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Each episode of GAIN Momentum focuses on timeless lessons to help grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, and technology. Whether you’re a veteran industry leader looking for some inspiration to guide the next phase of growth or an aspiring executive looking to fast-track the learning process, this podcast is here with key lessons centered around four questions we ask each guest.
GAIN Momentum episode #13 - The Right Senior Teams and Customer Success | with Karen O'Neill
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[00:00:00] Jason Emanis: Welcome to the Gain Momentum podcast, focusing on timeless lessons from global industry leaders about how to grow and scale a business in hospitality, travel, food service, and technology. I am Jason Emanis. I'm here with my co host Adam Mogelonsky. Adam, how are you?
[00:00:26] Adam Mogelonsky: I'm great.
[00:00:27] Jason Emanis: That's good, that's good. Our guest today is Karen O'Neill, Gain Advisor, former senior executive at places like UniFocus, Knowcross, StayNTouch, MICROS.
[00:00:43] Karen O'Neill: I'm exhausted thinking about it.
[00:00:46] Jason Emanis: I couldn't list, I couldn't list them all, but how are you, Karen?
[00:00:48] Karen O'Neill: I'm doing great, thanks. Just fresh back from Las Vegas.
[00:00:52] So, yeah, attending a conference out there, so happy to be here. Thank you.
[00:00:56] Jason Emanis: Well, thank you for joining us. Adam, why don't you take it away?
[00:00:59] Adam Mogelonsky: So Karen, for this podcast, focusing on scaling a business and momentum, we're trying to do timeless lessons that apply to practically everyone in every business, whether you are a seasoned veteran, or a young 20 something who's starting out who's looking for that little nuggets of wisdom. So we frame this around four questions.
[00:01:23] That are focused on travel, technology, and hospitality, but really they apply to all industries. So, starting off with that first question, it is, when it comes to scaling a business, what is the single piece of advice you would give entrepreneurs from your perspective as a professional in hospitality?
[00:01:45] Karen O'Neill: to me, I've always, for myself and also, companies that I've been part of and that I've helped with from an advisory perspective. small companies, large companies, companies who have scaled very successfully and companies that have even, you know, perhaps struggled.
[00:02:01] I think it always comes back to, in my opinion, who you've surrounded yourself with. And that can be at a simplistic layer of who you are. Co founding a company with, or who you are making a plan with, um, but as that grows, I think it really extends to the advisory community, actually, and who you have selected as almost like your cabinet around you to help you with very specific tasks that are important critical when your considering the scale and the timeliness of that scale.
[00:02:34] So I think that to me, that would be most piece of crucial evidence or suggestion would be to really surround yourself with the most lucrative, strong team, both from a co founder, obviously your, community that's around you, as well as the advisory side of things.
[00:02:53] Jason Emanis: Yeah, and we don't learn from our successes as much as we do our failures. So, I mean, I'm curious if, you know, without naming names, can you give us an example of,
[00:03:04] Karen O'Neill: yeah, you know, I
[00:03:05] Jason Emanis: example of where it went south?
[00:03:06] Karen O'Neill: yeah, no, I think that there is a quintessential, look, there's a lot of startups where there have been. Co founders, there's been a couple or, you know, two to three co founders to start and by the end of the journey, there's not two to three still standing, and there's been evolution in that initial foundational base of the co founders.
[00:03:24] And, you know, look, Sometimes you, it's probably unavoidable, right?
[00:03:28] And, and I'm sure that there are situations where that's the case, but I also think you really have to get back to rudimentary understanding of who you're going into business with. In a, you know, current situation that I'm in, we're spending time breaking bread. We're spending time really getting to know each other and our ethics and our goals, the timetable of what we're wanting to do. And I think that that's Sometimes maybe that's missed, right?
[00:03:54] And it's not necessarily as focused on as just getting down to business and, you know, maybe getting that funding and getting to scale or just the resume credentials that perhaps a certain co founder is bringing to the table. And that's you know, when maybe the person who originally came out with the idea is thinking about, they're thinking, you know, they're kind of in one set of mind about.
[00:04:15] What they bring to the table and they recognize maybe that they don't have skills in a certain area. For me, obviously my background is very sales, account management, business development oriented and operations as well. But that's really the sandbox that I like to play in, um, or have historically played in.
