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Authentic, Authoritative, Unapologetic ServiceNow commentary by Cory "CJ" Wesley and Robert "The Duke" Fedoruk
CJ: we're live.
Whenever you're ready.
Duke: I was about to tell this awful
story about how these spiders jumped
me while I was walking my dog.
I walked through one of those,
early morning nets, you know,
where they go, like they go
like four or five feet across.
CJ: Yep.
Duke: I was like, what the heck?
And I like got the web outta my face.
I'm like, that's gross.
And I looked down there, it was just
like four or five, and I'm just like,
just crawling all over my tummy.
I'm just like, ah, five 30 in the
morning and I'm flailing my arms
and screaming in the middle of the.
CJ: Only one way out of this
I must light myself on fire.
Duke: Yes.
It's sad, but it's the
only way to be sure.
Okay.
We're leaving that one in.
What else are we talking about today?
CJ: All right.
Today, duke, , we're gonna do a
requirements gathering, , episode.
, you are thinking about building a new app.
Duke: I am.
And.
The app is about a coaching
program that I do, and so I'm
just gonna shamelessly pitch.
, I've been, in a lot of conversations
with a lot of people who have gone
through a lot of bootcamps and I am
sick and tired of how many people
are falling through the cracks.
Great people out there, great skills.
They just haven't got
enough practical experience.
So I've designed my own
custom training program.
Um, custom, no.
Wait, no.
I configured a training program, right.
Customization bad.
Configured good,
CJ: Nice
, Duke: I've made this new training program.
My trial run was three people.
They were all hired before it ended,
and I'm now in my, second session.
We're not even halfway yet,
so nobody's been hired.
, but we've got 15 people and I
wanna , keep scaling from there.
And so if you're tired of the status
quo, if you wanna go to a place that's
gonna teach you the concepts deep
and then give you legit work that
you can cut your teeth on, , reach
out to me at Rob at the Duke Digital
and, , see if you can join cohort three.
Unfortunately, this is North
America only, but uh, I'd.
CJ: Nice.
All right, duke.
Unlike a lot of people right, who
complain about the status quo, complain
about, , problems that, that exist
and you complained about it then
when, and did something about it.
So that's pretty cool.
Duke: I appreciate that, brother.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Duke: we hadn't talked about
it together for like a hundred
something times though, so.
CJ: well, I know, right?
But that's my point.
We did talk about it a hundred some
times and boom, now you're doing it.
And really, , excited for all the
people you've helped get gigs and
people you will be helping getting
gigs because I think this is important.
, Obviously, right.
I'm affiliated with the ServiceNow
rise up initiative, right?
There's pushing like a similar thing,
? Just to get more people, into this field,
getting them skilled up in ways like
you are doing right that will make them
good ServiceNow resources in the future.
So,
, Duke: I definitely don't wanna
take anything from rise up.
And I, I'd like to say that I'm aligned
from the outside, like same goal,
but just a way different strategy.
And I happen to believe that
my strategy's better and I'm
not gonna apologize about that.
CJ: And you should, right.
Like what's the point in doing it if you
don't think you're doing it the best?
I think the goals are, are very
much aligned at the end of the day.
Both systems are trying to get
more people into the ecosystem.
Duke: Okay,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: let me, let me just be right up
front that, building a new system sucks.
, it just sucks.
I'm doing a ton of stuff that's
just seat of my pants, and so
like, you're roleplaying the
requirements gather, right?
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
, I personally love seat of the
pants, ? , that's where a lot
of the creativity comes from.
But now that you've been doing this, , a
cohort and a half I anticipate that
you've, , kinda out some of the bugs
and you're now looking to formalize
a little bit of what you're doing.
Duke: Yeah, there's a lot of
information I want to capture, right?
And it helps me, it helps me decisions,
it helps me keep on top of stuff.
It makes me, it helps
me do more intelligent.
, use of my time.
And so I find , there's a lot of details
that I forget and there's a lot of details
that I spend time looking for in email,
and I've created two or three different.
Excel sheets to help with that.
But I, I'll tell you, I'm dealing
a ton with attachments as well.
