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We share stories of how the blood of Jesus has transformed ours and others' lives.
Hey everybody, welcome to the Red Ledger. We are so excited to talk about our favorite topic yet again, Jesus. And the one who we find our hope. He is hope, our confident expectation. We're going to discuss what that might mean for you if you are reaching for hope for him, or if you're looking to the world for hope and what the difference might be.
And we're also going to probably hit a number of other topics because we like to go on tangents. So yes, we do, but that will be the overarching theme. Therefore he said unto them, the harvest truly is great, but the labors are few. Pray ye therefore that the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labors into the harvest.
Go your ways. Behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. Carry neither purse nor script nor shoes, and salute no man by the way. And in whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. And if the Son of Peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it. If not, it shall turn to you again. And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give.
For the laborer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you. Eat such things that are set before you, and heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh to you. Into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you not, go your ways out into the streets of the same, and say, Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you, notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
But I say unto you that it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. Woe unto thee. Corazon, woe unto thee, Bethsaida, for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you, and thou Capernaum which are exalted to heaven shall be thrust down to hell.
He that hear you hear me, and he that despise you despise me, and he that despise me despise him that sent me. I really like the King James version because I was studying out of, um, a different version this morning and this is pretty clear. This is a hell. If you do not receive me, you're going to But what struck me as I'm reading this is the hope that we have in him when we believe in him, when we follow him.
And I started thinking about the dust in the city, how the whole, because this is a different time, right? It's not our time. So everyone's heard of Jesus during this time. Nobody had heard of Jesus. I mean, except for the people, the followers, the people who had heard his voice, right? But in this time.
They're going to wipe the dust off their feet of that city and move on. And I've kind of always taken this to mean like, okay, I'm going to go in and if I take this to our time and how we can apply this, I'm going to go and I'm going to say the gospel because that's what we're charged to do. Go, we go and we speak the good news to people and tell them that they can be saved, that Jesus has come.
The kingdom is near and. The kingdom is here now, but, um, I've always kind of thought about this dust the feet off thing as when we go to the same well, like, you know, we want one of our friends or our family to be saved and we keep going back and going back and we keep trying to bring them to God.
Without using the Holy Spirit as our guide, sometimes, I found that I want it for them, right? And maybe God has wanted me to kind of wipe the dust and move on and move forward. And maybe come back, you know what I mean? Because they have until Um, but I do have this desire, of course, for everyone I love to know God and even my, my worst enemy, I don't want to not know God.
I want them to know that Jesus is their savior, that, that there is hope in Jesus, that there is hope in being saved, not just in eternity, but here on earth. But this is pretty, this is pretty clear. There's a heaven, there's a hell. If you don't love the Son, you don't love God. And I think one of the things that your dad and I were actually talking about this morning as we read this passage was the people who don't believe, you know, where do they put their hope?
Because I have hope in Jesus. I have this confident expectation that He's going to show up for me. Cause he doesn't fail, like, he just doesn't, his word doesn't fail me, his word to me never fails me, um, I may fail, but he never fails. And I was thinking about that strong hope that I have, which, um, I believe is charis in the Greek and it means confident expectation.
It's not just like a wish, right? I hope, my hope is in Jesus. And I, I feel like it's rightly placed. If I think about atheists or a time when I didn't really believe in where I did put my hope and what that looked like, like, and sometimes I still do it, you know, um, we're in the middle of a business deal and I'm really trying to stay with God on here and not one get afraid.
But to, to put my hope and trust where he's leading me. And so I woke up this morning and weekends are usually, um, good for us for our Red Ledger gifts store, which is fairly new. Um, but we still get a few orders. You know what I mean? We're not raking it in, but the weekends are pretty good for us and we had no orders.
Not one. This morning, which is really unusual and my first thought was to go kind of figure out my analytics, to go here, to go there and put my trust in me and my mind, right? Not to look for direction from God, but to look for hope in Google analytics or changing my ads up, which I'm not, I'm not saying God isn't going to lead me there, but that's where I was putting my hope.
You know, and I was also noticing how fearful I was, because now I have another business deal that we are thinking about doing, and um, I started thinking maybe we shouldn't do that. You know, and. And because I wasn't thinking of God in this situation, I was thinking of the worldly what if, what if, what if, which made me kind of start to think about people who don't believe in God.
Like, how do you make these decisions without them? Because eventually I got there, but it was, it was a good five, 10 minutes of fear, heart palpitations, intensity, like, what are we doing? Should we be going this direction? And, and I was talking to your dad and saying, okay, so where's your heart, where's your head?
You know, and he kind of shared where he was with it, um, until we got on page in prayer with God. But where do you think atheists go? Like, do you think they're, I mean, where do they find their hope? Where do they put it at? I think that sometimes there's almost like a lack of concern. They maybe even perceive it as like they don't really need a hope because it's all relative or something.
Um. But like, okay, let's say you have a business and you've suddenly, you, you've got consistent orders since you started, then all of a sudden they're just gone. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? Where do they go in their minds? I think a lot of people do this. I think even Christian Christians do this where they will go to like their own power and their own strength and their own might and their own brain power and knowledge to be able to, um, change the, the, the narrative or like the story of their life, which might or might not work, uh, depending on the scenario.
