Unexpected Visitor in Salina, Kansas
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Gus Applequist: And he's like, well, we have a researcher coming in from I think somewhere in Europe. Yeah. And I just, it just occurred to me, like, and, and I think he said this was their first time in the United States.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. He was
Gus Applequist: like, what a way to find yourself in the United States
Sydney Collins: in this tiny airport in Salina, Kansas.
In the dark, dark in the
Gus Applequist: snow. And, and yeah, I just, I can only imagine what the experiences of our. Yeah. The experiences of the people are that come and visit. Yeah. And see, you know, both what they came to see, what's going on at the Land Institute, but also how the Land Institute sits in this region and what this region is all about.
The Human Side of the Land Institute
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Rachel Stroer: Well and I love that also, uh, what the story that you told also illustrates that culture. Here you have Lee DeHaan who is the world's expert on de novo domestication of perennial grains. Kernza specifically, arguably the only one on the planet [00:37:00] with as much tenure as he has in breeding, kernza, passing that on to other universities and folks.
And what is he doing? He is at the airport picking up. The, visitor Himself. Probably in his personal car. Yeah. So, I, I think that is, I mean, it's just, there's something very human,
And real about the land institute. And I think it comes through in the culture and stories like that, but then it's also this global, it's like a secretly global thing.
Yeah. A low key global initiative.
Celebrating 50 Years and Future Aspirations
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Sydney Collins: So probably a question you've been asked a lot lately. You're celebrating 50 years. What do you see or hope for the next 50?
Rachel Stroer: I think that this place, the Land Institute and our community partners in Salina can continue to intensify [00:38:00] the regional sort of ness and place baseness of this idea of a perennial future for agriculture here.
I think that what I wanna see in the next 50 years is that there are equally resilient sort of local food based communities with researchers embedded within them, with farmers and indigenous knowledge, and all of these diverse stakeholders for the future engaged in a bunch of other places all over the globe.
So you have a, you, you take, you don't take Salina and put it somewhere else. Mm-hmm. But you give, you Uganda the tools that they need to generate the same sort of key ingredients in their way for this perennial future in their agriculture. and so I think the way that we get there [00:39:00] is we have to transition communities.
Sort of root them in place. We have to transition the global academic and research infrastructure that is working on agriculture. There's a lot of it. Billions and billions of dollars are spent tweaking annual agriculture and more and more of that should be spent invested in perennial agriculture. and then the communities.
Then it becomes like a feedback loop. We have the researchers creating it. We have the farmers and the communities engaging in that process. And ultimately, no matter what happens globally in the next 50 years, we can be assured that there are some of these kind of deeply rooted, resilient places with these perennial seeds ready to sort of create the future seed the future.
Agriculture: A Human Endeavor
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Gus Applequist: It strikes me that what you just [00:40:00] described is just, um, just as much about the people as it is about the plants.
Rachel Stroer: I think, I mean, it is, it's so funny. I'm just, this is gonna be a longer story. You can cut it if you want, but, I just started reading out loud to my kid. The, uh, unstoppable Us, it is the kid's version, uh, by Harra, of Sapiens.
You've probably heard of this. I've heard of 'em. Yeah. The book Sapiens. Mm-hmm. they created a two part series that's like a kid's book. It's like ki it has a lot of graphics in it. Mm-hmm. Um, pictures and stuff. And it has sort of chap smaller chapters. And the second book starts with the beginnings of agriculture.
And we kind of got off on a bad foot with agriculture. I mean, it really. Hmm. It really, my, my 10-year-old is like, oh yeah, it's way better to be a hunter gatherer than to do this agriculture stuff. where was I? What was the question that you asked?
Gus Applequist: I was, I was saying, [00:41:00] uh, it's more about people than plants or Oh yeah.
People. Yeah.
Rachel Stroer: But, but just how, when you go back 10,000 years to the beginning of agriculture, it is a people, it is a human endeavor. Like agriculture wouldn't exist if it weren't for people. And so, and then in turn, it has impacted us. It has changed us. It has ingrained our societies in the way that they're ingrained.
It has, I mean it in this book, you know, I mean, it led to surplus. It led to war, the sort of permanence of, of agriculture led to fighting over land. There's all these like kind of more colonial. Implications of, of agriculture, but, um, I just think it is about the people because it has been from the beginning.
Gus Applequist: Hmm.
Rachel Stroer: The point of agriculture is to feed us. Hmm. [00:42:00] So any solution we come up with has to be rooted in the people who are going to, like, the plants are stewarded by the people and the people steward the plants.