[00:04:32] And I think that. You know, if someone were looking at their skill set and saying, okay, I'm very capable in R& D, or I really have this idea and the concept and I understand it inside and out, they would naturally be looking for somebody else who perhaps has my skill set or someone like me, right?
[00:04:49] So, point being that don't just go with their resume and their history and their, you know, point being really dig in to building that, making sure that you're aligned in terms of who you are as a, as a person and as a human. And make sure that that is there, before entering into it. And then I think that that same philosophy really carries through, right?
[00:05:09] Like, so, you know, I think The word advisor and board advisors or board members, you know, obviously that changes as well, right? There could be board members that are part of your business because they are investors and they're not someone maybe that you have hand selected, but those that you are able to hand select, make sure that you're making the right decision on those people.
[00:05:31] Adam Mogelonsky: You know, Jason's last point about
[00:05:33] Karen O'Neill: Mm
[00:05:34] Adam Mogelonsky: I guess the potential mistakes of choosing your advisory people and those people you surround you actually dovetails nicely into our second question, which is, what are some of the common pitfalls or failures you have witnessed that business owners should look to avoid when scaling their business?
[00:05:54] Karen O'Neill: My response to this is actually kind of different for me, based on what I just said about my background. But I think that one area that I've seen some, some real challenges around is On the product side, on the actual product ideation and the, and the building out of the product is not taking into consideration, the long term activation plans, the scalability as it relates to that.
[00:06:19] So, how are the team members or the consumers that are going to utilize that product. How are they going to use it? How are they going to be trained on it? How are they going to activate it? What if they have questions? How is it going to be supported? That whole kind of sphere of questions and of requirements. I think sometimes gets left out.
[00:06:38] And the result is you may have a tech, you may have technology that Isn't built from the ground up with online help functions or with technology kind of built in where you can answer, you can, you're kind of self service in the sense that you can answer your own query. You can be shown how to do something on your own, which obviously from an overhead perspective and an organization perspective could save you.
[00:07:01] A lot in the longterm, right? If the type of deployment is something that can be self deployed or can be, you know, very much configured in advance, as opposed to the more old school way of, you know, Going to property and, you know, having to set it up from the ground up. I think often that is forgotten and That is something that I think, you know, I've seen a lot of companies where it's it's an afterthought And so then the result from a technology perspective is that they're having to bolt something on and they're having to think about it after The fact of how can we okay?
[00:07:33] How can we streamline this? How can we do better? And while yes, it can still be successful After the fact. Obviously, there's lots of companies where that's the case. the same time, I think it really helps your value proposition and helps really streamline, obviously the scalability side of things if you have thought that through in advance.
[00:07:55] Jason Emanis: Yeah, product, product management is tough. It's, it's, I've been a part of companies where it was really lacking,
[00:08:02] Karen O'Neill: Mm hmm.
[00:08:03] Jason Emanis: and there's so much involved, and I think this is where you're getting at, it's like, I mean, are you listening? To the right customers. Are you only listening to one? Can 2,500 other customers use this or whatever.
[00:08:17] And then what does it take to bring that to market? It's not just the technology,
[00:08:21] it's the, it's the training. It's,
[00:08:23] it's the, it's the, how to use, distill down, what problem you're solving, you know, with these three new features. For example, who and who's it for? You know, why should anybody care? How do you train marketing?
[00:08:36] How do you train sales? How do you train account managers? Um, customer service people. It's, it's a lot.
[00:08:43] Karen O'Neill: and it never stops, right? I mean, so obviously there's nuggets in what I was just suggesting about the initial, you know, kind of the initial deployment as it relates to scale, right? So getting those clients up quickly, right? That's at the end of the day, you want to get them, you want to get clients and stall.
[00:08:58] You want to make sure that they're very happy and they are thrilled with the product that you've put out there and they're going to be, and you're going to be able to retain them as clients. And obviously you want as many of them as you can get, right? So, um, I think that that initial activation and training and portion is obviously crucial, but Jason, to your point, I mean, it never stops, right?
[00:09:20] I mean, so it's, you know, it is directly tied to the retention of your clientele that you have, and that is then directly tied to scale. So I think that, you know, it, it all is interrelated, and it's just something, it's a, again, a little nugget that isn't necessarily always thought of top of mind, um, when thinking about, you know, scaling your business and, and again, in today's climate and today's world that we're living in, in post and for hospitality specifically, the post pandemic, Hospitality platforms that are required are really, you know, they need to keep that in mind because it's far too competitive also of a landscape, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point here talking through, but you know, it's far too competitive of a landscape right now where there are, you know, there are a lot of, there's a lot of choices out there.
