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The advice show for creators that tells it like it is. Host Stephanie Woodin takes calls from web creators grappling with the big questions: burnout, branding, revenue, and keeping up with AI and SEO changes. Each episode, an expert guest or fellow creator joins Stephanie to answer your questions with research-backed, practical advice you can put to work in your own business.
Brought to you by Raptive, the full-service creator media company that empowers creators to turn their passions into thriving, profitable brands.
Do you have a question? Record yourself on video or audio, or write it up and email it to ctrlaltask@raptive.com. Anonymous questions are welcome!
Stephanie Woodin:
Over the past few years, Substack has gone from a platform to email your followers to a full-fledged social media site with video, podcasts, and a way to build a true community. It's a platform that's getting a lot of eyeballs. As of 2025, 20 million people are subscribed to at least one Substack. So if you're a creator, you're probably wondering, should I start a Substack? What does it take to really grow an audience there? And how does it fit into my content ecosystem? To answer these questions and more, we're bringing in one of my favorite writers. She's a bestselling author, host of the podcast, Under the Influence, and the creator of the Substack Over The Influence. I'm thrilled to welcome Jo Piazza.
Hi, Jo. Thanks so much for joining Ctrl Alt Ask.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, thanks so much for having me.
Stephanie Woodin:
This is a really fun topic that I've been wanting to talk about for a while, which is mainly Substack, but also just kind of how creators can expand their audience reach, expand their footprint from a brand perspective. And I think you are such a good person to have on to talk about this. I'm going to fan girl for just a minute because I've loved Everyone Is Lying to You, and it's such a fun read. So just a PSA to everybody, you should read it, especially if you're in the creator influencer space. It really spoke to me because this is what we do every day at Raptive and talk to creators. And it's like a fun, very fictional, but great spin on that world. So just want to fangirl. I've been loving all of your content too on Substack.
Jo Piazza:
Thank you. I love hearing that. I never get sick of it. I never get sick of someone telling me that they love my books, so thank you.
Stephanie Woodin:
As you shouldn't. We need a little more embracing of people giving us attention and love. So I think it's great.
Jo Piazza:
Yes, yes. You just totally sparked all the joy for me. Thank you.
Stephanie Woodin:
Okay, good. Well, and your Substack's great. It's called Over the Influence, and it touches a lot of things too that I hold dear, which is motherhood, working motherhood. All of the things that you talk about, I think speak to a lot of our creators too. But today we're really focusing on Substack, and how you can talk to being a Substack creator, but also being an author, a marketer, a podcaster, and all of the different spaces you occupy, much like our creator audience. And we're going to really delve into what creators can do. Our question today is from Steve Snyder who runs a website called Club Trader Joe's. So without further ado, let's hear from Steve and then we'll get into it all.
Steve Snyder:
Hi, my name is Steve Snyder. I'm the owner of Club Trader Joe's. It's one of the preeminent Trader Joe's review websites out there. I started it about 16 years ago as a passion project to try to keep track of all the Trader Joe's products that are constantly being released. And I was having a hard time when my kids were little and I was trying to understand this new blogging technology back in about 2008, and it blossomed out of that. And I do a variety of social media. My main ones are Facebook and Pinterest, but I do have a presence on Instagram, Threads, and Bluesky.
And then of course, one of the big drivers of my stuff is all from Substack. I started on Substack about three years ago when, I don't know if you remember that first helpful, helpful content update hit. And my traffic went down 80%. And I couldn't figure out why. It had been going up and up and up like this for like 13 years.
So I was just thrashing around trying to figure out what to do. And somebody mentioned that they were having some luck on Substack, and I tried to drive subscriptions and I spent like three months pushing it, pushing it, pushing it. And I got two people to sign up for a monthly subscription. I was like, this isn't going to work. So I actually put it on the back shelf. And then another year went by and I said I need to take another run at this Substack thing.
And the thing I was most interested in is doing email generation. So I moved all my email subscribers into Substack. So I've grown into almost 16,000 email list members now on Substack. And I only use it for that. I don't have any paid membership. I don't try to push that. I just use it for an email platform. So that drives a ton of traffic to my website when I send out emails. So my question is, how do I organically grow my Substack membership list and more engagement on the Substack platform? I would like a different way to have more revenue outside of the traditional ad model.