Kansas: More Than Just Flat Land
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Gus Applequist: So not to make it all about Kansas, but like that does elevate, I mean, it is asking Kansas, it does ask, but that elevates the importance of a state like Kansas.
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Who has, we've talked about the inferiority Kuhn, uh, complex and Oh, really? We, Kansas, yeah. That we, we have a tendency to look down on our state, but, but important work is being done here. Oh yeah. Both the, the current ag agriculture and the agriculture of the future.
Rachel Stroer: Yeah. Yeah. I agree. Not irrelevant.
Although we are flatter than a pancake.
I, I, we
Sydney Collins: have
Rachel Stroer: mixed
Sydney Collins: feelings about that.
Rachel Stroer: Did you hear the NPR piece? No. No. Please
Gus Applequist: enlighten us.
Rachel Stroer: So this was probably a couple years ago, but they, they did an NPR piece on is Kansas flatter than a pancake. And [00:43:00] they took a pancake,
Sydney Collins: which I already have problems with this 'cause there's different ways to make a pancake.
Rachel Stroer: It's true. And they, and they, and they like mapped it, they scaled it to the size of Kansas, or they took Kansas and they scaled it to the size of a pancake. And they determined that when you just stretch a pancake, or compress Kansas into a pancake size, Kansas is in fact flatter than a pancake.
Gus Applequist: And we should be darn proud of it.
Rachel Stroer: And why not? You can see it has beautiful, sunsets You can see. Into the next state.
Sydney Collins: I have So many questions
about that whole scenario.
Rachel Stroer: Well, it wasn't my study, so.
Sydney Collins: Well, I think you need to redo the study.
Ask,
I
think,
Gus Applequist: I think the land has bigger priorities. There need to be a side
Sydney Collins: project for the Land Institute.
What's wrong with being flat? There's nothing wrong with it. But the, the whole thing is, is when people go through Kansas and that's the problem, they're going through it right on the interstate and they always say, Kansas is so flat. But if you really [00:44:00] get off the beaten path, there are a lot of hills.
There are the flint hills, there are the smoky hills. There's all those things. So, but anyway,
Gus Applequist: and just 'cause it's flat doesn't mean there's not something special about it. That's true.
Sydney Collins: It's okay to be flat. Maybe I just need to be accept that.
The Mystery of the Prairie
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Rachel Stroer: My father always talks about the, so he, they, my parents are from here obviously, and they also like to go to the ocean.
Oh yeah. And he likes to sit and look at the ocean. But he also likes to sit and look at the prairie. And he thinks of them very similarly. Hmm. So most of what the prairie has to offer is underground, just like most of what the ocean has to offer is under the surface. And so there's so much that you don't see.
That's true. There's a mystery of the prairie that can be explored much like the ocean.
Gus Applequist: We've, we've had several guests on that I should have asked this of. But you're even better, uh, there's a picture right behind you that I was taken by Jim Richardson, another guest. [00:45:00] it's just such a powerful demonstration of like what is under the surface.
Could you, could you just
Rachel Stroer: Yeah. Talk about that for a second. I'm just confirming. 'cause he took a pictures of a lot of different plants. Mm-hmm. But that is kernza
Gus Applequist: and this is not life size. It's No, this is not life size. Yeah. Much smaller than it actually is.
Rachel Stroer: They are beautiful and I this.
The roots image. So what you see here is a plant. You see the productive top on or part on top, and you see the, this very deep, pervasive persistent root system that is underground. And it's even cooler when you see the different species because some of the species on the prairie have these big tap roots.
And then some of them have more fine roots like this kernza, like big blue stem or other prairie grasses. Um, and they each serve their own function. And what you don't see here is the [00:46:00] millions of microorganisms that hold that all together. Hmm. And so there's more biodiversity potentially below ground than there is above ground.
And we know much less about it than we do about above ground biodiversity. So. It is an ecosystem, all of its own. Um, but yes, those roots are very powerful. I think, I think as humans, we all wanna like come home to our roots, especially in 2025, it feels like, oh man, if you've got nothing else going on, just go like, take your shoes off and walk in some grass and just, and just reconnect.
And just remember that there is this whole infrastructure that has developed over billions of years on this planet without any human having anything to do with it. And it is so intelligent and so grounded, and it will, it [00:47:00] will thrive, it will survive. Um, and it, it can teach us how to, how to survive and thrive too, I think.
