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Hear from the folks that live, breathe and know the national parks best.
Everyone. Thanks for checking out the Safe Travels podcast. My name is Joey. Today, I'm at Death Valley National Park. And this morning, I sat down with Alicia Letterman who is a park ranger here, and we talked about wildlife.
Joey Liberatore:Alright. Well, we learned a little bit about Matt last week in the astronomy episode. Now we're joined by Alicia and we're gonna talk about the wildlife here at Death Valley National Park, but before that, I wanna talk about your journey to the park.
Elyscia Letterman:My journey began in Northern California and then, I went to school on the central coast, for biology, molecular biology, worked in a lab and found that I was looking outside all the time and realized that maybe I was not in the correct career. And so I started looking around and seeing what types of other positions were available, found myself several different internship positions, in the outdoor realm and then worked seasonally for many years in a bunch of different national parks and eventually found my way here.
Joey Liberatore:Is there any, national park that you've worked at that compares to kind of the vastness of Death Valley?
Elyscia Letterman:Oh, gosh. They're all so different. Most of the parks I've worked in have been similar in that they're built big wilderness parks, places with a lot of space like Sequoia and Kings Canyon.
Joey Liberatore:Which is right around the corner. It's incredible to think about this desert right here and then right around the corner are those two national parks
Elyscia Letterman:that are
Joey Liberatore:outlined big trees. It's amazing.
Elyscia Letterman:And we're connected in that. We're in the rain shadow of the Sierra and so part of what makes Death Valley Death Valley is the fact that the Sierra are so close Yeah. And take a lot of that moisture.
Joey Liberatore:Well, talking about Death Valley and the desert here and speaking of wildlife, it's incredible that humans like yourself can even work and live in a place like this. Then you think about the wildlife and not just a few species that live here, but it's a sprawling, wildlife that live here. Can you talk about some of the desert adaptations that some of the main species that you can find here in the park have have taken on?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So, like you mentioned, a lot of folks when they first come here and they hear the name Death Valley and they think, oh, Death Valley is just this place that's full of sand. There's nothing there. How could anything possibly live here? They come to the visitor front desk and they say, oh, I didn't see any animals.
Elyscia Letterman:Do any animals even live here? The answer is yes. We actually have a lot of animals that live here. But one of the reasons why people don't see them is because that is part of their strategy. So a lot of, creatures will either, they'll be nocturnal or they will, so meaning they just come out at night or crepuscular, dawn and dusk.
Elyscia Letterman:So if you're out exploring the park early, in the morning or in the evening in those twilight hours, then you might be more likely to see wildlife. Also, we have wildlife that just travels through. So they don't live here during the hottest times of the year. Or like people like to do, they go to the higher elevations in the summertime. So, you'll see, you know, bighorn sheep sort of lower, in early season and then maybe up in the mountains a little later when it's cooler.
Elyscia Letterman:We also have a lot of organisms which will grow go underground. So things like sidewinders or different, small mammals like kangaroo rats or desert tortoises. They'll take shelter from the heat of the sun underneath the ground where the temperatures are much, much cooler. Or if you're a bird, maybe you find a place that's in the shade or you go up to a little higher elevation, you take refuge in an area that's closer to a water source, something like that. So there's a lot of different strategies that animals utilize to be able to live in such an extreme environment, and a lot of them have have have done very well.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. You just mentioned a lot of animals that I wanna get into. We can start with the bighorn sheep because I know that, as you mentioned, some water sources can be difficult to find. So when they do find water sources, I was reading that they can take on gallons of water at a time to suffice themselves for the coming days. What's that journey like for them and are they always on the hunt then for water after they find that initial water source?
Elyscia Letterman:Yes. So water is really important, for the bigh horn. And so you'll definitely see evidence of them in those really special areas where there's springs, like, up in, some of the canyons in the park. Park actually does have a fair amount of water, but it's tucked up away. So they like to go to those areas to utilize those resources.
Elyscia Letterman:But that is a challenge potentially with warming climate, which is that those sources may be drying up or the vegetation that they use might, that they also need might be less abundant. Another challenge that the bighorn face is that we have non native burrows here, so donkeys. And they are very cute. People really like them. But what they don't realize is that the burrows actually went to and they just trashed it.
Elyscia Letterman:So they, that the Burrows went to, and they just trashed it. So they destroyed all the vegetation, trampled everything, all the native species, and then they also chase away the bighorn. So they're very aggressive. And so with these, you know, limited resources, it can be really important for that that are really important for the bighorn sheep. The burrows can be can be a big challenge.
