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Lead The People is your guide to unlocking your true potential as an authentic leader. Hosted by Dr. Matt Poepsel—The Godfather of Talent Optimization—this podcast dives deep into the art and science of what it takes to lead at the next level. With insightful conversations and practical strategies, each episode equips executives, strategic HR pros, and aspiring leaders with the tools it takes to boost performance, inspire teams, and drive meaningful impact. Whether exploring the latest workplace trends or tackling real-world leadership challenges, Lead The People offers an enlightened approach to leadership. Embark on a rewarding journey to become the leader your people deserve—the leader you were meant to be.
Tyler Dickerhoof (00:00):
That's the ultimate piece is we all have things we hide. And I'm not advocating, "Hey, go vomit over whatever for everyone." My encouragement is to be authentically vulnerable. It's not that idea of, "Oh, this is who I am. Just take it. " It's like, no, I have a wooden desk. You might have something wooden in your office. Is it rough like the trees that are behind me? No. It's been milled. It's been sanded. It's same grain, same thing. So to say, "Oh, this is who I am?" No, just go sand yourself. Find people to help sand you. It's still the best of you coming out.
Matt Poepsel (00:43):
My very special guest used to believe that his net worth was derived from how much he knew. So his life was very much about convincing others he knew it all. He spent the last decade plus immersing himself in the world of personal development. And as a result, his relationships went from fracture to thriving. He's written a new book called The Things We Hide. He is Tyler Dickerhoof. Welcome to the show, Tyler.
Tyler Dickerhoof (01:02):
Oh, Matt, so good to be here with you, man. It's fun to catch up. I was able to be ... You were on my show about maybe a year ago, give or take, something like that. And so it's great to be back with you and thank you so much for having me.
Matt Poepsel (01:14):
Well, it's exciting that you've got a new book and I enjoyed being on your show and talking about ... I'm like you, I'm a personal development junkie of sorts and I needed to do a lot of work as it turns out, Tyler. But I love that we had a chance to share notes, but I'm really excited to flip the microphone around and talk to you today on my show, which is amazing. And your book's topic was spot on and I think something that not a lot of writers would have the courage to go there, but you do. So I'm ready to go there with you today.
Tyler Dickerhoof (01:40):
Well, let's do it, man.
Matt Poepsel (01:42):
I mentioned the title of the book too, which is when you think about the things we hide. And I don't know that the average leader would think that they're pretty much hiding anything. We say things like, "Oh, I'm just being professional. If I don't bring something up, I'm just trying to stay composed over here," or projecting confidence. People don't want to see any chinks in the arm or so to speak. They wouldn't respect me, something like that. What are we actually missing when we try to put on that way?
Tyler Dickerhoof (02:05):
We're missing the ability to connect with others. Well, one of the things that is very interesting in a world, if you think about the people that you connect most with, are they the people that tell you when they have all the answers or they got it all figured out or the people are like, "Man, I'm just trying. I've maybe had some success. I'm struggling forward." And not woe is me, but it's more of the classic hero and the guide. And what do they say about the guide? The guide doesn't have to know it all. The guide is just one or two steps ahead. And so for things we hide, we think that, oh, it doesn't matter. People don't know what's going on with me. And what happens though is when we hide things, we start to build walls. And so those walls affect our reaction to our fears and insecurities.
(02:56):
And so we don't think we're hiding something, but all of a sudden I become super intense. And they're like, "What are they trying to prove?" Well, am I worthy? Do I know what I'm doing? So much of our world today is like imposter syndrome. And people, I had a podcast guest, Dave Dodson. It's like, it's such a joke. If you have a role you've never done it before, you shouldn't know what you're doing. Well, ideally you want people that are learning what they're doing and not capped out. And so this idea of like, what am I hiding? Well, for some leaders, it's hiding that, can I handle this situation? Am I willing to say, "Man, I don't know the answers. Can you help me find them?" And so instead of saying, "I got to know all the answers." And so it's a lot of that hiding, or maybe it's something in your personal life, a marriage, a child, a parent, a financial situation.
(03:49):
I'll just hide it. Well, the problem is it shows up in our everything. When somebody says something to you and you're a little sharp, your tone is when all of a sudden you're like, whether it's a, "Can I go do this or can I do that? " It's like, "No, no, no, I can't." And it's like, "Hey, you know what? I'm just not in the place right now." It's just those hiding moments, again, are barriers and our ability to connect with others, and that means we can't lead them, we can't influence them and vice versa.