Right. I think a lot of times Christians will, um, that are in that scenario will. Be found or put in a position to like, start trusting in God. But I think a lot of atheists might be empowered by another situation or allowed to keep going into a lot of the. that they're in from my perspective. I do think, um, I've tried to remember a time when I didn't really believe in God and I couldn't really, I mean, I think I've always believed, did, but was I following, was I surrendered?
And I tried to remember, and it wasn't really that hard to remember because, you know, the instance came up right this morning where I'm like, okay, am I leaning on God? No. Am I trusting him? No. Am I, Even asking him. I wasn't yet. You know, thankfully that comes much quicker for me, and it's not weeks and months.
It's minutes Yeah, because because I think some of the worst decisions are made in fear. Yeah, I agree And, or, you know, like dad, this is what dad said. He goes, he likes to get control of everything. Okay, when things seem out of control, he wants to get control. So he wants to control all the, the moving parts that are around him.
Yeah, I think control is a big temptation for. Humans. I do that too. Yeah. I do it too. Yeah. I think we all do it. I don't think that's. Yeah. Just for atheists or something. No. I mean, we didn't even have to see atheists. We should say people. Yeah. Yeah. So I was thinking to, um, the pride of the control where I'm trying to take control this morning of what's happening instead of asking God where I should go, meaning, you know, he does give us authority.
He did give us, I think that's even in this passage or later in. Yeah. Yeah. In this chapter about how we do have authority right here on earth and we need to claim that, but we also need to be obedient and there's blessings in that obedience. Meaning, um, what is the blessing if I'm in fear and nervous and crazy?
Like, and I'm, I'm running around with my chicken, like a chicken with my head cut off trying to solve a problem, right? That God could easily point me in the right direction and I can follow the lamp of his light rather than the lamp of Denali. Because, because we all know where that can lead to a crazy place.
If, when we're scared and nervous and. Did this passage bring anything to mind for you? Yeah. Um, I've seen something, I've seen it manipulated before. So, uh, that's kind of where like it, like it first took me. I was like, Oh wow. Cause what is it here? Let me, let me read the, the NLT version of it. Um, it sounds like, Yeah, it sounds a little different.
So, um, specifically like Luke 10, 16, then he said to the disciples, anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me. And anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. And anyone who rejects me is rejecting God who sent me. I've seen this used by someone who might be like in a, like a, like a faux faith or, um, like a misunderstanding in their life right now, maybe in a darker place where, um, Maybe that they, people weren't falling for, like, a manipulation that this person was creating.
And they were like, well, you're just against Jesus then. You're just against Jesus now. I know this is kind of, like, separate from, like, the context that it's really actually about, but I just thought it was interesting. But that's what came to your mind when you were reading this. Yeah, it is what came to my mind.
I think, I think it's, like, I think it's been used to manipulate. Um, and also maybe give, like a Christian, like if somebody goes against what like a Christian or like an actual Christian says, I think sometimes people who read the Bible from like the lens of like their own perspective or like, um, maybe desires or selfish wants, they, They will see that more as like, if you disagree with me, you're wrong, because I'm, you know, I don't, I can't correlate that.
I don't get it. Anyone who accepts your message is also accepting me, and anyone who rejects you is rejecting me. So if I'm rejecting this person, or this person's manipulation, or this person's attempt to control me, I'm rejecting Jesus. Oh, that's frightening. So I've, I've seen it used like that. Maybe not like this particular verse.
That is not what that means or says. You know, he's sending people, that is interesting. Okay, so, cause that is completely how they take it out of context. Cause he's sending people two by two to go say the kingdom is near. It's here, you know, Jesus is here. And they're using it as anything they say. That's interesting.
Yeah, so yeah, completely out of context. But I just like recall a scenario recently in my life where somebody was trying to manipulate. someone I know by saying like, well, you're an enemy of God now because you didn't do what exactly what I wanted you to do or like say or congratulate me on this thing the way that I wanted you to.
Now you're like a hater and an enemy of God, which I just thought was interesting. Wow. Wow, that is, that is pretty out there. I'm not sure I would really call them like entirely a Christian just based on like their journey right now. I don't think they're there yet, but. We can't know what's in another man's heart, but.
No, no. It's not my place, but if I were to take like an educated guess. If we're going to judge. Yeah. If I was just, yeah. If I, if I was going to. Analyze the scenario maybe kind of come up with my opinion on on what's going on. I I don't know I mean, obviously I don't know and I'm not here to like judge or like make that decision for anybody else But I just for my own sake, you know, is that person really who they say they are And I think that's an important thing.
Like we can't judge somebody's heart, but we can judge, okay, is this person somebody I need to be listening to, or do I need to be filtering more? And, and, and I think that's with all people. We need to filter it all through the word because God uses all kinds of people throughout. the entire book of the Bible that we wouldn't necessarily think he should use.
Like he's used me sometimes when I'm like, are you sure? Cause I was just a horrible human being to my husband this morning. And, and then I, I go to church and I'm working and counseling somebody and I'm like, I don't even feel, I feel like a fraud. Like I shouldn't even be there. Um, but he still shows up and gives me a word for him.
