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You’re tired.
Not just physically; though yeah, that too.
You’re tired in your bones. In your soul.
Trying to be a steady husband, an intentional dad, a man of God… but deep down, you feel like you’re falling short. Like you’re carrying more than you know how to hold.
Dad Tired is a podcast for men who are ready to stop pretending and start healing.
Not with self-help tips or religious platitudes, but by anchoring their lives in something (and Someone) stronger.
Hosted by Jerrad Lopes, a husband, dad of four, and fellow struggler, this show is a weekly invitation to find rest for your soul, clarity for your calling, and the courage to lead your family well.
Through honest stories, biblical truth, and deep conversations you’ll be reminded:
You’re not alone. You’re not too far gone. And the man you want to be is only found in Jesus.
This isn’t about trying harder.
It’s about coming home.
Hey guys. Welcome back to the Dad Tire Podcast. If you're watching on YouTube or Spotify, you can see I have a puppy in my lap. Um, for some reason I thought four kids wasn't crazy enough, so I decided to add to the chaos. I'm not that smart. Um, really fun conversation today with Matthew West. Obviously super talented, has won many awards, but just wanted to get to know him on another level outside of the music.
Um, I think you're gonna really enjoy our conversation. We hit a lot of topics on this conversation that I think, um, you're gonna find fascinating. Before we jump into that, I do wanna thank my friends over at Samaritan's Purse for sponsoring today's episode, Samaritan's Purse. I've been a big fan of theirs for a long time.
They're part of, um, I. Or they have a project called Operation Christmas Child. I have done Operation Christmas Child for many, many years. Even before I was married, I was packing shoe boxes at churches, um, even back all the way back in California. And, um, always been a big fan of their ministry. You've probably heard of this, if you've been around the church world for a while, you've probably heard about their, their project operation Christmas Child, where you pack these shoe boxes, either as a family or a community group.
Or a church and then they get sent off to the world. Um, but Leland and I actually had an opportunity to join Samaritan's Purse, uh, operation Christmas child in Grenada, one of the islands, and to see exactly how these boxes get delivered and then like what happens. And it was a whole, like, it was legitimately one of the top five, um, best experiences of my life.
And I'm not exaggerating when I say that I could, I already believed in this ministry and I now. Um, support them like a million times, even more. Um, just being able to see specifically what they're doing with these kids and the way that they're using these shoe boxes as a method for discipleship, proclaiming the gospel.
It is incredible. It is not. One of the things that they said that stuck out to me on the trip is we do not want to be, and we are not a Santa Claus ministry. We're not just trying to deliver some gifts to some kids in need. Um, we are preaching the gospel. That is our number one goal. We are making disciples.
That's our number one goal. And these shoe boxes are a very small, very important, but very small piece of a larger mission that they're trying to accomplish of preaching the gospel, making disciples all over the world. And they are doing an incredible job at that. These kids go through discipleship programs.
They hear the gospel. They'll receive a shoebox, um, only after they've heard the gospel. And then many of these kids end up giving their life to Christ. They've never heard the story of Jesus. They give their life to Christ and then they're invited to hear the gospel again, to be, to go through an actual, like, step-by-step discipleship process with a mentor.
And then their parents are invited. Once they complete that discipleship class, their parents are invited, the parents hear the gospel. I mean, it's just the ministry. True. I can't speak highly enough. You can see like, I'm getting excited about it. 'cause I, I genuinely, like when I was there watching. I could not believe what I was seeing and how well this organization does at preaching the gospel, getting kids into actual intentional discipleship relationships and, uh, watching them grow in their faith.
And then these kids end up going on to share the gospel with their family, with their neighbors. It's just really, really cool. My dog is eating the court. I don't know why I gotta talk. Uh, anyway. Packing, uh, the, the time to pack these shoe boxes. They do these in November. You gotta make sure they're packed so they can get shipped out into the world.
I think, let me see here. They want to do 12 million boxes this year, which is incredible. I'm confident they'll hit that goal, but I want the dad, tiger guys to be part of that. So, uh. Go to Samaritan's Purse slash occ. That's Operation Christmas, child samaritan's purse.org/occ. And then you can learn how to pack a shoebox, either in person, super cool idea to do with your family or with your church or small group or men's group or whatever.
Um, or you can pack a box online and, um, and they'll help you figure out what to put in there so that they can get shipped all over the world. Anyway, love what they're doing. Make sure you support them as, uh, the dad tired, community Samaritans. purse.org/occ. That being said, let's dive into today's episode.
I don't know who should start this interview because it's like, you know. It's two podcasts becoming one. This is a first for me, like, uh, I'm talking with a podcast. This is gonna be an episode of my podcast, but it's also gonna be an episode of Jared Loeb's podcast, the Dad Tired podcast. So I'll welcome you to my show and then you welcome me to your show.
How's that sound?
Yeah, dude, well, I'm, I'm super honored to be hanging out with you and doing your show, but I just was like, man, if we're gonna be sitting here talking, especially, 'cause schedules are so crazy, you know, I'm like, if we're gonna find the time to talk. I definitely want to get you in front of the dad's hired guys too.
So
man, well, I'm a fan of what you do. You and I got to meet backstage at, I think it was one of my shows with, uh. Because you were buddies with Micah Tyler. Micah Tyler. That's what it was. Yeah. So he introduced us and then I called you, uh, on a couple occasions, a couple of occasions talking about just getting podcast wisdom.
'cause you're a guy. Can we start by talking about your podcast and, and the origins of it and the inspiration for it and. And what you're up to. Yeah. Just for people who listen to my podcast and aren't familiar with yours yet, I'd love for them to just kind of right off the bat. Know who you are and the why of the Dad Tired podcast, which I love the name by the way.
Yeah, dude. Well, thank you. Well, first I'm super stoked that you did not give up on your podcast and that's still going strong. 'cause I think what you're doing is really cool. Thank you. Um, so I was in ministry for a long time, like 12 years in the church world. Try to plant a church. It was really, I, I planted with a guy who I thought was a close friend.
We ended up really butting heads. I'm giving you like the PG version, but it, it turned out super messy. Big identity, uh, like crisis I was having at that time. 'cause it's the first time since I was 18, I wasn't in the church world and I wasn't like a pastor, like an official on staff at a church pastor as a pastor.
