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The Sword&Spade podcast is about...
Jason M Craig (03:12.856)
All right. Hello, friends and brothers. Welcome back to the sword and spade podcast. The podcast I was born out of. I usually say the best Catholic magazine ever, but I realized that the man I'm talking to also publishes a Catholic magazine in Minnesota, in Minnesota, Minnesota Catholic. On today's podcast, we have Tyler Blansky, the author of find your fight.
I don't have the subtitle up here. Hold on. Wait, it's worth the subtitle was good too. Let me find your fight. Rugged wisdom for faithful dads. He refused to settle. I'm looking forward to this. there it is. He's got it. Okay. Tyler, welcome to the sword spade podcast.
Tyler Blanski (04:01.118)
Jason, it is so good to be here.
Jason M Craig (04:03.63)
Man, well, one, I'm so sad I haven't read this book yet because someone sent it to me and I sent me the link to it. Excuse me. And I thought, man, I got this looks great. And then it came up that we're interviewing you and I thought, oh, yeah, I need to read that. So hopefully today we don't just cover the whole book so people feel like they don't need to read it, but actually they can they can come back to it and have a reason, even more reason to read it. But one, Tyler, just tell me real quick, tell our listeners a little bit of
Tyler Blanski (04:29.8)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (04:34.028)
of your story, where you came from and where you are now.
Tyler Blanski (04:38.28)
Yeah, thanks Jason. My wife and I, we have four kids. We live here in just in this suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm a very boring dad. I mow the lawn. I bring my kids to baseball practice. I just love living a Catholic life right here in the suburbs, which is something I never thought I'd ever say because most of my life before being received into the church,
about 12 years ago, I just didn't want to have anything to do with Catholicism or the suburbs. I was going to be an urban church planter, a city mouse, an artist, and now I'm just a businessman doing suburban things every day. I'm...
Jason M Craig (05:25.688)
You became you became the man. You're now the man that a young Tyler would have thought. You're just. OK, actually, I look, I'm just going to I'm just going to jump ahead because I was so fascinated. I looked up some of your other stuff, some of your other writing, other interviews and you.
Tyler Blanski (05:28.788)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (05:44.878)
You had the comment that, you know, for a long time you thought Jesus was, and a lot of people would fill that in was boring for women and children. And, and, but you actually said you thought Jesus to follow Jesus had to be absolutely radical, um, sort of vagabond. And that's, that's intriguing. Cause I think a lot of people grow up. That's not what they're thinking. They, they're, really conditioned with a nice and polite Jesus. So where did.
Tyler Blanski (06:07.591)
Mmm.
Jason M Craig (06:12.106)
Where did your like where did this idea because and also with your book i'm just going to frame it for people I thought all right. This is going to be like tough guy outdoorsman adventurer thinks christianity is too safe, but actually Turns out you can you know, you can be tough and change diapers, too. But then It actually seems that no you're actually highly and severely Converted to jesus christ in the in the radical
Tyler Blanski (06:12.692)
yeah.
Tyler Blanski (06:18.238)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (06:24.436)
I'm
Jason M Craig (06:39.4)
side of Christianity. So that's really what you're you're not saying, hey, you need to find your fight because you've been tamed in your vision of Jesus. It's it's it's actually you almost had to tame your wild vision of Jesus in order to accept a boring life, which I find very interesting and very different from a lot of authors. So tell me first the story of how did you. Develop.
Tyler Blanski (06:56.341)
Hmm
Jason M Craig (07:09.07)
Because I feel you on this, by the way. I really feel a sort of like guilt over, I know this is gonna sound like having a home, right? So I'm a plow subscriber, right? I like those radical Anabaptists. And I'm a Catholic guy. I when I moved to where I am now, I went across the street, I'm like, they're Anabaptists. And it turns out they're basically Methodists. They weren't even radical at all. So.
Tyler Blanski (07:23.571)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (07:37.002)
Anyway, tell me yeah, tell me the story of how you came to sort of this more radical vision of Jesus that in some ways is What a lot of people probably need to hear but you actually had to be converted away from in some sense
Tyler Blanski (07:51.135)
That's so funny. I have never had that thought until you said it, but it's so true that the caricature is that Jesus is placid, weak, Sunday school, kind of Sunday school cartoon. Yeah, guess growing up, I went to a Baptist church in the Twin Cities here.
that really celebrated and supported missionaries going overseas. And growing up in that kind of small culture, I really got it into my head that to follow Christ, you had to be radical. You had to sell everything, move to Africa, learn a language.
maybe be persecuted for your faith. Very likely I would end up in prison in a third world country. And that's why I would memorize Bible verses, in case I was ever in prison in the future. It never occurred to me that it would be okay or even God's will.
for me to just live a normal American life. So, you know, in high school I grew long dreadlocks. I worked at a organic foods co-op, which was pretty revolutionary in the late 90s. A lot of people weren't doing that.
and I wanted to be radical for Jesus. I used to be an artist and one of my albums was to fundraise for the homeless in the Twin Cities and I lived in an attic above a recording studio in uptown Minneapolis and I had no idea that in a few years I would end up becoming Catholic and be a father and happily
Tyler Blanski (09:48.573)
a homeowner and a boring cul-de-sac in a third-ring suburb.
