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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
Ep07_SelfCare_final
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[00:00:00]
Liz Herl: Welcome back.
Tim Caldwell: Hi, Liz.
Liz Herl: That's what I say every time. Welcome back. I know. I mean, it seems pretty, like,
Tim Caldwell: it's good enough. It's good enough, but you do right. They're welcome back. Yeah, they're very welcome.
Liz Herl: So, we're gonna hop right into it. What's our topic? We left off just here recently with like the miss of the ideas of new Year, new me.
So [00:01:00] let's give some more insight to that. So what is self care and wellness? Yeah. Okay. Love that. So I thought we'd start there. I want to the summary of the episode I'm going to cover is some stress management techniques as well as some mindfulness and meditation and the importance of sleep hygiene.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Super important. Super important. Yeah. Well, one of the that's a critical component in health for all facets. Yeah. Whether exercise or not.
Liz Herl: So I figure you could jump in, I think also understanding how, what habits we have in our lifestyles and how they affect us as well.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Self care, you know, by definition, what we're looking at is taking care of yourself because the stresses of the world can really catch up to you. If you've never seen the example of a, Oh, a teacher or professor walks to the front of the room and he holds up a ball and he goes can somebody explain to me the difference between stresses and strain and [00:02:00] being under a load?
And they try and he says, well, I'm going to demonstrate something. So he takes out a ball. He asked this young lady to hold the small ball at arm's length. And it weighs, it's just a few pounds and he said, is it is that hard? Oh, no, it's not hard at all. He says, well, I think you could hold it for an hour and probably think you could hold it for three months.
No. Right. So, so the demonstration is it's not a lot that they're carrying, but they're carrying it for a very long time. Oh, and we do that all the time. Right. So, what we're trying to do here is give a visual example to people that stress is all of those elements in your life that can prey on your health, your mental well being psychology, your spirituality, all of those things that wear you down, right?
And they cause you to fatigue and as they cause the fatigue. Now they cause you harm and it begins to manifest in itself in your attitude and behavior in your sleep and in your physical well being. So [00:03:00] when there are minor problems for, so I would say if I were to break that down into a different categories, I would say it can be conducive, even beneficial if, on a daily basis, you undergo some stresses some form of challenge on an off on situation, meaning it's a problem. I solve it and I don't have to go on.
But where it begins to become problematic is where those stresses become. Nonstop, long term, and now we begin to develop these. Now we begin to develop an environment. Well, where I'm completely immersed in some type of stress and remember, stresses aren't just work. They could be physical pain. They can be depression, relationships.
They can be employment. They can be a lot of things, right? Yeah. Yeah. Very large. Right. So what we're trying to do then is we're going to focus on trying to give people some tools and an understanding that taking care of yourself. Isn't just physical being in the gym is wonderful. [00:04:00] Motion is life as far as I'm concerned.
And exercise is one of the best things to do by far better than drugs, better than anything else. But we want to give people an idea that if we don't take care of ourselves mentally, physically, emotionally, psychologically. We're going to face these stresses that never go away, and it's, we're not going to go any place.
We need to be able to have balance there. So self care is the, those things I want people to be, understand that if they don't find some way to relieve that stress or remove themselves with that, from that stressful environment. The physical ramifications can be very long term and permanent, right?
Absolutely. Right. Was that enough? Did you? Nope. That was good. Okay, good. That was awesome.
Liz Herl: Good job. Good job. Yeah. Thanks. So I was going to talk about before I go into the self care management techniques and styles and what ails us, I wanted to talk about the understanding that self care is relatively.
A newer concept and idea that's kind of come out and it's really kind of difficult. I know for a lot of individuals [00:05:00] that, that I work with and just, in my personal life, the idea of self care feels selfish and understanding the difference between self care and selfishness. And that's a bit of a struggle because we were kind of.
I always end ideally in the episodes of be compassionate towards yourself because we're incredibly hard on ourselves and giving ourselves space and taking time. And what does self care look like? And it feels really uncomfortable because I feel like I'm taking time for myself when my job or my family or something else needs me and I should be doing something else.
Tim Caldwell: Right. I would say the people who would view self care as being selfish or one sided, usually people that are very much taking care of other people. But the thing that I try to point out to people who are caregivers, especially primary caregivers, If you're taking care of somebody, who's taking care of you?
Well, you should be taking care of you. Exactly. And people depend on you to [00:06:00] be well balanced, air quotes, right? Well, if you're not who could expect you're going to serve them very well either? So that's a great point, is that. Taking care of yourself has to be primary and it's not selfishness, right?
Here's an example. I know a lot of athletes who don't go get soft tissue work done. They don't have somebody I don't want a massage. I can't afford it. I can't this. Well, I've listened to you bellyache about this ongoing Condition forever. You haven't seen chiropractic care. You haven't seen Soft tissue experts, you know, you're not taking care of yourself.
And that means going to a professional and help undo some of the things that you obviously are not. So you this injury will linger on. It will grow and you're probably something that becomes subacute and it'll put you out of action. Take care of yourself. Goodness gracious. There's a guy right across the street.
Go see the guy.
Liz Herl: Well, and I think it seems almost simple when you say it that way, but the individual idea is a bit of a challenge because [00:07:00] the demands of life and people around us. It seems a little, again, challenging to work that in. Yeah. I think of, you know, someone that's working 80 hours a week and has, you know, a family and all the other responsibilities that go into that, that the caretaking, the responsibilities of life.
Yeah. It feels very uncomfortable to press pause for a second and say, I've got to take a minute because I am, I'm not. Again, I'm not doing good to anyone else at this point. I'm not even great for it.
Tim Caldwell: I'm quick to point out to people who are really stubborn like that, especially. I don't think they're stubborn.
You're stubborn. Anyway, people who are stubborn about taking care of themselves is I can't afford to do that. I don't have the time. It's understandable. And to build on that, I will just say you can't afford not to. Okay, I can see what you're saying. Right? See, so, let's say you've kicked this, you've kicked this injury or condition down the road for five years, ten years.
Now, you have a [00:08:00] chronic condition. Now you have something that it may require surgical and pharmaceutical intervention. To just a remedy. Well, I can't afford that. Well, at this point, it's life, this, you've let this go so long now, it's Now it's altering your, perhaps your life, right, or shorten your lifespan.