And that started slowly um, kinda spiraling outta control my identity stuff leading into my marriage. Me as a dad and I was just like, we were straight up. About to get a divorce. 'cause I was, I pulled myself away from her, pulled myself away from my kids. And, um, we were, there was a point where it was like, in my mind, I had already checked out and I was like googling, like divorce lawyers and I was trying to figure out like custody stuff in my head.
Who's gonna take who, where am I gonna live? It was super, yeah. I was messy, dude. How many
kids
did you have at the time?
I had two. And my son, my son was three, which was the age that, uh, I was, when my dad left. And so it was like really plain, like mental. I was going, I was in weird, dark spot. And so anyway, um.
We were in the middle of a fight one day and we were in our bedroom, and I came in and I was already just like, dude, I'm, I'm mad at her. I'm gonna be like, just, I was in such a, like, sinful, dark spot. I was like, I'm just gonna be mean to her. And so I said something on purpose to like hurt her. My goal was just to straight up hurt her in a fight.
And, um, she looked at me and she had tears in her eyes and I was like. I was in such a bad spot. I was like, I'm winning this fight. 'cause my wife is smarter than me and she wins every fight. To this day that's still like a marriage issue. But, uh, but back then, you know, she was, she won all the fights and I was like, I'm just gonna hurt her.
So she starts to cry and I'm like, finally, I'm up. I'm winning. I'm winning this fight. And she said to me, um, it was a moment that changed my life. She said, Jared, I've been waking up in the middle of the night. I've been setting my alarm to wake up in the middle of the night, and I've been going into our living room.
And I've just been begging God to capture your heart again. And she, she went on to say like, I just want my husband back. I want my husband who loves Jesus back. And I was ready for like every scenario of a fight, but I was not ready for that scenario. And that really, I always say, I always say that like the, you know, when the, the book of Romans says it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.
Wow. And it was really the kindness of God through my wife. That just dude melted my heart. All the anger that I was feeling just like went away and I was like, what am I doing? And that started a journey of healing for me and really coming back into Christian community. 'cause I had pushed away all my Christian friends.
So that church
experience had kind of like was the, was the beginning of making you kind of hardening your heart towards. To towards the church and towards faith. That was kind of the beginning of that. Yeah, for sure.
Okay. Yeah. And I was like, I never wanna be part of churches again. I don't wanna be part of Christian community.
And when you're in sin, you don't really want to be around Christians.
Yeah.
And I was like, I was just, I was living a rebellious life and I didn't want to be around Christians, but that started, um, I wrote a blog, very millennial thing of me to, I'm like at the top end of a millennial here, so very millennial thing.
I'm like, process my emotions. Publicly.
What were you doing for work at the time?
Dude, nothing. Like, I was selling gutters at Costco. I was driving Uber, like everything to just pay bills. Um, but wasn't doing ministry. I was like doing photography and stuff. And anyway, so, uh, wrote this blog. Nobody, nobody, I wasn't like a blogger, nobody.
This was 10 years ago too, said like,
just, just on a whim. Started.
I mean, I was a pastor, so I just, there was kind of this like natural for me to like try to express what I'm feeling right out loud. Right. And I had no platform to do it, so I just like wrote about it. And that ended up going viral. All these mommy blogs picked it up and, and I started getting messages from guys all over.
Like, dude, I'm, I, I basically told the story of what happened with me and my wife in that specific argument. And I got all these messages from guys who are like, dude, I'm in the same boat. Like, I'm not the husband man, father, I want to be. But I, I'm not, I don't wanna give up on my family either. And so we just started to like have this little Facebook group that's probably like 60 guys encouraging each other.
And one of the guys was like, you should start a podcast. Which 10 years ago, dude, no, there was podcasts. Like nobody was really listening to podcast. So I threw my headphones in and just started recording and it went. It just, that was like the start of dad tired kind of exploding because there was, at the time, there was no dad podcast and I was pretty raw.
I was just sharing, like it was just an outlet for me to share my. How broken I was feeling and it just kind of took off. So that was the start.
Where did you like land on the name? Dad? Tired. I'm, I'm curious, like if you had a journal, you were sketching different titles or was, you know, just, I'm just interested in Not tired Dad.
Dad Tired, like Yeah, dude, it
was, it was like tongue in cheek. 'cause these guys were reaching out to me, private messaging me on, on uh, Facebook and I was like, we should get, start a group and just kind of. Literally like tongue in cheek. I was like, dad, I don't, it was dead tired dad tire. It was, it was like the smartest, unintentional thing I've ever done in my life.
Because every guy, yeah. 'cause
it's almost like dad is too tired to even finish a sentence or something. Yeah. That's how it kind of hit me. Like, or cave Manish. Dead tired. Yeah. Right, right. And
it's funny, 'cause like Christian, non-Christian, everyone kind of, every dad kind of like feels it, you know, it's like it's immediately relatable and it's not like dad perfect, or like dad's got it figured out, you know?
It's just like, it immediately gives the impression that's like. I'm committed, but I'm exhausted.
Yeah. It's like, hey, this is a safe place. The ground is level here. We're all, yeah. You know, we're all figuring it out, man. Yeah. I love hearing the, the why of something like this and, uh, it sounds like you've been on a journey with a lot of other dads who've followed along and found, um, encouragement and inspiration through.
Through the podcast that you've done now. So the podcast is 10 years old already.
I think it's like eight and a
half, you know, it's incredible. Yeah. I was listening this morning. Uh, I was headed home from a meeting and I clicked on one of your episodes, I think it was the episode, called, uh, be Wary of a Of Good, of a of Good Times.
Yeah. But you had in, I think in that episode, you were dropping off your youngest. Yep. For school. And I realized quickly, I knew we had some things in common. One were dads, you know, obviously. But also, uh, it's, it sounds like I was worried after listening to that episode that you and me just might be two dudes crying on a podcast today because you, uh, you confessed to shedding some tears in that particular episode.
Um, can we, can we swap stories about crying lately and, and then. Yeah. Give men permission to be grown. Men who cry.
I, I actually was gonna ask you about that because I saw on your Instagram that you had just sent your daughter off. Yeah. And I'm like, just seeing that made me emotional. Oh dude. Because, I mean, I dropped my, I dropped my preschooler off.
At preschool two days a week for three hours a day, and I about had a panic attack.
That's what you were telling the story. You like, got in your car and like started tearing up. You're like, it's just preschool.