, and , I never realized how bad
searching through email is until I
started searching for attachments.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: whoa.
Anyway,
CJ: And if you're not using
something like Google, then it's,
and then the search is even worse.
Duke: Right.
So where do you wanna start, man?
CJ: I mean, we've
already started actually.
See, that's the great thing,
that's the great thing about doing
, requirements gathering, which is
my f preferred style anyway, right?
Is that now I know you've got information
that you need to capture, that you're
dealing with a lot of attachments and
that you've tried to do this, , several
times already through both email
and Excel spreadsheets, we've got
a solid base on things that you've
tried to do and a solid base on, at
least at the beginning of a solid base
on what you're trying to accomplish.
So when you say info that you're
trying to capture, , let's go
ahead , and categorize that, right?
what are you trying, what
are you trying to store?
How are you going to use it?
Duke: Okay.
Well maybe we start at
the beginning, right?
And
CJ: Oh, man, we're, we're
already at the beginning.
We're starting in
Duke: No, but I mean, the
beginning of my process.
So , planning a cohort, Because the
one thing my competition has over
me is they already have established
businesses around it, right?
And they have, they have full-time
staff that can deal with the
administrative logistics, right?
And so it's hard for me to just
say it starts at this date.
It runs these times.
And if you don't like
it, It's not for you.
Um, so when I first started out, I'm like,
I have to get a critical mass of interest
and then make the start date and the,
coaching times reasonably aligned, right?
And so I was putting feelers out and
saying , who's interested, and so , think
about this as your sales pipeline.
I don't even have that.
And so that information's
all stuck in LinkedIn.
It's stuck in email,
it's stuck in wherever.
CJ: Oh, I get you.
You don't have a top of a funnel,
Duke: yeah, I don't
have who's in the pipe?
CJ: right?
Duke: And we do have
conversations along the way.
Some people just decide it's not for them.
Right.
Most of them decide.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I don't have anything to track that.
So of course I pull out Excel
and , it's just name email.
Where did they confirm Via, so
CJ: email source.
Yeah.
Duke: source, it was, was it
LinkedIn, email, like whatever.
. Then I have an acid test interest.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Like some people are like,
Hmm, maybe we should talk about that.
So , I won't give it an acid test of true,
but somebody, I have like a legit phone
call about it and they just say, okay,
, I gotta talk to my spouse or whatever.
I put those as like a, as a more
warm, it's like a, a like a lead
warmth, I guess you could say.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah.
Qualifying ease.
Yeah,
Duke: Yeah.
Okay.
Then I track if they'd been through
another program in which program.
So I've got like next Gen M T B F or
either of those, that's not those.
, I get a lot of interest outside in
North America, so I also track if
you're non N A M R, where are you?
CJ: As
Duke: Like think there's a few people in
the UK that I might let into the next one.
CJ: Yeah, but it's probably a lot
harder like with a, an pack given
the way , the time zones align.
Okay.
Duke: And then I have some check boxes
for if they object is the objection,
financial timeline or something else,
like they already have a job or something.
CJ: Got it.
So objection and then Objection, reason.
Duke: Yeah.
, I imagine it being like a choice.
Objection, reason.
CJ: Oh, okay.
Got it.
Yeah.
Like just a, a selection.
Okay.
Duke: yeah, so it's none.
If it is none.
And it is something, if it is something.
CJ: Right.
Makes sense.
Duke: So then it's just like
all the logistics of, did I
actually send them an invite?
, and when I give them the invite, I
send them like a contract, via, um,
CJ: Oh, DocuSign.
Duke: Mm-hmm.
So I send everybody, so I get keep track
is of , who's, , submitted a contract,
CJ: Right.
Did you invite them at the, and did
you send a contract and have they Yeah.
Have they signed it now?
Is any of this, oh, I'm sorry.
Keep going.
Duke: Is any of this what.
CJ: I was gonna ask, uh, is any
of this automated at this point?
Oh, is this all you?
Uh, manually by ticking
Duke: It's all me.
Like, whenever I, whenever like, um,
when I, uh, DocuSign will send me an
email back saying like, this contract's
been signed, which it is dumb.
