Let's Get Political Pt. 1: How Christians Should Talk Politics w/ PJ Pate, Jeanine Gains & Men of Faith

We’re talking about something the church often avoids… politics.

In this crossover episode (Men of Faith x Project Sisterhood), we talk about WHY political conversations are so difficult, how social media damages relationships, and why the church must lead the way in healthy dialogue — even when we disagree.

This isn’t about telling you what to think — it’s about learning how to have conversations with maturity, humility, and unity as followers of Jesus.

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If this episode encouraged you, share it with a friend and leave a review — it helps more women find Project Sisterhood 💛

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Creators and Guests

Host

Chrissy Cole

Chrissy’s parents moved to the U.S. from the Philippines in the late 70′s. She saw her parents both come to know the Lord at a young age. She and her family poured their lives into the local church and were changed by God. Chrissy attended Evangel University in Springfield, MO and earned a B.A. in Communications with an emphasis in Public Relations.

Guest

Caleb Cole

Caleb, a Sacramento native, grew up in a pastor’s home and is a third generation minister. At the age of 12, after one of his grandfather’s sermons, he felt a call from God to be a pastor. He consistently pursued that call throughout high school and college. Caleb attended Central Bible College in Springfield, MO where he earned a B.A. in Biblical Studies and went on to the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary where he earned an M.A. in Theological Studies.

What is Project Sisterhood?

Project Sisterhood is a podcast for women who want to grow in faith, find healthy community, and become who God created them to be.

Hosted by Chrissy Cole and the Project Church Sisterhood team, each episode brings honest conversations and biblical encouragement centered on identity, belonging, spiritual maturity, healing, relationships, and purpose.

With a mix of humor, vulnerability, and real-life wisdom, Project Sisterhood creates space for women in every age and stage to feel seen, strengthened, and connected—because you were never meant to do life alone.

00;00;00;01 - 00;00;19;07
Speaker 1
But we don't have conversations with people. We don't ask them, hey, why did you vote this way? Or hey, I, you posted this thing on social media and I disagree with you. Why do you feel this way? We refuse to have conversations. We see a post, we make an assumption, and we've damaged this relationship and we refuse to find out and ask about it.

00;00;19;13 - 00;00;29;00
Speaker 1
And I think that is the issue. And I feel like as the church, it's our responsibility to have these conversations. We're the ones we're supposed to be. The light on the Hill.

00;00;29;04 - 00;00;49;02
Speaker 2
You're listening to men of Faith, the podcast dedicated to calling men up and not out. Join me as we live a life dedicated to our God.

00;00;49;04 - 00;01;14;16
Speaker 3
This is a project sisterhood podcast for all things women. Whether you feel purpose for ministry, motherhood, or the marketplace, we have crucial and genuine conversations that transcend your season yet impact your true identity as a woman. From light hearted and laughable to honest, deep matters of the heart, your soul will be encouraged. We hope you and all women of every age and every stage find life and freedom in Jesus.

00;01;14;18 - 00;01;34;09
Speaker 2
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the men of Faith podcast and that's right, we are doing another Colab episode, and we're excited to have some incredible guests here with us. So I'm your host, Caleb Cole, with the Sisterhood Project Sisterhood host, Christy Cole.

00;01;34;12 - 00;01;37;05
Speaker 3
Hey, ladies. Hey, guys. And men of.

00;01;37;05 - 00;01;58;13
Speaker 2
Faith and gentlemen and I want to introduce a couple guests. They may be new to you. If you go to project church, you you probably know them. If you don't, well, you're going to get to meet them right now on this podcast. So, we'll start to my left is Janine Gaines. Janine. Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about you, what you do.

00;01;58;13 - 00;02;01;12
Speaker 2
Obviously, you're a part of our church, but what you do in life.

00;02;01;15 - 00;02;20;01
Speaker 1
Yes. Well, by showing you connect, Janine was going to go. So that's next. But what I mean. And that she she Bonnie Nagelsmann GAC. Hello friends. My name is Janine. My traditional name is miss going to Ghost, which means Red star. And I am Potawatomi from the, Citizen Band from Shawnee, Oklahoma. I am born and raised here in Sacramento.

00;02;20;01 - 00;02;43;26
Speaker 1
I've been a member of, Project Church for nine years now. I attend with my, husband David, and we have two sons, Luca and Landon. I am a, career wise, I am a, The easiest way to say it is I'm a public health communications consultant, specifically working in, underserved and diverse communities, especially like in the native community.

00;02;43;28 - 00;02;48;21
Speaker 1
Doing that, type of work. And so, yeah, super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

00;02;48;24 - 00;02;59;26
Speaker 2
Yeah, we're excited to have your perspective, which is unique. And, I don't I don't know that I've had or heard many conversations from someone who has your experience on podcasts like this.

00;02;59;28 - 00;03;20;28
Speaker 3
Wait, can we can we also, I think it's great that she introduced herself that way. But also, I think a lot of people listening know her as one of our community or one of our, community group leaders, sisterhood leaders for a long time and also serves faithfully, regularly, consistently and on the production team for years and keeps us all straight and in line backstage.

00;03;20;28 - 00;03;39;24
Speaker 3
But we love you, and we just appreciate how you've been so faithful to building relationships here in the sisterhood and and project. Church community really is your heart. So I love that you're on this podcast because your heart is for the people that we're talking to and to bring unity and to bring community. So we love you so much, Ginny.

00;03;39;25 - 00;03;40;03
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;03;40;03 - 00;03;48;06
Speaker 1
Thank you. And if you guys have seen me, usually I have a headset. I look very serious. I'm very nice. But if you guys see me on Sunday, I look very serious and I'm frowning.

00;03;48;09 - 00;03;51;04
Speaker 2
And I friendly. Hey, I appreciate it, because you keep us.

00;03;51;08 - 00;03;52;00
Speaker 3
Yes.

00;03;52;03 - 00;04;12;27
Speaker 2
And you got to get out there. And I'm never offended by it. I thank you. Tell me what to do. We appreciate you, Janine. And then we have, PJ. So PJ serves as the worship pastor at Project Church. So many of you that have attended to watch us online, you've seen him on stage, but PJ, introduce yourself.

00;04;13;00 - 00;04;30;11
Speaker 4
Oh what's up guys PJ here. Pastor Caleb said worship pastor here project for about two years now. Two years in May. I think. So yeah. Glad to be here. Glad to be on the podcast. Glad to have these incredible conversations. Glad to be with these incredible people.

00;04;30;14 - 00;04;32;08
Speaker 2
And, PJ, you've been married for how long?

00;04;32;13 - 00;04;35;21
Speaker 4
We're going to come up on four years in November. Wow.

00;04;35;21 - 00;04;37;11
Speaker 2
Married to Karina. No kids yet?

