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Are you a passionate veterinarian seeking to elevate your practice and make a lasting impact in the field?
Welcome to "The Vet'Ed Podcast". Join Steven Hermann, Kale Flaspohler and Lindo Zwane - industry experts and thought leaders, as they delve into tailored strategies and nurturing relationships to empower privately owned veterinary practices.
Tune in the first and third Wednesday of the month to gain invaluable insights, tips, and inspiration to thrive in your independent clinic. Together, let's build a community dedicated to advancing veterinary care. Subscribe now and embark on a journey towards lasting success in your practice.
Steven Hermann (00:00)
Hey everybody, this is Steven Herrmann with the Vetted Podcast and I am very excited to have with me Karyn Buxman who we met almost a decade ago. And hey, I wore the Mizzou shirt today, know, we're fellow Mizzou alums and had a tough loss against Alabama this past weekend. This podcast might be a week or so behind that, but anyways, having a good football program.
fun sports program and pretty partial to Mizzou. You've had children that have lived here in Columbia, Missouri. So a lot of connections we have going on. So we're very excited about that. so let me introduce you the proper way, right? Let's do a little bit that, get that out of the way here. All right, Karyn Buxman, RN, MSN, CSP, CPAE is a TEDx speaker, Hall of Fame Humorous and Nurse.
Herne Neurohumorous, who lives at the intersection of humor and the brain. A global authority on applied humor, Karyn has spoken for organizations such as the Mayo Clinic, NASA, and the US Air Force. Her mission, to help healthcare professionals, including veterinarians, pretty important for this one, right? Use humor as a strategic tool to reduce stress, improve communication, and build resilience. She's serious about humor and passionate about helping healers heal themselves. M-I-Z.
Karyn (01:15)
COU.
Steven Hermann (01:16)
All right, that's awesome. What a resume. I knew when we met a long time ago, it's had that like, you know, we was reconnected recently, right? It was just that reconnect recently. And like I said, awesome book here. Lead with Levity, right? I mean, great, this is your book. You wrote some wonderful words in here. I have kept this in my nightstand. I like to find inspiration in it. And so,
In my turning point in my own career, right, selling a business and starting a software business, I was like, I just kind of reached out to people I met in the past and I was like, just a great time to connect. And especially with what's going on in the veterinary space. Like after a decade of experience of veterinarians on my side, coaching, consulting, and helping them start businesses, I was just like, you always need that extra spark.
I can deliver numbers, I can deliver business plans, give some inspiration, but sometimes it's like, you just need that extra expert. And just like looking at your book, like, I think you have this like missing link to what that could be and that neuro humorist and that we're gonna get into that people are gonna walk away from. So, Karyn, again, awesome to have you on today.
Karyn (02:24)
Thank thank you. So happy to be here. We got lots to talk about.
Steven Hermann (02:28)
We do have lots to talk about and it's gonna be really good. Goal today is for the listener to end up with some actionable items today, right? What are a few things they could do to improve what they have going on? At the end of the day, we believe that you need help too. It's helpful to have someone to help you be accountable, actionable on those things. So Karyn has a great business that can provide that too. We'll talk about that at end of the talk today.
Let's get into some questions here, right? Neurohumorous, I would say, is probably a new term to a lot of people, right? So when you think about neurohumorous, can you define that? What is that, what inspired you to become a neurohumorous? So a couple different nuances there, right? Give me a definition of why, why neurohumorous?
Karyn (03:11)
Neuro humor, you know, I actually started my journey with humor at the University of Missouri.
was teaching in nursing and enjoying that and wanted to continue my education. So went back to grad school, had to do a research project, was looking at something focused on adolescent adults and eating behaviors and stumbled across a little article about a nurse researcher who had researched humor. And it was just like this whack upside the head. And I will tell you that there was a moment where I was thinking, my gosh, I could study something interesting
and fun and this wouldn't be so painful over the next two and a half years. And so it was the idea of fun and entertainment that brought me in. But it was the power of humor that has kept me there for over 30 years now. And it is so powerful. just, I don't get why people aren't just on their rooftops shouting about this. So I'm doing that for them. I dissect humor so you don't have to.
Steven Hermann (03:50)
Hehehehehe
Yeah, I love it.
Why aren't people shouting it? I'm gonna ask you that question. Why?
Karyn (04:16)
And yeah,
the last 10 years was also this deep dive. We have changed our technology.
