Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
In this episode of “Lab Medicine Rounds,” Justin Kreuter, M.D., sits down with Jennifer Storlie, operations manager of Inpatient Laboratory Services at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, to talk about workforce stability and strategies for retention.
A Mayo Clinic podcast for laboratory professionals, physicians, and students, hosted by Justin Kreuter, M.D., assistant professor of laboratory medicine and pathology at Mayo Clinic, featuring educational topics and insightful takeaways to apply in your practice.
(bright music)
- This is Lab Medicine Rounds,
a curated podcast for physicians,
laboratory professionals, and students.
I'm your host, Justin Kreuter,
the Bow Tie Bandit of Blood,
a transfusion medicine
pathologist at Mayo Clinic.
Today we're rounding
with Jennifer Storlie,
operations manager of
inpatient laboratory services
at Mayo Clinic here in
Rochester, Minnesota,
to talk about a topic
that's currently on the front of mind
for many healthcare organizations.
We'll be talking about workforce stability
and strategies for retention.
Thanks for joining us today, Jennifer.
- Yeah, thank you for having me today.
- So let's kinda start off
with, why is workforce stability
such an important topic
for healthcare right now?
- Well I think, any level of turnover
creates an opportunity
for an open position.
And dependent upon your staffing levels,
you may be able to
absorb that open position
for the time being until
that can be filled.
But eventually for many, if you
have too many open positions
that can cause this
imbalance in the work unit.
So, now you've created a hardship,
and just to be able to provide
that quality of healthcare for
patients becomes jeopardized.
So, then if we look at turnover rates
and not having the staffing levels needed
to run a work unit,
there's also such a large
cost associated with it.
And so, beyond the cost,
then you're asking staff
to pick up additional hours, over-time.
There may be reduced opportunity for PTO.
Now you're creating burnout.
You've got unsatisfied staff
because of the workload that
they're having to maintain.
And it just becomes this
continuous need that we have.
And when you have a continuous turnover
or needs for hiring of new staff,
there's also this great need for training.
Bringing in new staff,
so now you're training.
And when we're training staff,
we know that we have lower productivity.
And losing staff that have
that experience level,
it's just, it's unfortunate.
They've got a certain skill
level that when it's lost,
it takes a while to be able
to get that from a new hire.
So, then we're growing those
new hires to gain the skills
and the knowledge that's needed.
And I think we're constantly adjusting
to that inefficiency as
well with the productivity.
And sometimes, they'll
say, I'm in phlebotomy,
so it'll be like, well turnaround times
for testing what's going on.
And it's like, well,
collections were taking
a little bit longer.
We've got newer staff in certain units,
so there might be additional errors
or just asking a lot of questions.
You're usually taking two people
off the floor to train that one person.
So there's just a lot with it.
If we had that stability,
we wouldn't have to
continuously be looking at hiring.
And I think hiring is not
all bad when you're bringing
on somebody new to a work unit unit.
But when you have an influx of it,
when you have that large turnover,
then it can cause some other issues.
- Wow.
I think you shot me
right through the heart
when you were talking about
the delays in lab draw
as a transfusion medicine doc.
There are certain patients that
I absolutely am looking for
kind of a post transfusion platelet count
within one hour of transfusion.
But I think as you were kind
of talking about though,
why is this important?
I had this vision of dominoes
as you were talking about
how this kind of starts
as one thing really cascades into
so many other domains that
we know are important.
Like, what is the
wellbeing of our workforce?
And I can only imagine
what it's like trying to
train a new employee and
welcome them into your culture
if the work unit is
really strapped with work.
- Yeah, I mean, so we talk about
positive onboarding experiences for staff
and we really wanna give
that to those new hires.
But you're right, when
you're just struggling to
collect the next order or
get to the next patient
to meet the needs of what you're expected,
that can be a challenge.
So we're always trying to balance
which need is greater at the moment,
and it's just a continuous balance.
It definitely is.
- Let's dive into that a little bit.
So what are, let's kind
of get our hands around
what are a couple of those
current kind of challenges?
Maybe a few with hiring and then a few
with retaining some of
these quality employees.
- Well, we're talking about healthcare.
So we've got a skill level
that's oftentimes needed.
So it's not just the skill level,
but then we've also got education.
You're not just hiring
anybody off of the street,
for the most part, to
fill healthcare positions.
So that can be a challenge when
you're out there recruiting.
And to be honest, it's a very
competitive market right now.
I think that we can all agree
that as we've gone about
our day-to-day lives,
we see it in restaurants and
retail shops and businesses.