Jason M Craig (09:54.05)
Wow, so tell me then, I mean, when you read about the more radical movements, right? The church has plenty of them, because we have our saints. then, now we also have the great blessing, I'm a convert too, by the way. We have the great blessing of the divisions of really clergy, religious, and lady, which are wonderful divisions. There a lot of people celebrate blurring those lines.
Tyler Blanski (10:05.426)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (10:23.744)
and saying we're all collaborators on the same mission. I'm like, no, we're not. No, we're not. Because I'm actually opposed to calling everyone a missionary because it kind of downplays the fact that some missionaries, you know, like I'm not doing what Isaac Jogues dig. OK, by being friendly to my neighbor. And I think actually neighborliness is a perfectly good virtue. It doesn't have to be called. I'm not a missionary to my. In fact, if I become a missionary to my neighbor, it actually you know what it does? It makes it weird. So
Tyler Blanski (10:28.222)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (10:46.867)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (10:53.696)
I'm for those divisions. But when you read the yeah, did you have to make peace with this? You read like the rat, the Dorothy Day stuff. Like, are you still drawn? you do you ever feel like actually, I know I just sold out and wrote a book to make myself feel better. Or are you like, no, I really embrace the truth of my vocation.
Tyler Blanski (10:53.779)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (11:14.984)
Yeah, I think that's an honest question is writing, find your fight, is this self-justification or is it actual theological reflection and an earnest inquiry into the nature and philosophy of fatherhood and citizenship? I think it's actually a mix of both.
Jason M Craig (11:42.178)
Ha, that's honest, that sounds honest.
Tyler Blanski (11:44.637)
Yeah, well, I don't know if I could deny that there's no self-justification here, but that's kind of the beginning of the story was waking up and realizing I thought I was going to be an Anglican priest, went to seminary, became Catholic along the way. My wife and I were receiving the church and I had no career prospects. It had been a six-year...
project to build up a network for this whole career, this vocation to be a priest, an Anglican priest and everything was just shattered and we had a baby on the way and thankfully the local parish priest took me in, started as a youth minister and then became a DRE and I loved it.
But eventually I couldn't provide for my family on that salary and I had to enter the world of business.
And that was such a moment for me of it was the first time in my life. I was in my 30s, but it was the first time where I had to do something that seemed... In college, I used to judge business majors. I was a poet. I had watched the Dead Poets Society and I had smoked a pipe and I didn't think there was... the business was an option.
Jason M Craig (12:56.791)
you
Tyler Blanski (13:02.924)
It became clear to me my vocation wasn't to be a priest. I had already entered the sacrament of marriage. I was a father. This was my vocation. This is the job that God has given me to do and I want to do it well. But it can be tricky. There's some landmines here and there. So this book, Find Your Fight, really unpacks the kinds of questions that a lot of
fellow fathers, friends of mine that they're asking, that they're wrestling with when it comes to purpose, meaning, and especially in middle age when you're not, you should lose some of that young, I don't know what you'd call it, not fire, but maybe you just become a little more realistic and you have so many responsibilities you can hardly see through them.
What does faith look like in that situation? So I lean into it.
Jason M Craig (14:00.78)
Yeah, I'm reluctant. Yeah, I'm reluctant to call it. What was the word you just used for the the the it's not that you're losing. I think you're Martin Shaw. You say the stories of initiation, stories of growth have different colors related to them. You there's like in very various fairy fairy tales, there's colors and there's typically red.
Tyler Blanski (14:22.388)
Hmm.
Jason M Craig (14:23.788)
black and white. There's three horses, a red horse, a black horse, a white horse. And the red is the veracity of youth, and it's on fire red. And it has its downsides, pride, arrogance, all this stuff. And then black.
Tyler Blanski (14:28.178)
Hmm.
Jason M Craig (14:39.57)
is the sorrow, the suffering, and even then also just sort of the mundane, the inner suffering. And then white is when it sort of coalesces in a sort of a more communal whole big picture thing. And I think he was making the point that a lot of us get stuck in the black in middle age. There's something about like just the, it hasn't quite coalesced where we see the big aha picture. We sort of feel like we're not quite in the red anymore. It's just like, we just stuck on black here?
Tyler Blanski (14:45.07)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (14:51.86)
Hmm.
Tyler Blanski (14:58.772)
you
Tyler Blanski (15:06.61)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (15:09.454)
then what are the questions? mean, did you have, was the book inspired? It's obviously your own experience of really wrestling with going, well, this is my life. I'm here to make the money that pays the bills and get people to where they need to go and wipe the butts that need wiping. But was it also born, did you have like a community, like a brotherhood of men around you? So you're stepping in a fraternist's world with sword and spade and it's.
Tyler Blanski (15:25.918)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Jason M Craig (15:37.612)
Given our name, we are we are all about that. The the Brotherhood of Men is the basic of civic society, cultural renewal, all sorts of stuff. So did you have a was there like some men you were wrestling with this like was there conversations? Was there fights like is there a back story there?
Tyler Blanski (15:37.907)
Yes.
Tyler Blanski (15:47.185)
yeah.
