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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Speaker 17: Tryna walk the walk.
Truth on the mic, no shame
here, just real talk.
Came from the outside, never fit in.
Now we tell the story
and the healing begins.
No front, no mask, just telling the truth.
Keep it real, keep it raw,
speaking straight from the booth.
If you feeling like an
outsider, this one's for you.
Uh.
Yeah
Speaker 18: Welcome to another episode
of Unashamed, Unafraid . We are unashamed
of sexual addiction recovery and unafraid
of coming unto Christ for healing.
. Sam: Todayâ¦
on the podcastâ¦..
we're gonna fire the old
God and hire the new one.
austin, I just wanted to- ⦠draw
attention to the fact that you are here.
Thanks for being on.
You've only been on the
show twice now yeah.
We've also got Mason and James.
James, as Chris likes to say.
Speaker 2: So let's start off
with, like, l- what is the old God?
Let's, if, so somebody's listening
for the first time, they're like,
"What are these guys talking about?"
Speaker 3: My old God is transactional,
shaming, only loves me when I'm
doing good, and is not there,
when I've done anything bad.
Speaker: a lot of the old versions of
God that I've done, like, some good
healing around are actually still,
there, just in a less extreme form.
Speaker 2: Yep, yep.
So- They still pop up.
Speaker: Yeah.
So- So for me, like, I, I did a whole
week of trauma therapy surrounding, going
back and talking to the old God, and.
bringing in the new God, to, give little
Sam what he needed in those moments
when he thought that God hated him.
Sam: The old God was transactional
the same way , Mason said.
James: So if We were in a therapy
session, I would tell you your homework
is to write out the false version
of God\ that you have carried around
so, , I always felt like God was
perpetually disappointed in me.
Speaker 2: Right?
I believed that I had to have a certain
level of perfection in order for God to
even want to be remotely close to me Okay?
So write that down.
And then, can I determine
where that belief came from?
And this is where Mason's
kind of at right now.
He's like, "No, for sure
I got it from church.
They told it to me like that."
and I'm like, "You may have heard
something at church, and you interpreted
it in a way that caused you to
create a false belief about God."
Mm-hmm.
But in all likelihood, they probably
did not tell you God hates you,
or that God is super distant and
in fact is basically never around.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Speaker 2: I have yet to attend
any- ⦠church meetings that
God is described that way.,
I'm with you.
Like, I'm like, "No, for sure
I, I picked up that God is
perpetually disappointed in me."
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And so I have to
challenge, like that- it was
not taught to me that way.
I interpreted some of the things
they said with my shame goggles
on, and it turned into that.
Speaker 3: So- It's gotta
come from somewhere, right?
That original shame, right?
Sure.
Like, so where does that come from?
You know, is that like- Uh, for
Speaker: me it's been-
⦠Speaker 3: family of origin or?
⦠Speaker: parental relationships.
I love the quote, " it's hard to find
a father in God until you first found
something of God in your own father."
Yeah.
I think the same thing applies for
your relationship with your mother.
In fact, I initially had a lot
more pain in that relationship.
That's where I started to find it- Mm
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker: The stuff I felt shame
about in my bishop's office was
the stuff I felt shame about in
my relationship with my parents.
Mm.
It wasn't about the bishop.
Hmm.
, Speaker 2: In my experience, most, people
will pick it up just because we live in
essentially a behavioral based society
, we are brought up in a behavioral system
where, you're rewarded and praised for
good behaviors and outcomes, so it's
just kind of an outcome based type- Very
Speaker 3: transactional
⦠Speaker 2: tran- yeah.
So, like, getting a good grade,
the teacher tells you you're a
good boy and good job, right?
A lot of the time from parents in one
degree or another, they often might do
that in a way where in a child's mind they
will internalize it so to really directly,
quickly answer your question, Mason,
it usually comes from childhood, not
because parents did it poorly, but because
that's the way a child's brain works.
They believe that things that go wrong in
the world are actually because of them.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Children's brains
are very me-centric, meaning,
like, if something bad happens in
the world, I somehow caused it.