Right, dude. So like, where are you at like, on that? I mean, you're, you're on the other end of that spectrum.
Gosh, man. On a deeper level, like
Yeah, it's, um, you know, we're, we're several weeks into it now, but as a songwriter, my job is to keep my emotions. Somewhat close to the surface, right? Yeah. I mean, I've gotta be willing to go there. Emotionally, vulnerability wise, and, and you do with your podcast. It sounds like that's why the very first blog you wrote went viral is 'cause you were willing to go there.
So we know that the ability to, to, you know, as guys, I think it's like we, we want to push it down deep and not feel the things and not feel the feelings. Yeah. I don't get that luxury as a songwriter, really. Yeah. Um, but at the same time, I, I wouldn't call myself, I'm not the guy who's. You know, crying at a sentimental toilet paper commercial either, right?
I don't, I don't cry at the drop of a hat, but, but man, I, I'll tell you the moment that got me, my wife was, she was very emotional leading up to the time where it was time to actually get in the car and I. And drive to the university to drop her off. But there was a mo just,
just for context for our guys.
Yes. So you have daughter, this is your oldest daughter? Yes. And you have all daughter, all you have all girls, right? I
have two daughters. I have a, a freshman in college now, and a sophomore in high school. Okay. And, and I'll tell you what I mean, just for your listeners, like if they're, if they're closer to where you are, where you're dropping preschoolers off, you know you're gonna hear.
Anybody who's further down the line tell you, man, it goes by fast. And that sounds so cliche, but can I just tell you? Cliches are cliches because they're freaking true. Like, I mean, and nobody can prepare you for just how fast. It's just like. Uh, it's like the days are long, but the years are short. You know what I mean?
Yeah. And so I don't know how it happened, but all of a sudden it's time and she's going to college and we're taking her and, uh, you know, this past August comes around and it's like, here it is. I've been dreading this day and there was a moment before we left the house. Where I asked her, I was like, Hey, do you want me to, do you want one more iced latte?
Because that would be my thing for her. Like I would, I would make her an iced latte. And she said, yeah, dad, would you make me one? And I'm telling you, I went to put the, the coffee and the, the machine and make her drink. Just how I know she likes it. And standing there at the coffee bar in our kitchen, I just lost it and she saw me and she lost it.
And that was the, I would, I'd like to say that was the only time. In the whole process. But man, then moving her into her dorm room, uh, just I, these waves of emotion have come over me at different times. Sometimes I'm on stage and I'm, there's a song I wrote called 18 Summers. That's kind of a, you know, it's.
Not kind of, it's about exactly what my wife and I are going through right now with our family transition. And, uh, I'll start singing the song and I'll just get like, it just like it gets me, man. So, I don't know. I joke with the audiences that like I heard about. This like emotion happening with women at a certain age.
But then I realized the word men is in the term menopause. And I was like, well, I don't know, maybe this is, maybe it's menopause. Maybe that's snuck itself in there. Yeah. So maybe your Dad Tired podcast will transition to menopause PO. The Menopause podcast. That's a better, better
name dude, that's for sure a better name.
But, uh, I'm, I'm laughing because
deep down I really am still wanting to cry when I think about having a kid in college already.
Oh my gosh, dude, it hit a, literally, you just, you describing that story hit a I could have started crying, right? That the, the latte thing is like,
oh, well, you know what? And I, I kind of, if there was one thing I could like boil it down to that, like, I thought about a lot in the weeks before taking her and in, and especially in the days right up to taking her.
And then even since dropping her off at college, I just felt this urgency or like. I like, did I do a good job? Like did I teach her all the things? Like did I, you know what I mean? Like all of a sudden just like guilt trip, like, I, like you wouldn't believe I regretted, like I regretted every concert I ever played.
That took me away from mm-hmm. Them for, for a day. I started to count up the days in a year that I was away and it just like, oh dude. I, I mean, just waves upon waves of, of self, like. Uh, just guilt, you know? Yeah. Self shaming of like, oh, you could have done better as a dad. Right. And, uh, I'll tell you one of the things that, that meant the most to me, two things in the form of two letters.
And it's reminded me that I need to do a better job of putting down in writing how I feel about people. Because whenever somebody does that for me, it's like gold and, uh. There was a, a letter left by my daughter for me that she left, um, for me to read when she went off to college, and I couldn't even read it for first couple days.
I just saw it there and I knew what it was, and, and then what she shared with me just was like, I. You know, it meant the world to me. And then my wife wrote me a letter too, just um, telling me from her vantage point what kind of dad she feels I've been. And, uh, that kind of helped me through some of the feelings of guilt that any dad and any parent are gonna feel like, oh, did I screw this up?
Did I, you know, 'cause none of us are perfect. Right. That's the essence of the name of your podcast. Right. Just kind of letting yourself off the hook a little bit to say, man, we're not, perfection is not the goal. When it comes to parenthood, it, it can't be because nobody can live up to that. But, um, trying to be present, I guess is the goal,
isn't it?
You know, what's, you know, what's really, um, interesting about what you described that helped was the, the why your wife writing you a letter. I think I underestimated how powerful our wives words are. For us. Like I, I think, um, not to get like deep in wounds here, but like, I think for a lot of my life I didn't grow up again without a dad.
So I think for a lot of my life I've been searching for somebody to just like, give me those words of affirmation and, and you try to find, I don't know if everyone does this. I, I think certainly guys do this, but it's like. You know, whether it's a coach or, you know, you write a song and everyone's like, dude, that's a, that's such a good song.
You know, everyone's just kind of affirming, affirming, affirming, uh, and all of it's great, but none of it hits like our wife. Hmm. You know, like none of it hit when my wife tells me something, and I don't Also, my wife is not words of affirmation. It's like. Yeah, probably bottom of her list. So when she does say it, I'm just like, oh my gosh.
Like, yeah, you just filled my tank so much. You have no idea.
Isn't that so funny? How like in, you know that book, the Five Love Languages, was it Gary Smalley wrote that book?
Uh, no. Gary Chapman? No.
Gary Chapman. Um, my mom gave my wife and I that book. As a gift before we got married. And when I read it, I wasn't sure it was a gift because, but it is funny you just mentioned like that maybe it sounds like, so words of affirmation might be at or near the top of your list of love languages.