They're all struggling
to have enough employees
to be able to just run
the day-to-day business,
just to keep operations going.
So we need to look into
how do we fit into that?
Are we competitive?
Do we have the right pay and benefits?
And are we meeting the
needs and expectations
of what potential new
hires are looking for?
And I feel like we're
seeing a shift as well
where employees are saying,
what can the company do for me
versus what can I do for the company?
So there's a little bit of different
of a shift in the culture too
of what people are asking
for in a job and a career.
And perhaps what might
have been a good benefit
a couple years ago might
not be so relevant today.
And I think it's just constantly adjusting
to what is it that people are looking for.
I think we're looking
for, we're healthcare,
so we want people who are helpful
and to fit into our rich
ties that we speak of.
But a lot of companies
are wanting good quality
candidates to come in through their doors.
So there's that competition
that we're continuously
needing to vile for.
And I think being present in social media
in the appropriate context,
what does that look like?
So that we're connecting
with the right audience
and that we're creating
pathways for job opportunities
that are attainable is gonna
be really important as well.
And as we reach out,
making sure that we're
intentional with recruiting.
Are we recruiting a diverse workforce
or are we missing an
opportunity there as well?
So as we look at even our current staff
and our new hires, I think
it's really important
that we understand, is
there a level of engagement?
Do employees feel empowered?
Do they feel like they've found
that good career fit that's
meeting their expectations?
I think there was a mindset
when you work for Mayo,
and it's like, now it's like,
but I still wanna be happy in my job.
I want it to be a good fit.
I want it to fulfill my day.
So I think there's a lot
more of looking at that
and not just that you work
for a certain company.
- I'm curious, I apologize
to interrupt you.
- [Jennifer] Yeah.
- There, I'm curious about,
as you were talking about
what a company perk, what a
perk of the job was in the past
may not be relevant now.
And I'm kind of curious
about, what are your thoughts
about how do you kind of keep your fingers
on the pulse of what really are
the current needs and
interests of the workforce?
What's the way to,
I guess to be a constantly
evolving organization?
- Well, I think that you really
need to be able to listen
to what your employees are saying.
Pick up on those key
indicators when they talk.
We do have the benefit
of having a Sirota survey
where we do get feedback,
but also just including your employees
on those day-to-day decisions
so that you can hear what
they're having to say.
They're the ones out there doing the work.
How important is it to
bring back to the work unit
and share with their managers
so that you can constantly
even evolve what's needed in the team?
Making sure you're keeping
that communication open.
And then are we truly being flexible?
We talk about this flexibility
and then having this work-life balance,
but what does that look like?
And in healthcare, we can't
just send the patients home
because it's a holiday or a weekend
or we just don't have staffing today.
We're not like a restaurant
where we can tweak our hours
and we're not gonna open at this time.
So we have to have
staffing around the clock.
And how do we meet those needs?
It's really important to listen
to what people need as they
have daycare struggle issues
and they're going to school.
And so there's all these family dynamics
and personal dynamics that
we're just, you really,
it's really important
that you're just listening
to your employees and
making sure that the best,
that the way you can to best
meet the needs of the patient
matches what the best
needs of the employees are.
And I think that's what
you just constantly.
You can't be like, well
this is set in stone,
this is gonna be 2023's plan.
It's continuous involving.
- And I imagine that is this,
I'm kind of curious for
how does this look like
so our audience can kind
of get a little bit more
of what your experience has been.
Is this something that,
this constant listening
to employees, is this something that is
a regular topic of discussion
with management meetings about
what we are hearing from our employees?
Or is this something that's more informal
that you're meeting with some of the
leadership for your group,
reflecting on what you are hearing
from employees in meetings?
What does that look like?
- I think it's a
combination because really,
you're gonna know if
something's not going well
because there's gonna
be that communication.
You're just gonna hear that
chatter in the work unit.
But I think a lot of
work units have adapted
to also having huddles.
And so those are great
opportunities to just
quick spend a few minutes
connecting with the team.
What are some quality
issues, safety issues?
What's not going well in the work unit?
What is going well in the work unit?
And when you're having those huddles,
it also allows you an opportunity then
to really connect
individually with those staff
and be able to hear
what those concerns are.
It's also like,
I've always found it really beneficial too
to just throw out an email and say
you know what, I'm struggling with this.
Or I see a lot of communication
through Teams chat
that looks kind of negative.
What could we do different?
What are some suggestions?
And then getting a team
wrapped around that
so that you don't continue
to hear those issues,
but that you grow and
you enhance that process.
And I think when you bring in staff
and you allow them the
power to be part of that,
it shows that you're valuing
what they do every day.
