The Creative Paradox: How to Lead with Confidence and Overcome Overthinking

Lioness Conversations FIRST ever LIVE COACHING episode!  Check it out!

Experience a raw and honest coaching session with Bola Gbadebo, an inspiring Lioness who, after a successful career in news, now sculpts profound human stories through film and poetry. Bola opens up about the anxiety that can accompany a vast creative vision, particularly when stepping into uncharted entrepreneurial territory. This conversation dives deep into the dynamic tension between trusting your authentic self and integrating external feedback without losing your creative compass. If you've ever felt paralyzed by the sheer scope of your dreams or the opinions of others, this episode offers a powerful roadmap to harness your inner leader and transform potential into impactful reality. You'll leave feeling empowered to take bold, intentional action.

Lioness Takeaways:

• Identify the critical point where ideation transitions into productive action.
• Learn how to leverage personal grounding techniques for enhanced focus and calm.
• Discover the power of self-talk and simple mantras to build unshakeable confidence.

Check out Bola's work and her documentary called "Confidence".
https://www.bolafilms.com/

Find out how to become a Lioness:
https://www.jenportercoach.com/

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction to Lioness Conversations
02:08 Bola's Journey and Bold Moves
03:46 The Value of Live Coaching
06:04 Exploring Creative Opportunities
08:59 Overthinking and Its Impact
12:09 Navigating Creative Freedom and Responsibility
15:02 Establishing Personal Standards
18:01 Learning to Balance Expectations
20:58 The Pursuit of Excellence vs. Perfection
28:05 Creative Freedom and Accountability
31:33 Navigating Partnerships and Shared Risks
33:31 The Burden of Leadership
36:10 Anxiety in the Creative Process
39:28 Innovative Ideas and Community Engagement
42:31 The Challenge of Collaboration
48:39 Setting Boundaries in Creative Input
52:02 The Journey of Confidence
54:50 Preparation and Clarity in Collaboration
58:01 Grounding Techniques for Creative Confidence
01:01:12 Embracing Problems as Opportunities
01:04:53 Growth Mindset and Self-Belief
01:09:00 The Power of Affirmations and Mantras
01:12:04 Vulnerability and Courage in Leadership

Creators and Guests

Host

Jen Porter

Corporate leader turned entrepreneur, I created "Lioness Conversations" to amplify the voices of extraordinary women—leaders who have faced fear, overcome challenges, and are now shaping the world with their work. This podcast is a space for courage, truth, and deep inspiration. My mission is to empower women to be brave, leading with confidence and joy, to do the most meaningful work of their lives.

Guest

Bola Gbadebo

Bola is a filmmaker, poet and former news anchor who works to foster more empathy in her community by capturing shared experiences. Her work centers on real people and raw stories to show that we have more things in common than we do apart. After some years in the newsroom, she now creates human-interest films that explore complex, societal themes like confidence, love, forgiveness and identity, all with one goal in mind: connection.

What is Lioness Conversations: Brave Stories of Women Leaders & Female Founders | Women leading with confidence, empowerment, entrepreneurship, innovation, impact?

Welcome to Lioness Conversations, the podcast dedicated to uncovering and celebrating the extraordinary stories of women who embody fierce strength, tender hearts, and a relentless drive to make a difference in the world. 🦁✨

Leadership | Empowerment | Women in Business | Women Entrepreneurs | Female CEOs | Female Founders | Women-led Businesses | Glass Ceiling | Mentorship for Women | Venture Capital for Women | Female Leadership Development | Innovation | Entrepreneurial Women | Breaking Barriers | Role Models | Women in Tech | Female Business Owners | Women-owned Startups | Networking Opportunities

Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, Lioness, welcome to the show, Lioness Conversations, where we help women be brave to lead with confidence and joy and to find your path to the most meaningful work of your life. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women who are ready to change the world. You can find out more about the Lioness community and the work that I do at jenportorcoach.com. You can also nominate

a lioness for this podcast and yes, you can nominate yourself. So today I want to welcome back Bola Gbadebo Bola, if you remember and you heard episode 15, is a visionary artist who after an impactful career as a news anchor, now uses film and poetry to sculpt profound human stories and cultivate empathy within our communities.

Bola Gbadebo (00:33)
you

Jen Porter (00:56)
Her insightful work captures raw, unfiltered moments, illuminating the powerful truth that our common threads bind us more tightly than our differences, all with the unwavering intention of sparking connection. Bola, welcome back to the show.

Bola Gbadebo (01:13)
Thank you. Thank you. You said that so beautifully.

Jen Porter (01:16)
Thank you. I mean, your

work is beautiful. And it's one of the reasons that I wanted you to come back. You know, where all this came from this, you know, return to the lioness conversations podcast is, um, I shared with you that I was going to be doing coaching on the podcast live coaching. And you said, I'd love to do that. And I was like, really? You would love to do that. And so I explained what it was and you really got it. You understood.

the value and the essence of what I want to bring to the world through these conversations. So you, for those of you who don't know the story, Bola's story, you have, you are a freaking lioness. You have made really bold moves in your life. You've taken major risks. You've changed your career multiple times. You've overcome a lot of challenges.

And you still are, right? Just like all of us, you're overcoming. And there are some things that you wanna work on today. So if you haven't listened to Bola's story, please go back and do that. It's a beautiful story that is directly from her words. It's in episode 15. So Bola, tell us what made you say yes to ⁓ this idea of doing coaching, live coaching with me.

Bola Gbadebo (02:36)
Well, ⁓ inherently a walking paradox, that is what I am. That is what human beings are. I mean, just having that just knowledge, there are things in my life where it would help to have the perspective of someone explain, you know, why certain things are or how to break certain things despite knowing, you know, where they're rooted from. And just having this be a public thing is...

Jen Porter (02:42)
Mmm.

Bola Gbadebo (03:05)
is something that I think can help other people too. And so doing this live session with you is exciting because it's not just helping me, but hopefully someone out there and the problems that I deal with are not unique to me. So I know they will help other people.

Jen Porter (03:17)
Yeah.

Yeah. And you know, this is a brave step for you, Bola. I mean, I commend you for your willingness to, to show up and engage and try something new. This is new for me too. I mean, this is my craft. This is what I do every day as a coach, but I don't do it publicly. It's always in this, it's in this sacred container where there are no witnesses to it. It's just me and another human or a group. ⁓

Bola Gbadebo (03:23)
Wow. ⁓

Jen Porter (03:46)
of women who are doing this work together. And so I thought, I want to bring this forward so that other people can benefit because there's so much that we gain. I mean, how much do we listen to where we're gaining knowledge and insight and wisdom and aha moments from listening to someone else have a conversation. And I want to do the same for others and bringing real issues that ⁓ somebody wants to be coached on to the podcast.

Thank you for being brave in this. I'm being brave too. We're doing it together. So tell me, what is, well first of all, what are your expectations? what, you know, when you imagined doing this, what was going through your head?

Bola Gbadebo (04:19)
Yes.

⁓

I don't think I came with any expectations. I just know the topic that I would like to discuss with you, I truly don't know what, you know, and maybe I did it on purpose. I didn't want to set a standard because it's not about, and I'll focus on the standard that I created. I want it to be open-minded in doing this with you and then that'll keep me open-minded in what I take away from it.

Jen Porter (04:47)
Yeah.

Well, it is how you operate because you come from a place of wanting to learn, you're a person who always is wanting to develop and you are a curious person. So that openness to just step into something new, I'm reminded of ⁓ the ⁓ play, the drama that you just were part of that you said yes to.

