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Is the Architectural Profession truly diverse and inclusive?
Curated content, insights and opportunities to accelerate your career in Architecture, Design, Development and Real Estate to the next level.
Celebrating People of Colour within the Architecture Industry, ft. Savannah Williams
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[00:00:00]
Stephen Drew: Hello everyone. It's a late special. I didn't forget you. I've been busy. I've traveled to Wales, but I'm back to talk about something important and not on my own. I have a guest that is the point, isn't it, but a very good guest and if you're joining us, you can ask a few questions as well. 20 seconds.
Easter's coming. Easter Bunny. All right. 15 seconds.
Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us. Whether you're virtual live or listening to the replay on the podcast, I'm [00:01:00] glad you're here. It feels like it's been a while, but I haven't been going anywhere and I've been around. Online, they've been seeing things posted. If you are watching this right now, it's April, 2023 and we've got an exciting time.
We've got the upcoming president. Maki is gonna shake things up, but talking about the state of where things are today, it's quite interesting, our practices getting more progressive, more inclusive within the industry, or are we going back to our own ways? Are we abolishing the things that we've learned from the pandemic?
Or as an industry? Are we getting more and more responsible, more and more inclusive? And on that point, I want to talk about inclusivity in Architecture, but also I think it's a really important time to celebrate. People of color in Architecture. And on that note, I am joined here with an awesome guest who set up an awesome [00:02:00] organization a blog.
It's a really cool thing, which does a lot more than that. Events and all this stuff. And they will explain it in much better detail than I did, but I've got the fantastic. Savannah Williams from P O C in Architecture. How are you?
Savannah Williams: Hello. you for introduction.
Stephen Drew: Yeah it's good that you are here now, Savannah, I know you from online, but maybe before we talk about what P O C is and the kind of the wider topic, do you wanna just tell us briefly about who you are first of all?
Savannah Williams: Who I am. Okay. Currently I am an Architect and I'm working in London. And I studied my part one in the University of Liverpool. So I had an experience of living up north as the first time living away from home out of London. So it was a good experience. But it was a lot less diverse than London, I'd say.
But it was a good all experience for the same. And then I worked for a year and practice in London in a small residential company, which was really nice. Got [00:03:00] to learn from people because it was much smaller. And then I took my part two in Westminster University, which was it was nice to be back at home.
And be around my London friends and then also make new friends in London. That was nice. And then I got a job in London at Foster and Partners where I still am. And I completed my part three at the end of last year, which was great. So I finished education.
Stephen Drew: well done. did it. The hard slog part three.
Savannah Williams: long seven years log.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Even they, the a rrb are thinking they're shaking that up right now, isn't it? So it's
Savannah Williams: is true.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: But you've got it. You've done
Savannah Williams: But I've got it. Yeah. Even though it was long, I actually feel like it's, it does, it makes you feel like you've completed something. I feel like part one and part two is really exciting and it's enjoyable and you learn yourself as a designer and then part three gives you that extra layer of professionalism.
And the UK regulations. I know it sounds really boring, but actually once you complete it, you actually feel really. Proud of it. [00:04:00] So I think it's still valuable. And then aside that I, yeah, I set up a blog, as you said P Architecture during my part two actually. And then recently, at the beginning of this year, I registered it as a community interest company.
So
Stephen Drew: Amazing. I'll give you another round, of course, partly for the part three, but, all these good things start as a blog, start as an idea. And so p o C in Architecture, first of all, can you tell us what POC stands for and where that came from? What is POC about? And maybe just, and peel a little bit of what it's up to at the moment.
We can open the combo from there. Really.
Savannah Williams: Yeah, so the idea sprung to me actually after the George Floyd's murder, which was obviously in America, and it was during the pandemic. I was in the middle of doing the part two, and I just felt a bit like helpless to the situation. I can't really do anything about this. It's a problem that we've obviously had for [00:05:00] centuries.