It shows that you're valuing their opinion
and their thoughts and that
you're willing to create
a work unit that is successful
for them to come to every day.
Even if it is a little
bit short with staffing.
I think they're gonna be
a little bit more open
to putting in that extra effort
if you can start to meet
some of their needs as well.
- Wow, this really resonates with me
and I'm curious about
as doing these huddles
and why this resonates with me
is I love this kind of
engagement with the work unit.
Is that oftentimes people
may make suggestions
that are great and brilliant
but are gonna take a little
bit of time to work on.
Maybe it's not even fully in
our control of our work unit.
And we can explore that.
How do you handle and manage
that in a positive way
when employees are making
these great suggestions,
but like you said, you
just can't on a dime
change the work hours in many cases?
- Yeah, so there's some
things where I think
we're not able to be as flexible with.
We know we need to have X amount of staff
on the overnight to care for the patients.
We can't really change that
because that's the business
need of the hospital.
But things that we can do is
when an enhancement comes forward.
And you're right, sometimes
things do take a little bit
of time, sometimes they
take longer than what you
would like to imagine.
But for instance, a staff member
brought forward the concern
about line draws not being
able to be identified
on the patient list.
So I'll put through an
epic change request,
and then it's getting
that employee involved.
So I had that person be
involved on the meetings.
Sharing forward.
What would you like to see
this workload look like?
And then sharing it with the team,
hey, this suggestion was brought forward.
I'm sure others have experienced
that this would be a benefit.
- So you're really getting them integrated
with the solution.
So that person, that's
what I'm hearing right,
is they're really in the thick of it.
- [Jennifer] Definitely.
- So they understand why
something is taking some time
and maybe even building
some leadership skills
in the process.
- It's a great opportunity for that.
There's no reason why they can't be part
of an epic change request meeting.
Have them sit in with, we
use Soft for our collections,
have them sit in on those teams.
So that they can understand
what is the length in
between the meetings?
How long does it take to get something?
But they also start to
understand the process of it.
And that way, they don't feel
like things are just happening to them
but they can actually be part
of that process and that change agent.
And I think that's really big,
and you don't have to have
too many people involved
where the communication
starts to share and spread.
So you have one or two people involved
and they're sharing it
with their close coworkers,
it's shared in meetings
and education events
through huddles.
And now everybody's
aware of what's going on.
What's the process, why
is it taking a long time?
So I think think there are
really those quick just do its,
and anytime you can
implement a just do it,
that's fantastic.
But sometimes for those longer projects,
I think just getting the staff involved,
allowing them to be part
of the communication.
I'll forward an email to them and say,
hey what do you think about this?
Just making sure they're engaged
so that they know, oh, she
didn't forget about this.
This isn't on the back burner.
This is just what this process looks like
is really important.
And I think you're right, you
grow those management skills
and you allow them to
be part of the process.
And they're no longer just
an employee that comes in,
clocks in, does their job, and leaves.
They're now an employee who's helping
to make the work unit a better place.
- So I wanna, I think you've probably,
we've started to dip
into some kind of these
top recruitment strategies
to kinda increase
the stability of our workforce.
But I want to kind of call some attention
and highlight to that.
So I was wondering if you could kind of
elaborate a little bit
on some of your kind of
top recruitment strategies.
- Yeah, there is such
a growth that I've seen
and experienced this past
year with recruitment efforts,
and it seems like no suggestion or path
really is off the table for discussion
as long as it does have the
potential to reach people.
So there's a lot of effort
going into many strategies,
and I'm sure there's even more happening
across the organization.
But some of the recruitment
initiatives that are in place
that I'm particularly close with working
is we're doing advertising
through local newspapers, billboards.
There was one of the
billboards by the fairgrounds,
when we had this for
phlebotomy, there was a picture
of a couple of my old
employees that made sure,
hey, look you're on a billboard.
Let's get some excitement around this
so that they would make sure
to share it with people.
And then social media,
making sure that we're
utilizing those tools.
'Cause I think that's
really important right now.
We're also using Indeed hiring events.
I have an all day Indeed event tomorrow
that I'll be sitting at
doing for interviews.
We're also doing handshake campaigns,
advertising through high schools,
making sure that we're connecting
with those career
counselors so that they know
what kind of job opportunities
are out there for students.
Whether it is a degree needed
or if it's just a training,
that students have the
different opportunities
and are aware of that.
We're also working with
recruiting agencies
such as Velocity and Recruit Talent Inc.
All with the goal so that we
can share what our needs are
and have this support network around us.