Yeah. You can't afford to. You can't. And you know what? Everybody around you is going to go get help. You're just trapped in your own stubbornness, right? Go get help. Sure. Sounds. I don't. It sounds reasonable. And it's not to badger people. It's not to put people down.
It's just, you stop thinking like that. If we want to try to. You can't you can't wish cavities away. You got to go see the dentist. You can't, Oh, maybe you'll get better. Those, by the way, those five words, or maybe it'll go away. Those are career ending words, right? I've seen more athletes come in with subacute injuries and they will rest until it feels better and they'll go right back in the gym and reinjure it.
Well, that subacute now becomes [00:09:00] chronically subacute. This becomes a history pretty soon. You can't use it at all. You ruin your chances. Rest. Take care of yourself. Go see an expert on something like that. And for heaven's sakes, stop being stopped chasing your ego. Don't be so little. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Go ahead with what you're saying.
Liz Herl: So, no, I was going to go. That kind of leads us into how do we manage stress? How do we manage our environments? And I think that it's ideally an easier thought than done kind of idea, right? Easier said than done. I think it's always interesting. I actually, Share this with individuals that it's going to probably sound shocking, but stress isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Tim Caldwell: No, not all the time. And what do you think that is? As I was explaining before, stress in intervals, especially like exercise and physical stress. Those things can help bolster your ability to rebuff those things, meaning actually it's stronger at it. Right. And you get better at it each [00:10:00] time.
Liz Herl: So understanding that it gives you an opportunity for growth, right?
I have to, this is causing movement to happen. Yeah. So there's a, there's pressure applied here. And I have to break this down differently. And I think what gets in the way of that is our emotional feedback versus logic and reasoning. Yeah. And if we can look at the thought and understand, all right, what is pulling me down here?
It's not necessarily great. I will be the first to say, I try to work on this because when I personally get stressed out, I have a tendency to say, it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. And
Tim Caldwell: yes. A little. Yes, she does that a little.
Liz Herl: And I realize how much of a disservice I really am doing to myself because there's so much deflection and moving away from the stress.
Like in my mind, I'm like, it's fine. It's fine. And I have like 10 alarm fires, you know, everything's going off internally.
Tim Caldwell: Liz, let me tell, let me show them all something. This is a demonstration. When I asked Liz if her shoulder hurts. [00:11:00] No, it's okay. No, it's not okay. The stubbornness. She wants to do it and show me she can do it, but I'm fine.
We'll figure this out by doing it a different way. We're going to use it. Right.
Liz Herl: And that's a physical pain. That's a physical, I'm talking more mental. So it's a great example. It's a great example. Okay. Example. However, so when It's understanding it's uncomfortable right now. Like, that's where I'm at in the mentality of even educating others and myself, because I really think that it's so important that I share with everyone that I am no different than any other individual that has things that ail them and challenges that come along in their life.
It's just a little different that I seek out a different and I have a different education and things of that nature. So that's why I'm as transparent in that with individuals that I speak with and being able to know that how I want to reframe my thought process about what I'm enduring is [00:12:00] everything.
It is really uncomfortable right now, Liz, but it is just for now. Yeah. It is not forever. And so what's on the other side of this. So when I start. Looking on that other, and it's hard. I can tell you in just understanding people's stories that it's really difficult to say, Oh yeah, look on the brighter side of things.
No, not at all. I'm not saying that it's often it's uncomfortable, but it is just for now.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. Everything is temporary, right? You're either in a storm, gone through a storm, approaching a storm, all of those things we passed through. Now we've yeah. Use the term new year, new you.
I'm a little tired of that. I always want people to think future you, right? So in the situation that we're in right now where can we be in one day, one week, one month, and that's just change, change our frame of mind, break it into manageable parts. How can I solve this myself?
How can I solve this by asking for help? [00:13:00] How can I solve this? By changing my schedule or making a sacrifice and schedule people that I run into who don't care to train when they lay down the law. Well, I'm not going to get up early and I'm not going to eat this and I'm not going to eat that. Well, then I know what you're not going to do.
Right. But you're going to have to make some successes or excuse me, you're going to have to make some concessions in your life to make sure that you take on this new thing. And pretty soon it becomes habit. You won't even think about it. You won't even think about it.
Liz Herl: Oh, and that's, it's definitely true.
And I think. This is another part of understanding. There is a false sense of ideas around. I want to learn how to eliminate stress in my life. Well, good luck Chuck, because it isn't about eliminating stress. It's about managing it and how you're managing it through. Obviously your cognitive process is everything.
So when you see that the issue at hand, how am I looking at this and how do I really have to analyze it differently? So I'm not stuck in, you know, as [00:14:00] you know, A negative state of mind, right?
Tim Caldwell: Nothing happens without stress. Nothing. A plant, if you put a plant in a jar of water and then pull it out of the water, it just falls apart.
But a plant that grows in the soil can stand on its own. The reason being is, it's pushed its way through. It's laid out a foundation. It's grabbed onto things and now that gives it its structure. That's how we are. If we grow without foundational tethers that hold us into some type of position.
We're not gonna go anywhere. You have to have foundational tethers. And those sometimes like with a sapling, you'd stake it out, you'd give it some support to make it get stronger. That's what growing young minds is supposed to do is prepare them how to get into the world. Pretty soon we cut loose the tethers.
And now you're on your own, right?
Liz Herl: Well, I do think that and I don't want to veer off a rap, but I do think there is when you say that what comes to mind for me is what is, It's being talked about a lot in [00:15:00] everyone has a level of anxiety and this goal of eliminating anxiety in your life, anxiety, stress, whatever you want to call it.
There isn't, that isn't a possibility because there are always stressors to live a free, you know, stress free life. I don't know unless you're living in a box somewhere and you're not happy, but I think that would be stressful. I'm just saying that. There isn't, there's nothing that is not going to be.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, I don't, I can't really think of a, an occasion. I mean, I think you'd either have to be, you'd have to be I can't think of an occasion where somebody in their right mind would think that a stress free life is good. Of course, that's not my Relative, right? Those aren't built into my protocols, right?
I want people, I always want to have people that are, they're busting it, right? They're getting out there, they're grinding. Oh, okay. Well, you're grind two hour, you know, two hours, three coffee breaks. That's not how I was raised. My, I [00:16:00] have a different kind of grind but I want people to understand that grinding.