We've known forever that humor is a whole brain process, but with our digital tools, are analog tools. We weren't really able to understand a lot of it, but now that we have the digital mechanisms that we have, we can understand so much more. When you look at that intersection of humor in the brain, it gives us not only the power to make people laugh, but to influence them and to improve their health and wellbeing. And that's what I'm all about.
Steven Hermann (04:54)
It gives us energy too, right? Like your own personal self. It's not just the person you're across from or the room you're with. It gives you that energy, the positive thing. How many muscles does it take to smile versus frown? Is that kind of like, know, maybe a little bit, know?
Karyn (05:08)
That is true and and that's part of the concept that people think when I talk about humor or they read about humor in the workplace they they kind of Just laugh it off a little bit. No pun intended, but they think it's about Laughter they think it's about comedy and one of my greatest insights over my decades of research was that
Entertainment is what we typically think of as the purpose. With the success of that, how do we measure our success? It's by making the other person laugh. But I recognize there were two other purposes. One, as I mentioned, influence. One, as I mentioned, well-being. And when we influence others, whether that's persuading them, negotiating, inspiring, educating, all of those different things that take place in a veterinarian's
life and in their livelihood, we're not measuring the success of humor by how much we make the other person laugh. We're looking at what is the quality and quantity of those relationships and did we achieve our desired outcome. And in terms of wellness, again, the success isn't how much we made another person laugh. It's about...
you know, where are we or that other person on the spectrum in terms of our wellness and our health and our happiness? And this is a very holistic look at that. And again, it's not about being funny. It's about being funny, having that filter that allows us to really leverage laughter and harness humor.
Steven Hermann (06:35)
Okay.
Is a breakdown, kind of breaks someone down too a bit, right? It kind of lets them be more honest, more open, right? And you get that laugh out of somebody where they're able to have a better relationship in the workplace too. Is that that big part of it?
Karyn (06:57)
Yeah, we see today from a brain perspective that people are... I use this metaphor that people's brains are on fire. But our brains number one purpose is to keep us safe, keep us alive. And so it's constantly searching for threat and it focuses on that. It's wired for that.
But we reinforce that with whether it's the news, drama, political climates, global climates, climates in your household, whatever it may be. The more we do that, the more we wire our brains to see threat.
Steven Hermann (07:33)
Yeah.
Karyn (07:40)
And when we're in that space, resistance goes up. And that might be resistance between wanting to communicate with another person, to have a relationship with another person, even to help another person. I think something that to me was so telling is that with increased pressure in our lives, we squeeze out any room in our cognitive
functioning part of our brain, our executive functioning. And so it has the effect of making us dumber. It can drop our IQ points. It can make us less likable, less appealing. But I think even more important for veterinarians is that it also squeezes out our ability to be empathetic and to be compassionate and to practice self-care.
Steven Hermann (08:31)
Hmm.
Karyn (08:31)
It's not that you don't want to be. It's that we honestly cannot see those opportunities even if they're wiggling in our face. And it's nothing about desire. It's just that our brain doesn't have the room in that cognitive part. So how can we give your listeners and your viewers tools to help them
recapture that resilience, recapture that problem solving ability and creativity and recapture that empathy and compassion and even love for self because we know that you look at the numbers there are way too many veterinarians we've lost because life just got too hard and they didn't have
Steven Hermann (09:17)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Karyn (09:22)
the capacity to navigate the hard times.
Steven Hermann (09:25)
That's a saturated sponge. You can't hold any more water. what you're saying here, humor can help wring some of that sponge out. Provides some space, helps process, as you've said, stress, trauma, and compassion fatigue. You mentioned that in our conversations, compassion fatigue. And I think that that's one of the top terms in veterinary space is compassion fatigue.
Karyn (09:28)
It is a saturated scrub.
Steven Hermann (09:51)
And so as you look at that and think about it, as you got, this is science back too, right? I think we're talking to scientists here. mean, veterinarians are scientists. They like science, right? It's like, they're saying in business, it's like, well, they go, where's the science based on that? it's just, over time, these averages worked out, right? It's kind of like science, but it's not exactly like science. It doesn't prove out the same way. So, you know, thinking about that, what?
Karyn (09:58)
All of
Steven Hermann (10:16)
In your experience, what are some stories or success stories you've seen where that sponge is full? How is someone used to, how do they get that space back? What do they do in your years of experience?
Karyn (10:30)
Yeah.