00;04;37;12 - 00;04;42;22
Speaker 4
No kids. We have a dog. We have a dog. Yeah, but that's it.

00;04;42;24 - 00;04;43;16
Speaker 2
Kind of a kid.

00;04;43;16 - 00;04;55;17
Speaker 4
Kind of a kid? Yeah. You know, good practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we've been married for four years, and my wife is Carina. Cadena Pate. And she's amazing. Is also worship leader.

00;04;55;19 - 00;05;20;15
Speaker 2
Awesome. Well, thanks for being on today. We did want to actually talk about politics. So this is something we've, we've never done in the podcast. I don't think Chrissy's ever done the sisterhood podcast. And, I think knowing both of you have experienced but also you're passionate about it, I think we've all had a lot of conversations, often in the, in the back, backstage, Janine and I are talking politics.

00;05;20;17 - 00;05;40;14
Speaker 2
PJ and PJ and I have I know Chrissy has with you guys as well. So it just got me thinking, man, these conversations are are needed to be had. And yet we're not having them in the church. So maybe we start there as to why you guys think it's just so hard for us to talk politics today.

00;05;40;16 - 00;05;45;01
Speaker 2
Even as people of faith, knowing that we do often differ in perspective.

00;05;45;01 - 00;06;07;22
Speaker 4
Yeah, I would say probably the my guess would be the majority of the reasons why we don't really have these conversations is probably fear of offending people, not wanting to ruin relationships or anything like that because, politics, these conversations about them tend to be kind of heated, especially, you know, how close you are to situations and stuff.

00;06;07;22 - 00;06;21;01
Speaker 4
So I think sometimes people are afraid to speak up and maybe even sometimes they don't really have that strong of opinion, or they probably don't even think that hard about politics or even aware of it. So they kind of choose to stay out of it.

00;06;21;01 - 00;06;46;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. And just for background, I mean, you grew up here in Sacramento. Obviously have, roots, your tribe in Oklahoma. Right. But PJ grew up in North Carolina. I grew up in Sacramento as well. So Jeannie and I have that in common. And then Chrissy grew up in Illinois. So I do think we have, you know, some differing even upbringings and experiences, which I thought was was good and positive, too.

00;06;46;02 - 00;07;03;11
Speaker 2
We got East Coast, Midwest, West Coast. So, Jeannie, what about for you? You know, when it comes to this conversation, I know you're in the midst of it more the political world, even with your job. But, as you talk to people of faith, why do you think these conversations are actually important?

00;07;03;13 - 00;07;22;29
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I think that overall politics has become more and more polarizing. Like, I used to love politics, like when I was in high school and college. It was exciting. You know, it was funny. I remember my, one of my teachers in high school was like, politics. It's like celebrity for ugly people because it's like.

00;07;23;01 - 00;07;49;16
Speaker 1
It's like they're celebrities and it's like, oh, this is so fun and cool. And yeah, it is really it is really exciting. And it used to, it used to feel like everyone wanted what was best for the United States. We just differed on how to get there. And now it feels like there's no endgame, that it's like all about winners and losers and that we are on these sides and that there's no common ground.

00;07;49;16 - 00;08;23;15
Speaker 1
And so I feel like in the church, it feels like if you're on one side and I'm on the other, our relationship is going to change if we discover that. So we don't even want to go there and have that conversation. And I think unfortunately, to me, the church, big C church, has interjected into politics in a way that we have to start having these conversations because now we've centered ourselves into it, and now we have to start talking about it because whether we like it or not, we're in the middle of it.

00;08;23;17 - 00;08;39;11
Speaker 1
And in a way that is being portrayed to me in a negative light. And so we have to start having these conversations of how we're going to balance that out as the church and how we want to be seen, because we're in it now. We can't ignore that.

00;08;39;11 - 00;08;40;11
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;08;40;13 - 00;08;58;11
Speaker 3
Yeah. Now go ahead. Well, I just like what you were saying before we we started the podcast recording. We're coming up with our coffee and you're saying how sometimes we don't realize that we are all on the same side if we're. Can you say what you said? Because that was so profound in the, in the elevator?

00;08;58;18 - 00;09;17;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I was, I when we were talking and I just, I feel like as the church we have taken these political sides. But really, when it comes down to it, we should be on the kingdom side. We are on the Lord's side. We follow the Bible. And if we are following the Bible, we cannot be 100% on either side, right?

00;09;17;18 - 00;09;38;12
Speaker 1
The Republicans and the Democrats. Neither side is following the Bible. Neither side is the Lord's side. Yeah, you might feel like one side is going and we can we can debate all day which side is actually like closer to the Bible. Yeah, neither side is 100%. So as the church, we cannot say one is 100%. We have to be on the Lord's side.

00;09;38;12 - 00;09;49;29
Speaker 1
And that is where the church, I think, can find unity. And that's where we can be aligned. And the rest of it, that's debatable, but that is where unity can be found if we are actually following the word.

00;09;49;29 - 00;09;50;25
Speaker 3
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00;09;50;25 - 00;10;14;22
Speaker 2
And that's the important piece of this, right, is that we have to be critical and and honest, intellectually honest, biblically, accurate when it comes to policies or perspectives of either side that, that don't align with God's word. Right. And because ultimately we do know where truth what truth is because we have it in His Word. It's why we need to know the word.

00;10;14;22 - 00;10;52;05
Speaker 2
And I do think that's maybe one of the issues in the church when it comes to politics is like we're just biblically uneducated at this point. Illiterate. We don't know the word as well, which is why we often stumble through politics, siding with political parties on topics that are clearly anti biblical or anti God's commands. But then at the same time, we've got Christians who do know the word but maybe will circumvent the word on certain topics because it doesn't align with their party or yeah, the political person that they have sworn allegiance to.

00;10;52;05 - 00;10;57;11
Speaker 2
And unfortunately, like we shouldn't swear allegiance to anyone, but Christ, right? I mean.

00;10;57;11 - 00;10;57;29
Speaker 1
Even.

00;10;58;01 - 00;11;17;20
Speaker 2
Even I know a pastor that won't pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America. And I'm like, hey, I actually kind of respect that because he's like, my allegiance is to Jesus. Like, I'm not pledging any allegiance to a country. Now, can I love my country? Yeah. Can I live in a way that that seeks to better my country and the people?

00;11;17;21 - 00;11;35;27
Speaker 2
It will, of course. That's our job, right? I mean, God gave that command to the Israelites. Like to to work in the nation. You've been planted in, like, seek and work for the betterment of that nation, right? And to bless and not curse. And so we see that in the Old Testament. We see it commanded in the New Testament.

00;11;36;03 - 00;11;59;29
Speaker 2
But I think it's not alignment with people, political leaders or parties that's got us all tripped, tripping up. And then you couple that with, like you said, the divisive nature of this culture when it comes to politics, there's we're not we're not we can't align on anything even if we know it's for the betterment of the country. Well, my party didn't come up with that idea, so I'm actually going to be against it.

