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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
David Howman (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all back to another episode of the Echo from the Buttes podcast. I am your host David Hellman joined by my three co-hosts Austin Bundy, Andrew Hazlett and Tom Harden. And we're coming to you this Monday morning and we're all fired up because we got to witness Arizona State not only pulling off the win but probably one of the biggest wins that this program has ever had being able to upset number seven Texas Tech giving them their first loss on the year.
Tom Hardon (00:10)
We
in
David Howman (00:29)
catapulting themselves back into the Big 12 race and getting to storm the field after. was just all around a great day, especially for me because I'm the only one out of the four of us who had any shred of faith in this team going into this week. So Austin, Andrew, Tom, I'm really excited for this show because you guys have some questions to answer and we're gonna get to the bottom of it while we break down everything else that happened this week.
Austin, guess I'll let you go first. You're first on the stand to defend your crimes, but overall thoughts and reactions to this weekend.
Austen Bundy (01:09)
⁓ I think I'm the only one on this panel that has picked ASU to lose back-to-back weeks and I'm one-on-one with that. But if it's gonna take reverse psychology to get this team to win big games, I'll keep picking against them. I'll take one for the team every week here. ⁓ But I think my biggest problem going into the week was the defense. And of course, that was the strongest point for the Sun Devils the entire evening. ⁓ Just seeing how...
confident and how just thorough they were in defending Texas Tech, one of the highest powered offenses in the country this year, holding them to seven points for three quarters was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen out of this program. ⁓ The fact that this team figured out a way to win in one of the toughest situations you could possibly be in, which is leading for all of
few all of a few minutes and then lose that lead and still be able to hit the game-winning touchdown drive something that usually ASU is on the other end of when they're ⁓ making large comebacks or when it looks like they're gonna try and pull off some miracle win so it feels good to finally be on the other end ⁓ of that miracle ⁓
And I know what we were talking about the field rush a few weeks ago. ⁓ If there was a game you're going to field rush, this is the one to do it, beating a top 10 team. I mean, this is one of the highest ranked teams ASU has beaten in quite a while. I think it was the Jane Daniels and Justin Herbert game.
David Howman (02:41)
I was thinking of you the whole time that they were storming the field. I was like, Austin better not
Tom Hardon (02:45)
Thank
you. ⁓
David Howman (02:45)
have a single negative thing to say about this.
Austen Bundy (02:49)
No, this is the game you storm the field against. If you're the number next to your name is higher than a 20, I think you can rush the field, or lower than a 20. ⁓
No, this was a very impressive thing to see out of the program. Definitely a marquee legacy moment for ⁓ Kenny Dillingham and something that the program can look back on for a while now, especially doing it in those 1975 throwbacks with the 75 team getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. Like that was a great full circle moment right there to see them step up in front of that, those alumni. I think, again, a lot of people are probably gonna be thinking,
What is this deja vu all over again? mean last year you had the Cincinnati loss where you didn't have Sam Levitt this year you have the Utah loss where you don't have Sam Levitt and then you come out the gate and you win a really big game. Hopefully this is a repeat of last year where they they put the they pedaled to the metal with the gas here and just go on a tear back to the Big 12 championship game.
Tom Hardon (03:43)
Thank
David Howman (03:55)
Yeah, mean, this has the potential to be that like momentum building type of game. ⁓ Andrew, do you think that that's how this is gonna be? Is this really that level of magnitude or is the fact that Texas Tech didn't have Barron Morton under center for them and they went with their backup quarterback, does that take any shine off of this?
Andrew Hayslett (04:21)
It takes a little bit of shine because it's still bad. Excuse me, a backup. But regardless, it's still momentum building. You gotta take care of business against Houston next week, who is only a one-loss team this season. You can't overlook them. And going to Iowa State, that could bring in a lot of crazy weather, possibly. And then I think those two games...
You're kind of home free for the rest of the season because I don't the other handful of teams that they're playing West Virginia at home. I'm not scared by them. Colorado on the road. If the weather gets crazy, they could get that game could get a little. If he for me, but I don't think it will. And then Arizona at home did another push over type team. The I think it's.
Austen Bundy (05:19)
Somebody clip
him. Clip him now.
David Howman (05:22)
I'm
Andrew Hayslett (05:23)
Bye.
David Howman (05:23)
not gonna I'm not gonna object to you know Saying anything negative about that team ⁓ But Austin Austin had a for those that aren't watching on youtubers instead of listening Austin had a physical reaction to that
Austen Bundy (05:41)
I just don't want to come back and have to point to that comment if we somehow blow that.
Andrew Hayslett (05:41)
yet.
I've got this weighing on me if Arizona State loses. It's all gonna come back to me. But regardless, the three teams at the end of the year that I'm not expecting the Sun Devils to really have any trouble with beating at the end of the day. first two teams, sitting here right now, I think the Sun Devils' expectations is 5-0 for the rest of the year. I think that all those games are easily winnable.
Austen Bundy (05:49)
Yeah
David Howman (05:50)
Yeah.
Andrew Hayslett (06:15)
Compared to like what we felt last weekend against going into Texas tech war Three out of the four panelists here said this is this is gonna be tough game. I don't think we can ⁓ win and this on Devils one so expectation should be be five and and then that
all but guarantees that the ASU has shot a chance in the Big 12 championship to go back to back. BYU would have to beat Cincinnati or BYU would have to lose to someone other than Cincinnati as well for the rest of the year. So there's a good chance one of those two things are going to happen. And with that said, I...
I like the Sun Devil's chances of going back to the Big 12 championship. And if you have a chance in that game, this guy's the limit because all of a sudden we're talking about if you won this game, you go back to the CFP.
when the first game you're you've got a chance second game and so on and so forth all of sudden words we could be sitting here in the national championship game saying okay all we have to do is beat Indiana or whoever or Ohio State or whatever
Austen Bundy (07:36)
Could you imagine Arizona
State, Indiana, and a national championship game?
Andrew Hayslett (07:41)
I would be, if you would have said that two years ago as a possibility, most people would have probably looked at you like you're from outer space or something. But that's a possibility that could happen. So at the...
David Howman (07:57)
in a lot of ways, still
feels like maybe it still feels unrealistic because it's two programs that haven't had that, we're just not used to it. But Andrew, just to be clear, so you started off by saying Arizona is a complete pushover, we're gonna beat him, no chance for an upset. And then you finished off with, hey, ASU is going to the natty, we're taking Indiana down there. ⁓ I love it for one, truly.