You know, so much of what we see in terms of the overwhelm, the stress, the strain is from a gap. The gap between expectations, the way we thought things would be, what we visualize what life was going to be like, what being a veterinarian would be like, and the reality. And we look for ways to close that gap. And
Steven Hermann (10:49)
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (10:56)
There's lots of part of that is planning in millimeters and looking at the reality and looking at, know, are these expectations realistic? How do you want to deal with them? But in terms of humor, there's I've looked at four primary ways that this has helped people in general. And one is distraction. Now, I'm not saying go put your head in the sand.
Steven Hermann (11:22)
Hehehehe
Karyn (11:22)
However,
there are times where things are just out of our control. We don't have the capacity to change things. You can be sitting on the freeway in a gridlock and stuck, and you can either be putting yourself in more of a brain threat and
having this wonderful cascade of neurotransmitters that is going to increase your cortisol and increase your epinephrine and inflammation and cloud your judgment and all of that. That's why, know, next thing you know you're involved in road rage. Or you can practice humor visualization. This is something you're not doing for anybody else, you know. It's this distraction of looking for things
Steven Hermann (11:51)
Those stupid drivers that caused this to...
Hey.
Karyn (12:09)
that are amusing to you, whimsical to you, because all we need is a brain break. We don't, we don't, I mean, the more and the longer we experience the humor, great, but sometimes it only takes a few moments to just snap us out of that or kind of wring the sponge a little bit. And so maybe that is tuning into a radio satellite channel that's comedy. Maybe it's.
phoning a friend, maybe it's reminiscing about humorous stories in your mind, but that little bit of distraction, the body can't tell the difference between something that's actually happening and what you're imagining in terms of the physiology where this is involved. And so if you are distracting yourself with a bit of humor, you've given yourself a brain break until you have the ability to take some kind of action. Another is reframing.
and reframing is really important. We know that that's probably our most powerful psychological means of seeing things in a different way so that again, we can solve a problem or we can act upon it. But it also takes up the most energy in our brains in terms of coping mechanisms.
And so the brain is a little resistant to that. The brain is lazy. The brain is like a stream. It wants to take the easiest path, you know? And so the cool thing about humor is that humor is taking disconnected, disassociated dots and putting them together. It's reframing them in a way that amuses and delights us. But the more you do that,
Steven Hermann (13:32)
Okay.
Karyn (13:48)
the more neuroplasticity you create and that reframing comes easier. I grew up in Missouri and I remember when I was eight years old and I'm out raking leaves with my dad and my brother and we're having a fun time and as a joke I grabbed my dad's glasses and I...
perched them on my nose and I was walking around with my nose up in the air and I looked up and I said, my gosh, look, there's an airplane. And my brother said, so what? And I said, well, you can hear them, but you can't usually see them. And my dad looked at me and he pulled off the glasses and he goes, yeah, you can. And that's how the next day I ended up in Dr. Plowman's ophthalmologist office. And when I walked out with my
stylish cat eye tortoise shell colored glasses. I'll tell you, I looked around and I was stunned because the red building we'd walked into had bricks and the green tree that was overshading our car had leaves. And I was seeing all these things that were there all the time, but I hadn't.
Steven Hermann (14:41)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Karyn (15:00)
seen them because I didn't have the right lens. And the more we practice this, the more we rewire, the more our brain shows us these opportunities. Because I'll tell you, Steven, so many times people say, but you don't understand, there's nothing funny happening in my life. And what I want to tell you from a neuro humorous point of view is that there are opportunities for humor around you every day.
Steven Hermann (15:02)
Hmm.
Karyn (15:26)
but your brain isn't showing them to you because it's too full, it's saturated. So how can we do that? Reframing.
Steven Hermann (15:33)
Yeah, they-
Yeah, Karyn, I think I can hear the objections, right? To what, know, the objection, we all have them and it's, well, if you're saying the sponge is over saturated and I'm a veterinarian, I own my business, how am I even gonna take time to do this? if I've heard from you from the beginning, you're going, if you got this offensive mechanism already up in your brain, your processing power has decreased.
You don't think you can take on more. And it's maybe that you can take on more and that saturated really is more because of you can't hold more to a degree or you're not holding as much as you think actually, right? You think your sponge is saturated, but maybe it's not. Am I saying that right? Is that crude way of me interpreting the expert here?
Karyn (16:15)
and people.
I think that I think you're right. And I think that there is that resistance, that pushback, because don't want to. I'm going to pause here.
Steven Hermann (16:23)
Uh-huh.
Yeah, you're good.
Karyn (16:29)
Hello?
Steven Hermann (16:29)
You're good,
we can come back onto that.