[00:10:07] So this is something that I feel can also differentiate you, if you have it kind of ironclad.
[00:10:14] Adam Mogelonsky: You talk about keeping customers happy, and on that note, it's much easier said than
[00:10:22] Karen O'Neill: Yes. Yes. Yes.
[00:10:24] Adam Mogelonsky: So, so I'm, I'm wondering though, can you think of any lo fi techniques or very simple things that you've seen work that keep customers happy?
[00:10:34] Karen O'Neill: Yeah, I mean, you know, my time, my 15 years at Microsystems was, a lot of that was pre SAS, right? So, at that point in time, we still had a lot of, um, systems on prem. There was a lot of technology that was from multiple vendors that they were having to manage, and they were having to, keep track of all of the advancements that were being made and their support issues.
[00:10:59] So, part of my responsibility was really that key kind of account management. It wasn't necessarily yet customer success, right? We called it account management back there in the back days, but that account management, I think, you know, what I found always to be successful was just communication over communication.
[00:11:19] And I know that sounds, you know, very rudimentary, obviously, but, you know, going back to having that phone call, or in our case now, so much popularity around video calls, and seeing people in person, obviously is the best case scenario, but really putting in that effort around that, building that relationship, it goes a little back to the very first question around who you're surrounding yourself with, but, you know, building that relationship with your customers and making sure that they know that you are their voice You are representing their voice within the organization.
[00:11:52] So whether that be you set up a cadence and you have ongoing communication, uh, you know, every bi weekly or monthly kind of call review, that kind of thing, and I think also on the vendor side, if you're able to really also help these business owners by being that voice within the company and stretching yourself to bring in the right people and exposing them to the right people in these organizations.
[00:12:17] I think a lot of the vendors, they are willing to do that. They are willing to hop in and they really want that retention of their clients as well. So I think in, you know, specifically in the hospitality community by really, um, you know, asking, asking for that level of service, I think that they'll receive.
[00:12:37] you.
[00:12:37] Adam Mogelonsky: So for our third question, we're going to move ahead here. We're thinking the future. What do you see, Karen, as the key opportunities and challenges for hospitality and technology companies in 2023 and beyond?
[00:12:54] Karen O'Neill: Well, this is a big one.
[00:12:56] Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah.
[00:12:57] Karen O'Neill: it's obviously ingrained in future, clearly, but, you know, I think going back to what we're just, where we're coming from, right? We're coming off of this, the main headline being for the last couple years around labor shortage and around how is the hospitality community going to rebound from this labor shortage?
[00:13:19] And I think that that is very critical to the trends that are now springboarding into 23, 24 and beyond in terms of leveraging that situation as best as we can, that means, In terms of the labor shortage, doing more with the labor that you have, so that could be operationally and from a technology perspective, having tools in your toolkit that support a workforce that is different than the workforce was pre pandemic.
[00:13:50] It could be different because you have less people, you physically have less human capital in your hotel or in your, in your company. It could be less because you have, the type of resources that you're attracting could be different because people have more choice now. They could be doing, taking not moonlighting.
[00:14:10] That would be again, an old term, but like having multiple different jobs, right. They could be having, you know, different shifts. They could be doing different work for you, um, and be also helping other companies out there because the workforce today has evolved so much.
[00:14:24] The type of profile of the employees could be altered.
[00:14:28] So I think it's really about kind of doing more with the company and the culture that you have. Building that out, making sure not only from an employee perspective, not only are you recruiting the right people to come in and join your company while obviously being very selective on who those people are, but also that you're able to retain them.
[00:14:47] And you're able to have a culture that is Positioning them to thrive.
[00:14:52] And so, to me, the biggest kind of technology change and, where I think the future is going in terms of technology for hospitality around it is tools to support that, and tools to make sure that, you know, whether it's to the booking process for reservations, whether it be to operational software that, companies utilize and leverage, whether that be using technology that they're comfortable with, whether that be mobile phone related or, iPad related, as opposed to more of a traditional kind of desktop situation.
[00:15:22] I think all of those things kind of are uniquely tied to this and tied to your employees and to your culture.
[00:15:28] Jason Emanis: Yeah, there seems to be a lot of, streamlining that can happen within, hospitality and hotels. Um, you know, maybe other industries have already addressed those areas, but, uh, I think there's a lot of opportunity there.