Joey Liberatore:For, species that are invasive like the boroughs, I know that the park has partnered with a foundation that is able to take the boroughs and essentially rehome them. Right?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. It's actually a really cool, partnership, where there's folks who will come out and they will trap the boroughs in corrals and then they'll take them so you could adopt your very own Death Valley burrow. And they are quite cute, but they don't belong on the landscape here. They came here by early miners prospectors in the 1800 1900 brought them. Sometimes they let them go, sometimes they escaped, and then they're now sort of part of this landscape, but they weren't here prior to the introduction by humans.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. That's really interesting. I and you I wanna touch on how you mentioned that you you corral them and the process of corralling them. I think it's really unique. Typically, it's around a spring and it's like a a one way door.
Joey Liberatore:Right? And then after they're corralled in this area, then they're able to essentially transport them to the area where they get treated and then re homed. Right?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. Yeah. That's correct. And so they'll just be trailered like you would trailer livestock, and then they get new homes, which is awesome.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. That's really interesting. I think that process is pretty similar to other parks in terms of if you have a bear population and treating a, a population of bear that might be sick or, you know, studying the landscape of wildlife that's out there. So I think that technique is is really unique to learn about and not something that people think about when they come to a a national park is that, you know, biologists and, you know, wildlife folks and researchers are are studying these animals and one way to do that is corralling them in areas and then studying them from there.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah and we do actually capture, going back to the native species, the bighorn sheep, and do sort of population studies and genetic studies on them. Bighorn sheep are also facing a lot of outside threats like habitat fragmentation with different highways. We might see projects going in in different areas where they're building, like, bridges or tunnels to for wildlife to use to get through. And that's really important for their genetic diversity, especially as habitat is becoming more and more fragmented with human development. And, something important to note for visitors who are coming here is that, areas that get a lot of use can actually cause the bighorn sheep to move out of those areas even though they might be areas that they would typically prefer, like places, say, like Echo Canyon.
Elyscia Letterman:If there's a lot of people there, a lot who are making a lot of noise or maybe have their pets there or whatever, then that can be frightening to the bighorn and they'll move out of those areas. So just being really respectful, when we're visiting these places, realizing that these are some of the last refuges for these really, really interesting animals.
Joey Liberatore:You mentioned potentially humans frightening the bighorn when, you know, you stumble upon them. Is there obviously, their instinct after that is to migrate out of those areas, but in the moment, are bighorn, when they are frightened, do they act erratic towards human? Do are they, you know, when humans frighten them, do are they a threat back, when you're hiking?
Elyscia Letterman:I've never experienced that. Whenever I've come across a bighorn out hiking in the wilderness, they usually see me long before I see them. And the only reason I know they're there is because I'll hear some rocks in the distance and I'll see them running away. So they are afraid of us and so they're not gonna hang out if, we are in the area.
Joey Liberatore:Transitioning into kangaroo rats. I think they are crazy fascinating and, the way that they are able to adapt and live here not only from the mechanisms to get away from predators, but also their ability to survive without drinking water. How do they get their water and then how do they retain that after they receive it?
Elyscia Letterman:They get a lot of their water from the food that they eat. And so being able to survive in places like the Musky Flat sand dunes, where doesn't really get very much water. They can actually just survive, through the seeds that they eat. And then a similar strategy we're when we were talking about survival strategies, they'll go underground as well to hide from the heat of the day. You often see kangaroo rats actually on the roads at night because they come out at night and they're foraging for those food, slash water, and so you'll see them out and about.
Joey Liberatore:So when you go to the Mesquite sand dunes, and you walk out onto the sand, it feels like there's nothing out there in terms of wildlife. You're just kind of out there by yourself. Are there kangaroo rats under the sand then in that area?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. They burrow there. If you look along, there's a lot of creosote bushes and mesquite, trees and you'll see at the base of a lot of those, you'll see little holes and little burrows. And actually, the dunes is super full of life. Wow.
Elyscia Letterman:If you go to areas that people have not been walking and causing a lot of human footprints, you'll actually see so many really fascinating footprints. You'll see the kangaroo rats, you will see lizards. I really like that one because you see this kind of big feet and then you see this the dragging tail between the feet. So that one's really fun. And then, stink bugs Mhmm.