Tyler Blanski (15:53.653)
Absolutely. I mean every good every good thing comes out of some fight with a friend Yeah, the whole introduction really leans into That this book was born of you know countless hours sitting around the fire with with my guys And a couple book clubs and different groups through the parish and without these guys. I don't know where I'd be
like their fathers, their husbands, their men of faith. And we can just drink whiskey and talk and sit around the fire and get real. Sometimes we can get silly, but they keep me on the straight and narrow. And I would agree with you. think all great things are born of friendship. And...
It's a book about being a father and a husband, but none of that's really possible for a man if he doesn't have friendship in order. know, the ancients, it was the highest of loves, philia, and all the good things.
From the Socratic school to medieval college to the founding fathers to Carol Otewa with this underground thespian club, all the good things come from friendship. Guys coming together and saying, we're gonna do this. We're gonna buy some houses. We're gonna rip up these trees and make a field. We're gonna build a church. I love that.
Jason M Craig (17:26.666)
So then what were the What were the quite what what were they? I Mean you wrote a book called find you find your fight. What were they saying that you're like, you know what guys? We need to find our fight I mean, is there a particular instance that like Yeah, that was the moment. I'm like we got we got a we got to articulate this guys
Tyler Blanski (17:33.339)
Tyler Blanski (17:42.216)
Yeah.
Yeah, I think there's a drift that can happen when you get into your 40s. You're pretty busy. You and your wife can feel like your ship's passing in the night between bringing the kids to Catholic school, pick up...
sports, dance, piano, domestic things, grocery shopping, you're just so, you're spread so thin. All of it's good. You just, and you feel sort of guilty, like these are first world problems to complain about. But in the midst of it, you feel like you've lost some of the clarity and the fire that you had when you were in college or when you were in your 20s and the world just seems so black and white and now it's more gray.
many ways. The title was kind of a late decision and there was a team that came up with it and it was the book was originally called and maybe this does maybe this is boring but I originally called it A Father Looks at Forty.
and it was just a play on the Jimmy Buffett song, A Pirate Looks at 40, of just growing old. What does it mean to grow older, aging, having to do morning stretches, not being able to drink as much whiskey or coffee, up to your eyeballs and with responsibilities? But then the book was called American Catholic because it became an inquiry into can you be Catholic and American at the same time?
Tyler Blanski (19:24.624)
know, America is a very Protestant country in its founding and some of its principles and you know, how do you, you know, turn the other cheek as Christ exhorts us to do and yet, you know, have a flag that says, don't tread on me. These two things, are they in opposition? What's the...
What does the pursuit of happiness have to do with the pursuit of holiness? So the book, every chapter is meant to be, it doesn't, you don't have to read it in sequential order. Every chapter is its own essay exploring Catholic citizenship, how to keep the flame alive in your marriage, to, there is a chapter on finding your fight. The phrase finding your fight really means
When the going gets rough and your kids, your wife, need you. They need you financially. They need you to be an emotional leader, a spiritual leader. Finding that fight to get up and go to work. I think a lot of books out there about fatherhood lean into the spiritual element, which makes sense since we're Catholic. This book kind of leans more into the practical elements of why you should mow your lawn, why you should strive to grow your income.
and your impact in the marketplace. Other disciplines that are just as important, not just, that are very important for a father to fulfill his mission.
Jason M Craig (20:54.882)
Yeah, that's interesting that, well, one, you can solve, yeah, the don't tread on me is a, that's a liberal problem, right? That's just libertine instead of libertarian is still from the liberal tradition. The way you can convert it is just say, don't tread on us is my understanding. But I am a, I'm a recovering libertarian, but that's not what we're gonna talk about today. That.
Tyler Blanski (21:09.8)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (21:13.438)
Yeah.
you
Tyler Blanski (21:21.384)
Yeah, I think me too a little bit. I think most conservatives, broadly speaking, are recovering libertarians. this is exactly the tensions between democracy and Catholicism and Jesus telling you to sell everything you have and abandon father and mother and follow him. And yet...
doing the opposite as a father, know, saving for retirement, saving for a down payment on a home, saving for braces for your kids or hockey skates. I mean, none of this stuff is cheap and you're the guy that's gotta foot the bill. You can't go start a GoFundMe page for that.
Jason M Craig (22:04.194)
Yeah, what?
Yeah. Well, I think it's again, I'm going back to this. I think we need some re clerical ization of the church and less blurring. And the reason and I, this is probably coming up too much on too many podcasts, but the reason is that the, calls, the, great commissions, the
Yeah, and there's of course the the ghost cell all you have and there's things that we try to soften right like it's it's harder for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than a rich man. You know, a lot of people try to soften that with like, that's no the eye of the needle was actually this gate and it was hard for a can. No, no, he meant it as it like that's that's ridiculous. That's not even true. That's bad scholarship. So there is the the tension, I think, in the American mind and heart that we do believe that we have reconciled.
that you actually can love god in mammon at the same time, right? So there's a certain error I think running through our veins as americans that we can love these things. However The the the calls to the great commissions and these like go out and be missionaries. They are explicitly too clergy and
Tyler Blanski (23:19.593)
Hmm.