Bola Gbadebo (04:59)
Yeah.

that's yes that is happening in a couple weeks No July 24th through August 3rd, that is is when it's gonna take place it is around the corner

Jen Porter (05:20)
It hasn't happened yet.

I just, thought it

was already, for some reason I thought it was already done. Okay. So, um, tell the audience what, what that is.

Bola Gbadebo (05:34)
Yes, for those who are in the central Oregon area, or if you're not, and you like musicals, you should come. But ⁓ I am in a musical called Voiceless, a musical. It's very powerful. It's very beautiful. I don't want to give it away. ⁓ But it follows just a short narrative. It follows a woman who's trying to keep her business afloat and she has tough relationships with her mother and she loses her ability to speak because of the pressures of life. But she learns to express herself through song. And it's just a very powerful thing because there are elements.

in her life that will likely relate to every single person in that room. And so it's a powerful play, it's a beautiful play. I'm an ensemble character. I lead two songs, learning how to sing because of it. So yeah, it's amazing.

Jen Porter (06:17)
Incredible.

And it's, so Dina Kam is the, who birthed this into existence and she invited you. So she was a guest on the podcast. I can't remember what episode, but she recommended you as a lioness to me. And she also invited you into that experience that you didn't, mean, it wasn't on your radar to be on stage.

Bola Gbadebo (06:24)
Yes.

Yes, yes.

It wasn't

on my radar, I didn't even try out. It's so funny though, because at the beginning of the year, I remember saying to myself, I wanna be in a musical. And yeah, I just knew that I wanted to be in one. I wrote it down somewhere, totally forgot I said that. Don't know where I wrote it down, I really don't. And then she told me she was doing this and I'm like, she told me this has been a long time coming, but it wasn't on my radar, it's like something to be a part of. ⁓ I watched her workshop.

Jen Porter (06:53)
Really?

Bola Gbadebo (07:13)
And it was amazing, which was like a truncated version of this musical. And then I was like, man, that would be wonderful to be a part of, but they already were casted, everything was set. I'm like, no, it's okay, I'll watch it. ⁓ And then she reached out to me and she said, hey, you know, we need to replace a character. It's just a small part. Do you mind being in it? And I'm like, absolutely. And now I'm in this musical, mind you. And yes, I will say this, it's not a small part.

Jen Porter (07:36)
system.

Bola Gbadebo (07:42)
But I'm happy to be a part of this. it's out of, I mean, this is one of the most beautiful musicals I've ever witnessed. And so to actually be a part of it is just, it's mind blowing to me. So I told Dina, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to land this role the right way, the way you envision it. Yeah.

Jen Porter (08:01)
That's incredible. I am so

inspired by you right now. And there's a concept that I want to pull out for listeners because I have seen this over and over and it is so mysterious, I can't explain it. But when we write things down, when we write an intention, we have a desire and we, I think not just think it.

Bola Gbadebo (08:06)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (08:25)
Yes, saying it absolutely does the same thing, but writing it too. It can come to be in a way that we could never really explain. It's remarkable. It's just an incredible way to live life, is to put ourselves out there in those ways, not knowing how in the world it's gonna happen. And then it does. There you go. Right, why not? Why would we not write these amazing things down?

Bola Gbadebo (08:45)
It's so amazing and I've been writing a lot of things down so I can't wait. ⁓

Jen Porter (08:53)
So tell me what you want to be coached on. What do want to focus on today?

Bola Gbadebo (08:59)
Ooh, I would say one of the topics that are most relevant in my life right now is overthinking. Overthinking and also having a very creative spirit and a creative mind and a lot of ambition and a big vision, but getting trapped in this cyclical line of thoughts where it doesn't actually produce action is very harmful to productivity. And it's very harmful to creative agency. It really just stops creativity in its tracks.

And so that is something that I'm having a lot of realizations about it, about myself in this process of overthinking, especially the more responsibility I take on, the more of a hindrance it's becoming. And I'm realizing things about it. And I'm like, wow, I really need to overcome this or else it's going to harm everything, opportunities, relationships, and just self-perception.

There's so much we tie to ourselves and so our inability to follow through with things or the things we think about ourselves when we ruminate because they're usually not at least I would say from my experience my rumination doesn't come from a place of of like let me think of all the possible solutions and let it let it be Constructive it's more what's already happened conversations and how they mean we feel but these things are old they're old things I can't change the past

Or there are things I want, but I'm not sure how to get it. But instead of focusing on the present, which I can actively examine, you know, ways to achieve something, it's like overwhelming because I'm too far ahead. And so I'm not really thinking of solutions. I'm thinking of what I want to achieve, but how it's so big and it's crushing and then it can make me feel small. And so I would say overthinking is just, it's a beast. It's a trap.

Jen Porter (10:49)
Yes.

So it sounds like you're in the past with your thinking and you're also in the future and you're thinking, but you're not always in the present to be able to take the action that you want to.

Bola Gbadebo (10:59)
The present is the anxiety. That's what I feel in the present because my thoughts are just not there. They're over there and they're back there and they're over here. And the thing that I feel presently is just kind of like an after taste or after effect of all those other things I'm thinking about.

Jen Porter (11:15)
I mean your mind is, I mean you are a brilliant person so it makes sense that there's a lot of ideas that are flowing through your mind but I'm hearing you say that there's, there's a, you want to be more on the productive side of how your brain is serving you and what you want to do and moving towards your ambition as opposed to the unproductive type of overthinking that can get us stuck and really paralyze us.

Bola Gbadebo (11:30)
Why? Why?

Yeah, it makes things bigger because when I think about it, it's funny because I'm always doing new things and I'm always trying to stretch. So there is an inherent friction there, right? Because it's like, you want to stretch, you're doing new things. So you're constantly in a mode where things are scary, but then this, the fear creates stagnation. So there's my desire. And then there's the situations I put myself in because I'm doing these things. ⁓ it's, it's a complex responsibility.

It's a complex thing. ⁓ I can go on, so I'm going to let you dive into it.

Jen Porter (12:14)
So I have a lot of questions.

let's start with what is it that where are you being held back right now? Where's the over overthinking happening today?

Bola Gbadebo (12:25)
Okay, ooh. I don't know if held back is how I'm thinking about it, but even something as my creative, we'll start with the most obvious when it comes to career related, because that is where most of my focus has been, building my business, creating films, working on promotional videos for companies that are story-driven. A lot of it comes in, there's this, as a creative, there are so many ways to do something wrong.

And there's so many ways to do something right. And for me, being new to this field as a news anchor, there was a standard. There's some creative agency, but there's a standard. There's a system, you know, to follow. I've always been creative, but to operate now without a system. And then also I'm doing this for businesses, for other people. It's like, wait a minute, what structure, what structure do I need to follow to make sure that this is presented?

in the same vision and the same light. And I've done this a billion times over. So I don't know. It's funny. I don't know where the fear comes from, but I think it's just having being in a position where now the agency and responsibility is fully and solely on me and I create the standard. And even though I've created visions and products and ⁓ film that align with other people's vision.

Jen Porter (13:43)
Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (13:50)
there's something that creates this fear. What if I, what if it's completely wrong? Like what if I don't make the best possible decision? And what is the best possible decision? It doesn't exist.

Jen Porter (14:04)
You know what I hear is that this

⁓ is the next step in your growth because you're branching out from where the standards were set for you in some ways. You still had to take creative liberty and there probably wasn't as much structure as you would have wanted in some of the places where you've worked that would help more. I just know a little bit back, right? But this is a place where you're stepping into your own more.

