The Smoke Trail: S2 E53: Love at First Sound - Singer Songwriter Anitra Carr, Heartache Sky

THE SMOKE TRAIL  |  SEASON 2  |  EPISODE 53

Love at First Sound

Anitra Carr on the Voice, the Door Held Open, and Heartache Sky

Metadata

Episode: S2E53

Title: Love at First Sound

Subtitle: Anitra Carr on the Voice, the Door Held Open, and Heartache Sky

Guest: Anitra Carr, singer-songwriter, Siren Song Productions (Sedona, Arizona)

Runtime: 1:05:44

Recorded: In person, Sedona, September 2026

Release: September 2026, alongside the single Heartache Sky (out September 25, 2026)

Guest links: anitracarr.com, and the full list under Where to Find Anitra below

Episode Hook

After fifty-two episodes, Smoke’s guest is the person who has had the closest seat to every story he tells on this show: his wife, Anitra Carr. Singer-songwriter, stepmother to his four children, coach and spiritual guide, and the girl from the Bronx who became the girl from Sedona by way of Colorado, Indiana, and California.

They start in a first-grade church pew where a nun with a guitar called her up to sing, run through a Broadway cattle call for Annie, a ballet injury that turned into a commercial career, and a Denver band that won the town. Then the harder ground: her mother’s death, the years of numbing and then healing that followed, and a list written on a sailboat a month before Smoke walked into her restaurant and fumbled with the piano player’s microphone.

From there the conversation turns to the trail they walked together: Whistler, the burning of the forgiveness letters, the books she handed him, and how a Catholic schoolgirl found Deepak Chopra through Oprah. It closes on her new single, Heartache Sky, released with the harvest moon, a lightning round she did not see coming, a live pass through the Johari Window, and the one thing she wants every listener to hear: it is never too late.

In This Episode

•    Sister Eileen’s guitar, a park bench where the older kids made her sing for her curfew, and a church that was the only quiet place in her childhood

•    Six hundred girls at an open call for Annie on Broadway, and the singing partner who got the part

•    Ballet at Carnegie Hall, an injury, an agent, a Milton Bradley commercial, and the down payment that moved her family out of the Bronx

•    The Ryan Tracy Band, a Denver restaurant, and the ten months that changed everything

•    How she healed after her mother died, told plainly, including what she used to stop hurting

•    A sailing trip, a life coach, and the list of twenty-five things that brought Smoke a month later

•    Splendido, the piano player, the sound equipment, and the voice of an angel

•    The dinner where she told her father she was finally okay, two weeks before they met

•    Whistler: the intentions each of them wrote, and what the teacher said to Smoke

•    Burning the letters on her birthday, and the two books she gave him that day

•    Oprah, Deepak Chopra, The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, and a Buddhist practice that still holds

•    A neighbor’s gift of meditation at thirty, and the twenty-year wait for Smoke to read A New Earth

•    What a heartache sky is, why the cover is a moon and not a sun, and a release timed to the harvest moon

•    Dignity, Forevermore, and the album that grew out of two quiet years of writing

•    A lightning round on free will, evil, synchronicity, intuition, death, and true happiness

•    Her practice, her non-negotiables, and the meditation that needs no cushion

•    The Johari Window, applied live to a marriage

•    Where songs come from, and why you jump on an idea before it lands on someone else

•    Unconditional love on the Hawkins scale, currency as flow, the guitar in the closet, and what success looks like

Key Moments

00:28  Welcome

Smoke introduces a guest some listeners know as a singer-songwriter, some as stepmother to his four children, and some as the girl from the Bronx who kept moving west. He explains why he brought notes to interview his own wife: he does not want to assume what he knows, and he expects to learn something.

“Some of you know her as the girl from The Bronx, the girl from Colorado Mountains, the girl from Indiana, girl from California, now the girl from Sedona.”  Smoke

02:36  Sister Eileen’s Guitar

First grade, a nun with a guitar, and a little girl belting from the pew until she was called up to sing beside her. Church became the one quiet place in a loud childhood. Later the older kids on a park bench made her sing before she could go home, and curfew was not negotiable.

“I was singing for my life.”  Anitra

03:43  Six Hundred Girls and Annie

Just shy of thirteen and small for her age, she went with her cousins to an open cattle call for Annie on Broadway. Six hundred girls, a callback of seventy, then another and another. Her singing partner in the final group got the part.

“the gal that got chosen, Alison Smith, she was my singing partner.”  Anitra

05:31  Ballet, an Injury, and Bargain Hunter

A ballet company with classes in the Carnegie Hall building, then an injury, then a friend’s advice to get an agent. Catalog work, a J.C. Penney shoot, and a Milton Bradley commercial for a game called Bargain Hunter. The money was not a fortune, but it was a down payment.

“That’s helped my family move out of The Bronx.”  Anitra

09:01  The Restaurant, the Band, and Her Mother

Smoke skips ahead and she stops him. She and her first husband ran a Denver restaurant from 1995 to 2000. In those years her mother was diagnosed and died within ten months, a year after she lost a brother-in-law who was one of her closest friends. She sold the restaurant, moved back to Vail, and the band gave her an ultimatum.

“life’s really short. What are you doing?”  Anitra

10:28  How She Healed

Asked how she got through it, she answers without varnish: everything went numb, she was drinking heavily, and medicine work was one of the tools that brought her back toward love, peace, and forgiveness. Smoke adds what he has learned since about intention. She is candid that at the time she only wanted to stop hurting.

“I just wanted to not hurt.”  Anitra

13:08  The List

A last-minute spot on a sailing trip, a friend who was a life coach, and a question repeated until she answered it: what would it take? She wrote twenty-five things describing a companion she swore she would never look for. A month later Smoke walked in.

“Be very specific about what you’re asking the universe to give you.”  Anitra

15:05  Splendido

A YPO night at Splendido in Beaver Creek. Smoke paid the piano player to stay, bought the room champagne, and after the pianist left started messing with the sound equipment. The captain of the restaurant stepped in. There is a song about that night on an earlier album, Love’s Magic Night, and a line in Smoke’s book that gave this episode its title.

“all of a sudden I heard the voice of an angel in my ear.”  Smoke

17:44  The Cocoon

When her life broke open she spent two years in what she calls a cocoon: meditation, prayer, time in nature, and a busy life deliberately quieted. A few weeks before they met she had dinner with her father and told him she was finally well. Smoke arrived two weeks later, and she credits the frequency she was living at.

“I just want you to know that I’m okay now.”  Anitra

21:15  Whistler

After Nepal and an experience at the Buddha’s birthplace, a call came: their friends’ teachers, Ivan and Lana Rados, would be in Whistler. Would they sit in ceremony? She said yes at once. Her written intention was to be a beacon of love and light. His ran a full page, and the teacher pointed him to two words at the top and named his real problem.

“your problem is you don’t trust.”  Ivan Rados, as recalled by Smoke

24:47  Burning the Letters

Forgiveness, Smoke says, is easier to intend than to do. He worked with coaches, wrote letters, and burned them in ceremony in the backyard. It was her birthday. She brought him two books he had never read, the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita in Easwaran’s translations, and the Gita opened to selfless service.

“It was my birthday, and you brought me a couple of books.”  Smoke

26:15  Oprah, Deepak, and the Buddha

Smoke reads a line from a questionnaire she filled out for Season 1: the universe supports her completely. He asks how a Catholic schoolgirl found the Buddhas and the Love Lives Here sign he saw in her house. Her answer starts with drifting from the Church in the early nineties, an Oprah episode, and a guest named Deepak Chopra.

“it became my thing that brought me a lot of peace”  Anitra

28:21  A Gift of Meditation and A New Earth

She went on to complete three Chopra certifications, including Ayurveda. Meditation came earlier, a thirtieth-birthday gift from a next-door neighbor who had spent a year and a half trying to sell it to her. Years later Smoke came downstairs thrilled with a book he had just discovered. She had been trying to get him to read it for two decades.

“I tried to get you to read this twenty years ago.”  Anitra

30:54  Many Traditions, One Puzzle

Smoke describes going deep across the Christian mystics, the Buddhist teachings, Francis of Assisi, Advaita, and Kabbalah, and why he treats meditation, breath work, and contemplation as technologies refined over thousands of years. Nobody knows all of them best. Few have dug across all of them.

“these are all technologies that have been developed for thousands of years by humans”  Smoke

33:13  What Is a Heartache Sky

The album is finished and the title track is the single. The phrase arrived on a back porch, looking up. Two people missing each other are looking at the same sky. Smoke took the cover photo and points out that the sun on the horizon is a full moon rising, a lyric from Love’s Magic Night. The single releases on the harvest moon.

“they’re both looking up at the same sky.”  Anitra

35:07  Dignity and Forevermore

Dignity, written from Smoke’s poem Downtrodden Dignity for Dignity Moves, returns on the album in a reworked version. Forevermore began when a friend asked her to write a song for her wedding; the chorus arrived on a beach in Ventura, and it has now been sung at three weddings, including their youngest child’s.

“I read your poem and said that’s a song.”  Anitra

38:00  Lightning Round

Six words she had left blank on the questionnaire, answered cold. Free will: she chose her life. Evil: it exists, and love is the protection. Synchronicity: too many to list, and the one to tell will come when she stops trying. Intuition: a knowing, every hair standing up, the word claircognizant picked up listening to Sarah Elkhaldy. Death: no longer feared. True happiness: peace in her heart.

“Evil exists. And if we are in a place of love, we have protection.”  Anitra

41:32  The Gift

Her practice for listeners: get quiet with yourself, trust your inner voice when you decide, then do the work to heal. Her non-negotiables are quiet moments, meditation, and sunshine. Smoke adds one: sing a song alone this week. She adds the reminder that got her through her type-A years.

“When you don’t have the ability to meditate, breath is a meditation.”  Anitra

43:59  The Johari Window, Live

Smoke walks the season’s navigation tool through a marriage: a spouse is a walking Blind quadrant, and each sees what the other cannot. He reads her the Open quadrant as he wrote it. She hears herself described as an artist and guide in her own right, with her own account of their path.