Which is amazing, so, but I still think whatever word he gives us or that we take from other people, that's why we have to be Bereans. And does, does it align with the word of God? Does it align with that? And I think that's where people get off in the weeds, like with that scripture that you just said.
That person didn't necessarily take like exactly that scripture, but like the same essence and like what's being said right there was pretty much exactly what was being said in that moment. Um, it is. Interesting. And how much scripture I got wrong when I first came to God and what I thought. And part of it was because I didn't go to church and I didn't have a mentor.
I didn't have a community of people correcting me. Um, and then when I did, when I was, um, working within a church and I, I was corrected by some really mature Christians. One of them, the same as Alice and she was. Really so gentle with me. I would teach something and after class, she would come in and gently correct me.
And, uh, yeah, it was really cool, but it's interesting how we, in our minds, you know, as we're aligning, you know, our spirits getting aligned with Christ, how, you know, we don't fully understand, or we don't even understand if we're hearing from God sometimes. And it's a practice, right? I, in the beginning, I, I, I wasn't sure if that was God and I just step out in faith.
And then. And then I would learn, Oh, okay, that wasn't God. That was me. But I think that's, that's part of the journey is, okay, you know, he says my sheep hear my voice. So you have to fine tune your ear to hear his voice, especially if you haven't been listening. Yeah. Well, you're kind of being bombarded like by four different languages.
I think you're getting from the world. From the enemy, from yourself, and from God. And I think that there's like a bunch of different voices that are kind of always being thrown your way that you kind of have to One, I think reading God's word is like the fastest way to be able to like learn his character and learn how he speaks and then it's easier to kind of pick out like, oh, that's, what, that's God's voice in my head, like that's the one.
Also, like, I don't know, like I still you know, I'm not always like 100 percent clear and like instantaneous, like I know it's God. Like sometimes I have to pray about it and think about it because like the other voices get like loud sometimes, you know? My, my voice gets loud like this morning. So I was really excited about something.
I'm like, okay, God is, do I move forward or not? And I really want it. So I have to really think about, okay, is this you or me, God? Like, even if like you want something though, like, I don't know if like, it's always like a sin though. Like, and sometimes like, I think I'm quick to myself to like, be like, Oh, like, do I just want this?
Or is this what God wants? And then sometimes like I convince myself like, Oh, like, because I want it, God doesn't. want it, you know, all the time. Or sometimes the other way around, like, um, like I'll convince myself that like, I want something that like God doesn't want for me because it's sometimes like, it's kind of like back and forth a little bit personally for me.
I kind of go through that a little bit here and there. So we're driving through the subdivision and we've asked this builder that your dad works with many times to buy one of these lots, like over the years. And he never says yes, never. And so we were driving, we were driving through the subdivision. A few days ago, or maybe like five or six days ago, and I was just thinking to myself, gosh, it would be so cool if he would just sell us one of these lots because it's exactly kind of where I want to be.
It's the size of lot I want. It's everything I kind of want. And then two days later, out of the blue, he calls and asks us if we want to buy it. We didn't even ask for that lot. Oh, wow. So he gave us a choice of two. And so, of course, I want to believe that that's God, but you know, I think, I think there's even more discernment necessary, right?
I'm going to pray like Dave and I have to agree. Your dad and I have to agree. There's, you know, I, I put more prayer into it. Um, and we, this one is tricky because we really want it. Yeah. Yeah. It is hard. And the devil knows what we want too. I feel like I'm always taught that like, like you can't have anything you want ever, like have nothing nice because you're a Christian.
You have to like deny yourself all the way in that way, you know? And I think that is an interesting thought because we are taught to deny ourself and deny our flesh. Yeah. Um, and I don't know. I mean, do I, I think it comes to a point, okay, do I want this a lot more than I want God? No. Yeah. When, or do I want to live in a home there more than I want to be?
No. No. But, um, and if a time comes and we do, you know, build a home there on the lot and buy it and it all works out, if he tells me to move and sell it, we do. Yep. But I think it's when we become a slave to the things is where it becomes a problem. Yeah. You know, we need to be able to move nimbly and quickly when he tells us to.
Yeah. Uh, you know, and that's, that's where the blessings come and that obedience and it always does look better. It always looks better than what we plan in our own life, uh, when we follow and listen to him. But he doesn't, I don't know where this, we kind of talked about this in a podcast with the financial coaches about this, um, this church poverty line.
Poverty is a virtue. Yeah. And I don't know where it comes from. I think the church has been teaching it. And, you know, I, we have some interesting comments on some of those reels about how people truly don't feel like their pastor should have any money. And, and I think even in this, this verse. It tells us a little differently, that they should be expected to be fed, right?
That they should be expected to be taken care of. Yeah, for real, huh? So, and in the same house remain eating and drinking such things as they give, for the labor is worthy of his hire. Yeah, it says don't hesitate to accept hospitality because those who work deserve their pay in the NLT. Yes. See, I like both.
Oh, I love hearing both versions of that. Yeah. And. And I think people get like a little trippy about if their pastor makes money and I, I get it gets a little confusing with the mega churches and these pastors having jets and, and I think he can go too far. I don't even want to judge on that because like, what if God wants them to have a plane so they can travel and they're doing healing places all over the world.