Hmm.
Or if something h- bad
happens to me, it's my fault.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Right?
So they have this sort
of magical thinking-
Speaker 3: That's interesting
Speaker 2: Think about when you
were a kid, like, "Oh, if I just
think this certain way, I can
make something happen ," right?
Speaker 3: Mm.
Speaker 2: And We actually carry
some of that to our relationship
with God even as adults in that, "Oh,
if I behave a certain way, then I
can make God behave a certain way."
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: It just gets toned down and
less magical, but it's still there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And so unless a parent
or somebody actively, proactively
really works to not have you think
that way, most of us end up with
some degree or another carrying that.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: So the next thing
you want to do then is name why
the old version of God has to go
Why does that old version
of God have to go, Mason?
Why do you have to fire him?
Speaker 3: I'm sick of feeling
bad and all this kind of stuff,
I think that's part of it.
But it really what happened was
when I s- was dating my wife, Erica
We, we had some moments where
I was like, " why do you even
stay in a relationship with me?"
Like- Mm ⦠I'm this addict
that's looking at porn.
I'm acting out.
"We can just break up."
Like- Mm-hmm ⦠"You can leave."
I was always trying to give her
a way out, and she was like,
"Mace, I don't want to leave you.
Like, I wanna stay here."
Yeah.
And I don't think I've really had
anyone that was, like, willing
to battle for my heart like that-
And I think that gave me
a little hope for God.
James: So if I were to give you some
homework around this aspect then, I
would look at, okay, what is the impact
of having this old version of God?
So in that homework, I'm gonna have
you look at how does my current belief
of, in the old God- Mm-hmm ⦠how does
this affect my relationship with God?
It's constant.
And I want you to write it down, right?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: How does it
affect my nervous system?
I'm gonna write that down.
Fear, shame, hiding.
Right?
Speaker 4: I've noticed pretty much
with anybody who has an addiction, I
shouldn't put everybody in a box, but
it's like that transactional piece
with God is pretty across the board.
Mm.
I don't know if I've ever talked to
somebody who believes in God that
has an addiction or these compulsive
behaviors and doesn't have this belief
of a transactional relationship,
and that's definitely what I had.
If I was doing good, God was happy.
If I was doing bad, he didn't care.
He was gone.
Mm.
He was a statue.
He was this emotionless being.
And so- I had to forgive myself.
I had to acknowledge that what
I was doing was okay in the
sense that I still had worth.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 4: That I still
was worthy of love,
and I kinda had to have this long
conversation where it's like, if he's
in my life, what does that look like?
I just had to say like, "No.
That's not, that's not who I want."
And so then I had to go find him,
, Speaker 2: so this is where I'm going.
The next thing to do after, like,
after I recognize the impact, then
what I'm gonna have to do is go
out there and test the belief.
Speaker 3: So what you're saying is,
like, this new God that you have, like,
almost as, like, pass it through a filter.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
You can use scripture or look at
the life and character of Christ.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Speaker 2: Or if you can just even look
at your logical ins- inconsistencies, from
there, then you can start to introduce,
what were these old God beliefs.
Doing for me, and what were
they not doing for me ? Mm-hmm.
And how can I now find and-
Mm ⦠replace it with truth?
if we're talking about firing, you have to
spend enough time paying attention to him-
Speaker: Mm
Speaker 2: to dismantle him.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: Like, you can't just go
in and jump into finding the new god
without dismantling the old one first.
It's fun to jump forward to the fill in
the new part- Yeah ⦠but we have to
actually work through dismantling, and
that dismantling is uncomfortable- Mm
because guess what I have to do?
I have to check myself.
Have
Speaker 3: to be in pain.
Speaker 2: Sure, you have to be in pain.
I have to admit that I'm being illogical.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have to admit that,
I'm believing crap, about myself,
and I'm pretending that it's
God that believes that about me.