Austen Bundy (08:20)
you
Andrew Hayslett (08:22)
I didn't I'd say
Tom Hardon (08:22)
Thank
David Howman (08:24)
I love it. There's
no possible way it comes back to bite you.
Andrew Hayslett (08:28)
I did not say they will, I said they could go 5-0 and then anything can happen after that.
David Howman (08:37)
Yeah, no, genuinely I do love, I love the optimism. I love manifesting it. Tom, go ahead and top that. What do you got for us?
Tom Hardon (08:49)
the the bar really high. I don't know how I can go above and beyond that, but I will counter Andrew's point of Will Hammond taking a little bit of the shine off of the win. To me, Hammond was the greater threat at quarterback than Baron Morton. I thought that
secondary would have been able to contain Morton, especially if he's not 100%. I was really worried about Hammond's running ability given what we saw at Utah last weekend. But the defense stepped up in a big way and held Texas Tech to a net 109 rushing yards. And this is multiple weeks throughout this season where we have seen very high powered offenses.
come up against ASU and the defense absolutely puts them into a chokehold and does not let them play their game. Texas Tech was coming in with, I believe, 558 yards per game of total offense. I think that was tops in the nation entering the game and only 276 yards of total offense on the final stat sheet. That to me says that, you know,
this team in preparation for this matchup, they heavily reviewed the game film from Utah and identified those weaknesses that were glaringly apparent and corrected them. mean, there was really no way around it. It was a night and day difference. I had a lot of trouble finding anything that was really wrong with this win outside of a few nitpicky things.
David Howman (10:37)
Yeah, well, I love hearing you say that because you had plenty of ease finding things wrong with them ahead of this matchup. And ⁓ I've alluded to it already. We've all kind of alluded to it. ⁓ On Devils in Detail, we do a weekly article where we all put forth our predictions for the game. And it was fascinating to me when I put it together this week, we all had the same record as a
predictor we were all sitting tied at four and two and As I was taking the predictions from each and every one of you you all picked the same type of outcome You're all doubted Arizona State all picked them to lose except for one Yours truly ⁓ only one to have any faith in them And just for fun. I just wanted to revisit some of the things that you guys said
Tom Hardon (11:31)
⁓ he's
not gonna hold this over us at all.
Austen Bundy (11:36)
Hey David.
David Howman (11:37)
Yeah, it's just for this week.
Just for this week.
Austen Bundy (11:40)
David, every once in a while a blind squirrel will trip over a nut.
David Howman (11:46)
I think it's more than that. Austin, you in particular, you invoked the name of Cam Scataboo. You said, referring to Texas Tech, this appears to be a Cam Scataboo level challenge and our tackling has not been at its best this season. Hoping for a miracle, but for these purposes we'll stick to realism. That's harsh. That's harsh.
Austen Bundy (11:49)
You
In my defense, I was hoping and my hopes came true.
David Howman (12:15)
Yeah, yeah.
And Andrew, you specifically said Texas Tech will have the ball last. True. We'll kick a last second field goal. Not entirely true. You weren't that harsh. I'm going to give you a pass. ⁓ You predicted a three point loss. It was a close game. You get that one. Tom started off. Tom, you started off with.
Andrew Hayslett (12:33)
Yes.
I wasn't entirely wrong, least.
David Howman (12:45)
I've tried to find any ray of sunshine that I can for this matchup. There really isn't much to be seen.
Tom Hardon (12:52)
Somebody's gotta be a rain cloud every once in a while. Austin can't have all the fun.
David Howman (12:55)
The week!
Austen Bundy (12:59)
The sunburst on the helmet came through for us.
David Howman (13:02)
Yeah, no, the uniforms I think played a huge part in it. ⁓ It's a beautiful logo for those who are watching on YouTube. You see I've got, ⁓ I can't mirror my own video, but ⁓ the ASU pendant on my wall has that Sunburst logo. I think it's the best logo. I know everybody debates Pitchfork versus Sparky. That's fair. Sunburst clears them both. ⁓
I also cleared everybody in our predictions. I'm now firmly in first. Of course, I started out my prediction. said, I can't believe I'm going to be the optimist here, but I'll roll with it. And I even right down to the end, right down to the end, it won't be easy, but I think we see a performance similar to last year's win over BYU. And yes, Austin, a field storming is absolutely warranted with a win here. Not only did I get the win, I got the field storming, everything right down to it.
⁓ Yeah, was was it was a beautiful time for me personally obviously for all Sun Devils fans. It was a great win ⁓ And I will hold that over you guys for the rest of the week And I think I think I've earned that right at this point, but ⁓ Obviously very very impressed with the defense. I do want to talk about the defense especially ⁓ Not just because Austin said that they had zero chance in this game ⁓ but I think like
like Brian Ward, the defensive coordinator, he's gotten some hate throughout this season as things have gone along. There's been some games where things haven't really worked out as well defensively. The Mississippi State game was especially tough with how that one ended, but I think the way that this defense has played recently, Utah game notwithstanding, and the way that they came to play specifically against Texas Tech with all the firepower that they have.
I was really impressed. I'm very happy for Brian Ward. I think he deserves a lot of respect. That defense as a whole deserves a lot of respect. They showed up to play. ⁓ I think ASU should feel very, very fortunate for their defensive coordinator. They have this guy running the defense, ⁓ and I'm ready for people to start giving him his due.
Austen Bundy (15:19)
Yeah, and think you got a lot of people who are going to point to the last few drives where Texas Tech came back. They scored 15 points in one minute, 45 seconds of game time. ⁓
I understand if you were you want to point to that and say see there are still some cracks here They got a they got to work on but a defense that was working as hard as ASU's was the entire game When the offense gets sent off the field that quickly that defense is gonna be fatigued. It's gonna be it's gonna be tired and It was just one of those The offense did not give the defense a chance to catch its breath and Texas Tech took advantage of it So that's where I mean the game was on Sam Levitt shoulders at
that
point and tighten Jordan Tyson's shoulders and they came through and backed up the defense and got the go-ahead touchdown there in the last
minute minute and a half of the game. ⁓ So I give you got to give credit where it's due that defense held the arguably the best offense in the country to seven points for more than three quarters. So like you said Ward deserves his flowers for this game and hopefully they can all look at the game film for this game and have it playing on repeat in the locker room and say this is what you do every week. This is what you do every week to every offense you meet and you will not lose a game.