I mean, I don't know. I don't know. How about like a pastor that wears like a lot of designer? Like like overt like expensive like over the top designer. I don't know. It's a hard one. It doesn't bug me. Okay Yeah, cuz like there's a point where it's like, yeah, you should have something nice Like you shouldn't like just because you're a pastor you shouldn't like be able to own designer but I think that there is a level though where it's like Okay, like you can have things you like and things you want, but like, is this too excessive?
Is this reaching a point where it's like not being a good steward of God's money? Okay, let's use Joyce Meyer as an example. Yeah. So, um, I give to Joyce Meyer cause I get fed from her. Yeah. So, um, and I haven't looked in the last few years, um, because I used to look at her financials every year before I gave.
And now I don't give as much to her as I used to cause I don't really watch her as much as I used to. Yeah. Yeah. Um. But I do try give where I'm fed. That's cool. I like that. Yeah. And so, I, when I did look at her financials, I was floored by the amount of money that came into her ministry. Yeah. And then what really, really tripped me out was how much she didn't take.
And I want to say at that time, her salary was about 250, 000 a year. Somewhere on there years ago. And it was, I mean, and I don't have the numbers exactly, but it was in the tens to twenties of millions coming in. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I thought, well, that is interesting. And then what I also noticed was another line item, because she's written over a hundred books at the time, I think she's written 125 books now, like, she wrote those books, and she's not collecting the money from those, those go back into the ministry, and I thought that was interesting, because I'm like, okay, so, cool it.
So I, I understand maybe a pastor and it's none of my business how they do it. I don't care. Yeah. And that's between them and God, not me. But I would hope that I would do that. Yeah. The only reason I brought it up was to really kind of like challenge, challenge that thought though. Well, I do. I think it should be challenged because I think, okay, let's say, um, I had a big ministry and I wrote a book.
Mm hmm. Would Yeah. Would the book be mine or the ministry's? Like, does she, and I think that happens for a lot of these big pastors. I think that they have these book sales. They have these, um, other, you know, ways of income and they probably think of it as, you know, of course it's all God's money, it's all his story, but, and that's between them and God.
But I don't think people take that into consideration that they do other things besides the ministry. Yeah. And would, would I keep some of my own book money? I, I mean, I guess, I don't know, but I'm pretty impressed that she does, that it goes back into the ministry. It, it is really like between them and God that like, I mean, like to be obedient, like that, that's kind of the, the, the mark of lineation almost.
So what if they want a couple of nice designer suits because their book did well, like why would I begrudge them that? I couldn't imagine like, I don't know, like we all have things we like. You know, we all have things like, you know, we, we, we enjoy, you know, I think obviously like the, the mark becomes like going into like idolatry or going into like doing something that's not obedient to God and like your situation to God being, meaning like not being a good steward, but we aren't really the judge of that.
I just think like sometimes you can make like an. Like, like a guess, right? Like, or, or see something that kind of rubs you the wrong way, where like maybe there's like a pastor that appears to be spending money in a way that I personally probably wouldn't spend money if I was in their position, right?
Like not saying like I'm like, whatever. But would you in yours? Exactly. So he's feeding, he's feeding the people of God. Exactly. Exactly. Why should he get less? Exactly. I think that like, when you first see it though, like, look at it like a surface level is like, that is kind of like that feeling that like, I would have, you know, where it's like, huh, like, that's like, literally a, you know, I don't know, 5, 000 outfit right there.
Wow. Like, it's like, okay, like, but I, I, I couldn't like say that's even wrong because like, what if that's just like his thing? Like that's the thing he likes to spend money on and maybe he saved up a long time for it. There's so much like background that you couldn't even really know. We don't know. We don't know.
Like, what if it's a gift? Yeah. What if it was a gift? What if God was like allowed him to buy it, to use it as a tool or something? I don't know. Like, we don't know. You don't know. You know, I know a pastor who drives a really nice vehicle like, and. I know that one of them was a gift for their family, from a family member.
So, we don't, but not everyone knows that, nor is it any of their business, truly. But there's a temptation to judge. But it is interesting that judgment comes against these pastors in this condemnation. If they have something nice, but I'm wondering if we should do that even for ourselves. Like, do you think I shouldn't have something nice if I work really hard and I give to the kingdom and I do stuff?
Should I not have nice stuff? No. Do you think that about me? Yeah. Yeah. Or even anyone listening that's like, you know, no, but I don't think that about you either. So I guess my point was, was like, we probably shouldn't think that about ourselves. There is a temptation to judge it because there is like a worldly response to it.
There are other people's opinions. There's other people crying out about it. Well, and I think this is why we have to really pray with God about where we're being fed and our tithing and how we give so we can give with a cheerful heart. And if there is a bit. bitterness or resentment or jealousy in our heart, maybe that needs to be removed because I think that's kind of what that is, right?
If we see somebody with something nicer than we have or, you know, um, I've even heard somebody who has the same vehicle or similar.
I don't know if it's my place to say, Hey, I, that was a gift because it's none of my business. I'm in total agreement with you. I just kind of like playing advocate for like the other side of like the other understanding of it a little bit, you know? So we had a family member, um, kind of talked to me about this a while back and it was a mega church pastor.