Sydney Collins: Is there anything that you wanna give shout out to for the Land Institute? Anything we should know? Any news,
Rachel Stroer: shout out to the Land Institute. Come and come and see us. We actually, I think, just stopped our tours for the, for the season. Mm-hmm. But typically Friday mornings at 10 30 during the, like, summer, spring and summer months, we give tours.
They're open to the public. We, we suggest that you register and come out and see us. we will be hosting Prairie Festival. So Prairie Festival is, was typically our annual sort of celebration of the Prairie and Prairie folk. Mm-hmm. Um, out at the Land Institute grounds. And we are having that again after a three year hiatus in 2026.
And it's gonna be a big 50th anniversary celebration. Awesome. Wow. So that's September 27th, or 25th? Through the 27th. Of [00:48:00] 2026. Of 2026. great news. Yeah, it's pretty close. We're starting to plan for it. So, yeah. Um, getting excited and just go be one with nature, I think, and shout out clearly if it, if it didn't come through already, shout out to the team at the Land Institute.
They are amazing, passionate people who are, we'll pick you up at the airport.
Sydney Collins: We'll in, in the dark and in the snow.
Rachel Stroer: Yes. And they welcome. We know, we have a couple people who just moved to town. We have a, a Turkish person who came, um, with his family to be our director of natural science research. Oh. We have another director of our crop stewardship program who just moved here from the DC area and our community just welcomes them.
They host dinners, um, they help each other find furniture. You know, it is not unlike them to be seen hauling things around for each other. So it becomes kind of an instant [00:49:00] community, which is very cool. So shout out to the people of the Land Institute for sure.
Gus Applequist: They're, every person I've met at the Institute is just such an interesting person.
Yeah. And I mean that in the best way. In the best way. They're,
Sydney Collins: they're all very unique. It's not like you copied and pasted a personality. Yeah.
Rachel Stroer: I know that I've heard, heard this from a couple people. It's one of my favorites is people who are like, I love working at the Land Institute.
'cause I can just be myself. Yeah. So. Mm-hmm. You don't have to pretend, I guess, when you're at the Land Institute.
Sydney Collins: [00:50:00] Thanks for joining us, uh, for that conversation with Rachel.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, it was, it was, um, I've been around Rachel on a few shoots and stuff, but it was fun to actually have a chance to, to chat with her.
Sydney Collins: Yeah. It's the same, like I've always known Rachel from like an arm's length of like, we've worked with her team, we've worked with.
Elaine Institute a lot. So, um, but yeah, uh, I, she's so succinct when she talks, she kind of, there's a couple times where I just got so into what she was saying. I forgot that I was supposed to ask a question and, Such a, again, I love people who just exude passion, and she's one of those people.
And the Land Institute just in general are, are just those people. And, and I think that's why I love working with them so much.
Gus Applequist: it has been a joy working with the Land Institute and, and getting to know some of the folks out there. They're, like we said in the, in the interview, they're really interesting.
one of the things that, that she kind of highlighted when we were talking a little bit about Lee was that the work that they're doing is higher profile [00:51:00] than most people realize. Mm-hmm. And, um, somebody like Wes Jackson, who, you know, maybe in the ag sphere and, and, uh, you know, around Salina, people may know that name, but it's entirely possible in a hundred years that name might have more significance than it does today.
And so it's, it's really exciting to Yeah. To to be around them and what they're doing. Yeah. So, with that, are you ready for another segment of wearing the rectangle? I am. Wonderful.
The Longest Sculpted Brick Mural in the U.S.
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Gus Applequist: I'm ready. Uh, this is, this is our segment where we ask Sydnee to try to pin the location of some of the more interesting things that can be found in Kansas.
Okay. And today, oh no, we're looking at a mural that's a mural, not just any mural. Yeah. You can already tell her something different about it. This is the whole wall mural, and it has the distinction of being the longest sculpted brick mural in the United States. Yes. This means that each brick in this 140 foot long, 15 to 20 foot high wall was carved to create this image.
Sydney Collins: Holy smokes. [00:52:00]
Gus Applequist: Yeah. You. I, the pictures are like when you drive by on the, the road that, that we'll talk about after a bit. When I reveal where this is,it doesn't leave as much of an impression as when you get up close to it. Yeah. So just, you know, there, there you can see the whole wall. That's wild. how many bricks do you think that took?
Sydney Collins: Oh, how many? Yep. Oh. Oh, no. hold on. 1, 2, 3, 4. I don't know. I don't do math. I'm gonna go a thousand. I don't know.
Gus Applequist: You're in, you're in the neighborhood. 6,400 bricks we're donated by, I
Sydney Collins: was in the neighborhood. I wasn't even, I wasn't even in the county
Gus Applequist: by, uh, uh, cloud ceramics. So, yeah, that's, it's pretty cool.