Jason M Craig (23:20.258)
When those clergy, St. Paul, St. Peter, St. John, when they write letters back to their communities that become our scripture, they're actually writing them to people that they presume in their language that you will have to live together for generations and a long time. You better start loving one another and taking care of one another and building and working hard and he who doesn't work doesn't eat. like these, it's actually very practical, very natural and in a sense, less radical looking.
Tyler Blanski (23:47.7)
Mm-hmm.
Jason M Craig (23:50.092)
because I think we should acknowledge they were talking to laymen and they were talking to lay people about how practically to just take care of one another, which involved working and money and not being a freeloader and not being a busy body and, you know, not being idle. And, I think it's, it's much easier when we settle in and go, this is my vocation. I am a layman and my job is to have.
Tyler Blanski (23:54.58)
Mm-hmm.
Jason M Craig (24:17.388)
and then raise, means to bring to perfection children. And for that, you know, you know what I do? I don't, I don't leave. don't constantly spill out all over the world. I build walls and I take care of them and I paint the walls and then, you know, I keep people safe inside those walls. is like, it's so anyway, I think if we can kind of reclaricalize our language, it becomes easier. at the same time, I think, you know, there there are books that just
Tyler Blanski (24:35.806)
I'm
Jason M Craig (24:43.82)
really blessed are you poor by Thomas DuBey. I I think our attachment to material goods and wealth is something that we should examine.
Tyler Blanski (24:52.124)
I agree. think the tension between detachment, a father, all of us are called to be detached from our possessions and wealth, and yet the father has to pursue these things and be a steward of them and grow it. And so how do you hold that in balance of being detached from the very thing you spend most of your day pursuing?
I think it's totally doable. love how Paul in 1 Corinthians, he's like, you know, I wish everyone could be a bachelor like me. It's great. You're totally focused on Jesus. He's like, but alas.
Jason M Craig (25:24.652)
Yeah.
not worried about your wife.
Tyler Blanski (25:31.445)
Yeah, he's like, but unless you burn so that you don't burn with passion or be consumed by your passion, you know, it's good to get married. But then he says the point, and this is awful paraphrase, I apologize, is he's like, a married man, an unmarried man, his interests are undivided and he is focused only on pleasing Christ, while the married man, his interests are divided and he's focused on pleasing Christ and his wife.
I love how he uses the word pleasing to describe he's pleasing Christ and pleasing your wife and this divided interest. And if we were to draw concentric circles, I think that captures a husband's predicament. He's one foot in each world or two different centers of gravity.
the marriage becoming a sacrament helps bring clarity to that is that they do overlap and that pleasing your wife and pleasing Christ are not in opposition to each other. It is through pleasing your wife that you are actually pleasing Christ. But you gotta keep your eye on the goal.
Jason M Craig (26:41.164)
Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting because I, I'm actually looking it up right now because I believe, he actually says a married man in some translations, a married man is worried about his wife, which I think is both, sort of descriptive and prescriptive that that's the reality because we, have become.
Tyler Blanski (26:55.282)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (26:59.806)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (27:02.742)
as Paul also gives us one flesh, right? She has become our body, so it is our concern. And I would say, yeah, not to, you wanna be careful of trying to mature or correct an apostle, but when we go from actually, it's not divided when we become unified in the union of wills in our marriage, and we do become truly one flesh, that there's...
Tyler Blanski (27:05.332)
Hmm.
Tyler Blanski (27:09.704)
Yeah, there's...
Jason M Craig (27:26.542)
We become less divided at that point and we can now pursue as one body, you know, got together. And obviously we're in a sinful world. So we're constantly rubbing each other wrong and making snide comments and pissing each other off. So, uh, but that, that's an interesting point. It's so it sounds like, mean, would you, and just some background, you know, but you know, I, I'm a homesteader. I wrote a book called Liturgy, the land that really takes on that.
the great tension today, but in men in their homes is actually created by the suburbanization of America. The fact is to do anything well in suburbia means leaving home versus whether it's because if you're good at your job, you're gonna be gone more and travel more. If you're good at sports, you're gonna be on the travel team. Whatever you're good at, if you get good at anything,
Tyler Blanski (28:03.774)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (28:11.432)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (28:21.204)
Hmm.
Jason M Craig (28:22.636)
Then it has a centrifugal force away from the home. And so the argument of that book is that homesteading or at least home based craft has a centripetal force. It brings you back. It forces you back, but it sounds like your book really is the wrestling with the fact and the reality that most men in order to provide and to be in a realistic setting will find themselves in the suburbs. because not necessarily even by choice, but because that's what's available. There's we have.
Tyler Blanski (28:26.665)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (28:31.508)
Yeah.
I love that.
Tyler Blanski (28:46.004)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (28:50.782)
Ha ha ha!
Jason M Craig (28:51.318)
We have an entire economy that is funneling you towards the suburbs because it is, it's the, in a, in a consumer based economy, it's the best place for a father to be. So I had argued in this book, you know, in sort of defense of the people that are, you know, romantically drawn to, to other crafts and farms and things, but that's wildly, I mean, even since writing that book, I would say even more so it's wildly unrealistic for most people.
Tyler Blanski (29:13.416)
Yes.
Jason M Craig (29:20.088)
But it sounds like what you've done is reconciled or you've had to, I guess you're wrestling with the fact that this is hard and this is a fight and that it really takes dad to be engaged to keep this, I don't know, together.