00;12;00;04 - 00;12;21;14
Speaker 2
And that's where I think, like, I just struggle. And so I think a lot of people are probably like me, and even maybe you, Jenny, you just kind of said this. I've just been, like, distancing myself from politics, unfortunately, because it just feels like there's a win. It's a lose lose situation. So. And yet I know I have to talk about it as a pastor.

00;12;21;15 - 00;12;52;12
Speaker 2
I've done it on Sundays. So talk to me about, maybe we go here. I think maybe we talk about the allegiance to certain leaders, and we could say it on either side. And why do you think it's so dangerous? I mean, obviously there's people who are, like hardcore Donald Trump right now. Even if things are not aligning with the word or with Kamala before, you know, Christians that were so aligned, even if there were things that she stood for that weren't aligned with the word.

00;12;52;12 - 00;13;02;13
Speaker 2
So how can we talk to those right now out there that it's like, hey, we have to not pledge allegiance to a person, only the King of kings.

00;13;02;16 - 00;13;10;11
Speaker 4
I'm actually really, really big on that topic right there. What you're just talking about, like, if anybody follows my Instagram page, you might. You might.

00;13;10;13 - 00;13;13;08
Speaker 3
Oh, really? I'm I'm just kidding. I'm just totally.

00;13;13;08 - 00;13;14;11
Speaker 1
Be.

00;13;14;13 - 00;13;19;16
Speaker 4
The demons are wide open. Come have a conversation. Yeah. So, but.

00;13;19;18 - 00;13;23;11
Speaker 3
Hating on some politically. You're hating on LeBron James. Yeah.

00;13;23;11 - 00;13;27;00
Speaker 1
Pretty much. Okay, that's where we are is we're is we're a PJ.

00;13;27;00 - 00;13;29;03
Speaker 3
Okay, I'm sorry I totally interrupted and I.

00;13;29;03 - 00;13;30;20
Speaker 2
Was wearing a Bulls jacket. Really.

00;13;30;20 - 00;13;33;29
Speaker 4
I had to let y'all know straight up. Yeah I have to go.

00;13;34;02 - 00;13;35;10
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay.

00;13;35;12 - 00;13;36;17
Speaker 1
That'll be a separate podcast.

00;13;36;17 - 00;13;37;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00;13;37;10 - 00;14;03;27
Speaker 4
Another topic anyways, but yeah. So I've always been on the side of. I think it's very dangerous. For believers to pledge their faith to a specific politician or candidate. Doesn't matter what side of the aisle that you're on, because I believe it poses a threat of a POC. Chrissy. Possible hypocrisy to come up. I think as believers, we are called to be representatives of God.

00;14;03;27 - 00;14;40;10
Speaker 4
We are called to, show people like who God is through our lives. You know, I think you've probably heard a lot of it being said that sometimes somebody will never even open up the Bible, but you'll be the only Bible that they read. Yeah, yeah. So because of that, I think it's very we need we need to be very careful about how much of our faith do we attach to, a political figure or a party, because a lot of times historically, we've seen that people, use religion as a source of control and power, and it can be manipulated in a lot of different ways.

00;14;40;12 - 00;15;04;11
Speaker 4
And it's historically it's been really bad on how it's been done. So I've always been on the side of, hey, like vote for whoever you want to vote for, like whatever you believe personally, whatever is going on in your personal life, you have a right to do that. As an American. But as a believer, I think we really need to separate, you know, our allegiance like we do, to make it very clear that our allegiance is to.

00;15;04;14 - 00;15;06;08
Speaker 3
And the the project sisterhood, I.

00;15;06;08 - 00;15;21;27
Speaker 4
Guess faith. It was in Christ and Christ alone, like our emotions are with Christ in Christ alone. Because if we start attaching it to a human who's flawed, we're going to have to do a lot of cleanup work on the back end, I believe.

00;15;22;00 - 00;15;39;27
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I, I feel like with the political parties there's, there's a lot the Democrats say a lot of things. And so I feel like I'm independent but I vote Democrat all night every single time. That's what I.

00;15;39;27 - 00;15;41;11
Speaker 2
Vote. And she's out of herself.

00;15;41;16 - 00;15;42;00
Speaker 1
So I.

00;15;42;00 - 00;15;42;18
Speaker 3
Love it.

00;15;42;20 - 00;15;45;18
Speaker 2
Some people just tuned off. Now I'm just going.

00;15;45;21 - 00;16;07;01
Speaker 1
Hey, I'm declined to state after what they did to Bernie Sanders. I mean, declined to state. And so, but that's the way that I vote. I do not agree with everything that Democrats say and everything that's on their political party. And the same way most Republicans, I don't think you can say you agree with every single thing.

00;16;07;03 - 00;16;24;16
Speaker 1
And then also then we bring in religion to it and people will say the Bible says, judge not, lest ye be judged. Okay. The Bible also says a lot of other things besides that one verse. And so we take one thing here and one thing there, and then we like mix it all up and we decide that's what we're believing.

00;16;24;16 - 00;16;47;04
Speaker 1
And it's like, well hold on, you're cherry picking things and then pledging allegiance to one thing or saying, well, the Bible says this one thing and it lines up with this belief. And it's like, well, hold on. You left out a whole bunch of other things that the Bible says that doesn't match up with your political party. And I think that's where we're saying that, you know, the Bible, when Jesus lines up with my political party and it's like, well, no, it doesn't.

00;16;47;04 - 00;17;15;27
Speaker 1
You just left out a whole bunch of other things that the Bible said. And so I think that that's where we're having these issues, where Christians are lining themselves up with a party. And I think that's where we're having issues with unity within the church, because if I look at Christy and let's say Christy voted the opposite that I did, and I have assigned something about her side to her that might not be true.

00;17;16;02 - 00;17;40;17
Speaker 1
She might have decided to vote this way because of one specific issue, but I've assigned my beliefs about this party to her, and now I assume all these things. And I've damaged our relationship because I've made all of these assumptions, right. You know, I'm not saying that there's there's this idea that Republicans are racist. I don't believe that there's plenty of Republicans at our church that I'm friends with.

00;17;40;17 - 00;17;56;22
Speaker 1
I don't think that they're racist. Now, if I took that belief to heart and said, well, Republicans are racist now, I've damaged these relationships with all of these people at our church and all these beliefs. They could have voted Republican because they're against abortion. That could be their one issue. Yeah. And they don't believe anything else that they've said.

00;17;56;22 - 00;18;17;14
Speaker 1
This is their issue. But we don't have conversations with people. We don't ask them, hey, why did you vote this way? Or hey, I, you posted this thing on social media and I disagree with you. Why do you feel this way? We refuse to have conversations. We see a post, we make an assumption, and we've damaged this relationship and we refuse to find out and ask about it.