Stephanie Woodin:
Okay. So I feel like Steve's kind of asking two questions. One is like, how do we use Substack as a tool to grow the audience? And then he asks about the revenue generation side of it. But I'd love to start with you, Jo, about your universe and Substack. And can you kind of run us through what platforms you are on? I know Steve mentioned a lot of social media platforms. But how do you reach your various audiences right now? And we'll start there and then get into Substack.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah. I mean, and I think it's always helpful to start out with your why. Why are you on these platforms to begin with? And so for me, my main business is my books. I'm an author, I publish a book a year. I want ways to, first, connect with my audience, but then also to make sure they know about my books, to know about release dates and events and things like that. And then secondarily, I've been a podcaster for about 10 years now. And so, again, that is just making sure people know about new episodes and growing the audience there.
And then I use Substack and Instagram kind of as ways to remind people that those platforms are there. I mean, I use them as marketing tools. I don't use them for fun, which much to the chagrin of my best friend who's like, "You didn't comment on my Instagram post." And I'm like, "I don't look at Instagram like that. I'm not scrolling."
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. You're not a voyeur. You're actually actively posting for a purpose.
Jo Piazza:
I'm actively posting for a purpose. And so Substack seemed like a really good way to get to people where they were because people are in their inbox. And I do think that there's a little bit of content overload these days. But just being able to show up in people's inboxes really grabbed their attention when I first got on about three years ago.
Stephanie Woodin:
I was going to ask when you started.
Jo Piazza:
Pretty early, pretty early. And it's because with my book, Sicilian Inheritance, I had this kind of aha moment where no one is going to market my book as well as I can market my book. And also the fact is we get marketed other things, like Lululemon pants and Quince sweaters through our inboxes every day. Why not do that with my content, with my books, things that people really want to see? So I became very aggressive about that.
Stephanie Woodin:
Smart.
Jo Piazza:
And about taking control of the email marketing version for my books, for Sicilian Inheritance. And that came out two summers ago. We've sold about 150,000 copies of that book. And so the strategy has really worked. And I've made it work in tandem also with the podcast. So there will be an episode of the podcast, and then there's a transcript on the Substack oftentimes, and added value and behind the scenes stuff on the Substack. So I'm not just creating new things out of whole cloth all the time, although I do dash off new essays and stuff on there. I look at all of it as an ecosystem that feeds each other.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. It's like the different channels have to talk to each other. I've noticed with creators, and I think that you bring up a really good example, is there's an umbrella of a voice and a POV and a brand of Jo Piazza as the author, podcaster, Substack creator, personality. But each platform seems to kind of have a variation of that all branching back up into that bigger tree.
Jo Piazza:
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And sometimes it's different audiences. Sometimes it's the same audience just in a different mood. Not everyone wants a video all the time. Not everyone wants a podcast all the time. Sometimes you want to read, sometimes you don't want to read. And so for me, we live in a creator economy where attention span is the biggest commodity. And so reaching people with what they want at that moment on different types of platforms is really what I'm trying to do with both Substack, Instagram, the podcast, and then with the books.
Stephanie Woodin:
I think that's a really smart way to think about it. Since you were more early adopter of Substack, obviously it's evolved a little bit. Can you talk through the model? Do you have to pay to be on the platform? Can you just throw up a Substack, have just free subscriptions, and that's it? Can you walk me through that a little?
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a lot of people who still don't understand Substack. In the creator world, we often talk about it as if everyone just knows what it is. And when I do book events, I'm very much reminded that people are like, "What is a Substack? What is that?"
Stephanie Woodin:
Wait, it's an email, right? It's like email.
Jo Piazza:
It's like email. And I'm like, "It's like email." So no, you don't have to pay for it. It is a platform. I want people to think about it like any other platform. I compare it to Blogger in the old days where it's something that is going to help you set up your content on both a website and then also in an email newsletter in a really seamless and easy way. It is. It's very easy to be honest. And so when you write a post, and we could call it a blog post, it is a blog post, it goes up on your Substack website the same way it would have on an old school website, something as simple as Blogger, or for me, I was creating digital magazines for a long time. It looks the same as something that goes up on Cup of Joe or something, right?
Stephanie Woodin:
Right, right.