Racial issues and polarization and all these things. And then I reflected on my own journey as a minority and Architecture and thought, how can I fuse these two things together? And I also started looking at like reports and statistics. And the, a RRB had done a report on how many black architects we have, and it was something like 1%.
And then I was looking at the RIBA. Education, statistics and black students were the lowest number and also ended up being the lowest who would complete or pass. So I thought, why is this? What's going on? So I started this blog, which was basically initially to start representation within Architecture.
So the first aim was to post part two final projects, because I also felt that on other mainstream Architectural online magazines, they weren't. There wasn't much representation basically. So that's the initial starting point was the blog and to give representation and also do interviews with [00:06:00] people of color in Architecture as well.
That's where it started. Yeah. A place for representation.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, it is interesting and I think it's important and I think that, I've been learning as well. We're all as we go where employers are working in the industry, but I think half of it is also challenging what is currently accepted and what can be improved. So for example I think that when I came into Architecture, long hours is as seen as a thing that's been accepted in that's the old ways in terms of Architecture, and there's a lot of talk about that as well as remuneration.
Equally, I think giving opportunities to people. From, backgrounds, which are, minorities. It can be due to financial reasons or certain situations. It is still a big problem in Architecture and I think that the part, we touched upon it, the part one, the part two, the part three route hasn't accessible from people from different backgrounds.
[00:07:00] Within the uk have you seen, since you set up P O C, you mentioned it was started as a blog even in the last three years. Tell us a bit about your journey on that and what you've perhaps learned and been involved with, and maybe, some things that can be celebrated as well. I'd love hear it.
Savannah Williams: Yeah. So I think one of the biggest things that I've really enjoyed from doing this was after doing the blog Then came about the idea of doing a mentorship program. So getting part one, primarily pri primarily part one, students who are in their final year to basically bridge the gap between education and practice.
Because if you don't see yourself in practice, it can be quite hard to feel like it's attainable to you or to feel like, oh, when I leave university, am I going to go into a practice and feel like I don't belong here? This type of feeling. Doing the mentoring program gives representation, but then also it allows students to have conversations with [00:08:00] architects who either look like them or don't look like them.
So it's about diversity and inclusion at the same time and integrating different people. That's, and also having the collaborative kind of relationship between education and practice. And that's basically why yeah, why I set it up really. And to give real life experiences. I even feel like for me, I didn't set this up so that I could personally gain from it, but I actually feel like having conversations with different people has been as rewarding has been really rewarding for me.
Really.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah and said. I've just put up a link on the bottom for our audio listeners. Actually, I should say that you can see all this at www dot poc and Architecture dot com, and you talked about mentoring Savannah, and I agree it's a two-way conversation, isn't it? Initially, I think P who are experienced, maybe they.
They don't have much time and they think, oh, I don't really have time to mentor someone. But actually you learn a lot when you do mentor someone. And actually the mentee often gives you [00:09:00] really valuable insight. And I think that it's very encouraging to when practices are starting to bring
Savannah Williams: Engage and,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Ex.
Exactly. And actually one quick example is Akron. Larry work a lot with the local schools to do work experience, which isn't necessarily cred credentialed like university course, but it actually gives them gives these people like a bit of an insight into what it's like to work within an Architecture practice.
So I really applaud you on that. What I was gonna say to you as well, so while I talking about inclusivity,
My, my particular background, I came into Architecture many years ago and as a gay man myself, I didn't really feel like the industry was that progressive at all. I didn't really want to talk about my situ situation, but in terms of people of color and stuff like that.
And you talked about representation. What are the kind of stories, Savannah, that you've [00:10:00] heard before? From people that you spoke to, is it generally that they felt for example a case of that they're in the man in the minority then, or is it getting better at the moment? I'd just love to hear a bit of insight on that from your perspective.
Savannah Williams: Yeah, I think sometimes for myself and also from peers as well who are of color, it's that kind of, you can get that imposter syndrome sometimes, which is. Maybe you are not at, people are not looking at you as if you're out of place. But it can feel like that sometimes. It's hard to describe.