00;18;17;20 - 00;18;37;02
Speaker 1
And I think that is the issue. And I feel like as the church, it's our responsibility to have these conversations. We're the ones we're supposed to be the light on the hill. No one else is going to do this. I'm supposed to say, this is my sister. This is my brother in Christ. I am going to choose our relationship, yes, above all of these other things.

00;18;37;02 - 00;18;58;22
Speaker 1
And I'm going to have this conversation and figure it out, and I'm going to move forward with them and agree to disagree. Yeah, I don't know why we can't do that anymore. Like it's become this thing that there's winners and losers. No. I have taken the mantra that our experiences determine what we believe. I don't get to tell you your experience is wrong.

00;18;58;28 - 00;19;07;22
Speaker 1
Yeah. I don't get to say that. Oh well what happened to you and your experience and your belief makes you wrong. No, we just disagree.

00;19;07;24 - 00;19;39;04
Speaker 4
And I think that's that's also the danger of attaching your faith to a political system because, we have a lot of identity in our faith. So once you start tying that up, then somehow, you start it, you start tying up your identity to a political figure or a political party, and then the cat's out of the bag at that point, you know, and you start and it starts to be very difficult to have those conversations because everything is so triggering, because now your.

00;19;39;04 - 00;19;39;27
Speaker 2
Identity is tied.

00;19;39;27 - 00;20;02;00
Speaker 4
My identity is tied to it. So now if you start questioning it or having that conversation with me, I'm automatically defensive. That's the danger of, you know, something as as a, as as close to heart as our faith, marrying it to a political figure, a political party or belief system, because, I mean, our identity is in Christ.

00;20;02;00 - 00;20;17;16
Speaker 4
And if you start saying, hey, Christ, you know, is with this person or with this party, there's a prophecy about this, about this. It's like, okay, we're start. We're starting to step into some dangerous waters. If we're not careful. Yeah.

00;20;17;16 - 00;20;41;12
Speaker 2
I think that's so good because the identity piece is, to me, the biggest issue with what's happening right now, because we tie our identity so much, it's wrapped up in a in a party or a political figure. And then we feel personally attacked if anyone disagrees. And ultimately, as followers of Christ, if I could get anything to anyone listening to this podcast, it would be please make your identity in him.

00;20;41;13 - 00;21;06;22
Speaker 2
Yeah, in Jesus, in Christ, and not in a political figure, a political party we know, biblically that that like, leaders will rise and fall, governments will rise and fall, Nations rise and fall right. But the Lord will endure. And in our relationship with him in eternity is what matters. I'm not saying we can't fight. For what we believe in politically.

00;21;06;22 - 00;21;25;00
Speaker 2
I'm not saying you shouldn't be involved in engaged in in politics in some manner. But I am saying that what you said is what I see as the issue. And it's just so much of our identity wrapped up in it, and so we can't do what you said, Jenny. We can't. We can't fight for unity with our brothers and sisters.

00;21;25;00 - 00;21;47;09
Speaker 2
We can't even have a conversation, because then our identity feels attacked if they disagree. And then when that takes place, I have to separate myself from that person because they're toxic. Well, maybe actually, your connection to politics and your identity is toxic. It's not that that person's view is toxic. Right? And they may be wrong. Like, let's be real.

00;21;47;09 - 00;22;15;07
Speaker 2
Like like not everyone is right. And I think some of these topics, I think, right the majority of the time. But maybe in five years I may think I'm wrong. I mean, that's happened to me even in the last few years. And so I think it's so much to say, hey, just make sure if you're identities in Christ, then you don't have this deep soul connection to a party or a leader to where you're more able to have the conversations and fight for unity with your brothers and sisters.

00;22;15;14 - 00;22;40;00
Speaker 3
Right? I actually think I want to go back to that question that you asked of why people don't talk about, or why they are afraid to talk about their faith and engage because you were saying, we really need to and I love that we have I mean, we we're at the end of our book club recently, a sister book club and a bunch of us and I know what a lot of those individuals, myself and you, what we voted what we believe for the most part.

00;22;40;02 - 00;23;07;20
Speaker 3
And it was such a cordial conversation, such a healthy discourse, love was at the center of it. But what I hear you saying is we, we need to have these conversations. And I think the reason why we don't have the conversations and people's is because when people's identities are wrapped up in political parties rather than the Prince of Peace, then we, we say, no, I can't talk to them about this.

00;23;07;20 - 00;23;31;04
Speaker 3
No, I have to mute them. I had to shut them out. I mean, sometimes you have to mute people just because they're just too much. But you're trying so hard to protect your peace, and it's like, are you? If you have to protect yourself, you don't actually have peace. If you're really connected and you identify with the Prince of Peace, then you don't need to be like shielding yourself from everything, okay?

00;23;31;04 - 00;24;00;15
Speaker 3
To a degree. There's some boundaries that you can have, but when you're totally cutting people off, kind of like you were talking about earlier, I don't think you actually have peace. You're trying so hard to, in your own self, in your own strength, protect yourself. And the Prince of Peace should be your should be your own protection. And we should be engaging in these conversations, having love for one another and not allowing, especially our brothers and sisters in Christ to, yeah, to steal that peace from us.

00;24;00;15 - 00;24;11;23
Speaker 3
The joy of the Lord should be our strength. And if we can't maintain healthy discourse that is full of common sense, that is full of compassion, then we're not. We're not fulfilling the law of Christ.

00;24;11;25 - 00;24;29;00
Speaker 1
Yes. And how do we talk to each other? Because I will tell you, I had people who messaged me and during the political second like, how can you as a Christian. Yeah, vote for Kamala Harris. And I'm like, first of all, how dare you question like my relationship with Christ?

00;24;29;00 - 00;24;30;25
Speaker 3
I didn't think you were gonna tell people about my damn to.

00;24;30;27 - 00;24;54;14
Speaker 1
No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Guys. That's amazing. That's not funny at all. You know, and questioning how I vote. And it's like there are a lot of issues. And like I said, for some people, this is their issue and it's not for me. There are other things that are my issue and we all have to decide what that looks like, right?

00;24;54;17 - 00;25;10;04
Speaker 1
And that is between me and me in the Lord and how I feel like I vote and I don't think that it's just this zero sum game. And I do know that there are some, social issues. And I think that's part two of the podcast, and we can talk more about these social issues.

00;25;10;04 - 00;25;11;26
Speaker 2
We could actually discuss some of these topics.

00;25;12;01 - 00;25;28;24
Speaker 1
That that I think that people might argue over what that looks like. But it's like, I don't like I said before, one party does not represent these things because it's like, okay, this might be your issue, but for me, it might be the poor and the widow and I might feel like this party represents that in a different way.