Elyscia Letterman:Or pinacate beetles, they'll make these little tracks that kinda look like tire, like mini little tire tracks. And some of my favorites, really special if you get the chance to go to the dunes, is if you see a sidewinder track. So sidewinder tracks are j shaped, parallel j shapes, and the reason for that is because they have this super interesting strategy to survive in a place that's really, really hot, which is that they actually lift up their body and basically most of their body is off of the ground and then they just kinda like flop. And then they like go and and so they have these sort of undulating movements so that they aren't in contact with that really hot sand for too much time. They can act they can slow their like normal snakes, but this sort of special movement allows them to kinda get that reprieve from the hot sand.
Elyscia Letterman:And just like a lot of the other animals that we were talking about, they are also nocturnal. So a lot of times people come to the park and they are worried about snakes, which is totally legitimate. But I always like to tell folks that as long as you're not sticking your hands and feet places that you can't see them, typically, you're not going to have a problem. So the snakes are not out to to bite us or or very aggressive. They we are much larger than they are.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. At the dunes, the sidewinder rattlesnakes, they're not very big. They're maybe a foot and a half. They could get up to maybe 3 feet. But they're pretty small and they utilize those rodent burrows to take shelter during the heat of the day.
Elyscia Letterman:And also, they do this super cool thing called cratering, where so if you see j tracks, and then at the end, there's, like, some like disturbed soil or disturbed sand, there's there could very well be a snake in there. So they'll get in and then they'll just kinda like shimmy down into the sand until just their little heads are sticking up. And so that keeps them cooler, but then it can also help them hide from prey so they can get their prey.
Joey Liberatore:And with the sidewinder on that point, I think it's really cool because they have the horns above their eyes that help keep the sand out of their eyes and help kinda keep them cool during during the day and then the night time too which is really cool.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah, exactly. There's some debate as to what the actual like purpose of those structures are but like you said, maybe some sort of like sunshield or, yeah, protecting when they're going underneath.
Joey Liberatore:I heard this podcast, that Abby Weins did that cracked me up. She was talking about rattlesnakes and she was saying rattlesnakes are the most courteous animal because they at least let you know before they're about to strike. Fair. Fair.
Elyscia Letterman:Yes. Yeah. They are venomous. Obviously, please don't harass wildlife or try to touch rattlesnakes, But as long as you're being cautious, if you're hiking over a rock or something like that, I always like to hike with trekking poles because you can kinda, if you can't see underneath the rock, then you can kinda do a little probe, not not stabbing, but at least probe to see if anybody's living under there, before you step down, without being able to see. So, yes, they are very kind in letting us know where they are.
Elyscia Letterman:Actually, on sort of a different note, but one that I think is really interesting is that, you know, when you go to souvenir shops or whatever, you can buy like rattlesnake eggs.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. Yeah.
Elyscia Letterman:Totally doesn't make sense because rattlesnakes are live bears. So they have like 8 to 10 live babies and then as soon as they're born, they're just out on their own. So
Joey Liberatore:That's funny. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. That's hilarious. I I wanna backtrack a little bit because you were talking about the the prints that could be left in the sand dunes and other areas in the park.
Joey Liberatore:And I'm gonna touch on this a little bit more with Matt when we talk about geology and climate, but that goes to the point of, you know, one of the big messages from the park is to not off road your vehicle because it can leave prints of tires, and I think people would much prefer to see the prints that you're talking about as opposed to your Toyota or Jeep tires that are are driving around, but can you talk about, you know, that and the reason, why we can't drive off road and and kinda destroy these patterns that that animals and wildlife are leaving behind?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. Well, I think you really hit on it, which is that tire tracks will last a really, really long time. And, people come to the park and they don't realize that it's not like an OHV area or an area where you are allowed to do those types of activities. And what happens is that when you drive, depending on what you're driving on, you can really compact the soil, and it can stay there for years. There's actually areas of the park where we had major flooding with the remnants of hurricane Hillary that came through last year, and there had been illegal off road tracks there, that whole area flooded, and the tracks are still there.
Elyscia Letterman:So the types of forces that it's gonna take to be able to erase those tracks are huge. So they could be there a super long time. Also, this is a really culturally rich area, and so people could, you know, unknowingly be driving through a culturally significant site that might have artifacts. And then we have cryptobiotic soil, so living soil as well. So you're driving through that and destroying those organisms.
Elyscia Letterman:And then obviously, just for the visual aspect for future visitors, like you said, people are not gonna they're coming here to see the beauty and the vastness of this natural place, this wilderness area. And then and when it's marred by tracks from illegal off road driving, that's yeah. That can be really disappointing if you have come around the world to see here.