And she was. She's really upset about how much money he made and how he kind of flaunted it. And, and truthfully, she showed me some videos that were questionable. And I don't know the guy, but he's world famous, but I don't really kind of follow those people too much. But, um, with the exception of Joyce Meyer, cause I love her, she's very practical, wise advice.
I wanted to be there with her, I do, but I'm really thinking we need to be super careful about how we judge people. Pastors and the people God appoints. I agree. And I think he, he gets to work that out in them and we get to choose and say, God, okay, do you want me to follow this, this pastor? Do you want me to be at this church?
And, and we have to trust him and we have to trust him with his own money that he gave us, right? So these are his resources of where he wants us to put them. And, and if we want to. Um, if we work hard and, you know, I'm, I'm praying to God that, that this lot is the right one for us to build our house on and, you know, I, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna feel bad about it.
I'm going to feel good that I am on the path. I know though, also I'm not married to this and he could move me out. Yeah. Yeah. What you said earlier kind of was what I was going through this morning on the lot was I don't really deserve this. Like, we don't really, we don't really need it. Like, I mean, it, it would be useful for our business, like to have more room.
Um, it would be useful for us to have more room for inventory, but do we need it? Could we just be kind of a little cramped where we're at? Yeah. Yes. Is it a wise decision? Is it just cause I want to house where everything fits and I can have a guest room for, you know, two guest rooms. So when you and your brother come, you guys both have good rooms.
Yeah. Yeah. All of this kind of really comes down to praying about it. Right. Right. Yeah. Like who's your pastor and. And having our hope in the Jesus that came to save us and having our hope that he will lead us to the right path. And, and it doesn't always mean. You know, I think sometimes I just said this the other day to, um, somebody, cause I said, you don't want, we're blessed by our obedience and it always looks better.
Like I said, I'd say this all the time. It always looks better than we think it's going to be. But I think some people get confused by what a blessing might look like. Yeah. Um. They always think it's financial, but blessings can show up. I was just thinking about you this morning when you were ministering to a friend of yours, and what a blessing it was that God used you as a vessel to speak the word of God to that person.
Did that feel like a blessing to you? Yeah. It is really cool. To be part of God's story with this young man. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, I mean, I don't know, like in our faith and my faith, that is the only thing that really matters. You know, I always kind of think about it like this. We're here for 80 years, 80 to a hundred years, and then we got forever and eternity, you know, and then like our time here is either spent like building up our For, for whatever we want here, building up kind of like eternal rewards that we can lay at Jesus's feet when, when the time comes, you know, and I'd rather invest in the latter half, you know, cause like I, we have no understanding or, um, ability to even conceive how like eternal life, like things can be, can get how infinite things can get.
So I'd rather, I'd rather invest my life. And into that is not, not even just in like a practical, like transactional way, but also, you know, um, like doing it God's way. Cause I, one, it's like, I know it's just going to be better and more meaningful, you know, and, and, and the closer I get to God, the more easy it is to kind of break down like what is more meaningful and the things that I don't.
Things, things start to become less meaningful to me, you know, and other things start to become more meaningful when they align to God's will. How do you think we help people get more kingdom minded than worldly minded? I think a lot of it is kind of like the urgency of the gospel. Um, like today's the day of salvation, we're nobody's promise tomorrow, and also like And I think the end of times could be near, right?
It says it in the Bible, the second coming soon, right? And we don't know the day or the hour, right? But we know the season and there is like an urgency, like, you know, your, your friend that, like, that could die tomorrow, that doesn't, that doesn't really know the gospel that maybe not, like, doesn't really know how you feel about Jesus, you know?
But there is an eternity. Yeah, I never want to be like, I always have like, I have this image in my head a lot of the time where it's like, I'm being pulled up from the rapture and, and, and like I'm leaving earth, but I'm looking back at the people that aren't coming with me. Ugh. And I'm just like, I have a vision, it's like, like, What, what would I even say to them, you know, how, what, like, I was too afraid to say something to you, you know, or like, I didn't want to be like all religious and weird on you, you know, and make you uncomfortable or, or whatever.
So, um, I think like a lot of like my friends, salvation, like really matters to me, like the people close to me and like everybody that kind of. Come in contact with like that urgency of like, this is life and death. This is what I believe to be true. And it is black and white is like it says it is in the Bible.
And, um, the closer I get, the only more true that it. It feels and that I know it to be so, um, it's it's less about like the rewards It's more about like the intimacy of Jesus to like we will get to like have a relationship with Jesus that doesn't have This level of like separation, you know, and I I don't know what it looks like up there But I never want to be in a position where like for example, maybe with my music, right?
I make music and like I've kind of idolized it in the past and like that like the process of making music or like being able to be like this person. And I never want to like idolize something here. And then like, I don't have responsibility of like some of like those things in heaven, you know, or, um, that's not biblical, but like, I just, it's something I think about, you know, and, and, and I guess just kind of like meditating on, on eternity and in the infinite.
Of eternity and, and all those things, and kind of seeing what the Bible says. Those, those kind of keep me a lot of like kingdom minded and also hearing like great teaching from people that do kind of focus on that. Mm-hmm . You know, we are here for 70, a hundred to a hundred years, eternity's forever. It goes by fast.