00;25;28;24 - 00;25;45;26
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so we can go back and forth like as a Christian, how dare you do that? No, that's not how we talk about each other, right? That shouldn't be. We are. Doesn't the Bible say like they'll know us by our love for each other? So we're sitting here as the church, tearing each other down and not having unity.

00;25;45;26 - 00;25;54;07
Speaker 1
What does that say to everybody else? Yeah. And if we can't have these conversations, we can't go outside and, you know, be that light to everybody else. Yeah.

00;25;54;07 - 00;26;21;11
Speaker 3
I was just going to say, I think some of us just need better communication skills. If you act a little bit more curious about why people think some ways, then you would stop asserting judgment on them and casting them away. Like, we just need to stay curious and ask more questions rather than, attacking people. So communication skills will help us in our healthy discourse, or the goal of engaging in conversations about politics in the church.

00;26;21;14 - 00;26;49;29
Speaker 4
Yeah. So, like, just to kind of rally off of that. I feel like it's really hard for people to have conversations face to face these days because we have so much screen time. And a lot of times when we're posting, when we're reacting off of an Instagram post or in the person's comments, we have a person that we're talking to in our minds that we're trying to communicate with on, on Instagram, but when we get face time with each other and all of a sudden I have to like, look at your face, look at your eyes, look at your body language.

00;26;49;29 - 00;26;57;13
Speaker 4
And I have to approach you a certain way with respect, and I have to be able to be open to listening to you versus when I'm behind a screen.

00;26;57;13 - 00;26;57;25
Speaker 3
Very good.

00;26;57;25 - 00;27;06;01
Speaker 4
Yeah. You know, there's a lot of things that I can come to to my own mind, just by, you know, twiddling my fingers. You know.

00;27;06;03 - 00;27;34;24
Speaker 2
What? We dehumanize and demonize. And it's much easier when I'm not touching you, sitting in front of you, like hearing your heart, seeing your face. And I think that's a big issue for me with with why politics. Politics has gotten to where it is right now is, I think, just the social media generation we're in is part of the culprit of why it feels like there's no winners, or there's only winners and losers, right?

00;27;34;24 - 00;28;02;19
Speaker 2
There's no common ground, I think because social media, I mean, we know that it's it's extreme, fantastical, even like fear based negative media that that gets the most, activity. And so that's what's being proliferated to us. That's what's being fed to us. And then we'll have someone share something, and they may not even fully align with that person that they're sharing or that topic.

00;28;02;24 - 00;28;21;03
Speaker 2
They may be curious, they may be like, oh, I actually agree with part of this, but they share it and then we associate them with a whole entire ideology. Right? And then when I talk to them, I go, oh, you're actually closer to me than I thought. That's happened to me so many times, right? Because I'm like, I like to have conversations.

00;28;21;04 - 00;28;36;22
Speaker 2
I'm not going to, like, shy away. I'll be like, hey, you, you posted this like, what are your thoughts on that? I want to hear more because I was kind of triggered by it, or I was bothered by it. And the next thing you know, it's like, oh, we're actually closer in alignment in our perspective than I thought.

00;28;36;22 - 00;29;03;03
Speaker 2
And I see that point. And it took a conversation. And so I think that social media is a big, I think, reason that we're struggling with conversations. It's the screen time generation. It's the algorithm. The algorithm. Yeah. We're being fed. We're in an echo chambers of like the same media being fed to us all the time. We're not seeing outside perspectives, not to mention all the misinformation out there, disinformation, whatever you want to call it.

00;29;03;06 - 00;29;16;15
Speaker 2
And so now we're being triggered by things that aren't even maybe accurate. And then, you know, we're not that we're too lazy to do our homework, but it's difficult because there's so much like but this seems correct information overload.

00;29;16;15 - 00;29;16;27
Speaker 4
Yeah.

00;29;17;01 - 00;29;31;18
Speaker 2
And so that's why I think conversations are key. I do want to I would love to have more conversations, you know, in the future about certain topics, because I do think probably people out there like talk to us about abortion, talk to us about health care, talk to us about.

00;29;31;20 - 00;29;32;11
Speaker 3
Immigration.

00;29;32;11 - 00;30;07;19
Speaker 2
Immigration. Yeah. Like all these topics that I think if we really talk about it, probably as followers of Christ, we're closer than we think. But I think you're correct, Janine, in that more people vote on certain topics that are close to their heart. So, I do want to ask this question because I think that it's bothered me, but I'm not even sure where to go with it because it's it's it's leaders in the church who are making these blanket statements like your friend did to you.

00;30;07;22 - 00;30;38;21
Speaker 2
There are pastors who I follow, and I even respect, and I know who are throwing out blanket statements like, if you vote for. Then you're not a Christian. Or this party is a party of the demonic, you know, or whatever. And so what I think they're missing is the nuance and most of them are obviously leading like very one sided churches, whether it be, you know, Democrat or conservative, our church very diverse.

00;30;38;23 - 00;30;55;11
Speaker 2
And I would say very diverse politically. I mean yeah a lot of these guys were split down the middle maybe were one way or the other. I don't really I mean I've never polled our church, but just knowing the conversations I've had, that's what I'm guessing. Yeah. So I'm seeing this and I'm like look I first of all don't agree with that.

00;30;55;11 - 00;31;20;20
Speaker 2
These these pastors saying if you vote one way, you're right. You know, aligning with Satan, you're not even a Christian. And so let's talk about maybe like the reality of like where what is our the foundation of our salvation? And then why are we making these blanket statements about political parties somehow determining, determining our walk with the Lord?

00;31;20;22 - 00;31;55;18
Speaker 4
I would say it's echo chambers. And when we talk about the algorithm before, I think a lot of times if you, it's very easy to look at your particular party and what they, you know, quote unquote stand for and not have a whole lot of knowledge about what the other party stands for. And you start making these blanket statements like, you know, hey, like, our faith is for this, this and this without having a lot of knowledge of the other side and then saying, you must vote this particular party because these are the Christian values that they stand for.

00;31;55;18 - 00;32;21;07
Speaker 4
But you probably won't even understand or know what Christian values on the other side, because there's aspects of, of Christianity actually on both political spectrums. If you dive deep enough into them, you know, and I think that's what's like that's what's happening. I think we get so caught up in our own echo chamber in our own communities, and we don't have these conversations with other people.

00;32;21;07 - 00;32;34;04
Speaker 4
We don't, have these, conversations with different people, with viewpoints, different viewpoints than ours, a different upbringing than ours. And so we just make these blanket statements because ultimately, I don't think we're informed enough, to be honest.

00;32;34;07 - 00;32;50;10
Speaker 1
I feel like we are in because of social media, because of rage posting, because we don't want to read more than like two sentences or watch more than 15 seconds where it's this weird kind of dumbing down of things.