Bola Gbadebo (14:23)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Porter (14:33)
You've already done it, but more of your work and projects are your own. There's so much creative liberty that you're starting to question. I would actually challenge the right and wrong piece where you said as a creative, there's so many things, there's so many ways that we can do things. I thought you were going to stop there. There are so many ways that we can do things, but you said there's so many ways we can do things, right?

And there's so many ways that we can do things wrong. And so that's a challenge, right, to our mindset of right and wrong. But now the opportunity that I see for you is there's a chance for you to establish your own structures, your own systems, your own process. And when you have that stability around you, it could allow for more freedom of creativity.

Bola Gbadebo (15:12)
Yeah. Yeah.

Here's the funny thing. I do not want that in my heart. I did not want that. Therefore I left that situation. And that's the, that is the, so when I'm expressing this, I'm expressing a problem I'm having, but it's a problem that I've chosen to have. I want this problem, which is really funny. not everybody.

Jen Porter (15:36)
Okay.

Yeah.

And

when you say you left it and you're choosing this, you're talking about structure and systems?

Bola Gbadebo (16:00)
Yes, I left the structure I was in because it wasn't gratifying, it wasn't benefiting myself and others the way that I envision impact and the way I want to help people. The only other way to fix that is to create your own standard and structure that helps yourself and people. And so in the process of following that very vision and impact, I very much stand by are all these thoughts where that is just part of the pizza. I don't know what else to think.

to call it, it's part of the pizza. It just comes, it's part of the toppings and all that. And yet it's so, like, there's so much gravity. Like, wait a minute, I don't know why it's so shocking. It shouldn't be shocking because that is what I asked for, that is what I want, and that is the problem I wanna solve. And somehow it's creating the stagnation.

Jen Porter (16:50)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I mean, that's a big shift. It's a big shift to go from being within, call them corporate structures, like you're in a system. And there are a lot of things that are already established that we step into when we're in a corporation or an organization. And it is limiting, but it's actually, a lot of people love the safety of it. Like, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. What are the rules? And I'll follow them. Creatives, you know, often feel really stuck by that. And so.

Bola Gbadebo (16:55)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (17:22)
They, you know, it's like, I remember when I moved into coaching, like one of my favorite things was that there was no corporate agenda that I was attached to. It was all about helping the client thrive in whatever ways were important to them. That was freedom. And I loved it, but I had to find my own way of how am I going to, it's like, it's like this, right? And we've before we jumped on, I said, I needed to think through what is the framework for this? I've never done this before.

Bola Gbadebo (17:37)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (17:50)
What is the framework? Enough, just enough structure that it guides us through an experience in the same way that you want to guide yourself and your clients.

Bola Gbadebo (17:50)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I like how you said just enough. think that's very pivotal to at least how I think about things and how that is so grounding for me because even like writing my business plan, I was trying to do like my five year and my 10 year. like, how the hell am I supposed to know what next year is going to look like? I don't know where I got that audacity, but it's the realism of just enough for where you're at with what you know, because that's naturally going to evolve with experience. And I have to pull myself back to that reality. like, Hey,

Jen Porter (18:03)
Thank

Bola Gbadebo (18:31)
Honestly, things can change so quickly. What are your next five stops? And let's pause, let's create that. So I love that you said just now.

Jen Porter (18:33)
Yeah.

Yes.

How would that work for you to create just your next five steps?

Bola Gbadebo (18:47)
what I'm doing and all this is new and it sounds so simple and it is, but to practice it in this capacity in my life now, I have so many tasks every day and I'm starting to realize how daunting that is because I've seen some things on that task list that has been there for like a month and it just drives me crazy. I'm like, it's still there. I don't even think it's that hard to do. So why is it still there? ⁓

Jen Porter (19:08)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Bola Gbadebo (19:15)
But in the bigger scheme of the list, it's just so many things. I'm starting to be more reasonable with, okay, one, two things today. Even if it's just one, even if it's just planning for one that I don't even complete, let me be okay with that. But I have to convince myself to be okay with that because what happens is it's hard for me to be okay with having 24 hours in a day and spending like five hours planning something and only getting like a sentence out.

That's hard for me to do because it feels so behind. But that's a standard and a complex I created all on my own. And it's not realistic. it's trying to be more honest with myself about how much I can actually achieve in a time frame ⁓ and how much I need to learn to even get to where I want to go. I have to learn so much. And I almost try to skip that.

Jen Porter (20:12)
Mm-hmm. And the learning piece, is that just because things are new?

Bola Gbadebo (20:17)
They're new and I'm learning even what to learn. Like a recent project I did, was so, I did such a wonderful video. The company loved it. But I realized there's a big difference between doing ⁓ social media, you know, type video projects and then having it ready for like television commercials. And like, that's a whole different price point. That's a whole different set of standards, expectations and licensing. ⁓ But even learning that in the process of finding out what their vision was.

I like, you know, I need to do a better job fact-finding in the beginning, because now this is new information for me, which changed the format of how to present this. And so it's learning what to learn too.

Jen Porter (20:58)
Let me, I've got a thought that I want to ask. Did you feel this way when you were a news reporter?

Bola Gbadebo (21:03)
bit.

I felt gravity. I felt a lot of gravity and anxiety. In some senses, yes, because it was something new, but I'm more excited now and it's because it's my thing and I've already proven to myself I'm capable of it. And I've gotten also the external confirmation that like people desire what I'm doing. So I have kind of more of a stepping stone. Now the scary part is I have to do it all by myself or at least I think I do.

And, that's not necessarily true. are research resources to utilize, which is something I'm also learning. But the part, what I'm, what I'm having a hard time really figuring out is, how do I say this? It's not a hard time figuring it out. I understand it, but it goes back to creating everything myself, figuring out what to learn, at least in a structure or corporate environment.

Hey, you need to be able to do these tasks. You need to be able to understand this system or you use this up until a certain time. This is the deadline here. It's like, oh no, bull. You just realized that deadline doesn't work. Okay. Let's rework it from the top. You're creating your business. That's what I'm doing. so, and any entrepreneur knows, or you don't even have to be an entrepreneur to understand that, but it is fascinating because I'm not used to that. And so there's so many things I'm learning that I'm doing wrong.

so many things I'm learning that I'm right. I'm going back to this dynamic. And I don't wanna say wrong in terms of, bad, like shouldn't have done it. But it's one of those things where I don't wanna do it again. It didn't work and I don't wanna do it again because it could have, luckily I'm early in my journey, but that could have detrimental effects later.

Jen Porter (22:40)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Like it didn't work.

What are your expectations of yourself?

Bola Gbadebo (23:01)
They're extremely high. The way you looked at me, I could already tell, like, what's going on up here? ⁓ They're high. They're high. And I think that's part of just not knowing where to measure myself. And so naturally, I think I'm just, I don't know. And I think that's part of my process of finding out, like, what is, is there a standard? What is the standard? And how does that operate? How do I operate in my own field?

Jen Porter (23:04)
Hehehehe

Bola Gbadebo (23:30)
But naturally, think I'm just like, again, I'm trying to like get to that level and then I realized, all these learning, that takes time.

Jen Porter (23:39)
It does. If you were to name, so this is like just being really honest with yourself.

Bola Gbadebo (23:45)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (23:47)
If you were to name those expectations that you hold, what are those? What do you expect of yourself?

Bola Gbadebo (23:55)
in my work or just like my values. ⁓

Jen Porter (23:58)
All of it. Like the thing

that you're pointing to is here, like I'm raising my hand above my head, because you said this is your standard. Your standard is super high. So underneath that standard, what exists?

Bola Gbadebo (24:11)
Hmm.

see a question. Underneath that standard. What exists? How do I answer that?