And then if you have no one to talk to about this, that's like you, you have it just in your head and it builds up
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Savannah Williams: and you get self-conscious when actually maybe you don't need to be. But then there are obviously cases where there might be slight discrimination within the office and.
Sometimes you just don't feel comfortable talking to anybody about that because you think they might brush it off or they might not understand and that can be quite, that can be quite difficult I think sometimes. So I think also [00:11:00] the mentoring gives an opportunity. For you to maybe speak to an Architect outside of, say, education, because these can, things can happen in university as well.
And have a conversation with somebody who's in the profession and get a perspective on it. And also maybe teach them that, look, this is how sometimes these things are said can make someone like me feel.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Savannah Williams: so yeah, I think it's, yeah, imposter syndrome. And I think representation is really important.
Even like you're saying as a. Someone like yourself and someone like me, you felt in some way that it wasn't that open as well. So it can happen to females as well. So it was the same thing. I think in my part one, I remember we were in a lecture and somebody asked the question to one of the very old white men that were on the stage, do you think we have an issue with women and men in Architecture?
And he said, I don't see an issue here.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah,
Savannah Williams: enough. There's enough females in. I don't see there's a problem.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: There you go. I when [00:12:00] you said earlier, I almost bit my tongue, but I think that's the old perception of Architecture was that it's an old man, old white man's club where basically that was the way. And I do think it's changing, but you're right, we do constantly have to challenge the state as quo and and we're not alone actually.
So what I was gonna say to you is before. We are now doing this talk. It's a bit like Blue Peter. I did do a poll on LinkedIn and now I know everyone's got a Zoom with in, with a microscope, but it is live. I'll put in the link now, but basically I asked everyone. Do you agree that Architecture is an inclusive industry to work within, and 384 people have voted, and 63% of people slightly disagree or strongly strongly disagree with the sentiment that Architecture is an inclusive industry to work in [00:13:00] now.
Now, I'm not the best at math, but 63% is a majority. And actually the biggest part of it, so most people said that they slightly disagree are followed by people strongly disagreeing. And then people slightly agree it's inclusive. And then the minority strongly ag agreed, it's inclusive. So basically we all feel that this is not an inclusive industry or that there's things that we can do better.
But so I think there's a lot of work to do. But in terms of celebrating what we've done, what I would say is by the fact that I now see the P O C. The fact that we talked a bit earlier about the one to 100 podcast, which I think for anyone that hasn't checked them out, is amazing.
And it's seven graduates. Women of color in their words and seekers have changed. It's quite cool cuz all the ladies and women, they've [00:14:00] grown,
Savannah Williams: Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: in the time I've known them when they go in through their career. So it's very interesting. But where I'm getting there on the good note is I do feel like we, we are on the cusp of making it more inclusive and it's like a project where, if anything, the Architecture industry, maybe it's it's a house that needs a bit of renovation, but the potential is there, right?
Savannah Williams: then it's getting love each year. I feel like it's getting a bit more love. So it's going in the right direction. And even the mentoring thing, 50% this year of my fully qualified architects have come from people coming forward themselves, which is really nice. It's not me scouting them, it's them saying, oh, I wanna help.
I wanna be involved in this. So that's really positive as well.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Very good. I was gonna say cuz the, I mean if any Architecture practice out there is not woken up to the benefits of inclusivity across the studio. What I was gonna say to you, have you learned anything that, you talked about the mentoring, but aside from the mentoring, has there been anything [00:15:00] positive that you've also seen come out of Starting in the POC in Architecture, is there anything that Architecture practices could be doing to actively get better as well?
Or maybe is there things that people can do as an employee and introducing to the company to have a positive effect in your opinion?
Savannah Williams: I think, yeah, I think it, it could be good for companies to have you know how when you join a company you have like health and safety introduction and do's and don'ts and all of these things. I think it would be good to have a diversity and inclusion aspect to that as well, just so that people are aware of things cuz sometimes.
People might say things and not realize what they're saying. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes. So I think if there was like a, as you have the training courses for different things in the workplace, that there is a diversity inclusion one, to do with sex, gender, race, everything.