Other opportunities that
have been really great,
as we know that Mayo's
a larger institution,
so we're sharing staff.
We go to different departments,
we get different jobs,
but one of the things that you can do
since you have that
skillset set is keep them
on as a supplemental or job two employee.
So that when they're able to,
if they're looking into
picking up additional hours,
they can come back into your work unit
and maintain that skill and
help fill in some of those gaps.
So that's been really great too.
- Well, and so you're doing several,
and maybe that's and understatement
to say several different strategies.
- Yes.
- How do you assess that?
Because I imagine that that's kind of
a valuable information to know.
Which of these strategies
are more effective?
And maybe even it gets
more specific than that,
more effective in recruiting some of the
top employees that you see
engaged in the work unit.
So how do you assess
what do you wanna continue going forward?
What's not really a good investment
of your time and resources?
- Yeah, so we're fortunate
enough to have HR recruiters
that partner with us
and they kind of help us
manage some of that data.
So if we do an initiative
and we don't have any activity out of it,
it's probably one that
we might put to the side.
And the thing about a
lot of these initiatives
is they might, they're
gonna work differently
for different areas.
So maybe some collections for phlebotomy
is gonna have one path
that's gonna work better
and testing labs are gonna
have a different outcome.
So I think you also need to know who is it
that you're recruiting
for and separate that.
So we may not be as
successful in one area,
but a testing lab might be
very successful in that.
So it is watching to see
how many candidates are
we getting out of there?
How much activity, how much interest?
And then continuing to work,
because you're right, it really is a lot.
I am by no means a subject matter expert,
but this last year, there has
just been so many different
recruiting opportunities
I've been part of.
And in the past, I've always
been part of recruiting,
but I did it more to connect with people
and just share my love
for what I do for my job.
So it was a way for me to connect,
share what I do, say,
here's another career path.
But now it's really going out there
and it's being that driving force
and it's really being
specific about what we need.
What are we looking for?
And like you said,
just making sure we're
using it the correct way.
- Wow.
I bet this conversation for listeners
has really sparked some
ideas 'cause there's,
like you're saying, there's
a lot of context specificity
for what works, what
might be getting done.
And so can you speak to some potential
educational opportunities
where listeners can learn more about this?
- Sure.
There's a number of career opportunities
that are being discussed,
not only with how do
we bring in top talent,
but how do we grow our current staff
and some educational
pathways that'll continue to
feed the needs of the organization.
'Cause we need to do both.
But one way is bringing in people
that have maybe the soft skill,
and then doing some
onsite specific training
and creating those pathways
where they can grow
from one career field to the next.
So for example, phlebotomy,
we have two programs that we teach,
that we teach you the skill.
And one is through the Mayo
School of Health Science
and the other is the
Phlebotomy Assistant program,
which they both offer
specific training pathways
to learn that phlebotomy skillset.
But it's just really utilizing it
for which one is right for you.
And then being able to look at
how do we balance the needs?
So as our needs for phlebotomists grow,
we're able to adjust the number
of cohorts that we offer in a year
or the number of students
that we offer in a class.
And both programs have been
successful this past year
with meeting those needs.
The Phlebotomy Assistant program
is also offering training
on all three shifts since
that is a specific need.
So that started for 2023.
It's just to how do we
grow to meet the needs
of hires coming in?
Maybe a day shift training
program doesn't work.
So now we're offering the
evening and overnight,
and hopefully we'll be
able to fill those hires
into those positions as well.
So development and education,
I think it's only going to
continue to grow and enhance
as we better understand the need
collaboratively in the healthcare field.
- Wow.
And I think that's another topic
we'll have to invite you back for.
I'm the medical director
for a medical laboratory science program,
and yeah there's a huge need,
and how to expand that
is a complex question.
(laughing)
So thank you so much.
We've been rounding with
Jennifer Storlie today.
Thanks for taking the time to
talk about workforce stability
and really kind of elaborate
on some of those strategies for
retention for our workforce.
- Yeah, thank you for having me.
- If you'd like to hear
more about this topic,
Jennifer will be presenting
at the 2023 Phlebotomy
Conference in April.
So please visit
mayocliniclabs.com/phlebotomy2023
for more information.
And all of our listeners,
thank you for joining us today.
We invite you to share your thoughts
and suggestions via email.
Please direct any suggestions
to mcleducation@mayo.edu
and reference this podcast.
If you've enjoyed Lab
Medicine Rounds podcast,
please subscribe.
And until our next rounds together,
we encourage you to continue
to connect lab medicine
and the clinical practice
through insightful conversations.
(bright music)