It's just that after a while you don't have to grind so hard. I have my, I used to have a motto that's was pretty much I'm a pedal hard coast guy, so the successes that I've had in my life is. I'm careful not to say nobody's ever given me anything. Well, when you look back, honestly, people have given you a lot.
People have given you a lot all around. And you either by choice or by your own stupidity or ignorance don't accept the fact that people did help you through that, but more importantly, is that getting through all of these things requires help and you have to do this as best you can, as you get stronger, you need to learn how to stand on your own two feet.
Liz Herl: So, in saying that, a perfect segue into the next part I want to talk about. The idea, and I think that sometimes people I see, I actually was watching, I've been rewatching house, which he's not a narcissist at all. And it's interesting because there's a part [00:17:00] of this, the series where he's supposed to be seeking psychotherapy for a small addiction he has.
And and he's like, well, it doesn't work. It's, you know, going to therapy doesn't work. And it's not actually even about going to, I mean, in this. Case it was, but where I'm going is when we're talking about what's going on in our lives, that's an releasing the valve a little bit. Like, so what I mean by that is to when you have a fairly good close friend or someone that you can really just share a stressor that's going on.
Yeah. Most people are like, they feel pretty good after. They're, they've kind of better got out this, you know, so this is what's going on. I have this and this, and I'm not really sure what to do here. And it's not like they're necessarily looking for answers. It's just like getting it out of their body, right out of their mouth.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Sometimes just. I'm I self talk. I mean, I've been known to, especially when I know I have to solve some [00:18:00] problem or give some type of presentation or present some type of facts. I'll be talking away in my car, right? Sometimes I record myself when I hear it. So I would I like to hear how I sound when I speak.
I try not to talk too fast, but more importantly is that's part of the thought process, right? And if we're leaving, like you say, if cracking the valve and letting other people know a little bit about it. You can do that dispassionately through a professional, if you don't have a friend. I highly encourage that.
I think that's, it's a good, it's a very good thing. But if you have the ability to have, you know, every family has that one family member who's the bartender, right? And you feel like you can trust them. You need to go talk to them. If you value their opinion, if you value their Wisdom or sage advice.
Go speak to them.
Liz Herl: So one of the things that I share with again is with people is that when you're talking about your problems don't look like [00:19:00] they're going to be solved in that conversation because what actually happens is whining. No, I don't. I disagree. I mean, I think I see when you say it's whining, but what happens when we release the pressure within us is we actually release.
Hormones. And those hormones release all of this relaxed, you know, peace over our body and we're like, Oh, I can actually breathe a little bit more. Like I feel so much better that I got that out. It's very similar to Rage rooms for people go in and scream or break stuff or do things. Yeah, that's good hormone release right there of, you know, letting the cap off a little bit.
Yeah. Yeah. And someone can walk out like, Oh my God, I feel so much better. And it's like, yeah. Okay. That's great. Nothing was really resolved in that. No, you just, you know, broke all this stuff up, but actually there was some stuff that was really good that happened in your body. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that.
So that's why I said that.
Tim Caldwell: I think one thing that's important is that people have, first of all, they need to have the ability to [00:20:00] diagnose where they are in the, in that stress level, right? So self diagnosis is something dangerous. It is dangerous, but you should, hopefully you develop at least a closeness to yourself where you can say, you know what?
Man, my head is just jammed in my shoulders lately. I have tense shoulders. I have headaches. I'm not resting well. A good sign of depression is. Being tired all the time, right? It can be where you can go through you, you can close your eyes and go to sleep. It's a drop of a hat. That's not just age, Liz, cause I like to nap.
She teases me all the time that I like to nap, but it is part of it's part of those things that we want to be able to put our thumb on and say. You know, I I don't have much of an appetite or I'm eating more way more than I normally do, or I'm not being very social or I'm drinking too much, or I'm [00:21:00] sleeping too much or somewhere in there you've established some type of metrics that's a normal life air quotes, but then you veered off that now I'm doing something more than I used to more or less than I used to, right?
I'm detached from my relationships. Oops. I'm detached from my family, I'm moody, I'm bitchy, right? All of those things that can happen to people when they're in a bad mood. And, you know, one of the nicest things that if somebody really cares, let's go, what's going on? Yeah. Somebody that's big for me and my the guys I've been in service with the guys that are first responders.
The guys I have fellowship with when I'm in the gym, and not to, you know, not to make it more than I am. It is nice to see when people aren't doing well, another guy reach out and go, Hey man, what's going on? Yeah, 100%. It's a nice thing. Yeah, it's a nice thing.
Liz Herl: So, in following this line of thought, [00:22:00] Prioritizing your responsibilities.
So we have everything coming at us. We have, you know, life, you know, 500 miles an hour. Well, if we can learn to focus, slow down and complete small tasks that shows movement, a positive growth within self of, you know, I was able to do this, but when we sit and we look at a full week's worth of tasks, financial obligations and time consuming thing, they were just drowning.
And then the people that you have to engage with that you don't want to engage with, you know, whatever it's going to be. And it's just like, oh my goodness I'm stopping before I get started. Right. And so you are really setting your entire mindset up with a negative feedback right there. You're just ready.
You're going to be moody. You're going to not sleep. Well, those are things that's going to, you know, put you at risk for that. However, you're like, all right, what does tomorrow hold? And what do I want to make tomorrow? I recently started. There's of course, a lot of these ideas online. But with my daughter she's gonna be 10 next month, but with my whole family, but we [00:23:00] started this activity the other night.
We are calling it the jar of goodness, I think is what it's called. So it's, you put a positive statement of what happened that day for you, put your initials on it. We put in a post it and then we put it in the jar. And at the end of the year, we open the jar and we read all the things. That's nice.
Right. So, it's, for me, it's more about I hear a lot of struggles with my children around education and bullying and things of that nature of being able to say, if I want to walk away with one positive thought this way, right?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, it is a tool to help people realize. I had a bad day, but I'm still seeking gratitude.
I can still pull some gratitude out of this. Somebody was not nice to me. The neat thing in the exercise that reminded me of something my son has taught me, we've exercised it a few things. He'll go, I want you to go over to them and say three nice things to them. He'll literally put you on the spot.