Well, the first thing that comes to mind, I'm not sure if this answers it exactly, but we'll start here. I want my work in line with who I am to be authentically presented. So I'm not in any rush to present generic trash. ⁓ That is what I don't want to do. Authenticity is first and foremost, what I want to create. And I think that alone.

can create such a setback for me sometimes because I'm so busy in my mind trying to not be basic or too digestible to the point where it's like there's no value or too, you know, it's like, I want this to be meaningful for people. But then I also understand meaningful is subjective. And so I get kind of hung up there because I want to be true in my stuff.

But authenticity is definitely up there. ⁓ I want to create the best possible option within the options that I'm given or understand at the time. The problem with that is that there's always more to learn. So I know that there's always more options. So when I choose one, I want to keep re-choosing one until I choose one that's better and better and better. with that mindset, it's like, okay, you're not making a choice or you're not making a choice fast enough.

⁓ yeah, I would say like even the editing process and editing is very tedious and I love the patience I take with it. But some things people can do in five minutes, like, come on, just make a decision. Go. like, no, this has to be like, I can hear that one millisecond of a sound that should not be there. And I'm going to spend two days trying to fix it. You know, and it's just like, it's the costs now are outweighing, think.

Jen Porter (26:03)
Mm.

Bola Gbadebo (26:25)
some of those benefits that I see coming in. And that's always a rough place to be, because you want, in a way, you're searching for perfection. And I should stop saying you, because I'm talking about myself, in a way, I'm searching for perfection. But it's like, OK, now it's becoming a hindrance. And I have to go back to cost-benefit analysis. It's like, is it worth it now? Yeah.

Jen Porter (26:44)
Yeah.

Yeah,

I hear excellence and quality is a desire of yours. That the product is excellent, quality is super high. And excellence is different than perfection. I actually think perfection is a farce, that it doesn't exist, and it's a waste of energy to try to attain it, but excellence is something that's pursuable.

Bola Gbadebo (26:58)
Yeah, absolutely. I want it to be excellent.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would say those are, now I don't know if I'm being healthy with the excellence, but the thing is it, the funny thing is, and this is why I probably still think in the trap that I do sometimes is because by the time I'm done through that mental gymnastics, it's a great product and it's, it's exactly what I wanted to present. And so it's like all that stress led me to that. So I need that stress.

Jen Porter (27:47)
Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (27:49)
And that's what my mind and my body tells me sometimes.

Jen Porter (27:51)
⁓ So the documentary confidence that you

created and produced.

How was that process for you?

Bola Gbadebo (28:05)
That was fun. I don't feel like the stakes were very high. ⁓ And what I'm doing is still very fun, but there were no contracts involved. There was no risk. I made a film. I presented it to the community. They loved it. But whether it was a good film or a bad film, it flopped or it didn't flop. There was no risk. There was no accountability really that had to, of course I want to present great work. And I did. And I think that peace of mind,

allowed me to follow through with that and create something that means something to people. But it's like.

Jen Porter (28:38)
The piece,

let me pause there. The peace of mind. Where did that come from? The peace of mind with that documentary. Where was that?

Bola Gbadebo (28:41)
Yeah

I was covering a subject that meant a lot to me. I was, and I was interviewing people that gave me so much insight and it was just a free flow conversation. There were no expectations really from their end. had no idea what they were going to be a part of. And I had no idea how far I wanted to take this. It was just like a creative process. And that's it. And, ⁓ when there's no risk involved like that, it's so much easier to present excellent work.

Jen Porter (29:07)
Hmm.

Bola Gbadebo (29:17)
⁓

Jen Porter (29:19)
I would guess that there was risk in that project. just was a different risk.

It took a lot of, well, it took risk. was risky to put yourself out there in that way. I know it was risky to take on the endeavor of creating a documentary by yourself. was risky to put your heart and soul into that work and to present it to your community. The risk in this new business adventure seems like it's just different.

Bola Gbadebo (29:33)
⁓ Yes,

Jen Porter (29:57)
You're still showing up, so there's still some vulnerability there, but you're talking about contracts, liabilities, expectations. That part probably feels risky in a different way now.

Bola Gbadebo (30:09)
Yeah, now I'm not, ⁓ well, I'm still assuming all the risk, but it's shared risk. Does that make sense?

Jen Porter (30:17)
How so?

Bola Gbadebo (30:19)
Well, it's a partnership between you and now somebody else. So those expectations I had just for me, molding my vision, changing it, messing up, fixing it, that was just me and I was the one creating it. So I was okay with my own risk. I was okay at putting myself at jeopardy. Now, when it comes to other people, you know, it's just, and it's,

Hmm. This is interesting. Because I'm always working with other people. But for some reason, this just feels bigger and...

just scarier.

I don't quite, I can't quite explain why, because even in the sense of saying, it's my business and it's just me and I'm a one person, one woman band. I've worked with people all the time, especially as a news anchor and a news reporter, you're still taking on the story of somebody else that you're presenting on television and that's risk in itself. So yeah.

Jen Porter (31:17)
Yeah, yeah,

you've always faced risks.

Bola Gbadebo (31:21)
I'm always,

yeah, and this is, I convince myself all types of things. So you're helping me pull out these narratives that are sometimes conflicting.

Jen Porter (31:33)
interested in the word that you used when you talked about the difference between doing it on your own and doing it for a company. You said partnerships. These are partnerships.

How does that partnership feel for you today?

Bola Gbadebo (31:49)
They're actually great. That's so funny. It's great. This is why I said, this is why I introduced this as like I'm a walking paradox because it's almost like there is no real problem here. This is a problem again that I've taken on knowing that it would be something I have to work through. But the anxiety, I don't know where it comes from exactly. ⁓ And maybe this is why I feel like I'm going in circles now because it's just like.

Okay, I'm saying these things, but there's this anxious thing and like, the partnerships and the working with people and the accountability and what if it doesn't match their vision, but it's like, well, that's, that's kind of normal. So I don't.

Jen Porter (32:30)
What are you noticing?

Bola Gbadebo (32:32)
I'm noticing that I'm choosing anxiety. I'm choosing anxiety based on a risk that's natural and expected. And it's because I think deep down, it's like, if I'm not? When I created my film, my standard of excellence fell on me. When I'm creating stuff for other people, the standard of excellence can change depending on them.

Jen Porter (33:01)
Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (33:03)
And I think maybe that is creating the anxiety a little bit. And it hasn't, I haven't even been in a situation where despite that, it wasn't the product was an issue or wasn't liked. So I've already proven that despite the changing or shift in accountability or risk or whatever you want to call it, doesn't, didn't mean anything. didn't translate to anything negative.

Jen Porter (33:08)
Sure.

Do you see yourself as a leader?

Bola Gbadebo (33:32)
Yes.

I do, I do. I think my actions tell me I am. I think if I were to sit with myself, I have trouble saying that to myself. But then I look at everything I do and I clearly am.

Jen Porter (33:51)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (33:52)
And it was very interesting to me.

Jen Porter (33:56)
What do you see in that?

Bola Gbadebo (34:00)
I see a reservation to take on roles, but I already do it. I do it in my community, I do it in my job, I do it in my friendships, and people literally come up to me and tell me how I've impacted their life or how they look up to me. So it's something I would think I would be more readily able to say, but for some reason there is that weird...

Like I'm doing all the leadership things. I'm learning the leadership skill and having the workshops and all that and still.

Jen Porter (34:35)
Yeah.

What does the word guide mean to you if you were to imagine yourself as a guide in your work?

Bola Gbadebo (34:48)
to imagine myself as a guide

Jen Porter (34:50)
in these partnerships.

