Chris Walker on why you should look for a new job

Feeling burned out or stuck in your job? Chris Walker says the real problem might not be your boss or your paycheck, it’s the frequency you operate in.

In this episode, he shares with Toni how trusting his intuition led him to sell Refine Labs and step away from the company he built, and why he believes we’re leaving the Information Era and entering a new “Frequency Era,” where your energy and mindset matter more than credentials or experience. Chris explains the six tiers of frequency, what it takes to move beyond stress and burnout, and how urgency and constant pressure can quietly pull a whole company into low-frequency habits.

Want to work with us? Learn more: revformula.io

• (00:00) - Introduction
• (01:56) - The Decision to Exit Refine Labs and What's Next
• (11:09) - The Shift from Information Era to Frequency Era
• (15:37) - What is Frequency?
• (20:13) - Frequency Tiers and Personal Growth
• (22:46) - Tier One: Recognizing the Illusion
• (24:05) - Tier Two: Breaking the Illusion
• (26:17) - Tier Three and Beyond: Energetic Mastery
• (32:10) - Example: How You Relate to Time
• (33:49) - Where Frequency meets Business
• (37:06) - Defining Success Beyond Financial Metrics
• (42:39) - The Power of Choice and Awareness
• (44:13) - Examples of Different Company Frequencies
• (46:54) - The Role of Urgency and Pressure
• (51:19) - Impact of Venture Capital on Company Frequency
• (55:16) - Leadership and Frequency Alignment
• (01:05:45) - Final Thoughts and Personal Journey
• (01:09:13) - Next Week: Zoominfo's James Roth on AI in Sales and Marketing

Creators and Guests

Host

Toni Hohlbein

2x exited CRO | 1x Founder | Podcast Host

Guest

Chris Walker

Founder @ ENCODED

What is The Revenue Formula?

This podcast is about scaling tech startups.

Hosted by Toni Hohlbein & Raul Porojan, together they look at the full funnel.

With a combined 20 years of experience in B2B SaaS and 3 exits, they discuss growing pains, challenges and opportunities they’ve faced. Whether you're working in RevOps, sales, operations, finance or marketing - if you care about revenue, you'll care about this podcast.

If there’s one thing they hate, it’s talk. We know, it’s a bit of an oxymoron. But execution and focus is the key - that’s why each episode is designed to give 1-2 very concrete takeaways.

TRF - Chris Walker on why you should look for a new job
===

Introduction
---

[00:00:00]

Toni: Today I'm talking to Chris Walker. Instead of splitting the funnel and how MQLs destroy marketing, we will talk about frequency and how this might be the reason why you feel miserable at your job, and frankly why you should look for a new one. Chris and I will discover the topic of frequency in the first 30 minutes, which is essential to understand, and then jump into how this connects back to business.

And now enjoy.

Chris Walker: Most people focus on their actions. I need to do a podcast. I need to go to the gym. I need to post on social media. I need to scale my business. I need to hire that person. They focus on the action, and they don't focus on who they are, how they're being, and what their underlying intentions are with those actions.

At lower frequency tiers, we construct a false identity of ourselves. I'm the CEO, I'm the strategist. I'm the achiever. I'm the performer. I'm the helper. It's not really who we are. It's a identity that we've constructed for ourselves to, to navigate the [00:01:00] world, and I believe that over time, most people will choose which company to work for based on frequency match, not based and mission alignment, not based on experience, credentials, how much funding they have, and that they will live a much better life and a variety of reasons by choosing a company differently than how we've been taught to in the past.

Toni: Chris, last time you and I chatted, which does feel like ages ago, we talked about splitting the funnel. We talked about Keck payback. We talked about optimizing your go-to market engine, things have changed. What have, what, what has happened on your side since then? What have you been up to, uh, for the last year or so?

Chris Walker: Um, operating at a new frequency man.

Toni: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chris Walker: Mm-hmm. Operating at a, operating at a different frequency. I'm not a different person. I'm just, the way that I'm showing up my intentions, the things that I believe about myself and others have fundamentally changed.

The Decision to Exit Refine Labs and What's Next
---

Chris Walker: Um, one of the big, uh, milestone [00:02:00] markers in, in this time period since we last talked was me, um, exiting my, one of my first companies called Refine Labs.