Tom Hardon (16:34)
Let's also not forget that that second score in the fourth quarter was aided by a huge punt return that set Texas Tech up with a first down at the ASU 12 yard line. as soon as that return, as soon as they got that return and.
Got the go-ahead score, even though we got the go-ahead score right after as Texatec marched down the field on their final drive, I couldn't help but think, here we go again. Are the wheels going to fall off now? After 55 minutes of great football, is this going to be the undoing?
Andrew Hayslett (17:17)
Yeah, that's why I was going to mention too is that the special teams a few times left ⁓ a lot to be desired. then in the first quarter on the first one of the first drives in the first half where Dillingham decided to go for it on fourth down, I think in there and his own territory could have been just on the opposite side of the 50s. Well, somewhere in there, he went for it failed and
Texas Tech on the short field was able to march down the field and score their first touchdown of the game. So if you take that out of consideration and you punt there instead, ⁓ granted the whole game changes because of that one decision, but possibly you only allow seven fewer points instead.
David Howman (18:12)
Yeah, no, I mean, you guys made great points. And with that fourth down call too, it was a shot play and there should have been a flag as well. Jordan Tyson was being held up at the top of the route. ⁓ I don't know if I necessarily, personally, I agree with the decision to go for it. I don't like the specific play call with a shot play on fourth down when you only need, I think it was like three or four, ⁓ but there also should have been a 15 yard penalty there.
Kenny Dillingham was understandably upset with the no call there. But again, the defense, I mean, two of the touchdowns they gave up, they're defending short fields. Special teams was a big part of that late in the game. They also had a blocked punt. They had a punt that got blocked. ⁓ Special teams was not very special in this one. feel like we've talked about that a couple of times throughout this season, a lot throughout last season. was a constant issue.
all of last season. They have a good kicker now. They solved that part. Jesus Gomez has been really, really great. And he was relied on, especially in the first half, because they couldn't get into the end zone. Again, red zone offense is the thing we've talked about as well. And it still wasn't perfect in this one. But special teams, I was watching the game and I was just like, how is it still so bad?
Andrew Hayslett (19:39)
you.
David Howman (19:39)
There's just so many things that don't
go right on special teams. think Kenny Dillingham even said after like it was I forget the exact quote he said, but you could tell he was not happy. He was not satisfied with that performance. ⁓ And Kenny said at the Big 12 media day that earlier this year, like he's getting more involved in coaching the special teams too, which is a new thing for him. ⁓ But he's working alongside Charlie Ragle, who's the special teams coordinator and is his longtime mentor.
They also brought in a new special teams coach, like an assistant, Jack Nudo. ⁓ Like they've made additions to the special teams and it's still not going well for them. I don't know what needs to happen, what they can do from here. But when you're talking about a team like Texas Tech, you can't have those errors that almost cost them the game. Going up against Houston next week too. I mean, you look at Houston, they haven't...
Andrew Hayslett (20:30)
Thank ⁓
David Howman (20:35)
On paper, they don't look like a super dangerous team. Like they don't have an elite offense. don't have their defense has been good, but not great. But they just find ways to win. mean, Oregon State took them to overtime, but they managed to beat them. I think they, I don't remember if they actually went to overtime, if it was in regulation against Arizona, but that was a tight game. They managed to win. That's not a team that you can afford to have these special teams misused because they will take advantage of them.
Tom Hardon (21:00)
Thank
David Howman (21:01)
So that's, to me, that's the biggest thing that stuck out in this game was special teams.
Andrew Hayslett (21:05)
Yeah, I would agree. ⁓ I think in terms of the punting, know Canyon Floyd, this was his first game back since Texas State where he was ⁓ only worked part of that game. Matt McKenzie, his replacement punter who's been on the rosters since the beginning of the year. He hasn't been what I thought Floyd was.
And I think they might have brought Floyd back a little earlier than they would have liked. I don't know what the exact injury is. ⁓
with him, but that, I think that's part of it. ⁓ Also with, ⁓ Raleigh Brown and Jalen Moss were supposed to be the two returners at the beginning of the year. Moss obviously has been through injury, now Raleigh Brown being the top running back, you don't want to have him go out on special teams. So that's kind of left a couple other guys for those roles, Zach Sample, ⁓ Jaren Hamilton, who was great on offense.
of this past game. Just kinda that hasn't really meant, hasn't really done anything on special teams, those two guys. not to their, not to like say that they're bad even, but they were just put in a role that they weren't probably expecting to get at the beginning of the year.
And going back to Jack Nudo, he's a guy who's been around this football team for a long time. He was the guy that drew up the Kyson Brown run play against Northern Arizona that worked.
With the way Special Teams has gone this year, I'd like to see him get the coordinator role at the end of the next season. think he's a guy that's, his father is an Arena Football League Hall of Famer, a G-Nudo. So he's a guy that might be able to do something good. And I would definitely want to keep Charlie Regal around as a, somewhere on as an assistant because he's a guy that's...
Helped dealing camel a lot along the way. He's is when I've interviewed him is super nice guy and Just just for my sake. He's a good interview. I love talking to him
Tom Hardon (23:32)
You bring up Jaron Hamilton and I want to give him a special shout out because we know that the offense primarily flows through Jordan Tyson, but Arizona State had 200 yard receivers in a game for the first time since the 2022 season against Colorado. And I I loved seeing Sam spread the ball around as much as he did and utilize more than just his go to receiver. We did get to see Shemar Mateer get.
moderately involved in the passing game, but I specifically want to want to shout out Jaren Hamilton for really his breakout game of the season.
David Howman (24:11)
Tom, who were the two that went for 100 yards in that game in 2022?
Tom Hardon (24:17)
you're pointing.
David Howman (24:18)
I don't think any
of us could probably guess this.
Austen Bundy (24:23)
It's got to be,
what is it? It's got to be what? Brandon Ayuk?
Tom Hardon (24:26)
Now, I was already in the NFL by then.
David Howman (24:28)
He was already in the
NFL.
Andrew Hayslett (24:29)
Ricky Pierce saw on that team?
David Howman (24:32)
I
think Pearsall was there. Elijah Badger, maybe?
Austen Bundy (24:32)
No, think he had left because he thought Herm was
gone at that point.
Tom Hardon (24:38)
So the.