Jo Piazza:
But then it also emails it out as a newsletter, but as an email that just goes into people's inboxes. And all of this is free. But then you have the option for people to pay for these subscriptions. So all of your content can be free. A lot of creators make almost all of their content free. I make the majority of mine free, to be honest. And I don't paywall a ton. But people subscribe just to support the content, which I think is great because we've really lived in an economy for the past 20 years that's made it seem like content should be free, that it's kind of a public good. And so encouraging people to pay for the things they love, I think is very helpful for artists and creators. But then I do put some premium content, a lot more personal content behind the paywall. And then subscribers will pay a monthly fee, and Substack takes a percentage of that. So that is how Substack makes revenue. They're about to introduce an ad model, which will be really interesting to watch.
Stephanie Woodin:
I saw that news. Yeah. How do you decide, this is getting granular, but that's our audience kind of wanting to know the nuts and bolts, how do you decide how much to charge, or do you kind of follow the trend?
Jo Piazza:
You kind of follow the trend and Substack has tiers. So it's like 8.99, 10.99, 5.99, and then you can run discounts and you can run sales. And in the beginning, I also think it's very helpful, and I like to tell people this, because I've worked with other creators to create their Substack, to build their brands on Substack. It's really helpful if you have a large audience on another platform.
So I worked with someone who had about 300,000 followers on Instagram, and they were able to grow their Substack audience to 70,000 followers by bringing the Instagram followers over to Substack for a deeper dive. I do know that a lot of creators in the early influencing blogging days who then got pushed over to Instagram are really happy with Substack now. Because you do get more of that long form writing. I talk about this with the creator, Grace Atwood, a lot.
Stephanie Woodin:
Oh yeah, The Stripe.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, the Stripe. I mean, Grace is such an OG, incredible influencer.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yes.
Jo Piazza:
I take all of her recommendations to heart. She's amazing.
Stephanie Woodin:
She is.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, she can do a lot more long form content, the kind of stuff that she was originally blogging, the kind of stuff that she's still putting on her blog, but getting right into people's inboxes, and it's different than what you'll see on her Instagram. So I think a lot of people are really embracing that. And it does give a value add for your audience.
And one of the creators I've worked with is a political creator, and they can do one minute snippets on Reels, but then they can write 1,000 words on something and give you a real deeper dive into that. But I brought it up because a lot of people go on Substack, and be like, I don't have an audience. And I'm like, well, people, when they have a big audience on other platforms, it is much, much, much easier for them to bring that audience with them over to Substack, not the whole audience, but a percentage of it.
And so I think that this answers one of the questions, you have to promote your Substack on your other platforms if you want to bring people over. You have to actively say, "For more, come here. For an extra something, come here." And if you're looking to turn that into a revenue stream, then that's something you're offering on Substack has to really be a value add.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah, that's a great point, I think, and going even into what Steve was talking about, which is like, how do I grow my audience organically? And it feels like every creator that I follow that has a Substack is constantly, and not to a degree where it's annoying, they're saying, "This is something that you need to turn to if you want a little more in depth of my content." Have you seen that be the best way to increase your followers on Substack?
Jo Piazza:
100%. I mean, it's that, it's bringing your audience over from other places and then giving them extra value. Honestly, growth within Substack itself is really hard, especially because I think the landscape has gotten very crowded. I mean, now we have celebrities all over Substack. We have journalists from other platforms who have left those platforms, and are now reporting and creating entire media companies on Substack. I think there is some content fatigue there. So growing within the system is really hard.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. Let's talk about that. I think Steve, he has a good sizable following. I'm curious, how do you get discovered, or how have you found when you started out, because you have in the tens of thousands of followers, which is a lot, how do you really go about that? When I go into Substack, I have the app on my phone, I also have it on desktop, I am served a lot. If you like this, you might like this. Is that one way, but what are some other ways?
Jo Piazza:
That's one way. And it's kind of like the old school blogging ecosystem as well. It's recommendations from other Substacks. Those really, really help. And then Substack does serve you other people's recommendations. Being really active on Threads, which is their internal social media, so making sure you're posting all of your content on there, and that you're active in following other people on there and tagging them and collaborating within the community can help you grow on there.
Stephanie Woodin:
I saw that you're very active in talking to your community. And it's like a DM format, which I thought was genius in the way that you can directly have basically an internal forum, like you said, old school style, but in real time with followers.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so some Substacks are really incredible at building community around that, and Helen Petersen's Culture Study where she's moved off Substack onto Patreon, but her Threads are really vibrant. Mine, I opened up a reading thread like, "What are you reading right now? And here's what I'm reading and let's have a discussion in this thread about that."