“I’m not just in your movie.”  Anitra

46:37  Where a Melody Comes From

The Unknown quadrant. Neither of them can say where a song comes from. They recall a story from The Telepathy Tapes about an idea trying to be born, and she describes waking with whole songs and singing them into her own voicemail. Smoke turns it into a rule for any idea: act on it.

“it will emerge as someone else’s if you don’t do it.”  Smoke

48:27  Unconditional Love and the Portal

The first take-home lesson opens the Hawkins map: above 500 is the field of love, and at 540 and above, unconditional love, where you see the divine in everyone and everything. Not everyone will reach the consciousness of the Buddha or the Christ, and nobody needs to. This is reachable, and the hardest things in a life are the way in.

“those traumas, those difficulties are the portals to access unconditional love.”  Smoke

50:18  Currency Means Flow

One of her core wounds is lack: a childhood on and off food stamps with very young parents in survival mode, then years of big wins and big losses. The shift came when she learned that currency comes from the Latin word for flow, and her relationship with money changed. Smoke adds the paradox: things have never been more expensive and never more abundant, and both are true.

“I actually had all the money in the world and it just flows through me.”  Anitra

52:41  The Guitar in the Closet

The talent you shelved is still yours. Nearly everyone they meet once played something. Take it out of the closet and touch it for five minutes. She kept her music on the back burner through a van tour she never wanted and years of raising a family, and she asks listeners to support the people who chose the hard road.

“Go out and support live music.”  Anitra

55:24  It Is Never Too Late

Bonnie Raitt hit big past fifty. Sam Walton started late. She has no wild aspirations, only new songs, and a message for anyone who hears this and feels the pull.

“it’s never too late.”  Anitra

55:56  What Success Looks Like

A forum sister asked her what success would look like, since posting on social media is the hardest part for her. Her answer surprised her with how good it felt. She credits her producer and co-writer, David Vito Gregoli, with making her better.

“Success is I wrote a bunch of songs. And I recorded them and I have an album.”  Anitra

58:14  Gratitude

Asked what they missed, she answers with thanks: for the work he did on himself when everything cracked open and the ground felt like sand, for his commitment to a higher power, and for a podcast she watched him wing for a year and a half before she was willing to sit in the chair.

“you’re not afraid to give your gifts to the world.”  Anitra

1:00:56  Heartache Sky

Where to find her, a legacy of love and kindness, and the episode closes on the single itself.

“Sending you all love and light”  Smoke

Standout Quotes

“I got everything on the list plus four kids, an untrained beagle, and a really crazy divorce.”  Anitra Carr

“it was probably the only quiet place in my life was church.”  Anitra Carr

“I believe everything now.”  Anitra Carr, on death

“feeling peace in my heart is. That’s happiness.”  Anitra Carr

“Love exists everywhere permeating everything, but it gets blocked.”  Smoke Wallin

“the ability to hold paradox is a core muscle strength of raising one’s consciousness.”  Smoke Wallin

“Whatever talent you have is available to you and can be resurfaced.”  Smoke Wallin

“I don’t wanna be in van with anybody”  Anitra Carr, on the touring life

“your breath is always with you.”  Anitra Carr

Johari Thread

The Johari Window is the season’s master navigation tool. Here is what this conversation moved into the Open quadrant.

Hidden to Open

•    Anitra names the numb years after her mother’s death, including the drinking and the medicine work, and says plainly that she wanted only to stop hurting.

•    She reads out the origin of the list: twenty-five things, written on a boat, after swearing she would never marry again.

•    She names her core wound of lack, the food stamps, the young parents in survival mode, and the moment the word currency changed her relationship with money.

•    She admits she once quieted her own claircognizance because it sounded obnoxious, and that she has been afraid of death and is not anymore.

•    Smoke names his own trust wound as the teacher named it in Whistler.

Blind to Open

•    Smoke reads out his Open quadrant for her: on his pages, the one who stayed; in life, an artist and a guide, not a supporting character. Her reply, that she is not just in his movie, is the point of the exercise.

•    She tells him what she saw during his hard labor in ceremony while she was in bliss, and what it cost to stay while the ground under him turned to sand.

•    He tells her that her hunger for the touring life ended long before her talent did, and that the talent is intact.

Unknown to Open

•    Where a melody comes from stays unknown, and both of them say so. What moves into the light is the practice: when the song arrives at 3 a.m., sing it into the phone before it leaves.

Still Hidden by design: the details of Smoke’s childhood trauma, the years between Splendido and Sedona, and the Ryan Tracy Band stories. All three are named as material for another conversation.

Take-Home Lessons

•    Unconditional love does not fix, threaten, or keep score. It stays. If someone stayed for you, tell them this week.

•    Be specific with the universe. A vague wish returns a vague life. A list of twenty-five things returned a husband, four kids, and a beagle.

•    Currency means flow. Grip it and it stalls. Loosen the hand before you raise the target.

•    The talent you shelved is still yours. Ten minutes, for no one but yourself.

•    Heartache is weather, not climate. Name it, feel it, and let it pass through.

•    Before the next big decision, sit in silence until the noise drops. Then trust what is left. There are no wrong decisions, only unheard ones.

•    Breath is a meditation. At a stop sign, in a hard meeting, in grief. It goes where you go.

•    Act on the idea. A song, a venture, a poem. If you do not bring it through, it will find someone who will.

•    It is never too late. Bonnie Raitt at fifty. Sam Walton at fifty. An album written in two quiet years.

Tools and References

•    Heartache Sky. Anitra’s new single, timed to the harvest moon of September 25, 2026, and the title track of her forthcoming album. Produced and co-written with David Vito Gregoli.

•    Love’s Magic Night. The song about the night they met, from an earlier album, on Spotify.

•    Dignity and Dignity Moves. Her single born of Smoke’s poem, Downtrodden Dignity, in support of the nonprofit serving the unsheltered. A reworked version appears on the album.

•    Forevermore. Written for a friend’s wedding, since sung at three.

•    The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, Deepak Chopra. The book that opened her path after an Oprah episode in the early nineties. She later completed three Chopra certifications, including Ayurveda.

•    Transcendental Meditation. A thirtieth-birthday gift from her next-door neighbor, and the practice that quieted the noise.

•    A New Earth and The Power of Now, Eckhart Tolle. Twenty years on her shelf before Smoke found them.

•    The Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita, Eknath Easwaran translations. Her birthday gift on the day he burned the forgiveness letters; the Gita opened to the chapter on selfless service.

•    The Hawkins Map of Consciousness. Love above 500, unconditional love at 540 and above.

•    The Johari Window. The season’s navigation tool, applied live to a marriage.

•    Claircognizance. The word for her kind of knowing, picked up listening to Sarah Elkhaldy, The Alchemist (Season 1, Episode 24; two seasons on Gaia; book forthcoming).

•    The Telepathy Tapes, Season 2. The podcast whose second season gave them the story they recall about where ideas come from.

•    Ivan and Lana Rados. The teachers who sat with them in Whistler. Ivan appeared on Season 1, Episode 11.

•    Dani Brooks. The coach who helped Smoke reach forgiveness. Season 1, Episode 10 and Season 2, Episode 49.

•    Smoke’s traditions. Meister Eckhart, James Finley, Thomas Merton, The Cloud of Unknowing, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila, Francis of Assisi, the Buddha, Advaita, and Kabbalah.

•    Psalm 40:3. And he hath put a new song in my mouth.

•    The Ryan Tracy Band. Denver, named Westword’s Best Pop/Rock Band in 2001.

•    Bargain Hunter, Milton Bradley. The commercial from her modeling years.

•    A Smoke Trail to the Fire Inside. Smoke’s forthcoming book, where the night at Splendido is told.

Where to Find Anitra

Anitra Carr, Singer / Songwriter, Siren Song Productions

Website: https://anitracarr.com/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/6qB9wBYpidxuG3oU5Q831X

Apple Music: https://music.apple.com/us/artist/anitra-carr/337502746

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@AnitraCarr

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/anitrasings/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anitracarrsings/

Heartache Sky is available everywhere music streams from September 25, 2026.

YouTube Chapters

0:00:00  Welcome

0:02:36  Sister Eileen’s Guitar

0:03:43  Six Hundred Girls and Annie

0:05:31  Ballet, an Injury, and Bargain Hunter

0:09:01  The Restaurant, the Band, and Her Mother

0:10:28  How She Healed

0:13:08  The List

0:15:05  Splendido

0:17:44  The Cocoon

0:21:15  Whistler

0:24:47  Burning the Letters

0:26:15  Oprah, Deepak, and the Buddha

0:28:21  A Gift of Meditation and A New Earth

0:30:54  Many Traditions, One Puzzle

0:33:13  What Is a Heartache Sky

0:35:07  Dignity and Forevermore

0:38:00  Lightning Round

0:41:32  The Gift

0:43:59  The Johari Window, Live

0:46:37  Where a Melody Comes From

0:48:27  Unconditional Love and the Portal

0:50:18  Currency Means Flow

0:52:41  The Guitar in the Closet

0:55:24  It Is Never Too Late

0:55:56  What Success Looks Like

0:58:14  Gratitude

1:00:56  Heartache Sky

What is The Smoke Trail?

The Smoke Trail, hosted by Smoke Wallin, is a journey into awakening consciousness, weaving authentic stories and deep discussions with inspiring guests to unlock high performance and perfect health. Each episode delves into spirituality, leadership, and transformation, offering tools to transcend trauma and find your bliss along the way. It’s a reflective space for achieving peak potential and inner peace in a distraction-filled world.

Anitra: 00:00

Oh,

Anitra: 00:07

my

Anitra: 00:07

darling lost. Where half gone?

Smoke: 00:22

Welcome

Anitra: 00:23

been to the too long.

Anitra: 00:24

Well, thank you, Smoke. It's a pleasure to

Anitra: 00:27

be here.

Smoke: 00:28

This is a very special episode of The Smoke Trail. After 52 prior episodes, I finally have the esteemed Anitra Carr Wallin

Anitra: 00:40

Thank you.

