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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Senator, Grinder, and Bam Bam.
And our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some wine, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 129th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to meet us here once a week. We're going to smoke a Cupid cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We discuss the newly launched Tabanos aged cigar program. We introduce our new podcast sponsor. And Senator takes some heat from a listener email, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar and enjoy, as we pair Jason by Pallmeyer Cabernet Sauvignon with the Cohiba Siglo 5.
Alonsdale tonight from Cuba on the pod, [00:01:00] it's the Cohiba Siglo 5. It's a beautiful 43 ring gauge cigar by six and three quarters inches long. And boys, we are back not only to Cohiba, but our favorite, I think collective favorite, Vitola here in the room, the Dahlias, the Lonsdale from Cuba. Yes, sir. Does anything feel as good in the hand as this cigar?
**Bam Bam:** Wow.
**Gizmo:** Couple
**Bam Bam:** things.
**Gizmo:** Bam coming in hot. But I digress. You read my mind, Ben. A Churchill. Correct. You know. 109. Alright boys, let's cut this thing. See we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper.
**Rooster:** Oh shit, I cut too much.
**Gizmo:** Uh oh.
**Senator:** Bam, can we see your cigar? Yeah, I know. It's got a flat top.
**Bam Bam:** Are you showing us the foot or the head of the cigar? I can't tell. I do admit, I did take a look. I don't know what's wrong with me these days. Here's what I love. I love
**Gizmo:** as soon as we cut. Before Senator even looks at his own cigar, he looks at [00:02:00] you to see what you did on your cigar because of what you did at PCA.
**Rooster:** It's a lot. It's a lot. Bamboo from a six and three quarters to five and a quarter.
**Bam Bam:** I It's a 3 32nd of an inch removal. Okay.
**Gizmo:** If you say so.
**Bam Bam:** I know. So
**Gizmo:** is there any curvature on the top? There is no curvature.
**Bam Bam:** I took a little too much off. I admit that
**Gizmo:** you're going on a pip.
**Senator:** I've been doing that recently. I don't know.
**Gizmo:** Just
**Senator:** smoke it from the other end and see how it goes. There's no difference. You won't be able to tell.
That's
**Gizmo:** not nice. Unbelievable. All right, boys, let's light this thing. The Cohiba Siglo 5. Again, it's a Dahlias from Cuba. Lonsdale, 43 ring gauge cigar by six and three quarters inches long. This is now the fifth Cohiba we've done on the podcast.
This has become a recent favorite of everyone on the pod. I think over the, what, last six to Rynder, this is your first tonight, correct? First time.
**Bam Bam:** Wow, it's a delicious cigar. Popping my cherry. Oh man, so [00:03:00] satisfying off the light. From the point of view of flavor, it's like, it's full on flavor. Amazing. A little sweet, some fruit notes.
A little bit of earth and a little creaminess too. Yeah. Oh, definitely.
**Gizmo:** It's definitely got that Kojima honey grass thing. Well, hey, you know, hey,
**Bam Bam:** well, I'm going a little barnyard for me. It's got a little musty funky thing, which I love on the initial light of most cigars.
**Senator:** The other thing I like with this for a Lonsdale, as much as I love Lonsdales, I don't associate the Vitola with like tremendous combustion, but this cigar, I feel like has a lot of smoke output, a lot of combustion, which is nice.
Yeah. And the
**Bam Bam:** aroma off the foot, delicious. Aroma is really good. Retrohale's good. I mean, the aroma off the foot, it's all floral for me. Incredible.
**Gizmo:** If you take it in. It's there. It's really nice on the foot. Oh, that's amazing. And this is just one of those cigars, [00:04:00] and I know I've been talking about this cigar quite a bit on the podcast as we talk about the Retrohale and we talk about other aspects of, of Cuban tobacco that we've been enjoying.
And this is one of those that has just been checking every box for me. You know, the Retrohale, the, the smell on the foot, the draw, even at its youth. I mean, this is a young cigar we're smoking tonight. This is a mid 2023 Transcribed by https: otter. ai Uh, Siglo 5 out of Liguito. So, it's like, I think that's my impetus to bring this into the, to the room tonight is, for how young this cigar is and how good it's been smoking, it's like encouraging that we're, hopefully, going to be able to recommend someone go out and buy what is an expensive box of cigars that, And smoke them young.
It's, I
**Bam Bam:** think it's already gotten better since we started smoking these when we were first received them. I think they're getting better and better.
**Gizmo:** What are these going for now? They're around 64 a stick, but so for a box [00:05:00] of 25, you're probably looking at about 1600 bucks. That's that's the current price.
Yeah. Current market. Yeah. Which is tough, you know, again, buying a fresh cigar. That's unbelievable. At that kind of price is just crazy.
**Rooster:** These used to be in the mid twenties. Just four years ago. Like five, four, yeah, four, five, six, five years ago, maybe. Maybe,
**Gizmo:** yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, it's unfortunate where the prices have gone here.
Yep. So what's everybody getting on the light? Grindr, your first Sigla 5 tonight, what are you thinking?
**Grinder:** The floral notes are definitely there. Yeah, I love the aroma. It reminds me. It's like it's kind of a weird nostalgic I get a very nostalgic feeling smoking this off the off the bat because it reminds me of what a cigar should Smell like from an aromatic perspective and as far as taste definitely the the honey I'm getting a little bit of the twang like my my look my lips are a little puckered from salt.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah [00:06:00]
**Grinder:** on the retrohale Very smooth. I do, I do taste a, just a tinge of youth,
**Gizmo:** just a bit, but nothing that Would you say the youth, how would you describe that youth? Is it like ammonia? Is it bitter? What is it for you? It's not,
**Grinder:** it's not ammonia. It's just a slight tang. You know, it's like, maybe that's bitterness for, yeah, maybe that's what it would be.
Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** I'm not getting any of
**Gizmo:** that. I'm not getting, that's what I've been loving about the cigar. Yeah. And what, you know, now that you said that, I'm actually going to actively try to get it and look for it. But what I love about this is for how young it is. It's, it does not smoke young for me and hasn't, even as we get down to the last third, I'll see, obviously under the microscope tonight, we'll see if any, anything changes, but you know, it's been a very strong performer for me.
You know, and I think for a bunch of us.
**Senator:** Yeah, I agree. The thing for me, obviously I've been tough on Cohiba and I've come around on some, but Still, most young Cohiba for me is not very enjoyable. I, to me, it just [00:07:00] needs a lot of age. So like a young Cohiba Robusto, I actively dislike. With age, they're great.
Um, even a Cohiba Lancero, young. I think the last third really is where it's abundantly clear that it's got youth and rough edges and needs time. But this cigar, the last third, even when I've typically smoked this, has actually been really enjoyable. So, I just think young, this is probably one of the best options you have in the Cohiba portfolio.
**Gizmo:** And it's important to note, you know, a few of the cigars you mentioned, namely the Lancero, you know, come at even an even higher price point. You know, so you're pulling a cigar out, you're spending maybe 80, 90, 100 dollars depending on where it is. I think Siglo, Siglo 6s are close to 100. Pyramides Extra are certainly over that now.
So, you know, you're looking at spending a serious amount of money to then have something that's a year, two, three years old, and the last third is, like you're saying about some of those Lanceros, it's like, unsmokable. You know, which, okay. It's like you're throwing a 20 or 50 bill in the [00:08:00] garbage. Yeah,
**Rooster:** it is.
It is a real treat when you're smoking a Cuevas cigar. I mean, you know, you have the price point. If it's kind of feels like a luxury product, it
**Bam Bam:** feels that way now because of the way this cigar is performing right now. You know, it has to continue for it to be, I think, to fulfill that
**Senator:** experience. I agree with Ben because again, like having had young Cohiba Robustos and even Siglo six years ago before I knew you guys, like, I just had bad experiences with young Cohiba that it felt the opposite of a luxury experience.
Like, that's why my like hatred for the Cohiba brand was so strong. Coming into when I met all you guys and just wanting nothing to do with it. But I, I've been happy to see, um, and I do give Gizmo credit for diving down the rabbit hole far more than I was willing to given my early bat experience. That like there are some Vitolas that actually do present well young, like the Pyramides Extra we reviewed.
I mean, that was excellent young. Oh, yeah. I love that cigar. Oh, yeah. [00:09:00]
**Bam Bam:** The smoke I put on that. But not all of them.
**Senator:** Like I would challenge anyone to show me a young CoRo that they love. Yeah. The CoRo is awful when it's not young. I'll throw another
**Gizmo:** one in the list. Esplendido, the Churchill from that, that needs time.
Yeah. They need age. That needs time. Yeah.
**Senator:** And again, like just to clarify, like my critique is. There are plenty of other cigars that we would say need age, but they're not 80 a stick. That's exactly right. So it's like, if I'm going to pay extra, if I'm going to pay 80 instead of 30 for a cigar, I shouldn't have to wait for three, four years until I can enjoy that cigar.
That's what paying the premium should get me. Yeah. And that's my frustration with some of Cohiba. But Cohiba,
**Rooster:** Cohiba cigars have always been on the upper echelon of, of the price. Of course. Yes. But not like now. I mean, a CoRo you could get for
**Senator:** 30 years ago. Yeah. Yeah.
**Rooster:** Yeah, but when other cigars were like a Rass was like 10, It was 15.
Koiboro Boosters were like 15. They're globally renowned,
**Senator:** right? As the, as the, as the top. Sure, of course. But now they were double the price. You could [00:10:00] get like a D4 for 15 and a Koro for 30. And my problem now is you can get a D4 for 20 and a Koro is what, 100? A coat. No, it
**Gizmo:** was around
**Senator:** 80, 80. Yeah. Right. But that's a bargain.
Yeah. It's like just four times what you're paying. I mean, that's insanity.
**Rooster:** What the, you know, the, uh, I do, I do,
**Bam Bam:** I'm sorry, but I do love that Coro, even with us two years of age, it's really quite, it's quite nice. And it's nice to It's completely different than a D four D four course. Course. It's a different experience.
Of course. Yeah. It's really something,
**Rooster:** right. I think I'm thinking about, but it needs age. I think Lido and La Corona and all of these factories, a lot of the fresh stuff is really being rolled well. So there's less consistency issues. Issues and uh, you know, draw issues and I mean, all the stuff, it's, it's getting worked out.
Yeah. So I think we're getting, um, you know, I mean, we have smoked a lot of. A lot of fresh stuff that has really smoked well.
**Bam Bam:** Unfortunately, it's coming at the highest price point [00:11:00] possible, or in its history, right? Look, everything's
**Senator:** been worked out at the factories. Let's buy more 80 Coros. The price is just silly.
It is. It's just silly. How many cigars do you have in your humidor? They're 80 bucks a stick, like there's, those are special cigars that you know you have. Most of them have significant H. Right.
**Gizmo:** I mean, if I think about cigars that are really over, 50 outside of any Koheba I have in my, in my Hume. It's like, aged, all the contiki.
Yeah, well, I got rid of those. You know, it's aged stuff. It's, I have a box of Mantua, the punch Mantua's I'm probably gonna move. Um, it's aged Esplendidos, it's aged Koro, it's Sir Winston's heavily aged, Partagus 898 heavily aged. And, and most of the rest of it. I wouldn't even, I don't know if I would want to smoke if it was valued at that kind of price point.
I mean, you look at even those Vegas Rebellion Classicos, another Dahlias that we love so very much. Probably one of the best Lonsdales arguably ever made in [00:12:00] Cuba. And the most revered cigar
**Bam Bam:** in
**Gizmo:** this group. And we, yeah, it's our number one cigar probably out of Cuba ever. And that's a cigar that I don't even think would command that kind of price point today.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** You know, like what is my point? It's crazy. It's crazy. And to think that you're have to spend that kind of money to drop over 2, 000 on a box of Koro today, fresh to then sit on them for five years. That's not fair. That's outrageous. That's outrageous. It's outrageous. What's not outrageous is how good this is.