00;32;50;10 - 00;32;50;25
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00;32;50;28 - 00;33;21;06
Speaker 1
And we're in this weird culture war that politics is attached to, and that the church now has kind of become attached to that. We're not going to get into these topics and where we stand, but I think that there's there's abortion, there's LGBTQ, plus there's all of these things that the church, big C church has said. These are cultural issues that we're going to be tied to.

00;33;21;06 - 00;33;32;09
Speaker 1
And then a political party has tied to. And that's where I think we get into that. Some of these churches has said we're taking a hard stance and this party's taking a hard stance, and that's why we're this.

00;33;32;09 - 00;33;33;10
Speaker 2
Is the Christian.

00;33;33;13 - 00;33;57;27
Speaker 1
This is exactly. Whereas for some other people we see other parts of the Bible and other parts of what Jesus has said that I think fall in line with other political ideologies. Yeah. And so I think that that's where this chasm falls of what you, what you vote on. And I think that that's where it comes down to.

00;33;57;27 - 00;34;07;15
Speaker 1
It's this culture war that we're having. And whether or not we as the church should be involved in this culture war that is happening in the country.

00;34;07;18 - 00;34;18;08
Speaker 2
Yeah. Well, and that's a that's the hard thing. I mean, I think we're at the point now where we have no choice. Right? Like we have to be involved. We have to talk about it. I mean, we're doing it right now.

00;34;18;11 - 00;34;21;19
Speaker 1
We've put ourselves in the center of it. Well, yeah. And even if.

00;34;21;21 - 00;34;51;18
Speaker 2
Even if we hadn't, it's almost like it's come to us now. I think I said it a few months back, like, it's not that the church has gotten more political, it's it's that, that politics have gotten more. I would say spiritual in some ways. Like, I just think that there's more topics that are intertwined to like the core of what a follower of Christ should be about than it used to be.

00;34;51;18 - 00;35;15;12
Speaker 2
At least that's how it feels to me. Than it used to be. I think, like you said before, there was common ground. There was probably more people in the middle. And then somehow it was like, okay, you can't really be in the middle anymore. You're right or left. And which side is the Bible on? And I think you're right, though, that it's the Bible is not on any one side.

00;35;15;12 - 00;35;43;20
Speaker 2
And that's where we get it twisted in the church. And we're like, well, this party, because of these two topics like, hold on a second. That's two topics, right? Yeah. And obviously abortion, like we've always stood for life here at our church. And so yes, that's one topic. But then, you know, you go to, to gender and then you go to, you go to immigration and then you go to how we take care of the poor and.

00;35;43;20 - 00;35;44;22
Speaker 4
The racial issues.

00;35;44;22 - 00;36;07;10
Speaker 2
And racial issues. Oh, yeah. I mean, we could keep going down the list to where it's like, I don't know that you could say one party, one or the other aligns fully with the word. And so that's where and here's where I kind of want to take it. My issue is that the the nation and the church is we're obsessed with every four years.

00;36;07;13 - 00;36;34;03
Speaker 2
And the presidential election. And I actually told I made a lot of people mad this last, you know, this last election because I said abortion to me is not even a topic for this vote. I said, it's the Supreme Court put it in the hands of the state. So at this point, that should not have any bearing on my voting for president, because it's not changing in the next four years.

00;36;34;05 - 00;36;56;20
Speaker 2
Yeah, the states are in control of it now. So my thing is I need to be more involved in my local politics. I need to be more involved in my state, in my city. Like there's these people who are so passionate about politics, but all they care about is who's who, one president or not. And if their candidate wins, they're ecstatic and they're in heaven.

00;36;56;20 - 00;37;15;21
Speaker 2
If their candidate loses, they're like depressed for the next four years. And I'm like, whoa, wait. So much of what's happening in our city, in our state is happening at a local level, and we got to be involved in that. Are you researching? Are you are you voting even like most people aren't even vote. Most Christians aren't voting at the local level.

00;37;15;21 - 00;37;33;00
Speaker 2
I'm like, I'm getting my focus is shifting to more of that. Really. These last like probably 4 to 8 years because I see the impact it's having on my kids. Like my kids are in public schools here in Sacramento. I need to be paying attention to what they're doing in the education system, what money is going into it.

00;37;33;03 - 00;37;52;12
Speaker 2
I'm even thinking about people in our church who have kids who, and when we were just talking to me, she has kids who get after school care that was being funded from, a state level or five from, from a national level. And when Trump got elected, he pulled a bunch of that funding and it trickled down to the state level.

00;37;52;12 - 00;38;07;23
Speaker 2
And now she's like, I have no. And her child has special needs. I have no after school care for my child. Oh my goodness. Like, this is something I've never even thought about. Yeah. But I'm like abortion. That's the only topic I'm allowed to vote on. Listen, we have to be, a little more. It's more nuanced than that, I would say.

00;38;07;23 - 00;38;26;21
Speaker 2
And we have to be a little more, educated on, like, okay, there's a whole lot of other topics that are affecting even people in our own churches at a level that I need to be paying attention to more. Now listen up. I'll out myself. You outdid yourself. I've been conservative my whole life. I did in 2008 vote for Barack Obama because I was like.

00;38;26;23 - 00;38;28;23
Speaker 2
I was like the first black president.

00;38;28;25 - 00;38;31;15
Speaker 4
Hey, come on, Caleb, it's time.

00;38;31;17 - 00;38;33;24
Speaker 2
I voted Democrat of my life. Guys, I'm going to be honest with you.

00;38;33;25 - 00;38;35;00
Speaker 4
Come on. Caleb.

00;38;35;02 - 00;38;55;13
Speaker 2
But but, you know, at this point now, I'm like, look, I'm going to engage, but I'm not going to let who someone votes for determine whether even I see them as spiritual or following Christ or not. I just need to be more involved on a local level. I need to be paying attention to all the issues. Yes, because it affects people and I care about people.

00;38;55;13 - 00;39;00;23
Speaker 2
Right? And our call is to love people. So anyways, on that topic, what are what are your thoughts?

00;39;01;00 - 00;39;21;03
Speaker 3
Can I can I share too? Because I know that I was going to come in on this conversation promoting unity, being a little Switzerland. And, you know, because I've always been very much in the middle, I was not going to vote for either, Donald Trump or Kamala. We won't talk about RFK Make America Healthy again. Just kidding.

00;39;21;03 - 00;39;21;18
Speaker 3
I'm totally.

00;39;21;18 - 00;39;27;00
Speaker 1
Getting vaccinated.

00;39;27;02 - 00;39;43;18
Speaker 3
Anyways, I remember telling somebody that I was intrigued by RFK, and they were so mad at me because he was pro-choice. And again, I'm kind of just side with my husband even on, that and I didn't vote for, you know, we're not going to talk about who I voted for because I said I was going to be Switzerland.