Joey Liberatore:Absolutely. One of the animals that doesn't leave a lot of tracks because they're mostly on the ground is the desert tortoise. What makes them so unique to the park and how they adapted here?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. Desert tortoise are a threatened species. So there's, you know, there there are not as many of them as as there once were, but they are super interesting. There's you know, they can live up to 40, 50 years, somewhere in there, and they spend a lot of their life underground. So they'll dig these burrows.
Elyscia Letterman:If you're out, you might see like a crescent, half moon shaped burrow. And they'll go in there when it's hot or when it's cold. So they'll be in there the summer and the winter, and then they come out in the spring and they chomp at all the new vegetation that's out there. And you've I've seen pictures of their little faces covered in in green as they're eating all that new vegetation, but count yourself as extremely lucky if you see a tortoise because they are pretty elusive. So in the 5 years that I've worked here, I've seen 2.
Elyscia Letterman:And I go out on the park all the time. So
Joey Liberatore:Really? Were those magical experiences
Elyscia Letterman:to see the 2?
Joey Liberatore:Oh, there's so magical. Yeah.
Elyscia Letterman:Totally magical. Although one of them was just it like going into its burrow because as with most animals, it saw me before I saw it. And then the other one was on a remote dirt road. So, we really ask people that if you are out camping or even just driving, in the park, if you, park your vehicle to make sure that when you get back into your vehicle, you check underneath your tires. Because especially in the hotter months, if the tortoises aren't in their burrows, they'll take shade underneath cars.
Elyscia Letterman:And so it's just a good habit to get into if you're out hiking in the desert to take a quick check to make sure there's no little friend underneath your car. And then also just to drive slowly. So, you know, some of our dirt roads, people wonder why is the speed limit, you know, what it is and it's because we have these really unique and special wildlife, that live in those areas and that's their home. And so we wanna make sure that we're protecting them by being by being aware of their presence. Tortoises also, face a lot of threats from habitat, fragmentation, more people, more development, especially in in Nevada in the in the last few years.
Elyscia Letterman:And so, we had kind of these refuges where they're still able to, survive in their natural habitat.
Joey Liberatore:Well, we've talked a lot about reptiles including the desert tortoise. One other one another one I wanna talk about and speaking of cars, the lizards in the park. And going the speed limit is really important in this park because one thing I've noticed when you're driving around Death Valley there are lizards constantly crossing the road which is a hilarious sight. It's really awesome but they're brake checking you constantly when you're out there. There are so many different, you know, variations of lizards in the park.
Joey Liberatore:I have one on my hat, the collar lizard. Lizards are personal to me. I grew up with a bearded dragon named Charmander. So I love I love lizards. So to see, these unique reptiles in in the wild wild is is really cool.
Joey Liberatore:What are some of the unique lizards that that you can find in the park and and where are they, you know, typically roaming at?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So we do have a bunch of lizards. It's really interesting, when people do come in and say, I haven't seen any wildlife and they're here in winter. It's like, oh, well, actually, the lizards, you don't really see a lot of lizards in the park in winter. But just as you mentioned, this time of year, they are all over.
Elyscia Letterman:One of my favorite experiences was going into an unnamed Canyon in the southern part of the park. And they were just it was like a movie. They were Chuck Wallace all over the walls on the floor of the canyon. Chuck walids are some of my favorite lizards that we have here in the park. They're sort of a larger lizard maybe oh, I don't know size wise, but maybe 10 or 10 inches or so, not including the tail.
Elyscia Letterman:And they're kind of like a a dusky grayish color with like a lighter underbelly. Mhmm. And the the juveniles, are more of like a tan color and they have stripes. But, they're this really fascinating lizard that has this crazy adaptation where to avoid predators, they'll dive down in between the cracks of rocks and then they'll just puff themselves up by balloons. And so they're basically using, like, friction to keep themselves in there.
Elyscia Letterman:And so then the predator can't get them out. Wow. So Chuckwallos. I love Chuckwallos. Some other lizards you might see are, side blotch lizards.
Elyscia Letterman:So side blotch lizards are the most common lizards. They're pretty small. They can come in a variety of colors usually, like the breeding colors might have like some blues or greens. These guys are very cute. These guys are the food for a lot of the for a lot of the other lizards or birds and different creatures that live here, but definitely see side watch when you're here.
Elyscia Letterman:And they're called side watch because they have a little darker spot on their on their, by their leg. Some of my other favorites are the zebra tail lizards.
Joey Liberatore:Mhmm.