Matt Poepsel (04:20):
I think a lot of times we look to leaders and we respect the leaders that are confident, they seem to have it all put together. We discount what they went through when we didn't get to see them in those earlier moments sometimes. And we think that's the way we're supposed to be all the time. And I know that when I was coming up through the ranks, I thought that for sure. I thought, geez, if I show any sort of weakness or if I show any sort of vulnerability, then people aren't going to respect me, they're not going to want to follow me. And it took a lot until I basically couldn't hide it anymore. But come to find out that it did exactly what you said, Tyler, it made me more accessible to people and people were almost relieved that I was comfortable enough around them to stop hiding at least a little bit at first, right?
Tyler Dickerhoof (05:01):
Too often people are afraid what others are going to think of them. And so if I tell you what I don't know, then other you're saying, "Well, you can't do the job. You don't have value." Instead of saying, "I don't know, " is a good thing because then you're not faking. "Hey, just tell me what you don't know. Then we can work through it. If I don't know what you don't know, then I can't help you solve the problem. "And again, this all comes back to this idea of what we hide creates a limitation on our ability to influence others to lead, whether that's just by having a leadership role or by performing. So if we're hiding them, I don't know how to make a sales call, but I go out and fake it, or I think you think that I fake it. Am I serving the client?
(05:42):
No. Am I serving the business? No. Instead of saying," Man, I don't know what I'm doing. "And as you kind of mentioned, the people that do that, we gravitate to as opposed to the people like, " Nope, I don't need your help. I got it all figured out.
Matt Poepsel (05:55):
"Yeah. I think that it's also true that we think we're hiding. We convince ourselves," Yeah, pulled that off. Nobody knew. "But the reality is they know. And if they don't directly know, they can sense enough. I think people are a lot more perceptive than sometimes we give them credit for. So I think it's all the more reason to say this topic that you're writing about, which is at the core talking about the things we hide, I think it does cause a real detriment. You're talking about relationships, you're talking about performance. It's all in there.
Tyler Dickerhoof (06:23):
What's interesting is as much as I've walked through this and I talk to people about it, is we think we're good at hiding it, but the moment we say," Hey, excuse my insecurity, man, I don't think I belong here, "they're like, " Oh, okay, that's why you're showing up the way you are. "That's why you respond and you either check out because you want the acceptance, but you're masking it, you're super intense and you're just a bulldozer and people are like, " Why has it got to be so hard? "Just chill, relax, let's do this together. So everyone knows how it shows up. They just don't know why often.
Matt Poepsel (07:01):
Yeah. And your relationship with this topic though, really, you could trace it all the way back. Your backstory is deeply personal and your professional heights that you've hit as well really give you this rich backdrop. But my question for you, Tyler, based on all that you had experienced, when did it occur to you that this thinking of, well, it's just who I am that was actually, to use your terminology, was a wall that you had constructed yourself.
Tyler Dickerhoof (07:26):
Yeah, I'm a person of faith, a Christian faith. And to me, God exposed it to me. And that was a moment. I'm sitting in the gym locker room. It was about 10 years ago now, and we had owned another gym and we had just employee issues. They were young, first couple job out of college. And one time there was an employee, they called off sick. Okay, no big deal. And part of their role was as well a trainer but to clean the gym. And so they're sick, I go clean the gym and I show up and there they are working out with their friends. And I was frustrated because they lied to me. And if they would've said, Hey, can I work out? Absolutely. But just I went and did your job, right? Take the ownership, be a responsible employee. Well, they just didn't know.
(08:10):
They were young. They were avoiding me the truth for whatever reason. And so that was the backdrop of what was going on at the time. And I sit down on the bench after working out and I'm drinking my protein shake. This is how you deal with things. And it was essentially at that moment it said, you either get with the program or get going, this super intense, almost borderline insensitive because I wasn't going to let them walk all over me. Then it transposed me back to a time in my life where I realized that that response to hard things is what I started to go to. And when I was 14, I had a younger brother die in a farming accident. I was 14, he three and I drove over. And in the moments after that, the emergency personnel show up, sheriff is questioning me, grilling me and just question after question after question.