00;39;43;25 - 00;40;03;00
Speaker 3
But here's here's my issue. And you talked about hypocrisy earlier. First of all, I don't think that we should I don't want to be. I don't think that I am Jesus's PR person. So if I get bent out of shape too much about how the way the church is acting, then that becomes an issue that I'm over identifying with.

00;40;03;08 - 00;40;22;05
Speaker 3
So I kind of stay out of those conversations because I don't think that government is the ultimate solution for the problems of humanity. And I think the problem with the church is that they see the government as a means, perhaps even greater than the church, to fix the problems of humanity.

00;40;22;06 - 00;40;22;17
Speaker 4
Is so.

00;40;22;17 - 00;40;42;06
Speaker 3
True. And for me, I, I the hypocrisy I have are the people who are so hell bent on their parties. And I'm like, how are you participating in being the change on a regular basis through the church? How are you giving to the church? How are you participating if you care about the poor? Are you participating in our in our,

00;40;42;12 - 00;40;43;02
Speaker 2
Feeding program.

00;40;43;02 - 00;41;00;11
Speaker 3
Feeding programs? If you care about education, are you participating in our children's programs? I, I just feel like the church has been on a high horse, and then they have put their hope in government, and that's why they're so bent out of shape about it. I want to check their giving records. I want to check their volunteer time.

00;41;00;11 - 00;41;21;21
Speaker 3
I'm not kidding, because I'm like, the church is the hope of the world. Yeah, and if you're not more convinced of that, then you are angry about either party. Then we have a problem. Then we don't know Jesus as a king of our hearts or the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords that is going to destroy the government at this time at the end of our time here on earth.

00;41;21;25 - 00;41;42;07
Speaker 3
So anyways, that's a little bit of a departure, but I think I'm listening to this and we can get in these conversations and they become totally unproductive because we have not truly made the King of kings, the King of our heart. And that's where it starts. There's divisiveness in the church because it starts with divisiveness in our own hearts.

00;41;42;09 - 00;42;06;05
Speaker 3
And if we don't rectify that, if we don't start repenting, if we don't start again, listen, we can talk a big game about having conversations with one another, but we can have cordial conversations with a lot of hate in our hearts. And it's fake. And that's the hypocrisy that I want to call out in the church. So for me, I think we need to get to a point where we humble ourselves, behold the Lamb of God, so that the Lamb of God becomes the King of our hearts.

00;42;06;08 - 00;42;38;28
Speaker 3
And we come into these conversations with true humility. Listen, I had a conversation. Honey. I'm sorry. I feel like I've kind of diverted the conversation, but there was two sisters in our, in our ministry. What do I call this in, in our church. And there are two polar opposite sides of the political aisle aisle. Thank you. And one gal went to prison tonight after, you know, this explosive text fight.

00;42;39;01 - 00;42;59;24
Speaker 3
And she wants presents tonight. And she felt like the Lord met her and said, you need to repent. You need to get right with me first. And so the Lord changed her heart to a degree in that presence tonight. And the other gal who didn't happen to go to present night, she was probably still feeling a way about the text thread.

00;42;59;27 - 00;43;18;23
Speaker 3
They saw one another on a Sunday morning, and then they were like, just didn't talk to one another. And I think there was still kind of stuff lingering in both of their hearts. Well, the gal who went to present tonight decided I'm going to send her flowers because after our exchange on Sunday morning, it didn't seem like we were in peace.

00;43;18;23 - 00;43;38;25
Speaker 3
Like we said, we were on text, so she sent her flowers. And then the other gal, who received the flowers that that totally changed her heart towards the guy who went to prison. I hope you guys are following this because I don't want to use names here. But now since that point, I've seen them talk to one another.

00;43;38;25 - 00;44;01;05
Speaker 3
I saw the text messages where they were actually repentant and where they were actually like, I love you says I don't want politics to get in the way of us being a part of sisterhood and promoting unity within our church. And I'm telling you, the thing that is going to change. This isn't more fake conversations, hypocritical conversations, and trying to play the game of empathy for one another.

00;44;01;05 - 00;44;06;09
Speaker 3
It's true repentance and allowing the presence of God to change us from the inside out.

00;44;06;11 - 00;44;29;16
Speaker 1
Yeah, this is the we have the opportunity in the church where we can show the rest of the country how it's done. Yeah, because we have something in common that actually is above all of this. Come on. No one else has that. Like we have Jesus. That's our commonality. That we can say beyond any of these other conversations we have this to fall back on.

00;44;29;16 - 00;44;49;00
Speaker 1
No one else has that. And so we really do have this opportunity to say, hey we can disagree. We can have all and disagree about really explosive stuff. And still be brothers and sisters and still build the kingdom together and have that example. And I think that that's really a beautiful thing. If we can actually actually have these conversations and do it.

00;44;49;00 - 00;45;10;19
Speaker 1
And I think that these are things that are explosive. And I think unfortunately, and I think what really upsets me and I know upsets PJ from like our conversations that we've had is that sometimes as Christians, which we've seen historically since the beginning of time, is that we get on this high horse sometimes of like, you know, oh, well, you know, we're Christians and so we should do this and you should do this.

00;45;10;19 - 00;45;29;11
Speaker 1
And like you said, wait for it to have pastors on a Sunday say you're demonic if you believe in this party, like right. That is wild. Yeah. That you would actually say that to people based on how they vote. Where, I don't know, maybe I don't want to vote for someone who is against like diversity, equity and inclusion.

00;45;29;11 - 00;45;50;21
Speaker 1
I don't know, maybe that's just me. I like that that's that's wrong with my spirit, you know, so that you would cherry pick these things and say that to people and that you would call that demonic and that we I was telling a friend this, I was like, it's interesting to me that for Christians, sometimes we call things out and we're like, oh, well, you know, but you shouldn't do this.

00;45;50;21 - 00;46;09;28
Speaker 1
And I know, you know, there's the judge not lest ye be judged. But then also we do have a call that we should lovingly call things out. Yeah, but I was telling her I was like, the difference is, who am I to call things out to these strangers like we have, like rando Christians calling things out? No, you two are my pastors.

00;46;09;28 - 00;46;28;13
Speaker 1
You I have you are allowed to call things out to me because you're my pastors. My husband can call things out to me because he is a Christian man. Why? I'm married to you. Strangers on the street. You don't call you. Yeah. And I think that Christians don't get that. That like when you have a relationship with someone, you can do that.

00;46;28;13 - 00;46;38;09
Speaker 1
But we get on these high horses that we can just call these things out and do all this stuff and not, like in a loving way. And now we're considered like this faith of like hate.

00;46;38;11 - 00;46;39;04
Speaker 3
Like that.