Elyscia Letterman:So those are the ones that often hang out in the road. Those are really really fast. So if you see a lizard and you're like, I think I saw a lizard, it was probably a zebra tail. And if you get a chance to actually get a look at it, they're called zebra tails because they're gray lizards but they have black white stripes on their tails, and it's super fascinating. Their tail's really long and thin, and they'll actually use it.
Elyscia Letterman:They'll kinda, like, lazily whip it around, and it looks like food. And so then they'll attract, like, some of those smaller lizards or prey that are coming and thinking that it's food and then they'll attack.
Joey Liberatore:So Isn't nature
Elyscia Letterman:crazy? It's wild.
Joey Liberatore:Well, one of the the predators, for these lizards that I know you like are the birds and the ravens. Oh, yeah. And the ravens are so interesting and unique to me because you go to Grand Canyon, there's ravens. You go to the alpines, there's ravens. You come to Death Valley, there's ravens.
Joey Liberatore:They're in every climate and it's really amazing. So what about the raven allows it to thrive in this environment?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So ravens, like you said, are super adaptable. I think something that really helps them here is that they are just they are omnivores. And so it lets them live in all of those different areas because they have such a variety of food sources. Obviously, that's not gonna necessarily help with, like, the heat, but ravens here are very smart as well.
Elyscia Letterman:And they have learned at the campgrounds that if they use their weight and they sit on the handles, then they'll actually turn on the water spouts and they'll be able to drink the water. So no problem getting water in such a dry place.
Joey Liberatore:That's crazy.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. And so I think a lot of their intelligence is what helps them be so adaptable. Ravens are super fascinating because, they actually they hold grudges also, and they will teach each other. And so if you're mean to a raven, you better watch out because there's all kinds of stories about ravens ripping people's windshield wipers apart like the the little rubber part throwing things at people. Don't be mean to a raven moral of the story because they will remember and they will haunt you forever.
Elyscia Letterman:That's crazy.
Joey Liberatore:And they
Elyscia Letterman:can live like over 20 years and teach all their friends.
Joey Liberatore:And they're massive.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. They're really big. People, sometimes mistake them for crows, but they're bigger than crows. They're usually a little bit more, like, rugged looking. They have sort of a chortling, voice.
Elyscia Letterman:They have a couple different sounds that they make, but that's the one I hear the most often. And they will usually just be in pairs, so they mate for life. So you'll often see 2 ravens together and they're sort of they're defending their territory. The young, the juveniles will join with other juveniles and have a group until they find their mate. But typically, unlike crows, which travel in larger groups, ravens you're gonna find in pairs.
Elyscia Letterman:So that's a good way to kinda differentiate.
Joey Liberatore:So do the the juveniles, do they kinda raise themselves with each other as opposed to the parents raving are raising the juveniles?
Elyscia Letterman:I don't know. That's a good question. I'm sure they the parents like feed them and and then once they fledge then yeah they probably they probably learn things from their friends just like humans do, but scientifically I don't know someone has probably studied
Joey Liberatore:it. Yeah.
Elyscia Letterman:I'll have to look that up.
Joey Liberatore:That's really interesting. What other birds are there in the park?
Elyscia Letterman:So interestingly, we do have a lot of birds here. Hundreds of different species use the park, but only maybe a 6 of those are here year round. Mhmm. So, ravens are year round residents. Other year round residents are, roadrunners.
Elyscia Letterman:So roadrunners are really interesting. Most I think most folks are familiar with roadrunners, but going back to lizards being prey, roadrunners will just stand really still and they'll just wait. And then when they see a a lizard or a small mammal or some or insect that they wanna get, they'll kinda crouch down and run really fast. And some thoughts about why they're crouching down like that is so that the prey is, like, less likely to see them. I don't know if that's true or not, but they'll kinda get low to the ground.
Elyscia Letterman:If you see it running real fast low to the ground, it's because it's after something. Wow. So that's pretty fascinating.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah. What is their max speed?
Elyscia Letterman:Oh, I don't know. I think it's in the thirties maybe.
Joey Liberatore:Wow. Yeah, I was fascinated to see that the Sidewinder gets up to 18 miles per hour.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah, they can move pretty quick.
Joey Liberatore:Yeah, that's impressive. Yeah, I think a lot of people know the Roadrunner obviously as being quick and agile and chasing its prey. So that's really interesting. I haven't seen one of those yet either.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah, they again, are elusive. This time of year, in the heat, they're not gonna be out, you know, wandering around in the middle of the day. Mhmm. I do see them more often in areas with a little bit more vegetation, like a little bit more mesquite, or there's some areas like over at Panamint Springs where there's a little bit more water or by the, inn, where there's often water running near the road. And I've seen them in that area, sort of on the side of the road.