Um, I sold all my shares in July of 2025 to a private investment firm and existing shareholders. Um, and people think it's kind of funny or maybe a little odd, weird how I got there. Uh, but I think the, the story is kind interesting and there's a interesting, uh, element of for people to, to consider. I was on a flight from LA to Sydney.

Long flight, like 16 hours in February. And on that flight, my intuition was like, it is time to move on. It is time to move on from this company. And over time, I have learned to deeply trust my intuition when I feel it, and I know I trust it almost immediately. And when I landed in Sydney, it was 9:00 AM and I got off the plane the first opportunity I could to make a phone call.

I made a phone call and said, we're starting the process of, uh, of [00:03:00] me exiting this company. And five or six months later, it was complete. Um, and that type of story has now happened over and over in my life, um, except five, seven years ago. It would take me six months to act on that intuition. It would take me 3, 3, 6, 12 months to be from when I know it to when I actually do something about it.

And what I learned over time is that once you know, you know, and all that happens is it just keeps getting louder and louder and louder over time until you, you eventually get forced to do something about it. And so I just don't wait to be forced to do something about it. I've, uh, learned to deeply trust my intuition.

Toni: Very decisive now. Right. I mean, this sounds like a really cool jump off point for the story, but I guess it's not that super simple, right? I mean, you made the decision to, to ask at the business at this point. It, you know, was it like you had immediate the epiphany what you want to do next? Or was that more like a slow moving process for you to kind of chill out, take a break, [00:04:00] uh, be somewhere on a beach and, and figure this next step out?

Chris Walker: So, um, I knew what I wanted to do, which is what we're doing right now. Mm-hmm. Um, but I also knew. That I needed to show up differently and to be different in order to move forward and successfully accomplish my next mission. Um, and so that involved detaching from societal programming. It evolved from detaching from the false identity that I constructed for myself of influencer strategist, constant poster on social media, needing to prove stuff to people.

Um, this identity that had gotten me so far and then had eventually become the thing that was holding me back. Um, and so I did spend some time, but it wasn't, uh, many founders when they exit their business, they have this void. They're like, I feel empty. I need to do something like that. Definitely did not happen to me.

Um, but uh, [00:05:00] it was a process to take a step back. And to, to reevaluate, uh, all the things that, of how I'm showing up. Um, and mm-hmm. The thing that I've come to know, and now I can see very clearly in others is that most people focus on their actions, right? I need to do a podcast. I need to go to the gym. I need to post on social media.

I need to scale my business. I need to hire that person. I need to motivate my team in this meeting, whatever it is, right? They focus on the action, and they don't focus on who they are, how they're being, and what their underlying intentions are with those actions. Now, let me explain, okay. If you show up to your team meeting, right, you're the CEO or the leader.

And you feel not enough pressure, urgency, scarcity, most of these things are running subconsciously in your mind. You can't even recognize them that they're happening to you and then you show up and you try to motivate your team with pressure, urgency, what are we gonna do now? Those people feel fear, [00:06:00] urgency, all these types of things unsafe themselves.

Alternatively, you could show up to that meeting and say, Hey guys, everything is happening right on time. This delay that's facing us is good for us. Now that we're able to, now we're able to better prepare for this product launch and we'll be able to better prepare for the impact that we are having on this company.

This is a good thing. We are not in a hurry. We all do our best work. When we are not feeling urgency and pressure, I am relieving that of us so that we can do our best work. Same exact action, leading a meeting in two entirely different states of being. And so I'm, uh, I'm, now I can now I'm seeing that, now.

I'm aware of that. Um, and encouraging others to become aware of it as well.

Toni: Taking a step back, I think from, you know, many people listening to you right now, they will still have in the back of the hat, Hey, this is the Chris Walker on LinkedIn that does all the wonderful stuff and now they're gonna hear you talk like this and we are gonna go way deeper than this, right?

But before we do like. [00:07:00] Was there some crazy big event? You know, did you have a car crash? Or, you know, sometimes people connect, you know, big shifts like that to, to, I don't know, like, specific things happening. Um, I don't think that was the case for you. I just wanna like double click. Like was it like a specific wake up, aha moment for you where you kind of realized, oh, wait a minute.