[00:15:42] Karen O'Neill: Yeah. I mean, if you think about like, I was in a meeting at one point with Hilton Hotels in a former life, a couple, you know, a year ago, and, we were a little bit more in the thick of it, right. Of the labor crisis. And, um, this was as part of my position at UniFocus and what I found to be very interesting was that during this meeting the whole focus of the meeting was around one of their top three pillars which was employee retention.
[00:16:12] And keeping their employees happy and what tools could, in this case, UniFocus provide to help them with doing so. You know, for them, they can't reach their goal of their scale that they're looking for and their technology goals and their community goals, if they don't have the right team members there.
[00:16:32] And I think that to me, that, you know, all of the, most of the players, right? If they're not talking about it, then, you know, I think they're, you know, something could be wrong. But, you know, most people out there are talking about this, right? So, I think that, um, to me is, kind of a critical example of, you know, some of the largest companies in the worldthat are focused on this.
[00:16:52] Adam Mogelonsky: Well, going back to that example about UniFocus,
[00:16:55] Karen O'Neill: Yes. Yes.
[00:16:56] Adam Mogelonsky: what I'm wondering is, uh, you know, everyone of course recognizes this need to retain talent for keeping employees and everyone's sort of, a lot of them have reframed their products in this way. So what I'm wondering is what features or what technologies are you saying are actually most effective right now at helping retain talent?
[00:17:19] Karen O'Neill: So it probably is a little specific, maybe more to, within, let's just talk about hospitality industry specifically, within the hospitality vertical, right? When you're thinking about a hotel employee, right? As opposed to a company employee, a vendor or a supplier or provider to the hospitality industry.
[00:17:39] So I think from a hotel perspective, the operation side of a hotel has seen the most advancements around this. So that can be, tied to kind of the, uh, the employee's journey from, the time that they're clocking into their position through the time that they're clocking out, right? And what's happening in between the tools that they're able to use, the training that they're able to take advantage of. The trends that have already hit hotels and, and they're, they're probably using them in other areas of their life and they're able to then apply them in their professional career as well.
[00:18:17] So I think, all of that kind of, again, sphere of technology that they're witnessing to, I think has been the most advancements. And there's a lot of great companies that are out there, both from a startup perspective and more well established companies that are really trying to throw their hat in the ring and make sure that they're adding new functionality.
[00:18:36] So things like gamification is, you know, obviously is something that is becoming you're seeing more and more popping up in very unique ways that you may not have thought about in the past. Some elements of loyalty are another area that I think are very interesting when you think about, you know, we're in the hospitality industry and many companies don't offer, other than a traditional hotel kind of company, don't offer that much of, in terms of loyalty and incentives related to loyalty and stays at their actual property.
[00:19:05] So I think that there's some interesting Plays there that can be considered and, and that could be really cool from a vendor or from a company perspective. You know, similarly, I think that for me as a, as a past employee, any sort of technology that I can leverage that I have some level of familiarity with because of my personal life.
[00:19:24] Great. You know? Right. So if we're something that's mobile enabled, So, terrific, right? So, expense management tools is a really big one.
[00:19:32] Expense reports are not my friend, right? I've hated them for 25 years and I still, I do not like them. So anything that can fast track some of that expense management.
[00:19:41] And I think that, you know, that's a really interesting play where companies have not only, you know, it's instantaneous, right? On your phone. And that's really also bridging the hotel community and companies together because there's more and more of that auto kind of process available. So that would be one example would be kind of around the expense portion of things. I think obviously, you know, look, Salesforce has, blown up as we all know, right? So, whether that be perhaps an example of, something that, you know, Many employees have utilized at a lot of companies, right? So they have a familiarity with that.
[00:20:16] When they join a new company and they see technology that they've used before, it's like, okay, great I can hit the ground running here. I don't have to be trained. There's not going to be a, a training, you know, ramp up time for me to get familiar with it. And I think that that's really important too.
[00:20:29] So having the technology for your employees that both they're familiar with, but also that is going to help serve the company, is critical as well.
[00:20:38] Adam Mogelonsky: Gonna move on here to the fourth question.
[00:20:40] Karen O'Neill: Please.
[00:20:41] Adam Mogelonsky: Back to a timeless lesson, Karen.
