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Most professionals spend 80% of their workday communicating — and almost none have a system for getting better at it. Conversations That Count changes that.
Hosted by David Shaft — President's Club Banker at Rocket Mortgage, Dale Carnegie graduate, and Detroit storyteller — CTC delivers real conversations with executives, industry leaders, and everyday professionals who break down the communication skills that actually move careers forward.
New episodes every Tuesday and Thursday. Professional multi-camera video production on YouTube. Full audio on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
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• Workplace communication: better meetings, tougher feedback, and difficult conversations that don't blow up relationships
• Public speaking and presentations: how to open strong, handle Q&A, and keep any room engaged
• Professional networking: small talk that leads somewhere, LinkedIn outreach that gets replies, follow-up that builds real relationships
• Storytelling: how to tell your story in 60 seconds and communicate with impact in any room
• Leadership communication: negotiation, influence, and the Dale Carnegie principles that still work today
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Whether you're a mid-career professional chasing a promotion, a manager who needs to run better meetings, or anyone who wants to communicate with more confidence, credibility, and impact — this show was built for you.
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Stories That Stick. Skills That Scale.
Toson Recap
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David: [00:00:00] boundaries are love.
lead with the question, not the answer. name the choice, keep the door open. exposure is the engine. show up even when they won't show up for themselves
David: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the podcast, Conversations That Count. This is your host, David Shaft, and I'm here with eight frameworks from an episode that actually came from our vault. So an episode that I recorded years ago that really left an impact on me, and that I thought was worth sharing again with everyone tuning in.
Now, as always, to go over our eight frameworks, I'm gonna grab my handy dandy notebook, and we're gonna go over them one by one
Now don't forget, if I say anything that really resonates with you, or maybe I missed the mark [00:01:00] completely, and maybe I missed some of your favorite frameworks or takeaways from the episode, please leave a comment, leave something in the comment section and let me know what it was so that we can all make sure to learn from it and grow together.
Now, framework one: mentor from your gap. What I really love about this is Toson became a father figure for over 100 different kids in Detroit. The reason that great mentors exist is because they fill a gap for the people who need them like they needed someone, right? So for me, it took a lot of effort and a lot of work to learn how to become a better communicator, how to become more skilled in my craft, and so I wanna be able to be a mentor for people who are pursuing something similar, who wanna be better communicators, who wanna speak better, more clearly.
[00:02:00] We all wanna become that gap that we needed in the past. So for him, and this is a quote from him, "I'm gonna be the father figure that I always promised to be." So he wants to be what he wanted when he was growing up, and I think that's an amazing thing.
Framework two: care first, then curriculum. What a lot of leaders, educators, people in positions of power, what they do is they wanna lead with knowledge, they wanna teach, they wanna coach, they wanna train, but they don't immediately show that they care. Especially when you're dealing with children, what they need is someone that actually cares about them, so then they can be like, "Okay, this person cares.
Let me then listen to what they have to say
Now, Toson actually, uh, [00:03:00] paraphrased a quote by Maya Angelou, and it's something he lives by
"They don't really care what you tell them until they know how much you care." Now, I don't think this quote is something that all of us haven't heard or probably even said at some point, especially if you're in sales or a customer-facing position or a client-facing position. You know that the person doesn't really care what you're saying to them unless they know how much you care.
Otherwise, it doesn't really matter
Number three, framework three, forgive me. Lead with the question, not the answer. So again, framework three is lead with the question, not the answer. When a mentee shows up agitated, Toson doesn't just give advice. He opens up with one question, "Tell me what's on your mind. Tell me what upsets you." [00:04:00] It's very easy to start telling them, "Hey, it's all gonna be fine.
Relax. Everything's good." Instead, he gives them the floor, opens it with an open-ended question. They can say whatever's on their mind, and then if they haven't worked it through after answering his question, then he'll give them advice. But first he opens it up for them to speak. And this is a great example of showing how much you care, so then it can open up the room for someone to care how much you know.
'Cause you gave them the floor to speak first, now you can actually speak to what they're going through. Framework four, and this reminds me a lot of our previous episode, The Power of No, right? Framework four, boundaries are love. I think we underestimate a lot of the time how important boundaries are, and when you set them, it shows people that you care.
And this shows up in everything, right? It shows up in the little things. For my parents out there, when you have kids and you're showing them how [00:05:00] important chores are, you're making it clear that they're not gonna do whatever they want, it makes a kid feel loved. It makes them feel like someone cares about them and is looking out for them.
So a good quote from Toson, "Kids don't know boundaries, so if you don't set boundaries for them, they'll make a fool out of you real quick A good example is he made it very clear that he's the coolest person in the world, right? And you, you heard him. Ton of energy, very fun guy, very open, very energized, but you're not cursing around him.
I wasn't cursing around Toson, right? Out of respect. He doesn't like that. Neither are his kids. He's making sure that his kids address him with last names, right? They're calling him Mr. Knight. They're not wearing their hoodies everywhere they go. It's not about control, it's about a service. It's reminding the kids not to embarrass themselves.