(08:57):
All I know is it was an accident. I saw him, I waved, I turned around, it was an accident. And eventually I get fed up of getting grilled. So I turn to the guy just as much as I'm looking, the camera straight and I'm like, "I'm done answering your questions. So this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to go in that barn. I'm going to milk those cows. If you want to come with me, great. If not, see you. " So the moment in the gym transported me to that and it was there realizing, oh, that's how I deal with things, just my intensity. Just put my head down and push. And what's interesting is that intensity is a part of me, just personality. And so too often you can be like, "Oh, you just have to deal with, that's who I am." And I asked a coach of mine that I had, and this was about that scene period about 10 years ago, I said, "Hey, what was I like before my brother died?" They're like, "Oh, you're high energy, but you're likable, fun." And then after that, you're intense.
(09:58):
And I remember, as I was telling this story earlier, you'd come home from college, maybe on leave. And I remember doing that one year, and we're at a bar or restaurant or something, and I'm talking to some of my high school classmates, and I didn't go to college with any of them. I was six hours away, and they're just like, "You're just intense, intense." And so whether I realized or not, that just became my personality, which is great when you want to get stuff done. But all of a sudden, what it did is it created such a barrier between myself and others because the bar of expectation was so high that people never felt like they could measure up. And the reality is the expectation levels on me, not others, but they felt it. And so the lack of vulnerability, the lack of displayed empathy to say, "Hey, you're all right.
(10:46):
Let's just get this together." One of the pieces that I didn't layer in that was kind of defining that moment with our employee of the gym is we had brought on a partner to help be more of a mentor. And unfortunately, this young guy saw it as a competitor. He was going to get replaced. So his response to that was actually backing way, causing problem like, "I'm just going to check out. " Again, a response to his insecurity of, "Am I good enough to be a part of this business?" And so you have both people whose displayed insecurities were clashing.
Matt Poepsel (11:25):
Yeah. It becomes those routines that we go to because they either have worked for us in the past, maybe they got us results, they may make us feel safe, they make us understand, "Oh, this is how the world works." But at some point when they stop serving us, it can be really hard to surface those limiting beliefs and really liberate ourselves from them. So I give you a ton of credit for overcoming and learning from these different experiences and seeing that and having had enough. It sparked you to go on this journey. And I appreciate you sharing all these stories with us. It really helps us get a glimpse of something that I think we can all relate to, which is that we all hide. Listen, can we just say that? Can we normalize that, please? We all hide. It's okay. What's not okay is to allow it to get in the way of our relationships, how we show up for others, and certainly how we serve.
Tyler Dickerhoof (12:15):
That's the ultimate piece is we all have things we hide. And I'm not advocating, "Hey, go vomit over whatever for everyone." No, that's a bigger problem. That toxic vulnerability, and my encouragement is to be authentically vulnerable, be you. Don't be a chameleon. Don't be what people think you need to be, but that doesn't need to mean you do need to be an a- hole. It's not that idea of, "Oh, this is who I am. Just take it. " It's like, no, I have a wooden desk. You might have something wooden in your office. Is it rough like the trees that are behind me? No, it's been milled, it's been sanded, it's same grain, same thing. So to say, "Oh, this is who I am." No, just go sand yourself. Find people to help sand you. It's still the best of you coming out.
Matt Poepsel (13:01):
That's leading by example too. I think you wouldn't want somebody on your team who was feeling that they're hiding, hoping to God that somebody doesn't find out. If everybody knew it would be a real problem for me. You're like, "I don't want you carrying that. How can I create safety in your own time that you're able to, maybe not fully disclose as you said, but sand yourself a little, show something." It brings that sort of connection. You need that, especially in this environment we're in now. We need each other because the challenges loom so large. But I want to shift here real quickly because you used the term barrier, you've used the term walls, which I love. And I know that the spine of your work comes down to four walls specifically. I wonder if you could just name them for us. Give us the high level of each of these walls because I think it's really powerful to get that mental model.
Tyler Dickerhoof (13:50):
Yeah. I've kind of tiptoed a little bit. One of them is intensity. And I describe that as a kind of, I'm going to push through the wall. I'm a bulldozer. I'm just going to ... Bulldozers move ground, but they leave carnage. And so it's kind of like the lights that I have, the lights you have, it serves a purpose that's great. But at three o'clock in the morning, if I come flip on the lights in your bedroom, you're like, "Make it stop. There's no place for it here." That's intensity. One of the other ones is isolation. And isolation is kind of like, I'm just going to disappear. I'm going to go be on my own. I'm going to totally avoid like it never even. In that point of isolation, people end up being alone. And there's thing about it being along island. If you feel alone on an island, you marooned yourself.