Smoke: 00:41

As my guest. And some of you know that Anitra has been a big part of my spiritual journey from the beginning. Some of you know that Anitra is a singer songwriter. Some of you know that she's very spiritual on her own and has done a ton of her own journeying and work. We're gonna get into some of those things today.

Smoke: 01:01

Some of you know her as stepmom to my four kids.

Anitra: 01:04

One of my greatest roles in life,

Smoke: 01:07

for sure. Some of you know her as the girl from The Bronx, the girl from Colorado Mountains, the girl from Indiana, girl from California, now the girl from Sedona.

Anitra: 01:16

That's true. I've been all over. The gypsy.

Smoke: 01:19

And, you know, for those throwback folks that were from the Denver days, you guys had a band, the Ryan Tracy band

Anitra: 01:26

Oh, yeah.

Smoke: 01:27

Which was named best pop band of that era.

Anitra: 01:30

Yeah. So we were gosh. Ryan Tracy is a dear friend of mine. We started up this thing, and it was a great time to be in music in in Denver. The town was wild, and the clubs were packed with people going to see live music.

Anitra: 01:44

And, yeah, it was definitely, like, one of those stick a pin in it moments in my life for sure. Right before I met you?

Smoke: 01:50

Yeah. And we'll get we'll get into some of that. And, you know, this is more I think more about your music and what you're doing today and who you are as a person today. But I think it would be remiss if we didn't bring some of those stories in and some of the journey we've had together because it's been a big part of our life together.

Anitra: 02:08

For sure.

Smoke: 02:08

And I'm I'm using notes. You might say, well, why would he need notes with Anitra? Well, because I don't wanna assume. I don't wanna assume things I think I know that I may hear from Anitra. I think I'll learn some things in our conversation.

Smoke: 02:22

I don't wanna assume there's things that you all know about us or about her. So I'm just trying to keep it organized a bit so that we can kinda hit some important topics, and then we'll just see where it goes.

Anitra: 02:34

That should be fun. Okay. Buckle up, baby.

Smoke: 02:36

So I'm gonna start at the beginning.

Anitra: 02:38

Just start.

Smoke: 02:38

You were a little girl, and they put you up on a in church Mhmm. Up on a on a bench or a stool or

Anitra: 02:45

You got, like, a yeah. I think you have three stories together Okay. As much.

Smoke: 02:48

Well, how did how did this whole singing thing start?

Anitra: 02:51

Gosh. First grade, we were singing, and sister Aileen played the guitar. And I think her sister Helen might have played with her. And I just remember belting it out, like, the top of my lungs just singing, singing, singing. And eventually, one day, she said, hey.

Anitra: 03:07

Would you why don't you come out up here and sing with me here? And that's where it started. And I really got into singing all the church songs. I loved going to church. And I thought about it recently because it was probably the only quiet place in my life was church.

Anitra: 03:21

And then and then it went from there, talent shows and gosh. And the thing you're thinking about is the park bench where the older kids would make me sing a song before I would be allowed to go home. And I would sing it because if I was late for curfew, I'd be grounded. So it was

Smoke: 03:38

So you had

Anitra: 03:39

to sing hectic

Smoke: 03:40

day. Sing for your life.

Anitra: 03:41

I I did. I was singing for my life.

Smoke: 03:43

I know that when you were something like 10 years old or or something like that age, you you tried out you were doing commercials and things. You tried out for Broadway. Mhmm. And and you were up for Annie at one point.

Anitra: 03:56

Yeah. It was really cool. My my I think my cousin is the one who told me about it. My cousin, Kathy McNally. I'll give her a shout out.

Anitra: 04:04

There was an open what they called it was an open cattle call at the theater that had Annie on Broadway. And and we went. It was me. A bunch of my cousins went. It was, 600 other girls.

Anitra: 04:17

I think was, like, 660 girls showed up to try and sing Annie. And I I think I was probably 12 or almost 13. It was right before my thirteenth birthday or something like that. And I was really tiny at the time. They were looking for someone who would be from eight to 12.

Anitra: 04:31

And I think I was at the cap of the age group, but because they wanna be able to have Annie for a long time. And, yeah, like, they they kinda put you up on stage, and they divide you up in groups, and they tell you what section of the song to sing. And and they either say, stay or go. And after my audition, I got to stay. And so they they did a callback of about 70 girls and then which was just a kinda surreal, like, to just even have that experience.

Anitra: 05:00

And then and then there was a callback and another callback. And while we were there, they kept weaning down the group. And I say my claim to fame about it was that the gal that got chosen, Alison Smith, she was my singing partner. So where I was doing part the third part of the song, she was doing the fourth, and then they would, like, switch us and stuff. And anyway

Smoke: 05:24

Do got any any in you today?

Anitra: 05:26

The sun will come out. Yeah. That's good. That's been that that ship has sailed.

Smoke: 05:31

Alright. We're gonna get into some of the more current things. But, you know, I I think it's a cool story that you have told before, but maybe not on in a situation like this, where you were pretty serious about ballet. You were taking a bus in the city. You were doing ballet, and then you had a pretty significant injury.

Smoke: 05:49

Mhmm. And while you were trying to recover, somebody told you, hey. You should go do some commercials. Yeah. So you started trying out for commercials.

Anitra: 05:57

She told me this this girl, Andrea, told me that I needed to get an agent. So I was in a ballet company. It was called Newbert Ballet Company. We we had our classes in the off in the building of Carnegie Hall, which is kinda cool. And even though I was injured because I was part of the company, I would have to show up.

Anitra: 06:15

You show up for class anyway, and you're just there. You're part of the group. And when that girl mentioned it to me, I was like, oh, that's kinda cool. So I did a little homework and someone I knew in The Bronx, you know, gave me some guidance. And I got an agent and I started doing some modeling.

Anitra: 06:31

Did, gosh, I think my first job was with Montgomery Ward catalog and oh, with the little boy Danny who was on what's that show with Tony Danza? Do you remember that Yeah. The little baby the little boy Danny.

Smoke: 06:48

Yeah. That was a

Anitra: 06:49

good one. That was it. Yeah. We had

Anitra: 06:50

a I

Anitra: 06:50

had a gig with that kid. He was so little at the time. I did that, and then I did, think, JCPenney Underoos. I was wearing, like, r two d two or something.

Smoke: 06:59

Show everybody some

Anitra: 06:59

of No. No. Again, another ship that sailed. But Well, and you did So it was just

Anitra: 07:04

like did

Smoke: 07:04

a Milton Bradley game, maybe I'll I'll put add a clip to this so you Oh,

Anitra: 07:09

that'd be funny. Yeah. Show. Yeah. Where

Milton Bradley Game: 07:12

are the Davidsons? They're at home looking for bargains. That's Bobby with a stove, radio, and booster. And Jane has a dresser, clock, and a dog.

Smoke: 07:23

It's the exciting game called Bargain Hunter. Makes us really hunt out bargains. Handle money.

Anitra: 07:28

Hand gives us each a credit card too. And a credit card machine to run it through.

Milton Bradley Game: 07:33

First to furnish their apartment and be out of debt wins Bargain Hunter. And

Anitra: 07:37

that's me.

Milton Bradley Game: 07:38

Bargain Hunter, the Bargains game from Milton Bradley.

Anitra: 07:41

But that was a that was a really cool experience.

Smoke: 07:42

You you started making some pretty good money back then.

Anitra: 07:46

Yeah.

Smoke: 07:47

And I my the story that I I received was, you know, that helped with the down payment to get a house in Long Island and move out of The Bronx.

Anitra: 07:56

Move out of that. That's helped my family move out of The Bronx. It wasn't like a ton of money, but back then, it was it was substantial. And

Smoke: 08:02

Listen. Down payment is a down payment.

Anitra: 08:03

I think, you know, we lived in an apartment in The Bronx on Barnes Avenue near you know, there were a couple robberies, I think, in one week, and my father was like, that's it. We're out of here. And, you know, four little girls in The Bronx, you know, I mean, hard to save any money, I imagine. So we were able to get it together and, you know, how that works, family kicking in. And

Smoke: 08:27

Alright. I'm gonna fast forward. Yeah. You've we both had

Anitra: 08:30

So funny to talk about

Smoke: 08:32

lives and things, and there's all kinds of adventures that we can't cover here.

Anitra: 08:36

Right.

Smoke: 08:37

In in this short format. Right. Can come back and talk about some of this stuff. We won't really get into a lot of the Ryan Tracy stuff, but, you know, you had a a band that was touring and doing all kinds of stuff.

Anitra: 08:48

That was a long time ago.

Smoke: 08:49

Yeah. Know. And and then you had left the band, left your first husband, Michael, who's our friend, and moved out of Denver, you were living up in Beaver Creek. We had Splendido.

Anitra: 09:00

Alright. So so there was a few things that kinda you missed an important part.

Smoke: 09:05

Okay. Well, please correct me.

Anitra: 09:08

Well, you know I will.

Smoke: 09:08

Thank you.

Anitra: 09:09

Yeah. My mom I had Michael and I had a restaurant in Denver, Colorado from '95 to 2000. And during that time, my mom got sick and she died. And like everything kind of shifted and changed for me around then. And then eventually sold the restaurant.

Anitra: 09:28

Mike and I went our separate ways. And then I moved back to Vail, Colorado to, you know, kinda start my life over again. And it was at that time that my band basically gave me an ultimatum of either you come back to Denver or you're out of the band kinda thing. And yeah. Bygones.

Anitra: 09:52

But it was it was really it was brutal. So I was I was out.

Smoke: 09:54

And, obviously, of all those things, lots all those things were meaningful to you, but losing your mom was was a massive change to you and You world to your guys were really close. You're the oldest. And so when you lost her, and it was I know she she had a when she was diagnosed with cancer, it was a short window. And so from the time

Anitra: 10:15

Ten months.

Smoke: 10:16

To the end, it was ten months, was basically what they said. Mhmm. So you had some time to say goodbye, but how did you heal? How did you get beyond that before you before we get to the next chapter? Like, what did you do that helped you?