David Howman (24:38)
think was Adger
and Pearsall.
Tom Hardon (24:41)
The receivers were Elijah Badger and Jalen Conyers. Badger with eight catches for 137 yards, Conyers six for 108 and three touchdowns.
David Howman (24:47)
Well...
I think that was when, by that point, Sean Iguano was calling the plays. Yeah, that was like shortly after he took over and yeah, he was basically like every play. It was either a pass to Badger or a pass to Conyers.
Andrew Hayslett (24:55)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (25:00)
Yes, he was.
And that was was Borgay's 435 yard passing performance too.
David Howman (25:16)
There you go.
So yeah, mean, that's good for ASU, but also, know, Borgay outplayed Sam Leavitt.
Andrew Hayslett (25:25)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (25:25)
Yeah.
David Howman (25:30)
for whatever that's worth.
Tom Hardon (25:32)
Kind of nice with it being full circle with Borgay currently being on the staff too.
David Howman (25:40)
Yeah, that's a good pull though. I have blocked out pretty much everything from the 2022 season. the fact that ASU did something for the first time since then, and it was a good thing, I didn't expect that when we hit record on this, but thank you. Thank you for that.
Tom Hardon (25:57)
I also,
I do also want to call out the red zone efficiency. Yes, it didn't result in touchdowns every single time, but five red zone trips, five times recording points, two touchdowns and three field goals. Yes, you do want to see touchdowns every single time, but as long as you're coming away with points on every red zone possession, I'm happy with that.
David Howman (26:21)
the flip side if it was five touchdowns you don't even have to worry about you're giving up that that touchdown at the end you don't have to worry about we we gave up a big punt return I would say that's why you need to score touchdowns in the red zone getting points is obviously nice you know I've seen my fair share I've seen my fair share of red zone trips that don't result in any points and that's frustrating but
Tom Hardon (26:41)
Baby steps, David, baby steps.
David Howman (26:49)
Yeah, if you get inside the 20, you should be scoring, especially when you have a guy like Jordan Tyson, especially when we've seen what Jamal Mateyar can do. I mean, like, Sam Leavitt, obviously, you could tell in this game he wasn't at 100%, but I thought from a mobility standpoint, like, he still looked pretty good. Some of his best throws were him moving around in the pocket and then just, you know, he does this.
these like Josh Allen, Pat Mahomes things where he's like throwing across his body and twisting himself into a pretzel and he was still able to do that. ⁓ So, I mean, I think they have enough talent and Sam was playing at a high enough level, you shouldn't have to settle for field goals inside the red zone unless there's some sort of penalty. obviously if you get a holding penalty, suddenly it's first and 20, like that can kill almost any drive. That takes you out of the red zone anyway, so.
⁓ yeah, Tom, I appreciate the positivity, I'm not going with you on that one.
Tom Hardon (27:49)
Well, here's another twist of positivity. Yesterday was Sam's first 300 yard passing game of the season. So as not 100 % as he looked, he was highly efficient in his gameplay.
Austen Bundy (28:05)
I will say the one thing I have noticed when it comes to ASU in the red zone, I feel like the playbook is designed for a longer field. When they get within the 20 yards, I feel like a lot of the plays they designed that aren't running plays are designed for a 30 plus yard field. And Sam feels constrained when he's got to run those plays. And sometimes he overthrows guys in the back of the end zone from the pressure. And then other times he's trying, it just looks like he's uncomfortable having to fit in a ball.
that's got to go less than 20 yards. And it's mostly on the plays where he's got to either scramble out of the pocket and he's going for a corner or he's going for anywhere that's not between the two goal posts. I don't know if the play calling has got to adjust or they've got to figure out how to redesign some of these plays or if it's just Sam mentally being a guy who wants to whip it down the field more often than not instead of going across the middle on a short
20-yard, 15-yard playing surface.
I don't it's just it's one of those things that kind of confounded me where he looks great when he's outside the red zone. You see him. It looks he's natural. again, he has those Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes type attributes and being able to deliver the ball on these weird angles and these broken plays. But as soon as you get him anywhere close to the to the end zone, it's either he's got to run it in himself or he just looks uncomfortable when he's trying to fit the ball anywhere on a short distance. I don't know if I don't know what's going on there.
I feel like there's a little bit of an evaluation that's got to go on with how they treat the red zone and the space that Sam Levitt operates in when he gets within the 20.
Tom Hardon (29:49)
I agree with you that the playbook doesn't exactly fit the area of the field that they're in, that's also something that Sam has addressed in post-game comments most recently against TCU, where he needs to do a better job at finding his guys on the back line in the red zone and not continually overthrowing receivers and working within the constraints of that area of the field. ⁓
David Howman (30:14)
Yeah, but I think also like,
mean, we've talked about like the comparisons with Mahomes and Allen in terms of some of the crazy throws he makes and, you know, just to continue with those really unrealistic comparisons for Sam Levitt. ⁓ I mean, when you watch the build and you watch the Chiefs, when they're in the red zone, you know, yes, those guys both love taking those deep shots. They have those crazy plays outside of structure. But when they get in the red zone, like,
They're moving side to side, they're using their mobility. So many times Josh Allen either has like designed runs or designed moving the pocket out to one side or the other with the chiefs. use a lot of those jet touch passes. They use a lot of those ⁓ like the shovel passes and everything. Getting the defense moving side to side, creating more space because it's restricted going vertically.
And I just don't see that with this offense schematically. Yeah, some of it is on Sam Levin and he's taking accountability and that's nice. But also so much of this offense, like you guys have been saying, it's built for vertical, but you can also run routes horizontal. Like there's not a whole lot of crossing routes. There's not a whole lot of, like I personally, I love a good mesh concept in the red zone where you've just got guys going across. You get man coverage that works a hundred percent of the time.
Even in zone, a lot of times you can find something there. I don't see a whole lot of that. And some of the run game issues that they've had have only exacerbated that because like we said a couple of weeks ago, like last year, they get in the red zone, they would line up and pistol, they give it to Scataboo. Life was easy in the red zone. ⁓ It's a little bit different. RelicBrand had a really great game. He does a lot of things really well. He's not Cam Scataboo. ⁓
So I don't know what the solution is there. Andrew, you've been in practice. Do you know how often they work on red zone? Because I know some teams devote more time to red zone offense than other teams. And sometimes they do it more situational. How much time are they spending working on their red zone offense?