Bola Gbadebo (34:59)
I don't like it. I don't want to be a guide. I want to take over the project and utilize my creative vision. A guide simply like mosey something along. That's how I'm thinking of it. It's like here are your possibilities and presenting to you and you make the choice. I'm like, no, I want to bring this to life. And that's very much a leadership quality. I want to take that.

Jen Porter (35:01)
Thank you.

So tell me more about that.

for us.

Bola Gbadebo (35:28)
and make it my own and work with you to make it wonderful, but I want to be in this.

Jen Porter (35:37)
Such conviction.

Bola Gbadebo (35:39)
I absolutely, 100 % like, yeah.

Jen Porter (35:40)
Wow.

That was incredible conviction and passion that just showed up.

Bola Gbadebo (35:49)
Yeah, because I know that despite my roundabout thoughts, I very much have a gift and a talent and I have the aptitude to bring these things to life. So whether I believe it or not, with whatever circumstance I'm in, I know I have it.

Jen Porter (36:08)
And it is proven.

Bola Gbadebo (36:10)
And it is proven. So it's almost silly to like not use it, even if I don't believe it. ⁓

Jen Porter (36:17)
Let's give

a specific example of when did you last have this anxious, this anxiety, overthinking?

Give me an example.

Bola Gbadebo (36:32)
let's see. I would just say like, give you a specific example. ⁓ Anxiety, overthinking. What was the last thing I was overthinking about?

Okay, my Haiku buttons, it's business related. ⁓ but I've created different like proposals on how to distribute my Haiku because it's something that really resonates with my community and I love writing them. So I created buttons and, ⁓ my ideal vision is to work with coffee shops and bookstores and, ⁓ places where literature is very appreciated, but also like

Jen Porter (37:00)
Yep.

Bola Gbadebo (37:24)
I did a little tea program and with a coffee shop, you know, it's like, they get a haiku with their coffee and it really builds that connection and customer service. thought of Dutch Bros because they thrive off customer service. I'm like, would be ideal if they listened, just let me know I'm coming. But I've created all these proposals and things like that. And the anxiety comes from these are really great ideas. These are great concepts. And I'm building them.

Jen Porter (37:39)
You

Bola Gbadebo (37:56)
Can I carry them out? Do I have, is it just proof of concept? And I don't think it's so much can I, I can, but is it, will they see that vision too? Or is it just an idea? Because to me, I'm very convicted and I think this is beautiful, are they, is it just proof of concept right now? And do people wanna hop on board with just concept?

And it's just building something that appeals to people and creating a proposal strong enough for them to share that vision with me. And that was giving me anxiety because it's new. Again, it's new. I don't know anyone doing that with haiku or poetry and like, they're trying to work with shops to like do something creative with it, not just sell it. ⁓ So I'm just thinking of ways to integrate this in the community in a way that really resonates with them.

Jen Porter (38:36)
Yes.

What's your very next step with the haiku buttons?

Bola Gbadebo (38:58)
⁓ well, seeing that a lot of our businesses that I would like to work with are small and independently owned and realizing, especially when it comes to coffee shops, that their operating budget or their budget doesn't typically cover beyond expenses. And so it's, it's, it's a hard sell, even though there's a general intrigue, it's a hard sell to spend more money on something that isn't giving. You know, like an immediate return rather it's more loyalty, customer loyalty, or, know, give a token, they'll come back for the next one. And so it's,

It's one of those things where I'm like, okay, clearly it's a great concept. People like it. Everybody said they're interested. It's a money issue. So how can I present this haiku in a different format? And so now I'm thinking stickers because stickers are far more cost effective. They don't have this effect as a haiku button, which I like to wear every day. I wear them every day. mine says somewhere in the doubt, you dipped your foot in water.

Jen Porter (39:50)
What does first say?

Bola Gbadebo (39:58)
then started to swim.

Jen Porter (40:00)
Will you say that again slower?

Bola Gbadebo (40:03)
Somewhere in the doubt, you dipped your foot in water, then started to swim.

So,

Jen Porter (40:17)
Just

your story in that haiku.

Bola Gbadebo (40:22)
I know which is I mean a lot of them come from shared experiences a lot of them come from me, you know, I'm writing them so my own lens So very much despite what I'm expressing There is a there is awareness here. It's not just I don't know and this is such a foreign experience It's an experience that I understand is is normal. It's common and yet it's it feels

uncomfortable. And I think I'm just talking through the discomfort of like, wow, this is, this is what it is. How do I act?

Jen Porter (40:54)
Yeah.

What do you do when, well, let me get back to the high Q buttons example that you gave. What were you doing when you started to feel anxious?

Bola Gbadebo (41:09)
what was I doing or how did I respond to my, ⁓ I?

Jen Porter (41:13)
What was

the moment that caused the anxiety for you to feel that? What was that moment?

Bola Gbadebo (41:22)
What, I don't know if there was a marker.

Mmm.

If there was a marker, don't particularly remember what may have triggered it.

It must have been.

creating, implementing it into my business plan and then trying to think too far ahead of it before I even got like a affirmative answer response from any company yet. And so I'm like, is this going to sit? Is it going to hold? Am I creating all this just out of what? I don't know.

Jen Porter (42:05)
Interesting.

So because I'm imagining that the ideation part for you is really energizing.

Bola Gbadebo (42:11)
Yeah, yeah, it's fun. I love it.

Jen Porter (42:14)
And then there's a point in time where it starts to get unfun.

Bola Gbadebo (42:22)
Yeah, it's the other people. It's the, okay, now I need to appeal to the one outside my mind.

Jen Porter (42:31)
It's this, okay, I'm seeing a pattern here with these couple of examples that you've given of how do you share your vision? How do you cast a vision so that other people can grab hold of it and become partners in the work with you?

Bola Gbadebo (42:49)
Is that the question?

Jen Porter (42:51)
It's an observation. Does that resonate?

Bola Gbadebo (42:53)
Okay, yeah, I

that's very, very true. I think I struggle with, when I'm thinking of myself or how I present, it's wonderful, it's great, it's fun, and it naturally appeals to people. I'm like, great, and they like it along the way. Now, if I start to think of the planning process and ideation with someone else in mind, it gets a little convoluted.

Jen Porter (43:10)
Yeah.

Give me an example of that, because that's a very interesting point in the process of, as a business owner, taking ideas, sharing them. It sounds like you're really effective in sharing the idea and getting people excited about it, but there's something that happens when you start to move toward making it reality.

Bola Gbadebo (43:36)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (43:43)
that gets you hung up. give me an example, whether it's something you're producing for a company or this haiku button example.

Bola Gbadebo (43:54)
okay, I gotta think here.

⁓ We'll do a film idea for a company. ⁓ Like creating the vision. Okay. I'm gonna ask you to rephrase your question one more time. I wanna make sure I hit the mark here.

Jen Porter (44:07)
Okay.

Yeah,

so what I'm noticing is that there's a point in time along the timeline of a project where you get hung up. It's not in the ideation. It's not even in the vision casting to other people. It sounds like it's when other people enter in. And then there's some sort of anxiety that comes in.

Or maybe it's like an overreach by other people that sort of messes with your vibe and your own vision. And it stops you from moving forward when other people enter in. And so that's what I'm like, what's the specific point in time that you can remember where those other people start to come in to making this a reality that gets you stuck?

Bola Gbadebo (45:11)
Hmm, okay. I'll even go back to my confidence film. That one, that was solely my idea. ⁓ But in the process, you know, I would ask for insight or I would show someone and some creatives, some not so creative because I wanted to see how this would have impacted different people of different fields and such.

Jen Porter (45:15)
Okay.