Uh, so my next question is, how long do you think it took artist? Catherine Magel, I apologize if I messed up that name. Um, her assistant Mara and their team of three local masons to complete the mural. [00:53:00]
Sydney Collins: Oh, how long I'm gonna go,
I'm gonna go a year.
Gus Applequist: Not bad. Okay. So this is a bit of a complex answer. Okay. Um, they started designing and actually carving the bricks in February, 2007. The last brick recent was carved in, or sorry, on April 18th, 2008. About 14 months later. Okay. But they weren't actually able to start building it right until a year after that.
So they carved the bricks first. So they
Sydney Collins: carved the bricks, laid 'em all out, made sure and then,
Gus Applequist: and then a year later they came back and started laying them out. And it took them about six weeks to build the whole wall. And the, the whole story here is there was, there used to be a building next to the building that this wall is on, right?
And they tore that building down and the wall was all screwed up. And so they needed something different. And somebody had this idea of, of doing a brick mural. That's crazy. So my final question sitting is. Where? In the direct. Where? In the rectangle. Where? In
Sydney Collins: the rectangle? Mm-hmm. Um, mm, mm mm Okay. So I have [00:54:00] railroad tracks.
I've got,
Gus Applequist: do you if you need any hints? Yeah. Just
Sydney Collins: minors. I think I saw, I saw a guy with a little light. I've got hunter's, gatherers. I got three kids that look terrified. Um, what is that guy doing that looks like he's signing up for something he doesn't wanna be signed up for. Oh gosh. I'm gonna go somewhere up north for some reason, I think.
Okay. Um, I gotta pull up my county list. Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Here, do you want me to grab the Yeah,
Sydney Collins: grab our, grab our rectangle. Republic maybe.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Is that your final answer? Yeah.
Sydney Collins: Republic County,
Gus Applequist: not, not a terrible guess. The answer is Cloud County. Uh, this is, this is just south of Republic. So you're just one county north. And this is in Concordia, as you can see in this final picture.
Sydney Collins: Oh,
Gus Applequist: I
Sydney Collins: did not know that was in Concordia. Yeah.
If
Gus Applequist: you are, do you, so have you driven through Concordia before? [00:55:00]
Sydney Collins: Uh, not lately.
Gus Applequist: Okay. Do you know how there's like an overpass?
Sydney Collins: Yeah.
Gus Applequist: Uh, this is right before the overpass on the left. Oh. If you're heading north.
Sydney Collins: Interesting.
Gus Applequist: Okay. So yeah, Concordia is a really awesome place. They have a lot going on and Cloud County in general as well.
Um, the, the mural is called Cloud anthologies, and that was one of my, gonna be, one of my hints to you is, uh. Cloud, uh, 'cause Cloud County,
Curious Kansan: Exploring Kansas
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Gus Applequist: I just to, to give a little bit more of a bump to our Curious Kansan thing, I just, I wanted to share one of my favorite fictional Kansans, which is Ted Lasso. Uh, he once quoted the poet Walt Whitman by saying, uh, be curious, not judgmental. Mm-hmm. And I think that's a great way to approach Kansas.
At first glance, Kansas can be discounted and ignored, underestimated and misunderstood, and driven by, and flown over, as we said earlier. But Curious Kansans know that off of every exit of the interstate lies opportunities for exploration, connection, and discovery. And there's a rich and wonderful state out [00:56:00] here waiting for you to find it.
So listening to this podcast is one way to be curious about the Sunflower State and another is to subscribe to our Curious Kansan newsletter by visiting ask a kansan.com. And for any of my fellow Ted Lasso fans out there, this is barbecue sauce. I know that makes no sense if you don't, but I'm referencing a specific scene here, a very specific yes.
Mm-hmm. It's a great scene too. And that brings us to the end of another episode of Ask
a
Gus Applequist: Kansan.
Sydney Collins: Mm-hmm. Make sure to follow us, like share this with one other person. Um, I mean, start going through our archive of episodes if you haven't yet.
Um, a lot of very interesting conversation. If you like this episode, check out, um, James Bowden's episode. It's kind of around the same, um, uh, type of content. Um, but yeah, feel free to check us out.
Gus Applequist: Yeah, and, and if you haven't been to the website before, there's a lot of great information about us and about what we do and, um, and, and other [00:57:00] opportunities to connect with it.
So yes. Yeah. Thanks for tuning in.
Sydney Collins: Bye.