Anitra: 10:28

Well, MDMA was a medicine that I basically took. I was, you know, it was kind of a party drug at the time, and it's just gosh. That's a funny way to talk about it. Yeah. You know, after my mom died, everything just kinda was numb.

Anitra: 10:46

I had lost my brother-in-law, my former brother-in-law, who was one of my best friends the year prior, Lee Smith, and then and then my mom. And and, yeah, I I kind of I think I feel like everything went numb for a while. And I realized I didn't wanna be doing the restaurant anymore, and I didn't wanna be living the life I was living. I think I realized, you know, it was kind of that moment of at least for me, it was life's really short. What are you doing?

Anitra: 11:14

And I was really unhappy. And yeah. So kind of cleaned up things. Did and then and I think MDMA was one of the helpful tools that helped me. I don't know what it did to my brain, but it brought me to a pay a place of, you know, love and peace and forgiveness and all the things.

Smoke: 11:34

Well, my understanding of it having, you know, participated in it later, you know, is that it's a, you know, significant heart opening medicine. And, you know, obviously, anything can be used for partying and also for healing. But in this case, you know, if you are using it to reflect on your own traumatic experiences, things you're dealing with, things you're trying to work through, and you and you sincerely, your intent is to is to address them, is to be present with them, and to try to gain some next level of understanding from whatever that trauma might be, that it's a powerful tool for that. It only works if the person is goes into it with the right mindset, has that strong intention, and is doing it for that purpose. But it with those things are aligned, it's quite powerful.

Smoke: 12:25

Mhmm. And so that helped you quite a bit in that at that time.

Anitra: 12:28

I don't know if I did it with that intention. I just wanted to not hurt.

Smoke: 12:32

Mhmm.

Anitra: 12:33

You know? I think I think there was I used to also drink very heavily. So it was like, you know, a lot of things to numb the you know, make, know, just kinda make me feel better, you know, numb it all. So it was an interesting time.

Smoke: 12:48

Yeah. So I think this is an important aspect because, you know, we're gonna we're gonna tell a little bit of our our meeting and our romance story because it it's why we're together here today. But also, I think it is a interesting lens into how someone heals and how someone attracts what that which they really want. And so the funny aspect, and you can correct me and tell it the way you wanna tell it, but Anitra went on a girl's sailing trip as a last minute substitution. She went with a bunch of people.

Smoke: 13:17

It was a life changing trip, and she was there with one of her friends who was a life coach.

Anitra: 13:22

And Tasha Dimling.

Smoke: 13:23

Yeah. And they were talking about, you know, things. And Tasha's, you know, said, well, what would it take? What would it take? And, you know

Anitra: 13:30

Tasha Tasha was trying to get me to hire her to be my life coach. And I was teasing her, telling her I was her life coach. And so now it's about we're about six months after the sailing trip. I have kind of cleared all so much. I feel I felt like I had found this profound peace on this trip, and I with my best buddy, captain Kaz.

Anitra: 13:52

And and Tasha and I were talking, and and she's like, she was asking me if I ever wanted to, you know, get married again or anything. And I and my whole take was never, never, never, never, which I've learned never say never because universal basically go, oh, really? But she said, what would it take? What would it take? And and I was like, well, I don't know.

Anitra: 14:14

You know? And then finally, she said, make a list. And I did. I wrote a list of about had to be about 25 things describing what it would take and what I was looking for in a companion if I were to ever have a companion again. And and so, yeah, so I wrote the list.

Anitra: 14:32

And then about a month later, you walked into my life.

Smoke: 14:36

And I had everything on the list.

Anitra: 14:38

I think you did. I have to dig it up. I haven't found I haven't looked for it in a long time. It's probably in my old memory

Smoke: 14:43

box Plus more. And

Anitra: 14:44

Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. Plus well, yeah, I got everything on the list plus four kids, an untrained beagle, and a really crazy divorce.

Smoke: 14:53

Yeah. Yeah. So the lesson there is be Be very specific. Yeah. With what you wish.

Anitra: 14:58

Yeah. With what you wanna manifest. Yeah. It's true. I live my life that way.

Anitra: 15:01

Be very specific about what you're asking the universe to give you. That's it.

Smoke: 15:05

So, you know, this is in my book my forthcoming book, but I say this, I've said this before, but, you know, we met at at Splendido. I was there with my YPO chapter and

Anitra: 15:16

Splendido at Chateau.

Smoke: 15:18

In Crete. And playing music with a bunch of people and listening to music and causing a ruckus. And Anitra ended up kind of intervening, stepping in to protect the equipment and the piano and things that we were messing with.

Anitra: 15:30

Yeah. And and Smoke base Smoke basically took charge of the room, paid the piano player to stay longer, bought champagne for the place, like, really threw a party, and and then started messing with the sound equipment after the piano player left. And I stepped in and said, hey. Can't touch that. Began a friendship right there.

Smoke: 15:50

Yeah. And and so that was a crazy night. There's a song about it from a prior album.

Anitra: 15:56

It's called Love's Magic Love's

Smoke: 15:58

Magic Night. You can find it on Spotify. It's a song about that night we met. So you can get the whole story in the song, essentially. But, essentially, we were all singing around this piano with trying to play music on the laptop, but it wasn't really working.

Smoke: 16:10

And all of a sudden all of a sudden, I heard the voice of an angel in my ear. So, you know, there's no other way to describe it. It was love at first sound, which is the title of this episode.

Anitra: 16:22

Thank you. I love that you say that.

Smoke: 16:25

And we're gonna we're gonna roll into some music and some some more current stuff, but here's a quote from Psalm 43. And he hath put a new song in my mouth.

Anitra: 16:37

Love is magic knights.

Smoke: 16:39

Yes. Indeed. So that led to quite a romance, and and we've been together ever since. And this episode is not about all the time in between, but I think, you know, what the way I would describe it in terms of as it relates to my healing journey and your healing journey is that you did a lot of healing when your mom died and got yourself kind of in a better place. I had a lot of trauma and very trauma that I had jumped over, so skipped.

Anitra: 17:07

Kind of.

Smoke: 17:07

Buried buried in my

Anitra: 17:08

memory. In some way.

Smoke: 17:09

Kind of. And, you know, on the surface, I had quite a, you know, successful career, a lot of cool stuff happening in in a business, had great kids. I loved my kids. I had divorced or my marriage was was tumultuous at that time. We got married really young, and both of us had a lot of growing up to do.

Smoke: 17:27

And and so when you but when you came, you came with what I I felt was I perceived as unconditional love. And you didn't show up trying to change me or try to fix me, but you had done more healing than I had done.

Anitra: 17:42

Okay.

Smoke: 17:43

My perception.

Anitra: 17:44

Yeah. You know, I spent I guess, when when my life broke open, I spent a couple of years really I don't wanna say, maybe kinda cocooning, kind of just got really very much into meditation and prayer and time in nature and doing all the things that quieted things for me. I quieted my life. I had a pretty big, crazy, busy life. And then kind of it all broke away.

Anitra: 18:12

And so when I met you actually, a few weeks before I met you, I had dinner with my dad, and my dad had re had he remarried? He had just remarried by then. And I went and had dinner with them, and I I said, hey. I just want you to know that I'm okay now. Like, I'm I'm good.

Anitra: 18:29

I'm happy. And I said, if I if I die tomorrow, I just want you to know, like, I am the best I've ever been. And he, of course, he was like, well, don't go dying. You know? And I'm like, no.

Anitra: 18:39

No. I don't plan on it. But but I had expressed it. I had told him, I'm like, man, I like, I had never felt better in my life. And a couple weeks later, I met you.

Anitra: 18:48

So I kinda think that that has it's part of that frequency and the vibration of where I was, and I was in a place of peace and love and open heartedness, something that I have worked towards embodying ever since I found it.

Smoke: 19:07

Yeah. And you embody it. And

Anitra: 19:09

When I'm not crazy.

Smoke: 19:10

When your screw is not loose.

Anitra: 19:11

When my screw is not loose. Yeah. That was a

Smoke: 19:13

great song. Mhmm. We're gonna do another song for

Anitra: 19:16

sing that one? No. I didn't do that one. Oh, No. I no.

Smoke: 19:18

Maybe we should get a little glimpse of that.

Anitra: 19:20

I'll do I'll I'll I can. Yeah. Not right now. Right now,

Smoke: 19:22

you Yeah. I think we need some music to break up the conversation.

Anitra: 19:25

Yeah. Is this conversation going well?

Smoke: 19:27

I think it is going well. It's just You

Anitra: 19:29

should have a glass of wine maybe. I won't be so stiff.

Smoke: 19:31

No. You're not. You're good.

Anitra: 19:32

Should we say that I usually hire guitar players, and I'm really working on being my own guitar player?

Smoke: 19:37

No. You should just play it.

Anitra: 19:38

Okay. Let's see. The door won't shut. It's off the hinge. I'm starving now.

Anitra: 19:45

Going back to binge. I gotta screw. My heart's about to fall apart. I'll take the pieces and make some art. I gotta screw the wall.

Smoke: 19:55

It it's it's a great song.

Anitra: 19:57

It's One screw the wall.

Smoke: 19:58

It's a lot of fun.

Anitra: 19:59

And it's all a little off. So

Anitra: 20:04

The door won't shut. It's off the hinge. I'm starving now. Going back to binge, I've gotta screw loose. My heart's about to fall apart.

Anitra: 20:18

I'll take the pieces and make some art. I gotta screw loose.

Anitra: 20:26

One screw loose, then it's all a little off. Hanging my threads, my mind's

Smoke: 20:40

So we're gonna kinda move this along into, you know, some of the healing journey and then and then get into more of the music and the album that you're Okay. Coming out. Right?

Anitra: 20:50

So Sure.

Smoke: 20:51

So I'm gonna kind of

Anitra: 20:52

in the lines

Smoke: 20:53

rain the sand a little bit. We we could tell a lot of stories, but that time. You know, we we all go through these, like, I think these moments and cycles of having more connection to the divine and less connection to divine. And so, you know, and you can have, you know, we can take two steps forward and three steps back, and then we can jump forward. So I think this happens throughout people's lives, and definitely happened throughout mine.