It says this contract has been
signed, but nowhere in there
does it say who signed it.
You literally gotta go back to
the platform and like look to see
which ones are signed and which
is like a five step process.
I hate it.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: it.
CJ: Yeah, no, that, that
sounds pretty, pretty gruesome.
Duke: But I do that.
Then I ask them to submit like little tiny
bios and I check to see if they did that.
I asked 'em to send me their
resume as it is right now.
Right.
So I asked 'em to send me that.
It's like who's done it?
But also where is the darn thing?
'cause five weeks later I want
to pull out an example of how to
write something in a resume, or
I'm doing somebody's resume review.
Where is it?
Is it an email?
Did I put it in my resume folder?
CJ: Right.
Duke: So there's a lot of just pulling
pieces of paper into, physical folders.
CJ: Got it.
, I mean, this is ground zero for what
ServiceNow is good for, this is taking
work that exists manually, offline
and inside of Excel spreadsheets.
and there's a process here, right?
, there's a workflow, , and then taking
that and translating it into digital.
And making it move easier so that
, you can gain back like, you know,
80% of your time on this thing.
Duke: Right.
CJ: Alright, so, oh, keep going.
Duke: well, I was just going to start
into the next thing, but do you have quick
questions about the pipeline process?
CJ: Uh, no, I think I got the
pipeline process down right?
Like I got a bunch of information
that you're collecting and then you've
got some things that you're sending
out , and that you're waiting on
returns , for, and you wanna track the
process of all on all of those things.
That makes a lot of sense.
, the question, and the next question I have
is, , is this like a, is this a app that
only , you use or is this, does it have
a self , service portion of it as well?
Duke: I think at the start it would just
be handy to have a place where like user,
like , the stuff I collect from people
and all the different true falses was in
somewhere where there were unique records
CJ: So , like a checklist that
you go through while you're
having a call with someone.
Duke: Yeah, it could be checklist
or it could just be like, Hey,
who's scheduled for cohort three?
Who hasn't returned their, contract yet?
CJ: Got it.
Duke: So the, yeah, so maybe like some
of these things aren't checklists,
they're literal, like they're properties.
I.
CJ: Right.
Okay.
And is all this information gap
doing that initial call or is it
back and forth over email, or how
do you typically get the info?
Duke: that's a great question.
It all just kind of manifests, like
if they're, if they're, like, if
we're talking on LinkedIn, like,
Hey, I heard about your cohort.
I'm like, so let's, oh, let's do a call.
Right.
So that might be interesting,, for
the pipeline is calls that we've had.
cause then I'd know, 'cause I've
been in places where it was like, I
was dealing with 50 people at once
in a week and it's like, did we
could call and talk on the phone?
Yeah, we talked on the phone.
So that might be an interesting
thing to track is just contacts.
CJ: Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
this is shaping up to
be like a mini c r m.
Duke: Yeah, it like a very mini one.
I don't, I don't care for
like full c r m functionality.
It would if I scaled it as a
business and I had like 10 of me,
CJ: sure.
Duke: it's just me and the real
headache I have is just, , blah blah.
Said that he, wanted to
check back in two weeks.
CJ: Okay.
Right.
So that I could, I definitely
see that as a headache.
Right, but is it the real headache?
, because you're the client now, right?
So I'm gonna,
Duke: so many more, there's so many
more like, did they get me their resume?
No, , I got 15 people in cohort two,
and , I have a check that says did they
gimme the resume or not, but where is it?
It's in my email somewhere
and I'm still like searching
through my email like a pleb.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: to get to the, 'cause
we're doing, we're just on the
phase of resume reviews now.
And so I'm plowing through, trying
to find it in the email now, trying
to get them into my, resume folder.
And some of them are sending me
like, oh, you know, I've learned
so much and I finally get it.
Now here's a second version of my
resume before I get to my review.
So it's like, now it's like, which
of those resumes are authoritative?
You see what I mean?
When it's two days later and three of
them have played, have done this to me.
Right.
CJ: Yep.
Duke: It's just like, so, and
it would make it so much easier.