This is off the
**Bam Bam:** charts right now.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, this is very very good
**Bam Bam:** look for me I think whenever I get that combination of savory and sweet fruit and earth, which I'm getting here in a beautiful Smooth delivery. That is the ultimate Complex elegant cigar experience for me. That's what that's the definitive experience that I'm always looking for those combination of things You know,
**Gizmo:** I love after the light, I mean, we're what, a quarter inch in here, third of an inch.
I love how this cigar [00:13:00] just settles in. It's one of those cigars that, you know, you light it, obviously there's a lot of heat on it, a lot of combustion, you get it going. And then after, you know, what, 10 minutes, it just kind of settles in and it kind of puts you in the car and it's like, just takes you on a nice little journey, you know, through the countryside.
It's, it's a very smooth, elegant affair. And I don't know, I've completely fallen in love with, with these cigars. I think we all have. I
**Senator:** agree. I think this cigar is just really well balanced. Like all the flavor notes that we're talking about, none, not one of them is overly dominant that like really takes over the rest.
They're all just kind of in perfect harmony. Yeah. They're in cadence with each other. And I think like, you know, Giz talks about it's an elegant smoke. I think it's like a firmly medium cigar. I don't think at any point really it gets full, but it's not mild. It's like just the right amount of body to it.
It's
**Bam Bam:** medium, but it's very flavorful. Oh, for sure. And that's, that's what makes it unique. And it, because of the medium body, you get to experience that smooth delivery. [00:14:00]
**Rooster:** I mean, it is very balanced. Oh yeah. And whoever blended this, Did a phenomenal job. He's a
**Gizmo:** virtuoso.
**Rooster:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So these cigars were released in 1994.
The Siglo series was actually launched in 1994. It comes in a display box. These come in a display box of 15 aluminum tubos. In five cardboard packs. Those came out in 2008 and the varnish slide, lid box, the classic presentation of the Sigla series of 25 cigars. That's obviously launched in 1994. There was at one point a display box of 25 cigars in five cardboard packs of five, which were discontinued in 2017.
So, like I mentioned, this is the fifth cigar we're doing on the podcast. We have gone through Cohiba's history. The brand, the mark, uh, the name, the counterfeiting, we have done so much content on Cohiba. So anyone who's new to the podcast, I encourage you to jump back to some of those other episodes we've done as we [00:15:00] touch on, on those other areas of the Cohiba story.
Let's quickly go through some of the other cigars that are currently in production just so folks have them Obviously the Lanceros the first cigar they ever made the Liguito number one made in 1964 the Coronas Especiales, which is the Liguito number two in line, I believe with the Monique Cristo Especiales No.
2, that same size, Panatella, that was in 1967. The Panatellus was also in 1967, and then everything kind of halted as far as, uh, new releases for Cohiba until 1989. And that's when the Esplendidos, the Exquisitos, and the Robustos were released. In 1994, They were celebrating 500 years. Obviously Habanos is a couple of years late.
So let's just say it's 1992 when they launched it and they finally came out in 94 celebrating 500 years since Christopher Columbus landed in Cuba and I guess took tobacco to the rest of the world. And the Siglo series was launched with Siglos [00:16:00] one through five, uh, of various sizes, Siglo one is a petite Corona, Siglo two we've done on the podcast.
We'll talk about that a little later is a petite Corona Siglo three is a long Corona. 42 by six and an eighth. I do like that cigar, but it is plagued by draw issues for me. Siglo 4 classic Corona score to size on this podcast. We love that size. Haven't done that one yet. That's a Grand Corona 46 by five and five eighths inches.
Commonly shared size with the H up in Magnum 46. Tonight we're smoking the Siglo 5. We've talked about that. And finally for the line was, uh, is the Sigla six, which was not released until 2002. So that came out eight years after the original release. That's a Kananazo 52 by five and seven eighths inches.
Now, if you think about Cohiba as a brand and what people really reach for, I think my understanding prior to really diving into the hobby is with other Cuban cigar smokers outside of our group, I [00:17:00] would have thought it was Koro. So Esplendido. And then obviously in the 2010s, be he K what I've learned really is that the connoisseurs really chase Siglo five and Siglo six Siglo six is probably the most sought after cigar right now.
And I just think that that's also in line with. The size of the cigar, I mean, that's a big one, 52 by five and seven eighths inches. So, you know, it's a Robusto actually. You
**Rooster:** know, it's, it's interesting that you mentioned the first Cohiba cigar was a Lancero. So in the sixties and seventies, the skinny cigars were very popular, which is a complete opposite now.
I mean, Cohiba is going like bold now into 55, 56 ring gauges, even, even, even more than that, even more. I mean, that would never happen. You know, back then it used to be all, uh, Panatelas and Lanceros and, uh, Lonsdales. I mean, it's, it's a very elegant size.[00:18:00]
**Gizmo:** So also, there's the Maduro line from Kohiba. They're one of the only two markers that have a Maduro line, Partagus being the other. The Genius, the Magikos, and the Secretos, released in 2007. And then of course, boys, the Behike line. Behike 52, Behike 54, Behike 56. We did the Behike 54. We spoke that with Danilo on that episode from earlier this year when we were in Cuba.
That was an amazing experience. And then finally in regular production, the Pyramides Extra was released in 2012. That is part of the classic line. So put that alongside the Robusto, the Lancero, the, um, the Esplendido, excuse me, the Churchill, the Esplendido. There's also a Medio Siglo, which is a petite Robusto, 52 by 4 inches.
And then you get into the special stuff, like the Novadosos, the Ombar, and, uh, some of the limited. Addition, uh, cigars, the Addicion [00:19:00] Limitatis that come out every few years. So the stuff in Rooster's Tower. Yeah. Any 50 caps?
**Bam Bam:** How many of those do you have? You know, as you were going through your details there, I'm just waving this cigar under my chin, letting the smoke come up in front of me and it's like perfume.
It's insane. There aren't many cigars that you can do that with and be comfortable in doing that. It's really special. It's true. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** This is one of those cigars that we'd smoke, you know, for the listener when we go to Cuba. You know, we sit outside in the morning and we all sit around and we have breakfast and we kind of recap the day before and what we accomplished or didn't.
And we always light a great cigar, you know, often a Cohiba or, or whatever we have available. I think a lot of us have been lighting Lanceros or Ciglo fives, whatever we have on hand, a
**Bam Bam:** pyramid, extra
**Gizmo:** pyramid, extra. And. There's something about when you walk away from where everyone's smoking, [00:20:00] you know, to go to your room quick or run to the bathroom or get a, get a water and you come back in that room and just the quality of the aroma of that smoke is intoxicating.
It's unbeatable. Like to the point where. I really want to introduce smoking these kinds of cigars in my living room at home because it's such a good smell. Well, someone else here
**Bam Bam:** does that.
**Gizmo:** Rooster is nodding. You know, it's funny you
**Rooster:** mentioned that. My wife has been away. And you've been the king
**Bam Bam:** of your castle ever since
**Rooster:** you left.
So, so, I mean, I, I, she, she left me. You smoke way too many cigars in the living room. I'm leaving you. So now I'm like, you know, Moving away from the fireplace, blowing it instead of blowing it in the fireplace. I'm like, you're, you're,
**Bam Bam:** you're spreading perfume around your house. Now
**Senator:** you and the cat can smoke it.
**Bam Bam:** And your sheets will smell like a cigar. It's basic.
**Senator:** Your bedsheets, you'll smoke in your bedroom, living [00:21:00] room, you're moving around your house. Bam, Bam keeps a mattress in the center of his. He needs to be ready to go at any time.
**Gizmo:** So,
**Senator:** you know
**Gizmo:** what I'm saying though, seriously about the intoxicating, and it really is only really, really high end premium tobacco cigars.
You know, I mean, even some of the Nicaraguan and Dominican cigars, it's like when we smoke these in that morning setting, there's just something about it that is just unbeatable.
**Bam Bam:** The only way I can replicate that in my house is when I open my tower and I stand in front of it and that beautiful wafting of, of aroma comes out.
That's quite nice too.
**Gizmo:** So, like I said, there've been plenty of wild releases, crazy expensive releases, limited things that have come from Cohiba too many to name on, on tonight's episode. But if you are interested, check out Cuban cigar website. com and go through everything that's ever been released. All of the details on bands and products and everything else.
Uh, and you can check out what they're doing. So, [00:22:00] so boys, I think this is just an excellent, excellent cigar. Here's
**Bam Bam:** a question. So I'm finding the finish on this is not long, but it's a medium finish and it's a beautiful, nice, dry finish for me. Um, it's interesting. It's a little different from other cigars that I've
**Gizmo:** had.
When you say it's not long, are you saying that it's just kind of dissipates quickly?
**Bam Bam:** It dissipates somewhat quickly, but not, it's not a quick finish and it's not a long finish. It just stays, it's kind of like a medium. I can't, I'm hard to time that, right? But it's a lot like what we're kind of drinking tonight, honestly.
Let's talk about our pairing tonight. For me, that, that finish is reminiscent of the cigar a bit. So
**Gizmo:** we've decided to pair tonight's cigar with a Cabernet from California. Senator, you know more about this than I do. I'm not going to try. Well, you, you sourced the bottle. It doesn't mean I looked at it.
**Senator:** It's fair.
It's, uh, uh, Paul Meyer, Jason, uh, there's a interesting story. I mean, I, I didn't know much about this vineyard, so I had to do a little bit of homework, but the guy who started this was actually [00:23:00] an attorney who was really passionate about wine. And as he got into the wine business and clearly figured out what he was doing, um, he quit his career basically as a lawyer and just started doing this full time.
And so he, this guy, Jason, uh, uh, Paul Meyer crafted his first wine in 1986. And his aim, he loved French Bordeaux. So it's funny when Bam talks about like a dry finish on the cigar and it complimenting the wine, the wine has a drier finish. And this guy, uh, his goal. I mean, this is a crazy aim to have, but his lofty goal was to basically Create California's version of a Chateau, uh, Mouton Rothschild, which is one of like the most legendary Bordeaux vineyards that exists.
I've had that.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, Bam and I were talking about that the other night. Remember when you and I had that the other night? We cracked it open, dude. Yeah, we cracked it.
**Senator:** Too bad
**Gizmo:** Senator's not here. Correct.
**Senator:** I mean, a [00:24:00] bottle of that stuff goes like between a thousand and 10, 000 a bottle. I'm talking about Bam Bam bottles.
A mere
**Bam Bam:** bag of shells.
**Rooster:** You guys had the 57, didn't you? That's right. Of course. Oh, I've had
**Senator:** the 47. It's much more. Of course. Of course. I'm only kidding. But, um, I mean a very lofty goal, like I said, that's like one of the most legendary vineyards in history. And this guy wanted to create California's version of that.
And so very cleverly, the guy, um, was working with viticulture professors at the University of Bordeaux over the course of three years. He obtained vine cuttings of the most ideal Bordeaux varieties that would produce the greatest intensity of flavor and he smuggled them into Napa and planted them in 1981.
Wow. Wow. This is pretty crazy. I mean, this guy was so passionate about this. That's like pretty
**Gizmo:** illegal, right? To do that? Probably. Like to import stuff like that? Or,
**Senator:** I guess,
**Gizmo:** I guess not. I mean, no. Well, I mean, dude, if you bring in oranges from another country, [00:25:00] like you're interrogated, there's a beagle, there's a beagle sniffing you out.
Like you have a problem.
**Senator:** That's true. And the article used the word smuggled. So it implies something was not kosher about what, what happened there. Um, and so then several years later, Um, he had his debut vintage, they called it the, uh, Polymire Proprietary Red. So it was a red blend, um, very much Bordeaux style, the five Bordeaux grapes.
And in 1993, he recruited Helen Turley to make his award winning wines. And Turley's also famous in the wine business down in California. And so over time, uh, they have a Pinot Noir. Apparently he's obsessed with French Burgundy, big Pinot guy. Um, so at some point we should try the Pinot that he makes, but this, uh, this cab and I think they have some other form of red blend are very much meant to be in kind of the Bordeaux style.
And, um, I think, you know, from a few early sips, he's, he's definitely achieved that. I mean, For me, you know, we've done, we've done some red blends, some California red blends, like even that Robert Craig at a [00:26:00] more accessible price point that are meant to be California Bordeaux style blends. And, um, I typically love those because some Bordeaux's can be too dry for me.
Some California wines are way too sweet or way too jammy. And I feel like California trying to mimic what Bordeaux does kind of finds that happy medium where it's like just got a little bit of sweetness, but the, the fruit profile is like very balanced. And I think this is probably a good example of that.
Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** There's a touch of, of a fruit note that I love it, but it's not overpowering that dry finish though. For me, it's a home run. Absolutely. The home run. Love that. Drinks. Very, Very sophisticated.
**Senator:** And this is the 2018 vintage. Um, I had this with Gizmo, uh, recently. Gizmo brought another bottle that was the 2019 vintage.
I like a lot of stuff 2019 from California. I'm actually not as high on 2018, but this is very good. What vintage is this? This is
**Bam Bam:** 18. 18. This is excellent.
**Gizmo:** The thing I like about this and again, you know, it might not be the right Pairing for the [00:27:00] cigar, but I feel like it's it's a this is a Wine for me that I want to have with like a steak dinner.
It's very very rich.
**Bam Bam:** I disagree I think this pairs beautifully, especially in the way both the expression and the cigar finish in a beautiful medium Dry dry finish quite nice for me.
**Grinder:** I think they pair great Yeah, I just took a I think if you take a drink of the wine and then immediately not immediately But like, you know take a draw Both the combination is really great.
Both have subtle fruit, both have
**Bam Bam:** a nice dry finish. It's really something else. It's
**Grinder:** smooth.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You know, it tastes classic.
**Rooster:** Maybe dip your cigar in the wine.
**Senator:** No, I, I actually, I agree with, with Bam and Grindr on this. I think the style of wine that this guy produces, it's got a very soft, supple finish for how flavorful and like structured the wine is. So. I think like, yes, this would hold up great with [00:28:00] any substantial meal, but at the same time, like the delivery is just, the finish is so smooth that you could have this just sipping, you know, sitting around a fire.
You could have this with a cigar. I think it's very versatile.
**Bam Bam:** And it's as smooth a delivery as the cigar is giving us today. I think.
**Gizmo:** I think for me, I think I would like something a little thinner on the wine because I really want the cigar to be the star of the show. Like I, maybe the Pino for me would be a better fit on this cigar than the cab is.
**Rooster:** I think a champagne would do really well with this. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with
**Gizmo:** that.
**Rooster:** I mean, the funny thing. It's got a lot of floral notes and uh, you know, champagne would be a very nice pairing, I think.
**Senator:** And the funny thing hearing you say that, the 2019 that we had, I actually think has more structure than this does.
And so like, to pair with a meal, which was the intent that night, I would take that 2019 vintage for that, but I think the extra year of age and who knows the growing conditions in [00:29:00] 2018, I think it's a smoother, softer, um, finish that actually lends itself better to have with a cigar than that 2019 one did.
How much is that bottle? So it's the retail price. I mean, a total wine by us, it's a hundred dollars. It's not cheap. Hello. Giz, I think got a very good case deal, but
**Gizmo:** I bought it. I bought this, these bottles a year ago on a blind recommendation from our friend, uh, lizard Phil here at the lounge. And. I found a great price.
It was like a case deal like a year ago, and I think I got it for like 50, 50 bucks or something like that, but it's really gone up since Senator and I were looking at it.
**Bam Bam:** I'd spend 100 on this. I'd pursue this vintage. It's really quite something else for me.
**Senator:** Yeah, I think the cheapest, if you probably bought like 6 or 12 that exist out there is maybe 75 a bottle, but still a good price for what this delivers.
Oh
**Rooster:** yeah. So you had this before you bought it or [00:30:00] just kind of, I was
**Gizmo:** looking for some like mid range price point, like a kind of, you know, jumping from 20 to that 50 ish, and this was one of the ones that came up and it landed in that price point. So I was just looking for something a little bit better to pull for a holiday or a Thanksgiving or something like that and have some stuff just cause I wanted to have it.
But. Uh, it, yeah, I hadn't had it until actually Senator and I cracked it when I was at the lounge here having dinner the other night and he and I, he and I had some food. So I was like, we got to try this. And then we really liked it. And then I happened, I ended up bringing a different bottle from the same shipment, which ended up being a year older, a year different, which is a weird thing too, because I didn't order different vintages.
So it just happened to be a chance. Well, you got a great deal that night then. It's
**Senator:** also an important lesson for any lizard that buys wine. This is such a. Annoying problem that happens all the time, where whatever site you're placing the order from, you often choose a vintage that you're buying. And you really need to check all the [00:31:00] bottles when they send them, because oftentimes for whatever reason, these shops will send either entirely the wrong vintage that you ordered, or some of the bottles will be a different one.
Now, in this case, I think we're very lucky that both vintages have actually been very good. So there's not a complaint there, but I've definitely been in a situation where I order a specific vintage. I assumed that they knew how to read numbers and get the vintage correct. Cracked the bottle open and I'm tasting it.
I'm like, why does this taste different? And I look and it's the wrong vintage. And I've had to call and they've had to do something to make it right. But you really do need to check. Oh, wow.
**Gizmo:** He just kind of subtly lectured me on what I did wrong. Yes, right. You noticed that? Yes. Okay. You just looked up. I just said they were both very good.
No, you're not wrong. I mean, I didn't even look at them. Yeah. You know, when they came in, so. Mhm. Yeah, I think this cigar, I really think the cigar for me is the star of the show. I think the wine is very good, but it's not enhancing it for me. It's, it's not enhancing the cigar for me. I think
**Bam Bam:** it's complimentary.
**Gizmo:** I like them both.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, [00:32:00] you're wrong. Some of us, some of us, you got voted off
**Gizmo:** the, I know it's okay. Look, some of us are, some of us are wine guys, some of us aren't. That's true. So boys, we have some very, very exciting news tonight. We have a new sponsor.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah.
**Gizmo:** New sponsor
**Senator:** alert. Oh yeah. I was literally going to look for exactly that sound to play.
I can't believe that you did it. It's perfect. I
**Gizmo:** literally Googled DJ rap horn
**Senator:** so I
**Gizmo:** could pull it up for the, uh, the new sponsor alert. You've been talking about it
**Grinder:** for a couple of weeks though. Yeah. Well, no, I just did
**Gizmo:** it today. I pulled it up today. That's very exciting.
**Grinder:** Very exciting.
**Gizmo:** So we are very, very happy and proud and excited to have Fabrica five, the new, Amazing cigar manufacturing facility from the folks at Friends of El Habano, Bon Roberts, our friend, Rob Isla, who we had on the podcast.
Rob, we love you. Which is crazy, by the way, a year and a half ago, he was on the podcast, if you remember. It seems like last month. It was October. That long? October 22. It's
**Senator:** crazy.
**Gizmo:** It
**Senator:** seems like last
**Gizmo:** night. It's [00:33:00] crazy. But he, uh, he founded a new cigar manufacturing Company, the, uh, with Hamlet, Parais, master blender, and legend Cuban legend.
His, you know, custom rolls outta Cuba are still passed around on the internet, still chased. He's a master blender. He was a part this for many years. He was at the Romeo Julietta, uh, factory and facility for a long time, and they are now blending their own cigars in Honduras. They're starting with the.
They've been releasing them now for a couple of years. They are releasing the mofo program on friends of El Habano, the newties program, they have cigars coming for our, for bond Roberts soon. Uh, and I'm very, very excited about this and, uh, very, very happy to have them on board as a partner. So,
**Senator:** and their timing is honestly great.
I mean, I just say that, like, I think we've all seen the articles talking about how, and funny, we've even had conversations with, um, some of the heads of a lot of these, uh, big cigar companies talking about New world cigars are [00:34:00] really starting to permeate other markets like Europe and Asia, places where all they were buying were Cuban cigars.
And so I think like what they're, you know, what they're doing at that price point, people are finally now at a point where they're getting frustrated with the Cuban price increases and saying, where can I find great value for a really good cigar? And, um, I just think like the timing couldn't be better.
I'm not sure how intentional it was, but, uh, I think it's smart.
**Gizmo:** What's interesting about this for me is, you know, I've been working, uh, kind of alongside Rob on this tasting panel through Friends of El Habano. He invited me on in February of last year, 2023. And for over a year now, I've tried every single cigar they've blended, uh, on the tasting panel.
They take intense notes while we're smoking it together and commenting on it, good and bad. They make adjustments. They iterate, they send us new versions. They're very, very serious about trying to make great cigars. And they've released a line [00:35:00] of cigars that not only am I proud to have. Contributed to those tasting notes, but I'm also proud to like partner with them because I really enjoy the cigars.
I smoke them a lot I brought some to Cuba on the last trip. I smoked them there I had one last night at home here like they are really really good Honduran cigars and the price point is unbelievable Unbelievable. We're talking 8, 10, 12, 14, 16. That's a great price. So amazing price.
**Bam Bam:** I'm on the site. How many, uh, how big is the catalog?
The
**Gizmo:** catalog is going to be very big. It looks substantial. It is. And what you see on the site, you know, it's coming and going based on what's available. You know, when Vitolas sell out, they're obviously not going to be able to find them on the site. And by the way, the website, As Bam Bam's talking about it is Fabrica005, like Fabrica005.
com, Fabrica005. com, and exclusive to Lizard listeners, you get 10 percent off your first order. Using [00:36:00] coupon code fab five. So that is going to be for the ninfas this week
**Bam Bam:** So that that's that cigar is beautiful beautiful and one. Yeah, that's a gorgeous looking cigar
**Gizmo:** The ninfas is one of the most popular cigars that they've put out people love that cigar looks and by the way This is not like a baby brand.
This is not something that's new. They've been doing this for a few years now They continue to iterate they've sold hundreds of thousands of cigars. Yeah, and what's great for American consumers You Is there shipping these out of Miami? They're not shipping them out of Australia. We'll get them pretty quickly.
You get them in a few days, real quick. And it's worldwide free shipping on all orders over 125 us after the discount. Again, use code fab five F a B five exclusive, exclusive to our listeners for 10 percent off your order of ninfas. And, you know, like I said, you, you know, you got Rob Isla, who's a legend in the cigar business.
He's had Friends of El Habano, which is kind of the, I think the premier forum for cigars in the world. Great. Anywhere you want to find [00:37:00] information, community, anything about cigars, that's the place to go. And then you have Hamlet Paredes, who, like I said, was a legend in Cuba. Came out of Cuba, worked for Rakhi Patel for quite some time.
Left Rakhi a few years ago and is now working with Rob and Fabrica 5 in Honduras blending, you know, excellent cigars.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I'm also looking at those Nudo N7s look really interesting.
**Gizmo:** So are these Puro? Honduran? No. I think there's, the different, uh, cigars have different blends of tobacco. They are rolled in Honduras, but there are some other elements in there.
And I think based on the cigar, specific cigars have different, uh, blends and, and, you know, uh, origins of tobacco in them. So you can go on the site and see that. Wow. Um, all the details you want to see.
**Bam Bam:** I'm curious. I, I, I would like to try a bunch of these. Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. They're great.
**Bam Bam:** The N1, the N7 look fantastic.
**Grinder:** How would you, um, having been on the tasting panel, how would you, I don't know, categorize Honduran tobacco versus [00:38:00] like
**Rooster:** It's very Cuban esque from what I understand.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it is. And, and the thing that I've said to Rob, and again, why I'm very passionate and proud of this partnership, because I think, I'll answer your question in a sec, but I think it's important to say that for us on the podcast here, it's very important for us to only have people on, which is why you don't see us have a lot of partners.
We want to partner with people that we're proud to represent, that our listeners, if they go out and buy this product, that they know that we stand behind and our word is behind. We are not going to just take on anybody that we meet at PCA or anybody we meet on the internet or anybody that emails us.
And we've had plenty of conversations, but this really aligns with our ethos on this podcast, which is truth, honesty, and no bullshit. And that is why I'm so excited about them coming on is I really am proud. To tell people about these cigars,
**Bam Bam:** having those alignments in business is very rare. It
**Gizmo:** is rare.
And that's to get
**Bam Bam:** this experience where you actually love the product and want to stand behind it. That's [00:39:00] quite something.
**Gizmo:** And, you know, you're talking over last summer, you know, they were, they were doing some unique blends and some, you know, they were trying some new things and we would get on the tasting panel and some of those conversations weren't fun because this, some of the cigars we were trying that were kind of trial run blends weren't working.