I mean, of course most dudes Physical touch is usually fighting for, for number one if we're being honest, right? But words of affirmation. But it is funny how I think a lot of spouses wind up. You wind up marrying for whatever reason, someone whose love language is not the same as yours. Mm-hmm. And therefore, and there the work begins.
Like I, it's the same with my wife, like acts of service. Would be and, and, uh, you know, and nice, nice purses. Is that one of the five Love gif? Yeah. Gif. She likes gif. Okay. You know, but, but like, you know, I could write her a, a love song. I'll, dude, dude, this is so funny. So like, words of affirmation's up near the top for me as well.
Just like you, but like, I. I thought I was God's gift to Emily because I could write her a song that would like express my heart, just prepare I got a gift for you. And I'm not trying to make her sound cold hearted, 'cause that's not at all. But like when I played her a song about, I wrote for her, she'd be like, oh, that's, that's nice.
That's sweet. But if I vacuumed. I was the hottest guy on the planet.
Just cool song. Can you do the dishes that way? And that's to
this present day. Like if I, like last night I got up and I actually cleaned up and did the dishes after dinner. And I think like. I was like Brad Pitt to her. But if I had sung her a sonnet, you know, or whatever, like, it'd be like, eh, okay,
whatever.
Okay, cool, cool. But
why, why is that? Why do we gravitate? I mean, I guess opposites attract, but the same goes for our love languages.
Yeah, dude, I, I know some people that I've, I've mentioned love languages on our podcast and some people, you know, harp on it. 'cause it's essentially, I, the criticism people have given towards love languages is like.
You can't just say, well, you have to love me in this way, because then it becomes about you like, I'm not receiving it. 'cause you're not, you're not loving me the way I wanna be loved. And it's like, well, I, yes, there's truth in that, but also we're all wired uniquely, and God is, and the reason that caught that book is sold like.
6 billion copies is because everyone can, can relate to the fact that we're all wired.
But also my takeaway from the book was the opposite of like selfishness and actually the practice of selflessness. Like in other words, yeah, when you, like if you travel. Okay. This summer I traveled to. Uh, Europe and it's like, you know, I was trying to speak the language in that country.
I did a horrible job, but I was using, you know, Google Translate. Like I wasn't just gonna be that arrogant American who I. You know, demanded that they speak my language. Like, and I think about that when it comes to this topic with our spouses. Like I walked away from that book going like, Hey, the, the lazy approach is to speak the language that you like to receive.
Mm. Like you're best at, your best at speaking the love language that you like to receive the most. But guess what, dude? That ain't always gonna be what's gonna speak the loudest to your spouse. And so, I mean, that book, that's why it didn't feel like a gift when I read the book because I was like, oh, I've got some work to do.
I need to learn a foreign language. And you know what, yeah, these acts of service, which in my case as a dude, like that's a foreign language, especially early in your marriage where. It's all about you until you get married and you're like, oh, like there's somebody else that I gotta think about. Like, right.
So I mean, that was, that was an interesting thing. But back to your point, I will say words of affirmation from, from your wife. I, I can totally agree with you as a husband. That is, I mean, and whether you've had a lack of, of sources in your life like you just talked about with your dad, like, or if you've had an abundance of them, like the person who's closest to you, which you know, should be your spouse, like when that person affirms you and builds you up and, and you know that they're in your corner, man, I've had some cool moments with my wife too, where like sometimes it's a good thing to have, like when you face conflict with.
Other parts in other things going on in your world, but like you're working through it with your wife. Have you had this where like, yeah, there's something else going on and maybe I'm at odds with somebody else, but it's like my wife's got my back.
Yeah.
Do you know what I mean? And there's just moments where it's like, it's us.
It's us against the world. And not in an antagonistic way, but in a, in a, like a bonding way.
Yeah. Dude, at the end of the day, like everyone else comes and goes really like, you know, like. I'm gonna be here. I mean, your experience, a glimpse of that. Not to get back to your sending one of your daughters out, but like you're, you're 50% of the way to an empty nester, bro.
Dude. Well, you're trying to make me
cry again. Yeah.
Uh, yeah, dude. So, I mean, it's just gonna be you and your wife here shortly. And it's, I mean, I, I'm, I'm thinking about that. I just took my wife on a date, breakfast date the other day and I'm just like, man, we gotta, just gotta keep falling in love, keep practicing.
Like just knowing her as a woman and not just get through the chaos of. Parenting because Yeah, having it is us against the world in so many ways, and especially like you and I kind of live when, if anyone that lives a, a life a little bit in front of people, which means there's criticism. It, it just feels even more deep when you're wi when you feel like you know it despite what that comment said.
Yeah.
On YouTube or Facebook or whatever. It's like, uh, my wife loves me too. Yeah. I mean, for, and, and as Christians obviously. I'm deeply loved by the, the God of the universe, which is the greatest, greatest foundation words, but to have my wife, wife in my corner and my, and my wife tells me constantly, she's like, Jared, I love, I don't care about any of the things that, that people care about, like all the accolades or successes that people could, I don't, I don't care at all.
Yeah. I just love you. Yeah, man, and bro, that's, that's some stability
I tell you. I mean, I feel the same way, like being a singer too. It's like my wife. And she could, I'll be like, you wanna come to my show? She's like, I'm good. Like it's not that, it's not that she doesn't like my music or whatever, but like she is not, it's just I married like, because I'll tell you something and I'm just being honest, but when I was in college or whatever, like I would tend to date a girl who like.
Was kind of digging, you know, music. She was a, music was, I mean, why do you think I started playing guitar in the first place? Was like, that's whole point. It wasn't gonna be my good looks that was gonna get a girl, right? But like, it was like I gravitated to people who were like a fan of like what I was doing musically.
And then the girl I married. She was not a fan. Like she couldn't have cared less. But she's my biggest fan just in life and like, I mean, I'm so thankful for that, you know what I mean? It just, uh, it's everything. Years ago we went through something 'cause I was, sometimes I'll write funny songs. You probably, I don't know if you remember this, but.
It might have hit your radar just in with your platform of being a dad, but I, I wrote a song called Modest as Hottest,
and I, I don't know if I heard it. Yeah, okay.
I'm glad you didn't hear about it. But, so it was this joke of a song that was like, because I've got these daughters and I'm trying to raise them to like, you know, understand that they don't need to like dress.