Smoke: 21:15

But, you know, after I went to Nepal and had the experience at Buddhist Birthplace and had the Kundalini experience and the the I didn't know what it was, but I was like, okay. Something interesting just happened. And then we were planning to visit our dear friends in Whistler. And and before that visit, we got a call. I got a call and said, hey.

Smoke: 21:40

Our spiritual teacher, Yvonne and Lana, are gonna be around that weekend, and you're coming. Would you be interested in sitting with them and sitting with them with medicine? And I was like, interesting. Cool. I didn't really think much about it.

Smoke: 21:52

I told you about it. You said, Yes.

Anitra: 21:54

Absolutely.

Smoke: 21:54

You said, Absolutely, let's do it. So we go to Whistler. We did some pre work planning, and we sat with plant medicine. We had psilocybin and MDMA combination, and in a ceremonial situation, very private.

Anitra: 22:10

Very intentional.

Smoke: 22:12

Very intentional. And we both had to write down things, and I can't remember what you wrote down. Do you?

Anitra: 22:19

I talked to just about being a beacon of love and light and asking if there was more that I needed to know and more that I needed to clear to for for it to come.

Smoke: 22:31

And I wrote a whole page of stuff, and Yvonne looked at it, and it goes, that's all nice, but it was mostly about kids and family and work and all kinds of things that I had had great intentions, but they were external. And at the top, I had written peace and love, which is the thing that I had in my prayer to the Buddha, I had said. And he said, you know, don't worry about this stuff. This and he pointed to peace and love, and he's like, this is just focus on that. And and then he turned to me, and this is in my talk, and so you may have heard this before, but he said, you'd your problem is you don't trust.

Smoke: 23:07

You don't trust others, and you don't trust yourself. And I was like, what?

Anitra: 23:11

Like You get all defensive. You're like, what do

Smoke: 23:13

you mean? I said, what

Anitra: 23:13

do you

Smoke: 23:13

mean I trust? And, anyway, that was what led us to the medicine. So we did this ceremony, and, you know, let's call it seven, eight hours of of pretty, pretty deep medicine work. And I went through what I guess you could call hard labor of opening up trauma and

Anitra: 23:31

And it sounded experiencing like you were having a hard time.

Smoke: 23:33

Yeah. There was a lot going on.

Anitra: 23:35

Breathing and

Smoke: 23:35

We're not gonna Yeah. Spend a lot of time on that. But you, on the other hand, were, like, surrounded by angels.

Anitra: 23:41

Yeah. I had a beautiful blissful experience.

Smoke: 23:43

You know? You're like and at some point, you, like, looked up. What's wrong? What's wrong with him?

Anitra: 23:47

Right. And then I started sending you a bunch of healing energy.

Smoke: 23:50

Yeah.

Anitra: 23:50

Yeah. Yeah.

Smoke: 23:51

Yeah. But we had very different experiences. Yeah. So, that led to a lot of work on both of our parts, but my part, a lot of work. And in uncovering the trauma, I had to try to figure out what the, you know, somehow I knew that it came to me that I had to forgive all of the things that I had brought up.

Smoke: 24:17

And so it was part of my process of opening up trauma was my own agreement to forgive if I could remember. So, I wanted to remember, and I said I would forgive, and that just came to me. No one told me that, but it just came to me naturally. But doing it and and wanting to do it are two different things.

Anitra: 24:34

All integrating like, saying that you're doing integration and that you're actually doing that work and doing it are two different things.

Smoke: 24:41

Yeah. And and you can say you wanna forgive because you think it's the right thing to do, and then but actually being able to is not as easy. So, you know, I worked with coaches. Danny's been on the the podcast.

Anitra: 24:52

She's awesome.

Smoke: 24:53

Did a lot of exercises that helped me get to, you know, forgiveness and burning letters and all this stuff. And on the day I burned those letters in ceremony in our backyard

Anitra: 25:02

It was your birthday.

Smoke: 25:03

It was my birthday, and you brought me a couple of books. And you brought me S. Warren, the the author's Upanishads, and the Bhagavad Gita. And neither of which I had read, but I was showing interest in in that stuff. And you brought those to me, and I think I opened up the Upanishads, and I got

Anitra: 25:20

Something on chapter four, and it basically laid

Smoke: 25:22

Selfless it all service. Yeah. That has resonated ever since with But I thought that was pretty powerful. Alright. Covered all out of this.

Anitra: 25:31

You know, you talk about the journey in Nepal and you feeling the energy and that that was the beginning for you. And I think the beginning was when we met.

Smoke: 25:44

Yeah. Well, I don't think that was the beginning for me. I think the beginning was way, way even in childhood, because I had a lot of experiences that I now recall. Oh, yeah. But I think the beginning of this phase of my awakening was that.

Anitra: 25:58

Mhmm.

Smoke: 25:59

But certainly, there was another version of it that was when we met, and I was writing poetry and

Anitra: 26:03

That was what I was that was what I was referring to, that that you started writing poetry. We're just having a different alignment, and the ebb and flow of it coming and going. You know?

Smoke: 26:15

You know, one the things you've said, one of your quotes is, but the universe supports me completely, and I am walking poster child for leading and leaning in with love and kindness. I agree with that. I think that's true.

Anitra: 26:26

Where's that from?

Smoke: 26:27

Something you wrote.

Anitra: 26:28

Oh, you're going back from that, the original, when you first asked me to come on the podcast in season one, and you had me fill out a questionnaire. I didn't know you were gonna be bringing that up.

Smoke: 26:40

You wrote that you've always felt connected, protected, and guided always, even in Always.

Anitra: 26:45

Always.

Smoke: 26:45

And I when I met you, you were you had Buddhas in the house. You had signs that read, love lives here. How did a Catholic school girl find the Buddhist teachings?

Anitra: 26:57

Oh, good question. I had kind of gotten away from the Catholic church when a lot of the stuff kind of came out around, you know, what was going on with the priests for a while. And so I got away from church, although I would still go to church. Okay, so it was in the '90s, so we're in the '90s here, and it's like early '90s. Oprah Winfrey had a great talk show, and she started going through like an awakening as well, and she kind of brought, I think, a generation of people with her.

Anitra: 27:27

And one of her guests was Deepak Chopra. And he was on the show. It resonated with me. I got the book, The Seven Spiritual Laws of Success, and then kinda started walking down that path, and became a student of Buddhism, and right thinking, right speaking, right, you know, just kind of adopting.

Smoke: 27:49

Just to keep the bugs away from us.

Anitra: 27:50

Yeah. Well, it's very buggy out here. I got a nice bite on my ankle now. Yeah. So it became my thing that brought me a lot of peace, and it was and it remains that to this day.

Smoke: 28:02

Alright. So Deepak, you you you got into Deepak that he was helpful to you.

Anitra: 28:06

Deepak Chopra and Eckhart tolle.

Smoke: 28:09

Yeah. And then and then you you eventually took one of his classes and courses and to become a trained

Anitra: 28:15

Yeah. No. I went to their whole yeah. Went through three of their certifications. So for Ayurveda.

Smoke: 28:21

And you've been doing meditation since we met.

Anitra: 28:25

I've been doing I learned how to meditate on my from my it was a gift given to me by my next door neighbor. His name is Harley. And, actually, I reached out to him recently to thank him. But, yeah, for my thirtieth birthday, my next door neighbor who had been trying to get me to pay a thousand dollars to him to learn transcendental meditation for about a year and a half finally decided that he really needed to gift it to me. I used to say, I'm trying to make payroll.

Anitra: 28:53

I can't pay for meditation coaching. And sure enough, best gift I think I ever received.

Smoke: 28:59

And I think a funny moment, which I I think people will find it funny, but I started reading all kinds of spiritual material, and I found this book. And I was like, this is great. And I read this book, and I was like, this is awesome. And it was called A New Earth. And I brought it downstairs, and I said, hey.

Smoke: 29:14

You should read this. This is cool. And you're, like, looking at me, like, what what do

Anitra: 29:18

you That's not what happened.

Smoke: 29:19

You're, like, put on my bookshelf for twenty years, and I've tried to get you to read all these.

Anitra: 29:24

No. You came up you you read the power of now.

Smoke: 29:26

And I

Anitra: 29:27

said, no. I said, read the other one. Power Now is his first book. And I went to my library and brought you A New Earth. And I'm like, I tried to get you to read this twenty years ago.

Anitra: 29:36

And then that happened again and again with like, you would come upon something and be like, hey. Have you heard of this? And I'd be like, hang on. And I go run and get the book, and I bring it back. That was a kind of a fun stretch in the early process that you went through.

Smoke: 29:52

Yeah. When I was just getting And going

Anitra: 29:53

then and learning stuff. Then, like, you were you became this is is the right word, voracious reader? Like, you just started and and we started listening to audiobooks. But you you on it you had a craving and then a a a want of all of the knowledge, which I think it it mirrors how you've done your businesses, you know, become the expert and learn everything. And so and then I started getting a little stressed out about it because I was like, wait.

Anitra: 30:17

I I don't I don't need to know all this. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good with that.

Smoke: 30:21

The energy shifted a bit, and I I was in a in a pretty, I guess yeah. Don't know. Voracious is probably reasonable. I you know, I would say that it

Anitra: 30:31

was Voracious.

Smoke: 30:31

Yeah. Would say it was like a just a a deep learning to understand, and I had not been exposed to a lot of spiritual and religious stuff growing up, and never had a huge interest in it. And then all of a sudden, I had all the interest in it, so I wanted to absorb everything that was integris, everything that was

Anitra: 30:49

And it was because you you had experienced God. Yeah. I mean, it like, that'll do it. Right?

Smoke: 30:55

That'll do it. You know?

Anitra: 30:56

But, you know, a lot of Catholics find their Christians, Catholics find their way to Buddhism. It's there's some some reasoning around that, but I don't know what it is.

Smoke: 31:03

Yeah. And and what's been fun for me is just, you know, been being able to go deep into many, many traditions. And, you know, I I've I've gained tremendous benefit and understanding through the Christian mystics and Meister Eckhart and

Anitra: 31:19

Enjoying that.