And then we'd get another iteration based on our feedback. It's like, wow, okay, now we're in the zone here. You know, so Rob would diligently take notes, Hamlet would be on the calls with us taking notes, and they were very receptive to the feedback. Like, there's no ego there. So what I think the product of that has been is just an excellent line of diverse, affordable, that's the biggest thing is they're affordable, great cigars.
**Bam Bam:** How
**Gizmo:** many individuals were on a tasting
**Bam Bam:** panel?
**Gizmo:** There were probably, Between six and eight of us. So
**Bam Bam:** that's a sizable group.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And Rob would select different folks from the forum that he would trust. That's great. That's great. You know, that it's not just friends. It's not just people. And it's
**Bam Bam:** not just one or two individuals.
It's an, it's a large group. So you're getting a lot of commentary, different types of [00:40:00] commentary. And you're adjusting, I guess, the, the, the rolling and the, the blends accordingly.
**Gizmo:** And a lot of different palettes too. So the, to answer a grinder's question about the tasting, the thing that I would say about what I've learned in this process about Honduran tobacco, and I think it's actually coincidentally very aligned with what Senator was just talking about with the manufacturer of this wine and his intentions coming in where he was trying to.
Be inspired by a different kind of wine somewhere else in the world. Certainly that is the case here with Cuban tobacco for Rob and Hamlet. Obviously Hamlet's background is in Cuban tobacco. Rob has been prior to this exclusively selling Cuban tobacco on the internet for many, many years successfully with friends of El Habano.
And I think what I've learned is that Honduran tobacco is the closest thing I've ever had. To Cuban tobacco. Yeah, there's nothing closer interesting.
**Senator:** Yeah, I mean you look at the site and they're they lean very heavily into it and it's exciting because I mean, here's one the the [00:41:00] pyro, uh, Desnudo, uh, pyramid and two says picture a Ramon Ionis profile in a pyramid.
That was our vision and that is what I believe we have achieved. That sounds incredible.
**Gizmo:** And when I tried that cigar, Rob sent us those cigars, or Hamlet sent the cigars from Miami, and Rob came on that call and said, guys, I'm not giving you any notes about this. I'm not telling you anything about it. Just light it up and tell me what you think.
And we all were on that same page. What? Ramon. Yeah. Partagus, all of those notes came out. Can I just say one thing? It's a great,
**Bam Bam:** great cigar. What blows me away is that I don't think there has ever been a New World cigar manufacturer that ever made a cigar that harkens back to a Cuban cigar, ever. I haven't ever heard of that.
**Senator:** I also love the funny thing. You read the end of this description and it literally says fresh a 91 point cigar every time with plenty of scope on the upside. It's one of the cigar world's bargains to outright say that this starts as a 91 point cigar and it's probably only get [00:42:00] better with age. I mean, like we talk about truth and honesty, you know, most 98 point cigar right off the bat.
No cigars, a 98 point cigar right off the bat. I love the approach, like there's, you know, there isn't any kind of smoke and mirrors here. I also see they have a Robusto Trinity that's got a pigtail, so I know Rooster's going to be ordering a Fats Cam. There's
**Bam Bam:** several pigtail cigars in there. Guys, that's a great
**Grinder:** cigar too.
They reference other Cuban cigars as well. Hamlin I Stro for a blend. Lancero that had the best elements of Monte Cristo, Especial and Puerh Laranga. Uh, where do you see
**Bam Bam:** that? You'd never ever see those comparisons. That's makes it very interesting for me.
**Gizmo:** And guys, let's, let's recall last week when we released that episode, uh, the episode with the interview from Steve Saka that we did a PCA and what Steve was saying about new world manufacturers really being unable to get close to that Cuban experience.
And I think that the truth is here, Robin Hamlet. Certainly Hamlet [00:43:00] being a, someone coming from Cuba. That's what he's worked with. He went, obviously worked with Rocky Patel for quite some time, getting back to his roots from a flavor profile standpoint with Rob's taste bud guidance of 30 years of smoking the best of Cuban cigars.
Like Rob is a Cuban cigar smoker. That's what he wants to smoke, but he doesn't want to sell a 65 Sigla fives and eliminate. Significant pieces of his potential audience or customer base.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. It's quite bold to compare your cigars to Cuban Vitolas that we love. That's, that's a bold move.
**Grinder:** I think, I think if there were probably anyone else making that kind of comparison, it would be discredited, right?
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Right.
**Rooster:** Yeah. I also like the fact that the cigars don't have bands. Yeah. You know, it's, it's something, uh, it's like old school, right? Like the old It's very
**Gizmo:** Cuban.
**Rooster:** Yeah. But, you know, in the beginning, like, Cuban cigars did not have vans.
**Gizmo:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** So I kind of, kind of like that. And the
**Gizmo:** motto there, by the way, is no boxes, no [00:44:00] bands, no bullshit.
That is the tagline. Nice. Of the cigars. And, you know, like I said, he's trying to release cigars that are very affordable for any smoker. If you're an attorney, if you are a plumber, if you are someone who is in sanitation, or you're someone that makes millions of dollars, anybody, with any budget, who has a curio If you eat salad
**Senator:** in your car, or at the dinner table, for everybody.
**Gizmo:** Correct. That was an attack. Okay. All right. It's, uh, it's, it's really, really exciting. And again, for us and for our listeners, I think this is a real good opportunity to try some new stuff, some great stuff. We're obviously going to be smoking some of these on the podcast. We're going to do reviews and we are going to be unbiased.
If they don't score 90s, 91s, 92s, we are going to be very, very honest about it. And I think Rob is excited because he knows that we are also no bullshit. So I think that's going to be a very, very cool. So
**Bam Bam:** what's your favorite cigar from his catalog?
**Gizmo:** I have a couple. I love the ninfas. I love the queen Corona.
**Bam Bam:** You like N [00:45:00] one and seven both. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So the N N is the, it's a designation of, of the Vitola and the size. So I just know them. I don't know the numbers as well as I know, like just the names. The new pyramids is amazing. I love the Fat Fundy. I love the Robusto Trinity. I really like the Lancero. I really like the upcoming Bon Roberts 109.
You're
**Bam Bam:** not giving me your favorite, though. You're like, I know. It's
**Gizmo:** the
**Bam Bam:** 109. I think that the
**Gizmo:** best cigar I smoked in 2023 is the upcoming Bon Roberts 109, which is going to be released later this year, which is going to be specific. It's going to be made at Fabrica 5 by Hamlet and the team there. The special forces of the cigar rolling and only
**Bam Bam:** released through Bon Roberts.
**Gizmo:** And it's going to be a Bon Roberts cigar. I think Ravi, uh, from, uh, COH, the former cigars of a bonus is going to be distributing them, uh, potentially worldwide, definitely X U S and they might come from Miami here in the U S but they have a, they have a beautiful box and bands and all that [00:46:00] stuff. That's the best cigar I smoked in 2023.
Hands down. I put a review up on the forum. If you go look at FOH, you could find that review. Lizard Gizmo. Uh, it was the best cigar I smoked last year. And again, one more time for listeners out there, exclusive to Lizard listeners, 10 percent off with coupon code FAB5 for your purchase of Ninfas. It works on bundles or five packs.
Check it out and worldwide free shipping on all orders over 125 US after the discount. The website again is Fabrica005. Dot com. Wow. I am excited. I'm,
**Senator:** I can't, I've been waiting for this for months. I am too. I mean, we had a listener question. I feel like many episodes ago talking about, uh, unbanded cigars and custom rolls and all these things because the Cuban market has just gotten so insane.
And, you know, I was the purist of I only want to smoke things with bands and admitting that I've been much more adventurous with these crazy price increases and found some real amazing gems that [00:47:00] have just become part of the daily rotation. And I think this happening with New World Tobacco, but that is very much trying to deliver a Cubaness profile.
I mean, I'm, I'm just as excited about this as any, you know, Cuban custom roll that we've smoked. So this is, this is very cool. What they're doing.
**Bam Bam:** It's excellent timing from the point of view of the, all the price increases from Habanas, I say, but, um, it's exciting to have a new line of cigars that we can try
**Gizmo:** and pursue.
Sam, to your point about the price increases, I don't think that, that's This is an accident. Oh, no, that this is that Rob has gotten motivated after the COVID shortage and having to cut down 24, 24 to not having shopping carts anymore. And you have to, it's, this is all a product of the experience of saying, Hey, how can I offer something to my customers that my distributor and my, uh, you know, the operation that kind of feeds us all our cigars is not giving us, you know,
**Senator:** I was just gonna say it's true.
I mean, I, I remember Rob talking about just how frustrated and tired he was of not having [00:48:00] inventory to satisfy his customers demand and what they're looking for. And so to your point, I imagine with this, it's like finally being able to have like a reliable supply chain where he knows the, the profile of what his customers are looking for, which is very much what we pursue and are looking for.
And to be able to fulfill that regularly, I mean, just, it's a win win for
**Bam Bam:** everybody. But to piggyback on that, it's interesting to have such a catalog of cigars that have been heavily vetted and critiqued, right? That's something special.
**Gizmo:** And the one thing I want to say on critique for the listeners out there, there's two really important things about this.
Number one, any listener who's listening to this podcast right now, uses that coupon code, goes by as a bundle or a fiver of ninfas. You can go on the forum right now and post up a thread and tell everybody on that forum including Rob and Hamlet what you think, good, bad, or indifferent. Let's say you hate them or there's something wrong.
They have a money back guarantee on the website. You go, tell me another manufacturer that has a money back guarantee. [00:49:00]
**Senator:** I saw Rooster's head spin when you said that. It doesn't happen. It's just crazy. It doesn't happen. Can you imagine? R and J would have to refund me for every single cigar I've ever bought from them almost.
Every Churchill.
**Gizmo:** It's like eight grand right there. No, but if you don't like it, you can go on their website and tell them that, and you have 30 days and they'll give you your money back. Wow. And that's just That's just very uncommon. I
**Senator:** just like that. If we don't, if we have any issues, we can just take it up with Gizmo.
You can come right to me. Yeah, perfect. We're knocking on your door. I think it's, I think open your door. I don't like your cigar. It's
**Grinder:** not going to happen with these. I think it's exciting. There are definitely other cigars and cigar lines that came out with a brand that said, you know, this is Cuban esque, right?
And Atabay comes to mind and others, similar cigars. You don't get the marketing. Yeah. uh, play in this, right? And in the absence of bands, the fact that it's mostly, you know, there's, there's not these grandiose boxes. There's an element that's lost, but there's also [00:50:00] an integrity that's underscored in it.
And the fact that these bringing all these people that have a taste profile that he acclaims. to actually this in the right place before he brings it to the public. That's, that's exciting. Right? So you, you have a group that's vetting it, that you know, is not just marketing dollars and cents oriented.
They're like, we want to make cigars for people that enjoy cigars. Like we do. The other question I was going to ask you in regards to Honduras is, um, have they had any similar challenges with, like we talk about supply in Cuba, like, Part of the price increase, which we're kind of hypothesizing is actually supply and demand supplies.
Low demand is high. That's a price, you know, that's a price, uh, sweet spot for, for these, for these guys, right. Is Honduras similar? Like what, what kind of, what kind of growing conditions there are more advantageous right now? Like what's.
**Gizmo:** So my understanding of what's going on there and the conversations [00:51:00] I've had with Robin Hamlet about it is first off, they're using, uh, Four, five year aged tobacco and all of these cigars to start and they don't put age statements on it, but they're using aged Honduran tobacco So they're using stuff that's you know, a little bit older and I think that they're moving kind of in the Padron way They're moving at a pace that if it's available and it's good and we have enough we'll put it out But they're not forcing anything into it to put out an inferior product to just meet numbers or whatever It may be for example when Rob put something up on on on, on Fabrica 5 or on FOH, once they're gone, they're gone until there's more available.
There's not an ongoing supply of these things for the sake of it. I was going to
**Bam Bam:** ask you, like, how are they inventorying, um, you know, blocks of, of production or are they creating just a block and then stopping and then waiting for demand to increase on that particular cigar? I think
**Gizmo:** what they're doing is they're rolling a certain number of cigars of a blend and, and the specific tobacco they have.