I did another one that's been really fun, which I need to jump into on kind of accountability for being on your phone less, which has been really interesting. And I think that Steve could really do this too because he's talking about Trader Joe's products, and people want to talk about those with each other and people want to talk about recipes with each other. And so using Substack as a place to build community where people can say, "Hey, I tried this thing. I didn't like it. Hey, this is this recipe I did with these new crazy cashews."
Stephanie Woodin:
The peppermint Joe-Joe's are fire.
Jo Piazza:
The peppermint Joe-Joe's are such fire. And it's usually for those threads and those forums, it's usually for paid subscribers only. So that's a really good way to boost the paid base is you get access to this community.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah, that's a good point. I didn't realize that. I'm curious too, a lot of our creators, all of our creators at Raptive, but creators listening to this also have websites. That is their bread and butter. But if they have an email list going right now, I think Steve said he migrated his to Substack. Does it work in reverse? Once you're on Substack, does Substack own that audience and that community, or do you still take that with you if you want?
Jo Piazza:
You still take that with you if you want. And that's the thing.
Stephanie Woodin:
That's really good to know.
Jo Piazza:
And this is why a lot of creators have really enjoyed getting off of Instagram and moving to Substack because you do have a better control over your audience. I download my email list on a very, very regular basis to make sure that I have those emails.
Stephanie Woodin:
That's great.
Jo Piazza:
In case I were to ever move over to another platform. Because at this point, I've been through so many iterations of media that I'm kind of platform agnostic. I'm like I don't know if you're going to be around tomorrow. Cool. And being able-
Stephanie Woodin:
I mean, the TikTok ban was like, the ups and downs of that alone, I think scared a lot of people. And we talk a lot about that here of obviously owning your audience is super important to protect your bottom line and your revenue streams.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it really matters. It gets scared a lot of creators. Every time the algorithm changes on Instagram, it tanks people's revenues. And it's crazy. So yeah, you can take it with you, you can download it. I know a lot of people like Steve that have moved their entire email list over to Substack really just because it's easy. And a lot of brands have done that too, which again is also kind of contributing to some content fatigue generally.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. I think there's a fine line of, and I've talked to creators about this in the Raptive Network of they're worried as creators like, is this fatigue? Am I overkill with my audience? How do you suggest, maybe it's Steve or a creator in another space who has a product to sell, who has something to not feel like they're fatiguing their audience, to not feel like they're overly selling to their audience across these platforms? What's kind of your cadence or your POV on that?
Jo Piazza:
I talk about my books constantly. I talk about selling my books. I'm unabashed about it. And I kind of joke about it too. I'm like, "I'm a marketing monster. I'm so sorry I have to do this." They actually don't seem to mind that. And I try to remind people of that because, again, you might think you're doing a lot, but people are really only seeing about 10% of your content. So they're not being served it as much. And also we're being marketed to in every aspect of our lives these days that we're so used to it.
The content fatigue is less being marketed to in that there's just too much from everyone and from every angle. There's too many Substacks to read. There's too many Instagrams to scroll. But I don't think that people should feel ashamed about promoting their things and promoting their books and using these platforms to do it. Because like I said, we're being sold crap from every corner of the internet in every which possible way. Why not give your audience something that they'll genuinely love? They're following you for a reason.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yep. Do you feel like there's anything Substack is not as good for and where other platforms might be better?
Jo Piazza:
Yeah. I mean, visually, clearly Instagram is just better for a quick hit and quick information. Instagram works in a different way. I think Substack is better for the deeper, longer dives. For people who want to sit down and read a little bit more. And because it's being delivered right in your inbox, you don't have to remember to click over to a website all the time. I mean, Instagram, it's a great place to catch people when they're in their downtime, like mid-scroll. And I actually find now the best time to catch people on Instagram is like right before bed. Because sadly so many of us are scrolling right before bed that I get my best conversion rates when I do something at bedtime.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. I mean, last night, of course, I can't even keep my eyes open until 9:00 these days. But the last thing I do is look through Instagram because it's just like a-
Jo Piazza:
I know.
Stephanie Woodin:
... weird decompression-
Jo Piazza:
It's terrible.
Stephanie Woodin:
... thing. It's terrible. I know you have three kids. I have three kids, so I'm in it with you. I'm just like, I'm tired, but this is-
Jo Piazza:
I'm tired.
Stephanie Woodin:
... like my way.