I think that would be a really good way for practices to ensure that they're showing, that they're trying to meet, be [00:16:00] more inclusive for when they do. Employ people that are minorities. I think that could be really helpful. And also collaborating with organizations like myself, or like we said, 1 0 1 podcasts, poor collective black females in Architecture, like collaborating with these organizations just makes the message even stronger really.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah. Very cool. And I think that's good productive advice for Architecture practices. So you should be listening and if you are writing all this stuff down now when I talked about earlier, my own experience on one end, the scale. I was enjoying the Architecture practice, but like you said, when you can't maybe talk about certain things or you don't feel like it's appropriate to me to mention them, I think it can be quite lonely, isn't it, in the industry as well.
And what I was gonna say is that on the P O C website, Which I will bring up again and people should check it out. You do have a forum and
Savannah Williams: I do.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: and the Architecture. Social [00:17:00] has a forum as well, and I quite love these little hubs. You've got Instagram, which is in some sense is a community.
But maybe what would be cool to note is, so someone's out there and they're feeling a bit lost or on their own or whatever. How can they get involved in POC or have you, you start, is there a way that people can kinda get involved in events and stuff?
Savannah Williams: Yeah, so if you are wanting to be involved, if you become a member on POC and Architecture, you will get any posts that I make on the website. You'll see those opportunities. And then also they can email me directly as well. So that, I would say those are the two ways you become a member, you stay in the loop, that's the best way.
And then also there is a chat. If you're a member, you can literally start a chat and get a response that way as well.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah. Good. And I think that's important because. It can be incredibly lonely out there. And I think that was one of the blessings from the pandemic, wasn't it? Is that we all learned that we can connect online and we had these interesting things pop up. But [00:18:00] equally now I think that people are looking for less the online but in
Savannah Williams: Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: And have you done any events yet or plan to have any up and coming in the diary
Savannah Williams: Yeah. So in general we operate online, but there is, apart from the mentoring, which you have one-on-one sessions, there's event-wise, we have the pocket Architecture men mentoring exhibition, which is in London. And last year we had it in June in the summer, and it runs for one day. And this year we're gonna have it in July the eighth.
I haven't. I haven't put it out there yet, but July the eighth, pencil it in the diaries. So that will be a showing of all the students who are on the mentoring their work, and there'll be music, food, drinks, all these things. And then I am also working on another event, which will be in the winter, but I won't give any spoilers, just yeah, for that one.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: you keep, you're keeping everyone keen on their toes. You are born to be there. I give up my presenter role. [00:19:00] That is how you do it. Just a little taster. That makes complete sense. While we were talking, what I was thinking is that there were a few different. Collectives online. And I think maybe what would be cool right now is if me and you together brainstorm a few y d as of things that we know.
So when, remember Savannah, just before we went live, I was talking, we were talking about different ones. The, some of the interesting collectors I've learned of that, that people might not be aware of, that people should investigate and check out and join and get involved in is, so one of them is Muslim women in Architecture.
So I met one of the ladies from them. And it was on the tip of my tongue savanna, it's there. So that's M W I A. So very cool there. But we also talked about before we went live the poor collective. With the Dapper Sean, who set up this awesome thing as well. Now the poor collective, I do think it's worth people.
It's worth people checking [00:20:00] out. And the poor collective in essence, is set up by Sean. I think he's one of the co-founders, but my understanding is that they speak to people. From, lower economic backgrounds, get them involved in Architecture practices. I think they work when they do Architecture practices as well.
So it's along the lines of what you're doing Savannah
Savannah Williams: do a lot of like community work, which is really good as well. Like it's really
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Oh,
Savannah Williams: Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: This is it. The, the, go be honest, the Architecture industry is so big. There's not they can be just one thing, right? Because
Savannah Williams: Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: all these different awesome people like yourself doing all little bits here and there,
Savannah Williams: and branch off. And then, one day everyone connects all the dots and it's great.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: I think you're right. And here we go. So build a way. Internship, you've got things shown. Shout out to Poor Collective. I think it's awesome. I'm just gonna put that up online as well. So the poor collective I really think is cool. P O C in Architecture, of course. I think it's really cool. Otherwise you [00:21:00] wouldn't break it.