So they're
**Bam Bam:** very nimble, right? They're very
**Gizmo:** nimble. They move quickly. It's a [00:52:00] small team. Nice. I think they have 10 20 pairs of rollers that are in this, you know, seal team five, uh, facility. That's why they're called Fabrica five. That's cool. It's kind of like seal team, six seal team five. When are we flying down?
That's a good question. That's up next.
**Bam Bam:** Thank you.
**Gizmo:** I have to talk to Rob about that, but you know, again, to grinder's point, not to harp on it, but I think aligning with the ethos of what we do, putting our name on something, partnering with someone that we believe in, we would not lead the listeners. In the, in the wrong, down the wrong path and certainly for Rob and his community, his community is his livelihood.
He's not gonna, you know, lead his people down that path and the ability to go on there and if you're unhappy with something, put it up and, and, and give feedback. There's no other manufacturer that's able to do that. And, uh,
**Rooster:** you know, Granta, you mentioned about the Atabay. These cigars at a fraction of the price of Atabay.
Atabays are like 40. Yeah, they're expensive. You know, so these are about under 10. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** I think the most difficult thing to do in business is to take [00:53:00] critique and make adjustments in your business model, whatever you're doing. And if he's doing that, and it sounds like he is, uh, we've got to try these cigars as quickly as possible.
Because they've got to be incredible. I think.
**Gizmo:** Absolutely. And they are.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So we're going to have different coupons each week for different Vitolas, so tune in each week for different, uh, different coupon offerings. So like I said, the NINFA is available now. Coupon code FAB5. F A B 5. F A B 5. at fabrica005.
com 10 percent off for all our listeners worldwide free shipping on orders over 125 bucks. And yeah, thanks to a fabric of five for a jumping on board.
**Senator:** And also for listeners who are buying and trying these cigars, email us. I mean, we're going on the same journey as many of these listeners, obviously gizmos ahead of us having been part of the tasting panel, but we'd love to hear what some of the listeners are enjoying that they try on the site.
Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. So boys, the Cohiba Ciglo 5. This is an excellent cigar.
**Bam Bam:** I mean, [00:54:00] it's getting better and better.
**Gizmo:** I find that, I know I've been talking, I'm, am I behind you, behind you guys a little, little bit? Yeah, you talk too much. What else is new, Ben? Yeah, this is just delivering a really, really excellent experience to me.
**Senator:** I also like, to me, as you get closer to the last third and into it, it, uh, it picks up a little bit. Not a lot, but a little bit in a nice way. We love that. It's like
**Gizmo:** one touch more above medium. I
**Bam Bam:** think it's gotten savory, and as the fruit and floral dissipate, that still kind of continue through. That savoriness, still very smooth delivery, sophistication just doesn't, doesn't end.
**Senator:** As, as Gizmo would say with his steak orders, it's medium plus. Medium plus. Rare plus. Rare plus. Rare plus. Medium plus. I order rare plus. That's your new temperature.
**Gizmo:** I do, I order rare plus. I love it. I tried it once. But this is definitely medium plus. It's awful.
**Senator:** I just also have to put out to the listener, if any listener has a problem [00:55:00] with ordering a steak medium, sorry, rare plus, please write to me.
An email. Yeah. I'm just such a traditionalist. Is this a controversial topic? It is. Look, I'm just, I have to say it. I'm sorry. Look, anyone who's been, if you've been eating steak for a long period of time, I mean, there was no such thing as rare plus a decade plus ago. Like no one was ordering that. So is medium minus a rare plus?
**Bam Bam:** So we were out to dinner that one night, right? And he ordered a steak rare plus. So I thought to myself, okay, I'll try a rare plus as well. It was interesting.
**Senator:** Yeah, I mean, just look, the traditional designations for anyone who's been eating steak for decades, right? It was well done, medium well, medium, medium rare, and rare.
And like, it's a pretty straightforward categorization of how you want to eat. Why can't we have micro temperatures? He's a complex guy.
**Gizmo:** And so like, why can't we have fractional temperatures
**Senator:** if we're saying rare Plus, I mean, it's basically saying medium rare [00:56:00] and we're just splitting hairs. And so I I, I'm just curious.
That's why I'm throwing this out to listeners. If any other listener is at all is gonna confused or perturbed by Rare Plus, can I write in I'm perturb. I love it. I mean, I just feel like this is, yeah, use a different handle. , I, I feel like, I feel like this, Hey, you know, I really love Rare Plus. I feel like this may be the most Gen Z steak order I've ever heard.
Gen Z. Gen Z.
**Gizmo:** He's
**Senator:** younger than me. Blast
**Gizmo:** him. And I don't order a
**Senator:** rare plus steak. I mean, how many letters and symbols are you going to add to your steak
**Rooster:** order? What's the difference between a medium, rare and a rare plus? I don't know.
**Senator:** I mean, Gizmo would say it's in between medium, rare and rare, but I mean, to me, it's just splitting hairs.
Like that's what medium rare is
**Grinder:** meant to be. Oh, wait, it's not rarer than rare. Oh, see, he actually took it the other way. Oh, I thought it was the other way. That's what I kind of thought. They call that black and blue. That makes zero sense
**Bam Bam:** then. I've heard of black and blue, which is Wouldn't it be rare minus, though?
Rare minus, or whatever [00:57:00] the hell you may as well be raw at that point. I have heard
**Gizmo:** that. No, because it's rare plus, because you're going up into the Into the medium rare territory. But if that, listen, all I'm saying is if the grill is, uh, uh, two minutes between rare and medium rare, I'm saying just make it one minute.
I
**Senator:** have to say what grinder saying also makes logical sense. Like rare plus does not connotate going down toward medium, rare, rare, plus would be going more rare. So the whole thing just doesn't make any sense to me. I can picture the chef in the kitchen. I love the look on Gizmo's face right now. You have no clue.
Every time he orders this, I just sit there and I'm like, guarantee the chef's going to spit in that steak. I mean, it's just ridiculous. Alexa sauce.
**Gizmo:** Correct. I bet the chef celebrates because Celebrates? A connoisseur. I
**Senator:** have a connoisseur at my table.
I don't think the Outback Steakhouse has a I didn't order a rare porcelain in
**Gizmo:** Outback. Rare porcelain in Outback. I'll blow him
**Senator:** in on the [00:58:00] end. I mean, there, you may need to order it because they might not know how to make a medium rare steak, but at a real steakhouse, I'm sorry, a proper medium rare comes out like what you're looking for with this rare plus,
**Bam Bam:** you're getting too fancy over there for you.
**Senator:** Yeah. I mean, look at this. You put gizmo, he gets a blazer and now he's ordering rare plus he's ordering Jason Cabernet. I mean, I don't know. Got rid of his Kanye
**Bam Bam:** hoodie. No more of that. Ha ha
**Gizmo:** ha. I didn't know that rare plus was a controversial, uh, temperature in the room. I
**Senator:** didn't know it was a thing.
Thank you. And I would consider Grindr, uh, you know, a real steak eater and connoisseur. There you go. Thank you. I appreciate that. Are we out of
**Grinder:** wine? This is good wine.
**Senator:** Yeah. Daddy needs more wine.
**Gizmo:** That's also a controversial statement.
All right. All right. All right. So speaking of controversy and kind of the [00:59:00] opposite of what we just talked about with fabric of five and some of these other things, Habanos has launched the Trinidad 55th anniversary humidor. They announced it at the. Habanos festival in March, which was, you know, a big event for Trinidad, 55th anniversary, the Habanos world days are coming up, I believe in late April or may right around this time.
When this episode comes out sometime in London, uh, put on by hunters and Franco, and what's not, this isn't so interesting to me that they have a fancy humidor made by St. DuPont. That's just ridiculous and expensive, et cetera. It has 55 funded doors in it, which was interesting because we haven't seen those coming up much.
Right. But with this. Habanos has announced that they are phasing out, they are sunsetting the Anahatos program, which is a very controversial program, as we've discussed many times on the, on the podcast. And it's, you know, very controversial in this Cuban cigar community because the variety, you know, the, [01:00:00] the, Validity of the age statements.
Oh, it's between five and eight years. And they're putting out Vitolas that have never been released before that all of a sudden have five to eight years with different profiles. There was a lot of fugazi going on with the on a hottest program. I think that's pretty widely accepted in the community.
Well, they've aged that out probably because of the. Sales of that program and the response to it and they are now launching a new vintage program Guaranteeing certain ages of cigars.
**Bam Bam:** Are they really guaranteeing it?
**Gizmo:** That's what they're saying
**Bam Bam:** That's a Cuban guarantee
**Gizmo:** what they're saying is and these cigars are the vintage 10 funda Doris There's 55 of them in this crazy Trinidad humidor.
According to Habanos, the funda doors are under the unprecedented vintage 10, a new aging concept regulated by the regulatory council of the Habanos [01:01:00] protected Appalachians of origin. Hey kids, are you
**Bam Bam:** on that
**Gizmo:** panel too? I didn't get a call for that one. Again, it's the regulatory council of the Habanos protected Appalachians of origin, which is the worst name I've ever heard.
This sounds like a Michael, uh, Michael Scott. Yeah, or
**Grinder:** actually the other guy in Florida who's on the run. Oh, yeah, Mickey
**Gizmo:** Mouse Which certifies that these VTOLAs have been aged in perfect conditions for a period of 10 to 14 years So here are the
**Senator:** new Well, I'm glad that means that finally they're going to be more excessively priced.
Oh, sure. It's a good point, Sam. This is a complex pricing scheme. 10 to 14 what they're going to charge for these? It's going to be absurd. I mean, how much age is on a Grand Reserva? I think that's eight years. Right. That's going to be more.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Or 10 years. I don't know what a Grand Reserva is. It's a lot.
No one knows. Yeah, exactly. So here are the four vintage classifications that are going to be coming [01:02:00] from Habanos in the future. The vintage five, which is a silver band is cigars are cigars aged five to nine years. The vintage 10 has a gold bronze band, which is this funda Doris release has cigars aged between 10 and 14 years.
The vintage 15 gold band. Cigars aged 15 and 19 years, and if you can believe it, the Grand Vintage 20. With a gold glitter band, cigars have been aged for at least 20 years. You know, the look
**Bam Bam:** on, the look on all of our faces is just absolute
**Senator:** disappointment. Really. I mean, it's also just like, the bullshit meter is going off like crazy.
Oh yeah. I'm sorry. I'm supposed to sit here and believe that there is 20 year age tobacco in Cuba that hasn't been rolled yet and sold. Never. Get outta here. Never. Never. Where are they keeping this? And what were they keeping it for? 20 year age tobacco that they're like, Nope, we're not gonna [01:03:00] roll and sell this.
We're just gonna hold it here. Bullshit.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Senator:** Is this
**Gizmo:** just on Trinidad? This, it, Trinidad is the, uh, the Vitola that it's launching with? But this is going to be the new Anahatos program. So I'm assuming that each year, there's going to be a new vintage release of some cigar in the catalog that have been aged at, uh, at some sort of, uh, you know.
**Bam Bam:** I, I think what they're trying to do, they're catering to the ultra wealthy global cigar smoker around the world that's willing to pay these outrageous prices for a prestigious box. Give me my standard production cigars, I'll be very happy. I mean, all I'll have to say though, with
**Senator:** hearing their sunsetting the Anahatos program, I mean, RIP the, uh, Upman Anahatos, because that was one hell of a cigar.
**Gizmo:** But dude, so many of them were not great. What? No, no, no, no. So many of the Anahatos program. Oh, agreed. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. I thought you were about to attack the Upman Anahatos. I'm like, wait a minute. That's a great cigar. I've never,
**Bam Bam:** ever had a bad Upman Anahatos. Same.
**Gizmo:** Ever. That's a great cigar, but [01:04:00] there's a lot of cigars in that Anahatos program that have just been absolute duds.
You know, what I've seen on the internet, um, is that retailers have had difficulty selling them because there's a lack of trust in these numbers.
**Bam Bam:** Well, do you think the trust is going to increase now with this whole aging, uh, If you put a
**Grinder:** glitter band on a Cuban cigar, there's no credibility. Come on.
Glitter, gold glitter.