Andrew Hayslett (32:25)
It's hard to say because they always start from the exact same spot. Some days they move down the field, some days they just stay there. Some days they just go up the field five yards guaranteed every play. So like it's hard to say are they trying to do red zone offense from those spots. I don't know. I can't decipher that that well, but.
At of the day I would like to see more drives in when they do 11 on 11s, not good on goods, where they start at the 20 yard line and say, okay defense hold the offense to a field goal and they say offense score touchdown. That's something I'd like to see. I don't know if they're going to do that. That's just something I'd like to see.
For me, I'd like to see more running in the red zone. feel like they just try to pass the ball way too much down there, especially when they get inside the 10 specifically. I don't know if really Brown's that guy. I don't know if Kanye Udo even is the guy. He's ever since Mississippi State just disappeared, it's felt like. So.
If he's not the guy I'd like to see a little bit more of Demarius Mann, Mann Robinson down there. He looked good in the few place he got in the Texas Tech game and maybe he's the guy that can crack some of this red zone offense woes.
If he gets a few touchdowns, defenses will bring more guys into the box, that opens up the pass, allows that to score some touchdowns that way as well.
Austen Bundy (34:17)
You know, one play I feel like ASU could utilize, and I don't know if the size of the offensive line is there for this, but something that I've always wanted them to try out in the red zone more often is the jet sweep. Because you don't need to use a running back in order for the jet sweep to be effective, because you have plenty of these guys, like you could use a Jordan Tyson because he's quick on a jet sweep. You could even use Shimon Mateo for his size, for when he cuts into the left on a right moving jet sweep, he's gonna be able to take out a couple of those linebackers just from his size alone.
So I'd like to see them get creative on some unorthodox plays that you typically wouldn't see in the red zone. A jet sweep, I feel like, would do something like that because you're going to line up in a formation that's going to keep the defense spread out. And when you all move to the one side and whoever is going to be getting the ball on the handoff or a toss,
You pick that person specifically for the situation you're in. If you're within 10 yards, you pick somebody heavier like the running back or a Mateo. If you need to get the edge when you're outside of the 10 yard line, you give someone like a Tyson because he's going to get the edge and he's going to beat that first line at defense and potentially take on the safety if he's got to crash in. I'd like to see them get more creative with the type of plays you're going to pick in the red zone instead of having to either hand it off and eventually get stuffed or it's going to be ⁓ Sam deciding whether to drop
Andrew Hayslett (35:25)
Thank
Austen Bundy (35:37)
or run it himself.
David Howman (35:39)
Yeah, I think overall creativity, they definitely don't lack for creativity, but I think they do lack for it in the red zone. feel like there's, it doesn't feel like there's a red zone section on Marcus Arroyo's playbook. It feels like it's just like, here's our plays, we run it, and then when we get in the red zone, we just run those plays again. ⁓ that's not, know, far be it from me sitting here on my couch at home telling Marcus Arroyo, getting paid.
Tom Hardon (35:40)
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank
David Howman (36:09)
you know, lot more money than I do to do this, but I feel like there should be a little bit more creativity. I'd like to see a little bit more there, especially because this is just like special teams. This has been a recurring topic all season and. There's still not really a solution, ⁓ but again, that being said, they got in the red zone there on that very last drive and that was the one that mattered the most. And it's funny that the play where relic actually scored the touchdown.
Tom Hardon (36:15)
Thank you.
Thank you.
David Howman (36:37)
they ran that play in the first quarter. And I think they had a full starter. They had some other sort of penalty where like they ran the play and there was a little bit of a motion out and really got that ball out there on the end. And he would have like, he was so mad because you could see he was going to go in for an easy touchdown and the penalty backed him up. And so they ran the exact same play again, cause they had seen it and knew like it would work. So I like that kind of stuff. I like that.
Tom Hardon (36:38)
Thank
David Howman (37:05)
Arroyo saw that early in the game was like, hey, it didn't work out here because of the penalty, but we know we got him on that. We can put that in our back pocket, save it for if we really need it. Do more of that. Margot Arroyo, if you're listening, I know you are. Hello, hi, love you. Big fan, please do that more. ⁓ Would love you even more. As someone who we've established has actual faith in this team, unlike these other three jabronis that I've got, ⁓ with love.
Tom Hardon (37:15)
Thank
Andrew Hayslett (37:31)
Thanks.
Tom Hardon (37:34)
Yeah, thank you.
David Howman (37:35)
⁓ and, and yeah, you guys, you know,
you know how I feel about y'all. But I mean, all that to say, mean, obviously we're, I feel like we've spent the last 15 minutes talking about what went wrong in this game. and, and I mean, was a, it was a big win. was great. It was huge for Sun Devil football. think it saved the season because you know, if
Tom Hardon (37:54)
Thank you.
David Howman (38:02)
If this turned out the other way and they had lost, know, team morale aside, it would be devastating for their Big 12 chances. now, you know, Texas Tech has a loss. That's huge. Utah lost to BYU. That's big because they had the tiebreaker over ASU. Obviously, BYU is undefeated in general and in the Big 12. Cincinnati is undefeated in the Big 12. And then you've got Houston, who they play.
Tom Hardon (38:07)
Thank
David Howman (38:31)
Is also a one-loss team right now in conference record ⁓ It the path back to the big 12 title game feels a lot more accessible and we kind of talked about that a little bit earlier, but ⁓ You know that the schedule the rest of the way I think for ASU isn't Nearly as bad as it is for a team like BYU as it is for a team like Cincinnati ⁓ Who play each other of course on top of some other?
really tough team. So ⁓ I'm cautiously optimistic that that game up in Ames does scare me. has a lot of Corvallis in November feel to it. But
Tom Hardon (39:12)
Don't
talk about that town.
Austen Bundy (39:14)
You
David Howman (39:16)
It's just...
Austen Bundy (39:17)
I
hear that chainsaw in my sleep sometimes.
Tom Hardon (39:21)
Too many seasons ended going up there.
David Howman (39:21)
Yeah, it's...
Mm-hmm. It brings a lot of hard memories ⁓ and it, you know, I should feel a lot better that they're so terrible as a program right now because of the torture that they gave us. ⁓ But it's still, yeah, going to Ames when ASU does has me worried. But again, this was the hardest game of the season. We all kind of, think we probably all felt that way at the start of the season.
