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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
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Tim: [00:00:00] We are back.
Liz: We are back. Welcome back, everyone. Sorry, I was being silly. That's so outside of my personality.
Tim: We, we had such a long subject matter last time we're breaking it into two parts.
Liz: Part two of Understand Myself, the personality test that Dr. Jordan Peterson and his associates created. And we have dived into it personally.
And so we've covered A little bit of ground if you've hopefully you've watched part one, this is part two of that. Yeah. But a small recap would be the big five personality models, which
Tim: are.
Right. So it's broken down into five basic classifications and those, see classifications. Wrong word. Categories, right?
So
Liz: Traits and
Tim: Aspects. Traits and Aspects. Thank you. It's right there in the writing. First being Agreeableness. There is Conscientiousness, Extroversion, Neuroticism, and Openness. So to recap, there are subcategories of each. [00:01:00] Under the first Aspects. Aspects. Aspects. See, she reads. I don't. Under agreeableness, there is compassion and politeness, right?
Under conscientiousness, it's broken into industriousness and orderliness, orderliness. Nice pronunciation. Get it out there. Get it out. There we go. Extroversion is then broken into enthusiasm and assertiveness. The neuroticism is broken into withdrawal and volatility. And then last but not least is openness, which is composed of intellect and aesthetics.
Now, we're careful to make sure that as we go through that, that intellect has nothing. This isn't a comparison to IQ. This isn't
Liz: an IQ test. That's right. That's right. That's right. So where are we left off? was actually extraversion. So we're going to pick up from there. So I did again, ideally, if you had followed along in part one, this is part two of that.
Yeah. So we are going to dive right back into that. Absolutely. Yeah. [00:02:00] And what is extraversion and well, we'll kind of recap. You want to state that? And then we'll of course, give our scores.
Tim: Sure. Actually you read your recap on yours cause we're structured a little bit different on the way that it's composed.
Oh, that is true. Mine. I ranked. I ranked a 94%. Very high.
Liz: Very, very high. I was just high.
Tim: Yeah. Well, that's because I'm, I never mind. It's it has to do with mine is very, very high. So here's a descriptor of mine. That's fine. I high in extraversion, a dimension of positive emotion. Extraversion is a measure of general sensitivity to positive emotions, hope, joy, anticipation, and approach, approach towards particularly social situations.
The two aspects of extroversion are again, enthusiasm and service, right?
Liz: So mine reads very much the same because I'm high and I'm at 86%. I'm not nearly the 94 that you are. That is perfect as me. But yes, so we're, we're in line there since extroversion and [00:03:00] introversion are
Tim: Poles? Poles, yes.
Liz: Opposing.
Yes. Opposing that denote the ends of the spectrum for this trait. You can also think of yourself as being low in. Introversion. Correct. Yeah. So that makes sense for me. Right.
Tim: I know. That's true. It's true. You would agree with that
Liz: then. Yes. I would agree with that because I was really kind of surprised. I, this is a part where I, I welcome a lot of feedback from viewers and listeners and even Dr.
Peterson himself, because I have written all over this page, no, not me. What? This isn't me at all. So there we go.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and then. Again, because it's just it's just the way that we're made up. See that not me, very big. I agreed highly with some of these things. There are a few things I'll question, but I'm gonna read to you the first paragraph is a descriptor and I want to my my notes on here were actually bingo, right?
So, people of very high levels of extroversion are very [00:04:00] enthusiastic, talkative, assertive in social situations, and gregarious. They are highly energized by social contract and crave it uh, I think there's a lot to learn. I think that there's a lot to learn. I mean, there's a lot of vocabulary to learn.
And I think that there's a lot to learn. And I think that there's a lot to learn. So I think really what I'd like to do is at this moment, of course, is make this this new release of anti violence, anti displacement, anti violence, anti violence content. I think it will be entertaining, if you look at it.
Low in neuroticism, which I am, and experience far above average optimism for the future. I tend to be that
Liz: way. So mine is almost verbatim, the exact same descriptors and none of that is me. So unfortunately Dr. Peterson, you got it wrong. And because the last thing I do is. The, I've really underlined the crave it part, the typical energized, but social contact and crave it.
That is the most vile repulsive idea to me in second. So no, that is not it. So I do think it's interesting because there are little parts of it that I'm like, Oh, as I read, as I go down, I'm like, Oh, [00:05:00] this sounds kind of sounds like me.
Tim: We talk of, of all of these, we talked the most
Liz: about this. Yes. This was the one I was really, really surprised.
Tim: Because I, I take. I, in my evaluation of you and our personal experience over the many routes we've been together is that I see many of these elements in you, although you, you tell me you don't crave that, but I see you excel in
Liz: that. Why? Right. Yes. I, I should win an Oscar for my acting abilities just for the record.
So You're welcome. What I'm saying there. Oh, the mask we wear. No, what I'm saying is that, yes, I would honestly believe that a lot of people in my life would say you're absolutely energetic and talkative and, you know, I, I don't crave social situations. Yeah. And, but I am assertive when I'm in them because if I'm in them, I got to deal with them.
Yeah. True. True. So, but it's not something that I guess that I, I'm, I'm characterizing this as I'm thinking about it more as something of [00:06:00] a higher quality of my personality that I like. Maybe it's a part of my personality that I'm not fond of that doesn't, I'm a little self
Tim: perspective. Okay. So we're doing a little
Liz: analysis here.
Yes, we are. I'm thinking about it. I'm like, well, maybe that's
Tim: just. Okay. So now here's, here's where I. Okay. Hey. A little road, little road bump. Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm. . People who are uncommonly extroverted have a difficult time keeping things to themselves, which I find a little interesting and tend to tell everyone about everything, not even a little bit.
But that's not typically me. But of course, of course, I'm, I'm always aware of the fact that I think of myself one way and then there's the person I know and there's the person that people know of me. So according to this very difficult in self disclosing, meaning I have a hard time disclosing stuff about myself.
That is me. Particularly with high neuroticism. Again, I'm low. That's right. And they warm up rapidly to others. They're usually first to speak in [00:07:00] openings. They can be extremely captivating and convincing. And they will often be the first to act. Typically true. We've talked about social situations where I'm usually the first to act.
Liz: So you know, I am really doing some self-respect now that I've had even a couple more days. Just calm. Oh, it sunk in a little bit. No. I don't wanna admit that I'm wrong. I am, the more I think about certain social interactions, because I don't do them a lot, I'm not very social and I'm not trying to say I'm antisocial, I just.
Social engagements really drain me and I was thinking back I shared with you, I went to an incredibly fun eighties birthday party for a friend of mine. Sure. I remember. And when I reflect back on that, I am. a little bit ridiculous. Like my friend was listening to, she would disagree and say it was a lot of ridiculous, but but I remember, you know, walking into the room and just being, you know, very engaging and pulling people to the dance floor and being very, you know, [00:08:00] and it's, when I think about.
That part of me, I, it's almost like looking out, like who's, who's that over there? Like, so I'm getting, I'm getting there when I think about it. I'm
Tim: getting there. So you're, you're having some recap on some different occasions. On
Liz: my personality, like in moments that I've been in social settings. Yeah.
Tim: This, it's, I think it's important that we take just a second to realize why that possibly happened.
Remember, there's a certain mood that we take the test in. There's a certain mood. That we re evaluate what we read. There's a certain mood in what we have when we review and remember things. So those things can intertwine and then maybe they don't all jive, but when you're in a good spirit, you'll find good spirits in, in some of the past events.