I like it. And we, I think that's funny. I think it's great because I call him the age, my agent of [00:24:00] chaos he's such a smart young man, but he'll put you right on the spot and he'll, okay. And you have to go over there and you don't want to look a fool. You want to go looking good. You know, everything going to shouldn't be lies and it shouldn't be you know, it shouldn't be sarcasm, but.
It's just a good way to recognize that there, there is good in things and try to find it for, try to find it for that other
Liz Herl: person.
And that's what I'm saying. When you break your goals down or break your next day down it's just Monday or it's just to whatever day of the week it is. And well, you don't understand.
I have this meeting with this person and they're going to, you know, I know what their list of demands are going to be and they're just really hostile to work with them all. Okay. All right. Well, you already know that. Right. So why you're just. You know, revolving in that thought, okay, what am I going to do to manage it and say, all right, you know, like after I get done, I'm going to go treat myself to like ice cream or coffee.
I don't know something which is not necessarily, you know, in health, right. Ideal, but just I'm going [00:25:00] to take myself to lunch something to get away or reward myself to the next. Part. Yeah. It doesn't have to be anything large or even monetary, even a simple, wow, you kind of handled that you're kind of a bad ass there and internal feedback is incredibly important.
Yeah, that's great. And the fact that we look at the daunting task, we don't look at making it smaller and saying, Hey, I did get through that. And that was really good. And that was okay.
Tim Caldwell: A point I meant to make Jordan Peterson points this out, but it's actually. Okay. It's happened in my life more than once is that I'll get into some type of situation that it's daunting.
There's so much to do and some of these things are really big things. Some are really expensive things, but it's all part of the same project. But what will happen is, you know what? Let's say you're building a house. You know what I'm going to do first? I'll cut the grass. And then, you know, in your list of things to do, it's last, but you know what?
I need something in the [00:26:00] win column. I need something to just give me a little bit of a dopamine kick. Let me know that I got something that, you know, what's next. I'm going to make sure that I I'm just going to police up the area, make sure it's tidy, get my tools ready. I call it building my theater.
So. When I'm going to operate in a theater, I want to make sure all my tools need to be where they need to be, and that they're easily accessible instead of just this melee where I'm looking for stuff. I put that in the win column. Sure. So what it's doing is it's slowly beginning to funnel you towards your work in an incremental way.
And now when you take on this big project, I'm not taking on the big project. Today I do this. That's all.
Liz Herl: And it's, I think it really is the focus of basic daily living versus we look like this band is large and long and you know, how do I manage myself throughout that day versus again,
Tim Caldwell: yeah part of the self care really is being able to understand what kind of stresses you can be under.
The self diagnosis, can you see these things that are bothering [00:27:00] you, especially sleep, but when we get into the activity of what am I going to, what am I going to do to correct this? So the first thing to do is put your thumb on what really is the problem. Now there may be several, but let's knock one out of the park first, right?
I have bills over my head. I have immediate bills I need to pay. How do I do that? Get something done. That's relatively simple by yourself. Sometime if you need to buy, which is good communication, just tell people, for instance, as a tool to say I know that my rent is late by a week. If I'm doing everything I can, if you just give me another week, communication typically, especially money is such a big money is a make or break and more people have faced financial ruin through medical bills and stuff like that, but if you'll communicate with, nobody wants to go broke, no bank that's giving you a loan is just chomping at the bit [00:28:00] to go repossess your car or to kick you out on the street.
No bank wants that, but if you'll communicate with them. I'm coming up with a plan. I'm doing the very best I can. What can you do to suggest it might help? Can I get an extension? Those communications specifically around finances, they can just buy you some time and knock things down, knock the fire down just a little bit.
Communication is always a best tool, right? It's always one of the best. Truthfully say that I'm in a bad spot and I need a little help here, right? And if you need to gear, gear, how you live up, excuse me, gear up to how you live and reconfigure that so that you have living more within your means. Yeah.
You're going to put yourself on a financial diet and that might be peanut butter and jelly for a week or two. Suck it up buttercup. Right. Right. Okay.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Yeah. And within all of that, I think that reducing that rapid thought process that have, we start collecting everything together in our mind of [00:29:00] everything that the pressures that are compiling upon us.
And I, I. I don't mean to sound like I'm repeating myself, but I literally talk about the obsessive thinking that we get into about our problems, about our stressors of. Whereas when individuals may listen to that information you just provided, well, you don't understand because this is going to happen.
The foresight of all the sightings of this is going to happen. I'm not even going to try anything because this is going to happen. And this is that's not going to do any good, right? Do any good, right? None of that is going to work. And I, and I. You haven't even tried. See you're not even you're already crushing it before you're attempting anything.
You're not a mind reader. You don't know. And you, now here's what we do. We fall to experience. So if my experience is I have tried something in this avenue before and it was, it failed me or I failed it, whatever. Then I'm not going to do that again. Experience tells me not to repeat that. Well, the reality of it, that is that one [00:30:00] event in that interaction situation, whatever.
Yeah. If I try something else with a new person or a new situation, I should be optimistic, potentially,
Tim Caldwell: or at least not by yourself, right? Yeah, right.
Liz Herl: But I think that mind reading like gets to when I say mind reading, I think it's more psychic driven of like, I see the domino effect of how this is not going to work.
So I'm just not going to try.
Tim Caldwell: Believe me. When you come up, when people come up against entrepreneurs or people who are very independent or strong willed, they actually have, I congratulate them on being the most pessimistic people. You have found a problem for every solution I've come up with. Absolutely.
Right. And I don't want you on my team. I don't want you, I don't want to hear you talk about it. If we're going to, if we're going to address this pro problem, we're going to do it with a positive mindset, right? We're going to look at a goal. We're going to figure out how to, how this goal is. You and I both know that in the trade that I've been in, I, it is a broken [00:31:00] record that I've tried this a hundred times.
I've had no success. I said that. Yes. I did. I did. Yeah. Truthfully. Yeah. Lots of people do. But to me, I say that there's no exception to this. Everyone can do this. It's just how do we resolve this? Don't be trapped in the same net you've allowed yourself to be trapped in all this time. You can cut yourself free by simply just saying, look, I'm going to put myself in your hands.