'cause right now I have Excel
and email and they're separate.
CJ: Right.
Duke: But in ServiceNow you get like
a user record and it has attachments.
CJ: Yeah, and you can also
have, related, , tables, right?
That you can put off the user record so
you can see if there's different versions
of a resume and so on and so forth.
Duke: Yeah.
CJ: So , since I'm the consultant in
this situation, I'll tell you, , what
I tell a lot of my clients is that,
the problems that you are identifying
are different problem, right?
And it's, so I think you're
missing the bigger problem, right?
And the bigger problem is, that this
takes a lot of time for you to do.
And even if we build the app in
the way that you're asking for
me to build it, you're still
going to have to do all the work.
So we aren't, we, what we're what we're
doing is mean you are repository, but
we're not giving you, , any time back.
Does that make sense?
Duke: Um, , I would ask you to
consider that I spend a lot of time
looking for like Joe Schmoe's resume,
CJ: Sure.
Okay.
Yeah.
So yeah, so we do give you some time back
by, , putting everything in one place.
Absolutely.
Duke: Right.
CJ: But you still have to put it there.
Duke: Yeah, yeah.
No, you're absolutely right.
Like if we could say, send
your resume to this email.
We can figure out what their email
address and use an inbound action or
a flow designer to basically say, just
look up the user with the same email
address and attach this attachment there.
CJ: Wait, I'm sorry.
Say that again.
Duke: Okay, so , they send
their resume to my Gmail, right?
Then I'm like, okay, let's download
it and then I have to open service
now, log in and then like find
their user record and upload it.
And that's where you're saying, oh
Robert, you're not saving any time at all.
You're right.
But if we could get, if we could
get them to just say, like, email
my instance with your attachment.
And so Joe Schmo emails my instance,
and he's like, joe@schmo.com.
Well, I already have his email
address because he's in my funnel.
CJ: Right?
Duke: And then it just says, oh,
joe@schmo.com sent this attachment.
Take that attachment, attach
it to his user record.
So I, now I know he has his resume.
CJ: Exactly.
, now we're talking about taking, , the
process that, is time consuming, right?
, reducing the time that it takes, but also
making it more efficient for you as well.
I, you know, the, keep going.
Let's go.
Um, so let
Duke: let me, let me lemme,
because we're on a topic that.
Is bigger than just resumes too,
because my first session is a real
deep dive on the why of ServiceNow,
CJ: Right.
Duke: You like, can I just pull
my hair out for two seconds here?
CJ: Go for it.
Duke: it blows my mind how many people
are coming out of bootcamps that cannot
adequately describe what ServiceNow does.
And what his value proposition is.
I can't tell you how many times it's been
like, uh, it's a ticketing tool for it.
They haven't inherited any gravitas around
like, why does everybody love it so much?
If it's just that
CJ: Yeah.
Right.
I was at the, ServiceNow Summit
here in Chicago, just this week.
And, , the guy who was presenting
mentioned the ServiceNow, , has for
a client 80% of the Fortune 500.
They're not all just using it
because it's a ticketing system.
Duke: Right.
And I'm just like, I wanna be clear for
these learners, it's not their fault
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: just, but who's gonna go deep
and just say like, listen, this is
why ServiceNow is so miraculous.
So anyways, I do that as session
number one, the miracle of ServiceNow,
not like, ServiceNow, the ticket
tool, the miracle of ServiceNow.
And then the first homework they
get is I send them this thing called
the, , solution ideation template,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: Take all that
stuff in your own life.
Like all the jobs you had where
you just like pulled your hair
and said, this is bullshit.
I can't stand this.
And make a ServiceNow app out of it.
But use some of the principles
we discussed in the miracle
of ServiceNow session.
To tell me why this app belongs
on ServiceNow, what value does
ServiceNow bring to this situation?
CJ: Right.
Is it fair to say that then the solution
ideation template to the bringing the app
to life, um, is that like the homework
for the Miracle Service Now session?
Or is this, or is it a separate
thing that has its own homework?
I.
Duke: it's an ongoing thing.