**Gizmo:** It's the gold glitter band.
**Bam Bam:** I think the
**Gizmo:** Grand
**Bam Bam:** Vintage 20. They lose credibility with this move. I don't know if they had much credibility to begin with. I agree. It's true. Like I said, give me my standard production cigars. I'll be very happy.
**Grinder:** But you guys, I mean, you guys have been to Cuba.
You've seen the inventories live. You've seen the scarcity.
**Gizmo:** There's no way. There's no way to Senator's point. And listen, are you telling me that they're announcing this program this year and they're going to wait 15 years to have a grand vintage 20? The answer
**Bam Bam:** is no. All of a sudden [01:05:00] they found 15 year old.
The
**Gizmo:** problem I have even with Fundadoras, right? Let's say Fundadoras, they have had such a shortage of Fundadoras being released. Are you telling me that over the past 5 to 10 years, they've been secretly rolling Fundadoras or putting aside that tobacco for 10 to 14 years of age, not releasing it to the public when they've been struggling financially?
Before the price increases to meet demand, everything else, you're telling me that they've just, Oh, let's roll these and hold on to them. Like a long vision type of, uh, game plan here for their business. It's just never existed. Like, are they buying like Minron knees collection or something or someone else's?
That's what they'd have to do.
**Grinder:** That's the only, I was actually thinking that when you mentioned it, there's maybe there's some folks either a part of the ethos or the program, the organization somehow that have these collections.
**Senator:** Right. It's like, for all these years, the reason I bring up the Grand Reserva line, like, those are the most expensive [01:06:00] cigars that they produce regularly, and that's because that's clearly the most aged tobacco they have their hands on at, what, eight or ten years.
But we're just supposed to believe that this entire time Had 'em, they've just tucked away this 20 year age tobacco and said they've had 'em, we wanna make no money on this. And then all of a sudden this year they got this idea, maybe we should sell it. I mean, come on.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. They had, uh, insanity. They had 5,000, uh, 10 to 14 year age, uh, fund.
Doris, I dunno, just they, they forgot about them in a closet. A hum humidified closet somewhere.
**Bam Bam:** Well, you know what? We're lucky we have Fabrica 5 now. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Well, you know what's interesting about you saying, bringing up Fabrica 5 again and Rob is what I wonder about all this is the impact that Bon Roberts has had on, on Habano's thinking with their aging program and the chasing of age cigars that has happened so clearly, you know, on, on a marketplace like bond Roberts, which they've sold tens of thousands of [01:07:00] boxes at this point, I'm assuming in the four years that they've launched during COVID.
So it's like, you got to imagine that Habanos is looking at this going, we're missing out on a significant piece of a secondary You know, uh, market market or your revenue opportunity. Like we got to, we got to fix this. It's
**Grinder:** like ticket master.
**Gizmo:** This is they're going to assume they're going to have the official platinum funded doors, official resale, official resale, platinum funded doors.
So yeah, the, um, this is really bums me out. And of course they're packaging, like I said, in a beautiful SD DuPont. Uh, the human or nothing against that, but the packaging presentation, the aging program that they're announcing now. It's just, it's another step in the wrong direction for Habanos SA and Cuban tobacco.
Does it come with an Estee DuPont lighter? It does not. It does not. It's a really nice ornate box, but not much we can say about this. Not good.
**Rooster:** Yeah,
**Gizmo:** can't wait to try it. [01:08:00]
**Bam Bam:** Well, connoisseur corner, I'm sure we'll be placing a lot of orders.
**Gizmo:** Maybe they're buying the funded doors for a rooster. Yeah, I sold them
**Senator:** to BAM.
Then I resold them. Babs putting an addition on his house. He's a flipper.
**Gizmo:** Oh man. So that's an unfortunate piece of news. And I actually liked that. We. Kind of coincidentally bookended that with the, uh, with the Fabrica five announcement and, and where that's going with us and, and with them. And, you know, it's just, uh, it's just unfortunate the way the Cuban tobacco is moving here.
So boys, we're into the last third here on the Cohiba sigil of five and the Jason wine from 2018, the Cabernet. What's everybody thinking? Cigar is excellent.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Very good cigar. And he just, you know, it keeps building. It's picked up a little bit in strength. Yep. But all the same notes that you get in [01:09:00] the beginning.
Like, yeah. They gotta come through. Like I said, they carry through and still very smooth. And you know, you still get those, that Cohiba DNA just kind of comes through.
**Grinder:** I think it's right. And, you know, my, my sweet spot though, kind of that medium bodied, medium flavor. The finish is, is, is, I think it's perfect.
Yeah. It's not too elongated. I, you know, I can't stop smoking it. The finish is not that short, like you
**Bam Bam:** mentioned earlier. Yeah. I said it was a medium finish. Yeah. It's not too elongated. Like you said.
**Senator:** Yeah. I do agree with medium. Like one of the things I like when I smoke. I agree. Uh, really any of the Cohibas that I've very recently started to get into, it's just got a very clean finish.
Like when I sometimes, I don't know if anybody can relate to this, when I sometimes want to have like a quick cigar, but I actually have like other things I need to do that day that require like meeting people and just being around people who are not cigar smokers. Like I don't [01:10:00] for like a heavy Nicaraguan cigar where I am going to reek of tobacco.
I mean, I'm going to have to brush my teeth twice, if not three times to like, not taste that like intense Nicaraguan tobacco. Some of these Cohibas, like you can just have one of these cigars, like throw on another set of clothes and like, you're good to go. Like, it's just such a clean finish.
**Bam Bam:** Like this wine we're drinking tonight.
**Gizmo:** It's funny you say that about choosing cigars that aren't offensive after, you know, every cigar, I guess is offensive in a way to a non smoker, but the levels of offense that come with quality tobacco, you know, versus. Certainly non quality tobacco and then also the difference in quality tobacco from Cuba from the Dominican from Nicaragua and the intensity that it kind of lingers on you.
Yeah. It's a really interesting commentary on that. Cause I, I haven't thought about that so explicitly, but certainly it's been in the back of my head as I've made cigar choices very similar to what you're saying. I've
**Grinder:** definitely, I mean that, uh, that makes me recollect. I've definitely had that thought process and I'll truth be told [01:11:00] my, like when I smoke, Like a padrone outside or something and I come in versus like, I'd say QD, there's a, my wife will like, that cigar stinks.
Like you, you, you absolutely smell right now. Go take a shower. Yeah, exactly. And like, and you know, that secondhand, um, you know, uh, Reverb or feedback is definitely noted and I take that into consideration as well.
**Bam Bam:** Mrs. Bam Bam will say the same thing. I'll say, no, I'm a walking potpourri today. I'm not washing this off.
**Gizmo:** It's in his beard because he has it under his chin. The whole thing. So boys, I have an interesting one for you. I'm very excited to read this, uh, listener comment from lizard Anthony tonight. He's looking at you, Ben.
**Bam Bam:** I don't, I don't know. He is. Then I'm not liking this. All right,
**Gizmo:** bam, lock in with me here.
Here we go. This is exciting. Yeah. You're savoring. I know you are. I'm savoring, but not for the reason you think. Talking about rooster. [01:12:00] Are you ready? Lizard. Anthony writes, Senator cracks me up. He doesn't retro hail. And he drinks all his whiskeys on ice, yet he's the most critical. If you aren't drinking the spirit neat, you're not getting the flavor the master distiller intended.
Okay, first time. To taste the same in cigars, you have to be retrohaling. You aren't getting the true flavor the master blender intended, if you are not retrohaling. Retrohailing this cigar.
**Bam Bam:** This isn't a nightmare. Bam, when I saw
**Gizmo:** this comment, Bam, I got a little tingly.
**Senator:** So I have to say, look, I love all our listeners, but this listener clearly has not listened well enough.
Go ahead. Go ahead. Correct. Thank you. There should be sirens and red flags going off because, I mean, what are we, what are we doing here? Hell has no fury. Like a Senator scored. [01:13:00] Let me let you two get it out. Oh,
**Gizmo:** that horn is so annoying. Listen, the joy that we get. I'm all for the joy. I'm not trying to rain on
**Senator:** the joy, but I do want the listener to understand.
Number one, with any of the spirits that we review, I. Always take my first sip neat and then add ice. The only time that I'll immediately add ice, if something is. Super aggressive in proof and I already know going in is not at all intended to deliver in somewhat of a refined way like there are certain higher proof spirits that we review that are from a quality brand that we know are going to be delivered in a refined kind of mature way, then sure, I want to try that neat 99 percent of the spirits that we try.
I always start with neat and then if I feel. It needs to [01:14:00] open up a little bit with some ice I do like any connoisseur. I mean, if you do a whiskey tasting or wherever you would do
**Bam Bam:** lizard, Anthony, I think he's couching it right now. I'm
**Senator:** just setting the record straight. I'm all for criticism and feedback.
I'm just saying that, of course, you should try it neat. However, anywhere you go, I mean, folks will take a little pipette with some water just to help the spirit open up. If you've ever been to a scotch tasting, I think many of us have been to them and grinder. I'm sure we'll back me up on this. They'll take a little pipette with some water just to open it up.
It does bring out other notes that you won't get without doing that. So this whole notion that you cannot introduce any water to his spirit. I definitely take issue with, I don't think that's consistent with the community. So I would just. Push the listener a little bit to try their spirit opened up after they've had it need if they feel that it could benefit from it.
And that's what I think most of us, if not all of us do here when we're tasting on the [01:15:00] retro, you know, hold on, hold on, we got to just unpack that first grinder. Well,
**Grinder:** no grinder looks like he's got something to say. I mean, I. I agree with everything he's saying in his defense. And I also, I, I think I drink with you enough to know that you, he does drink it neat at first.
I'll attest to that. And he, and
**Gizmo:** he, this whole attorney persona, he's got an
**Senator:** invoice to pay.
**Grinder:** I have to work from my rate, buddy. No, but I, I, regarding the water and the ice. It does open it up. It is a thing. It adds, it adds a nuance to it. They're certainly different from, you know, having it neat. Uh,
**Senator:** there are master distillers I've sat with from big scotch brands that do exactly that, that literally take a pipette with water and add it to open up the spirit.
Gotta release the dragon
**Gizmo:** the way I've never seen you with a pipette. I think that is pipet One technical, technical piece. But can you buy it tomorrow,
**Senator:** please? Put your pipette [01:16:00] tomorrow. I'm gonna, I'm gonna buy
**Grinder:** one for just for gizmo. Oh, okay. I'm sure we can all envision Senator with a pipette. Of
**Gizmo:** course it's engraved.
**Senator:** Now on the retro hail, where I won't take issue with the listener. And I've said this plenty of times, roosters in the exact same boat that I am. Um, or, or at least a similar boat. I'm not sure that it's the exact same. Um, I do not and cannot on command intentionally retro hail.
**Gizmo:** I just want to say, it sounds like you're not trying hard enough.
**Senator:** Correct. Go ahead. That's fine. I'm willing to take that. Um, however. I do often accidentally retrohale while I'm smoking, and so any notion that I've never retrohaled or can't describe what I'm getting on a retrohale, I mean, that's just silly. It happens. I just can't do it on command like that. Erroneous!
Erroneous! This is like changing the rating. There's nothing changing. It's the same thing I've said on every episode we've ever talked about the retrohale. I just can't, and just like Gizmo while he wants to sit here and pretend he's [01:17:00] always been a retrohale guy, Gizmo couldn't retrohale the same way on command all the time before.
That is not true. And you literally play the tape back. I'll pull this if you want the next episode. Hold on. I
**Bam Bam:** just want to make an observation. I think Rooster's scared to say something.
**Rooster:** No, he's waiting. Cause I'm sure he's going to chime in with the same thing. I mean, not everybody can retrohale, but, but you're right.
I mean, accidentally once in a while you do end up retrohaling and it's,
**Senator:** Yeah. And my point is, I'm telling you, if we play this back, Gizmo said, like, you literally practiced being able to retrohale on command. So this notion that before you were always able to do it, like, no, that was not the case. And all I'm saying, I'm owning again.
I was retrohailing when I was 10
**Bam Bam:** years old.
**Senator:** You were, he was not, I don't remember any of this outside of you would probably grinder. None of the rest of us sitting here, we're doing that.