Bola Gbadebo (45:37)
When, am I thinking about this? I think it could be challenging. It has been challenging when somebody shared their creative vision that was in contrast with my own. Like, but what if we try this completely different thing? Or have you thought of, you know, taking this element out and it's something that I like, right? No, that's like, that brings the power. That brings the emotion. That brings the empathy.

they didn't see it. And I'm like, well, is it that they don't see it? Or is there something that now I'm not seeing that, or maybe I'm holding on too tightly to something that really is just impactful for me, but maybe it doesn't have the impact for others that I'm feeling and maybe I need to reconsider that element in my film. And it's a second guess, essentially. And I don't like doing that because I think when I'm by myself,

Jen Porter (46:08)
Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (46:36)
and I present it by myself, it's great. And I'm saying that based on feedback, but it's like, but now I'm considering, and that's just how my mind works and other people give me input. I don't write it off. And maybe that is a boundary thing with knowing which input to write off and which one not to, but a lot of times I'm thinking about it. And that can also lead to rumination. I'm like, okay, now something I wasn't even thinking about before I'm spending another eight hours debating.

Should I keep it like this? Should I keep it like that? Should I change the color? No.

Jen Porter (47:06)
interesting. So what I'm seeing is that you actually trust

yourself a ton, but when other people offer their input, you feel like you should consider it, not dismiss it, but then it sort of sends you into a spinning in your own mind.

Bola Gbadebo (47:25)
We can, and this is why I would challenge the trust yourself a lot because I do trust myself by myself. I do great on my own. And I think that's since childhood. I think I told you in the first interview, I spent so much time alone. So I never really had a standard outside of myself. And so now it's like when I'm asking, getting opinions and hearing all these different standards and other people's expectations and visions, I don't think I really developed a keen sense of how to filter it. And so.

It's like, do I need to take all this or do I need to push it all away or how do I find that in between? And so I think that's where I struggle because I'll have a great idea and then I'll get a lot of input. And then I'm like, maybe my vision is off or maybe my vision is incomplete or maybe I wasn't telling a fuller story. And the thing is creativity is so subjective. It's like, and this goes back to my earlier statement. Maybe there maybe wrong is the wrong word. There's so many ways to do something. And I think that is a good point.

And so because there are so many ways to do it, their way isn't necessarily wrong either. And so now I'm like, ⁓ do I need to really consider that? Or was my vision strong enough to carry out what I'm trying to do?

Jen Porter (48:29)
Right?

I wanna make a suggestion.

Bola Gbadebo (48:42)
Absolutely.

Jen Porter (48:43)
And tell me if you think this would support you when you're in the middle of a project like this. What if, and it goes to boundaries, it goes to input, a lot of different things. What if when you're presenting, like you have an agreement, you're gonna create something for them, you're sharing what it is that you're creating, you're maybe casting the vision along the way. But at the point that you're sharing something that you've already produced for their input, or at least review,

you let them know where you're looking for specific input. In other words, ⁓ and I don't know who it would be in the creative process on the partnership side, and it's not at the point where you're presenting the whole thing and like, okay, this is it, we're done. But along that journey, if you were to have somebody on that partnership side and say, I'm looking for input on this particular piece, on this,

actor on this this language here doesn't the things that you actually do want input on that you're trying to solve for that you want somebody else's perspective on not the other stuff that you're like no this is good like this stuff we don't need to touch but at getting specific with where you actually do want to bring people in to give input would that serve you

Bola Gbadebo (49:56)
Yeah.

I think that's incredibly wise and that's something that would be natural. I think because this is still a new field, the art of filmmaking is so much deeper than a quick news report. I think I'm inviting in more input intentionally because I don't know which way, where to specify yet. Does that make sense?

Jen Porter (50:32)
It does. What I'm thinking is, ⁓ when I think about you as a leader, I'm thinking about how you can show up in a way that is more powerful when you need it to be. So for example, the way that you...

Bola Gbadebo (50:34)
Not saying it's helpful. Yeah.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (50:55)
invite other people into your process and your vision. So crafting, so like if we were working together, right, we had lots of sessions where we could do lots of work to build out your business. ⁓ To the extent that you want to, just enough structure, right, just enough process. ⁓ It would be inviting other people, you're leading them, you're leading the whole group as the expert, and you're inviting them into your process.

This is the stage where I get to show you what I've created to this point. Here are the pieces where I'd like input. And here's the next phase of the process. There's an opportunity for you to use your voice more confidently in how you are leading through these projects so that it works for you, because it's got, it has to.

It has to work for you to for you to bring your best to this craft. But you also have to be in partnership. If the business is paying you to do it right, they have to be involved, obviously, but you get to set the stage for it.

Bola Gbadebo (52:02)
Yeah.

Yeah, and this, that's, that all makes so much sense. I think this goes back to the film, because despite creating a whole film on confidence, there's so many areas, and that is why I was so compelled to create it. By no means was it, did it come out of a place of, I have achieved, I have overcome. It came straight out of, this is what I'm working through. ⁓ And so this is just an example of how

This truly does come back to confidence because if I did walk in with confidence to do that, and I have, and I've done it before, but if I train myself to routinely believe that and enter each room with that same confidence, that's exactly how I would approach things. But it's also, I think part of me is sometimes I do that and I'm still working my way in doing that consistently, but the many times I don't do it. And then I just allow way too much.

And then I'm moving kind of like water, like, ⁓ how do I mold all these things when I should have presented structure, you know?

Jen Porter (53:18)
Yeah, and so I would imagine that preparation for each of these meetings, conversations that you have with these partners is going to be important because part of it is just getting clear on what do I want to get out of this meeting? What's important for me? And what am I asking from them? And if you're not clear going into that conversation, it's really easy to get thrown by all the input because people don't know what it is that...

They don't know what their role is. And so they're gonna step in thinking like, ⁓ I have all these ideas, maybe I should share all of them. Instead of allowing Bola to lead us through this process, but you have to let them know, okay, here's my role in this, here's your role in this. You establish that partnership so that you can give your best.

Bola Gbadebo (53:57)
Yeah, yeah.

Jen Porter (54:17)
So that preparation is almost always for everybody, gonna be what helps lead to confidence. Being really prepared and clear in your own mind about what you wanna get out of it, what you're willing to take, and what you don't need at all.

Bola Gbadebo (54:35)
Yeah, no, mean, it sounds so basic and it is in many ways. And so it's it's funny to know this and it's just an implementation process, I guess.

Jen Porter (54:50)
What would, ⁓ let me ask a different question. How do you wanna feel when you go into these projects, meetings, ⁓ you're presenting ⁓ your film, ⁓ like a sample to somebody, how do you wanna feel in those situations?

Bola Gbadebo (55:15)
Like I have the creative agency to bring someone's vision to life. Like they trust me to do so. Yeah. I think that's really it. It's a level of, this is what you do. We trust it. And that helps me do my thing.

Jen Porter (55:20)
Mmm.

And what if you were to establish that on the front end, like when you're actually in the contract phase with these companies?

Bola Gbadebo (55:38)
Thank you.

Yeah. And I don't want to make it seem like that's not what's already offered.

Jen Porter (55:55)
⁓ is it stated? Like it might be assumed, but is it stated? Are you using your voice to establish these kind of rules of engagement?

Bola Gbadebo (55:56)
You know, like.

No, no, maybe it's assumed. I have to think about this more. That's all I think about this more.

Jen Porter (56:17)
Mm-hmm.

What's coming up?

Bola Gbadebo (56:25)
I don't want to be confusing because when it comes to businesses, I know that it's we've kind of taken the focus there. There's not really a lack of trust there. A lot of this, I think, is in my head because it's Truly, if I'm really breaking this down, it's like these are I'm sharing my thoughts, but on the end of.