So like well a lot of them don't
get it in the first session, but as
we go through session more and more
sessions, then they're like, oh, okay.
I get it.
Like it's usually around after we talk
about database structure and a e s that
they finally get, oh, the reason I'm
doing this thing, so I can write down
the tables and the columns that I need,
and the properties of those tables.
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: Uh, and what to do there.
And that is currently a Word document.
because it is a word processor
thing, it's very heavily formatted.
And so word I usually prefer, but it
strikes me now that I don't necessarily
need that , as an attachment.
Like maybe a different record type.
CJ: Yeah, possibly.
Duke: here's all the solution
ideation templates and who
submitted them and link it back to.
Users, you know what I mean?
I'm sure that there's hooks for
ways we can make that interesting.
Later.
CJ: Yeah, I agree.
, and so , where we are here now in
this process is that we started off
talking about how we can get the work
right, and then how we're gonna store
the data that comprises the work.
And now we're talking about,
how you deliver the class.
And this is a different set of work.
And this is a different set of data.
So are you looking for an app that
is not just the intake, right,
which is what we were talking about
earlier, but now also the delivery
or the execution of the coursework.
Duke: Kind of so there's one thing
I tell my cohort, is that I'm not
gonna chase anybody at homework.
nor am I gonna judge anybody
at how much they have done.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: You know what I mean?
Like every, there's all kinds
of different stages of life.
There's people that have full-time
jobs while they're doing this.
maybe they got sick parents, sick kids.
Maybe they've got, , like we
had a awful flood in our house.
We had sewage pumped into our basement.
So, , I myself am dealing with.
All the drama of that.
There's just too much drama
in life for grownups, right?
And so it's like if you don't,
if you don't do this homework for
whatever reason, no judgment from me.
CJ: Right.
Duke: So I know there's a rant there,
but I don't want it to be some kind
of like hard thing like pass fail.
But , there are some things that I want
to see, like I want to check in on.
So we do a requirements gathering
workshop where they ask me about my
soaping business and they have to
like design an app around it, kind
of like what we're doing right now.
and so after they build that app,
we do all the other components of
ServiceNow in the context of that app.
So basically I want to get
everybody across the finish line.
So I'd love to have tasks where
I could say, where it's like,
It's associated to the user and
I have some kind of status on it.
CJ: Oh, so this is pretty cool.
you're having the cohort essentially,
, build individualized applications, but
then , because the applications all
follow the same sort of template and then
talk to them with a frame of reference
that relates to them, even though
you're talking at a higher level that
relates to everyone at the same time.
Duke: That's right.
We all build something big,
but it's not like, you know.
Five of us in a group
or 10 of us in a group.
We all air quotes worked together.
No, it's just everybody works
together on the requirements, but
you build it on your own instance.
Everybody has to go through
the crucible of build.
CJ: Yeah.
I, I agree.
Yeah.
, Duke: and so , I'd like to be able
to have a, whether it's a task or a
checkbox, something that says they
got to the end of this requirement.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Using that term requirement softly.
CJ: So is this a stage or state
field that is driving this kinda
like lifecycle of the course right.
Per individual
Duke: Yeah.
I'm still trying to figure
out what the task bit is.
Right.
I tell, I tell my this, my
students this all the time,
there has to be a tasky component
CJ: Yeah.
Fair enough.
Duke: I think.
where the more important
pieces of homework are.
Yes.
They're simple tasks like Joe
Schmo, please make sure you
have the Soaping app done.
Do whatever you can including call me
to get it done.
So that could be, that
could definitely be a task.
And
CJ: yeah.
Duke: then, who doesn't have the Soaping
app done or who haven't I checked in with?
CJ: So.
Duke: now, that's all just in my brain.
CJ: is this something that,
you're tracking on your own or is
this something that you want the
individual to assist you in tracking?
You know what I mean?
What I'm asking essentially
is, Are you asking the indi the
individual and course, Hey, did you
create the soap, the Soaping app?
And if they say, yeah, you go in and
you change the state from , beginner
to Soaping app, app completed, right?
Or is this a situation.
Where , you want them to log
into something like a portal.