So that's interesting. It's interesting that you're taking, you're re evaluating, taking stock in some different things, because this is actually just new, right? This is kind of revelatory
Liz: to you. Yes. Right now, as I'm thinking about what, as I read into the descriptors, I see that, Oh, well, [00:09:00] maybe I, Oh, okay. I can see where I am.
I went to a, I thought about this earlier today. I'm like, you're a little bit ridiculous, Liz, which is just acceptance itself there. But I'd went to a training with a colleague and we were at Oh, like a, the, the hotel bar area and they were playing really loud music and a song came on and I got out of the bar stool and just started dancing right next to the table.
And she was of course laughing like, well, this is just par for the course for you. And it didn't even, and then this couple behind me was like, get it girl. And it was just kind of funny and I was just laughing. And I think in those moments when I look back on. That Liz, I'm like, what do you, how, what is happening?
Like, I don't think of myself in those moments, so maybe, perhaps. So
Tim: maybe, just under the surface, all it takes is a
Liz: little. I was just trying to educate people on awesome 80s music at the time, or 90s at that time.
Tim: But anyhow. Okay. So, in continuation with mine, because I'm very high in extroversion,
Liz: That checks out for you, by the way. I [00:10:00] have seen you. Oh my goodness. You are You're the, I told you, you're the guy that's walking into the room. Hey, bye, bye, bye, bye, bye. Yeah. Huh. Yeah. It's this guy. Whatever. And I'm just like, over there in the corner, like, what
Tim: is he doing? Whatever. Okay. Hi, an extraversion.
I make, I make a strikingly enthusiastic employee. Yes, you do. I'm well suited for most jobs, including sales. situations of persuasion, apparently working in groups and public speaking, particularly once again, if you're low in neuroticism, which I am, they are not suited for all occupations and very, quite specifically, those that isolate me, those that you know, accounting, quiet your low light.
Yeah, computer work. Proofreading documents or yeah. Although I, although I do love reading and research, that's, that's not a job, right? That's not a job. That's something I enjoy, but I would agree with that. I very much agree with that. People with very high extraversion can also be highly impulsive. Now, when I look back on that, that's something.
I, that's something [00:11:00] when I tried to weigh in my life, I'm not very impulsive. So
Liz: I want to challenge you and kind of consider something, because when I read that too, mine's just, since you're just very high and I'm just high, mine is the same sentence. And we all, we've talked about this in, in the first part of the, this episode, or.
the first part of this series of Understand Myself, that the verbiage can be very similar, but there are certain words change because if one's higher than the other, but mine does state the very same statement, except that it just states you're high and extroversion, particularly when it comes to having fun in social settings.
So that really kind of par for the course. I would have you reflect in a time that I was just sharing that, you know, I was out with a colleague, we were having fun, we were having dinner. And I got up and I was doing a little jig by the table. That sounds kind of weird, but, and I had fun and, and other people around me were laughing and we're having a good time.
And I, and it was very impulsive. Like I was like, this is my, and I got up and I stood up next to the table and I did a little [00:12:00] dance and she was laughing. It was just me being silly, but it
Tim: begs to, it begs to. The question, how many drinks in were
Liz: you? No, none, none. Well, I, I was drinking an alcoholic beverage, but I wasn't intoxicated by any means.
So, and that's, I'm really glad you said that. That's another part of like unveiling other pieces of your personality. Yeah. Oh heavens. Yeah. We haven't even covered. That how alcohol and drugs would affect your personality. Good or bad, but no, I was in the process of drinking an alcoholic beverage, but it wasn't anything of that nature.
Tim: Yeah. In our discussion that we had about alcohol, we did have the discussion. Yes. About alcohol. We didn't really have alcohol
Liz: impact on your memory. Yeah.
Tim: We, we did. Yeah. We didn't really go into, man, it can change a person. It can really change people. Right. Well,
Liz: we did. Although I did, yeah. But okay. Yeah.
So my question is, when I state that, just circle back around for everyone listening, is that, is [00:13:00] there a moment that you were in a group of people that you kind of did something behaviorally impulsive or verbally impulsive that you generally wouldn't do? Well, it's yes.
Tim: If the answer is yes, it is. It is.
Yes. I don't. Okay. I'm trying to be as critical and as truthful as I possibly can. I'm not silly. I don't do. Oh, you're definitely not silly. I don't do silly, but I will. I'm not silly. I will say stuff to really shock people sometimes, which is kind of funny. I think
Liz: it's funny. You're the only one, but yes, I'm the, I'm getting,
Tim: I'm the one that finds now in my life, this is true.
I have spoken at nine different funerals. In, even in a very solemn situation like that, I try to find the humor, right? So I will say some things that will make, kind of sit people back that I'm trying to draw the best of every occasion. That's, I'm trying to draw the best out of
Liz: every occasion. So we're not going to be working in [00:14:00] computer programming accounting.
I
Tim: will not. No, I will not be doing that. I don't even, I, I leave all that to you. I am not. Yeah, yeah. I'm not a Luddite, but I have no interest in tech stuff. Yeah, I'm quite aware. Why, and why is that? And I've told you why that is. Because when the lights go out. All you have is these and this and this.
Liz: Okay.
I will say that this is something that I did attribute to self and that is they are easily distracted by opportunities to chat, joke, and socialize. And I can sometimes be doing something and if I get in conversation or it's easy for to drag me away from something, if I'm engaging. So, it's easy for me to get distracted by
Tim: a conversation.
Mine indicates that I have the same, I have the same capability of being slightly distracted. I tend to be, this was interesting too, tend to strongly, tend, tend strongly to sacrifice the future to the present. So
Liz: here is a [00:15:00] perfect example, I'm so glad you said this because I think. Not that I went to, you know, this, you know, well, I dissected this exam and is exactly what we're doing, but there's a lot of contradiction in this, but in reality, I think our personality contradicts itself sometimes.
And so I said that I, I'd made notes on other other parts of this and I'm like, well, this directly contradicts what I do here. But then if I think about self, I contradict myself all the time, you know,
Tim: sometimes. Thanks. So there are components, there are components to this. We have time to talk about this, right?
So I'm going to bring a couple of things to the table here. In a situation like this, I have shared this with others that I find possess qualities similar to mine militarily, physically, or I should say, athletically, competitively. There are times you will hear me say to burn the boats, literally burn the bridge because you need to put yourself out there and see what you're made of.
And that [00:16:00] is putting yourself in a situation, man, I'm not sure I can. I've been in situations on snow packed mountain ridges where I didn't know if I was going to get home or not. And the only way I got home is I rolled down the mountain. And if I hadn't rolled down the mountain and saved myself all that time, I might have died.
In this situation, that is literally I'm sacrificing my future, excuse me, I'm, yeah, I'm sacrificing a possible future for the, for the present. And that is, I need you to get through this now. Don't think about tomorrow. Look, we got to get through this now.
Liz: Sure. Right. Right. But it's interesting because it was volatility that I think it was, it contradicts the other side of it.
Right. I think it was volatility for you. That's right. That you are. Hmm. Much more prone, prone to, to not, to not take shortcuts in the, but I definitely think it's. You know, we talked I, I always pose different questions to you the other day. I just, I said to you, [00:17:00] what do you value more mercy or justice or justice or mercy?