Tyler Blanski (29:20.136)
Well, I'm jealous.
Tyler Blanski (29:33.747)
Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could homestead. It'd be, we've thought about moving to the country. You don't even want to say homesteading because the people that really know what they're doing will just roll their eyes. But whether it's just a hobby farm or just being out in the country, there is something so not just romantic, but meaningful about actually taking care of land and being responsible for it.
Jason M Craig (29:51.182)
in room.
Tyler Blanski (30:02.772)
in a way that goes far beyond just making sure your grass is mowed and your flowers are potted well. I wish we could. But that's part of, this is why, so the book, most of my life I just hated suburbia and I see it as it's a place to be that practically but then...
In itself, there is redemption here. There is something worth pursuing. And the opportunity for neighborliness is just wild. At least in our neighborhood, we go for a walk and we bump into everybody of every shape and size and creed.
every day and it's a pretty vanilla neighborhood and it's just the different flags, the different walks of life, and we're all talking and the civility that we practice towards one another, I see it as fertile ground for evangelization. Speaking of the tension between, you know,
An image that's often come to mind, I keep coming back to this in these conversations, is I saw a movie about St. Francis when I was a kid where it's a very powerful scene. And maybe you've seen it where he strips naked in the town square and he hands everything he has to his materialistic dad who owns the textile factory in town. And then he runs into the forest to...
to be one with nature and God. That had a huge impact on me growing up. The dad was always in my mind the worst of the worst. You pay lip service to the Lord, but you're actually so attached to your business and your community that you could never leave to follow Christ and pursue him alone. I wanted to be like St. Francis.
Tyler Blanski (32:10.632)
And somehow becoming Catholic, found myself deeply invested in and passionate about the domestic church, the sacrament of marriage, raising my children, all these things that were, I was like, hold on. I actually have more in common with St. Francis' dad than with St. Francis. And this book is sort of redeeming the father.
the man who employs the other villagers, who puts food on the table, who makes something. And I'm really excited that Louis and Zellie Martin, Trez's parents, that they're now canonized saints because I think they do this, their story is just a great reminder that holiness can happen in the ordinary.
They had a, not a textile, Zellie had a lace making business, Louie was a watchmaker. I these are very affluent things to be making. The businesses they were in and Zellie scaled her business. There's all these letters and...
her writings explaining like they're talking about the nanny and the house help and the servants and the staff and the tension of keeping the staff employed and like how big was this enterprise? This is quite a, they have investments in the market and they're concerned about their portfolio rising and falling and other investments of land and buildings and.
and they were saints. To me, that's just a wonderful reminder that citizenship and sainthood can go hand in hand and are often mission aligned.
Jason M Craig (33:57.004)
Hmm. Yeah, that's fascinating. So do you have a what's your metric? What's your way of of, you know, looking at someone and going, you're doing it wrong, right? You're following the world in manna because I really like what you're saying about St. Francis that, well, if his father would have done that, who would be out on the street that make his own family? Right. Like, because so there's a certain,
Tyler Blanski (34:12.916)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (34:19.74)
Yeah, the whole village, yeah.
Jason M Craig (34:23.51)
Reality of a father, you know and st. Paul and again, he's writing to lay fathers He's you know, a man doesn't take care of his family is worse than an unbeliever I mean, this is the most obvious thing we have to do is Is to care for and provide so what's your do you have a philosophy or a metric or a? Zinger to help recognize that it does seem I mean we can look
You know, I'm sure we could find some sort of data or plenty of anecdotes about how many men pursue career wealth, money status to the detriment of their family. So we want to be careful not to give. And I mean, that's an obvious thing, the lack of formation that's given to them, the lack of attention, the worldliness, the scandals, the divorces. So where where's the advice, the metric, the council?
Tyler Blanski (34:59.475)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (35:11.502)
How do we recognize that? Because we want to be careful. hear I'm in agreement with with again, the layman taking care of his family is a beautiful and economic reality. That's what household means is, you know, or that's what economy means is taking care of your house, your household. So, yeah, what's your what's your advice or metric to the extreme? But just I'm not going to let you say, well, you're just doing it too much. There's got to be there's got to be something better than that.
Tyler Blanski (35:37.063)
Ha
You know, I wouldn't have... That's never crossed my mind.
I wouldn't have even a metric to measure men by in that way, just by looking at them or, the scales of tip, your house is too big, your SUV is too large, your portfolio is too diverse. I wouldn't even know what to say about that because everyone's story is so different.
and their measure, it would be impossible. But I would say, don't let your love grow cold. If you're lukewarm, Christ will spit you out. If I were to measure, if I were to get to know a man and not just judge him superficially, if I were to get to know a man, I'd look for the heat to be on, on the stovetop.
He's got a lot of things cooking. He's full of passion for Christ, the saints, his family. The more you love your wife, the more you love your children, that doesn't mean the less you love God, right? There's no competition. So I'd be looking for where he's been fanning the flame of his desire for heaven and for the growth and success of the Church and the Great Commission.