Karyn (16:32)
because we get that pushback, we get that resistance because it's a little bit more energy in our brain or it takes practice to rewire our brain a little bit until we can't create a new habit in our brain until we cut off.
Steven Hermann (16:36)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Karyn (16:49)
past neuro pathway and create a new one. And so there's that little bit of resistance and it's like, ⁓ that's going to take time. ⁓ that's going to take energy. I don't have the time. don't, you but if, if we look at, but what's the payoff if you can, if you can recapture that cognitive capacity, if you can get back that problem solving ability, if you can get back that empathy, if you can get back that compassion, if you
Steven Hermann (17:02)
So what's the payoff?
Karyn (17:16)
make those connections with other people because as you and I were talking at another time, one of the things that we noticed in terms of relationships and isn't a veterinarian business all about relationships is that so often every minute and we miss cues from other people. We overlook
Steven Hermann (17:30)
Every every minute
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (17:38)
what's important to somebody or we might miss something that would really help us solidify that connection lower that other person's resistance so that they can hear what it is that you're recommending or the treatment that you're suggesting or being co-creators in the care for their pet. But what is going on in your brain is also going on in their brain. And so
I mean, you think about when somebody brings in their pet, is AKA a member of their family. I remember my sister when she was also living in Missouri during a winter evening, was in a car accident and had a head injury and they took her to the ER.
Steven Hermann (18:10)
Right. Yeah.
Karyn (18:25)
And she kept saying, ⁓ my son, my son, Sam, where's Sam? Where's my son? And they thought she had a child. They went back looking in the snow. And a family member got there and said, no, that's her dog, Sam. And she was having. So I mean, this is a family member. And when they bring their family member to you,
Steven Hermann (18:43)
It is.
Karyn (18:46)
their brain also is on fire. They are also not hearing you or connecting with you or seeing those cues or clues. And so how can we create an environment where we can leverage that? And at the peak of a crisis, I teach lots of humor classes on this, but in effect, you know, the humor can fall flat. So it's not that I'm saying this is for every single moment. This is not
Steven Hermann (18:49)
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Karyn (19:13)
the universal cure. But just like you have many tools that you use to care for pets, this is a tool that you keep in your tool belt because sometimes it's going to be not just the right tool, but the best tool or the most important tool you can use.
Steven Hermann (19:30)
I like you said, the payoff. You talked about that's what we're looking for and the end in mind, like why? And there is a payoff. You said it's the energy that you're gonna gain from reconnecting things in the brain and being able to handle more than you ever thought possible. And you talked about the relationships that are involved and you talk about clients, team and self. It's all those things.
If we look at, yeah, clients that come into the veterinary practice with their animals, one of the biggest things they have a tough time with is the price. The veterinarian has a tough time with price of services. Maybe not the client, but the veterinarian does because they are, the animal can't pay the bill and they want to fix the animal. And so, yeah, I think how can, how can,
not that you're humorous in this, it could be sick animal, what not, how does that apply? Like what does that do for you in that situation? And I'm trying to say it this way because I know my veterinarians are gonna think, right? They're like, I got a sick animal coming in, I can't be funny. And you're not saying that at all. You're not saying that at all. Yeah.
Karyn (20:32)
I'm not saying yes, and I'm
so glad you brought this up. This is is this is such an important point I mentioned Distraction I I mentioned reframing another is resilience because when you Have that gap in this case. It's I want to I want to take care of this animal. I want to
fix this animal, whatever that is, and here's reality. And the gap is they can't afford it. And what does that do to how I feel? And when you are in that state, you are, again, now we're creating that cascade of neurotransmitters that are really wearing on you. They wear on your mental health, your physical health, your...
your psychological, your social, even your spiritual health. And so what I say in this instance isn't how to use humor to try to fix that situation because we can't fix that situation in terms of, you know, there's going to be the people who can't afford the care and that it's always going to feel horrible. But how can you use this to
Steven Hermann (21:35)
absolutely ⁓
Yes.
Karyn (21:43)
build yourself back up. know, even in that moment, it may not be appropriate to pull in to thinking about, you know, a happier memory or something to reframe. But when you go home that evening, might I suggest rather than turning on the news, more cascade of neurotransmitters that are negative.
Steven Hermann (21:47)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (22:07)
or turning on and watching Saving Private Ryan, distraction, but again, more cascade of negative neurotransmitters to bathe yourself in 22 minutes of, for me, Big Bang Theory, Modern Family, know, SNL, I mean, there's, there's, you've never had more opportunities to tap into.