Oh yeah. That was an excellent question. And just because I was curious of your feedback, like those thought provoking, it's a long discussion. It was, it was a long discussion. Yeah. But what, what we kept saying is there's a lot of relativity to those situations, then just being black and white. Yeah. So
Tim: part of, part of that.
I think has to do in the extroversion part. Part of it, excuse me, is the, is I know several pastors who have had hard times. Pastors don't make a lot of money. Oh, absolutely. But I have, you know, they've come up against hard times and in counsel or confidence with me, I've said, you know what you need to do is take those.
Take those last 10 bucks. Take your, take your whole family out to dinner. Have a really good dinner. That's an ex, that's a, that's an extremely risky thing to do when you got bills over your head. Right. But you know, there's a part of it is that you need to get through today. And sometimes you just need to put something in the win [00:18:00] column to start to spin things different.
Absolutely. So go out, you know, drop all your armor, go out, enjoy yourself knowing that tomorrow morning you get up and you start all over and you know what? Sometimes you start over in a brand new suit of armor. You're, you're good to go, right? It's, it's refreshing. So that's an opinion. That's, that's kind of an opinion and observation.
I like that. Yeah. Thanks. I'm pulling those.
Liz: Individuals are extroverted and conscientious. They are more productive than if they're introverted and conscientious. And I think that's just probably the willingness to explore and be creative and be engaging versus being quiet and, and resistant to. Yeah.
Because that's really introversion is just that piece of like, this is my safe space and there's, I'm not saying there's, you know, that's going to do what it's going to do for you. But I was sharing with you this morning at breakfast that I just noticed a young man that his, his tendency is when he buses the table, he goes right back to a corner and he's very much so in the corner.
He will go bus the table [00:19:00] and he would go right back to the corner. He was, he was not for in. Interacting with the public. No, he
Tim: wasn't. And bless his heart. That's right. We found out that he has an association with another employee. And that employee is probably very much their anchor and safe person.
Yeah. So he, he, he does his little job, I would very much agree. He probably would rather be someplace else, but he does his job, probably does it pretty well. And then he goes right back over into a safe spot and that's where he stays. That's right. Very high, very high in extroversion, highly dominant in social situations.
Yeah. That's you. Particularly if they are low in agreeableness, which I am too. This is what I'm saying. Yeah. So it's highly dominant in social situations. That's okay. I have
Liz: to accept that. Less. Agreeable, and if you're not watching, I'm pointing to the less agreeable extroverts tend to be self centered, something that can be made worse if they are also low in conscientiousness.
Which I'm [00:20:00] not. You are not. So that just barely saves
Tim: you. There's that is something, boy, that's something to do some couch time on. I hadn't, I didn't pay much attention to that. I think they consciously avoided not highlighting them. Those who are politically liberal are slightly less extroverted than conservatives.
Okay.
Liz: Let's do the men to women ratio.
Tim: Men to women. Women are slightly more extroverted than men. The mean percentile for women in general population. It's about 52. Men are about 48. That's why I find it striking that I got a 94. Something to work on. I'll think about that while I do my nails. What's next?
Enthusiasm. Enthusiasm. What'd you get?
Liz: I'm typical actually, or average. I think I'm pretty enthusiastic. What's the number? Oh, I'm sorry. 53.
Tim: 53. Loser. Anyway. Yeah. Oh no, I see it. I got a 64. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Which That's true of me. Individuals [00:21:00] are moderately high in enthusiasm, are somewhat excitable, happy, easier to get to know.
They'll talk to you more often, particularly other people than your typical person. They love
Liz: to laugh. Yes. And my, I like this one where it said they are essentially moderate in their positive emotion. for a person such as myself. And they will talk to people about things and find that they find particularly interesting, but tend to keep quiet more quiet otherwise.
And that is something that I, that resonated for me is that I, I love to ask people questions. And just we'll sit and listen sometimes just, I mean, I was nervous and then sit and listen to the feedback, but but just engage, engage in conversation because I love to. I'm a nerd. I love to learn. Yeah.
Tim: Well, my family and friends and people I'm around in different situations know that this component of extroversion, this is, I'm the guy who will always ask odd [00:22:00] questions and I'll get a rib, you know, I'll get a rib shot. I've asked people in an elder, Hey, how'd you lose your leg? I've asked people on crutches, why are you on crutches?
I've asked people in wheelchairs, how'd you end up in a wheelchair? And people don't ask questions like that. But the thing I have to say about that is those people have a story. And if you genuinely come up and you go, Hey, how did you lose your leg? They'll tell you. They want to tell you. And I'm one of those people.
I don't want people to shrink back from people who are suffering or in pain, especially late in life. It's when we see people get older and they start to. You know, much of what they have mentally, physically starts to melt away. We all shrink back because we become, we become awkward about it. We need to stop doing that.
That's, that's part of what I'm driving for.
Liz: Well, and I think then the stop doing a part is a little challenging because of the simple fact that people are, have different personality types, traits, and attributes. So that's kind of why they do what they do. Yeah. Now, this I really [00:23:00] quickly have to add, I have made a note on this page and that is yet extroversion states the opposite.
So I was pretty excited that this is a part where I see that there's a contradictory from what extroversion stated about me to what enthusiasm is stating about me. So clarify. Let me explain. They like to laugh and joke but not excessively. They don't crave the spotlight. He likes it. Wow. Let's see.
They enjoy parties in moderation. True. True enough. And generally like to be around people. But they like to spend time alone. Ask me yet again. Yeah. They don't warm up immediately to others, particularly in groups, and they can keep their own affairs private. That's where I made the note that in extroversion, it stated that I like that that individual likes to overshare basically and can't keep things to themselves.
So I'm like, this is a complete contradictory to what you just stated. I was an extroversion. Yeah. But again,
Tim: there are components of. It's not a, these, these aren't black and white. These are [00:24:00] components. And in every situation, especially social situations, you know, in every, every situation there's, I don't know what the distribution of people, you know, versus don't know.
I've known him my whole life. I've only known him a few minutes. So that, that comfort level was probably exactly what dictates
Liz: that. Right. But it was just going back to the fact that I think that it, it is interesting. It is. Not just think that the test I'm talking about ourselves We don't intentionally mean to contradict who we are but I think there's so many parts of us that how one part of us unfolds and is represented in a social setting then in you know, a professional setting It's going to obviously look.
Yeah,
Tim: in mine, because mine's rather high, it'd say I have, I would rather spend time with other people than alone. They tend to like parties. They don't, they like to keep people at a distance, which they don't like to keep people at a distance. I don't know. That's probably true. Now there's only two social situations that I know I always enjoy.
And that's the gym and church, [00:25:00] right? That's, that's when I really like to give people hugs and encourage and house family. And those, those things are. But I can't, I can't think of any other social situation, but I guess it's an adaptive skill, right? Those are, those are things developed. Those are as innate, a gift as you could ask for it truly, right?
Even though ranking really high in extroversion, I was crippling shy as a kid. And it's, I just find that strange. Well, and I think
Liz: that just like I shared with you in part one of this, and that is, if we would have taken this test 10, 20 years ago, obviously it's going to represent different. Good point.
Tim: Yeah. If you'd taken a 10 and 20 yeah, that's right.
Liz: Ideally you should be evolving and growing. Ideally, yes. That's why I said
Tim: ideally. Some don't. No? Some peak.
Liz: Yeah, they don't. No, no, no. I wouldn't say peak. I wouldn't say peak. I would say some become stagnant. Okay. Okay. That's just personal perspective.