. And they upload their work and then
the process of upload, uploading
the work changes, their state.
Moves it
Duke: Maybe they can interact like,
here's an expectation record and you can,
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: like an expectation record
is gimme your V two resume.
An expectation record might be validate
that you've closed the Soaping app.
CJ: Yeah.
And then we, when you think about
it, right from that perspective,
this is just a series of catalog
tasks to a certain degree, right?
It's a process.
There's a workflow behind it, right?
And maybe catalog tasks is the
wrong way to think about it.
But you know, there is a.
There's a task.
That task, , is a, predecessor to
another task, which is a predecessor
to another task, so on and so forth,
until they get to the finish line.
And the finish line is the
completion of the course.
. And so when they look back,
they can look back at all those
tasks , that they completed.
Some of them will have attachments,
some of them not right.
And.
But they're driving this thing forward.
And then you can look at the
back end of it and see all the
data that's been put in via the
customer, , via each, , individual.
But are you looking for something
like that or are you looking
for something where you know
they've completed the thing?
Then you check the box off and you
just use it in that way and you
create your own dashboard to monitor.
Duke: Okay.
So whether it's their like interaction
with the record that self closes.
I don't really care, but I do
have a set of expectations.
And , this is an interesting angle,
not only that I have for them, but
maybe they don't know for themselves.
Like at the start, there's
just a lot of moving parts.
, Hey, listen, get me a resume.
Hey listen, start working on
these solution ideation templates.
, when I teach them users, groups and
roles, I teach them how to build a
ServiceNow admin group on their instance.
Put their own personal account in there.
Granted the admin role, then make an
account for me, copy the password and
send me the instance and the password.
CJ: Okay.
Duke: Like that's an exercise.
And it's one of the first
exercises so that when they get
to like flow designer and they're
like, Hey, my flow doesn't work.
I'm just like, let me
just log into your system.
CJ: Yeah, that makes
Duke: See what I, so I'm just
like going really, really
deep on a lot of this stuff.
But like you can imagine like
none of them are in order, right?
So it's not like a flow that
says do this, then this and this.
It's just like, here's all the
things and then weekly here's more
expectation, more expectations.
So at least it's visible for them and us.
So I'm definitely gonna change my answer.
That's a portal.
That is useful to me and them
is definitely a useful thing.
CJ: Okay.
That makes sense.
Duke: And shoot something
else I just did last week.
I'm like, here's my Calendly.
Everybody book a time,
CJ: Oh yeah.
I love Calendly.
Duke: oh, wouldn't a Calendly
integration be so sweet?
Hmm.
CJ: Yeah, it would be, huh.
That's a nice to have.
We'll put that on a nice to,
Duke: Yeah.
But like a record producer, right?
Like I.
CJ: yeah.
Duke: Here we are on the Robert
Fedor ServiceNow Coaching cohort
portal, book a time, right?
CJ: Yeah, exactly.
Duke: to Calendly and then
that just does its thing.
CJ: so I'm gonna try to tie some of
this together, right, because we went
in, two different directions, on two
different, definitions of work and
two different parts of this process.
But there are, they are
complimentary, right?
So from where I'm sitting right
now, you have an intake process,
right, that you need to manage.
That meant that the way that you're
managing it now is, basically a wing
and a prayer, somebody will e email
Duke: highly manual.
CJ: Yes.
incredibly manual.
not just like manual as in corporate.
It.
Somebody sent me an email manual.
This is manual in, in that it
might be a several different,
intake, , sources for you,
?
LinkedIn could be email, it
could be, any source of things.
Somebody could have stopped
you on the street, right?
Um, so, you know, with intake you got a
highly manual process that you want to
streamline the abil the way that you get,
, information from your potential, cohort.
Right.
We've categorized that you need to
really, , be able to, capture attachments
and we've also, , captured , the
fields that you're gonna use, right?
And that you're gonna be used these
field, a lot of these fields to track
the progress or to validate whether
or not a qualified, whether or not
a potential cohort member will be
someone that you actually interact
with more to see if they're interested.
we've also updated, now this is
the thing well, where sometimes
jumping around is helpful.