Now, this sounds like something I would a story I would tell somebody if they ever came to me to retain my services, but it really is. We can resolve this. First, what we're going to do is we're going to lay this out because if I were to draw a Venn diagram, and these are all my problems, I'll bet you I can funnel all 100 percent of those problems into this little tiny thing that if I took care of that, most of that would go away, right?
Opposite side of that is you can have all of the things that you have in your life. Health, wealth, cars, [00:32:00] beautiful people, parties, houses, money, all I have to do is take away your health, you'll enjoy none of it. Health is what holds everything together in your life, mental, physical, spiritual health. When you have that in balance, when you have that in check, or you have the ability to Get those things back in balance.
You have the ability to go on and be anything you want to be,
Liz Herl: right? Absolutely. I think that one of the things I would like to stress, and that is the understanding that one I'm talking about around learning to manage your stress is that it will not be easy. It is really challenging to train your brain.
To cognitively process different about situations in life that you have previously done in the beginning decades. I know, but I just think that I don't want to set people up for failure that I, this, you know, idea that goes around of three, [00:33:00] five, think five happy thoughts. And you'll be happy. That is just nonsense.
The idea is that we trained. Our brains to encounter events to happen and respond in a certain way, if it's dramatic or something else. So that are not only does our brain automatically respond that way as well, does our body to just think you're going to hit the brakes to that and say, well, you know, I've got these this idea, so I'm just going to do this.
And it's not really, no, you have to train your brain over and over to learn how to manage this. And it's always going to be challenging.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Great point. I. Finances is usually what gets people into trouble. Young men really like to help always have new things and they get overextended.
And I've had the opportunity to know a lot of really good men and they're driving 50, 000 cars, but they're living in terrible little apartments, right? I would say follow the Warren Buffett plan and find yourself this. POS, little [00:34:00] car that gets great gas mileage and is dependable as a watch. And it may not look like much, but drive that thing for 10 years and you'll be able to save all kinds of money for something that's really yours.
Right. It's a trade off, but you need to resign yourself that. You can only do what you can in your own means and every time you overextend you add stress You're gonna have to bring yourself up in your game. Now you and I we kind of thrive on that we're always trying to take on something that requires us pick up our game because I'm comfortable being uncomfortable Like I'm okay with that.
It's just part I like that. That's why training has always been interesting for me. And I'd like to bring that into, I'd like to bring that and introduce that into people's lives too, is because they realize, wow, I did this physically. I can do this financially. I can do this in business.
I can do this in relationships. I can take some, I can take some risks, but the first thing that we got to do is make sure that take a full systems check [00:35:00] and go. How am I doing? Well, pretty stressed here right now. I'm, I got bills over my head. I got family over my head. I got concerns over, okay let's dial in.
What can I do that would affect the most? What's the most bang for the buck? And who can I talk to about this? Can I go to credit counseling? Can I contact my credit card people and ask to get a a lower rate? Can I get an extension? . I know I always keep going back to. Or at least they use finance as an example, but it's prevalent in everybody's lives.
Well,
Liz Herl: right. And it is a big stressor for people that is a driving force. I think relationships are another stressor in individuals lives. I coworker stress working with the public, all kinds of different interactions that when you have to go back to it day after day, and it feels like I cannot do this another day.
And that's when I would say, you know, when you start taking. Stuck in the idea of how am I feeling when I'm getting up for work and I'm doing things and I'm getting myself ready how aware and awake am [00:36:00] I, you know, where's my mood and if those things start to impair you too far, you need to start taking, you know, another look at that and saying, all right, something else going on.
I have to figure out, you know, what's something else is dragging me down. So where can people find some help? Well, I think that these are all the skill sets that it's a lot of, I'm talking about self. I mean, obviously talking to someone that is a mental health provider would be ideal. But these are a lot of men, a lot of these tips, which we'll put on our show notes.
You'll be able to reflect back on them, our individual areas that you can start beginning to work on within yourself. Join a group. Yeah. Join a group. Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: Churches, men's groups,
Liz Herl: women's groups. They're out there. Oh, yeah. Which kind of goes into the next point where we're actually going to talk about setting time for yourself and learning, how do I do that?
We don't do that nearly enough. And ideally it's not really as. [00:37:00] Much as an individual might think, and that is the fact that when I say set time for yourself, I mean, no social media, no no devices at all, not just phone but no devices and just some self reflection time of, man, this is, I just really need to kind of connect with me and take care of me for a minute.
Now this takes discipline. Oh, this takes a lot of discipline. I can't tell you and it's understandable. I want to be clear how many individuals struggle with sitting with themselves by themselves in their own space and kind of just like, all right, so it gets very uncomfortable very quickly because you kind of.
Start getting lost in your own thoughts a little bit. Absolutely. Well, all right. So start kind of going through this. Don't go right into, you know, which initially the negative vein is going to pop up, but it's like, all right, so I needed to expect this, take a notebook and say, okay, this is something that's been bothering me.
All right. How do I, and I do, I'm really big on the old fashion and I guess old fashion is keyword paper and pen with people. [00:38:00] Yes, you would know better than. Anyone is,
Tim Caldwell: When the power goes out, that pin still works. Okay.
Liz Herl: And but being able to sit with yourself and be compassionate and saying, I knew this was going to be uncomfortable comfortable at some point, but at least I'm trying to do something.
And I really want to, you know, take some time for
Tim Caldwell: myself. When we start looking into addressing sleep hygiene and those habits to help people sleep, this is going to tie directly into it. And that is. Putting away that phone before you go to bed and I mean, have a period before I know before sleep and it's just not possible most people get in.
They literally to the 2nd, they pass out or maybe even pass out with their phone. And I've got my both of my sons sleep with phones in their hands. Sure. And, it's a concern. It's a concern, but all you know, it's their phone. If that's what they want to do. And they're young men. I do try to reiterate the fact that's some poisonous stuff that comes through the screen and it's the light that saturates your brain and it keeps you [00:39:00] very active.
And it's really hard for you about your new circadian cycle to spin down into a relaxing relaxation mode when you've got all that light and blue light coming in so late.
Liz Herl: Yeah, and again, that's why I say take a break from social media devices, things of that nature as well as perspective is key for yourself.