Certainly once some games started getting played and we saw what Texas Tech can be, ⁓ it definitely much felt that way. do ⁓ you guys think, is Texas Tech still a front runner in the Big 12 in anybody's mind?
Austen Bundy (40:10)
I wouldn't put it past them. mean, think BYU is now the team to beat in the Big 12. I would maybe give them the edge. ⁓ But that being said, if Morton comes back next week for Texas Tech, they don't have the inside track on A- I mean, right now ASU has the inside track because if you assume that they all went out, ASU's got that inside track right now to Dallas. Texas Tech is still...
one of the most formidable teams in college football right now that's why the a p writers kept them as high as they have in in the next is week nine rankings i still think
there is a greater chance than not that Texas Tech wins the rest of their games and two of the remaining three, ASU, Cincinnati, BYU lose at least once more down the stretch. I think it's more likely than not that scenario plays out for Texas Tech, which is why I think they're still the team to beat and still the team that ends up in Dallas. It could still very well end up that ASU and Texas Tech get a rematch in Dallas if all things go right, but because BYU is
still undefeated in conference play, Cincinnati, did you say David they're undefeated in conference play? Because those two teams are still undefeated but they've got to play each other right now. This is still a four to five team race in the big 12. I mean, we can't put Houston out of our minds either because if they beat ASU, ASU's out of it. Now Houston's suddenly in the middle of this race. ⁓
But yeah, I'd still, I would not discount Texas Tech. They still very much have a, in my opinion, greater than 50 % chance to get to Dallas.
David Howman (41:57)
Yeah, well, and I mean, I'm looking at the Texas Tech schedule. Sorry, Tom, but just just to give context to it, who they still play. So next week they play Oklahoma State. Even if Barry Morton isn't back for that, I think that's probably a win for them. That's also at home for them. Then they go on the road to play Kansas State, who has not really I mean, they've gotten better than they were earlier in the year, but they're not really in the race right now. And then they host BYU, so they do play BYU, but it's
Tom Hardon (41:57)
I agree with Austin.
David Howman (42:27)
It's in Lubbock and then they play UCF and then they close out the season on the road against West Virginia. Outside of the BYU game, that looks pretty easy. And even with that BYU game, mean, BYU is undefeated, but that's in Lubbock. That's a tough place to play. ⁓
Austen Bundy (42:46)
I would still give the edge to Texas Tech in that game.
David Howman (42:48)
I agree. still feel like even with this loss, ⁓ you know, they I feel like they have the inside track. I think they're probably still the best team, especially because yes, they lost but it was with a backup quarterback. He was making his first start. ⁓ Also, Austin, like you mentioned, if ASU does lose to Houston next week, well, Houston's only got one loss and now it's to Texas Tech. So they've got, you know, then the one team that has a tiebreaker over Texas Tech is out of the picture.
And then, you know, one of the other teams that's competing, they have a tiebreaker over. I feel like the Red Raiders are still kind of the team to beat in the Big 12 despite what the records say. But Tom, you were saying something before I rudely interrupted you. So go ahead.
Tom Hardon (43:33)
You said exactly what I was going to say. I was taking look at Texas Tech's upcoming schedule and their schedule outside of the BYU game, they should go 4-1 at worst based on that remaining schedule. I see no reason why they finished any worse than 4-1 down the stretch and they should be one of the two teams in Dallas for the Big 12 Championship game.
I'm also frankly over here trying to figure out if we're able to complete the big 12 circle of suck if we start to get some of these losses coming in.
David Howman (44:16)
could very well happen. ⁓ Looking at the other schedules.
Andrew Hayslett (44:18)
That would mean Oklahoma...
That would mean Oklahoma State would have to win a game, so...
Tom Hardon (44:24)
And so would West
Virginia.
David Howman (44:26)
Yeah, it could happen.
Austen Bundy (44:31)
We've seen crazier stuff happen.
David Howman (44:31)
But
looking at the schedules for BYU in Cincinnati, BYU's kind of got a tough road because now they go on the road to play Iowa State. Again, Ames, end of October. ⁓ Then they have to play Texas Tech like we said in Lubbock. Then they host TCU, who's still doing pretty good. They're not really in the Big 12 race at this point. They've lost too many, but still a tough team to beat. And then they go on the road to Cincinnati.
Andrew Hayslett (44:53)
Thank
David Howman (45:00)
So not only do they play Cincinnati who's still undefeated in conference play, but it's on the road You know, I mean, I don't know what the weather difference is between Provo and Cincinnati that time of year But it's also just that's a big travel then they host UCF ⁓ For Cincinnati, they've got Baylor at home this week. Then they go to Utah We all know how hard it is to win in Rice Eccles Stadium, then they host Arizona. They play BYU when they finish the year
down in Fort Worth against TCU. So for both of those teams that are still undefeated in conference play, I see at least a couple of games for each that could very well be a loss or two here or there. Texas Tech, it's a lot harder to see it there.
Austen Bundy (45:49)
I think if we're looking at best case scenario for ASU only, best case scenario right now is you're getting a rematch with Texas Tech in Dallas.
just based on the way that BYU and Cincinnati schedules have them having to eliminate one or the other. And on top of that, you have at least two other schools that are going to play spoiler in that schedule. I think for all three of those teams, except outside of Texas Tech, believe, circle the TCU games. Those I think are going to be the deciders when it comes to who is going to be playing in Dallas in December. If TCU wins both of those games, we already
know who's going to be playing.
Andrew Hayslett (46:35)
Yeah, last year that team was Kansas. Kansas spoiled BYU. And I think they wound up beating Iowa State too. If memory serves me right. Yes, Iowa State did go on to play in the Big 12 Championship, but had Iowa State won that, maybe Colorado. That's what I'm forgetting too. So yeah, those are, there's always a team that comes up and grabs.
Austen Bundy (46:52)
They beat Colorado.
Andrew Hayslett (47:04)
a good teams by surprise. I do like that TCU team a lot. I've been high on them since the summer. So I like that thought, Austin. ⁓
David Howman (47:20)
Yeah, well, I mean, West Virginia has not really had a great go of it, but also I think like traveling to Morgantown later in the year, I mean, that's a tough place to play. That's a long travel schedule for most of these teams too. And know, Rich Rod being their head coach, he's always doing something funky out there. ⁓ Also just out of curiosity, I pulled up Houston's schedule because...