[00:20:43] What are the key things innovative leaders and entrepreneurs should prioritize and focus on to
[00:20:52] Karen O'Neill: So, from uh, prioritization and traction , I think that, again, the, the employees and who you're surrounding yourself with is, is very critical. The second thing that I would really talk about is, I, I just mentioned a little bit around the technology of that, but I think, and I think that that's obviously very important for that employee retention and for building out that team of that very select group that you've brought on.
[00:21:14] But the third thing I would say is around the commercial aspect. So commercializing your business. So there's a very competitive landscape, as I was talking about before in our industry right now, right? It's kind of the rose in the thorn. There is a lot of new vendors that have come to market.
[00:21:30] There's a lot of new categories, some of which have emerged post pandemic based on a new guest journey based on a new employee journey. But I think that obviously the risk of that, the flip side of it, is that it makes competitive, very competition, very fierce. And so I think that your commercial package needs to be.
[00:21:49] Ironclad. And so what I mean by that to really scale efficiently and effectively, you need to ensure that you have the right value proposition. So that to me is built out of your, um, your pricing model, whether that be a SAS style model or more of a capital expenditure model based on what you're offering to the, to the end user. I think that that's really critical.
[00:22:12] um, Now I feel in the industry there is a tremendous amount of packaging, right?
[00:22:17] And there's always been this age old question of is it best to go with one vendor or is it best to go kind of, with best of breed, right? And so I think that that is gonna continue, the lens is gonna be very strong in regard to that because, you know, people theoretically are doing more with less in terms of their employees and potentially their budget as well.
[00:22:40] And so the idea of having that platform where you have one vendor or one company that you're having to deal with, I think that there's a lot of value to that and I feel like that consolidation, we've seen it happen in all different areas and segments of the hospitality industry, that may also be coming and we've seen some of it in In our vendor community, that may come further.
[00:23:02] So the value proposition is, is very critical. And also I think, you know, this maybe will perk up Jason's ears, but as it relates to your, your outbound communication and your marketing of your value proposition, I think there's a real art to that. And to me again, not, that's not always.
[00:23:20] That sometimes could be an afterthought, right? It sometimes is, it's not that go to market strategy hasn't thoroughly been thought through, from inception. And I think that that really is very critical and a big part of the whole overall overarching value proposition. I'm sure Jason has a comment on that.
[00:23:41] Jason Emanis: No, no, no, no, no.
[00:23:46] Karen O'Neill: Yeah. Know thy
[00:23:46] Jason Emanis: Know thy customer. Talk to them. Ask them questions. Um, they'll tell you. And there's nuance to different products solving different problems. And... So, I would talk to customers, I would talk to account managers,
[00:24:03] love account managers because account managers, they'll tell you what sometimes the customers won't tell
[00:24:09] Karen O'Neill: Mm hmm.
[00:24:10] Jason Emanis: Sales people, talk to your sales people, anyone that's interfacing with your customers and then identify, you know, a super consumer, you know, someone who just loves your product or is just engulfed in the problem that you're solving and they may, be ant to help you get that traction you're looking for.
[00:24:38] Karen O'Neill: yeah, I think one of those points that I really resonates with me and I've seen a lot of success come from it is when, you know, know, know thy customer. Yes. But if you're able to really also take that, what you've learned, the lessons that you've learned, and again, whether that comes, as Jason said, rightly so, whether that comes from a combination of different team members, or whether that comes from your account management team and internally, whether that comes from statistics and black and white, that a lot of technology is able to provide today, case studies, and really all of the foundational, content that, that explains clearly and thoughtfully. Your proposition, I think is really important. And can be a game changer and a differentiator for, for you.
[00:25:23] Adam Mogelonsky: Well, those were all, Karen, fantastic answers. Can't thank you enough. You know, this whole, the whole idea of changing technology and hospitality, it's, it's a constant conversation and particularly with the labor issues that we're currently facing and potentially for a little bit longer,
[00:25:42] um,
[00:25:43] Karen O'Neill: yeah.
[00:25:43] Adam Mogelonsky: Yeah, technology becomes ever more central, but also how those technologies intersect with the employee experience, the EX of it all.
[00:25:54] And where the vendor side comes into how we can fit in, help them with that problem.
[00:25:59] So thank you so much for coming on to our podcast. And yeah, it's been, it's been great.
[00:26:08] Karen O'Neill: Pleasure. It's been great. Thank you very
[00:26:10] much. Thank you.
[00:26:11]