Joey Liberatore:What are animals that primarily live up by Telescope Peak in like the Panamint Mountains where it's there's snow right now which is crazy and down in the the valley here it's a 100 plus already. But up in those mountains, are there full time residents that stay up there regardless of the weather?
Elyscia Letterman:That's a good question. I'm not a 100% sure with the snow what animals stay up there. We do have mountain lions in the park. Mountain lions are some of our biggest, predators that we have. They're pretty elusive.
Elyscia Letterman:In the 5 years I've worked here, I've never seen one. But you see evidence of them every so often you'll run into, like, a kill or something like that. In terms of other animals that are up there year round, I don't know. Maybe some some different bird species, but most creatures, you know, kinda base their elevation on the time of year. So they'll move up or down.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. That's a good question.
Joey Liberatore:Well, one of the animals that I'm most excited to talk about because I've heard them labeled as con artists and pesky, are the coyotes that are in the park, and I've heard some awesome stories about their intelligence and and how they get food from humans. So what about the coyote makes them pesky and a con artist?
Elyscia Letterman:Like the ravens, they are very intelligent and they have learned that, humans can mean food. So one of our biggest messages is please don't feed the coyotes because no one wants a coyote walking up to them. Coyotes here have learned actually, I have a funny story that the person who worked at the inn told me is that she saw a coyote near the road and it was acting totally normally and then a car drive by and it ran over to the road and started limping. And so they have learned that if they pretend to be injured or if they look real cute, people will be more likely to give them food. And they actually stop traffic by walking out into the middle of the road and just standing there.
Elyscia Letterman:And then people are taking their pictures and giving them food, but then what happens? The coyotes end up getting run over. So, people think that they're doing this great thing by feeding the coyotes, but actually, unfortunately, we have a number of coyotes that have gotten hit because they have gotten so used to just cars stopping for them and just prancing through the middle of the road.
Joey Liberatore:What would be their normal food source without humans?
Elyscia Letterman:They eat a lot of rodents, rabbits. It's really interesting. I you know, to see the different years, like, when there's a lot of vegetation and then there's a lot of rabbits and then you see some really healthy looking coyotes. Yeah. We have a lot of cottontails, particularly here on the valley floor.
Elyscia Letterman:And then at some of the higher elevations, we have jackrabbits. So, that's gonna be, like, a big food source for them.
Joey Liberatore:And so I think probably one of the threats too with the coyote being fed by humans in addition to getting run over is once they become reliant on humans and they start kind of going away from their natural food source, I assume that's dangerous for them too to to be eating food that they shouldn't be and then of course of course, you know, being reliant on humans being around them to take care of them.
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. They're omnivores so, you know, I think if people aren't feeding them, they're gonna go catch a rabbit, but why spend the energy to do that if someone's just gonna give you a hotdog? So, you know, I don't think they're not really losing their ability to hunt. Yes, maybe a hot dog is not as healthy for them as a rabbit. Ultimately, you know, depending on what the food is, I don't know that it's actually harming them.
Elyscia Letterman:But it's just not behaviors that are natural or normal. I think now, you know, there's a lot more interlap with coyotes' human interface across the country. It seems like they're everywhere now, but that's because they're smart. Just like the ravens. Ravens are in every state except for Hawaii.
Elyscia Letterman:So
Joey Liberatore:That's incredible. Yeah. Bears are known to get really aggressive towards humans once they realize that they can get food from them, which can result in attacks. Are coyotes that way or do coyotes generally stay away from attacking humans?
Elyscia Letterman:I have not heard of a coyote attacking a human here. I suppose it's possible. I think more of the risk is just people getting inadvertently bitten when they're trying to feed a coyote. I've not heard of a coyote actually, like, charging someone, you know. I wouldn't wanna leave a small child unattended, but I've not heard of anything like that.
Joey Liberatore:Are there any predators in the park that are a threat to human or even, you know, a small species like a a scorpion that you can get stung by at your campground?
Elyscia Letterman:Yes and no. I mean of course there are dangers. If you get bitten by a rattlesnake that could be a problem. Not every bite contains venom. Some bites are dry bites.
Elyscia Letterman:Mhmm. But you should certainly go to the hospital. With scorpions, I've not personally been stung by 1, but I know folks who have and they say it's like a bee sting. So you could have an allergic reaction. And that could be life threatening.