Crazy to get the attention of a boy. Like, you know, man looks at the outward appearance. God looks at the heart. But, so I wrote this goofy song, just ba basically saying like, be less, be, you know, more like Jesus and less like Cardi B and and dude, but people went after me like I was some sort of a like.
Cult leader or I was like a conservative male trying to tell women what to do. I mean, it triggered everybody and their mother and it all of a sudden it felt like, because it was a song that was like, it was kind of goofy with my family. We even did like a funny music video. 'cause the song is clearly irony where I'm trying to tell them like, oh, the latest fashion trend is, um, is a turtleneck.
And a modest pair of slacks, like I'm trying to convince them like, no, no, no. That's what the kids are wearing right now. Like stupid. Right. Obviously. Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm at the guy spending all my money at Lululemon for them. Right. I lose the battle.
Right.
Uh, but dude, there was something about that time, Jared, that like we rattled together as a family.
Mm-hmm. Because. It seemed like we were all in on the joke, but then everybody else turned on us, and then like if I pulled the song away, then all the Christians got mad at me because they thought I was backing down to the woke mob. But really, as a dad, I was trying to protect my daughters because it was starting to turn towards them.
And it was one of those like. If you've ever had a, I don't know if you've ever had a moment where you're like, oh my gosh, I'm getting canceled. It's like, for 48 hours, it seems like the world is ending and then yeah, then the, then the mob finds another thing to be outraged about and it, and you move on.
That's
the nice thing is they move on pretty quickly. Oh yeah.
I don't, it's, I don't have any fear of that anymore, but that was a time where my wife and I, like we locked arms and like, I was like, we were on a walk and I was like. Pretty shaken up. I'm like, I think I may have just like stepped in something that I didn't even know I was stepping into.
Mm-hmm. It, it triggered this whole purity culture thing, everything, and then it all blew over, but I knew who had my back and Yeah. And that, that means everything, man.
I feel like you're getting good at stepping in things.
I don't want to, I don't want to be that guy. Dude. I'm
trying, dude, you're like the lead from my very little interaction with you.
You're like not the guy at all trying to like, you know, ruffle feathers and push people. No, but dude, I was falling on Instagram when I saw you posted something recently that people were just going nuts over the hats. I mean, just like the Yeah, the criticism. How do you handle that? Like you said, it doesn't bother you now.
Are you like, is that a, is that a learned a, a muscle you've grown in?
Well, I think the thing that I'm learning is like, I, I don't, my goal is not to be an i I, I certainly don't want to be an instigator or someone who pokes the bear just to poke the bear. Like my mission in life is to tell people about Jesus and connect to the hearts of people with the power of story and tell the greatest story ever told every chance I get.
So, so I think sometimes, but as a human, sometimes you can do something that you think is funny and you can wind up get off getting off mission slightly too. Um, so I think that's, sometimes I'll chalk it up to that, but like, I have a song called Don't Stop Praying. And I thought it'd be funny to, to make a hat reminding people about the importance of prayer.
And it was a Red Hat. Yeah. And it borrowed a familiar phrase and it just said, make America Pray again. Right. And I thought, well, that's a great campaign slogan for the Believer. Like, uh, you know, like not choosing sides, but man. Oh dude, people lost their minds. Oh dude. Like it was un I'm unfollowing. I'm, you know, I'm so disappointed in you.
It was like, they didn't even read the hat like they thought I was wearing a Make America Great again hat. Yeah. Which, and it's like, man, but even if I was, that's the crazy part, right? Like even, which I wasn't, but it's just the, I'll say this, this I, tell me if you feel this way, but I've said this multiple times.
I feel like our world right now. Preaches tolerance and practice is the opposite. A
hundred percent. Oh yeah. Dude.
Like, oh, we needed to be loving and accepting of everybody and, and we, we talk a good game, but we do not. No. Yeah. Walk that out. Yeah, and I've, I've felt the brunt of that at times where it's like, I wasn't even trying to be political.
I was just being goofy and like pointing people to, Hey, let's pray again. How about that? You know,
it's crazy, dude, that a prayer, like your liter, the literal encouragement of the post was like. To keep encouraging people to pray and how something like that can blow up, but it just showed like we're so sensitive.
As a people. So sensitive. So sensitive. Well, do you
ever step in it with your podcast? I mean, are you ever I have a couple times. I don't
have as big of a platform as you do and usually I, I'll run everything through my wife,
so well. Okay. So in that case, like she loved that hat. She was all for it. Well, you know, I mean, I think she thought it was funny and she's like, and she, you know, here's the deal.
You know who the loudest voice is. Speaking of words of affirmation, this is why words of affirmation to our spouse and from our spouse are important. 'cause oftentimes what I've discovered is the loudest voices are the minority, but they're loud minority. Yeah, they're a critical, uh, hateful. And I'm looking for a reason to get.
Enraged. I'm looking for a reason to, to, to cancel. You give me one reason and that's all I need, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know? And so I do think it's a vocal minority, but it is not the majority. Um, and so I try to, if I ever offend people or whatever, I'm trying to keep that. Perspective. And uh, you know, I've heard it said post and ghost, you know what I mean?
Like, try not to live in the Yeah. I think Joe
Rogan said, I heard Joe Rogan say that, you know, was that Joe posting Ghost Joe? Yeah. He just, he just posted and ghost. Well,
okay. We're about to get hate now. If we even know a quote from Joe Rogan, somebody's gonna be like, well, I'll take,
I'll take it. My, my podcast listeners know my big UFC fan, so I'll take it.
You know?
Yeah. Well he's also been a voice of reason in a crazy time. Yeah. That, like who would've thought that he'd be. You know, a sensible voice that, you know, crazy anyways, times are weird, dude. Now we're definitely gonna get hate. Yeah. I'll take it.
It seems like, and I don't want to make this, you know, conversation, you know, negative or sad or anything.
'cause I think every, all of us are feeling as a people just like, man, everything's just sad and angry all the time. But what I've noticed is that people who are the saddest and angriest are the ones being the loudest. You know? Like I've never, we all are on social media. I scroll on social media like everyone else does, and I see.
90% of things that I don't agree with, or I think it's dumb or I didn't think was a great post. And I'm never sitting there commenting like, this is dumb. Like I've, I've literally never done that. I know. And it's just because I'm like, the the amount of sadness that you have to have in your life to like, comment on somebody else's thing to say, this is dumb.