I'm actually projecting onto God,
now I have to be accountable part of
that is, like, how did this belief system
protect me ? What did this do for me
? Speaker 3: Hmm
⦠Speaker 2: what parts
of me was it protecting?
If we kinda go, , from a
therapy standpoint, like-
Speaker 3: Pleasant compassion
Speaker 2: right.
Speaker 3: Oh, interesting.
Speaker 2: Was there, was
there a part of me that learned
that authority meant danger?
Speaker 3: Hmm.
, Speaker 2: That was
something I had to realize.
No wonder I was afraid of God.
This God part was used in my
family to keep me in line.
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Some spiritual
manipulation happened.
So I had to look at, what did this
cause and, and how did it show up,
Speaker 3: so that goes back to the
first part you were talking about
where it's like, "Okay, where is this?"
Speaker 2: Yeah.
" Speaker 3: Where did I learn this?"
Speaker 2: This is one I still
struggle with to this day, is
essentially stay small, be quiet.
It'll keep you out of trouble.
It'll keep you from getting rejected.
growing Up With abuse and fear, that part
is, like, that's still part of my work.
And so that wa- that part of me that wants
to stay small still shows up in my life.
Speaker 4: Hmm.
Speaker 2: Then I have to make up who
God is in order for me to stay small.
Hmm.
'Cause God's not gonna call
me to do something special.
I should stay small.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: God's not gonna
ask me to have faith.
I should stay small.
Of course, God's disappointed in me.
I'm small.
See?
Now I have to be really
accountable to myself.
One of those final stages in that process
is actually grieving the loss of your
old God, that you, you're like, "Oh, I
wanna get f- I wanna fire him so bad.
He sucks."
"No, you love him."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It has served you.
So there's a part of grieving
that harmful God image.
Our brains crave what's
familiar more than what is safe.
Yeah.
Or they will interpret
familiarity for safety.
So guess what?
Believing in a new God will feel scary.
The old God feels safe-
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely
Speaker 2: because it's familiar, not
because it's actually safe there's a
mourning that needs to happen because
guess what I'm gonna have to do?
I'm gonna have to let go Of
some, control that that gave me,
of certainty that that gave me.
, Getting to feel that betrayal,
Speaker 3: yeah.
Speaker 2: And grieving essentially,
the fact that I built my life around
something that wasn't even true.
That is grief-worthy.
That's worth-
Speaker 3: Hmm
⦠Speaker 2: grieving and mourning-
this is something that people have
asked me about time and again, as
I've talked about it at boot camp,
as I've talked about it with clients,
as I've talked about it on this show
.
We can put these steps in the
show notes so first you wanna just
essentially explicitly name the old God.
God is distant . God doesn't care.
God is angry at me.
You know, those kinds of things.
Then identify The impact that having
this God in my life has on me . How does
this affect my relationship with God?
How does it affect my nervous system?
How does it affect my behaviors?
That will help you understand
the impact it's having.
Then basically reality test your
belief system about this false
version of God . Go and reality test
the legitimacy of your thinking.
Speaker: Mm.
Speaker 2: And for me, it was most
helpful to do with people who had great
relationships with God and scripture.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker 2: And so I had to essentially
be like, "If God is love , how does
my chronic shame Align with that.
It Doesn't quite work, does
Jesus move toward broken people
or away from them ? Well, go and
find that one in the scriptures.
Okay?
And now use that to
challenge your belief system.
Right.
Is fear God's primary
method to create change?
Sure isn't if you go and
look at it in the scriptures.
Okay?
So you're just exposing
the distortion to yourself.
And then you can kinda look at like,
and what parts of me did this old
God, where did it originate from?
How am I projecting my
parts onto God, you know?
Hmm.
So that can be some parts work,
and then grieving the loss.
Grieve the loss of the old God,
grieve the loss of, the years of
believing in that false version of God.
. I, I was angry first, and then I
grieved . That was my process with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
, Speaker 2: And then you can make a ritual
out of it and actively fire the old God
. For example, write him
a termination letter.