I mean, they are very much in the thick of this race, too. Nobody's really looking at them as a front runner. ⁓ But I mean, obviously, they play in Tempe this next week. Statistically, the odds aren't great. ASU doesn't lose in Mountain America Stadium. They just don't. I don't think it's actually humanly possible. ⁓ But then after that, they host West Virginia. That's a good fit for them. Then they go on the road to UCF. That's a ⁓ good matchup for them.
Tom Hardon (47:47)
Thank
Austen Bundy (48:07)
Not gonna wait, ⁓
David Howman (48:16)
They've got TCU, they've got, and then they finish at Baylor. I mean, I don't know if they're going undefeated that whole stretch, but that's also not the hardest schedule outside of ASU. Which again, like I said earlier, with the way that the special teams for ASU has been this year, that could be a game with that kind of matchup where they make just one or two mistakes, but it's something that turns the game.
I wouldn't count Houston out, and I'm not just saying that because I said back at Big 12 Media Day that I could see Houston being this year's version of last year's ASU team with who Willie Fritz is, what he does as a program rebuilder. ⁓ It would be bittersweet to be right about calling my shot on Houston like that, especially if it came at the expense of ASU, but I would be right.
Tom Hardon (48:57)
Thank you.
Andrew Hayslett (49:14)
Yeah, I also would be right because I wrote in my article too, there's a lot of similarities there. Transfer quarterback from a bigger conference coming in with a second year head coach. I noted similarities there and I thought Houston was a team everyone was underrating and so far I was right there.
Austen Bundy (49:15)
and.
Tom Hardon (49:18)
Thank
David Howman (49:38)
Yeah, Andrew and I know what we're talking about. I don't know what Austin and Tom are on about.
Tom Hardon (49:40)
Thank
Thank
Austen Bundy (49:45)
Well, I mean, look at you look at Houston schedule again, there's TCU popping up if ASU gets past Houston I'm just telling you it's one of those deja vu all over again moments you get past Houston You have your Kansas from last year that can potentially aid ASU on it on a ⁓
a bid to an unlikely bid to Dallas there because they can play spoiler almost three weeks in a row there for I hope for Houston and Cincinnati and BYU.
David Howman (50:17)
Yeah, in Sunny and Dyches we trust. So, you know, we've obviously spent the majority of the episode talking about ASU football and rightfully so. It was a huge weekend. was everything that we wanted in football. There were also other sports that were played this weekend. hockey did not have a great weekend.
It was a reversal of last week because football was was miserable but hockey had a had an eventful week This time we reversed fortunes Tell me a little bit. Don't tell me I know I Know what happened, but tell it tell everybody else what happened
Tom Hardon (50:43)
Thank
you
I'm just going to go on the record as saying that hockey crawled so football could fly this weekend. We sacrificed hockey to get the signature win for football. ⁓ But hockey played about eight minutes of solid hockey across two games in the state of South Dakota, taking on Augustana. ⁓
a highly under underrated team from the CCHA. Coming off of last season, Augustano was the number two team in the CCHA. Now in their full their first full season of CCHA play and eligibility for the postseason tournament.
Head coach here or boy had the Vikings ready to go as you jumped out to an early to nothing lead With ⁓ at the 810 mark of the game on Friday. Thanks to goals by Sam Alfano and Bennett shimek But Augustana just chipped their way back into the game tying the game ⁓ early in the second period and then
taking the lead for good midway through the third period and adding an empty netter to seal out the win on Friday night. And then on Saturday, after ⁓ the shine of football.
was washing over everybody. Augustana just quietly jumped in and took all the momentum away from the ASU fan base. It was tied 1-1 at the end of one period, but then Augustana owned the second period, owned the third period, had their own signature wins over ASU and...
hold off the upset sweep and sends ASU back home to Tempe with a two and four record going into the first bi-week of the season before ASU travels to Oxford, Ohio to take on the surprisingly 4-0 Miami of Ohio Red Hawks to open NCHC play. My star of the weekend for hockey was Cruz Lucius. After a lot of doubt,
last season as to whether he would live up to the hype that came when he transferred from Wisconsin. He has jumped out to six goals and six games and is really being the offensive powerhouse that that son of a hands expected him to be after averaging a point a game in his two years at Wisconsin. ⁓
Andrew Hayslett (53:33)
Yeah,
Cruz Lucius, he's been a guy who's been really, really explosive so far this season. ⁓ I wrote about it, like, he's been great on the power play, he's been great in five on five, but a lot of negatives to come from this series. Goaltending was ⁓ subpar. ⁓
a of penalties taken by the defensemen in first game. think was like four different guys had five different penalties in total, which allowed Augustana to get on the power play often. I don't think they were really super efficient on the power play that first night. I know they went over two in the second night, but...
Tom Hardon (54:20)
Augustana
was 0 for 6 on the power play on Friday night, countering ASU's 0 for 4.
Andrew Hayslett (54:26)
Yeah, ASU was able to go 1-for-6 Saturday night, is okay, allowing two short-handed goals, one of them was an empty netter, so that's kind of... takes that up. Yeah, take that with a grain of salt, but really, really underwhelming the power play so far this year as a whole, especially compared to what was last year.
Tom Hardon (54:41)
You take that with a grain of salt.
Andrew Hayslett (54:55)
What we saw was a ton of changes with the lines between game one and game two. Tom, I want to throw this to you. Were you surprised by that at all? And surprised that Sam Alfano, who scored a goal in the first game, was scratched in game two?
Tom Hardon (55:11)
I surprised to see him scratched, you also have to keep in mind that Jack Beck is going to be coming back for the games at Miami, Ohio. So Coach Powers is, I think, doing a little bit of tweaking to figure out who's going to be the go-to guys once Beck is in the lineup, because he will immediately slot into the top six. He's going to be a much needed ⁓
asset on offense for the team. It's finding the right pieces to scratch on a net weight basis. I was also surprised to see Braxton Whitehead get his first action of the season on Saturday. Again, I think that's some of that mad professor work to see who's going to be, who's going to earn the right to stay in the lineup on a regular basis.
Andrew Hayslett (56:05)
We also saw Tucker Ness, a guy who I like seeing play his first minutes as well. Another thing I kind of want you to little bit, ASU is going to get Jack back ASU is going to get Braze and Bozer back soonish. Something similar to last year is that
What we saw in the non-conference play is ASU lost a few games that they should have won, probably should have had a better record. Same story's happening this year. ASU had a ton of injuries in that non-conference play last year. This year, there's still lot of, not as many injuries, but still a few key injuries by guys like Beck.
boser that are probably going to be ⁓ top six forward and a top pair defensemen, I think, at the end of the day. And not having those guys out there, think, has shown that this team needs those guys out there.