00;46;39;05 - 00;47;02;25
Speaker 1
That's not okay. Yeah. And we're doing this wrapped in politics and wrapped in these different ideologies. Right. And we need to start internally. Right. And if we can do that, I do think that we can change things and we can we can utilize our political conversations to make that change right, and not to totally change the whole conversation.

00;47;02;25 - 00;47;21;08
Speaker 1
But what you were saying about local politics. So important. Yeah. Anyone listening in Sacramento, we had practically a four way tie for mayor. Yeah, those votes like made a difference, right? You know, and then when it came down to the vote in, November, it was pretty close. Yeah. Everyone's vote counted.

00;47;21;10 - 00;47;21;28
Speaker 2
Yep.

00;47;22;00 - 00;47;42;04
Speaker 1
I my you know, first I wanted to be mayor did not win. But that's right. It really did count right. So school board, all of these things, things really do matter and really do make a difference. And the policies that we vote for the, measures, all of those things are super important. So it's not just who's in the white House.

00;47;42;04 - 00;47;47;06
Speaker 1
Like everything matters. And I think we're going to see that more and more.

00;47;47;08 - 00;48;12;07
Speaker 3
I think that engagement and a local level will keep us off our high horses, because of course, it's easy to call out DC and Trump and Kamala or whatever, whatever people are voting on a national level, there's no accountability there, but there's a little bit more accountability when it's impacting your life, your community. But so many people just go to the easy high horse, brand, you know, grand scale election.

00;48;12;07 - 00;48;35;27
Speaker 3
And it's like, that's that's not really impacting your life. You are just feeding in to all of the, the trash that is being proliferated on social media. And that's where I think social media high horses are, are the problem in the church because we feel like we have this platform. Now when I'm like, y'all don't even know half the people, more than half of the people that are on that are following you.

00;48;35;27 - 00;48;55;19
Speaker 1
Yes. And when you when you actually read the voter guide and you see how much stuff is in there, you realize, hey, there's a lot of issues and I'm sorry, I, I one woman cannot be up on every issue and everything. It's not possible. So please miss me with this. Like your party does this. Okay. I'm sorry I cannot be up on every issue.

00;48;55;19 - 00;49;03;02
Speaker 1
Like I'm going to pick the things that are important to me. That's how I'm going to vote. So that does not make me dumb on it. I yeah.

00;49;03;05 - 00;49;23;05
Speaker 2
Final thoughts any any final, thought you want to leave the listeners with. We'll do a part two where we maybe dive into some actual like let's debate some of these topics, but final thoughts on this kind of broad, like, hey, we need to have more conversations around politics and unity in the church.

00;49;23;07 - 00;49;48;09
Speaker 4
I would say my final thought is, the world is watching as Christians right now. And they're looking probably more than ever with the access of social media. They're looking at how we're going to respond to things. And I think, the danger is that is to think that they're only going to look at the way we vote, though, they're going to look at the way we come across political issues.

00;49;48;09 - 00;50;14;01
Speaker 4
But I think our power is our is in our unity. I think our power in showing our faith is how we love people, both on how we communicate with each other on social media and how we have these conversations. People are looking to see the Jesus that we told so much about. And I think we have an opportunity, to really just show the world like, this is Jesus.

00;50;14;01 - 00;50;35;14
Speaker 4
Jesus is not a hateful person. He's not a combative person. He's not somebody that doesn't have patience or empathy or, you know, or wisdom or any of those awesome traits. So I think we need to be aware as Christians. Hey, like I said before, we could be the only Bible that people ever read.

00;50;35;17 - 00;50;36;04
Speaker 3
Yeah.

00;50;36;07 - 00;50;39;08
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah. Anything final for you guys?

00;50;39;10 - 00;50;58;07
Speaker 1
So when I was, reading the Bible earlier, when I was preparing for this, one of the things I highlighted, and this is to no party in particular, just putting this out there. So Luke 632 says, if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them.

00;50;58;09 - 00;51;17;00
Speaker 1
And if you do good to those who are good to you, credit is that to you. Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinner, even sinners, Lynn. Dissenters expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back.

00;51;17;07 - 00;51;36;27
Speaker 1
Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Be merciful, just as your father is merciful. So I think as we have these conversations, it gets heated. It really does. But you know, it's our call. We we are we are the ones who chose to follow Jesus.

00;51;36;29 - 00;51;48;11
Speaker 1
No one else did. So people might talk while to us we chose to follow Jesus, we chose to aspire to be more like him. That is our call. Yeah.

00;51;48;11 - 00;51;50;26
Speaker 4
And so we are Christ followers first.

00;51;50;26 - 00;51;52;29
Speaker 1
Yes, we are the ones who have to do that.

00;51;53;06 - 00;52;19;26
Speaker 3
That's good. I kind of want to piggyback off of what PJ said because unity really, I think is the end goal. That's what preserves and what holds and carries the presence of God. And if we are really a presence driven church, presence driven people, then we're going to value and put unity at the forefront. So every podcast we give some sort of book recommendation.

00;52;19;26 - 00;52;45;25
Speaker 3
So my recommendation would be Francis Chance until a unity. It came out around 2020. And I'll read a quote from, his book. But let me preface it to like, not even just the book itself, but he lists in the beginning of the book all the scriptures that talk about unity. And he even said, I don't even think you need to go any further in this book to understand how to do unity, because the scriptures say it enough.

00;52;45;25 - 00;53;17;13
Speaker 3
The scriptures are truly enough. So I'm glad that you read something from Scripture. But I will say this, this quote from Francis Chan. He says, in many ways, we have lost the sense of the true holiness of God, and that has caused pride to grow and fester in the church. Everyone seems to start out with the assumption that his or her opinion of God or politics is right, rather than recognizing that all of us have an incomplete, flawed knowledge of God, not until we see God rightly will we see politics.

00;53;17;13 - 00;53;23;17
Speaker 3
Rightly will we see one another rightly will we ever have unity and the goal has got to be unity.

00;53;23;20 - 00;53;47;19
Speaker 2
So good. Thank you guys for being a part of this. Hey, make sure you keep an eye out for part two. We will dive into some of these actual conversations and topics. But I would just say, my call up to everybody is have a conversation with someone. I think that there may be a brother or a sister in your life that you've kind of like, had had some ill will or negative emotion or, thoughts towards.

00;53;47;19 - 00;54;04;06
Speaker 2
And maybe you just need to say, can we talk about this thing you posted or how I've thought you've seen things politically, and maybe one conversation would kind of, bond you back together in unity. And so that's my call up for everybody out there. But thanks for listening to the men of Faith podcast and the Sister Hill podcast.

00;54;04;06 - 00;54;12;23
Speaker 2
PJ, thank you for being a part. Deneen. Thank you for being on. We look forward to having you guys back. But hey, we'll see you guys next time. Grace and peace.

00;54;13;01 - 00;54;13;19
Speaker 3
Bye.