Tim: People like me like stimulation, excitement, activity, and fun. Enthusiastic people are [00:26:00] gregarious, encouraging, people loving, they tend to be quite positive no matter. About might happen next. Yeah, it's true. It is true. I mean, even, even Live in the moment. Well, it's When you got the time. Sometimes, yeah.
It's, it literally There are times lots of, there's lots Life is suffering. Get used to it. You better learn how to, you know, pick up your cross and carry it. And if you can carry others, good, good for you. That would be part of my part of my shtick, but you know, I think I'm positive about most situations, although there we get into the, just the, just dread of politics and where our society is going, it can really drag you down.
So, you know, let's just, we'll just generally keep it at that. Enthusiasm is not strongly associated, associated with political preference women are typically higher in enthusiasm than men. Men are, the mean percentile for women, [00:27:00] about 55 and men is 45. Which again, I was way over that. Which I find interesting.
Again, I'll talk to my hairstylist about it. What's next?
Liz: You could just email them. It's Because I'm sure
Tim: he'll get right back to you. He won't talk to me after you piss him off, so. I have
Liz: a
Tim: strong appreciation. No, no, I know. We're huge fans. Which, which by the way, we're. We're gonna go
Liz: meet and greet him, so.
We're gonna
Tim: go see the man. That's pretty big. Yeah, this is kind of a big deal for me. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I've ever. What
Liz: is the tour quote? You know, he's always so prolific in his titles, something about searching to talk with God or something. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Something along those lines
Tim: it is another one of his biblically focused talks and I'm sorry, I don't know the title, but yeah, we get to go see him next
Liz: month.
It's brand new. Yeah. So we're onto assertiveness. Assertiveness. How'd you score? Very high. 95%. I get a 98.
Tim: Yeah. I see. That's. I'm not
Liz: competitive at all. Yeah. That's not winning. [00:28:00] That's. Oh, there's losers. Okay. So very assertive people are take charge types. They put their own opinions forward uncommonly strong and they tend to dominate and controls social situations.
Very assertive people can be strikingly influential and captivating. They have the communication style that is often associated with leadership. Yeah. Is that pretty much what you're saying?
Tim: Yeah, I don't have to, I don't have to go very, go back very far in my resume of either personal, private, or professional activity to know that that's the case.
Yeah. I, you know, I, I was a bouncer. I I did a lot of things that were very physical and there's times you have to take care of situations and yeah, the long story. We'll share that at some point, but it's just strange in my life that come from this scrawny little kid and then into an athlete and all of those things.
But, you know, hopefully you can take it, take a look at that. under a [00:29:00] very objective microscope and say, yeah, I did do those things. Good or bad. No regrets, right?
Liz: That's right. That's right. I do like that. This is a good follow up that this is good when they are knowledgeable, competent, and able, but not so good when they aren't.
That is, that is Dr. Peterson at his
Tim: best. Yeah. Well, how would you describe the people who Think that they're knowledgeable, confident, and able when they aren't. What kind of personality type would that be? Well,
Liz: a narcissist? Absolutely. I might come, I mean, I thought, is this a trick question? No,
Tim: no, it should be a grand slam.
I'm like, what? I've known those. I've known those. I've known those. I, I've, you know, I'm in the, I'm on the medical side of the fence. I mean, sometimes in the science side of the fence and sometimes in the political realm of the fence, there are lots of people who think they know a whole lot of stuff and they have no room to be questioned or.
To argue with or, and in fairness [00:30:00] being a little bit too revelatory. I am prob I am completely prepared to be 100% wrong. Be in a discussion. Everybody should be bingo. Everybody should be, everybody should be. Not everybody is. And there ways highway. So,
Liz: so are, is this kind in my reading pretty much along with yours?
Yep, same thing. Okay. And that, what I was gonna say this, there's another impulsive place here for your personality. That they don't wait for others to lead the way, but leap in heedlessly, they can be impulsive in consequence, heedlessly, heedlessly, okay, so, and can act without thinking.
Tim: I don't think that's me, but
Liz: well I do, and then, then just wrap it up.
It's the mean percentile is in general. Women are slightly less assertive than men. Huh. Makes sense. And I was going to hide because I was high, but women are 48 to me. Well, you're a pretty good dude. You're
Tim: a pretty good dude.
Liz: I'm a pretty good dude. And men were 52.
Tim: There you go. Again. Almost twice the men's score.
Kind of strange. An [00:31:00] extremely man and woman. Now I am gonna, I want to, I want to play with this for just a second. The don't wait for others to lead the way. So. You don't. I don't. I don't. And I almost unabashedly do that sometimes. Here is an example. If I'm in a social group, I've been like this almost my whole life.
If I'm in a social group and in the social group, we're all standing with our hands in our pockets. I don't know what to do. What do you want to do? Oh, that's right. If I asked you what you want to do and you go like, I don't know, okay, we're doing what I want to do. Right. And if you guys don't want to come, don't
Liz: come.
You always use with me when you're like, all right, so when I, Hey, what does everybody want to eat? I don't know. I don't know. Okay. We're eating this. It's not to
Tim: be a tyrant. It's that. Oh, sure. It is. It's it to me. Tick tock. We get. Choices our whole lives. And let's not, let's not belabor this. No dilly dally for you sir.
If it's going to be fine food, we do fine food. If it's going to be. Burgers or tacos or whatever. Let's just let's just go. We'll pick it up another time, right? That's right. Okay, [00:32:00]
Liz: so perfect transition point is Neuroticism,
Tim: which surprised me. This is this one surprised me
Liz: this Didn't I don't know if it yeah, I kind of felt like it was okay I don't know this surprised me and yet is a Canada.
Well, just for what was gonna say same thing I was very low 34 34 moderately
Tim: Lou. Yeah, I got 42 which is typical typical or average But this surprised me because I think I would describe myself privately as being a bit neurotic because I don't have a lot of trust. Much of my trust may be, I don't have a lot of confidence in the abilities of others, which makes me a bit neurotic sometimes.
Liz: , yeah. I think
Tim: that's my family. You would agree to when we go, well, if I'm in a restaurant, I don't have my back to the door. I want to know where the exits are. I learned all those things. And while that seems. Kind of silly and neurotic. It's just how I am
Liz: and I [00:33:00] just because in of course My husband being in law enforcement in working with military and law enforcement.
Yeah, it really tracks very well and your former military So it's the
Tim: switcher. It's more, you know, mine is I would argue it's about situational awareness. Absolutely. Absolutely Yeah, so in traveling I want to be near an exit or I you know, I'm I'm planning that I'm planning
Liz: Well, when we were, I was just looking at our flights for our upcoming trip to, I'm going to Kaizen.
Tim: The Kaizen in Florida. Yeah. That's right. Florida in Virginia. There we go. Yeah.
Liz: And I was asking you, which seats would you feel most comfortable in?
Tim: Yeah. See, I don't care. So when you initially asked me. I said, I'll see. No. Okay. So she goes, do you want to, would you be okay sitting in the back?
Immediately
Liz: I knew that was a no. So immediately
Tim: it was a no. But then you know what my process is, is I know I've looked into statistical stuff. No, not a science. It's just, I look into [00:34:00] when planes crash, what things survive, tail sections over the wings. Mercy. I know. I don't mean to be like that. I'm really glad we're on neuroticism.
And then I, and then I quickly go. Okay.