Tyler Blanski (37:05.03)
Everyone expresses that so differently and guys sometimes aren't very good at articulating that as you've probably experienced when you're sitting around a fire with a bunch of guys, but it comes through and sometimes it comes through... I guess I'm not really testing other guys, but I'm impressed by the men that are doing it well and sometimes they don't say a lot. They're just they volunteer a lot. They give their time.
when we had our most recent baby, I was happily, joyfully shocked at how many families signed up for the meal train. I just couldn't, I couldn't believe it. Everyone's so busy and they're like making these meals and driving through traffic to deliver them to us. And maybe someone would say, you know, that's not very spiritual. That's not as...
righteous as going to the inner city and serving at a homeless shelter filling up soup bowls. But I don't know. I feel like if you can't even love and take care of the parishioners in need around you, yeah. I hope I might be rambling. I don't have a metric, but I have learned some lessons.
Jason M Craig (38:22.978)
Well, yeah, well, I think you've got, I mean, you did it. I don't mean metric on like, yeah, the size of his ass. Although, I mean, come on, there's a certain point that thing is just huge. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. What I mean is, you you as a man who's learned to recognize.
Tyler Blanski (38:36.725)
We'll see you tomorrow.
Jason M Craig (38:42.294)
what actually is the indicator that the heat of the fire, the warmth of your love towards those things that you that you ought to love. And it seems that the, what happens is when the love of the game, the success loses sight of really why you're doing it, which is relatively easy, I think for men, because if you go to work and you win,
Tyler Blanski (39:04.88)
Mm-hmm.
Jason M Craig (39:09.592)
and then you go home where relationships are cold and drifting and you lose, well then you're gonna want to, as a man, go to where you're winning and leave behind where you're losing. So you're just saying keep that heat on. I would, 100%, I mean that's, again, some of the ideals of both America and suburbanization in itself is that our charity, our goodness is sort of our own choosing, that we can.
Tyler Blanski (39:09.906)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (39:18.057)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (39:39.362)
go to the soup kitchen and that that's just objectively and obviously a good thing to do. Whereas I don't think so at all because it's not the measure. Jesus isn't, he doesn't say find the most extreme example within driving distance of where they might need help. He says love your neighbor. And what if your neighbor was your neighbor? And then again, scripture is very clear.
Tyler Blanski (39:56.206)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (40:03.938)
You're supposed to do good to everybody. You're supposed to be good to everybody. But if you don't take care of the household of faith, meaning your parish, then what are you doing? You haven't understood. You've lost the plot here. So taking care of and that's a, that's kind of a constant thing in the fraternity of fraternists is that taking, knowing, caring for, taking care of one another is not an option among other good things to do. It's actually
Tyler Blanski (40:11.016)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (40:31.662)
the necessity and the expression of your conversion to Christ is that you, you know, we like talk first, uh, first John three 14. This is how you know, you've moved from life to death when you love the brotherhood, not when you've gone on mission trip, not when you've done the most radical thing. Now it's when you love the people that God has, you've been born through baptism into sibling hood with, right? These are, and you're not getting away from them. They're your siblings. Now they're your brothers, not your friends. They're your brothers. So
Tyler Blanski (40:44.468)
Hmm.
Tyler Blanski (40:53.192)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (41:01.486)
I think you can relate where as I get older and I'm only in my 40s, so it's not like I'm old and wise yet, but there's definitely this... I've learned some lessons of don't judge guys one way or the other. Growing up, I definitely thought wealthy people must be
shallow, not very spiritual, cold-hearted, something like that. And then I had the opportunity to do fundraising for many years. Sometimes full-time, that was like my career and...
Some of the wealthiest people I met were also the most on fire for their faith. what it was is that they were not only full of love and joy and all the virtues, they were just disciplined. They were smart. They were savvy. They had abundant energy.
and that they just brought this love everywhere they went. I've really learned you can be very wealthy and very, very holy. You can be very poor and very unholy. And you don't want to judge people for not making a certain amount. It doesn't matter. People are fighting different fights. They have different goals, different circumstances and backgrounds. Everyone's...
battling their own demons, you gotta love a guy for who he is. And just like how I would wanna be loved, I don't wanna be, it'd be awful if someone's like, you live in the suburbs and are a salesman, so I don't wanna, I'll think less of you. And that would be tragic. You wanna know what's God doing in them? What rivers of life are flowing through them? And what voice do they have to speak?
Jason M Craig (43:03.246)
This is so fascinating. I'm sorry. There's not a lot of people you you might think this is normal, but there's not a lot of people that are having to be converted from a radical view, particularly. It seems like what you really wrestled with in your young age was the talk about money and the New Testament, which is to an American ear is relatively extreme. So I've talked to plenty of people that recognize our need.
Tyler Blanski (43:20.969)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (43:26.578)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (43:33.358)
to look issues of wealth and money in the eye because it's something that I would argue, and I mean, it seems, I'm coming from a different background, that we've had to reconcile in the United States from our Calvinist backgrounds, the prosperity gospel backgrounds, the...
Tyler Blanski (43:48.35)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (43:53.686)
A lot of errors, you know, because I remember sharing office space with a sort of prosperity gospel person, and they had a book on there called The Vow of Prosperity, you know, instead of the vow of poverty. And I I and I opened it it's like making fun of it's like obviously God wants to give you things, you know. So anyway, there's.