We validated that you'd likely want
this , to have some kind of po , portal
component, So when we started collecting
the information around the intake app,
you were very much in the mind of, I
just need somewhere to put this stuff.
, if I just have somewhere to
put it, then that's enough.
But then when we started talking
about the coursework and how your
cohort interacts with you and how you
interact with them and being able to,
, communicate progress, , you say, well,
actually a portal will be very valuable.
Right?
So then we backport the portal.
To the intake app.
Right.
And we can use that here as, as probably
, the way we want folks to interact with
you during the intake process as well,
Duke: let's break the fourth
wall here for a second.
Like, isn't it amazing that I had such
a clear idea in my head, I just want
this, but you just made yourself more
consulting dollars because you convinced
me that well, don't you also need this?
Like, isn't this a big,
wouldn't it also help.
CJ: Yeah,
Duke: you convinced me to increase
the scope of the project because
now I'm like, you know what?
, why don't I make this self-service?
, not self-service is the wrong word.
Why don't I have a portal
component that my cohort, uses?
CJ: Absolutely right.
Duke: for them now, like, mm-hmm.
, CJ: and the, way that I did that
was by listening to you, right?
I listened to how you framed what the
information that you gave back to me and I
noticed that it wasn't gist, capturing the
information and have it somewhere store
It is also that you're a one man show.
It's also that , you haven't
formalized a lot of it, right?
Like you're still in the
process of shaking it out.
It's also that a lot of the time
for this, you need to spend on
teaching and not on managing.
And so based on all of these
situations, all of those, , those
situations that I was able to
read into our conversation, right?
I also noted that.
a big requirement wasn't necessarily
articulating, but was really
present is time management, right?
The ability to shrink the amount of time
that you spend on managing this process
so that you can expand the amount of time
that you spend with your cohort, and then,
you know, having a portal that folks can
interact with allows you to push some
of the work that you were doing off on
them, which gives you some time back.
So I, I got the purpose
of the app here now.
We know who's gonna use it.
We know how they're gonna use it, ? We
know the data that's gonna be created.
, we don't yet know how
you're going to consume it.
So are you looking at , some
kind of dashboard on your end?
Are you looking to have some
kind of scheduled reporting?
, what are you looking at on this?
Duke: Yeah, I, definitely have
want a dashboard , or dashboards
or a dashboard with tabs.
CJ: Okay.
Or workspace or,
Duke: Yeah.
, no, not a workspace, because I think
a workspace is more like every day
I'm gonna go here and see these things
and here's why it's not an every day.
'cause there's a dashboard I'll be
using during the cohort planning, right?
Because now I'm starting
to advertise cohort three.
Cough, cough, hit me up at Rob,
at the duke, do digital, hit
me up at rob@theduke.digital.
Digital if you're interested.
But I'm planning it, right?
And so it's, it's basically like we
can't start till everything's ready.
Here's all the parts
that still need ready.
Like who hasn't put in contracts, do
we have a critical mass yet of people
who have definitively said yes?
CJ: Right.
Duke: so there's that kind of stuff.
But then also during the cohort,
there's that idea of expectations.
Please get me your resume.
Please get me your, , instance credentials
for the account you made of me.
Please get me your solution
ideation template or templates.
, please validate that you've
finished the SOAP app.
Submit a question to me.
yeah, just like a lot of stuff that like.
You can call them tasks, but
they're just expectations now.
, CJ: absolutely.
, and because some of those things,
, relate to each other and some, well,
they all relate to each other as
they're part of the, , execution of
running the business, but some of them
are more closely aligned than others.
You want multiple dashboards
or at least multiple , tabs,
Duke: I'd, I'd be happy with
just like some, like, you know,
how I can master a list, right?
But definitely a dashboard
that's kind of like I.
What are the, I think maybe
just the types of things
CJ: Yeah.
Duke: how many people are, are left open.
So we got fi, we got two people
that haven't signed a contract yet.
We have two people that
haven't submitted resumes yet.
We have five people that
haven't submitted a solution.
Ideation templates.