**Rooster:** I remember that right after the Babel lesson, he, he, he, No,
**Senator:** he's a babble guy. We're Duolingo guys. This [01:18:00] is why his Spanish still isn't very good.
Oh, it's a backhanded indictment. I'm just trying to get him on the babble train. That's all. I'm sorry. The Duolingo train. So my point is simply I'm owning, you've never heard me sit here and say I can retrohale on command. Have I ever said those words? No, that's true. I'm being honest. I can't. And there's nothing wrong with being honest.
It's
**Gizmo:** just a thing that the lizard, you know, the lizard Anthony is saying you should try harder. I think that, I think it's just a point. I might need to put an asterisk on all of his ratings.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, maybe we need to have a tutorial.
**Gizmo:** We might
**Bam Bam:** retro hale tutorial.
**Gizmo:** We need to, you know what we need to do is make him draw and then just hold his mouth.
You what? I'm actually . We'll put duct tape on your mouth. I'm actually
**Senator:** glad that Gizmo said this while we're reviewing a cohiba. Because wait till I review this coba then. Oh boy. We wanna put asterisk on ratings. I'm gonna give you a rating. . Mr. Cohiba, over here
**Gizmo:** I am. Mr. Cohiba.
**Senator:** You are.
**Gizmo:** And by the way, I'd like to say, I'm very proud of the fact that I think all of us now are Cohiba guys.
**Senator:** And sorry, the very last thing that I want to say. Oh, Lizard, you got, [01:19:00] Lizard Anthony, you got him going. Very last thing I want to say to that lizard. Anyone who is sitting here suggesting that If you retro hail, you, you can get all these flavors and you, you just can't achieve anything close to the same by not retro hailing.
**Rooster:** Not true.
**Senator:** People need to understand certain individuals have very sensitive palates. I'm somehow very lucky to be one of these people. You have been in our cigar lounge where someone has blindly poured me wine, and I have guessed accurately not only where, what country it came from, what region it came from.
what grape I'm drinking. I have an oddly sensitive palate. I'm not saying I've have some special skill. It's just, I'm able to pick these things up. And so the point is not, hopefully I told you in retirement, I actually want to take the SOM exams. That would be very fun for me. And so the point is, you know, [01:20:00] just like someone retro hailing 10 people can retro hail.
And one person may be able, or two people may be able to pick out way more notes than the rest of that group, just because they're more sensitive to be able to pick up those notes. So I also just wanna dispel this notion that like everyone who tastes, draws smoke in their mouth can pull out the same notes.
Or everyone who retro hails is gonna get the exact same things. Like, so every one of us is different. And so, you know, for me, my palate is super sensitive and I don't feel like Mm-Hmm, , I mean, if you've heard any episode. I've never had a loss for flavor notes because I'm not retrohaling is all I'm saying.
**Rooster:** Do you remember sitting in the room with Danilo?
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** And we asked him like, what kind of flavor notes are you getting? What did he say? He couldn't, you know, he was like, you know, this is a great cigar. It's very balanced. It's complex. That was basically it. By the way,
**Gizmo:** Hamlet is the same way from. Is that right?
Yeah, Fabrica 5 F O H. Yeah. When you, when you, when you're saying that, let me guess, [01:21:00] he retrohales and still can't pick out the flavor notes. And when you say like, brioche or something, or, you know, if you call a sourdough out, he's like, stop it.
**Bam Bam:** This is a pretty good conversation from the point of view of how you smoke a cigar, and everyone's different in the way they smoke.
For me personally, the retro is complementary to the draw, and I pick up things when I take it through my nose that I don't get through my palate. And for me, maybe I have to do that.
**Senator:** And I'll be honest, again, I'm everything I'm saying is just how it is for me when I retrohale
**Gizmo:** it's how it is unintentionally.
**Senator:** No, I'm like, there's no reason to lie, right? I've just said a thousand times. I can't intentionally retrohale, but every time I unintentionally retrohale, it is accentuating for me notes that I'm already getting. And so if I had that's
**Bam Bam:** validation right there. No, it's just
**Senator:** saying that, like, my palate's so sensitive.
It's not like there are many flavors or notes that, like, get lost on my palate. It's super sensitive. That's why You did say the
**Gizmo:** word enhanced, though. It does. It [01:22:00] does. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the retrohale.
**Grinder:** Basically, you have to take note that you're working with a master spin master here.
Correct. He's basically turned it. Well, he's selling us right now, by the way. His palate is just so refined that he doesn't need the retrohale. Which may be the case. Who, who,
**Senator:** do we really have to go here? Oh yeah, let's go.
**Grinder:** Okay. Let's do this. I'm contributing. The Spin Master,
**Senator:** who introduced you to Caviar Grinder?
Check. Come on. Look at this in silence.
**Grinder:** What do you want me to say? Yeah, who
**Senator:** got you on the champagne train? Okay, check. Okay, who got you on the cognac? I'm giving I'm giving I'm I'm I got you over here doing pirouette. I got your bag The point is that's what a sensitive palate is able to pick up and i'm sharing that so it'd be one thing if you're sitting Here like oh, you know I have a very closed minded palette and I don't try much or pick up much but that's obviously not the case.
So my point is No, my point [01:23:00] is Some people, their palate's not all that sensitive. That's most people, in fact, right? Like, there's a reason there are psalms and there's a reason people hand someone the wine list at a restaurant. Like, That person with the most sensitive palate is usually going to be picking the wine at the table.
And for other people, the retrohale is needed. Not just preferred or enhances or ideal, but needed to pick out all the notes. And for other people, it's not necessarily needed to get the notes, it just enhances the experience, which I 100 percent agree with. That's all I'm pointing out. You'll never hear me knock the retro hill like, oh, I, I got something bad.
You have knocked the retro hill. I
**Gizmo:** took some real heat on the retro hill. No, you did. No, no, you did. I knocked, you were sweating bullets that night. That was not good. .
**Senator:** I knocked how over the top you were going about the retro hill that you're like, the, the retro hail needs to happen this number of times and this amount.
And the irony is you're saying it, you're not even doing it. That's what I was pointing out. That's all
**Rooster:** you know. Also, you, you get a lot of flavor from the. Aroma. The burn line. The aroma. The [01:24:00] aroma of the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Of course.
**Rooster:** Which Bam always talks about. Same with Rooster.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I do this a big burn line guy.
Yeah, so that's a big part of smoking the cigar. It's the gizmo moment. Yeah, big part of smoking the cigar, right? And
**Gizmo:** then this is the, this is the The aroma. Rooster wafts, and I just put it to my nose. As do I. Yeah, Bam does the same, but that's where
**Senator:** the point is. Like, it's a very sensory experience smoking a cigar and you experience it in so many ways as you're smoking it, whether it's at the burn line, whether it's the smoke you're drawing in your mouth, whether it's the retro health, it's all of those things taken together.
And depending on your palate, you need more of some of those things to get all the notes or less of some of those things. And that's just where every person's different. That's all I'm saying. I would
**Gizmo:** say this has been a sensory experience when listeners criticize you. Yeah. I would love more of that.
Well, you know, If there are any other listeners you want to send
**Bam Bam:** Look, he's making a great argument. We'll take it into consideration.
**Gizmo:** I think we should table this until we get some more listener feedback on this issue. And then we'll come back to the right. Let's, [01:25:00] let's
**Grinder:** run it back in a few episodes. I agree
**Senator:** over some great champagne as many of our listeners enjoy.
Oh, it's true. Can't deny it. Well, I'd like to thank Lizard Anthony.
**Bam Bam:** That's a good email.
**Senator:** It's a good email because honestly, I, I, I genuinely think it's worth a discussion as to how You go about experiencing and enjoying the flavors and the aromas that you're getting from the cigar. And, um, again, I don't think any of us, myself included, is saying one way is, is better than the other.
It's just, each of us has different palates and, you know, we do what is able to deliver. The fullest experience for us.
**Gizmo:** I think that the important thing and, and ball busting aside, I think the important thing about what you're saying there is the difference in the seven pallets on the podcast. Certainly the five pallets in the room being very different is where I think that, you know, what's interesting about the rating and discussing this stuff is that we're all coming at this from very different places and we all have very different pallets [01:26:00] and experiences and preferences.
And I think that's what makes it, uh, Interesting.
**Bam Bam:** It does. And when I'm with other guys and I'm smoking cigars, not this group, I tend to watch how they're smoking. Are they retrohaling? Are they catching the aroma? A lot of guys don't do either and they're missing out. It just, you have to capture at least some of the aroma on the foot of the cigar while you're smoking it.
I think that's an enhancement. Retrohale is an enhancement. You have to attempt. Just make an attempt. Sure.
**Senator:** And the other thing like you know we're talking about retro hailing for for many, not all, not bam, but obviously for gizmo and many requires practice right to like actually get yourself to a point where you can do that on command and get the fullest experience from it.
The same exact thing is true for you. From just smoking a cigar and drawing that smoke in your mouth and being able to pull out and not inhaling, you know, yeah, but and similarly with wine, like you could give you could pour a glass of wine for 100 people and most people still will not be able to pick out the notes and it requires [01:27:00] trying a lot and practice almost right.
to be able to pick out those notes. And that's where I think like, even for the listener that retro hails a ton, like there's a lot of utility in just as you're trying, putting the cigar under the microscope that we do here and trying to pull out some of those notes that you may miss initially.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, I look around
**Senator:** this room again as someone with a very sensitive palate, like not all of us.
Have that same sensitivity, but over time, as we've been doing this for the last two and a half years, I mean, I'll use BAM as an example, like the notes that he calls out now, I'm sitting here like, holy shit, like, that's exactly what I'm getting, where I think two, three years ago, when I knew BAM, he might not have picked up right away.
**Bam Bam:** I've learned over time, and I think that just goes to. You should limiting yourself to how you're smoking that cigar. If you can't retrohale, it's fine, but get that aroma on the foot. It'll enhance your experience and you'll capture things that you're not necessarily catching on the draw.
**Rooster:** Well, there's certain dominant flavor [01:28:00] notes that pretty much most people can pick,
**Bam Bam:** regardless of the method.
Whether you retrohead or not, you can pick those
**Rooster:** dominant notes. Agreed. But there's some other notes that have like a finer nuance, like You know, somebody said like, you know, honeysuckle or something. It's, it's tough. Not, not everybody's going to pick those notes. If we want
**Gizmo:** to go to the OG Petrichor, episode three or something, Grindr explained to us what the smell of rain is.
**Rooster:** But you know, when somebody mentioned something like that, then you're like, ah, oh yeah, you're right. Yeah. I do get that. Yeah. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Yeah. It's very individual. It's a great thing about
**Grinder:** this,
**Bam Bam:** this thing of ours,
**Grinder:** really. I do think, I do think you. up your level a little bit, you up your grade. If you're in a lounge and you're taking the time to retrohale or like do the waft or whatever, because your show is like, you're, you're trying to get, you're, you're trying to do all the, you know, all the different strategies to get the most out of that cigar.
And like, you're a seasoned smoker in other words.
**Rooster:** Yeah. And all of us can tell whether a cigar is good or not [01:29:00] good. Yeah. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** But you can also tell like what Grindr just said, if you're, if you're with a group and you're observing, I like to observe how people smoke, You can tell who's been smoking for a long time and those that are just starting out and you want to have a conversation with them.
**Senator:** Yeah. Like Bruce just said, everyone can, almost everyone, if not everyone can tell if a cigar is good or not good, but what takes practice is being able to articulate why. That's the difference. That's right. My
**Gizmo:** why is to get listeners to write emails that are critical of you. That is my why. Checkmark tonight.
I'm happy to give you a night off. I truly am. A night off. I need it. We're 129 episodes in. I need a night off. And I still didn't get it. Oh, you kind of got it. Well, thanks Lizard Anthony for writing in despite the laughs about it. I mean, it is a good discussion and talking about how everybody's getting their flavors and why, um, is, is awesome.
So speaking of boys, it's time to move into our ratings tonight. Let's start with the [01:30:00] Paul Meyer, Jason, uh, Cabernet Sauvignon 2018. Bam, bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, I, I've been between a nine and a ten from the beginning and I've just, I loved every drop of it. Um, at a hundred dollars a bottle, if it's between 75 and a hundred, I personally would pay that.