And what I mean by that is we don't intentionally sometimes I don't think that's always our intentional idea is to overwhelm ourselves with all the upcoming. What have you, but we tend to catastrophize events that are on the horizon of how everything is going to fall apart very quickly and it's all coming down.
It's all coming to a head. It's all going to come on me. And then it's like, well, that's a different matter of viewing that challenge, right, of saying, I, I can see this looks really tough and I'm a huge I'm really, I think it's really important for individuals to look at things with their eyes wide open and not be like, Oh, well, it's not so bad.
Well, actually it's really uncomfortable and it's really hard [00:40:00] and it feels terrible. Okay. Yeah. I can see that there's a lot of things going to go on. Now, what do I need to do to manage that? And I need to start here and not be looking up there to figure out how I get going from here. Yeah. Right. Does it make sense?
Oh, yeah. And just, you know, perspective is
Tim Caldwell: key. Yeah. You know, the analogy there is you're facing this enormous set of steps. Take the first one first. Don't look all the way to the top. Don't look to the summit. Look to five steps up. Let's get five steps up and then we'll reevaluate. It's simple.
Piece by piece.
Liz Herl: Little by little. So, I'm going to put these on, what I just reviewed over stress management those concepts and ideas, and I'm just going to highlight some of the mindfulness and meditation. We'll have more time some other time to get into these, but this just gives you there's a lot of different apps out there.
That I actually recommend better sleep app to my clients for guided meditation or our meditation[00:41:00] to be able to sleep better at night. And I know it's been a very effective tool for a lot of my clients.
Tim Caldwell: Breakdown meditation. Debunk meditation. It's not sitting cross legged on the floor repeating a macho, right?
Meditation is just your chance to slow down, maybe concentrate on your breathing a little bit more. Relax. It's really,
Liz Herl: that's really uncomfortable for people to do. I know.
Tim Caldwell: I know. Oh, we've talked about this. You get into bed and you've been so worked up and you go. And then you tell yourself to relax and your body actually relaxes where you thought you were relaxed, but you're not, you've been holding yourself all day like that.
And then finally, you can feel yourself relax.
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: That's a trick in itself, right? You got to tell yourself to relax. Absolutely. That's part of what meditation is. It's just a chance to focus a little bit more on the internal and let the external stimulus kind of fade away and have some positive thoughts.
Liz Herl: One of the things that I [00:42:00] share with individuals is mindful breathing. Now again, there's a lot of there has been in the past and I think there's getting a better education around when I say mindful breathing exercises of saying take 10 deep breaths and you'll feel better. Is not necessarily the outcome.
And someone's like, well, I still feel terrible and they're hyperventilating. It's again with the brain training. So our brains have to be able to connect with our bodies, which is why this collaboration even spurred. And that is. Being able to say, if I'm taking, am I attached to my body right now? Am I like presently in, can I feel my toes?
Can I feel my calves? Can I feel like, you know, my thighs, do I feel like I'm connected to myself? And when I'm taking these deep breaths that's, there's such a, of an all encompassing of that, and that takes a lot of tries and you have to train your brain in that. So mindful breathing is a great exercise.
It is something that you repeat and train your brain repetitively. Now, I will tell you that I have a [00:43:00] lot of techniques that I try because unlike you that can fall asleep in the middle of a tornado, I'm a professional, I My mind is constantly going and I have constant things that I'm thinking about and things that I need to do and my list are always growing and that doesn't stop when I go to sleep.
So when I go to lay down, there's a couple of different tricks that I have taught myself through mindfulness of being able to. Kind of connect with myself and relax my body. And I've done it so often now. It's so, reactive or my brain reacts to it so well that I can normally get to an immediate relaxed state.
And within 15 to 20 minutes, I have an easier time falling off to sleep to healthy sleep. Whereas yours has improved
Tim Caldwell: since the exercise.
Liz Herl: Oh, yes. Dramatically. Dramatically. Well, probably because I'm exhausted. It was,
Tim Caldwell: yeah, but it. But it was an issue, remember in training, that yeah you would report, man, I'm just not sleeping.
Liz Herl: Right. Right. And I think that was, [00:44:00] yeah, no, there's a lot of things there, but I definitely think that the hormonally and just how that has Recalibrated my brain. So, which is another topic, but so mindful breathing will be on there as well as a body scan meditation. And then that's a little bit more when I'm talking about being aware of your entire body.
Yeah. And I think it's great. When we talk about muscle constriction and relaxation, when we're going to like being able to do that and start feeling it. Cause You're just like, well, I don't know how to do that. Well, these are practices that you have to do and we don't have to, but they're helpful.
One tool,
Tim Caldwell: a device that's like, there are apps that'll help you with your breathing too. Oh, tons. Fitbit is by no means a sponsor. They can be if they want to be, but my Fitbit I got because I wanted to monitor my sleep because I have sleep apnea. Well, when I lost a bunch of weight, my sleep apnea got better and I do have a CPAP, but I only wear it occasionally.
But, you know, excuse me, my, my Fitbit has a breathing program on it that. Allows you to, you breathe and then it will register and you just [00:45:00] hold it there. The exercise I think is for two minutes. Apple watch has the same thing. And you're trying to just breathe and turn that thing green and it'll score you at the end.
Oh, it's graded. It's neat. But you know, it's not like you're after great grades here. You're just right. Just working on habits, building a habit. Right. It was neat. It was neat.
Liz Herl: Very good. Those are just a couple. Well, again, we'll get into a more in depth and kind of go over how meditation plays a significant role on another later episode.
But these are just some highlights of that. I do want to get to sleep hygiene. Then I mean the negative impacts of what we do to our body when we don't properly rest our mind and our body because they are connected and when we don't get adequate sleep. A lot of things happen to us. We're not so cheery to get along with.
Tim Caldwell: No, we're not. And the detrimental effects of improper sleep are massive. Now we know that sleep deprivation, it only [00:46:00] takes five days. And you believe you begin to drastically impact your cognitive ability. You can go insane, not sleep, right? So I can go without food for weeks. I can go out without water for a few days, but sleep.
It will kill you if you don't get any proper sleep. The important aspect behind all of sleep is it's a reset. It gives your brain and central nervous system a chance to shut down or at least gear down so that they can process the day, recover and recoup and kind of build you up so that you have what is needed in those aspects for the next day.