CJ: Yeah, I mean, this is one of,
the things that you preach, , around
performance analytics, it's like, you know
, what's the metric and which way is good,
Duke: Yeah, yeah.
I'll tell you, I mean we do have just,
can I just take another two minutes
CJ: yeah, go for it.
Duke: 'cause one thing , I'm really
wanting to get my arms around is
a data-driven way to figure out
who is comfortable with what.
So like I'd love to be able to toss some
kind of record somewhere that just says
Bob is having trouble with flow designer
Jane is still needs more help with.
data structure, And then, then what I can
do is by looking at the records of it,
I can just say, there's five people that
still need help with data structures.
Let's just jump on a call and have
an extra hour session on that.
Just the people who are having trouble.
CJ: Yeah.
So you want an ability to log, um, um,
cohort competency against a set of skills,
Duke: Yeah.
Yeah.
It like skills fascinates me except for
the skills are one dimensional, right?
The skills table contains skills and only
skills, but yeah, , I'm really curious
about anything we can do that way as well.
CJ: Yeah, , that's a really
interesting requirement.
, I think it's pretty cool, right?
, I think you'd also gamify it, ? That might
be something that'd be interesting to
think about is how do you gamify, right?
Like, you know, um, your, your cohort,
um, mastering all of those skills, right?
Duke: I would love a
points board of some sort.
CJ: Yeah.
, Duke: I always joke about it
in my classes, so somebody asks
a really profound question.
I'm like, you get the bonus point today.
But I'd also love to track that
and just say so and so got the most
points and they get, I don't know,
a discount on the whole cohort or
something, or, you know what I mean?
Or,
CJ: Yeah.
No, absolutely.
. I think that's great, given folks,
that, , in the moment accomplishment
because the skills that they're taking
that they're going to have here,
they will accumulate over time and
sometimes in small increments, right?
So you don't always get that payoff , and
dopamine like, but if you get some points,
points are dopamine incarnate, so, yeah.
We're gonna do some gamification
around, some, , around skill mastery.
, I really like this idea.
I think this will be really, , in a cohort
at the level of what you're doing, right?
, it's a good spot.
, let's see what else we got here.
So I.
We've got dashboards.
We know we're gonna, one of
those dashboards , should be
some kind of, , points system.
, we know the information.
We know, okay, we know
how we're doing this.
, I know the purpose of it, you know.
You know, Robert, I think I have
probably enough here to get started.
, I think there's gonna, there are
some open items here that I think
we're gonna have to it, right?
And they largely, , revolve around
the, , the course itself, right?
Like, so you gave me a couple of
items, , that you're delivering, ? Like
the Americorp of ServiceNow, the
Solution Ideation template, right?
The Req Requirements Gathering Workshop,
a k a and the SOAP building, , app.
There's probably a few other things here
that, that we're missing that need to be
added to this, topic list of the course.
? But then you also want to have an easy
way to add and remove and, and move
around , the actual topics themselves.
Duke: Well, I have an idea, since we are
at 41 minutes, maybe we test far people
have gotten into this episode, and,
CJ: Okay.
Duke: and we say like, well, let
me say like, um, show me more.
Put that down in the reply
wherever you see this type down.
Show me more.
if you want us to do a full other
episode on this and go deeper,
CJ: I like it.
Dude.
This has been fun, right?
Like, so
Duke: I, I do like the
requirement gathering stuff.
It's one of my favorite parts of the job.
So,
CJ: Yeah.
I it put me in a situation to actually
gather requirements from somebody
who knows a lot about service and
that that's a right, like that's a
situation that I'm hardly ever in.
And when I'm in workshops, I'm
normally trying to teach people
, how to use ServiceNow and what,
and , the functionality, but you
know what the things are, right?
It's , yeah, I can use
the portal for that.
We can probably do some
task records against that.
Maybe some KPIs, you know.
Duke: Yep.
And it's so nice being on the
other side of it this time.
All right.
I think that's all we have
time for today though, right?
CJ: Yeah, I think so.
All right, guys.
Uh, let's tune in next time.
Duke: All right.
Still no outro
CJ: Still no outro.
Duke: all.