Liz: And I quickly just ignored it and put our seats where I knew they needed to go. So, neuroticism is a measure of general sensitivity to negative emotions such as pain, sadness, irritability, or defensive anger, fear, and anxiety. The two aspects of neuroticism are withdrawal and then volatility.
Yeah. Yeah. So, what'd you, what'd you got there? I have, you know, moderately low, but typical
Tim: or average for me of neuroticism have a balanced view of happiness and sadness past, present, and
Liz: future. Yeah, I, I, I low levels because I'm in the low level section. I tend not to focus on negative elements and anxieties and uncertainties, which is that is, I would definitely say I try and not wrap myself.
And that's interesting because the person I am now, the areas of, of individual growth and pieces that I am now would definitely attune to that, but. In the past, [00:35:00] I would, oh, I'd worry about, oh, all the coulda, shoulda, what is, I don't need that anymore. I'm like, well, it's all done, no worries, so nothing to do about that.
So,
Tim: this next, this next sentence, it's a very short sentence, being typical or average, which I hate being typical or average, sometimes I'm unhappy, I'm anxious and irritable, particularly when I'm facing a genuine problem, but they generally cope well and they don't worry that much.
Liz: And I told you I have seen that in you when we were going through this.
I think that just you know, you're putting together your opening, you know, just even opening the new gym and in all the things you're very particular on your orderliness. . And when it doesn't flow in that format, it, it agitates you. And that disregulates you a little bit. It does.
Tim: Mm-Hmm, It does. I'd like to know.
And
Liz: so shift, I wrote the word truth. It shifts. Yeah. It shifts your mood and stuff like that. Yeah. So I give you grace and you're welcome. Oh, that's nice. Uhhuh. . How about you? They can have periods of times when they're unhappy, anxious or irritable. Particularly when they're facing a serious. problem and they generally [00:36:00] cope well.
They don't worry too much and recover quickly comparative, comparatively quickly with stress. They're pretty good at keeping their heads in a storm and they tend not to make mountains out of molehills. And I definitely, I think there are bigger things, you know, people start exacerbating a situation and a problem.
I'm like, well, it's not that big a deal. And then that, so I really agreed with that. They tend to have higher levels of self esteem, particularly those that are also Above ravaging you too. Yeah
Tim: Well, I'm not particularly at risk for developing anxiety disorders.
Liz: Sure So I do think that I wanted I don't want to rattle over that too quickly because I think that for the mental health component They are relatively low risk for developing right ID disorders and depression, right?
So I thought that was yeah
Tim: I would I would tend to say I'm not as more in alignment with the description that's given In the, in the past, it, it said that typically balanced with happiness, sadness, you're pretty even keeled about your past, present, future. I think that's pretty true. I [00:37:00] don't, it's not always me and I don't dread this.
I'm not overly enthusiastic or embellish, you know. Elements of my life. In fact, there, there's components of that, that, you know, I've been, I've been accused of being kind of cold about some different situations, but again, militarily life expectance for people like us, I think I'm very realistic, right?
Just we just need to press on this isn't the end of the world we press on
Liz: and that's a you know This is part aspect of a personality can be really difficult for other individuals who have higher levels of it This is exactly why we're talking about it's interesting for you know friendships and partnerships to In intimate partnerships to take this exam and kind of evaluate.
Hey, maybe this is kind of we buttheads here. Oh, yeah because you're higher in this and I'm lower in this. And so it gives you information to be able to have common ground with someone else. Yeah. And I think that's great within any type of partnership, especially [00:38:00] intimate partner, which we talked about that there is a button on there to do one where you can collaborate with your partner and take the exam together.
But I do think that. Some of these things sound, oh, well, this person is pretty even keeled. Well, that could drive somebody else really nuts. Yeah,
Tim: well, I think the cool calm disposition that comes, that's military training mostly. But it's also, you know, in times of firefight and flight or flight, you need to be able to keep your cool.
Having been in situations, you know, face to face where people plan to do you harm, you have to keep your head about stuff like that. But more to the general public is that when you face these issues that can be maybe life altering, you know, maybe the decisions you make. Really impact the welfare of someone you love.
I've had power of attorney over loved ones who I've been in loved ones or people who are close to and give advice to them with this very same caveat that I would do, I would give you the best advice. I would give my most [00:39:00] loving person. I would give to a stranger. I would do no harm to that. My makeup, but quite frankly, is you need a calm head in the room.
Everybody's losing their, you know what you need to be relatively calm about that. I just think that's
Liz: important. And I think this is, you know, something that I, I often see in, in we have encourage the kind of mentality in our society around using Dr. Google. And that is moderately low levels of neuroticism are associated with less concern about mental, if I can talk, and physical health, if you're a physician in emergency room visits and a lower than average degree of, you know, just concern around your basically yourself.
And I'm actually, that can be a concerning thing if you're like, ignore something too long. Sure. Like, oh, it's fine. It's fine. What's denial? Well, yeah, so that too, but also not worrying too much about like, I have this little bump, so this must be something. And so, and then I go to Dr. Google and then I go, yeah, all the things.
Yeah. And well, I call it Dr. [00:40:00] Google because everyone goes down all these different rabbit holes with that. And it's so unhealthy for an individual because that's, that is not, well, no, I caught it. You know, a medical article about, well, it, you're absolutely not medically trained,
Tim: but you know, I, what I find interesting.
So genera generationally, it's almost like this family shared disease plan. Well, my sister in law had that. Oh, well then that's what you have for sure.
Liz: Well, it's because of the genetic, well, it's a genetic component.
Tim: It's not just that my sister's a really best friend. She had one. That's what their dog died of.
Oh, well, that's what your dog will die of. No, that's not how that works, but that's hard to talk people out of. Very true. What do you got? People with average levels of neuroticism appear to neither seek out or avoid conflict or problems. They're interested in security, but they do handle recreational, career, financial, and social situations where the possibility of loss is higher.
I tend to think that's true. I, [00:41:00] I am an entrepreneur. I've, I've done this a long time. I love taking on new risks, and I, it was my son who literally pointed out to me that I'm not like this person. I'm not like this person. I, I take risks, other people don't, but I don't, it's not foolish. It's just that I think that all the, I think that if I were to.
Weigh it the way it's heavily on my side, so I'll take the risk. Sure. Right. This is a reasonable strategy and generally dangerous in uncertain times.
Liz: Yeah. True. So, this. little section. I'm pretty sure you have it as well. Yeah. So I'm going to read that paragraph. Females tend to be higher in neuroticism than males.
So I'm kind of under the bar there. The typical woman is higher in neuroticism than 60 percent of the general population of men and women combined. In part, this may be why women report more unhappiness in their relationships at work in school and with their health than men on average and why women initiate 70 percent of all divorces.
Yeah. So I think that means [00:42:00] that it's kind of like that trailing thought that this must be this and this month, these, you know, and that, you know, again, jumping to conclusions of. Yeah, whatever might
Tim: be. So I'd like to follow these on the street polls and surveys and questionnaires. They're really interesting.
They, they're very revealing about our society. Anyway, interviewer asks a man if you could have 80 percent of all of the qualities you've ever looked for in a woman, would you be happy across the board? Absolutely. Every man said yes. And you asked that same question of women. Almost every single woman said no.
80 percent is not enough. See, so even though it's informal, it's just a questionnaire and informal poll. One version, men seem to be more capable or willing to sacrifice to take on, whereas women say, no, those flaws are enough that don't make you financially secure. Good potential for mating for kids, whatever.