I don't like this, whatever. It's like, bro, just move on. Like, I, I heard a comedian say it one time, like. You don't walk by a restaurant you don't like and like open the door and be like, this place sucks. I hate it. You know, like your food's terrible and then just shut the door. Like, it's
so true. Just
walk by dude.
Just be like, yeah, I don't eat there, you know? Okay.
So what's funny is I did see a comment where somebody announced proudly that they were unfollowing me and my favorite thing is the people who like support me. Will like get my back and it cracks me up. But someone's like, uh, you know, Hey Sally, this is not an airport.
You don't need to announce your departure. I thought that was funny. Like, like I was, that's quiet. Come back like quietly. Go wait to go
man. Stick it to him. Yeah. It's a weird, the, the hardest criticism for me 'cause I'm getting better at it. When I first started. You know, do anything. You write a book, like I wrote a book and you've written books, like that's a hard one.
You wr you write songs, you write stuff that like stays out there, that's always hard, you know, it's like, yeah. It's a little bit more permanent. Um, and that you, you work really hard on it, and then you put out the world and you're always kinda like, do you guys like this? Oh gosh.
I, oh, it's like, I mean, can we talk about that?
I mean, yeah. 'cause, and you talk about it if words are, if words of affirmation are important to you. Right, Jared? It's like sometimes, I mean, dude, I'll tell you, I mean. I just put a record out, but there's a feeling that comes over me if I'm just being totally honest. Yeah. The minute I put a record out, I'm like, if a tree falls in the forest, does anybody hear like, yeah.
It's that, this feeling that you get where it's just like nobody cares or whatever, and it's just, but then I like, and that's where my relationship with the Lord is. I have to return to like, yes, do I practice what I preach in my songs? Like do I know where my true worth is found? Like,
yeah, what
is the true definition of success, which I think is why your podcast is so important.
I gotta ask you though, real quick though, before we move on from the political stuff with your podcast. Are you digging into like with talking with parents and dads about how to walk their kids through like this crazy, hateful world, not just with politics, but in general? Like what, how do you approach that as a dad and how do you approach that in your podcast?
Are you, do you touch on it at all?
I don't, and I, I don't know. I don't know if I'm doing a good job. This would be interesting. I'm sure I'll get feedback from the listeners listening to this right now from the dad. Tired guys. If they'll be like, dude, thank you for not going political. Uh, or if they'll be like, IW wish you would talk about it more.
I balance it because it's like, this is the world. The, I I always say we are missionaries in this culture. Like we are, we are sent once. God is, there's a reason that we are, we woke up where we woke up in the year, in the time in the neighborhoods. And the countries that we woke up in. And that's for God's glory.
Like we were sent once here, ambassadors of Christ to spread the good news of the gospel. And so in that way, we have to be students of the culture. And I have to know like what is the culture? What are they worshiping? Uh, what gods are they believing in? And, and how do I point them to the better God, the the one in true God?
And so in that way, I feel like that is an angle that I feel like I should probably talk about cultural stuff more. Because it does make sense for us as missionaries and raising up little missionaries who are gonna be sent ones out, you know? Um, well, and
how it feels like, I mean, I think the, the part where families like the, the traditional family feels under attack or like, you know what I mean?
Or who's raising our kids kind of. Right. Those types of topics are, are tough as well. I mean, obviously like my kids are already like. You know, and, and we had the blessing of being able to put them in incredible Christian school where, you know, they're praying and the teachers are praying over the kids.
And I mean, that's, I know that's a privilege and Yeah. But you know, I mean, the stuff that I hear going on in, in a lot of public schools and what a lot of parents are having to walk their kids through, maybe what they're having to teach their kids about at a very young age, younger than you'd ever even think about.
Right? Not, not only. The, the political types of things, uh, you know, gender, ideology, all those kinds of things. But also like, I mean, uh, how many times do our kids have to see another school shooting? And then, and how do, and how do we walk with our kids through. You know, the, the indirect trauma, they might even experience watching that.
You know what I mean? Nashville had a school shooting, uh, that was just down the road from where our kids went to school, and the, the, there was the thought that the shooter was, was targeting our kids' school as well. And so you're trying to, I was like, as a parent, you're like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I. I don't, I don't know that I have the manual for how to handle all that stuff either.
That's some heavy stuff, isn't it?
Dude, you're trying to like, I should read the Bible with my kids every day and I should make sure I'm praying with them and I gotta love my wife. And also the bills are due and now there's a school shooting and also you're talking about 18 genders at school. Like there's so much.
Yeah,
it's like, Hey dad, why is there a litter box in the bathroom? You know what I mean? Bro.
Dude, I moved from Portland, so that was quite literally like real, those were real conversation. I, we homeschool, we've always homeschooled our kids. But those were real conversations happening among our friend groups, the litter box things.
I try to, uh, my, my 3-year-old came into my bed this morning, uh, and she woke up earlier than I wanted her to wake up. So I was like just laying there. I was like, I was, I was like, baby, you want me to turn on the tv? You could just watch a show while daddy keeps sleeping. So I turn on the show and I'm like half asleep and I could hear what they're talking about.
This is Disney Junior. And I'm like, it, like it totally woke me up. 'cause I'm like, what are they talking about right now? And I, I look at the TV and again, I never know how deep to get into this stuff on, on the show if you guys are gonna be like, bro, I got other out. I always feel like, here's what, going back to your question, I always feel like guys are like, I have my political outs.
Like I go to people, I listen to certain podcasts for my political opinions. Yeah. I listen to my podcast for like. That's totally, that's probably right. And
I'm not trying to pull you into it. I'll tell you that much. You're
trying to get me to stuff, but I will say, so I turned on the TV and there's like.
Bro, there's some real, and this Disney Junior, there's some characters on there that they are clearly trying to make a point hundred percent to my 3-year-old. And I'm like, yeah, I turned it off. I'm like, this is crazy. Yeah, this is crazy.
Yeah. To anybody. You know, I think, uh, I, I think there's wisdom in what you're saying though, and like, you know, it's how do we be in the world not of it?
How do we stand up for what is right and true. While also being a, a message of hope and love and pointing people to Jesus, you know, and, and typically pointing people to Jesus does not come as a result of us pointing at them. Yeah. You know what I mean? So how do we, you know, I'm, I'm working that out just like you are and every other dad and try to walk with my kids through that process.