And I do think people should check it out. The one to 100 podcast. Another I a really good resource that I think if no one has seen it, is scaled blog by Sauna. It's so cool. Have
Savannah Williams: Okay, now you are teaching me something now. I dunno
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah. Have you checked out the scale blog? It's really cool. Sauna. Set it up.
It's got some really nice, awesome. Tutorial as functions. She's done some amazing like workshops as well and everyone can get involved. So by definition, my, I think it's true inclusivity and is awesome stuff and events and really cool stuff. And son is very engaged online, so shout out.
You should check it. The scale studio is the other bit I think I was thinking, and she basically got. Loads of university students and they learned stuff together. So it was really good. That's another one. Have I missed any Savannah that
Savannah Williams: Black females in Architecture is another one.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: There you go. So have we got the website for black females and Architecture?
Let's see. [00:22:00] Come on. Here we go. Let me bring it up. Amazing.
Savannah Williams: Yep.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: I haven't joined the newsletter. I need to do it
I'll just put up the link here as well. Have you been
Savannah Williams: the paradigm also do a lot of things as well. I dunno if you know about Paradigm. Paradigm, I dunno if I'm saying it correctly.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yes. I'm going to the first time. So they talk tomorrow. So the paradigm. So between that, I think that's a good rundown. I'm just looking at my emails there. To see if I can find it. So I'll bring up the link for that in a bit. But between that, those are the really cool, inclusive I guess you, they started off as little projects, but they come into really awesome communities as well.
The only other one as well that I think it's really important is Architecture, L G B T which I think is amazing, wasn't around years ago. And I think they do some really cool, amazing. Events all the time. I think they're always in Fosters and Partners building as well, [00:23:00] Savannah, so it's like
Savannah Williams: Yeah, we do have quite a big pride celebration here which is really nice. I think last year we did some pavilions, which was lovely and colorful, so yeah, we do celebrate it here,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah, exactly. And you guys have got the model shop in Fosters to
Savannah Williams: We do.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: you do. You do. And foster, no one foster's done well, he could spend a few pounds on that beautiful flow. He can do it. He can do it. But I'm quite excited at the moment. What I was gonna say to you so with Myki as well, joining, the first he's very young president and as well, lovely guy.
Savannah Williams: He's lovely. Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: And he's a black Architect himself who was actually. Gone on from Architecture into project management as well, working in multidisciplinary. Are you excited for how things are gonna shape up and stuff? In the next year, maybe a bit of a rummage or ruffle in the RIBA headquarters,
Savannah Williams: I think he, obviously you have to answer to whatever boards and other people who are within the RIBA, but I think. Him personally, I [00:24:00] think he, he wants to really make a change to the RIBA and shake it up. Not just for like diversity inclusion, but also like you said about how Architecture is with the working hours and these type of things.
So I'm hoping that the things that he's rooting for, he's able to actually make these changes. So I think it's really excited that he is coming into play and also, I think he in general, was a really nice person because even during all his campaign and everything, he was a mentor on my first year of doing the mentorship program.
So
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Oh really?
Savannah Williams: yeah. And he's on it again this year. So it's really nice that he's still active, with smaller communities and not just the picture that everyone sees. So I think it's a really positive thing. Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Fingers crossed. I hope so too. I was saying I'm tempted to run again for the R O B A council. It's a lot of work, but there's the associate seats and then That's what I was gonna say, cuz I think though Okay, the R O B A is an old institution. And like you said, maybe some things. Set [00:25:00] in their ways, but what a better chance to shake up the system than this year with Oki joining.
And I think that as well as doing these new and awesome, amazing organizations such as POC and Architecture, L G B T, we've also gotta look at change in the old institutions
Savannah Williams: Exactly. Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: It's both angles, isn't it? But I don't know. I feel like it's getting there and I feel
Savannah Williams: I feel like it is. Yeah.