Smoke: 31:19

Jim Finley and all of his work, and Thomas Merton, and The Cloud of Unknowing, and John of the Cross, and

Anitra: 31:25

Teresa Valhalla.

Smoke: 31:27

And, like, that whole tradition has been has really really resonated with me a lot. But also, you know, the Buddha and the Buddhist teachings, the

Anitra: 31:35

Saint Francis.

Smoke: 31:36

Oh, yeah. Francis of Assisi, for sure. And but, you know, the Advaita, you know, Hindu traditions, some of the Kabbalah stuff I've dug into. Yeah. But all these traditions, you know, these are technologies.

Smoke: 31:48

Meditation, breath work, contemplation, plexadivina. These are all technologies that have been developed for thousands of years by humans and passed down in traditions in these various lineages. And today, we have access to all of them if you want them. And I wanted them, so I was going deep on a lot of them.

Anitra: 32:06

Mhmm.

Smoke: 32:07

You know? There there's people there are certainly people that are experts in any of those traditions, and every single one of those traditions that know much more about that tradition than I do. But there's not that many people that have dug as deeply across them all where, you know, I actually really wanted to learn from all of them, and I pulled the pieces of the puzzle that it makes sense for me.

Anitra: 32:30

Yeah. No. That that sounds true. That's that that I think you nailed that.

Smoke: 32:33

We're on the spiritual journey together.

Anitra: 32:35

Yes.

Smoke: 32:35

We're on life together. Yes. We're living here in Sedona. Amen. Four grown kids.

Smoke: 32:40

We've got three grandbabies now. Having lots of fun with that. Having lots of fun with love and life. I still work. You're you are reactivated with your music and your creativity.

Smoke: 32:52

You've you've you've had spurts and start spits and starts and, you know, had it help raise a bunch of kids and do a bunch of stuff, and we had a lot of ups and downs and things going on. But you've had the blessing of being able to do what you love when you wanted to do it. And I know you've been working hard for the last couple years on putting together this album that is now forthcoming. Victory. Victory.

Smoke: 33:15

Which is called Heartache Sky.

Anitra: 33:17

Heartache Sky.

Smoke: 33:18

So what is a heartache Sky?

Anitra: 33:21

Well, I think that's a personal thing for the listener. I know that when I was strumming and it was kinda coming through, I was on my back porch looking up at the sky, and it just came through. It was a heartache sky. And you think about so many people are missing someone or longing for someone, and they're both looking up at the same sky. You know what I mean?

Anitra: 33:44

Mhmm.

Anitra: 33:44

Like, when like, even when you would travel and we'd be on in different places, I'd be like, can you see the moon? And that kind of thing. Yeah. So

Smoke: 33:53

yeah. On the cover, which we'll we'll show here, there's it looks like the sun on the horizon, but I took the picture.

Anitra: 34:02

You know it's the moon.

Smoke: 34:03

I know it's the moon. It looks like the sun.

Anitra: 34:04

It does.

Smoke: 34:05

So, you know, the you know, my question was rising or setting, but essentially, it was the moon the full moon

Anitra: 34:11

Full moon rising.

Smoke: 34:12

Yeah.

Anitra: 34:13

Okay. So

Smoke: 34:13

looks like the sun, though.

Anitra: 34:14

Okay. In the future. Right. But you realize that's a lyric from our song, Love's Magic Night. Mhmm.

Anitra: 34:21

Full moon rising, a feeling in the air. Yeah. So it was a full moon rising, and it's a magical moment. And it's actually being released on Friday. The single is being released this Friday in with the harvest moon.

Anitra: 34:37

There'll be a full moon this Friday. And I don't know if that'll be that's cause we're shooting we're filming this now.

Smoke: 34:42

Yeah. You know? We're we're gonna play the song here on this podcast Uh-huh. So I can play it we can play it at the end.

Anitra: 34:48

Okay. Cool.

Smoke: 34:49

So people can listen to it. Okay. It'll just you know?

Anitra: 34:52

Yeah. No. But it'll be out on Friday, and and the harvest moon is kind of the, you know, it's the the the bringing of the fruit the fruits of the labor, you know, so it's that alignment. And I just One of songs do about this dog. Can they hear can

Smoke: 35:05

like, she can hear it.

Anitra: 35:06

Okay. Sorry.

Smoke: 35:07

Yeah. One of the songs on the album is Downton Dignity.

Anitra: 35:11

Yes. Well, that was the name of your poem. The dignity that I I I put out that song a couple years ago, that's gonna be on the album. Yeah. I did a rework on a few things on it.

Anitra: 35:21

Yeah.

Smoke: 35:22

So but that was a poem I wrote about the homeless project we have with Digging Moves Yeah. That you've been involved with too. Yeah. And then you turned that poem into a song. Yeah.

Smoke: 35:32

What was that process like? Like, taking some like, my poem and the turning making it yours, making it into a song.

Anitra: 35:39

Yeah. It's an interesting thing, partially because I want to be respectful to the original piece. I think I read your poem and said that's a song. And and and it made it very easy to write the song as as far as, you know, it goes in in my process of writing. A lot of they come different ways sometimes, but I really enjoyed.

Smoke: 36:02

And one of the things I was just gonna ask you to comment on or mention is you wrote a song for our dear friend, Leslie and Dan's wedding, called Forever More. It's like the perfect wedding song.

Anitra: 36:16

Yeah.

Smoke: 36:16

And and you, you know, dedicated it to them and their their wedding, but it became one of your songs.

Anitra: 36:22

Yeah. Yeah.

Smoke: 36:23

How does that song go? What does it mean to you? Can you can you can you sing us a verse or two?

Anitra: 36:28

Okay. So let well, the story is Leslie asked me if I would sing at the wedding.

Smoke: 36:33

Yes.

Anitra: 36:33

And I said, what would you like me

Anitra: 36:34

to sing?

Anitra: 36:35

And she said, well, would you write a song for it? And I was like, yeah.

Anitra: 36:40

I'll I'll give it a shot,

Anitra: 36:42

you know. I always think it's it's great for me to have a prompt. It's really helpful, you know, because then it's not about me, you know, and I can kinda, you know, tell a story about something. And then but I got stuck, I I actually went back to a time I had to kinda think about what it felt like, You know? Because they were they were at that new moment and just, like, madly in love.

Smoke: 37:05

Like I

Anitra: 37:06

still am. Yeah. Exactly. Like how I am. Exactly.

Anitra: 37:08

You No. No. But you know how that is.

Smoke: 37:09

I stayed there.

Anitra: 37:10

Yeah. Welcome back. And, yeah. So, I was walking on the beach in Ventura and and got and the and the chorus came to me, but it was after meditating and and kind of asking spirit to to bring it to me. And it's

Smoke: 37:39

Beautiful song. And it's a perfect song to go with.

Anitra: 37:42

It's it's it's now actually, I think it's gonna be at its third wedding. I think it's happening. Yeah. So we did I did it at Leslie's. And then when our youngest, Tally Walling, got married.

Smoke: 37:52

Here at Desert Mountain.

Anitra: 37:53

Uh-huh. Yes.

Smoke: 37:55

Oh, gosh.

Anitra: 37:56

It's only it's about a year and a half now. I sang it there. Okay.

Smoke: 38:01

So I'm gonna go to what we're calling the lightning round.

Anitra: 38:04

Okay.

Smoke: 38:04

And so these are just a prompt and pithy short answer. Could be one word.

Anitra: 38:11

Could be Smart Alec.

Smoke: 38:13

Alright. Free Will. Did you choose your life or did it choose you?

Anitra: 38:16

I chose my life.

Smoke: 38:19

Evil. You lead with love. Does evil exist or only wounds?

Anitra: 38:23

Evil exists. And if we are in a place of love, we have protection.

Smoke: 38:29

Synchronicity. You wrote there were way too many to list. Tell one you've never have.

Anitra: 38:36

Of a synchronicity in my life? Like, where something kinda

Smoke: 38:40

Synchronicity. Yeah.

Anitra: 38:41

Well, I'm not prepared for that. Okay.

Smoke: 38:44

We can come back

Anitra: 38:44

to Something will come. Think of it. Something well, it'll come when I'm not trying to think

Smoke: 38:47

of it. Intuition. Your higher self is your first call. Yeah. How does it speak?

Anitra: 38:52

There's a a knowing. I don't know how else to explain it. I have a knowing, and when I think about things and I get should like, when every hair on my body stands up or I get the chills, I feel like that is my those are my guides. Those are my my spirits that

Smoke: 39:06

are coming.

Anitra: 39:06

I've I've I did not know then that term until we were listening to Sarah. Sarah, who's also called the

Smoke: 39:15

Alchemist.

Anitra: 39:15

Alchemist. Yeah. No.

Smoke: 39:16

She's awesome. She's a good friend. Yeah. Yeah. She's I've done her retreat, and she's been on the podcast.

Smoke: 39:21

And she's got a book coming out. So we'll hopefully, we'll see

Anitra: 39:25

Hopefully, bring her back.

Smoke: 39:26

Her back around.

Anitra: 39:27

Yeah. No. So

Smoke: 39:27

She's also got a amazing two seasons on Gaia already. So

Anitra: 39:32

Gaia has also been a great one. There's a knowing, so it's clear it's it is called claircognizant. Think so. Where I've I have always said it, and I and then I I kinda quieted it down because it sounds obnoxious, but I I know things sometimes. And

Smoke: 39:48

I think we often know things and we dismiss them because we don't know how we know them. That.

Anitra: 39:53

Yeah. No. I feel it in my I

Smoke: 39:55

know you do. Yeah. But I think more people then realize get a knowing, but then they dismiss it because they don't know how they know it.

Anitra: 40:04

Or they had an idea or they think it well, you know, thoughts are funny though too because you don't know where it's coming from. Right? It's on it's on a field that you're in and

Smoke: 40:12

You can test it. That's another conversation. Death. What do you believe happens next? Are you afraid?