"Dear false version of
God , you are officially fired."
Dear
Sam: God, you are fired.
Speaker 2: When it was really strong,
I would have to speak out loud
and say, "You are not who God is.
You don't get to speak for him anymore."
Speaker: Hmm.
Speaker 2: And then, this one I
love, you can write some of, some of
this stuff down about who he is or
what he's like, that false version
of God, and literally burn it.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: Like, lit- fire it, right?
Yeah.
Fire it up.
But what that does neurologically,
that makes that sticky.
It sticks better-
Speaker 3: Hmm
⦠Speaker 2: when you have a ritual
so now we move into replacing God,
'cause again, nature hates a vacuum.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
And so does the psyche . So we need to
build the truer picture of God and so
this is where, you know, I kind of talked
about in the episode of like, okay, I'm
going to try to believe one thing is
true, that God loves me no matter what.
To fill in what was good
and remove what was bad
. Speaker 3: This is how
Jason explained it to me.
, God loves me no matter what.
Yeah.
That's the filter now- Yeah ⦠where it's
like, okay, if it's, if it doesn't fall
in line with that, it's, it's over here.
That's old God.
Yep.
If it falls in line with
that, that's new God.
Yeah.
That's what I'm hiring.
Yeah.
That's what I can keep.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Yeah, that's exactly it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: And that, that helped me.
That exact thing helped me
start to do in that filler.
I tried to start there, This is
how I knew I needed to back up
because I recognized that was
really hard to do at the beginning.
And so, building that truer picture
of God, and you can start, even though
you're not there yet, with what would
a God who's that good actually be like?
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: How would that feel
to be in His presence ? Mm-hmm.
What would change in my life
if I trusted that version?
What would change today even?
Speaker 3: Hmm.
Speaker 2: "Ah, crap.
That would make, uhâ¦
means I have to change something,
'cause I would feel this."
Yeah.
"And I don't wanna feel that.
My shame is still serving me too well.
So that's self-confronting in a way.
You Can always anchor that in
personal experiences awesome moments,,
scripture, relationships that you trust,
And then this is where
the rubber meets the road.
So s- next step.
You writing these down, Josh?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Next step-
Speaker: Josh is writing
this down off camera.
Speaker 2: This is where you
have to practice relational
exposure . This is where it moves
from insight to transformation.
So now, this, and you're doing this-
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm
Speaker 2: you're starting to pray
honestly rather than performatively.
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what your
goal was from the last episode we
just talked about , admit failure
without bracing for punishment
Speaker 3: yeah.
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: And I talked about this
in 193, essentially sit in silence
without having to earn His presence
. Speaker 3: Mm.
That's a big one.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: That's a big one for me.
Mm.
Speaker 2: And that's what I talked
about in the last episode of, like,
I actually didn't read my scriptures
and pray for a while just to see,
essentially in that silence, what it
would be like not earning His presence
. Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: To see if that was
real, if that could happen,
Speaker 3: that's totally where
I'm at, 'cause when people say
he's like, "It's just there.
He's just there.
You don't have- Yeah ⦠to do anything,"
I'm like, "What does that even mean?"
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: How?
Speaker 2: And so obviously along
the way you wanna essentially watch
for, relapsing into the old God.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: All that does is it
just helps reveal places that
you can do further healing.
Once you kind of have moved to a closer
place with God, those relapses are really,
actually you can welcome them of like,
"Oh God, I need healing here, and because
I've now felt you transformatively,
I'm now going to feel, invite you
there, 'cause I have, I have started to
establish a safe relationship with you."
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker: Well, that's where I get
stuck because I, I found a new
God and I relapsed to the old one
I was like, "What happened ?" Mm.
Like, "Do I need to do more work?"
It's like, well, kind of.
So who's the old god
that's coming back up?
And then I, I, I s- uh, guess
follow this process again.
I'm gonna sit down and I'm gonna
write this all out- Yeah ⦠'cause
I haven't been able to figure
it out for, like, a while now.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: It's Worth taking
the homework and just doing.