Now this is obviously my little armchair quarterbacking here, but when I see those things, I find [00:43:00] that amazing. Right?
Liz: Well, and I find that with reason and understanding because these individuals, these young women that are being pulled have had experiences in their life of insecure and unstable men that has represented that a percentage of a person, a percentage of a man specifically equate to this.
Ability to be strong and and compassionate and caring and a protector. Well, i'm going to need a higher percentage of that because my experience my trauma my you know life happenings all the things have told me I need a higher level Potentially that's one avenue. I wouldn't be very clear The other side of that is societal belief systems of like, this is what you deserve there because you think so therefore, therefore you should have it, which is ridiculous entitlement, the entitlement is right.
So I think there's a, there's some combination things going on there of, I can see a woman saying, I need the highest percentage of a man I could get because I need to make sure those faults that they're going to be, I can. I [00:44:00] can manage those and have those, but then there's still these really strong abilities that they're going to be able to come in and have all these positive
Tim: attributes.
Good point. That, that, those types of those types of surveys on the street, obviously it would be interesting to see how that would question would pose. Men and women at age 20, at age 30, at age 50, at age 60, , I would almost guarantee, with a great, a high deal of certainty, women in their 50s and 60s see different components of a man now for companionship.
Oh,
Liz: 100%.
Tim: More than their. Sorry. Yeah. More than the money and the wealth, they're looking more for security and consistency and stuff like that. So,
Liz: yeah. Well, I think age and time and experience, all those things play significant factors. Sure. So moving right along, we're on to withdrawal. Withdrawal. Yeah. And what did it state about withdrawal is an aspect of neuroticism.
What'd you score? And I got a 57. I'm kind of typical or average. And what are you? I hit a 12. Let's [00:45:00] just talk about the average individual, such as
Tim: myself. I find that. Bizarre. Anyway, most of the people in this described differently than me, far more than me. So you go with your
Liz: first. Individuals average in withdrawal may occasionally suffer from anticipatory anxiety, but are generally not impeded by it.
They can handle news, uncertain, unexpected, or threatening complex situations quite well. That does describe me. They are not likely to avoid or withdraw in the face of the unknown and the unexpected. I'm like, bring
Tim: it on. Yeah. So if the room were full, if the room were full of 87 or a hundred people, 87 people, I'd be the last 12 standing.
So
Liz: tell me about yourself last
Tim: 12. That's right. Final, the big 12. Okay. So individuals low and withdrawal rarely suffer from, or are impeded by anticipatory Anxiety. They can handle new uncertain, unexpected, threatening, and complex [00:46:00] situations well. And so similar to They are substantially less likely to avoid a withdrawal from a face to face conflict, unknown, or unexpected.
I happen to agree. I think it was, I think it was, I think I miss, I think I had misconceptions, but you're all descriptor worse. I think so too. Right, but according to this, it's not a bad thing. It's, it's not a bad thing. None of these are a bad thing. No, they're not, and they're not, and they're just profile, you know, these are These are our little freckles.
They are a little in our complex, yeah, little specks of us, people low levels withdrawal tend not to feel sad, lone, lonesomeness or disappointed or grief stricken. And then if they are, it's doesn't
Liz: last very long. Okay. That's your answer. Same lane for me. Yeah.
Tim: That's true for me. Even when actually hurt, frightened or anxious, they recover easily.
That's true too. I don't, I don't ponder my wounds too long and rub
Liz: some [00:47:00] dirt in it. I think that kind of goes back to the neuroticism of not worrying about things too much. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So, cause this is an aspect of neuroticism. So there you go. Yeah.
Tim: There's, I think withdrawal has to do, you know, this may.
Dispassionately be the wrong way to describe it. It's kind of your mental toughness, you know, it's just suck it up buttercup and move on. And not everybody has that. Again, this is one of those qualities where people like, oh man, you're, you're a heartless. And I've, I have been, yes, you have been told. Yeah, I know.
I know. I know. I know. Annie, those who are liberal, particularly politically are slightly higher. Right. So if you tend to be liberal, you're usually higher in withdrawal. Women are typically higher in withdrawal than men. They follow around the 60 points and you're supposed to have 30 something you were you were midline on that one.
It
Liz: was typical. I was 40. I don't know. And I got me. Yeah. I was, I was 57.
Tim: 57. Yeah. So you're, you're, you're very close.
Liz: I'm an average woman.
Tim: You're an average woman. All right. I'm an average woman. I again have [00:48:00] missed the mark. Yet again.
Liz: So one part I did think that was interesting that you didn't state, and that's technically withdrawal has been associated with activity in the brain systems that regulate passive avoidance.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. You know, that's a good point. You
Liz: brought that up. You're very welcome. That's why I'm here. That's
Tim: a good point.
Liz: Read that one more time. Okay. Typically, excuse me. Technically, I said the wrong word. Yeah. Technically, withdrawal has been associated with activity in the brain systems that regulate passive.
Tim: Avoidance. Hmm. That regulate passive avoidance. Maybe there's not as much discussion there as I thought. It's a little nugget of information. People with low levels of withdrawal are not warriors. Not warriors. They're not warriors. Twist warriors. I don't worry too much about stuff. It is what it is. You gotta fix it.
Fix it. Yeah. Work harder. Whatever. Yeah. The other describing point or aspect of that is volatility. I got a 77 which puts me on an early high. What'd [00:49:00] you get? Holy smokes. Holy smokes. Look at you. You,
Liz: you are low in vol, vol, volatility. I am at a moderately low. 17.
Tim: Yes. So,
Liz: so we're gonna have some, some big differences here.
Yeah. So go ahead and tell me about
Tim: yourself. So first of all, the descriptor, I'll, I'll read mine first. So I'm relatively high, or I'm moderately high. In volatility, volatility is an aspect of neuroticism. The other aspect is of neuroticism is withdrawal. I'm of the 77th percentile, so I would be at the high, at the at the top end of a hundred people standing in a room.
Individuals moderately high in volatility tend to be somewhat in their mood. They can be more irritable. Then your typical person feeling disappointment, frustration, pain, social isolation somewhat more easily. I tend to agree.
Liz: I tend to agree with that analysis of you completely.
Tim: I'm my father's [00:50:00] son. I am my father's son.
Well,
Liz: and the low. Volatility. Yeah. Go ahead. Pretty stable folks over here. Predictable moods. Okay. They are not irritable and feel much less disappointment and frustration and pain and loneliness because I'm an overall pretty cool dude. Okay. People find them easy. Tell me where that's written.
Right here. It's right here. People find them easy to get along with and can often relax around them. And I've had a lot of compliments that, have you seen a relaxer on Liz? Well,
Tim: that's good for the field of work you're in probably
Liz: checks out.
Tim: Yeah. Yeah. On, on my end, because I'm a moderately high somewhat are more likely to act out verbally, express their frustration, disappointment, or irritation when stirred up or upset or angry or irritated, they can take longer to calm down.
And more argumentative than the average and can lose their, and can lose their composure. They can be sometimes provocative in [00:51:00] a dispute. So just two aspects there. I don't know if it just makes me uncomfortable if they're actual, actually true. I don't think that I'm very, I don't typically, it's funny how we get defensive of these things we don't like, right?
But I don't typically think I'm provocative in a dispute. Do I challenge people is that provocation? I don't know I suppose. Do I lose my composure? You have told me that you can see that something's bothering you. Right. So that's, and yeah, and I do at times. I know that I don't wear on my face.