Smoke: 40:18

And obviously, she did not see these questions before. So this is

Anitra: 40:22

This is a real this is a real I was afraid of death for a long time, and I don't believe that it is the end. So, don't carry that fear anymore. I just think that where we are spirits having a physical experience and and now because of the things I've seen and and learned and experienced in the last few years, I believe I believe everything now. Like, I believe differently.

Smoke: 40:49

Sitto. True happiness. A hot tub, a bird feeder, and three hummingbirds. Is that it?

Anitra: 40:57

Well, and you. And What do we wait. Wait. I don't understand. Am I supposed to define what true happiness is?

Smoke: 41:03

Is that all you need for true happiness?

Anitra: 41:05

I don't know if I what I need. I I have I feel a tremendous amount of love and joy, and I feel like I live in a a bubble with it. And I also I know that life is hard and and things happen, and we've been, gosh, we've been through it a few times, you know, and and but I feel that being feeling that alignment and feeling peace in my heart is that's happiness.

Smoke: 41:33

So a gift or practice for listeners. And I've got written here, and you can change it if you want. But So

Anitra: 41:40

those are my old notes from a year and a half ago that you're pulling from?

Smoke: 41:43

No. It's also your new note. You know?

Anitra: 41:45

Because I'm a different person.

Smoke: 41:46

Get quiet with yourself and trust your inner voice when you decide, then do the work to heal.

Anitra: 41:50

Yeah.

Smoke: 41:51

And then what is your practice? And I have correct this if this is not what you believe or wanna do right now. Meditation, time and nature, journaling, music, relationships, the nonnegotiables, quiet moments, meditation, and sunshine.

Anitra: 42:07

Yeah. That's it. You got it all. And now we add Bodhi.

Smoke: 42:11

Well, you the ad is sing one song alone this week. Singing is breath work with a tune on it. Yep. A long exhale and open chest and no app required. So that's that's the that's the gift I got that you kinda gave and said, you know, this is what you can do.

Anitra: 42:27

One of the things that I think is a good reminder is that your breath is always with you.

Smoke: 42:31

Mhmm.

Anitra: 42:32

And it helped me as someone who was always type a go, go, go stress out until I kinda cracked and healed. When you're at a stop sign, remember to breathe. And doing the breath calms everything down and brings you into the present moment, brings me into the present moment. So I'll speak from the eye. When you don't have the ability to meditate, breath is a meditation.

Anitra: 42:58

Yeah. And and and and the other thing about happiness is bringing a gift to each each room you walk into.

Smoke: 43:06

Yeah.

Anitra: 43:06

Yeah. That's a big one for me.

Smoke: 43:08

Love exists everywhere, permeating everything, but it gets blocked. And so it's in our separation from divinity where we block the flow of love through our bodies, through our essence, and anyone who unblocks it for themselves helps others unblock it.

Anitra: 43:28

Yeah. Right.

Smoke: 43:30

Right?

Anitra: 43:30

Yep. Well, they say, you know, you can go and be in a and hide away and meditate, and you'll be helping the universe raise its consciousness. And I believe that. So as be as happy as you can be. Be as blissful as you can be.

Anitra: 43:45

That doesn't mean that hard things don't happen and doesn't mean that sadness doesn't come. I remember that my life changed when I realized that it was a choice I was making every day of how I was responding to things.

Smoke: 43:59

Yeah. One of the lenses that I have built upon is the Jahari Window, which I, you know, talking more and more about, but you know, I'm I'm applying it in a but I've built on what that work is.

Anitra: 44:11

Okay.

Smoke: 44:11

So the Jahari window is, you know, the four quadrants. Mhmm. Known to self, known to others. Known to self, not known to others. Not known to self, known to others.

Smoke: 44:22

Known to self, not known

Anitra: 44:23

to others. Yeah. Hidden.

Smoke: 44:24

And it's a I find it to be a quite useful lens to think about consciousness. Because consciousness is all about bringing the unknown into the known for yourself and for others.

Anitra: 44:36

Right. No. I I I was just talking about this. Were just in New York, and I had a conversation with a girlfriend of mine. And I had asked her if if she was familiar with it, and she wasn't.

Anitra: 44:46

And so I I sent it to her. But it's such an interesting thing because I think well, I guess it'd be interesting to ask you this. You see me, and you see parts of me that I don't see.

Smoke: 44:59

Correct.

Anitra: 45:00

And the same for likewise, like reverse. And so

Smoke: 45:04

Yeah. So a spouse is a walking blind quadrant. Each of us sees what the other cannot.

Anitra: 45:09

Oh, you actually wrote this?

Smoke: 45:10

Today Ah. Today that runs both ways. So here's the open quadrant for on my pages, the one who stayed.

Anitra: 45:16

That's wait. That's me?

Smoke: 45:18

That's that's

Anitra: 45:19

That's how you think of me?

Smoke: 45:20

For me. An artist and a guide in her own right with her own account of our past.

Anitra: 45:24

Oh, like, I like, I'm a real person.

Smoke: 45:27

Person to me.

Anitra: 45:27

I I'm not just in your movie.

Smoke: 45:29

So the so the blind okay. Alright. So this is known to known to me concealed. So before, the price of her patients, the judge she carries, the ache under the new song. Oh.

Smoke: 45:42

And after, hers to open as far as she chooses. This is, like, after

Anitra: 45:47

the Okay. So you're using this as a tool in this conversation

Smoke: 45:50

to see I'm just kinda, like, using the lens at different ways. Right?

Anitra: 45:53

Okay.

Smoke: 45:54

The blind. So this is seen by others not seen by me before. The man she saw in him long before he could, The fearless girl everyone saw and the mask she says it was. After, you naming your mirror, now the mirror turns. So I I look at consciousness as a spiral of understanding.

Smoke: 46:14

And the same thing with healing. So healing is like, we go back to the same material, but we see it from a different angle, different level of the spiral.

Anitra: 46:25

Right. And the same thing keeps happening over and over again on your timeline until you figure it out and you change timelines.

Smoke: 46:31

Right.

Anitra: 46:32

Or that's part of the same thing. Right? Mhmm. Okay. Yeah.

Smoke: 46:36

Hidden from all before where a melody comes from, neither of us can say.

Anitra: 46:43

Yeah. Well, we watched we listened to that. Telepathy tapes had a really cool story on season two about the manifest of the unmanifest of an idea or it was as if as if song the idea of this if the the idea of this song is floating in the ether, and it's gonna it's gonna land on a couple of people, and, you know, it's it's trying to be born. It's trying to come and be be a living entity. You know.

Anitra: 47:11

And that's a

Smoke: 47:12

song is its own

Anitra: 47:13

It's its own.

Smoke: 47:14

Thing Yeah. That it's gonna come through you or someone else if you don't do it.

Anitra: 47:18

Right. Like, there's there's been songs where I wake up in the middle of the night, and I've got the whole song. And I I I I've waiting for that. Yeah. Back in the day, it was I would call myself and leave myself a voice message of the song.

Anitra: 47:33

I would just sing it because after saying rolling over and being like, wow. That's cool. I'll remember that, and then it's gone. You know? But it's like something came through.

Anitra: 47:42

And those moments are gold, you know, those little things.

Smoke: 47:45

So I would say after still a mystery, we admit it, and she sings from it anyway. So, like, where the songs come from, where the inspiration comes from, well, it's mystery, but it's divinity, and it's about jumping on it. So when you have an idea and you whether it's some new venture, something you're gonna help someone with, a new song, a story, a poem, whatever, jump on it. Yeah. It it it's yours for the taking.

Smoke: 48:15

Yeah. But it will emerge as someone else's if you don't do it.

Anitra: 48:19

That's

Smoke: 48:19

true. It's it's going to come out. Divinity is going to bring it forth.

Anitra: 48:24

So I think That's cool. I like that.

Smoke: 48:27

Five things to walk away with.

Anitra: 48:29

Gosh.

Smoke: 48:30

Unconditional love does not fix, threaten, or keep score. It stays if someone stayed for you, tell them this week.

Anitra: 48:36

So are these are where did these come from? And are they things or takeaway for our your listeners?

Smoke: 48:44

These are kind of things

Anitra: 48:45

I'm just trying to understand.

Smoke: 48:46

That I think summarize some of our conversation Yeah. And can be things to contemplate on for our listeners or you to comp to comment on if you want to.

Anitra: 48:57

Unconditional love, I think, is hard for people to understand unless they have unless they feel it.

Smoke: 49:02

Yeah. And so and it's We

Anitra: 49:05

we talk about on the Hawkins scale. And

Smoke: 49:06

Right. And so, you know, once you get up above 500 on the Hawkins scale, you're in the love sector, which is nonlinear. And at five forty and above, you're in unconditional love. So what does that mean? Unconditional love is you have, you see the divinity in everyone and everything.

Anitra: 49:24

And in yourself.

Smoke: 49:25

Yeah. Absolutely. You are one you are part of that. And so that's that's really what any of us in this realm, in this time, can get to. Now is everybody gonna become Buddha enlightened or Jesus Christ consciousness or, you know, that level?

Smoke: 49:44

No. Not necessarily. And you don't need to. But everyone, if they want to and they work at it, they can get to unconditional love. It's reachable.

Smoke: 49:54

And it feels far, far, far distant if you have experienced trauma and things along the way. But those traumas, those difficulties are the portals to access unconditional love. Yeah. They're the portals to access unconditional love. And I I want everyone to understand that because that's real.

Smoke: 50:18

Current currency means flow. Grip it in and it stalls. Loosen the hand before you raise the target.

Anitra: 50:25

Okay. So you know where that comes from. Right? Mhmm. One of my core wounds has been lack.

Anitra: 50:30

Right? Financial And that comes from growing up, you know, poor in the Bronx and, you know, being on and off food stamps, my parents being very, very young, just kind of like in survival mode. And so that was so ingrained in me. And and then we've had our aspects of it even know, it's like a big wins, big losses, you know, in the way of things and and the amount of time and energy and and stress that went on to about worrying about, you know, bills or how to pay for something at different times in my life. The moment things shifted for me was when there I I learned that the word currency came from the Latin career.