Tyler Blanski (44:05.667)
Hahaha
Jason M Craig (44:13.186)
There is a lot of people that are challenging us and I think rightly so to look these things in the eye because there's an obvious danger. But no, it's not normal to, this is good advice for someone to have to be reconciled to the fact that there are holy businessmen out there. And I would attest to that. It's not actually that complicated. And I have experienced the same thing in fundraising. People that have the virtue of generosity.
Tyler Blanski (44:18.226)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (44:42.33)
are generous no matter what their state is. And I've known people and I've had this conversation of, when I am wealthy, I will be generous. It's like, well, if you don't have the habit now, you probably won't have it later. And there's a matter of being prudent and all that stuff. But in my experience with many, not all of them, but with many people that are just generous with their wealth, that they're actually.
Tyler Blanski (44:45.821)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (44:53.415)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (44:58.258)
Yeah. Yeah.
Jason M Craig (45:09.97)
their wealth allows them to compound the virtue they already have, right? Meaning their generosity is what the Medieval's would call magnificent, right? They're not just a little bit generous, they're magnificently generous, because they have the capacity to be that way. And I have encountered that, but I would say,
Tyler Blanski (45:24.082)
Hmm.
Jason M Craig (45:36.846)
The virtue, what you're describing as well, I'm not trying to judge a man on these, where he is or what he does with things. What we're actually really talking about is, this is a matter of judgment. This is a matter of, is there a virtue or not, right? Are they being guided by the principles of goodness, of truth, of beauty? And if you're not being governed by them, then you will tend towards being vicious. You will, meaning having vice.
Tyler Blanski (45:50.42)
Mm-hmm.
Tyler Blanski (46:01.523)
Mm-hmm.
Jason M Craig (46:02.83)
And that will and that will manifest itself in the way that you instead of bringing life with the things of With material things you have you take life right instead of recognizing the good and building up and constructing you tend to destroy and take and Gather into Barnes for yourself, right and not for your neighbor So I think it's still we can still have the radical view of it and like you're you know, the the Martin the Martin family or Martin family Is it being used?
Tyler Blanski (46:19.38)
blessed.
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (46:33.326)
at the service of your local community, because we're not gonna flatten everyone out, right? There are the men that employ and construct and in a certain way build the shelter that makes their community possible. And it's when those men disappear that it's actually worse because then you have, well, just the very, very wealthy and the...
Tyler Blanski (46:50.046)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (47:01.21)
and the extractive form of wealth versus the extreme private. And it's the men that actually are building, for lack of better words, local kingdoms that really do a lot to take care of people.
Tyler Blanski (47:03.987)
Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (47:15.156)
That was all very well said and Find Your Fight actually leans into so much of that. I'm not sure which way to go but there's a whole chapter called Our Lady of Grasshoppers asking the question of why did Catholics from Europe migrate to the Midwest to live their Catholic faith here?
and they did it in such an extraordinary Catholic way. One of the most densely rural Catholic populated area in the United States to this day is Stearns County in Minnesota, probably like an hour drive from my home.
And there's more steeples there per capita than anywhere else in the United States. It's just packed. And these people came and they were still living in huts. They hadn't even cleared the forest for their fields yet. And they were building these incredible churches that still stand today. And all the streets, everything is just so... They lived their Catholic faith. They saw the American opportunity as an opportunity to go further and deeper in their pursuit of Christ.
And so many of my peers today, we see America as an obstacle to our Catholic faith. Not an opportunity. And so I kind of tell some of their story and some of their hardships with these grasshopper plagues. Really great stories. But what strikes me about it is I want what they have. I want to reclaim this land right here in Eden Prairie, Minnesota as a place to establish a Kingdom Outpost.
which the Catholic Church has already done. I just want to lean into it and give it as much ventilation as I can. This is the place to come alive and to fulfill the Great Commission. Some might be called to Mongolia or South Africa or China. I really feel personally called to be right here.
Tyler Blanski (49:19.802)
in a suburb in the Midwest, shoveling my driveway, mowing my yard, and I hope creating what Anthony Esselen calls an outpost of normality in a world that's just all too familiar with homelessness.
Jason M Craig (49:34.388)
Mm-hmm, yeah. What's your view on, this comes up a lot, been our kind of rethinking from necessity, you know, the last generation or two, there's been a lot of disruption in these communities. Like I imagine that densely populated Catholic, it might still be the most densely populated, but probably had some disruption, right?
And so a lot of people are rethinking things, in a, in a word that comes up in my mind a lot. And I think I hear other people saying it, but I think maybe it's just me is just, the stability of fathers, meaning, not just that they're not moving all over the place, but that they're actually, they're a stable presence in their community for generations. now cause you, I think you mentioned, I don't know if it was before we got talking, but you know, you, you went back home. So
Tyler Blanski (50:19.954)
Yeah.
Jason M Craig (50:25.73)
What's your advice in thinking now, you know, in the realm of, okay, we need to, we need to make money. We need to provide income, but also it sounds like you're a man of roots. We need to root down. So what's your advice and thought on, you know, how do you make the decisions on or yeah, what are your thoughts on the role of stability for, for generations in a single place? that sounds like you'd be comfortable with it or as a lot of people we're, we're reluctant. I don't want to tie people down in that way. So yeah, yeah, it's not being tied down. being rooted.