Spending time writing in a journal,
talking about with friends.
My wife, like, I
exasperated her to no end.
I was like, "Hey, can we
talk about God again?"
She's like, "Oh, boy.
Here we go."
'Cause , she was fortunate enough
to have this great relationship,
and I'm like, "Oh, help me,
help me understand this again."
I asked her the same
questions, like, so many times.
"So God doesn't hate me?"
And she's like- ⦠"No.
He made you."
, To kind of wrap this up, the whole
goal of this, remember, we're not
just trying to find a nicer god
we're trying to see God clearly
for who he is and who was already
there, but was misrepresented,
seeing clearly is the goal.
Speaker 3: Mm.
Speaker 2: And seeing truth,
This is beautiful work.
It was one of my favorite parts of
my earlier recovery journey, and it
has been a favorite thing that I have
continued to engage in, in certain ways.
My healing journey has been a cycle of
new truth, grief, mourning, you know.
Now I can mourn for my ignorance,
which caused me to essentially not
be able to engage in God or with my
fellow men in ways that I sure wish
I would've known before I was 50,
Speaker 3: "Man's purpose in
life is to learn the nature
and the kind of being God is."
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 3: You shared that
with me- Yeah ⦠last episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 2: If, if you spent
your whole life doing that-
Speaker 3: Yeah
⦠Speaker 2: that would
be a wonderful endeavor
Speaker 4: john Eldredge.
He's got this app called
A Minute to Pause.
On there he's got this whole
segment called 20 Days to Experience
Christ, or Experience Jesus.
It's 20 days of meditation.
And like when I was at, like my lowest
point, when I finally was ready to like
start handing things over to God, or at
least felt like I could trust him enough
to start handing things over to him with
my addiction, I started doing that, and
that just had just huge impacts on me.
If you're trying to find God again,
if you're trying to fire this old God
and start to find him and see him,
like it's a great place to start-
Speaker: Thanks for shouting
out that resource, Austin.
I, I didn't know about that, actually, so.
Speaker 4: It's big.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Thoughts from you, Sam?
, Speaker: I need to refire the old God.
I, like, rehired him.
Speaker 2: So you're, you
kind of like noticed a relapse
stage of like, "Whoops, I
Speaker: rehired him."
Sam: Well, I just appreciate that
you put, you put language to that.
I- Yeah ⦠I kind of felt
frustrated because I was like,
"Oh, I have more work to do."
Like something else, there's something
Speaker: else I don't
understand about God.
And there might be, but really, like-
Speaker 2: Sure
Speaker: it just hit my
soul as we've been talking.
Speaker 2: Mm.
Speaker: This is the same stuff.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Yeah, usually
Speaker: is.
This is the same, it's the same stuff.
It
Speaker 2: usually
Speaker: is.
Nothing's changed.
I lay down to go to bed
at night and I'm like-
I don't know if I feel like praying,
'cause last couple times I've prayed,
haven't connected with anyone.
You know?
It's like- Yeah ⦠if we really
knew who God was, we'd run to him.
Yeah.
I've been thinking of that-
Yeah ⦠the whole time.
Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
Speaker: I'm not running to him.
Mm-hmm.
Probably 'cause I forgot who he was.
Speaker 2: Hmm.
Yeah.
Speaker: That's what
I'm feeling right now.
Guys, we wanna know what you think,
and, in particular, I'd love to know,
if you do this process, I wanna know
how that changed your view of God.
If you'll just shoot us an email, Sam,
James, Mason, and I'm gonna make an alias
for you, Austin, unashamedunafraid.com.
I'll forward you any emails
that go to that alias.
Who's your old God, and who
do you want the new god to be?
Send us an email.
We wanna hear about it.
Thank you so much for listening
to Unashamed Unafraid.
You can find us on social
media @unashamedunafraid.
Get access to the bonus content and become
an outsider on unashamedunafraid.com.
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Thanks again for watching, and until
next time, continue to live unashamed.