I don't wear that mask very well when I am disappointed or upset or frustration. I, I can get, I can have resting bitch face. You don't have
Liz: a great poker face. I don't have a lot of poker face. Just so you know, neither does your energy because your energy goes, it just tanks real low, real fast. And I'm like, Oh, well, you're a joy to be around.
Tim: Anyway, send flowers to
Liz: go ahead. All right. Back to what am I? I'm low. You're welcome. Back to the low people. They [00:52:00] rarely express their frustration, disappointment, and irritability and appear reasonable when they do so. And even on rare occasions they become stirred up, upset, angry, irritated, they can calm down quickly.
They are much less argumentative than the average and rarely lose their composure. Well, you and I have had, you know, I would say challenging conversations. Would you say that describes me? Oh, yeah.
Tim: Yeah, it does. It does. Mine, mine. I think that goes with mine. It does. It does. And in fact, it's part of that volatile people tend to get upset if something bad does happen.
Now that stands out in my life very much so, whether it's me or others, when I see things go bad, I am, I get worked up and I, the interesting thing is, and it doesn't happen too much, but when I used to fight, even after fighting, even if that career was way behind me, I could sit on the couch and watch boxing matches and I'd sweat like a pig.
Right. I, things are going, I don't like this. I don't, I don't like the way this is happening. My guy's getting [00:53:00] beat or whatever. Right. But the other is technically volatility has been associated with an activity of the brainstem that regulates fight, flight, freeze. And I would say fear. So we've had conversations about whether they mentioned in there that volatility can be expressed by people such as myself.
Then when situations go bad. Now, I will say that volatility, not a disclaimer, but volatility is that aspect in leadership that we are responsible for everybody in our charge. If it's just from your perspective, from my perspective. As an entrepreneur or if I were literally had people in my charge to care for if something went bad for them I think my my dad will hopefully be watching us I know he will and then I have made this I've made this Conclusion in my own life is that my dad god love you Well, it's a bit of a hothead when he was younger and when things go [00:54:00] wrong My dad would get mad first and it took me a long time to understand, well, Hey, I got all skinned up and bruised.
How about a kiss on the forehead? That wasn't his MOS, right? That's not his, that's not what he's supposed to do. He's supposed to protect you. And that anger and volatility is because he's scared. That's where they come from. I have that. I still have that today. Yes, you do. And that is that, that's why I plugged that in his fear.
It's not just a fight or flight. It's fear. And when you, when you sort through that anger and the volatility it has to do with, I'm, you know, I really don't mean to act like that. It's almost a. This thing that I told you not to do that instead of, Oh my gosh, are you
Liz: okay?
And I would go back to something that Dr.
Peterson talks about managing ourselves and managing the monsters, managing the pieces of us. He doesn't really talk about that. I'm saying that, but he talks about men managing the monsters, is managing what you already know. So you, you are aware of these pieces about yourself. Do, [00:55:00] are they favorable for me or do I have to address them from time to time or.
Yeah. So one of the things I was going to ask you is Dr. Caldwell, do you, who do you think rate higher in volatility?
Tim: I would definitely say it's men. Well,
Liz: that's shocking. You are correct. It is men. Men are 57. 5. Oh, wait. Yes. Oh, women. Women are higher in volatility than men. Oh, I just read that wrong.
Oh. Ah, breaking news. Oh. I read that wrong. Volatility is higher. Women are higher in volatility than men. Yes. Women is 57. 5 and men are 42. 5. So. May I, may I change my answer? You may not. It's too late.
Tim: After thinking through that, after thinking through that, emotionally, emotionally, women would be higher in volatility because they Don't go after us our emotions.
Well, it's just how we are. We don't have any. Men are cold hearted bastards and women go ahead. Go ahead. What's next?
Liz: Openness moving on to openness. Yes, clearly you manage yourself over there quite. Well, that's my order orderliness openness I was moderately high [00:56:00] of 68 percent Is you are moderately high in openness, which is primarily a dimension of creativity artistic interest in intellect intelligence particularly verbal intelligence in the big five personality trait It's talking about the model openness is a measure of interest in novelty, art, like, literature, abstract thinking, philosophy, as well as sensitivity to aesthetics, emotions, and beauty.
Yeah.
Tim: I got, I got the same thing. What did you score? A 68. What'd you get? I got a 95.
Liz: You, you just act like you. Anyway. What you got? Do you got the people with moderately high? Pretty much
Tim: superhuman. Anyway, people with very high levels of openness are extremely likely to be characterized by others as uncommonly smart, creative, exploratory, intelligent, and visionary.
Oh my, that's
Liz: quite Try
Tim: living up to that. Oh, yikes. I will continue only, only quickly because in every one of these, I said, yes, yes, yes. Now it takes a bit of I'm trying to [00:57:00] be modest, trying to be humble, but yeah, man, that sounds like me. Well, I'm not trying to paint myself as a superhero, right? Where do I hang my cape?
This, this, those are things I see that I, I think I possess. And I think it's one of those things that I lean into too, right? I'm strikingly interested in learning. Consistently acquiring new abilities and skills. Yes. Yes. Yes. I love that kind of stuff. Curious and exploratory, interested in abstract thinking, philosophy, meanings, and beliefs of systems and ideologies.
I love all that. Seek out cultural events, movies, concerts. Not, not, not really, but I really do love galleries. I love art shows. I love, I love to meet people who have that. Who have that vein of creativity. You like to meet people. Yeah, I do. But I'm really creative people. That's amazing. We just, this morning, we were just having breakfast and I showed Liz, this guy who has this new mechanism for pedaling bikes, and I was all over that.
Right. So you're super excited. It's super exciting because I can see as an engineer, how that works. But then I explained to you why [00:58:00] that works so well, and this is how I'd make it better as soon as I saw his thing, which he's made this, he's probably doubled the output. Of the ability to do what he does, but I'm making it better already.
Right. Anyway, anyway, I'm usually likely to enjoy writing even if I'm driven to work, even if it's something mandatory, I do enjoy writing. They enjoy complex, abstract ideas, love to confront and solve complex and abstract problems, multiple dimensional problems. Likely to be prolific readers. I'm not a strong reader, but I do consume a lot of information.
They are unusually wide range and interests. I'm not going to bore you with all of these things because I am just so amazing. According to this, people are high and openness can be, can see old things in strikingly new ways, which I think I do. So.
Liz: I do. You just, you just described it. I know. I know. You literally just described it.
Yeah. That's exactly what you did this morning.
Tim: They can formulate any single problem into uncommonly diverse [00:59:00] ranges. I can. I do. I try to problem solve on many different, on, we're using lateral logic, not, not just linear logic. So they continually seek change somewhat, but I am pretty much a creature of habit too.
Often like to make things better, but also for the, don't change for the sake of change. Not well adapted to do and, and do not do well with others in situations. True. I, I am, I, I am what I am. I don't necessarily like to do that. That speaks to my choices in athletic activities and adventures and all that stuff.
I'd like to do a lot of sync stuff on myself. Don't fit well in the, in the bottom of hierarchies. No, I don't. I'm uncommonly ill suited for entry level reposition. Positions. That's true. I don't, I don't think that I have to be at the top, but I have a tough time being at the bottom. Whatever. Very radical thinkers like to shake things up, particularly if they're disagreeable.