(14:34):
Lifeboat's sitting there. You just chose not to get in the boat. The next one is inactivity. This we see a lot of times in workplaces and I know what to do. I don't want to do it. I don't want to have the hard conversation. One of the things that's come up recently is so often we don't let an employee go or we don't put them on a performance improvement plan. We don't want to have to deal with a ramification. We don't want to get sued because they get fired. So we just let them be. Eventually they'll quit. It's kind of like a client who is very hard to deal with and instead of firing them, you'll say, "Hey, maybe they'll become someone else's client. We won't have to deal with them." That's inactivity. The last one is insensitivity and it's just being a jerk. It's, "I don't care about what you're going through.
(15:24):
I don't care about your problems. I don't care about your limitations. Figure it out and do it. " And I kind of alluded to that earlier in the situation I was in. It's like, no, there is no reason. This is the expectation. If you can't do it, then there's something wrong with you. Instead of saying ... We saw this during COVID a lot like, "Hey, I need help with healthcare, childcare. I can't come to the office. My kids aren't in school. Too bad. Figure it out. Get your butt in the office." That doesn't work. It doesn't serve people. So those four walls, as I found, I've gone through periods of all of them showing up. And I think that kind of happens. I think, I don't think it's absolute, but as I go through these conversations, it's like people are like, "Yeah, I can see all four of those." Well, it's a house.
(16:11):
And at first I thought, man, we can take down those walls. Nope. Those walls will always be there. Because it's how we respond to our fears and insecurity. Don't even realize, because you mentioned this earlier, at one point it worked and that was the greatest problem because then we keep going to it. Keep going to it. In my book, what I've created, it's called an insecurity impact assessment. And it helps you identify which wall do you lean against? I've also some people sit in the corner. It's insensitive and intense. It's inactive and isolation. It's kind of, well, that's where I go. That's where I find comfort. The reality is the walls will never disappear, but we can put windows in our walls. All right, we need to have that conversation. I know it's hard, but here's what's going to happen. We're either going to grow or we're going to go.
(16:59):
So let's have the conversation. It's going to be beneficial in a way. And addressing it in those manners and calling out, it's like, I don't want you to sue me. I have to be careful how I do this. I have a lawyer here so that way I don't do something stupid and you feel protected. That's just calling it out instead of like, "Man, I don't want to have the conversation." You understand that it's playing out. The way for us to develop relationships is to ask people that are sitting outside of our house. What do you see through the window? How do I show up to you? Because unfortunately people will say, "Hey, look in the mirror." The mirror's a liar. The narcissist has a house lined with mirrors. Everywhere they look, I'm perfect. I'm good. I'm doing everything right. And I learned this through a period of recording videos and I had someone tell me I was recording and it said faith and love behind me, but they were backwards.
(17:49):
And the person's like, "Those are such powerful words, but they're backwards. Oh, I need to mirror my camera." Oh, I didn't like mirroring my camera because I looked ugly. That isn't what I was used to looking at in the mirror. "Hey, Tyler, that's what everyone else sees.
Matt Poepsel (18:03):
"Yeah. And I think it's also great advice. So a couple things. I think that there's energy that comes from that insecurity. And so when we find that we get promoted because we're a certain way, your intensity has got you noticed, you're a high riser, you're an achiever. And so you're like, " Yeah, because that's where a lot of my source of power comes from, but it can be overdone or it can be the place where I hide. "The other part is that I love this idea about putting windows in our walls. And what occurs to me is that, does it make sense to do that and ask that question differently for maybe somebody who's more senior to you? Let's say, should I go to the CEO and ask that question and also to a peer and also to a direct report because maybe I show up differently or I hide differently in those different contexts.
(18:49):
Is that making some
Tyler Dickerhoof (18:50):
Sense? Oh man, you hit on a point that I kind of discuss a little bit in the book and is, yeah, we do. We show up differently in those situations. Now, some of that is normal. A lot of it is quote unquote becoming the chameleon. And so you have to come to grips with that. There's a point of I need to show up so the best of myself brings out the best in others, but there's a problem. If I tell you, if I say this, "Oh, show up your best." Does that make sense to you? It seems pretty benign. And I've heard that from people. And last year, as I was digging into the writing phase of this, I was like, "Man, people say, Oh, be your best. What the heck does this mean? Help me understand. The B is be aware. What are you great at, man?