Steven Hermann (22:16)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (22:30)
what amuses you. may not be something on TV. Maybe it's phoning a friend. Maybe it's looking through, you know, I'm a big fan of David Sedaris. I'll put on, you know, one of his audio books or something. But the importance is that we're doing this with intentionality and we're doing it with consistency because it is building a muscle.
Steven Hermann (22:53)
Okay.
Karyn (22:54)
It is rewiring
Steven Hermann (22:55)
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (22:56)
your brain and that's not going to happen with a one time occasion. But for those who are interested in the science, reach out to me. I'm happy to send you all sorts of research. We know that repeated use of experiencing humor yourself improves your, your
white blood cells, improves your immune system, short term, mid range, long term. It decreases inflammation in our body, which is the underlying issue for heart disease and all sorts of autoimmune diseases and endocrine diseases and things like that. It gives us back our bandwidth physically and mentally. And so in these kinds of instances,
Again, it's not about entertaining. It's not about using humor to entertain that person so that you get them laughing so hard that they don't notice that they can't afford the beer. That's not gonna happen. But in this instance, this is medicine for you. we, a merry heart doeth good like a medicine, but a brittle spirit dryeth the bones. We've known that.
Steven Hermann (23:49)
Yes, yes.
Karyn (23:59)
since biblical times. We've actually known it since before biblical times with others who have talked about how this is good medicine for the body. But we have gotten so caught up in life that is going not just 100 miles an hour, 250 miles an hour. And we don't stop, take a breath.
Steven Hermann (24:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (24:25)
Look for the whimsy around us. Look for things that make us smile. This is one of the things that I encourage people to do is to stack the deck. And what do I mean by that? I mean, put the odds in your favor. How do you increase the likelihood that you can experience more humor? For you, you may have some things in your office.
Steven Hermann (24:31)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Karyn (24:51)
that amuse you, that it may be some books, it may be some posters, it might be a bulletin board with the people and their pets, the contest, who looks most like their pet. I mean, there's all different kinds of ways that you can build these kinds of things in. The people that you hang out with, there are people who bring joy when they enter a room, there are people who bring joy when they leave it. How can you spend more time with the people
Steven Hermann (25:16)
Hmm.
Karyn (25:19)
who uplift you and kind of minimize the time with the people who drain the life out of you. But again, it's not about just solving an insolvable problem by making people laugh. It's about how do I use it for myself as medicine? Does that make sense?
Steven Hermann (25:35)
And you can't help it.
Oh yeah, you can't help anybody else out period if you're not taking care of yourself. And as a veterinarian is gonna go from that tough diagnosis to a regular exam or a new puppy in the next exam, you know, coming in, right? Where you got this happy, happy client, not a brand new puppy. I is there anything better than a new puppy? Except for the, know, peeing everywhere. you know, it's like, right? But that, that.
Joy that smile right that humor a new puppy bring just clumsy all those things show you how we're I guess that's kind of correlation We're willing to put up with a pee in our house for a short term because this little puppy is funny and exciting so I mean that's kind of like a lot of what's going on here is that a is that a another correlation at all kind of
Karyn (26:22)
I mean, you you're focusing on the positive and that is minimizing the negative. bad things are going to happen and things are going to suck. And if we only focus on those things, our brain shows us more of those things. You may be familiar with the reticular activating system. It's a little finger-like projection in the brain. And it's a filter. And the brain is nonjudgmental.
Steven Hermann (26:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Karyn (26:48)
It says, I'll show you more of what you give your attention to. So if I'm, it's like the internet. If I'm on the internet and I go to find a pair of shoes, I was on Zappos and I was like, these boots are so cute until I saw the price. And I said, I guess I'll pass on that. And I went to a different website, but on the side are those boots. And I went to another and on the side were boots and a matching purse. And I went to another and it's those boots and a purse and another pair of shoes like them. And the internet wasn't like, ⁓ I love your taste in clothing.
Steven Hermann (27:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (27:17)
The internet was you gave your attention to this. We'll show you more. And that's how your brain is. But if you're only showing your brain the negative, it'll say this is what you're interested in. I'll show you more. And this is for the people who say, but there's nothing funny happening in my life. It's all around you, but your brain isn't showing you that your brain is showing you other things. I was, I was in a dressing room.
not too long ago, trying on a pair of jeans. I never saw the woman next to me, but in the next dressing room, I heard her moan, good Lord, if this dress were any tighter, it would fit me like a mammogram. I was the funniest thing I'd heard all day and I stopped and I wrote it down. One, I heard it because my radar is always looking for funny. The other was the importance of just jotting it down.