Liz: Mine said just for a healing moment [01:00:00] getting off of that pedestal. I'm a creative thinker. And it does say, I do like to shake things up a little bit, but that's also because I like to Think outside the box and find different ways and avenues and I always think there's more. I mean, I guess that's not a good terminology There's more than one way.
Yeah, there is but it's not always goodness. It's just keeps going on I know this is
Tim: a long way. This was quite long. This one in here says that I'm more likely to be the rebel I'm more likely to be the revelatory revolutionary rebel. I'm very high in openness and entrepreneurial skills, smart, creative, interested in creating new things, ventures.
Liz: Churchill. Yeah. There's just, this is, yeah, this one has a lot of, yeah, I think the the entrepreneurial spirit with it really resonated for both you and I, and just leadership roles and things of that nature. I mean, this is, this one's just quite. Long and Mm-Hmm. It is long tend to be underachievers.
Oh, okay. I see. Open, conscientious people tend to be underachievers, [01:01:00] but in this category for women and men differ a little in openness at their trait level. And it didn't really say no, it doesn't. There are differences in their aspects of levels, so there's not a number for this one.
Tim: Yeah. That's interesting.
That's interesting. Yeah. No real score
Liz: for that.
Tim: No real score. Those who are liberal politically are very much likely to be high in openness. I can, I can say that I've made the, I've made the very rough conclusion that most businesses are started by people who are more creative on the liberal side, but they're run very much by people who are more.
Disciplined on the conservative side. Sure. Yeah. I think it just takes that.
Liz: So, we're rounding down with, we've got intellect left and we're going to kind of get through this pretty quickly. And then we have a sense. Almost done. So we're going to wrap that up intellect. Again, we want to recall that this is not an IQ exam or a test of that ability, though I did score at an 82 in UConn.
Tim: 86. Oh. Yes. Wow. Not [01:02:00] competitive, are you? No, I'm not competitive. Yeah. IQ is a measure of processing speed, verbal ability, working memory, problem solving. Yeah. True enough.
Liz: This kind of just reflects a little bit what we were just talking about. People high in intellect are quite interested in ideas and abstract concepts.
They enjoy being confronted with novel information when it's complex, which is true. I like learning new things. I think that's been and I, I shared that with you a kickback on my personality. Sometimes I almost sound antagonizing when I'm gathering more information and it can come off maybe assertive, outwardly aggressive and maybe belittling or judging.
And I'm like, actually, I'm just trying to gather more information because I'm curious. And that I think tends to do me unfavorable response from some people and I've noticed I'm like, oh no, you're misreading. I'm not I'm judging you. I'm trying to get more information from you. They are substantially more curious and exploratory than average and frequently like to tackle and solve problems.
They will actively engage in, seek out and initiate, [01:03:00] initiate issue oriented discussions and are likely to read and think about and want to discuss the idea idea centered books. I mean, so just a lot of curiosity is what I read here and that I do feel like really reads well for me. So yeah. What is your
Tim: perspective?
Yeah. Oh, no, no, no. Mine reads the same way. I happen to agree with everything that it does to clarify that aspect. They have a wide vocabulary, actively enjoy learning new things, often find and generate novel or creative concepts. I think that's true. People high in intellect find complex, rapidly changing occupations to their knowledge will generally be well suited for them.
So they find these things that are. evolving or changing. Oh, yeah, I want to. I want to be in this case. It's not technology, but sometimes it is. How does that thing work? Hey, I made an improvement here. They're, they really do like to look at it. Well,
Liz: and I, in reading that it makes me recall and briefly that when I was sharing with you about all my errands in the fire, I'm like, oh, I'm doing this and then I'm doing this.
And by the way, I've decided to do this and taking this on. [01:04:00] And I'm like, cause I have time for all of these things. But that is kind of the dynamic I have. Yeah.
Tim: So here's a note. We throw in the caveat. This has nothing to do with IQ.
Liz: Yeah. And it's important because I'm sure what we're about to, you're about to state is going to really ruffle feathers.
Tim: Women are lower than men in intellect. Now that is probably a difference in interests. People of high intellect compared to aesthetics are more likely to prefer the sciences than to art. Right. So, that's the, that's the gender attraction, right? Men, males, are more attracted to spatial concepts, mechanical workings, women are more attractive to people and their social interactions.
That nutshell. That's very much a nutshell. I'm very high. I do okay. Anyway. Aesthetics? Yes. 80. I got a 95.
Liz: I got a 44. So, yeah, I'm typical or average. So what can I [01:05:00] say? Yeah. And we'll briefly go over this and that is an aspect of openness is, and I don't want to, what did you, the takeaway from this? Yeah.
The takeaway is generally
Tim: speaking, a person's aesthetic score reflects their creative, their creative, People and where they are with high aesthetics, love for beauty. I do. Yeah. I that's very much sure. I love, I have a very love, love for beauty in all aspects. It's, I think it's fascinating. They require an outlet for their creative ability.
If they cannot or they cannot thrive. I think that's true. Even in the entrepreneurial thing. There are times where an entrepreneur might feel like he's getting bogged down and needs another something. And that's, that's that. Are you a strong finisher? Are you a strong starter? That's just how people are, right?
Yeah. They very much like to collect things now and then to point out an obsession. Okay. That's me. I know that's kind of weird, but because I like to create art, if there's three or more of anything, well, that's a collection. So, I do. And then over time I go, okay, but I feel that [01:06:00] away. But I have, I do have, I don't think I'm much of a daydreamer, but I do see things in things.
I can't see a sculpture in the marble sometimes uncommonly affected my music. That is true of my life. Music touches me quite, quite, quite easily. How about you?
Liz: All the all very similar. We're on the same page right now. They tend to be quite stable or reasonably conventional, particularly if you're also average or above average in conscientiousness, at least moderate levels of creativity tend to be necessary for entrepreneur, entrepreneurial success and prove comparatively useful for the top hierarchies, even in very conservative occupations, such as banking, accounting, economic.
Things of that nature. Yeah. Women are higher in aesthetics than men. And the mean for this would be women are at 56. 5 and men are 44.
Tim: Yeah. Note to mine is I can be very impractical and flaggy and extremely difficult to transform creative creativity into money. Yeah, that's pretty true. [01:07:00] That's kind of true in the entrepreneurial spirit.
I remember when I, when I first got started into, when I first got started into bodybuilding, I thought that would be my career. I can remember at different times and in different times, but situations are very, very common sitting at my oldest brother's table and sitting at my own dinner table with my father and going, how are you going to make, how are you gonna make money with barbells?
Right? You can't eat a barbell. Yeah. True. But your passion becomes your business, right? Absolutely. Yeah. That's how that works.
Liz: This was fun. This is interesting. There's a lot of work, but I like that. I always prefer that everyone like, comment, and give us your feedback. Go in and take understandmyself. com.
It's there. 995. And yes, I am plugging for Dr. Peterson because also I am a fan and and, and upon, as we've, as you, as I can talk, as you have listened, there's more where it sinks into your thought process, your reflective thought process of sound like, ah, that actually might [01:08:00] be true more than I want.
I'm going to hang on to mine. Well, perhaps you should.
Tim: Oh, what's that supposed to mean?
Liz: thank you for listening. We appreciate you. Liz. Thanks
Tim: for having you guys take care of yourself.
Liz: And always be compassionate to yourself.
Tim: Show some grace. Yeah. Thanks guys. Talk to you later.