Elyscia Letterman:But typically, that's gonna be an unpleasant experience, but not something that, you know, is is life is going to kill you. We don't have a lot of big predators. Like I said, mountain lions are the biggest ones. For those normal mountain lion precautions, best to hike in groups. If you see a mountain lion, make a lot of noise, get big.
Elyscia Letterman:Like I said, I've hiked here for many, many years and I've never seen one even though I know they're here.
Joey Liberatore:Mhmm.
Elyscia Letterman:They are more afraid of us than we are afraid of them. Yeah. I think it's just about being aware of your surroundings. So don't don't be sticking your hands into little holes. Be aware that if you are, you know, playing around like a trash can or like under a picnic table, maybe there's a web with a like a black widow or something.
Elyscia Letterman:So just being aware of what you're doing, but there's nothing here that's super threatening.
Joey Liberatore:Over the past, couple of years, the the park's been faced with some threats of flooding, including recently, tropical storm Hillary that came here, which poses a threat to displacement of lizards and other animals that are here, especially from the water washing down from the mountains into the valley but also to an endangered species with the pupfish. What about the pupfish makes them so unique and you were talking about off camera earlier of how they're kind of reviving a little bit and, you know, a specific subset of species of them is critically endangered. What can people do to help them out and what are pupfish?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So for people who don't know, pupfishes are these really small fish that are only, you know, an inch or 2, long and they can survive in a place that's super hot. And in many cases, the water is extremely salty as well. A long time ago, this area used to be intermittently covered with lakes that would dry up and then form again. Nothing like the temporary lake that we had this year.
Elyscia Letterman:These were more wide ranging lakes. And then about 10000 years ago, the lake sort of dried up for good the last time. And when that happened, it sort of left these pockets of small, small water areas. And so you had these fish that, sort of speciated and then became, endemic to that one location. And so that's why why some of them are so critically endangered is because they are only found in that very one specific spot.
Elyscia Letterman:So we have 5, pup fishes, but the critically endangered ones, are the devil's hole pupfish. And so those, the last spring count that we had, the total population was a 191 individuals, which might not sound like much because that's that's the entire species. They live in this small cave, but it actually got down to an all time low of 35, individuals back in, I think it was 2013. So a 191 is is is great. And there could be some different reasons for that maybe because, so they feed on this this little shelf, this little rock shelf in their small habitat.
Elyscia Letterman:And when the storm came through, it's likely that more nutrients were washed into the system. And so then that provided more nutrients for the fish to be able to then reproduce. So, yeah, everything is connected. And speaking of being connected, it's really interesting that the habitat that they live in, no one's actually ever found the bottom of Devils' Hole. It goes super, super deep.
Elyscia Letterman:The fish only use the first 80 feet or so. They don't really go lower than that, but then it just keeps going and earthquakes that have happened as far as way as Japan and Chile, the water in Devil's will actually sloshes.
Joey Liberatore:What? That is amazing. Yeah. That's really incredible. And so they survive the, the the floods that you had mentioned.
Joey Liberatore:And, in fact, they can help them is what researchers are starting to find. Yeah. That's really interesting. What are some animals that, you know, do face, displacement when it floods and and when, you know, you know, the valley gets damaged from from the flooding?
Elyscia Letterman:I mean, a lot of it's individuals, so not necessarily whole species, but, you know, after the flooding, of course, we found individual, like, lizards and I think there was a kit fox and a couple other, you know, that had perished during the flooding. Whether they were, you know, caught in the water or buried or whatever. But in terms of species, it didn't seem to have a big effect.
Joey Liberatore:What about the kit fox? Kit fox is primarily a fox that comes out at night, correct?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. Yeah. So they're small, so sometimes people mistake them for the coyotes because I'm not sure. Our coyotes are are a little smaller than than some cuddies you might see other places. But kit foxes, they're very cute.
Elyscia Letterman:They have these these big ears. They're little little foxes and yeah. A lot of times you'll see them out near the dunes. They hunt kangaroo rats and other small mammals. And so yeah.
Elyscia Letterman:Particularly if if folks are driving in the park at night, we just ask that people be really cautious because, they can definitely be crossing the roadways. They don't hang out in the roadways and they don't beg for food like the coyotes do, but I've certainly seen them in the roads while hunting.
Joey Liberatore:I meant to bring this up earlier when you brought up jackrabbits. Jackrabbits are another cool example of desert adaptation with their big ears and how to regulate feet. What are other unique animals or unique things like the jackrabbit ears that, you know, help regulate the heat out here and, you know, keep them thriving in the desert?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So the it's interesting that you brought up the jackrabbit ears. So, what happens is that with those big ears, it provides more surface area And so that means as the blood flow is going through there, they can actually cool themselves, by releasing that extra heat. So it's a really interesting, strategy to be able to survive in a place that's really hot.