(19:33):
What do you do well? That's enough. That's E. And then the S is use that to serve. Last is timing. And I teach this story based on what John Wooden used to do with his basketball teams. So the classic everyone knows he'd teach them how to put on their socks. Then he would go watch them play. And he'd watch where players shot the ball well and what they did well on the court. And then he'd stop everyone and say, Hey, when Bill gets the ball here, he shoots. And when you get the ball here, you pass it to him or you shoot. And that's the whole understanding of be aware, not only for yourself, but others. And that's enough. You don't have to do more. Swen Nater was nominated to the basketball Hall of Fame and never started a collegiate basketball game. Was a rookie of the year for the ABA.
(20:23):
You know why? Bill Walton was in front of him. Bill Walton might've been one of the greatest centers besides Wilt Chamberlain ever to play, nominated the Hall of Fame. Great player. You do what you do. Your job is to make Bill better. Once a lot of championships. And so it's kind of like taking that understanding of bring out the best in yourself to bring out the best in others and understanding that how do I show up differently? If I'm showing up in a way that takes away from Matt, you got to tell me. I don't necessarily know. Am I trying to be a ballhog? Stop being a ballhog. You're better as a rebounder, as an assister. It's what you're best at. No one else can do that. Great.
Matt Poepsel (21:01):
And I say it all the time. I say as leaders, we have to go first. And I think in this case, being willing to do that hard inner work, to look at asking these questions, to ask for that feedback, to demonstrate vulnerability, that's what it's going to take for your team to be at their best respectively too. So I think that if you're not willing to do that hard inner work, then why should they? And that's not going to get the team anywhere really, because it's very easy to see the faults of your teammates, for example. Oh, doesn't even realize that every time a new idea comes up, then they take us right off track or whatever it is, hypothetically, perhaps. But at the point being that it's like if you really want to understand how to raise awareness for each of us, we have to not only go through that journey, but it helps to the extent that we're comfortable to share our progress and even some areas where I've been trying to do a better job of saving my comments to the end because this is my meeting.
(21:52):
If you say that out loud and you say, and I recognize that today I didn't do that so well. This thing about that challenging client came up and I know I interjected, so I just want you to know that I'm aware of that, continue to work on it, appreciate your help.
Tyler Dickerhoof (22:04):
Everyone breathes the sigh of life and like, "Oh, he finally gets it. "
Matt Poepsel (22:09):
Yeah, and he's not perfect. He's not pretending he's perfect. I don't have to pretend I'm perfect either because if the boss can say, "Oh, they're trying to work on stuff, it's okay for me to work on stuff too."
Tyler Dickerhoof (22:18):
You know who did such an amazing job of teaching this? Alan Mulally, when he was at Ford, the red, green, yellow, if you've read American icon and he talks about, he walks into Ford and everything's perfect and everything's perfect. We're losing billions of dollars is not perfect. And it takes session after session after session until someone bravely enough says, "I got a problem." And he starts clapping over a couple sessions, then all of a sudden they come with a solution. Well, then all of a sudden, half the room's got problems. "You had the problems before. Now you got the problems now because there's that safety in it. And I think you make the point, it's so important. Go first. And I think that's where coming back to the idea of linking arms, and I define empathy as putting your arms around someone and walking with them.
(23:06):
That takes vulnerability. And if you're willing to put your arms around someone and say," Hey, I'm going to meet you where you're at. "Now, we're not going to stay here. We're not going to sit in the hole. We're going to go for a walk, but let's go together. Well, that means I have to share the say," Hey, I know what you're going through, or I don't know what you're going through. Help me understand. "And it creates that dynamic and that relationship where all of a sudden it's like, " Oh, they care about me. "When you're talking about the executive, it's like, " I'm working on doing a better job of listening and not coming up with solutions. "They're like, " Oh, the dude actually cares. She cares. "Instead of thinking," Oh, I have to show up like I have all the answers because that's what we expect to look.
(23:46):
"No, no, no, no, no. There's too many things in the world you can't know at all.
Matt Poepsel (23:50):
Well, let's say I got a listener that's hearing this and saying," You know what? I suspect that there are some areas that I'm erecting these walls. I'm not showing up fully the way that I would like. "What's the best first step that they can take to start to move in the right direction here, Tyler?
Tyler Dickerhoof (24:04):
That's it. That's it. Understanding that something's there. And then it really starts to ... And I walk through this in my community, it's like identify that insecurity. What is it? Am I enough? Do I have value? Okay. I found overwhelmingly that's what it is. That's everyone. Well, then how does it start to show up? And that's where the walls make sense. It's like, " Ooh, I get super intense. I get incentive, like you said. "The process then is start to understand how does that affect others? You mentioned the boardroom, classic example. When no one wants to speak up, it's your insecurity. Yours, not theirs because you're not being open to it. And so that process, and obviously I go a lot through the book. I lead my community through it, but it was just being to do the work and you have to do it on your own, but not alone.