It's a blip, it goes by fast. So there is a huge shift in you from. Where you were concerned that, you know, like, and I think this happens to young men where you want to make your mark on this world. Yeah, legacy, right? And then we look at it not through the lens of the identity of who we are, but who we want to be to this world.
Yes. And I think that is the hard part and I know you don't do that anymore, but I'm just wondering what made that shift from you Wanting and needing that to you're really all in with Jesus like you're all in yeah I think I just started seeing like lies. I just started seeing like deceit and like Like as I got closer and kind of really simplified my life I kind of like saw the things that I was living for a little bit more objectively than so like affecting my ego What is like the meaning of life?
What is truth? Like what what are these things? Like these, these foundational principalities of who I am. Am I just kind of like ignoring the conversation to myself because I just want to like live in the moment and just kind of ignore it and just kind of get by and just kind of want to like serve myself and do whatever I want.
Cause you want what you want. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, you read the Bible and it convicts you, right. And you start to feel some certain type of way and it pulls you in and it pulls you closer and it becomes your belief system. And, um, not even just a belief system, but like, it is like. the underlying reality of the world we live in, and it is more than just like a book of rules.
It is the reality, like it is literally like the life we live, and it is like the guidebook to it, and also to like the guidebook to become God's best friend, right? But even outside of that, it shows really deeply like the fabric of the universe and how everything works. And um, I guess just like, As I grow closer and I start to really think about, like, what matters, why do people believe the things they believe?
Why do people do the things they do and really kind of think hard about it? There's just kind of like this, um, emptiness with everything else and this fullness with, like, just Jesus. And, um, The emptiness with everything else, like, like, everything does fade. Everything does pass away really fast.
Everything is like, here today, gone tomorrow. Everything's in decay. Everything is in decay. Even legacy, like, like, nobody knows, like, a famous singer from 500 years ago. Like, all of it, it doesn't, like, the only thing that really matters, like, that, that can really be, like, tangible, and, and, and I've really just kind of, my belief just grew in, like, who God was.
I accepted that this is like the reality of the life that I'm in and I'll submit to that and I'll submit to God. The, I, why, why would I invest in something that's not eternal? I guess, you know, if we're looking at like more practical like that, why, why would I think about like trying to fit in with like people or, or caring about like what people think about me so much, or, um, like not bringing up the gospel, you know, or, or, or whatever, when it just.
Like it, it doesn't, it doesn't matter, like, like none of that matter, like the, the, the people's validation doesn't matter. None of that matters. Even if they're angry with you for bringing it up, it doesn't matter. We dust our feet. And, and you can say it all you want. You can, you can like, like, I remember before I came to God, I'd be like, I don't care what anybody thinks, but I didn't even really believe that.
Like I didn't, I didn't even know that. I would just say that because it's just something to say to like make you sound some type of way, to literally tell somebody else how you feel about yourself. To brag about yourself because you're insecure really at heart, right? It's, it's, it's just more revelation and wisdom that God just pours out and you can ask for it and he'll give it to you.
So the closer you get to God, the more kingdom minded you get, the more you learn about him from his word, the more kingdom minded you get. And also accepted his truth. So this is like, so. So, um, when you're helping somebody struggle with going from that, you know, you got some brand new baby Christians in your life.
I love the advice you give to them about getting in the word and knowing his character. Because once we know his character and know how he feels about us, then we can figure out who we are through his eyes. But we can't, if we don't know that, if we don't know who he is. We don't know how he feels about us.
We don't know our relationship. And I, I've got a newer Christian in my life too, who, who can't seem to rest in that love. Yeah. But they're also not pursuing understanding who God is. Yeah. You know, you have, you have to know him. And, and this whole book is really important to read all of it and to know all of it.
And I'm in Luke again. Um, your dad and I are reading it. I, the first time I read Luke, Or the really got into it. It took me a year to get through it because I mean, I was studying this word and I think that's, that's the thing is you want to digest it. You want to eat it. This is God's living word that he gave to us so that we can grow and be transformed by it.
It's, this is the difference between our God and other gods out there, right? He is a living God who gives us life. His word. He's just not gonna fail us. He's gonna keep showing up and that's what I kept thinking about this hope thing this morning. Like you put your hope in yourself is basically what you're doing.
Well, you put your hope in your situation. You put hope in the world. You put hope in the people around you, but like we're in a fallen world and all of it fails all the time and you will never. It does. And you might have a string of successes, but what you said earlier is. Is it empty or is it satisfying?
I, like, was pretty New Age for a minute and, like, really explored that, like, fully and kind of didn't really, like, really believe in Jesus anymore at that point. Um, or, like, I did, but, like, it was my own version of Jesus and I think that's what a lot of, like, New Age is, like, the Christ consciousness or, like, whatever.
Um. There's this, like, hope that, like, this, this, like, information and, like, somehow you're so, like, self righteous that you get to, like, find wisdom further and deeper than anybody. And, like, you're more special and, like, more, more this, you know? And, and I think you can kind of see that with people that get sucked into, like, the, like, New Age cults and stuff, where they get sucked into, like, forbidden knowledge and all these things, and you gotta, like, earn it for yourself, so, like, the hope really is in you.
You know, in, in, in your ability to like go further into the spiritual realm and like be this type of person, you know, and, and, and also like, I had like moments where I felt like they were spiritual. Like, I felt like I was communicating with God, but like, yeah, I was, I was like in sin and like, it was dark and it was like.