I, I think that the two things that I. Want to be. I don't know if this is turning out to be true, but two things that I want to be true. One would be I want my kids to really know truth and how to recognize things that aren't true. And we have a biblical worldview. So we believe truth to be as God designed it.
So that's our as Christian family and as Christians, we say God's word is the ultimate truth. That's right. Um, we view our world and what is true through God's word and how he designed it. And so then you can just, they can quickly be able to see like that's not how God designed things for human flourishing.
And that's really what we're trying to teach our kids and disciple them is like, okay, the world is saying this. And based on how we know God has designed things for human flourishing. Yeah. Is that true? And be able to like, you know, decipher those things. Yeah. I think that's super important and where we need to be students and good students of our culture.
And, and again, that's where the kind of the, I would say, the more I. Not to use the, uh, aggressive is probably the wrong word, but just like strong. That's where we need to be strong. Yeah. And fight against lies. Lies of the enemy, lies of culture that say that is not the way God has designed things. And I'm willing to stand firm on the truth of God's word, even if it goes against culture.
Yeah. Because that's by, that's the lens by which we'll see every, our kids will see the rest of the world. That's where it begins. Yes. That, that's a hundred percent. What did, what did CS Lewis say? He said, uh, I believe. Here, I'm gonna look this up. 'cause I love this quote. Yeah, but it's, uh, what did he say? I believe that the sun exists.
Oh.
As you're, as you're looking that up. Um, the other thing that I really want to be true for our, our family is just ridiculous. Um, joy. Like, joy. That doesn't make sense. Ooh. And I think joy is gonna be like one of the greatest. Me and my buddy Spence were talking about this the other day, like the world is so lacking joy that for Christians to have like this.
Unfathomable, um, unrealistic, like peace and joy is just gonna be, it's gonna catch their attention. So I want us to be like a family, just like as the world is burning, we're just like, why is that family just not rattled by this? Oh, I love that. I love that it's up deep. Just 'cause we have, we have a savior that we know, we know, as you said, actually, your new song.
We know the last page, know the last last page
of the Bible. Billy Graham said that I've read the last page of the Bible and it's all going to be all right. I wanna talk about the joy thing for one second, but this was the quote I believe in Christianity, which is what you're saying, you know, a, a, a biblical worldview.
I believe in Christianity as I believe. That the sun has risen. Not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.
Mm.
And like that'ss the lens with which we're gonna, we want to teach our kids to look through the world and then be able to discern truth from lies. And it's never been harder.
I mean, now we got so many, we got so many words for a lot. I love how the world keeps inventing new words, misinformation. Malformation, right? I mean, it's all like hoaxes hoax, right? That's a popular, it is. Like, uh, man, I'm so thankful for that. But talk about the joy thing a little bit more. I kind of took us back, but
No, dude, I think you talk about the joy thing.
'cause that's your, that's the, uh, who's the gal that you just wrote that song with?
Anne Wilson,
Anne Wilson. I think that that, I mean, the, the point of that song is what I'm trying to get after. You know? It's like,
yeah,
because when I want to be a student of the culture, what happens is I move from being a student of the culture to like getting sucked into now I'm angry at everybody.
I'm no longer a missionary trying to love. I'm sucker and mad.
It's the news puts me in a bad mood. Me and one of my close friends, we, we don't see eye to eye on a lot of stuff politically, but man, we started getting into these like debates and it was like, before we would try to write a song and it was like, we just decided, we're like, bro, we should not a good head space.
'cause it does, it just messes with your mood, especially right now, man. And it's like, and the bottom line is, is come November, the half the people are gonna be. Angry, mad. I, you know what I mean? Like, and so to be carriers of joy and for our families to be, I mean, you wanna talk about a bright light. Joy is gonna shine bright because there's, there seems to be quite an absence of it and you know, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
So I think that's an awesome perspective to have for your family.
I was just taking my garbage out yesterday and one of my neighbors were like, Hey, and, and I wasn't feeling like. Over the top, like anything, you know? So I was at, my initial impression was to be like, Hey, this was up it's morning time, but my, I was immediately had the thought of like, dude, present joy, which is a fruit of the spirit.
You know? It's like this. If the spirit of God is working into me, and I am a tree, I talk to my kids about this all the time. If I'm a tree. And, and I say I'm a Jesus loving tree. Here are the things that should be coming outta the Jesus loving tree. And joy is a, is one of them. Um, and if we're not having joy, dude, then yeah, I just need to Eva like spirit, grow this, grow this fruit in me, you know?
Can you talk real quick about, like, when you say, I talk to my kids about this all the time. Like, are there set times where you're, where you find yourself always, like, like do you have devotional time with the family or is it more. Life on the go, conversations come up more spontaneously. Like sometimes I've beat myself up going like, man, okay.
I took him to church. I dropped him off at youth group, but like we didn't have like our time would be like on the way to school. I would read him a scripture and pray over them before I dropped 'em off. But it's like. Three minutes, right? Yeah. And it wouldn't always be, it wasn't always, I, sometimes I hear about families having like kumbaya, like worship services in their house at night, and I'm like, I'd be like, man, dude, I, I think I blew that.
You know? But what, what does that look like for you with your kids when it comes to spiritual instruction outside of the homeschooling and just dad being dad, looking for moments to talk with their kids?
Dude, when I hear those stories of the, of families that are doing that, first I just wanna punch the dad in the face and then like, go home and spank my kids for some reason.
Those are, those are my immediate reactions. All that to say, I'm not doing it, like I'm failing at that. I don't know, man. I just, I, I really lean into the Deuteronomy six, like as you go, as you're, I mean, there's a theme throughout scripture, so Deuteronomy six. Love the Lord you got with all your heart, soul minus strength.
And then impress these things onto your children as you walk, as you talk, as you're eating around the table. And that has always felt the most natural to me. And for the discipleship journey, the deepest conversations I've had with my kids were never planned. The most spiritual conversations I've had with my kids were never once where I planned to have it.
I love that.
It was always spontaneous, but and, and then Jesus did that, right? Like Jesus wasn't at Yeah. Having his disciples meet with him on Tuesdays at seven o'clock to go over the Torah or whatever. Yeah. All the miracles he
did on the way, for sure.
Right. And then, and then. When he, his last words, therefore go into all the world and make disciples.