Improper sleep is monumental in, in your ability to heal, right? And when I say heal, I mean all aspects of healing. If you are mentally fatigued and you continue to get bad sleep, you will be mentally fatigued all the time. It will run you down mentally, spiritually, your [00:47:00] personality takes a dive. Your ability to solve problems, communicate, they're, they just go in the trash.
So, when we talk about mental hygiene, I have people and you'll, I'm sure share more, but I have people I want them to at least discuss that with me. And that is. Before rest at night, I want you to do away with all your devices at least an hour. Now, I would say three is more ideal, but you know, you have a business.
I don't take any phone calls after seven o'clock. I know that's your sleep at seven Oh one. That's not true. I do go to bed early. It's just that I don't want, I don't, I'm doing all that I can to, you know, get myself to calm down. I don't want hassles of business. I don't want emails. I don't want texts.
I don't want any of that stuff. I've managed it. It seems to work pretty fine for me. I also don't want the blue light aspect to come in. If you're a Facebook or a social media guy or a TikToker or whatever, if that stuff gets you jazzed up, [00:48:00] you're going the wrong way. If you're a gamer and you're a first person guy and you're, that's gonna kill you.
You gotta step away. You gotta step away. And I know some really successful gamers. And they'll tell you 1st, 1st hand that it's actually changed the way that they think and process and they have a really hard time focusing on some things. Now, they can hyper focus, but what happens is they have a hard time shutting things down.
And what I also find too is. Our visual abilities are have duality. One is focused and one is more self defense. If we are constantly in that mode, you will find that your brain just never has a chance to shut down. Even if I were to put it down, an example of which, if you go someplace and sleep, let's say you're traveling, you have to stay in a hotel.
It's highly unlikely you get really successful sleeps in a hotel. Reason being. It's foreign. It's foreign to you.[00:49:00] Your surroundings are foreign, but your brain activity is actually elevated because there is a component of your brain that is now listening and very hyper aware to noises and stuff. I'm sorry.
People may argue. I sleep like a, you know, I sleep like a bear, maybe, but I would still challenge you that active part of those active components of your brain are online. So that's part of it. You know, do away with the devices. Get yourself on a regular diet towards sleep. I used to get, now it's not as bad as it used to be, but I used to have so many alarms.
I have an alarm to go to bed and I know that people think that's strange, but because I get up at two 30 every morning to prep food for me, so everybody has fresh food and then be to my first client at 5 a. m. I need to make sure that I'm in bed by 8 30 and that's important to me. And the more regular you stay in that, the more regular you stay in that sleep.
The more I'm able [00:50:00] to function properly. And then on my weekends, I get up at 2 30, whatever. I don't know. I, but I do reward myself with a little extra sleep and I'm a napper, right? If I can have a chance to put my clothes, my eyes, I nap.
Liz Herl: He does nap. I like to nap. So he is a napper that. Kind of goes into so the negative effects.
You just are listing so many. And one of the things that happens with our our sleep is it's going to intensify. I always say stress begins. Stress turns into anxiety. Anxiety turns into depression and so forth. So any mental health, you know, components of that. It's going to just, it really intensify those because you're not getting proper rest.
You're not. So what is happening to I, and I hear this a lot when I'm assessing an individual around cognitive fog of like, I just, I, I don't know why I can't seem to grasp words or I can't seem to, you know, think clearly. And so I, how are you sleeping? Like that's like that. How are you sleeping?
Because that is the number. One thing that [00:51:00] pops to my mind, it pops in my mind because the cognitive process that takes place that will be impaired is your memory consolidation and problem solving and decision making. And those things are all going to be impaired as far as being able to utilize those effectively and efficiently as quickly as possible in in type of engagement that you're having.
And so therefore you're like, well, so how are you sleeping? And like, well, I think I'm sleeping. Okay. Well, what is sleeping? Okay. So, I mean, it's a further, you know, assessment there, but I think that understanding that. Within that, then we go into mood disturbances, like everybody. I mean, you think about, you know, getting your kids up for school.
Cause I know I have some cranky bear sometimes just like getting ready. I was just thinking after the holidays, I had to get my youngest daughter back into the regimen of getting up for school and saying, all right, so there's all this free time and schedules got all off and like having to get her back into the schedule of getting up and getting ready and starting her day.
And. She did fairly well. I was actually impressed, but [00:52:00] there's been a lot of mornings that there's like grumpy bears at the breakfast table and I'm just like, okay how did you know, how did you sleep? And did you sleep well? And things like that. But as adults, we tend to over stress ourselves in, well, I have, again, I want to go back to what I was talking about with stress management, but I have all of these deadlines and I have all these things I have to do.
So I'm going to stay up to this. Period of time and do whatever I shared with you that yesterday are my late evenings and I was actually in the clinic until 10 o'clock at night and then I got up at five this morning and I started my day until I can absolutely notice that there's a difference that I'm exhausted because I don't get home late.
And then there's, of course a shutting down process and everything. So, and you're just not as alert and ready to go and doing the things you need to do.
Tim Caldwell: So we've talked about this in the past. So part of when I started discussing your problem sleeping. I asked you, you shower before or after bed and you would tell me sometimes both, but you like really hot showers now [00:53:00] going to bed after a really hot shower is really not very productive because your body can't, your body needs to cool down to rest properly.
And if you take really hot showers before bed. You're going to have an extended cool down period, and it's just really uncomfortable for your body to do. And you'll have this restlessness that might even lead you to getting up because you're that uncomfortable.
Liz Herl: You know, I just until now, I forgot you said that my daughter and I were having a conversation the other night because we both have excessively hot showers and then we're both a little restless afterwards.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. That's right. I always recommend. It's a very least you can have a nice warm shower, but you need to cool that thing down and you need to be able to cool your body down before you even get into bed. So, you know, in my house, it sounds like an airport because I have fans blowing all over the place.
But. Get yourself in a place where it's nice and cool, dark in the room. You don't want to have a television going in the background. You don't want to have typically I fall asleep pretty well, but my wife will stay up late and read. She does that mostly through [00:54:00] a Kindle. I have concerns about Kindle because that light that comes through the screen is exciting your neurology.