Jo Piazza:
Why am I doing this? I mean, I'm doing it, so it doesn't matter.
Stephanie Woodin:
Well, let's talk really quick about the revenue part of it. We touched on this, but how do you think about it as a revenue stream? Obviously, you've got a lot. You've got your podcasts, you've got your books. You are a bestselling author. When you think about Substack on the revenue side, we talked about the tiers of charging and they take a cut. Do you think about building it more for yourself as a revenue stream? Where does it sit with you right now? And maybe how should Steve think about that?
Jo Piazza:
Yeah. I mean, for me, and people do this all across the board, for some people, they have turned it into a major media company. And I've worked with creators who have done that before, who are making hundreds of thousands of dollars through paid subscribers. For me, because my main part of my business is books, I spend the majority of my time working on books.
But I do want the Substack to pay for the time I'm investing in the Substack. And so I have about 2,000 paid followers out of about 13,000. And so that's a decent revenue stream that I feel like I'm getting my investment in time that I'm putting on the platform back. That I'm being paid for what I put into it. But I do really think of it more as an extension of my other products and as a marketing tool.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. That's a great way for our creators to think about it too. It sounds like to me, there's a couple of different routes that creators can think about Substack. One is making sure you're engaging there with the audience that's choosing to follow you there. Two is having a little more promotion of Substack across your other platforms to really get them there. Is there anything else that Steve and other creators can do as your final piece of advice when thinking about either implementing a Substack or growing the one they have?
Jo Piazza:
Yeah. I mean, for me, it's really at, one, making it a quality product, and also two, doing it if it's something that you want to do. So I've had a lot of author friends who say to me, "Oh, I guess I have to make a Substack." I'm like, "Do you want to make a Substack?" And they're like, "No." And I'm like, "Then you probably shouldn't." I mean, it is a platform also that truly works for me because I was a newspaper reporter for a long time. And so I can sit down and write. And great, it's done, it's ready to go, it's good. But I have that skill and I like it. So Substack really does work for me. But I have so many friends who are like, "Oh, I'm just miserable doing this." And I'm like, "Your audience is going to know that. So maybe Substack isn't the right platform for you."
Stephanie Woodin:
And they're probably not going to post as much. I could see it being like, okay, it's hot for a second. You feel like you have to do this. And then you start to wane on wanting to post. It feels like a chore. And then it kind of dies right there, I imagine.
Jo Piazza:
And then it dies and it is a chore, right? I mean, I think for Steve, it's really a natural part of his ecosystem. That I think he can deliver an excellent value add and create a community that could be a viable revenue stream given what he does. But it's not for everyone. And think about if it's something that you enjoy.
I think about that with platforms all the time. I think that I should be on TikTok. I have this thought once a week. I'm like, you should sell books on TikTok. You'd be much better off if you... But I don't like it and I'm not good at it. And so I just kind of let that go because I'm like, it's not my wheelhouse and I don't think that it will be successful if I'm not all in on it.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. I think that's fair. You have to know your limits.
Jo Piazza:
Yes. And you have to know your limits, and you have to know how much you can put out there, and what is worth it to you in building your business.
Stephanie Woodin:
Yeah. And maybe there's a time and a place for TikTok, and same with Substack. People may take away that this is something they want to try in 2026, or they put it on the back burner because it's not speaking to them. But like you said, I think you do a really good job of posting frequently. Your posts and your content on Substack are diverse across all of the content buckets you hit. So I think it is of interest to people who want to dive deeper. And it seems like something that you really love too and that comes through.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah, exactly.
Stephanie Woodin:
I think that's a great place to end it. And we are just so appreciative of your insights, Jo, as somebody who's been a Substack OG, and obviously in this creator economy through and through. So thank you so much for joining.
Jo Piazza:
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This was so much fun.
Stephanie Woodin:
Everyone, check out Everyone's Lying to You, but also you have another book coming out next year called The Parisian Heist.
Jo Piazza:
I do. I do. Yeah.
Stephanie Woodin:
And everyone should check that out and your Substack, which is Over the Influence.
Jo Piazza:
All the things.
Stephanie Woodin:
All the things. We'll be following and reading. Thanks again.
Jo Piazza:
Thank you so much.
Stephanie Woodin:
Thank you, Steve, for bringing us this terrific topic and to Jo for your amazing insights. That's it for this week. But if you're a creator with a question, send it our way. Please email us at ctrlaltask@raptive.com and tell us your story.