That's translated. And we've heard a lot of pastors talk about it, but it's as you're going, so it just, that theme kind of carries out through all scripture as you're going, Deuteronomy Jesus with his own disciples and then his last words to his disciples as you're going keep making disciples. Yeah. And so that's always been my strategy with, I, I always say like, look as a dad, look for more 15 second moments.
Versus like 15 minute polished conversations. Yeah, that's good. It's usually the 15 second moments. But I will say Deuteronomy starts with love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. And then impress these things on your children. So a lot of the time we won't impress the things on our children if we don't actually love the Lord with everything that we've got as dads.
Yeah. So it actually starts with us first loving God more than anything.
Well, because, you know, nobody can, can sniff out in authenticity like a kid. Oh, dude. And, and that goes with their, when it comes to watching their parents as well. And so I think that's, that's something that can, you know, hopefully is convicting for parents in the best way to go.
Like, look, if I talk about Jesus more than my kids see me talking to Jesus, then you know, they, they're, you know, which one's gonna speak louder. And so I think that's something that's always hit home for me as well, just. Uh, feeling challenged in that area that I could preach to 'em, you know, to the, I could talk about them being joyful and showing joy to the world, but if I'm coming home angry all the time or, you know what I mean?
There was a season for us as a family where we had a. We had hired a builder to do work for us and it was just, it turned into a train work, train wreck. Like it was awful. And it was just one of those nightmare experiences where you're like getting completely taken advantage of and just, and I, it consumed me for a season like where I was just so, I had never been so wronged in my mind.
I was just so angry and it, I know that joy was not. Yeah, the predominant, uh, people were not walking away going, that guy is filled with joy. You know what I mean? It was not, and, and I know that, that my kids felt that, and I, I had to ask for forgiveness for how I let outside circumstances affect. The joy that should be joy unspeakable and joy unwavering despite the circumstances going on around me.
So we're all works in progress in that area. Hey, you mentioned to me, um, that you're doing another podcast. Are you talking about that yet? Is that
Yeah, dude, we, uh, so I'm doing two new ones. So we have the Dad's Tire Podcast. Been over eight years of episodes there, but, um, two new ones. One, I'm, I've just.
Jumped on as the co-host of Ben Roethlisberger's podcast. Big Ben. Yeah, big band dude. Footballing. Um, it's called Footballing. Yeah, footballing. That's his dude.
That's awesome. How did you get like, hooked up with that?
Um, Micah dude, the, the, uh, Micah Tyler the Ultimate. Yeah, the ultimate connector man. He connected us really.
And then he connected me with Ben. Um, we were, Ben and I were at the same conference together and he had just read one of my books and it like, um, it impacted him. And so we were able to meet and. We connected as friends. We stayed close after that and then he wanted to switch from like just being like the football guy, like God has done such a cool thing in his life, like God is he's dude legitimately like one of the best dads and husbands I've ever met.
Like quiet like you in the quietest places where nobody would know. I've seen that guy be so. Amazing. As a husband and dad, I look up to him a lot in those areas. But anyway, so he wanted to talk more about like this kind of stuff like life and not just football. And so he's like, dude, why don't you come on?
We'll shift the gear of football into like more like life stuff and faith and not just football. So we still talk football, but I. I mean, speaking of getting haters, the Pittsburgh Steeler fans are like, who's this freaking guy? You know, this guy doesn't know anything about about football. You know, it's, it's hard to sit next to Ben,
dude.
Uh, yeah. That's
awesome. And then there's a third one.
Yeah. Yeah. So I just, uh, I just signed on with Caleb, the Access More Network, which I think this. Podcast is not a part of it.
No, it's not. It's not, it's not currently with
Access More, sorry. Darn it. Speaking of Stephen and stuff, uh, yeah, no, but I signed on with them.
We're gonna do a, um, a daily devotional for men, so five minutes a day. God's word real short, just like as guys are commuting to work. Great idea. Just jumping to God's word for five minutes. Great idea. That's
awesome. Yeah. And so is that out already?
No, no, no. We're trying to get all that loose ends of that tied up and hopefully by the end of the year, but, but dad
tired.
People can listen to wherever they listen to podcasts. Obviously you're listeners are listening to this episode already, wherever they listen and then the football and episodes come out. How often.
They're, they'll, they'll be whenever the right after whatever the game was. So most likely Mondays, but could be Tuesdays depending on Monday night games and, and your podcast for our listeners.
Yeah, my podcast comes out every Wednesday. Um, and so, um, yeah, it's, we're having a blast doing it. And, and I do have to, as we close out. I have to encourage, thank you for your encouragement because you know, with, I've got a lot of stuff on my plate with the music and I've got a management company, a lot of things going on.
And so sometimes with the podcast it's like, man, I really love doing this, but I, I don't wanna do anything unless I can do it to excellence. You know? And so I think there was a moment there where I was sort of like going, do I keep this going? And, uh, you stepped in with some really timely encouragement to, to keep going.
So this was really fun to be able, we should do this again. I'd love to do this in person. Have you come to Nashville? And hang here at the Storyhouse. I was trying
to come to Nashville, dude. I got, I was looking for an excuse to get over there. Do next time. Well, we'll plan it
farther in advance when we've got some more time to hang.
We can go have a meal and, uh, man, I'm just glad we got the chance to do this today, and congrats on, and, and the books. Where can people find out about your books?
Yeah, dude, Amazon, that's like the number one. I mean, they're in all the bookstores, but you know, like Amazon's the best place that should be.
But if they type
in your name. Or what
if you type in dad tired, pretty much every, everything, all the books come up. Yeah, books come up, and websites and speaking. Podcast, all of it,
dude, what you're doing matters. What you're doing is making an impact. Speaking of words of affirmation, I'm gonna leave you with that, man.
I appreciate it. Like you're, you're crushing it. You've been an encouragement to me, you're an encouragement to a ton of dads out there, and apparently you're an encouragement to Ben Roethlisberger, which that's pretty cool too. So, uh, but dude, thanks for hanging with me today. I think our listeners, both of our, uh.
Listeners. Well hope that didn't sound right. That implies that you and I each only have one listener. No, that's probably
true. The two people listening to this. Mom, thank you for down both
sets of listeners I think are gonna enjoy this conversation. I'm glad we got to do this. Thanks about brother. Me too, bro.
Yeah, me too, man. Thank you so much.