Tyler Blanski (50:55.462)
I love being tied down. There's moments, right? There's moments where you're like, I long, you know, I'm an artist. I want to run wild free and all, but...
Jason M Craig (50:57.304)
Ha
Tyler Blanski (51:06.351)
Yeah, I think a father does what he doesn't feel like doing and my dream job was to be a catechist and I had that at a parish. It was amazing. I loved it. I got to geek out all day every day. I didn't want to go start a business. I didn't want to go become a salesman, but I kind of had to and I had limited options so I ended up going into that field because anyone can go into that field without a degree and
I had a degree in Christian studies and an MDiv. That doesn't serve you well in the marketplace normally. But I did it and then we moved back to the Twin Cities even though I did not want to move back at all. That's where my wife's family is, that's where my family is, and that's where our roots are and so we did it.
I could go on and you could, know, private paying for private school, all these things, but you do what you don't feel like doing because you're just the dad and your happiness is now found and your purpose is now so much more than yourself. It's total. I love that continuity. I think an album, actually, if anyone's listening to this, a great album
Luke Holmes' album, Fathers and Sons. It's so good. The whole album is just, which is just a great country album, just leans into every song as grandfathers, fathers, sons, this passing on of knowledge, the blessing. It's almost, it's very patriarchal. I think if like Father Abraham were to write
Like if you were a country singer singing to Isaac and Jacob, he and Luke Holmes would have a lot in common.
Jason M Craig (52:58.242)
Hmm. That's beautiful. So a lot of times, I ask people as we get towards the end, you know, what, kind of advice would you give? You know, young dads, that might be a question if you feel inclined to, but what's your advice to the men then? It sounds like this is what this book is primarily about. So this might be a very summarizing, answer or question is, you know, what about the guys in their forties that are losing the red feeling the black?
And are just in and and don't see the white and they're just getting Getting tired is that it sounds like the book is is is to them So without just telling me the title what's your what's your counsel for that guy?
Tyler Blanski (53:28.532)
You
Tyler Blanski (53:39.848)
Yeah. It is. Yeah.
Tyler Blanski (53:49.32)
I think.
Tyler Blanski (53:52.849)
I my counsel would be you need to become the kind of guy that savors things. You need to go on a quest to recapture your passion, your sexual passion with your wife, be a leader there.
It's your job to initiate all the time. It's her job to say no all the time. It's the ancient story of man and wife. But if you stop initiating, if you've checked out, you're losing the plot. So awaken your passion and then awaken your romance. Savor the wine. Cook a good meal. Notice your children.
Jason M Craig (54:19.266)
Ha ha.
Tyler Blanski (54:37.672)
Think about them. How are they changing this year? How are they different from last year? Savor the moments. Savor that cigar with your buddies. Linger there. Linger in the—enjoy it because you might get colon cancer. Like, it's—you're not young anymore and—
If you're not seeing and savoring the people around you, you're missing the whole point of being a dad, which is to raise up everyone around you. Notice them. Turn them in the light like you would like a glass of wine or a good whiskey. Notice it. Talk about them. Praise them. When you're praising your wife, when you're praising your kids, when you're praising the Lord, when you're seriously savoring the magnif-
I'm using magnificence because you just use it. The true beauty of the Eucharist, all that just, it'll fill you up and you'll find your passion again. Boring men live boring lives, but nobody, if you're interested, if you're awake, if you're praising everything, if you're a seer and a saver, I think you'll wake back up.
Jason M Craig (55:26.798)
That's a good word.
Tyler Blanski (55:49.852)
and you'll see that no matter where you are. You could be at end of a cul-de-sac, you could be downtown, you could be restless in a parish that's starting to feel a little too small for you. Just take moment to start seeing and savoring again.
Jason M Craig (56:05.4)
Beautiful. Tyler Blansky, I think you're my favorite guest so far because I asked what kind of advice would you give a sad guy and you said, and I paraphrase, go have sex with your wife. So great, great answer. Great interview. I highly recommend it. I'm going to get it today. Tyler Blansky's book, Find Your Fight. If you appreciated this podcast, we appreciate you. Make sure you subscribe to fraternist where you can get both the daily virtue
Tyler Blanski (56:18.174)
Well, yeah.
Jason M Craig (56:36.578)
Field guide based on Dom scoop Holy spiritual combat and you can get the magazine that comes out quarterly and if you want to follow Tyler Blansky Tyler, where do we go?
Tyler Blanski (56:47.444)
You can go to TylerBlansky.com and if you want to get find your fight you can get it on Amazon or at Ave Maria's website. I hope you love it or you might love to hate it.
Jason M Craig (57:01.302)
Hey, well, we'll read it. And if it's, if I don't like any of it, we'll have you back on and we'll argue about it. Does that sound good? Like brothers and we'll savor it. We'll savor it. Tyler. Thanks. Thanks for being on the sword's Bay podcast.
Tyler Blanski (57:09.95)
Let's, yeah, we'll see. Thank you Jason. Yes, thank you. I really enjoyed it. Wonderful conversation.