Jen Porter (56:50)
Yeah.

Bola Gbadebo (56:54)
of what I'm building, is no, at least hasn't expressed, been expressed to me explicitly. There's no lack of trust. There's no doubt. There's no dissatisfaction from the other end. And when there is outpour of opinion, I do with it what I will. I mean, I still create stuff, but it's not like, it's not over received by me and it's not pushed by them. It's just, it's just what I choose to do with it in my own space. And sometimes what I choose to do with

Jen Porter (57:17)
Mm-hmm.

Bola Gbadebo (57:23)
Extra opinions is not healthy because I'm like I'm trying now to appease all these things that may or may not even be that valuable to them It could have just been thought-shared

Jen Porter (57:33)
Yeah, so

how in those moments where, you know, they've shared stuff, there's input, but you're in the place of taking it to the next phase of production? How can you find your grounding? Because when you're grounded, you're really powerful.

Bola Gbadebo (57:54)
I think that's a good question if I had the answer.

Jen Porter (58:01)
I think you know this.

Bola Gbadebo (58:05)
I think I've done it. I don't know if I'm aware enough to pull this out so frankly. I think I've done a lot of things that probably answer a lot of my qualms. I just, and this is just a matter of self-awareness, I don't think I've taken time to think specifically on, I need to repeat this action in order to mitigate or change this. And so you asking me is making me wonder and I'm trying to pull a specific situation in my mind.

what would ground me, what has grounded me. This will always go back to my faith. I don't know how related that seems, but in just my faith is my grounding point because it's also trusting in my ability because of who gave me my ability. And it's like, well, I already have it. And if I already have it and I believe he's God that will see me through.

then what is all the mental mess about? And that does ground me sometimes. It pulls me back out of like, what are you doing? When you look on the outside, you really have no serious problems. You're just trying to figure something out and that's okay to not know right now. You're figuring it out. That's grounding. It doesn't always, I don't always obey that ⁓ logic. Going into nature can be grounding because it makes me shut off. Like I need to,

Jen Porter (59:26)
you

Bola Gbadebo (59:33)
walk away from my laptop. And when I'm ruminating, I'm on my laptop because I'm like tweaking things and changing things and actively trying to change as I'm thinking and changing things physically. And it creates more things, but I haven't actually come to a solution, gave it a break and came back. And so, but I know I need to do that. So it's.

Jen Porter (59:56)
really strong. mean you just named what works for you, what supports you, and where you are when you're ruminating. So that's super helpful because when you see yourself, I'm overthinking. I am in a place of unproductivity right now because my brain is going in all different directions and it's not actually moving me forward.

That's when you get to step away.

Bola Gbadebo (1:00:28)
Yeah. Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:00:29)
I'm going to step

away. I'm going to go take a walk. I'm going to get in nature. I'm going to tap into my faith and what I know to be true about who I am and who created me.

That's where the grounding happens. That settling, that confidence can reemerge because it's rooted in your identity. You have everything that you need. You actually have everything you need. And then coming back to, let me work on this again. But I'm hearing you say that the solution, like you actually wanna have a solution and then do the work.

Bola Gbadebo (1:01:12)
Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of thoughts there. It doesn't work that way. But I'm trying to work through solution as I'm sitting there ruminating. And there's like different parts of my, that's like two different parts of your brain. So it doesn't work that way. But you're like, you're busy ruminating or you're being creative and allowing anxiety that.

go away so you can focus. And I'm like, I'm doing all of it at once. I'm being anxious and I'm ruminating and then trying to create a solution and then using the 10 % of creativity that's left in all that mess. then, then taking so long to figure something out because I'm activating too many things at once.

Jen Porter (1:01:59)
So when we're in a place of spinning and spiraling and ruminating, I call it, we have to intercept that. There has to be a sort of a coming in and breaking of that cycle, else we'll just continue to spin. And it sounds like for you, that is getting up and walking away.

Bola Gbadebo (1:02:17)
Yeah, but then, then, then I do need to do that more. And I'm very aware that I do need to do that more. But breaking away for some reason creates more anxiety because then I'm thinking it's not getting done. And it's a weird prism. It's false. It's a false narrative. And so why am I acting out of a false narrative? Habit.

Jen Porter (1:02:22)
Bye.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, so.

If you were to take a break, ⁓ there's something about trusting, you're right, there's something about trusting yourself. There's something about confidence that can sort of be elusive in those moments, even though you can access it.

And so my guess is that if you're able to do any kind of grounding, it will support you to then go back to the work and keep going, but in a more productive way. You know that weird thing that when we actually take breaks in our day, we're more productive? Hello, yes. Yeah, like I used to do that as a kid. I get really overwhelmed.

Bola Gbadebo (1:03:33)
Yeah, or naps. Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:03:44)
stress about, you know, all kinds of things, mostly, you know, schoolwork and projects and big deadlines. And I would take a nap or like before a big game. Sometimes I would take a nap and then it would allow me. I just needed to turn my brain off for a bit and rest and then go back to it. And I'd have more energy because I've actually taken the time to rest.

Bola Gbadebo (1:04:09)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that changes the way we look at our problems so much. ⁓

And I've, I've, I've been working towards looking at problems and I, I, I'm sure I've mentioned this before and maybe cause it's, it's, it's something that I'm really tuning into, but looking at problems is not a bad thing. And so when I'm on the remanating on the computer and stuck, it's just like, I got to fix it. This is a bad thing. no, fix, fix, fix. But then it's not, we can't avoid problems. And and I think maybe that comes out of this.

Jen Porter (1:04:39)
Hmm.

Bola Gbadebo (1:04:53)
somewhat of a lack mentality of trying to avoid the problem. And that's, that doesn't work. It's okay to have them. And I'm training my mind to say, it's okay to have problems. You just need to create solutions. That's not a bad thing. That's not a bad place to be. ⁓ and I'm sure that's tied to all sorts of things like in my life growing up, but to look at a problem and not say that's wrong, but rather look at a problem and say, okay, something to figure out fun.

that activates my mental faculties. Great.

Jen Porter (1:05:25)
It's

that growth mindset. Do you know the difference between a fixed and a growth mindset? Have you heard that?

Bola Gbadebo (1:05:33)
I probably don't know

the exact, I definitely heard it, but I don't know the exact definition, but I am sure the growth can look at something and learn adaptability. Okay. This is what reality is. Okay.

Jen Porter (1:05:41)
Exactly. Yeah. Carol Dweck wrote about

this, the growth mindset. The fixed mindset is that we think we are limited in our brain power and our abilities. And so we think, I can't do that. So I won't do that. As opposed to a growth mindset that's, don't know that now. I've never done this before, but I can figure it out. It's figure outable.

Bola Gbadebo (1:06:07)
Yes.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:06:10)
And you have that. You definitely have that.

Bola Gbadebo (1:06:12)
Absolutely, it's just absolutely

there. Yeah, so I and.

Jen Porter (1:06:19)
It's not that these things are always available. They're always available to us, but we're not always operating in them. Right? And so the tools get us to access those things. Like it's helpful to have these tools because then we can say, okay, here's, ⁓ I'm noticing this is where I am right now. I'm feeling limited. I'm feeling stuck. I'm feeling fixed, you know, in the way that my mind is working right now.

Bola Gbadebo (1:06:25)
Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:06:46)
I actually have some tools available to me that I can use to get to the outcome that I really do want.