And it was weird and it felt off, but like, it felt so right in the moment to me, you know, and that was a hope for me in that moment. Like, Oh, I'm on the right track because I had this spiritual experience, but it was nowhere near rooted in truth. Not all spiritual experiences are God. I'm, I have no doubt those were spiritual experiences.
No, for real. And I think a lot of people just like, except. Like, especially like when I was in that position, a lot of people think that like, because you had a spiritual experience, or maybe something positive happened from a spiritual experience, does not mean it's from God. It does not mean that, like, Jesus Christ, like, affirmed that for you, you know?
And there's a hope there that, like, I had, you know, that was like a false hope, and then you find false hope into false idols. Right. Or, or, or self. Yes. And then you start relying on that and it still comes up empty. And I think that's the difference is it always comes up empty. And I, I did notice like what you were talking about, that's a lot of pride, right?
You want to be special. You want to be elevated. You want all these things. And it feels good. And if you're, if you don't know any other type of way other than like, That mindset, like, that feels right to you to keep growing in that, you know? Well, that's how the world has taught us, right? You want to be number one.
You want to be noticed. You want to be famous, recognized, have lots of money. Every show, every person around you, almost, when you're in like that environment. No offense, but every rap song. Every rap song, like, all, yeah, especially you, like. Okay, not you, but like, I'm, I'm, uh, you know, like I've, I've been a rapper, like I've had like very explicit lyrics, but especially during like that time period of my life, it was about like me trying to be cool, trying to show like how cool I was or what type of person I was and like how like edgy I am, but when it was just so far from like who I was, you know, I'm not, I was never like that person and it did feel empty.
You know, when I look back at those songs, well, the music was good. Well, the music was good, but it did, it did feel like you weren't being yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it, and it felt empty. Like, it's so weird. So like, I'm always kind of like ahead of music, like, like not ahead of music, but like my music.
Right. So whatever I drop is kind of like further back. Um, then like, what is like when working on now and. Or whenever I was kind of like transitioning into like this mindset, and I was working on a song that like still had a cuss word in it, it just started to be like, oh, what is happening? And now when I listen to music, it's so weird.
And this is the, like, a big thing, like against legalism. I am not transforming myself to try and please God. Like, like, well, I want to please God, right? So like it naturally happens. But God is the one that's transforming me. And I'm not trying to like white knuckle my stuff anymore. And it's so weird how My perception of music and like how people present themselves in music is becoming so gross to me.
It is so like I can just feel the sin and the evil in it, especially when it's talking about, like, sexual innuendo, or, or just talking about how cool somebody thinks they are, or even about murder. It's just like, this is, like, cool to people now? Like, and, and this was cool to me once upon a time? Like, it's just, it's like, weird how, like, corny and gross it is, and how much people are just living for something that isn't who they were created to be, and it's really sad.
And, and it's sad to see, like, My old music and I just like reflect on it and I just kind of see a darker time You know of like, wow, that was, that was like, it just looks ugly. It feels ugly, you know, it feels gross. It's not, it feels like not who I'm supposed to be now. And, and then I was just kinda like, whatever , you know, I'd just be, yeah.
I'd just say cool stuff, you know, like whatever, . Well, and you didn't really wanna hear it from me? No. At that point, and I did pray about it a lot about, 'cause you were, you know, you were an adult at that point. Mm-hmm . And I do remember praying and God often told me. to be quiet. He's got it. Yeah. And, and that is so hard with your children.
Like, you know, I've prayed for you and your brother so much over the years and my best work comes in my silence because it is, you know, an encouragement and in silence. And I think. That is where the good happens, right? Cause I, I, it's not my job to transform you. It's my job to plant a seed and to guide you and to show you, and especially as an adult.
But it is kind of interesting that, and I'm not bragging, but. Everything I prayed for is happening and it's better and it's a better than I imagined. Yeah, yeah. Still. And, you know, I of course want, you know, God to continue to draw my children nearer to him. And that is my constant prayer. But, but I do want you to live out.
Who you were brought up and created to be yeah, and and there is a job in that right? There is a job in the music industry for you And it just doesn't look like how you thought it was going to when you started out. I have this friend who's like a new Christian and he's I just can kind of see him following in like some similar footsteps of like how I My ideology was before God and like how in music as well and then how he kind of transformed like Or like how I transformed like with music, right?
Like I'm like, if I want it to like worship God mostly, but sometimes like if I'm like in a secular song, like I want to hint at God a little bit or completely 100 percent honor God. And I'm seeing him like navigate this. I'm trying to like inform him and be like, bro, you know, like make it just like.
Honor God at least at the very minimum. Do you know what I mean? Just it has to like at least honor God, you know, like all the way through but I can kind of see like how he's He's like growing and like, um, to go into a position that maybe it wasn't how he expected it to be but it may be not be like so far off from like what he thought but like I could just see how like for me and like looking back.
It's it's a weird parallel and how I can kind of like, it's like I'm looking like a couple years ago, like down into like his, his journey a little bit. So isn't that interesting how you had a journey, went through it, and now you're shepherding another person through that? Because it always is that way, right?