Tom Hardon (57:06)
This team has the depth and they've been able to tread water, I think is the best way to put it. ⁓ But should have at least gotten a split of this weekend series. You can chalk up the two games against Penn State as playing very high level competition. And you don't feel bad about getting swept by the number five team in the nation. You do look back on
the series at Augustana and this is going to be a series that haunts ASU when the when the new MPI ratings start to carry a little bit more weight later on in the season.
David Howman (57:45)
So what you're saying is it's not time to panic yet for the hockey season.
Tom Hardon (57:50)
No, definitely not time to panic. ⁓ Conference season is just getting started in two weeks. ⁓ We've got the Miami ⁓ series in two weeks and then the NCHC home opening series against Colorado College the weekend after that.
I'm looking at the North Dakota series in late November to be a similar measuring stick to the Denver series from last season. I'm not expecting it's going to be, know, we're not going to see a 12 and 0 North Dakota team, but this is going to be a very similar measuring point to, you
Can ASU overcome the early season struggles and get those signature road wins?
Austen Bundy (58:44)
I'm gonna say, I'm just gonna put it out there right now. There's one series that I'm, or, there's a series of games, just any games this year, that ASU simply cannot lose if they're going to...
reestablish themselves in this conference it's the Minnesota Duluth games they are projected to be the worst team in the conference this year those are those are games you simply cannot lose you need to make sure you take care of business against the teams that you're supposed to be I mean again we're talking about how Augustana was as a respectable underrated program like
they all props to them for stepping up and beating ASU but when you know you've got a series of games coming up where you should take care of business you should not be dwelling around in the basement with any of these teams take care of business and make sure that you get the wins you're supposed to get because you need
If you don't have those, it's very hard to build momentum. And for a program like ASU that looks like it's on the verge of floundering in a year where it looked like they should be one of the most talented teams that they've ever had, those are the games you're to need to win. You need those rebound games. You need the games that you can circle on your schedule and say, you're getting all, you're getting these two victories in your win column. And I think if fans are going to look at a series that is probably going to be the bellwether for ASU still having a chance at booking a ticket to St. Paul.
next year it's going to be the Duluth games.
Andrew Hayslett (1:00:18)
For me, you ⁓ said ⁓ Duluth, Austin, you said North Dakota, Tom, I'm going to go a different way and go to the Ohio State games end of November on Thanksgiving weekend is that the non-conference matters a lot. you have, as a conference, the NCHU was some part of what normally was last year.
You gotta beat those big 10 teams who normally play a softer non-conference schedule and lot going against a lot of CCHA teams that are more bottom of the barrel. Not to say they don't schedule other teams, but.
You have to beat these big teams to say, ⁓ the NCHC is a great conference. we all say it was won seven out of the nine championships since it was created, I believe. So you gotta take that momentum and win those two games to say, okay, we are good in the non-conference.
back to a net last year losing two to Providence, tie and a loss to Michigan. Those stick out in particular and say if you can just go get one more win in those games that does a lot.
David Howman (1:01:43)
I'm partial to what Austin said, if only because it allows me to say, you gotta win those games against those teams. It's the equivalent of when you face the New York Giants. you know, a team like the Broncos can't possibly, you know, they can't afford to play around with a team like that.
Tom Hardon (1:01:44)
Thank
Austen Bundy (1:02:03)
holding on to that one for a long time I'm impressed.
David Howman (1:02:05)
I've been going this entire episode thinking how I can work that in there. So I'm happy I got it in there right there at the end. ⁓ But, you know, in wrapping up, you we've talked about ASU football, we've talked about ASU hockey. I do want to point out, of course, you know, we're coming to you Monday morning, we're recording this Sunday. And Sunday was actually the birthday for ASU women's basketball's new head coach Molly Miller. There's, you know, her players have been wishing her
Happy birthday, pretty much all day. And we're getting close to the start of that season. This Tuesday and Wednesday actually is the Big 12 Women's Basketball Media Days as well. So we're gonna get ⁓ a lot of coverage of that in anticipation for the new season. There's a lot of excitement around women's basketball as well. ⁓ Curious to see where ASU is picked to finish in there.
I'll go ahead and shamelessly plug myself. I got to cast a vote in that poll, so I'm excited to see how much I was off from everybody else. ⁓ But I do think that that's going to be exciting to follow this season, especially with this new approach that Coach Miller has. So happy birthday to Coach Miller. I'm excited to follow the media day this week coming up.
And, you know, we're on to Houston for football. We're going to be coming back Friday with more specific analysis of that game, what Houston brings to the table, how ASU can get that win. ⁓ And I'm really looking forward to it. I know everybody else is.
Tom Hardon (1:03:44)
David, real quick, before we sign off, I do also want to give a shout out to our volleyball team completing the sweep of the Utah schools, defeating BYU three sets to two and Utah three sets to one, both on the road, 16 and two on the season, and continuing to carry that weight too.
David Howman (1:04:07)
Mm-hmm, they're having a heck of a year.
Andrew Hayslett (1:04:07)
JJ Van Neel.
JJ Van Neel, continues to be impressive. I think I love Kenny Dillingham, but I think what JJ Van Neel has done has been the most, he's the most impressive coach in the ASU Athletic Department right now. And that's, think saying so.
David Howman (1:04:26)
That is a bold statement. You came out at the beginning of this episode ⁓ with some bold statements and you're ending it the same way. I appreciate it. J.J. Van Neel has been really impressive. What he's done with the volleyball program ⁓ is really impressive. And I won't weigh in on which one's better or worse. I'll just say I'm really happy that Kenny Dillian and J.J. Van Neel are at Arizona State and Greg Powers and everybody else. We can go down the whole list.
⁓ And you know volleyball like you said getting the win over BYU I think that's just manifesting that Even in football as well there will be even though they don't play there will be victory over BYU when it comes to the standings at the end of the year as well ⁓ So until next time when we're talking about Houston ⁓ Signing off for Austin and Andrew and Tom I'm David Hellman with Echo from the Buttes as always give them hell devils
Tom Hardon (1:05:14)
it.