So some of those things are walking in nature, taking a nap, stepping away from your desk, even for a brief moment, right? It doesn't have to be half a day. So ⁓ what do you want to believe about yourself when you need to be in that place of accessing solutions as opposed to just focusing on the problem? What do you want to believe about yourself?

Bola Gbadebo (1:07:23)
that.

What do I want to believe about myself when it comes to solutions? Okay.

I would say I don't know about this answer, but it's true. want to believe that I can create the best solutions given the resources I have. I don't want just a solution. And I think that when I am highly stressed or I feel a mental pressure, I don't get that creative solution making mind. I can create a solution.

but I want the best solution. I want to believe that I'm able at presenting the best solution.

Jen Porter (1:08:14)
What if you said that to yourself? Literally, I'm capable of creating the best solution that I can given the resources I have.

Bola Gbadebo (1:08:26)
start saying them. Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:08:31)
It is true.

Bola Gbadebo (1:08:33)
It is true. It is true.

Jen Porter (1:08:34)
Yeah, it's just that you need

to believe that in that moment.

Just like, you know, the belief, have everything that I need. I actually have everything that I need for this.

It's a belief that we can grab hold of to help us move in the direction we really want to go.

Bola Gbadebo (1:08:57)
Yeah.

I will start saying that. I, yeah.

because it is true. That's the paradox, right? We know these.

Jen Porter (1:09:07)
It's proven. And that's another tool

is looking for the evidence like, I've done this before. I do know how to do this. Looking for our own evidence.

Bola Gbadebo (1:09:14)
Absolutely. Yeah.

And I do wonder about that within myself. And I know other people struggle with this. And then a lot of people don't. They'll see their track record and be like, great, I've done it. I'll do it again. I'll look at my track record and be like, great, can I do it again? And I don't know where that comes from.

Jen Porter (1:09:36)
Words are so important to you, right? So having these mantras, I mean, I write things around me when I need them. They serve me for a season. I don't need them anymore because I've integrated them, right? But these are some things that you can put around you, like literally write them. So, because when we're in a stressful situation, our brain is not going to remember it, it's not. So we have to have the symbol.

Bola Gbadebo (1:09:40)
Yeah, they are.

Yeah.

Jen Porter (1:10:04)
or the literally it written in front of us so that it like it's a tool that tells our brain what we need when we can't access it by memory. It's just it's we're in stress response. So putting these things around you to remember like even like I write down ⁓ think when I am in a stress response I literally can't remember what's good for me.

I need, so I have a list on my phone. I have these things, it's like, yeah, these things actually work for me when I am hurting or when I am stressed or in pain. ⁓ great, it's already there for me because I know myself over years, I need that. And in the same way, you can have these things around you that support what it is that you need in this season to be confident, to show up as the leader that you are.

Bola Gbadebo (1:11:02)
That is a very good thing to do and highlight. I mean, where I'm going with that in my mind is I write a lot, but I write to express what's there. It's very different. And there's a level of productivity here where you're reminding yourself of things that you've done and do so you don't fall into those same cycles. Because if you're just expressing what you feel,

I mean, you could feel the same things over and over again for years. And that that type of writing, although it can be very therapeutic, it does. It's not the goal that I'm trying to reach right now. ⁓

Jen Porter (1:11:40)
And don't lose that. That's your art form. That's beautiful.

So hold on to that. expressing how you feel in a certain moment may not help you get what you really need when it comes to your work. And this is just one thing. And see how this one thing supports you. The one phrase. So are you going to hold on to the phrase? Say it.

Bola Gbadebo (1:11:54)
Absolutely.

Yeah.

I ⁓ was about to ask ⁓ you. I can come up with the best possible solutions. Hold on.

I am capable of presenting the best possible solutions given my resources. I believe that was it.

Jen Porter (1:12:36)
Mm-hmm.

Bola Gbadebo (1:12:39)
I'm going to sing that all day. I need to practice for my musical anyway. I'm just going to sing that.

Jen Porter (1:12:43)
love it, I love it. So

what are you taking away from this, insights or takeaways?

Bola Gbadebo (1:12:53)
I think it's a little comical in my end because of listening to myself. It's so, it's one thing to think something and you just add all this weight and gravity to it. And then you talk it out and you're like, huh, maybe it's just not as thick as I'm trying to make it in my head. It's not all that thick. There's not much meat here. But it is, it is very evident to me where I'm at in my own confidence journey. It is,

very evident in the things I already know I can do to ground myself and come back and really just doing it. don't know what that's about, but just doing what I know I could be doing. doesn't have to be the greatest thing. Maybe I'll come up with something even better, but I need to start doing what I already know. And then I really do like the mantra. really will be saying that because it is repetition.

that helps our belief. ⁓ And just going back to faith, the Bible is very repetitive because we forget. so, it's just like, well, yeah, that's not a new lesson. We need to remind, remind, remind ⁓ first thing in the morning every day. That's the best time. And then throughout the day, of course.

Jen Porter (1:14:00)
it.

Talk about setting yourself up for a great day. It's doing everything. Like, so you're setting the expectation for your own day.

Bola Gbadebo (1:14:18)
Yeah, yeah. ⁓

Yeah. That's so yeah, just just being consistent with that. I'm I'm excited. I'm to have to tell you in a month what's changed.

Jen Porter (1:14:34)
I know, I'm like, I wanna hear. I do,

I would be delighted to hear how this supports you. Bullet, you are capable of creating the best solution given the resources you have at any point in time.

Bola Gbadebo (1:14:43)
you

Thank you. I received that. I am.

Jen Porter (1:14:54)
you are. Thank you for being here, Voila. Thank you for being brave, the brave lioness that you are. And I know this is gonna, this is gonna be a milestone in your leadership journey and your journey as a creative. So thank you for trusting me and coming on here on the lioness conversations and experimenting.

Bola Gbadebo (1:14:58)
Yay!

No.

again,

thank you for making the space because this is great. And I really believe this will help someone. And yeah, it also just goes to show we're all human. Like no matter how simple or complex our problems, we all go through them. And so it's fun to be in a light words, again, forcing myself to be vulnerable, but it's also kind of part of, it's not kind of, it's very much a part of my journey and leadership. Be vulnerable in the matter of

Jen Porter (1:15:38)
Yeah.

Yeah, it is.

Bola Gbadebo (1:15:46)
Yeah, do it scared, do it silly, do it messy, just do it and I will continue to do that. And so thank you for creating a space where I can do it.

Jen Porter (1:15:54)
You're welcome. You're welcome. That's courage. What you're doing,

the way in which you go about your life and your work is courageous. Thank you, Bola. Everybody should check out her documentary. It's called Confidence, and you can find it on her website. Tell me if I get this right, bolafilms.com? No, confidence. Say, tell me again.

Bola Gbadebo (1:16:17)
Okay,

my name and what I do BolaFilms.com Yeah, and then yeah, I'm working on another documentary about my nice bluffs I have little snippets on there that I'll continue to add to and then I'm gonna have a haiku section So if people wanted to work with me with my haiku or purchase them, you'll have the opportunity

Jen Porter (1:16:25)
BolaFilms.com. Yes, Bola Films.

Yeah, I mean, are you open to people if they want to bring the haiku buttons or even stickers into their business? If that resonates with them, are open to that?

Bola Gbadebo (1:16:51)
Absolutely.

Are you kidding me? I'm trying to take over the world with my haiku. I would love that because ⁓ these are haikus that they really do capture shared experiences and it's just nice to be able to share something with a stranger, somebody you don't even know and yet there's like one moment of...

Jen Porter (1:16:59)
⁓

Yes.

Amazing, amazing. I love that idea. So reach out to Bola. Thank you for being here. Until the next time, the lioness in me sees the lioness in you.