Anitra: 51:17

It it means to flow. And so if what I came to that was the minute I stopped worrying about it and thinking about it and realizing that I actually had all the money in the world and it just flows through me, that my relationship with it changed and therefore its relationship with me changed. And so it's it was profound because I think about it. I think about bills. I think about things, you know, what we you know, what we're doing, why we're doing it, and how we're doing it.

Anitra: 51:49

Right?

Smoke: 51:49

Anybody that grew up in any feeling of lack, which I did.

Anitra: 51:54

And now and now everybody everything's so expensive, and everything is so hard. A lot people are struggling.

Smoke: 51:59

And there's so much abundance today that it's never been more abundant. So yes and. It's both. And a lot of what we learn in our conscious work is that a lot of these things are paradox. What is paradox?

Smoke: 52:14

It's holding two things in mind that maybe seem like the opposite, but they both can be true. So the ability to hold paradox is a core muscle strength of raising one's consciousness. So think both things can be true at once.

Anitra: 52:35

Many things can be true.

Smoke: 52:37

Many things can be true. It's not just two things. So it's really interesting. The talent you shell distill yours. So if you you were a singer that stopped singing, you're a sailor that didn't sail, you're whatever.

Smoke: 52:49

Shut up, cast. Leading, give it ten minutes for no one but yourself. So you can always bring that back. Whatever talent you have is available to you and can be resurfaced.

Anitra: 53:04

Every time every time we meet someone, music seems to connect us tremendously. And so many people, oh, yeah. I played when I was a kid. Or, yeah. Now I have a guitar.

Anitra: 53:13

It's in the closet, whatever. I'm like, take it out of the closet. Just touch it. You know? Touch it for five minutes.

Smoke: 53:19

Yeah.

Anitra: 53:19

And there's a little song nugget in it, and I haven't figured out the song, but I I my music's always been on the back burner. Like, I life was this thing, and I would I always had my music, but it was back here. I knew at a young age, younger age, when I was in my band, that it was not a lifestyle that I wanted to pursue. You you get in a van with a couple of guys and, you know, great, great people. I don't wanna be in van with anybody, but had a great experience and then also realized, like, the people that are doing it, like, hands down, I give them all the credit in the world.

Anitra: 53:57

Go out and support live music. Go see go see live music because it's it's a hard life. And but but, you know, it doesn't mean that and you know who else I'm thinking about? Dave Fellinger. Fellinger.

Anitra: 54:09

Yeah.

Smoke: 54:09

No. He's

Anitra: 54:10

He's actually he's on stage in Denver. He's perfect. He got he got back it. Yeah. Yeah.

Smoke: 54:14

Got he he

Anitra: 54:14

had a good time. Did it too. So I think I think everybody should be playing if they wanna play.

Smoke: 54:19

That we all have talents that get suppressed because of life and busyness and whatnot. This should be a direct

Anitra: 54:27

Are you shoulding? Don't say should.

Smoke: 54:28

This is a direct transmission.

Anitra: 54:31

It's

Smoke: 54:31

not should. It is a direct transmission that whatever your talent is, isn't over, you can bring it back out. And, you know, Anitra, you're

Anitra: 54:39

That's why we're here.

Smoke: 54:40

You're, you know, older than you were when you first started seeing, but the work you're doing is awesome

Anitra: 54:50

Thank you.

Smoke: 54:51

And beautiful

Anitra: 54:51

Thank you.

Smoke: 54:52

And will resonate with many people. So

Anitra: 54:54

Yeah. You know, there's a couple of things I wanna share there. When I was in my in in a band in in Denver, I was I was a certain age, I was like, well, you know, like, Liz Etheridge, you know, she was like 30 when she kinda hit her stride. And then Bonnie Rae. And then I got a little older, and then I was like, you know, Bonnie Rae was like 50, you know, when she when she made it big, you know.

Anitra: 55:16

So I don't have crazy aspirations.

Smoke: 55:19

I like Sam Walton. I think he was, like, 50 when he started.

Anitra: 55:22

When he started a long time. Is that right?

Smoke: 55:24

I could be off by a decade, but I think he was, you know

Anitra: 55:27

So so there's a theme that I that I it resonates for me, and it's never too late. And if you hear this and it and it lands for you, I hope I hope it does because it's never too late. I spent the last two years focused on writing this album because I didn't want the pressure of the whole thing. And then all of a sudden, I had all these new songs, and I was like, wait a second. This is an album.

Anitra: 55:48

Right? And So I'm excited about it. And you're so The so

Smoke: 55:52

fall is all about releasing the album.

Anitra: 55:56

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But Harvest Moon.

Smoke: 55:58

What are you working on now?

Anitra: 56:00

My new album.

Smoke: 56:02

So it's not about

Anitra: 56:03

said it. Yeah. It's not about done. Right.

Smoke: 56:05

Right. Right. We're gonna get it out there. There's gonna be some shows.

Anitra: 56:07

Oh, it's so and but it's torture. So I I I joked about this. I had two things. My one of my forum sisters said to me, what does success look like? Because there's this thing about, I struggle putting things out on social media.

Anitra: 56:21

I'm working very hard. I'm I'm I'm I'm getting better at it.

Smoke: 56:24

You used

Anitra: 56:24

to struggle. I used to struggle. I am not saying it in presence anymore. So but it what is it what does success look like? And I and truly came to this, and it felt great.

Anitra: 56:36

Success is I wrote a bunch of songs, and I recorded them, and I have an album.

Smoke: 56:44

And you feel great about

Anitra: 56:44

it.

Anitra: 56:45

And I feel great about the music. Yeah. And I love it. And I love my producer, and he's a co writer because he he helped me so much. We made some great stuff.

Anitra: 56:55

I think it's Vito. De Vito. David Vito Grigoli. Vito Grigoli. He's an incredible talent, and he he's made me so much better.

Anitra: 57:03

And and I love him, and I wish him good health. And and the other thing is

Smoke: 57:08

Alright. So heartache is number four. Heartache is weather, not climate. It's the way I look at it.

Anitra: 57:13

I clarify that.

Smoke: 57:15

So we I asked you what Heartache Sky was, and you said, I'm saying heartache is weather, not climate. What does that mean?

Anitra: 57:21

Oh, it's a temporary?

Smoke: 57:23

Name it, feel it, let it pass through.

Anitra: 57:25

Oh, okay.

Smoke: 57:26

So Heartache Sky is like it's like being present with whatever is coming up and letting it flow.

Anitra: 57:33

Alright. Cool.

Smoke: 57:35

So before the next decision, sit in silence until the noise drops, then the trust what is left. So we overthink most things as humans. We, because I'm help I'm helping bring

Anitra: 57:46

everyone You're to the you're talking to the the universe of people.

Smoke: 57:49

Bringing everyone in.

Anitra: 57:50

And do you overthink?

Smoke: 57:52

I have in the past.

Anitra: 57:53

I wouldn't say if I was telling somebody about you, I wouldn't that wouldn't be one of the things that I would say like

Smoke: 57:59

I'm pretty good at I'm pretty good at

Anitra: 58:00

I think I think being quiet with a decision is helpful. I think it allows allows the spirit, you know, to have divinity to be heard. And I also don't think that there's any wrong decisions.

Smoke: 58:14

So Anitra, what did we not talk about that you want talk about before we wrap?

Anitra: 58:19

You gave me like an outline, and and I was like, woah. Okay. You know? I don't know. I'm I'm so thankful.

Anitra: 58:27

I am thankful for all that you have done for me, with me, for our family, but all the work that you've done for yourself. And I'm it was really scary for a little while there because everything kind of cracked open and the grounds were When I described it, I would say that the sand beneath my feet, everything felt unsteady and unsure. And I'm so grateful for your commitment to being with an in higher power and the good that you do and that and you inspire me. And you inspire me by putting out this podcast because because you're not afraid to give your gifts to the world. So

Smoke: 59:19

Yeah, I mean, I had to get out of my own way to do it, and now it's getting easier and easier.

Anitra: 59:24

I waited a year and a half.

Smoke: 59:25

Yeah, you wanted me to get better at doing this.

Anitra: 59:27

I went to school for television and film, and it was very uncomfortable watching you be but you were willing just to do it and wing it.

Smoke: 59:35

Right.

Anitra: 59:35

Which is, I think, a testament to that same thing you're telling others is just do it. You know? It's big Nike ad. Just do it. Love you, and I'm I'm I have gratitude for all

Anitra: 59:45

of it.

Smoke: 59:46

We only scratched the surface. We're gonna play a few of the songs. You know, I'll mix them in here, but the album's coming out. We're gonna promote it. I I see your legacy is my legacy of one of love and kindness.

Smoke: 59:56

Tell everyone where they can find you. It's gonna be in the show notes.

Anitra: 59:59

But Okay.

Smoke: 01:00:00

What are your different handles?

Anitra: 01:00:02

I'm on I'm on everything. I'm on Instagram and Facebook and YouTube. All of your

Smoke: 01:00:06

day to day life is Anitra Wallin. Right.

Anitra: 01:00:10

Singer songwriter.

Smoke: 01:00:12

Thing has always been Car.

Anitra: 01:00:15

So car is my maiden name. My dad didn't have any boys, so it's the least I could do.

Smoke: 01:00:20

So the the website is needyourcar.com.

Anitra: 01:00:22

Uh-huh. I just updated a little bit of You're

Smoke: 01:00:24

on Spotify, Apple Music, YouTube. Uh-huh. Now starting to grow.

Anitra: 01:00:28

Instagram?

Smoke: 01:00:28

Instagram and Facebook. So all those things are sites. It'll be all the music things. And

Anitra: 01:00:34

But, hey. Please connect and reach out, and I'd be happy to respond. So thank you.

Smoke: 01:00:43

Yeah. So thanks for joining us and sending you all love and light, and thank you, Anitra, for agreeing to be on the Smoke Trail.

Anitra: 01:00:53

Thank you, Smoke. I love you. You're amazing.

Anitra: 01:04:35

Sorry, baby, for the hurt analyzed. Sending you my love tonight under