Steven Hermann (27:59)
Hehehehehe
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (28:07)
reinforcing it and I forgot about it until a week later when I was in the bottom of my backpack and I found that piece of paper and it was like, I could relive that moment again and then put it in a place where I could capture that because sometimes going back through a journal, I call them memories of mirth. You know, I would when I remember a funny story, I have a place where I write that down.
and on those days where life is heavy or maybe I had to euthanize somebody's pet while they're just falling apart or it was too late to save another animal or somebody who just didn't have the means. mean, there's so many things that terrorize us, but to go back and have that reminiscence later at a point in time and use that as medicine because it really is medicine for the soul.
Steven Hermann (28:49)
Yeah.
Yeah, well,
you talked about the neuroplasticity and I mean, how much research is there on life expectancy? And so, you you think about that, it's like, it's a life extender. Also.
Karyn (29:06)
times.
Yes,
actually, yeah, there has been some indications because we know that inflammation, chronic inflammation can shorten telomeres. and telomeres, you know, on the edges of the cells can indicate longevity. But if we decrease that inflammation, we don't shorten the telomeres. So, you know, we might not be adding years. I tend to think we do.
Steven Hermann (29:22)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Karyn (29:38)
but we at least are not taking years away by doing that. And I talked about distraction, reframing, resilience. And one more I'd like to add is relating. And that is.
how you connect with other people. And this is good for yourself. We are social beings and when we become overwhelmed or stressed or depressed, we tend to isolate. Humor is a wonderful way to stay connected. We know that whether you're looking for a leader or a lover,
Steven Hermann (29:57)
yeah.
Karyn (30:10)
or somebody to work with. Sense of humor is a trait that people are looking for in others. We know it increases likability. We know that it can increase trust. It's like...
a puppy or a dog or a cat, know, when they are in total trust, they're flipping on their backs with their paws up in the air. Rub my belly, rub my belly, you know, and ⁓ exposing themselves. And when you think about having a really good laugh with somebody, we throw back our head. We're exposing our necks and saying I'm safe. But even with our stories, our humorous stories, especially stories that show
a little bit of self-effacing humor, a moment where you weren't perfect and perhaps did something that was laughable, you create that sense of trust. And who do people wanna work with? It's people they know, like, and trust. We can increase that likability, we can increase that trust. We actually, our brain produces...
Steven Hermann (31:10)
rust.
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (31:17)
you know, through the neurotransmitters, we produce the hormone oxytocin, which is the cuddle hormone. And we know that it's between moms and babies, but now with our science, we know that people who exchange humor also experience that exchange of oxytocin, which makes people feel bonded. And as an aside,
Steven Hermann (31:37)
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (31:38)
If for no other reason, studies have also shown people who judge someone as having a better sense of humor also judges them as more attractive, better looking, younger. Couples who experience shared humor report better relationships, stronger relationships.
Steven Hermann (31:49)
Yeah, yeah.
Karyn (31:59)
So there's so many benefits and upsides to practicing this. I'm trying to find one that would say, no, it's not worth it.
Steven Hermann (32:09)
hard. Yeah.
Karyn (32:09)
I don't think so. Yeah, you
know, as long as you are being intentional, as being mindful, some people are afraid they may cross the line or may not be seen as being taken seriously. And a lot of that is understanding, again, it's the intentionality, humor by choice, not just by chance. When is that right moment?
Steven Hermann (32:23)
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (32:32)
And the more you nurture your own sense of humor, the more authentically it will come across and the better timing and not just timing in terms of don't step on your laugh line. I'm talking about that moment in time where it is the right moment to use the humor. So it is such a powerful connector.
Steven Hermann (32:52)
Yeah. Yeah.
What's interesting, I when you're, when you meet someone, especially if you're like, I found this as, you know, trying to sell services, right, to somebody. And you get real serious a lot of times. There's not a whole lot of humor because you're nervous. And but then when that person cracks a joke, you miss it. I mean, you just completely miss that other person's joke and an opportunity to connect like you just said.
Karyn (33:17)
Right.
Steven Hermann (33:17)
And so I think that that is such a powerful thing. And that always would frustrate me like, they were joking, you know, and I took it serious, like I was being serious. So that's huge. So, wow. The discussion around all everything here, how applicable it is, how important it is. I think that if we think about what are some habits, joy, you know, what's a little bit of action plan that someone could, you know, could take away and, you know,
Karyn (33:24)
Yes.