All the things that we've learned and grown and been in pain for. is what we seem to want to help other people with. Mm hmm. And one thing I, like, me and him had in common, too, was, like, where we're placing our hope is, like, the, the hope of this working out. Like, like, in, in, in my future in music, or, like, my future for, like, what I can do for the world, or something, or, like, how I'm going to influence the world in some big way.
But it was always, like, about me achieving some success for something. And I don't think it's wrong to want success, but for whose, but for whose glory. Exactly. Exactly. And, and like, that's something that you just kind of always end up retraining your brain through. And I'm always kind of retraining my brain through to, to give him credit, you know?
And I think that's like always like a journey, but I can kind of see a lot more in the ways where like, it's easy to like grab credit. And for me now, I'm like starting to let it go a bit more and I can kind of see like the, the difference of like where it was before, but like where that hope of like, is the validation of like being this person or like, uh, the way I'm perceived of this success, also how I perceive myself off of success was never about like trying to glorify God, you know, but like that was my hope for me.
You know. It was to glorify you. It was, it was hope for me, not hope in him. Mmm. That's a good word. So, and I think that's the mindset that changes things, right? When we're like, okay, how do I glorify you God today? How do I put you first? How do I reflect Jesus and humble myself for you today? Mm hmm. What does that look like in my business, in my job?
Because you can sell insurance and glorify God. It doesn't have to be, you know, a podcast or a Christian bookstore. Yeah, exactly. You don't have to be like Joyce Meyer. Like, yeah, you can glorify God. in, in your day by, you know, acknowledging him and knowing who he is and sharing that with other people and reflecting him.
Mm hmm. Yeah. But I think it's the humility that's missing. Um, when I look at that initial conversation we were having about hope, where you're putting your hope. Yeah. It is, it is almost, you have got to get rid of that pride, which I know is the struggle of all of it, but, and to humble yourself and realize like, okay, God's way is better.
God does have the whole big blueprint and we just have the little bits and pieces and, and to trust him. And I think part of that problem is, is, you know, we could do podcast upon podcast about trusting God and why it's so hard for people, but. You know, if you're not in a space where you are trusting God, trust Him with a little.
Yeah. So, so it's interesting. Um, like, I think like me, um, and like a lot of people put hope in their plan to get somewhere. Um, and, or, or even like in the kingdom too, but like when you say, Start small. Um, I gave this advice earlier, but it was to, instead of trying to like, feel like you gotta like, sell all your Stuff and like give all your money away and do all these things and like perform for God in like this crazy way Inviting him in to just like what do you want to do together God today?
Like yes Like what's the schedule look like? Like it's more of like a partnership instead of me just to be like Everything's yours now so you can love me You know Right. And I get the inclination, right, to just want to do that, but, um, it's not probably realistic, especially for a brand new Christian. And it's probably not what, like, you're being called to.
He's even called to. It could be. It could be. And if it is, do it. Dude, it could be. It could be. Like, you, I feel like if it was, like you would, you would know. Yeah, it would be on your heart. It'd be on your heart. I mean, and this is the process of learning to know God and His voice, you know, is it His voice?
Well, get to know Him so you know His voice, because my sheep, my sheep know my voice. Moses, when they split the water, they didn't have to like, you know, he, he took a step and it was very like small and I think it's easy to kind of get overwhelmed for like the plans and like the things we have in our life, but like, instead of like putting hope in our plan and like these open things, putting our hope in God and just partnering with God and simplifying it to make it be like, let's just do it just today.
We only have today. You know, like right now, really, to work with God, today's like the day of salvation. Today's the moment to work with God. Right now is the moment to work with God. And there, it's okay to ask him for the bigger picture. Ask him for a vision of the future, but you know, his people perish because they don't know him or his word, but also they, they perish from a lack of vision.
I can't remember what book that's in. I want to say Micah, but, or Habakkuk, you, yeah, write down, write down your vision with God. Write it down. There's, there's scripture in here that will back me up and you can look it up yourself because I don't have it off the top of my head. I'd read the whole, just read the whole book.
That's my suggestion. And then you can, you can be a Berean and correct me if I'm wrong. You know, I've never read that one yet. Um, I want to, maybe that's a good one for me to check out. Somebody reminded me recently, um, I get really wrapped up in the minute by minute hearing from God. Like, cause I do, I do the day with Him, I do shipments with Him, I do, you know, cause I pray over things as we do them, that sometimes I forget to ask God for the bigger picture.
Where, where I'm struggling with something or with somebody that I'm trying to help. And we're just going through the moments because I'm counseling them in an area. Yeah. And I forget to ask for, Hey God, can you give me a vision of what this looks like at the end? And, and when I've done that in the past, like with your brother, I had a really big vision for him.
It gives you hope, right? And I, I can confidently rely on that hope because it's from God. I know it's from God cause I couldn't have come up with it too. It gives you hope when things are tough because we weren't guaranteed that this would all be comfortable and easy. Yeah. Right. Um, but also I know that my God doesn't fail and if he told me if it's in his word and he told me he doesn't fail.
And that gives me hope when it gets hard. Well, uh, make sure to subscribe, hit like, uh, please, so we can make more content like this and we'll see you on the next time. Thank you for joining us. God bless.