I feel, yeah, I feel like there's a long way to go. I don't wanna, I don't wanna make it sound like, oh, it's all roses and fairies, but I feel like it's not. The same. Like I said, when I started Architecture in part one and that lecturer said, I see an issue with females and then males in Architecture.
And then as I've come to complete my part three and set up this organization, I've had people come to me and say, oh, I wanna help. So I think there has been a change but there's obviously more to do, definitely.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: There is more to do. There is more to do while I hear you as well. What I was gonna say [00:26:00] is, so I'll bring up the links and all this stuff again in a bit, however. I don't want it to be a two-way conversation. I've asked you a lot of questions about p o c. Okay. We've done a bit of a, a mad list between us of cool things we've seen online, me frantically looking at Chrome, but hopefully there's something out there for everyone that they can get involved with.
But do you have any questions or things that you'd like to ask me or you want or to bring up, which is important to you as well?
Savannah Williams: You have a very, large platform yourself and do you think you've seen a change in those joining your platform? I dunno if there's a way for you to really see that,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah, I
Savannah Williams: of people or,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah, the what's interesting is how the website's changed. So I get less people involved in the community forum, and that's partly due to I think the trends partly due to maybe my effort and energy on them. But I do tend to think that the YouTube, the Spotify [00:27:00] all these things which I don't really call community, I think of them as channels, but they're getting more pop.
They get more. Popular, they're getting bigger. And with that, I get to see the ages and so forth of,
And what I quite like is so that the Architecture Social demographic is from 15 to 45 tends to be
Savannah Williams: That's quite wide. That's quite a wide range.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah. Yeah. And this, the, it's quite close. I think it's something like now 55% men are 45% female.
So I'm trying to swing it that way. But I'm also maybe looking at the graphic design and stuff, cuz it's quite like hardcore black, white, yellow and all this stuff when I kinda like that. But, I'm looking to do more interior design and lighter and things, so hopefully we'll get there. But I tell you what's been good for me is that I've recently expanded my team which does the, less of the social media cool stuff, which I'm trying to do, [00:28:00] but also the recruitment.
But it is been really good to have a female they'll join me. So it's number two in the company. So it's, and it offers, it's very important because to me, you can get blinkered eyes and stuff and it's really good to have different perspectives and
Savannah Williams: I was so sorry you had a dog on there. I had a look. You had a.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: The dog.
Adds a lot in terms of, how do I say? Yeah, I love dogs to bit probably doesn't solve my problems business wise, but it's nice to have around the office and stuff, but I think that things have changed so much the, in terms of the theme of what's going on, I really didn't feel that certain things could change within the industry.
Slightly cynical sometimes. I like to think of my, really I can, I've spoken to a lot of people, so yeah, I'm used to humans and I'm being, and I'm slightly pessimistic about things, but I always try to be optimistic, so I'm an optimistic pessimist, if that makes sense.
Savannah Williams: Yeah,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: you right,
Savannah Williams: you're realistic. [00:29:00] You're a realistic,
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yeah, hope for the best, but don't be surprised if something comes in.
However, I think that my myki getting elected was amazing and I was involved in that and I wanted to get involved in it, but I didn't genuinely didn't know. That he would win, and he did. And I think that gives hope to things changing. And I love seeing stuff like p o C and Architecture popping up.
And I love seeing all these things happen. And I do think that the example I like to give the Architecture Social is while there is a business behind it, of course, which pays the bills, pays for for me to live, pays for me to expand the team and do cool stuff equally. What I'd love in the Architecture Social is for it to be a bit of a fun palace.
Cedric Price idea that people can do what they want, do crazy experiments and I think that I like to see things get disrupted. So disrupting the election I'm quite proud of, and I
Savannah Williams: think it shows the strength. Yeah. It [00:30:00] shows the strength in your platform and your organization. Definitely. The
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: It doesn't come from me, it comes from people like yourself getting involved, getting on here. And it is, community is power. Powering
Savannah Williams: yeah. It's the power of the community.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: It totally is. There's a long way to go and I'll tell you one, like quick one, I, someone invited me to an awards ceremony recently, which basically got paid to enter and all this stuff.