Joey Liberatore:That's so cool. Well, we've covered a ton of wildlife, but I want to talk about how visitors can keep the wildlife safe now when they come here. We talked about off roading being a major player and damaging the tracks that visitors might be able to see but also running over potential wildlife and artifacts. What are other things that visitors need to be cautious of? Obviously, there's the leave no trace rule that's in place everywhere, but what's critical to Death Valley that visitors must do to to keep the wildlife safe here?
Elyscia Letterman:Yeah. So I think, the main things are things that have been kind of, peppered through this conversation which is just that being aware that we are truly, visitors, and this is the animal's home and not approaching wildlife to begin with, not provoking wildlife, whether it be, you know, trying to pet a burrow or feeding a coyote or poking at a rattlesnake with a stick. Just realizing that these animals live here all the time and that, you know, many of us who come here are just visitors, and we might be here for a day or 2 or a week or maybe this is our our family place that we come once a year, but this is not our year round home like it is for these creatures which, you know, really, depend on on, the naturalness of the area. So driving slowly with our vehicles, being aware of our surroundings, and not feeding wildlife are really big takeaway points.
Joey Liberatore:Is there anything, involvement wise people, visitors can do or is there any events that they can attend at the park or come to or any organizations, if you will, that they can support that directly affects the wildlife at Death Valley?
Elyscia Letterman:So we do have a lot of nonprofit, park partners. So the Death Valley Natural History Association who operates our park bookstore and does a lot of philanthropy in the park, really appreciates donations. They can go to support things like hiring interns who can have different projects, based on, different topics, whether it be a specific topic or, you know, say working in the visitor center and providing general information. They can also support projects like, creating wayside information or publications, that can then be distributed, for free to people who are here visiting.
Joey Liberatore:That's awesome. Also one thing I wanna bring up, we talk about animals coming out at night. I went out to Badwater Basin to see my moon shadow the other day and I was surrounded by bats flying around me and bat shadows. That was a crazy experience too.
Elyscia Letterman:Bats are awesome. We have a number of different species of bats here in the park and I think a lot of people are kinda scared of bats. You know, they think about like Halloween and it's kinda scary and the bats are gonna come get in my hair. But actually, bats are a critical part of, the ecosystem because they, eat a lot of the insects. And so they use their echolocation to be able to hunt those insects.
Elyscia Letterman:And as we were talking a little bit before the the podcast, we have a lot of abandoned mines here in the park. So Death Valley has a rich history, not only biologically with the different species, some of the different species we've been talking about, but also rich human history. And part of that, the more recent part is mining. And so we have a lot of abandoned mine, attests and shafts and structures that the bats have started using utilizing, which is pretty cool. A lot of those, tunnels have been closed off.
Elyscia Letterman:So because they're not safe, for the public to enter, but we've done it in a way that allows bats to get through so they're still able to utilize those spaces.
Joey Liberatore:That's so cool. That's so unique. And if you haven't ever seen a video, for for listeners, if you've never seen a video of a bat catching insects, it's so fascinating. I I was lucky enough to watch a video of it at Zion and in slow motion how they like swallow up the insect with their wings. It's so amazing how they
Elyscia Letterman:do it. It's incredible.
Joey Liberatore:It really is. Well, is there anything else, that you would want to say about wildlife or you know the conservation and and visitors coming here, before we let you go?
Elyscia Letterman:I think just that if you do come here to Death Valley just realize that this is a place of life. Despite all the scary names that are here, which we could talk about at a different time, This is not a place of death. This is a place of life, and there's a lot of, creatures, both animals and plants, that call this place home. And this is really a special place. And, you know, we need to treat it with respect when we're here.
Joey Liberatore:Alicia, thank you. It's been awesome.
Elyscia Letterman:Great talking with you.
Joey Liberatore:Thanks for checking out the Safe Travels podcast. I really hope you enjoyed it. Alicia and all the park rangers here have been such a joy to get to know and to get to work with. And Alicia's last line that Death Valley isn't a place of death, it's a place of life is really compelling. So if you get the chance to come here, I highly encourage you do so, as it's really an incredible national park.
Joey Liberatore:So if you enjoy this type of content, make sure to like, comment, subscribe wherever you're listening or watching from. And until next time, safe travels.