Right. It's exciting. Right. So, but to each their own, I would just say you can read in red light. You can take out a regular bulb and put it in red light and still read. It's a bit more challenging, but at least your brain picks up on the ambient colors and how they change. That's what's that's what dawn and dusk and all that is it actually gears are neurology to accept the idea that we're going from a bright light to an orange light to a red light and then finally no light.
So, at the very least, if you have blackout curtains and you have kind of a noisy environment, the very best you can to cool the room quiet the room make it very dark. You cannot you can use I coverage, you can use your coverage, you can use all those things. That's not my cup of tea, but whatever you need to cool down.
If you need to have some white noise, I like white noise. My, my affinity for white noise came about because I was in the Navy [00:55:00] and my, the bulkhead that I slept close to was near the engine room. So there's always that drama of the engine. I like that. It's just that's a guy thing. That's a guy thing.
Okay. There you go. But whatever you need to just cool down. Maybe it's Kenny G in the back. I don't know. Shaw day. I don't know.
Liz Herl: I don't know.
Whatever it takes, I suppose. However I think some other areas that I wanted to touch on just briefly, really quickly and is understanding that how much further than just our moods and, one thing I was going to say is that sometimes we respond, we have a low tolerance of engaging stressful situations where we are able to manage it a little bit more successfully. And now we've had a rough day or we're not really certain. We're just off in our day. I'm like, man, I normally can manage that a lot better.
Well, how are you sleeping? And another part of this is, I think it's really important to talk about it really can compromise your immune function as well as your metabolic and I was, when I looked that up I was researching this. I was like, I [00:56:00] hadn't, I wasn't aware of that. I'll be honest. I wasn't aware that how it weakens your immune system and makes you more susceptible to illnesses because you're not healing your body.
Tim Caldwell: In my realm is. As a coach and trainer you know, people who, they tell me that their goals are to this, well, if you're in, if you work for a living and you come in the rigors of working out, if you are not putting yourself, if you are not tasking yourself to get a minimum of seven to eight hours, you're not doing enough.
You need to prioritize your life where you can get that kind of sleep, continuous sleep, deep sleep as best you can. It's tough. It's tough. Yeah. Now, there are people out there who, you know, if you've become, if you become a pro athlete, you have a sponsor, that's your whole life to live in a gym and somebody's going to pay you.
Hey, good for you. But that's not the real world to 99. 99 percent of the people. So you need to find the very best way to get good nutrition, have a, have your regular diet and regime [00:57:00] of sleep and make sure that you're initiating all the things that need to be done so that you can. Fall to sleep in a regular pattern and then make sure you're getting up on time, right?
one of the one of the downsides to Having an irregular or a poorly regulated sleep cycle is sometimes you sleep really late Right. I'm not a big proponent of that meaning if I were on vacation I still get up at the same time or at least I adjust my time at least adjust my time So at least On that time period, I'm getting up at the same time getting up at irregular times, since confusing messages to my brain.
Right? That's why when I travel, especially if I travel to the West, because I get up so early. Oh, and here I am haunting someplace at 2 a. m. Well, they've got 4 more hours of sleep. That's tough. Now, if I go east, I'm fine, right? I'm up. I'm up with everybody else. But I just want people to understand that the regularity is the biggest, it's the [00:58:00] biggest component.
Liz Herl: And this is something I had actually heard yet again from individuals, like when I'm really stressed, I don't eat. And you, okay, you don't have to point it out. However, I wasn't referring to myself. Thanks. The best. Liz does that. The bus tires feel great. So what I'm saying is that I've had other individuals say that I may not be eating as much as I should when I am stressed and, but I am still gaining weight.
And that's one of the things that knocks off your metabolic system and it impairs it. So someone's like, I don't understand. I ate like four crackers and I went to sleep and I'm still getting it. And it's like, and I'm sure that's a little exaggerated before crackers piece, but it's just saying, you know, how much it plays a role in your whole system operating efficiently.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, the there's science behind that. There's actually really good studies about people in prison who they gain weight and they have really poor health and it's because they're not getting natural sunlight. [00:59:00] They have odd hours. Stress is incredibly high. Sleep is something they just do not get.
Well, it raises ADH pretty soon. Their kidneys start to malfunction. Pretty soon they retain water. Pretty soon they have Hashimoto's or, you know, hypothyroidism. They have all of these different functions that begin to cascade in the downward cycle because. Sleep and stress is killing them. It just is. And they're eating three squares and you know, they have three squares and three meals or three hot cot every day.
But people don't understand in a stressful environment when things aren't right, it'll run you in the ground.
Liz Herl: Right? I mean, because there is the other side of this of having too much sleep. Yes, there is. We can discuss that another time because that could just be as impairing. So yeah, be cautious.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, it can actually. It can spin your cycle so negatively with so much sleep that now hormonal and circadian rhythms become interrupted and the hormonal effect with your [01:00:00] serotonin, insulin how your body becomes insulin resistant. That's not a huge component, but you begin to gain weight, your metabolism drops so slow.
It doesn't take hardly anything and you'll start to put on weight really quickly. So there's a balance, right?
Liz Herl: So the real goal of wrapping up this is just letting it's an informative piece and all of these techniques and styles we'll put in our show notes. So you're welcome to review them, but overall, hopefully it's informative and helpful.
You know,
Tim Caldwell: We'll talk about this all the time when it comes to training. We'll talk about this all the time about the importance of what you can do to, not necessarily tricks, but sometimes biohacks to make sure that you're getting to sleep on time or finding a way to. Get your meals and rest, even timing your meals before rest.
So you don't go to bed with a big full stomach, but you're not going to bed with an empty stomach where you're dieting. And now all I can do is think about food. There's a balance, right?
Liz Herl: With life, everything, there is a balance. Well, thank you. Thanks, Liz. That was good.
Tim Caldwell: [01:01:00] I as always, guys, I want people to take care of themselves and I mean that sincerely that's self care is because somebody else is probably depending on you too.
Liz Herl: Right? Well, I'm going to say, as always, be compassionate towards yourself because you should be taking care of yourself because you're not taking care of you. You're probably not taking care of everything else that's going on, whether you like to hear that or not. And nobody else is going to do it. No, probably not.
But you're, you are the, and I just put that in an. A reel I put out, and that is, there is, there's only one you. Yeah, true. So you should take care of you as much as possible. Yeah, thanks
Tim Caldwell: Liz. Thanks guys. Peace.