Awards can be. And I've gotta be careful what I say, but I wanna say a sham, so I'll say it. They're a bit of a sham sometimes, right? So I was invited to an award ceremony and then be, I sent in the application after being invited into it and it wasn't good enough and it got and then I got redacted from the awards, which was invited in and I just thinking, oh my goodness.
I think that the awards. Are a bit of a sham. So maybe maybe we do an Architecture Social awards which is people don't enter the go in and it's voted by the people and it's an
Savannah Williams: Why not?
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: pe, by the people, for [00:31:00] the people you know.
Savannah Williams: I love that.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: So you feel that you're first, I know we were celebrating people of color and Architecture, but you've also learned about Steve's crusade and wars with awards.
That's the way
Savannah Williams: And I'm in support of it. I'm here for it.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: That's what we can do, but maybe we can, we can do something clever in there. Anyways I digress. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about before we kind of wind down the live stream
Savannah Williams: I think you have touched everything. I would just encourage everyone to just be more inclusive in every realm. That's all I can say, really. I think. Yeah. I think we had a good little discussion here. I'm excited for, yeah. More things to come and everybody listening. I'd say just yeah, if you can. I can't remember a pocket Architecture to stay up to date with our events and opportunities that are coming this year.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Oh, okay. I caught something then. So it's not p o C, it's P. Do you prefer P or p
Savannah Williams: So I, I say pocket Architecture. Yeah, but I don't mind if people say poc, but P [00:32:00] Architecture is how I refer to it. Yeah.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: I got you. Parking, Architecture, p o c or park. As long as you are involved, we're happy about it. Okay, great. I'm gonna bring up the website one last time before we go. David actually leaves a good little comment. Before we go where David Chapas says, one of the issues is the use of collective labels, p o c Bam, L G P T I Q A in order to gauge diversity, it leads to broad brush tokenism.
True David, that can happen. I think. Something to keep in mind. We just challenge all this stuff, isn't it? I think as long as we're all talking about it and we're working through it together, then I think,
Savannah Williams: And even if each of these organizations that name them in a certain way could then come together, that's a nice way to collaborate.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Yes I agree also. And David, you do have a point. I would also say though, that even just getting a website or something is incredibly difficult online
Savannah Williams: [00:33:00] yes.
00;00;00_Stephen Drew: Sometimes you've got this weird thing, so like I was crazy when the Architecture Social was available, but Architect social, someone is charging a thousand pound for.
I'm not too precious about the label in that sense, but I know what you mean. David as well, in true inclusivity transcends labels and I do agree. We just all have to tackle it together. Thank you so much for sharing that, David. And then actually Savannah, thank you so much.
For being really honest for having a great unscripted conversation for dealing with me as I've just come back from my little trip to Wales. I really appreciate it and people should check out POC in Architecture, people of color and Architecture parking Architecture. I'm gonna bring up the website one more time, which is www dot p o c.
In Architecture dot com. Thank you so much, Savannah. I'm gonna end the live stream now. Give you a clap just before I do that. Thank you so much to you people in the audience. Yes, [00:34:00] I'm talking to you. Thank you for listening in. You are an absolute legend and this is what keeps the Architecture Social going and drop me a comment or a DM to let me know if you want any particular content.
That I should schedule something maybe a bit risque. I don't mind. We can do it, maybe you want to talk about something simple as well. But what I will be doing is also in the next couple of weeks, I will be doing one-to-one sessions on CCEs portfolios on LinkedIn. And if there's one thing that I do know is it's the right amount of pages in a CV, it will go on my tombstone.
That's what I, that's what people ask me all the time. So I'll be doing it live. But thank you, Savannah. I really appreciate it. I'm gonna win the livestream now. Take care everyone. Stay on the stage though. Stay on the stage.