Dare I say a ten? I mean, is that too high? I'm, I'm, I'm really, really enjoying this, this wine.
**Gizmo:** All right. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Grinder.
**Grinder:** I think it's delicious wine. I don't, I, my, I think my, my scale, it's hard to me to like communicate what the scale would be for me. So I was debating between an 8 or a 9. Um, yeah, 8 or a 9. I guess I'll go with an, like an 8.
**Rooster:** Try it with some ice. Perfectly acceptable. I was going to say, I was going to say retro Helen. So
**Gizmo:** just push the entire liquid through your nose. It takes practice. Just put some
**Senator:** straws in there first and push it right through the straw and wear a bib. [01:31:00]
**Grinder:** The thing, the thing I liked about the wine, um, I like wines that have that, there's the element of fruitiness, but also a little dry.
That dry finish. And I thought that was a great balance. And because I don't like something that's too fruity, I don't like something that I have to like pucker my lips afterwards, but it, I like it crisp and clean. And with flavor. And I felt like this was smooth. It was like, I, I, you know, I, I asked for a small pour.
I kind of regretted that I asked for a small pour. Not because Bam got more. Correct. And I want more. And Bam finished before me. He's Uh, so yeah, I mean, I, I would, maybe I'd give it a nine. I don't know. Um. Oh, we can't change ratings. No, no. Careful. You're, you're wading into dangerous
**Senator:** territory. I'll tell you first hand.
Maybe
**Grinder:** I'd give it a nine if I, if I had, you know, if I have a fuller spectrum of experience drinking wine.
**Bam Bam:** My 10 is really based on my experience tonight with this cigar. [01:32:00] Maybe if I'm not with the cigar at another, at a table after dinner, maybe it's not a 10, but tonight for me, it's a 10. Senator.
**Senator:** Senator.
So I just want to validate grinder. You should not feel at all apologetic about your rating or that if you had tried more, maybe it would be a nine. I say that because I'm also debating between eight and a nine. I've drank a lot of wine. Um, the reason for me, it's between eight and a nine is the price point is high, like for a hundred dollars.
There are a lot of great a hundred dollars bottles of wine. If this bottle of wine was $50, it would be a nine, if not a 10, easily. I wouldn't even think twice about it. The thing I do have a hard time with is that a hundred dollars, like there are more complex wines at that price point. Like if I have one complaint about this wine.
I would not call it very complex. I think it's really smooth, supple, um, they've done just like a great job of delivering something that's flavorful and has enough structure in a really easy drinking way but it lacks [01:33:00] complexity. You have a
**Bam Bam:** repertoire of wine where you can compare other bottles at the same price point.
Most of us can't do that.
**Senator:** Yeah. But even if you can't, that's why I'm saying like grinder's admitting that he doesn't have that range. And I actually think like his score is extremely fair for what this is. So that like, it goes to rooster with the cigars. Like anybody can tell like a good cigar, bad cigar.
And I do think like anybody can tell a good and a bad bottle of wine. Can they explain every nuance of why, if you haven't had enough of it? Maybe not, but I take no issue with grinder's rating. And I do think I have to give it an eight. You know, what's sad for me is if the price point were lower, it would be a nine, but I just have a really hard time giving a nine at a hundred dollars a bottle.
It's still a nice
**Bam Bam:** rating.
**Senator:** It is. Like, I would absolutely drink this again. Yeah. If I could find it for significantly less for a discount, like Gizmo was able to get it. Yep. I would definitely buy it. It's just that. If I'm going to pay a hundred dollars, there are many wines that are more complex that I would pick up over it.
That would [01:34:00] deliver an even more memorable experience. And so that's really the only reason it's the price point that I have a hard time with and the complexity not being there, but it's supremely enjoyable and drinkable. Um, and just really well done. I just wish it were a little cheaper. So
**Gizmo:** I might surprise you with my rating, despite my earlier comments.
Oh, I know where he's going. I'm absolutely going with a nine. And the reason why is because this wine for me is very much in my wheelhouse of what I like in wine. Mm hmm.
**Bam Bam:** Me too.
**Gizmo:** My commentary was related to the cigar. I've had this wine outside of this experience, had it with food, I really like the wine, and I think I would like it with other cigars better than I did with this one tonight.
Mm hmm. Maybe a new world, a lighter new world, a Dominican or something. For me, the wine was just a little too much for the palate with the cigar tonight, as I mentioned, but I can't take away from the wine for that. Like I thought, I think the wine's really, really good. And for me, I did buy this at a really reasonable price point.
I bought this in the fifties. [01:35:00] It was, I thought it was a good value then. Clearly it's a good value now. So I'm very, very happy with a nine on this, uh, despite my earlier comments, because I think it's a really good wine. It just wasn't the right one for this cigar tonight. Might want to rate it a nine plus.
I told you I didn't get a night off. No night off for you. So boys, the former liquor rating on the Paul Meyer, Jason Cabernet Sauvignon from 2018. It's an 8. 8. Very good. I think that's a perfect score. Yeah. Perfect score. Great. Now, here's the question. If we were to take price out of it, because we did discuss price a little bit, do you think it would bump into the nines or no?
**Senator:** Well, I told you, if this were 50 something a bottle, I would give it a nine for sure. But double that price, I can't give it a nine. Would you change your rating on price or no? No, because I didn't
**Grinder:** even think about that. Yeah. When I, I just was like, you know, I, oddly enough, the reason why he bumped it down is probably why I'd bump it up.
because I don't, [01:36:00] I don't really want a lot of, you know, complexity. I want something that's really easy to drink. Um, and that, that was kind of there. I, my, my mind was more like I would, I just want a better context of what my scale would be. And for me, it was, it just, that seemed, it felt right. I don't know.
**Senator:** And my point is, like, for wanting something easy to drink that is satisfying, like, you can have a bottle of Jordan Cab for, you know, 50, and so, like, if I'm gonna pay double that, that's, like, at the level where you really start looking for complexity.
**Bam Bam:** Well this is better than Jordan. And that's what I think.
**Senator:** It is. Yeah. But is it Double the price. Is it double better? 50. No, price
**Bam Bam:** wise, no.
**Senator:** And
**Bam Bam:** that's the thing. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Alright, boys, let's do the formal lizard rating on the Cohiba Siglo 5. First of Europe.
**Rooster:** I'm gonna keep this the price of the cigar. I'm not gonna equate that that into my rating So, I mean [01:37:00] this is one of the one of the better Cohibas I've I've had in a long time and it's the Seaglow five is Excellent.
Excellent. The size, the burn. I mean, none of us had any issues with this cigar. The flavor. I love the flavor. I'm taking it all the way down. I mean, absolutely no issues. Love the cigar. I'm going to give it a 10. Wow. Wow.
**Senator:** Senator? Um, so I'm at a, at a nine for sure. I love this cigar and I, I am going to keep price as a factor and the reason I'm even comfortable doing it, obviously the price is egregious, but what I do appreciate about this cigar.
It delivers something that I don't get in any other cigar rarely ever get. I didn't hear a single person here compare this to another cigar and say, you know, this really reminds me of X cigar. That's a good point. That's a very good
**Bam Bam:** point, dude.
**Senator:** And I think that's a huge merit to it. Like I, this has made my rotation because there's not a substitute at a [01:38:00] different price point.
And so even at a price point, that's X cigar, Offensive. I'll always pursue it in some form or fashion because it's kind of irreplaceable. And I think it is complex. I mean, we called out a lot of different flavor notes we were getting. I think it builds as you smoke it in a really nice way for its youth.
It was smooth even down to the end. I mean, all of us smoked it all the way down. So, um, I, I think this is a home run in the, the Seaglow line. Like they've done a really nice job with this cigar. It's solid nine for me.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a nine. I think the, the reason why I'm not at a 10 on this cigar for how much I love it is comparatively to other cigars that are priced egregiously.
This is at 65 ish is just, that's just astronomical and crazy for the cigar. I think I look at the Pyramides extra that we reviewed recently on the podcast from Cohiba. That cigar for me has been more consistently [01:39:00] Excellent. The thing about these Sigma fives, and I just had one and I'm looking at other guys around the room, the last quarter for me got a little harsh on this one, which bam, didn't have that experience at all.
Rooster's not having an experience grinder is or is not. You are. So for me, the thing about this cigar is there is a little bit more inconsistency than I'm finding In young Pyramides extra and some of the other cigars that we smoke young. So i'm going to go with a nine on this. I think if it was more consistent If I was able to get a knockout 10 every time i'd be very comfortable with that But I think this does need maybe a little bit more age to reach that kind of mid nines or 10 for me Um, I love the cigar, you know, I love the cigar I smoke them a lot, but i'm very very happy at a nine and I think that's the right score for me
**Grinder:** Grindr.
I, I'm also at a nine. I think, um, this cigar, it, I think I mentioned earlier, it, it fits my flavor profile. Um, I did, I do, I do think there's complexity, [01:40:00] but I don't think the complexity is stark. So oftentimes you, when you have complexity, you, you, you get some tasting notes that seem diametrically opposed as you go through the cigar.
Everything seemed very clustered in a very specific medium. you know, very classic Cuban esque cigar for me, which I like. Um, uh, and you know, it's delicious, but to your point at the end, I did have a bit like, this is like, I think I had to light this like three or four times just now and it still, still went out and it got a little harsh, but only, I mean, what is this an inch and a half?
Yeah. Just there, you know? So overall delicious nine is great score. Fantastic.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You know, I've been between a nine and a 10 the entire night. I think you've all mentioned this, but that. Fruit forward, floral that continued all the way through and it got savory halfway through in that beautiful, smooth delivery.
You don't look like you said, Senator, it's a unique cigar. I haven't had this experience in [01:41:00] any other cigar. That price though, is it's pretty tough. Now I took price out when I rated the wine. If I take the price out of this cigar, it's a 10, but I will go with a nine tonight. The experience was off the charts.
Off the
**Gizmo:** charts. All right, boys, that puts the formal lizard rating on the Cohiba Ciglo 5. At a 9. 2, which I think is a perfect score for this cigar. What was the score in a pyramid extra? So let's go through those. Bam. We'll go through the other four Cohiba cigars we've done on the podcast. On episode 24, we did the Cohiba Siglo 2, the sister cigar to this, to this one in the line.
It's an 8. 0 on episode 78. We took some time away from Cohiba after that one. We did the Cohiba Land Cero, which got a 9. 6, the highest Cohiba we've done on the pod. On episode 115, we did the Cohiba Pyramides Extra, which edged this one out just a little bit at a 9. 4. And of course, with Danilo on episode 121, [01:42:00] we did the Behike 54, but we did not rate that.
So, uh, this falls third out of four. Uh, on the ratings with a 9. 2 behind the Lancero, the Pyramides Extra, and just ahead, quite a bit ahead, 12 points ahead, of the Ciglo II, the Sister Cigar, and the wine. So, obviously there's a lot of Cohiba we have yet to do, and, and we don't reach for these as often as we have some of the other marcas, again, because that price is just so Egregious.
It's crazy. And obviously a 9. 2 is an excellent cigar. High recommend, but it's just not one of those cigars that you can smoke every single day and, and be comfortable with that price. Especially as we're talking other cigars that are 10, 12, 14 bucks from Honduras or Nicaraguan cigars that we love or Dominicans or even other Cubans.
It's just not, you know, something that you're going to be reaching for every day. So, so that's that boys. A great pairing tonight. Fabulous experience tonight. Excellent. So on the Paul Meyer, Jason Cabernet Sauvignon from 2018, we had an 8. 8 and the [01:43:00] Cohiba Ciglo 5 got a 9. 2. Excellent night boys. Great conversation.
Thanks again to our new partner, our sponsor, Fabrica 5. Visit them, Fabrica. 005. com. We really appreciate them coming on and supporting us and, uh, thank you, Lizard Anthony. And thank you. Oh, bam. Good point. I thank you. I said it was a great question. We need more Senator criticism on the email. Some of us need it.
Embrace accountability here.
**Senator:** Oh, I've learned to embrace the accountability.
**Gizmo:** All right. We'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website. Lounge lizards, pod. com. That's lounge lizards, P O D dot com.
Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, or comments, If you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking, email us. Hello at lounge lizards, pod. [01:44:00] com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pot. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.