Steven Hermann (33:43)
For instance, think that one thing came to my mind that you and I had a discussion about was we're both guilty of being too future focused a lot. That we're not spending time reflecting very well. And just off that conversation is one thing I've, I've known it about myself. I'm trying to get better, continue to work on it. But what are some things like that that you'd recommend to a listener today to say,
Yeah, you know, here's some actual things you can do simple. Trust me, right? That this will work, that yes, your sponge is full probably, but this is a chance to get some more capacity. What are we gonna do for them?
Karyn (34:20)
In terms of humor, I encourage people to give themselves permission, first of all, and even more than permission, to set up an expectation. Tap your reticular activating system and basically say to yourself, show me the funny, show me the whimsy, show me...
something amusing today and create that expectation and to be open to it. To pay that forward, to reinforce it with another shot of dopamine by doing this act of kindness by not only experiencing the humor yourself, but then sharing it with another person. I encourage folks to even have an accountability partner who's somebody that you could.
At first I thought I was doing it for them and then I realized that I was the one that's getting the most benefit was because I look for the humor to send them every day. I have a friend who she's 50 years old and has turned into a cat lady. You know, she's single, no children and her life is her cat and my goodness, is there an abundance of cat memes or what? So every day, you know, there is that exchange and what I'm doing is saying, I'm thinking of you. I care about you.
Steven Hermann (35:29)
Yeah.
Karyn (35:34)
that because I have sent you something that I know you will enjoy. To, as we mentioned earlier, to stack the deck.
to increase the likelihood. How can you manipulate your environment with things that make you laugh? our living, in our room here, I have a caricature of me. Just that cracks me up. I have things all over that are cues to remind me that reinforce this behavior. There are all sorts of opportunities in terms of classes and
Steven Hermann (35:52)
Hehehehe
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (36:09)
There's an association for applied and therapeutic humor, which is a nonprofit that I love that is a group of people who look at means of applying and implementing therapeutic humor. I have master classes that I do. And I also, for myself or others, to find somebody who you can trust. ⁓
Steven Hermann (36:32)
Hmm.
Karyn (36:33)
I think that everybody benefits at some point in their life from having a coach and or therapist. I love being a coach. I love helping people explore that gap. I also have an assessment and you've had the opportunity to take that assessment where we look at non-conscious habits of thinking because we have thousands and thousands, know, 65 to...
70,000 thoughts a day, almost all of which are non-conscious and the majority of which are negative and we're totally unaware of them. How do we recreate neural pathways so that we have thoughts that serve us instead of thoughts that sabotage us? And I can tell just by statistics and numbers that far too many
Steven Hermann (37:00)
Hmph.
Hmm.
Karyn (37:21)
veterinarians are letting their thoughts sabotage their happiness, sabotage their productivity, sabotage their life. And if I can be help, I invite people to reach out and have a virtual coffee or take the assessment. It would be my honor to serve them.
Steven Hermann (37:27)
Yes. Yes.
I'd love to see that and we're gonna, post on the website and on social media, the habit finders link and you know, anything else where we can reach out. And of course people can reach out to me to get in touch with you, but we'll have those links out there. want people to reach out cause it's interesting. I don't know how many veterinary conferences I've been to.
There's lot of negativity, you know, because they're overwhelming in different areas. Interesting, I've been to some that there isn't. It was like, it almost surprised me. I was like, wow, this is refreshing. Like these people are just doing their thing and it was totally different. So, yeah, when I'm at a, I was at a meeting and someone brought up the statistics about the...
death by suicide and Said they're in veterinary is number three and people in the room corrected them know we're number two and It's like, you know, but the way it was said was like wow you are Like yeah, this is a bad thing
I'm trying to phrase this gently, right? To not offend anybody with it. But it's almost like, wow, you don't realize, think what you're saying, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but what this is saying is that they're dwelling on that, because that came out that way. And instead of like, what can we do? I think that's what this is. Instead of what can we do, or just focus on what happened and what negative could happen, instead of what can we do?
Karyn (38:59)
And this is, there are action steps that every single person listening or watching this can take. There are opportunities to make things better. And especially if you're feeling stuck, if you're feeling overwhelmed, if some people that I speak with on a regular basis when I'm doing these assessments are describing their lives as empty.
Steven Hermann (39:13)
Mm-hmm.