Matt Poepsel (24:56):
Yeah. And it's such an actionable thing. It can start off to be a small thing. You don't have to be super public about it until you're ready. I love where you've landed, which is saying acknowledge, be aware, raise awareness, get more specific with it. So many great things we can be doing.
Tyler Dickerhoof (25:11):
The three pillars are my book are recognize your fears and insecurities. All have them. Live and breathing, you have them, own how they show up, and then reframe your mindsets and beliefs. Because a lot of those insecurities come back from when we were very young. I heard somebody the other day say a lot of them, fourth grade. Yeah, what we were told, and then all of a sudden we continue to rely on those, well, they manifest, they show up. I was told I was super slow at one point. I'm in a football game. I'm playing against guys that are playing college and they're like, " Holy cow, you're fast. "I'm like, " If I'm fast, you're slow. "But I trained, I'd worked and I actually developed my speed. I tell the story of a NFL player, Adam Thielen. When he was in high school, he ran a 4.94.
(25:55):
If you're familiar, it's not real fast. In his pro day after collegiate career, he ran a 4.45. That's elite because he trained. He did the work. He was willing to put in the effort. Doesn't mean everyone could do that, but he had the ability to move down. Everyone can get faster. Everyone can get better. Just own it and say," Yeah, I was slow once. Now I got to work my butt off.
Matt Poepsel (26:18):
"I think what you're teaching us too is that Alena, with a lot of the leaders who are willing to put in the work if that work is the externals, if it's the strategy, if it's the execution, no, no, no. You have to put in the work on the internals too. And I think that's like,
Tyler Dickerhoof (26:33):
That's
Matt Poepsel (26:34):
A whole nother level, right?
Tyler Dickerhoof (26:35):
What's hard?
Matt Poepsel (26:36):
Yeah. It's harder. Yeah, it's harder. It's more sensitive.
Tyler Dickerhoof (26:38):
Because of the things we hide.
Matt Poepsel (26:39):
Uncomfortable and because of the things that we hide. It's so, so true. Tyler, I love the conversation. I want to shift us here to something I always do at the end. Signature Matty P moment here. I like to have a trivia question. And we've been talking a lot about walls and erecting walls, so I thought we'd get a question about home improvement. I
Tyler Dickerhoof (26:56):
Love it.
Matt Poepsel (26:57):
Here's our question, which is in the world of home improvement, there's a very common hand tool designed specifically for driving and pulling nails. Features a flat space on one side and a curve V split on the other for prying. Is it A, a ball pin hammer, B a claw hammer, or C, a sledgehammer? That would be a
Tyler Dickerhoof (27:13):
Claw hammer, sir.
Matt Poepsel (27:14):
We're going to go with a claw hammer. So audience, you're playing along at home. What is the hammer that's designed for pulling nails and driving it? It is absolutely B, the claw hammer. Look at that, Tyler. We crushed it.
Tyler Dickerhoof (27:23):
Love it.
Matt Poepsel (27:24):
Well, I got a much better question for you there, Tyler. Where can my listeners go to learn more about you and learn all about your amazing book?
Tyler Dickerhoof (27:29):
Yeah. So first off, tylerdickerhoof.com. You can learn about my speaking, my events, my coaching as well. The things we hidebook.com. So the thingswehidebook.com. You can pre-order the book. It'll be released on June 9th. As well, if you go through that process, there's some book bundles where you can have access to a masterclass, some other bonuses. I do have an event coming up May 7th and 8th in Spokane, Washington. Having some amazing speakers talking about AI, body language, overcoming life challenges. So you can learn about that. Com.
Matt Poepsel (28:07):
Perfect. And listeners, I'm going to have those links for you in the show notes. You only one click away from getting connected with Tyler, pre-ordering his book, all that good stuff. Tyler, thanks so much for spending some time with us today, talking all about your amazing framework. I loved every bit of it.
Tyler Dickerhoof (28:19):
Thanks so much, Matt. I appreciate being here and thanks everyone for tuning in.
Matt Poepsel (28:23):
Yes, and thank you listeners for tuning in just as Tyler said. And if you have 30 extra seconds, would love a five-star rating on Spotify. I'd like to attract other great guests like Tyler to help share knowledge about all the different things that we need to know. So until next time, don't just manage the business when you can lead the people.