He shows them he cares enough that regardless of [00:06:00] what's going on, they're still gonna represent themselves well, and that he's comfortable enough to let them represent him
Now framework number five, show up even when they won't show up for themselves. So again, framework number five, show up even when they won't show up for themselves Something he was talking about during this episode is that he had three mentees who are locked up
Man, that's heavy. That, that kind of froze me for a second. Now, I'm not gonna go over the details of each one but whatever they're you know away for, as he mentioned in the episode, he still always takes their calls he still helps them arrange their lawyer And it's that reminder that even when they weren't willing to do the extra work themselves to keep themselves out of that situation, he still shows up, and he still [00:07:00] does the extra work and puts in the extra care to let them know that they're still cared for and that they should still try and that they should keep trying.
A good quote from him, "I'll be there for you on every step of the way. Whatever you need me to do, I'll be there." And that's what he tells every mentee, and I think that's a special thing. And if you can't hear the-- if you can't hear how much that would mean to hear from someone that really cares, then, you know, I'm sorry for you.
That sucks Framework six, name the choice, keep the door open. So he actually mentioned a mentee who chose the streets, a poor style of living, and his text was, "You chose to be the victim instead of the victor." It was direct. There was no clear escape hatch. There was no beating around the bush. It's just, "Here's what it [00:08:00] is Now, what he didn't do though is he didn't close the door.
He didn't end that with, "Never text me again. You're dead to me." Right? He didn't say anything extreme. It was like, "Hey, you made your choice. Now I want nothing to do with you." The door is always open, so if that child, that mentee of his ever wants to choose a different way, wants to try to be better, he can always reach out to him.
He's making it clear this is what you're choosing right now, but it doesn't have to be your life. It is a choice, and I think that's huge So his quote, right? Even while he says that, even as he texts it, the door is still open
Framework seven: exposure is the engine. And this is something that I wanna really elaborate on. I think this is something that's important not just for children, I think it's even important for adults, [00:09:00] right? I just came back from Puerto Rico, which is why I'm, you know, much darker right now. Got a really nice tan.
But I just came back from Puerto Rico, and I was still working while I was there. It was the act of going, and it was the act of exposing myself to something new and putting myself in an uncomfortable position, but also reminding myself that I can perform no matter in any environment I'm in. But also, it's important to put myself in a lot of different environments because I spent a lot of time in nature, and it allowed me to ground, it allowed me to connect with myself on a deeper level, and it allowed me to reflect and really look deeper inside of myself.
So I think there is a huge importance into ex- with exposure. So for him, right, his quote, "I take a group of kids so they can be able to see the difference in the lifestyle." Now, when you're growing up, you know, [00:10:00] poor, Section 8, or you don't see people who are very successful around you, you don't see a lot of opportunity around you, it's very easy to believe that that's the world and that there's not a lot of opportunity around you.
What he does is he takes his mentees to different places, shows them how great the world can be, how big it is. He takes-- he's taken them to places like Chicago, Philadelphia, Alabama, and right, that was years ago. I'm sure he's taking them to even more amazing places now. And he does that so that they can know what is out there and what's available to them.
And this is something that, again, you need to do not only as a kid, and if you can expose your children to it, you can expose people you care about to it, you need to do it for yourself. Because again, the world is a very big place, and it's only becoming more and more connected and more and more global.
We need to expose ourselves to what's out there. It's very important. Now framework eight, and I love [00:11:00] this. I'm not gonna start talking about it before I tell you, but framework eight: be the same person everywhere. No matter where you're going, be who you are Now, that means, it doesn't mean that you can't grow and you can't improve and you can't become better, but it does mean that you need to be authentic to your core values and what's, what do you stand for, right?
There's that old saying, "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for everything." So if you don't know what you stand for, you'll fall for anything and you won't be you. There'll be too many versions of yourself to keep up with. Now, I know that there's always little parts of us that are different depending on who we are, but that's much different from being completely inauthentic to who you are.
So be authentic. This is something we've talked about in just about every episode, right? This is a recurring theme with every guest. Be authentic, be yourself. Uh, a [00:12:00] quote from Toson, right? "It's the adults that are the problem for real
So what that means is if you have a rule, like say for example, we were always told not to smoke, but nearly every adult in our family smoked cigarettes, but they would tell us not to do it. It's hypocritical. It's important that you are what you preach, right? And that you're the same everywhere you go. So if you're telling someone not to do something, don't do it.
Or if you're telling them to do it in moderation, do it in moderation, right? Be authentic. Don't just say it's that terrible line that adults have always told kids, "Do as I say, not as I do." I hate that line so much. If it's so important to do and it's so much better for you, don't do it, right? Very simple.
So with that being said Here are the eight frameworks, just as a reminder, what we [00:13:00] went over. One... Oh, flip my page. One, mentor from your gap. Two, care first, then curriculum. Lead with the question, not the answer. Boundaries are love. Show up even when they won't show up for themselves. Name the choice. Keep the door open.
Exposure is the engine. Be the same person everywhere
Thank you all for tuning in to another episode of Conversations That Count. We're going to have a very special series we're kicking off next week that I think everyone's gonna be really excited to see Just giving you the warning now. Everyone have an amazing, blessed day. I've enjoyed this time. Let's go out there.[00:14:00]
Let's follow the eight frameworks. I'll talk to you soon
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And my promise is I will only continue to improve the content, improve the guests, and improve the best practices [00:15:00] every single time. I will make sure every week and every month that it only gets better for you. So again, thank you all for tuning in. Thank you for watching, and I look forward to seeing you in the next episode