Karyn (39:22)
is hopeless. It's like, like you said, there's, there's a lot of energy in our world right now that is spinning, spinning people into a negative spiral and
Steven Hermann (39:23)
Hmm. Hmm.
Yeah.
Karyn (39:35)
So don't miss the opportunity to reach out and do something for yourself because you deserve it. my goodness, you are an incredibly valuable human being and there are people and animals who need you. And so, head stop.
Steven Hermann (39:41)
Yeah. Yes.
Yes.
And we need humor, no question about it. Okay, this is the question I like to ask at the end of the podcast here is that, all right, imagine we're done. We've hit stop on the record, you know, that the computer goes down, right? And you're like a half hour later, like, I really wish I would have said.
Karyn (40:11)
Hmm, what would I say?
I, what I see most often that, I guess for lack of a better word, would say disappoints me, is that people underestimate the power of their thoughts. They underestimate the power of their humor.
And again, it's not all about humor. My business is about the power of thought and the spirit of humor. But don't underestimate the power that you have and the power to implement change and that it doesn't have to feel like a punishment. It can be fun again. It can be fun again.
Steven Hermann (40:45)
I love
that. We are so guilty of underestimating ourselves and overestimating the other person. When that person's underestimating themselves too. So that is a great point. I love that. Wow. Karyn, the timing on this can be better. We need this right now. And a place for division sells in this country right now. We need to be coming back together. And humor's a sure good way to do that. It's funny you brought up, you know,
being funny makes you better looking. You kind of look at like Jim Carrey, he's not a bad looking guy by any means, but some of the people he's dated and like have been married to, you know, you're like, what are they seeing that guy? Like he's not like, he's not the sexy guy on the People Magazine cover. You know, he's not Ryan, but, or you take like a Ryan Reynolds that's funny and pretty good looking, you're like, you son of a bitch. You know? So there's so much in your, and my mind is just, ⁓
Karyn (41:20)
You
Steven Hermann (41:33)
full of great thoughts from the conversation today. I do this podcast for people, but just like you said, I do it for me too. This really is always important to me. I get a lot out of it. I hope the listener gets a bunch out of it. And again, what's the website they can go to to find you?
Karyn (41:48)
to people to Linktree. It's linktr.ee forward slash Karyn Buxman. There's just lots of different tools and prizes of unspeakable value that they can find.
Steven Hermann (41:50)
Okay, Linktree.
Okay,
that's a great place. So then get out there and again, I'll have that, your website on my, you know, my website, my social media as we put this out and of course LinkedIn, the podcasts themselves, you'll able to find that. I did the habit finder like you said, it was insightful. I, you know, there's things that you know about yourself, right? And it just goes, yeah, okay. Yep.
It just, because it's unconscious, right? You like have that like, and when you see it, you're like, and we talked it through, like, yeah, uh-huh. So it was, it was, and what's amazing about the habit finder to listeners that it doesn't take long. It is, it's, you can, you can knock it out pretty quick and the results you get are well worth it. So, hey, I'm going to stop there unless you got something left. I'll leave you.
Karyn (42:42)
you know, more thing that I, yeah, just
to come with that about that, because you say that we so often have these insights about ourself, and there are a number of things where you were like, yeah, I knew that, or I suspected that, and then there was a few that was like, hmm. But I think that what it also helps us see is how one area of our lives impacts another, and how...
Maybe we have a frustration in one area of our lives that it's about us personally or something that's very personal to me. But then you see on the assessment, how's that affecting your ability to be empathetic to others or compassionate to others? We sometimes miss that relationship as to how all of these things tie in to one another and can can pull us down in other areas of our lives that we didn't even recognize.
Steven Hermann (43:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, we I'm sorry. It's like I tell the end of the of the podcast but the I have to think Humor is a connection everyone can can relate to We all take information differently, right? There's people that are visuals people need to see, know, it or hear it You know people do feelings in their gut how they make decisions people do analytical decisions, but really humors humor here I mean, it's very rare that it's like when there's
There's humor that people aren't laughing together, right? It's like we all can laugh together and that's an agreed upon thing. So what a connector. What a great thing. Wonderful to have you on. I really appreciate your time. I know your time is valuable and for you to spend time with a listener today, it means a lot to me. And listener, you like what we've been doing today, please like and subscribe to the channel here, The Better Podcast. I mean a lot to help spread the word. The more likes we have, it helps spread the word. You know, don't have advertisements on this.
I do this for the industry and for people and to help spread good word for those that need a different viewpoint out there. So thank you so much for your time today and wish you all the best. Thank you, Karyn.