Actually there's this other big topic that sits inside of me that I need to work on right now?

Chris Walker: Yes and no. I'll try to, I'll, I'll, I'll try to explain to others. Okay. So, um, to me, what I feel about what I'm doing now is this is my purpose and mission. This is my destiny of what I'm supposed to do on Earth.

Mm-hmm. Now, the process of getting here, most people think that they go out and search for their purpose, that they work hard and then they find it. Um, what I've found is that the process is actually removal. And that your purpose is already inside of you, but there are just a bunch of things getting in your [00:08:00] way, like societal conditioning that I need.

Success means that I need to make a lot of money, buy a big house, scale my business, raise venture capital, impress other people, whatever that, whatever success has been programmed into people, what productivity means. Productivity means how many hours that we worked, how busy that we are, how many meetings we have on our calendar.

That means that we're valuable. These are sus societal constructs that are not real. Um, and when people live by these constructs, they get so busy, they get so focused on these things that they can't take a step back and see what they're actually meant to do. Um, limiting beliefs about yourself in the world or other ones.

Who, who am I? Who are you? Right. We can, especially at early or lower frequency tiers, which I have been in all of them, right? And I'm not saying that I'm better than anyone by, uh, inviting people to consider this at lower frequency tiers, we construct a false identity of ourselves. I'm the CEO, I'm the strategist, I'm the achiever, I'm the [00:09:00] performer, I'm the helper.

Whatever these things are, it's not really who we are. It's a identity that we've constructed for ourselves to, to navigate the world, right? So. Uh, what I was able to do and what I know that everybody else is, is totally capable of doing should they, should they choose, is to remove all of this stuff that gets in our way and then boom, oh, this is what, this is what I'm here to do.

I feel so lit up about this. I feel so energized about this. I know who my people are. I can, I can, I feel amazing about doing this in an entirely different way. I'm not following any of the programming. I'm sure we'll get into some of that too, about how people are meant to build their business or what they think they should do.

Um, and so that's kind of like a, a yes and no. It culminated in a big event where I was like, whoa. Like, oh, duh. Like, yeah. And it's, it's interesting because, um, I didn't choose this. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't make a deck and strategize about how this was gonna be [00:10:00] such a great company and how I was gonna make a bunch of money on it.

It literally, I, I remembered that this is what I'm supposed to do. Um, and I think that it is, uh. Some people might view this as spiritual. Woo. I, I actually don't believe in that at all. That stuff has never resonated with me. I, I, whoever is going to, uh, do that is welcome to amazing. Like, do you, um, but that stuff hasn't resonated with me, and I want to pu push people to, to consider that this is an innate human skill.

That doing this as a skill, just like read, learning how to read, learning to drive, riding a bicycle, learning to swim, that this process of discovering yourself and removing these things that have been programmed into us is actually a, a learnable structured skill.

Toni: Many people listening will be like, okay, tell me about this frequency.

You know, what, what is that? What does that mean? And we're gonna get there in one second. I think what is really important first is like setting the stage a little bit. Why, why does this even matter? You know, [00:11:00] right now, kind of why is this something that came to you now? Why is this important for people to know now versus 10 years ago and 10 years time?

Chris Walker: If we look back in history.

The Shift from Information Era to Frequency Era
---

Chris Walker: Um, for about the past 50 years, up until the mid 2020s, last couple of years, we lived in a society known as the information era where the value of a human is determined by how much information they can store in their brain, and then they, how they can regurgitate or apply that knowledge in order to make money.

The entire society is built around that from the education system, shoving information into kids' brains from the time they're seven till the time they're 22, and then they make money applying that how people determine who's the right person for a job, what's their credentials, how much experience do they have, how smart are they?

Right? Um, you could go on and on. Mm-hmm. Now, uh, a couple of years ago this thing called AI came around. [00:12:00] And soon it will become a GI and then late. So shortly after that, super intelligence and what will happen, what is hap it's not will happen, it is happening right now, is that the value of the information that you store in your brain as a human is becoming less and less valuable every day.

And so when you remove that core belief about society of that, my value as a human is how smart I am or how many credentials I have, because now I can just go to AI and get the answer and soon it will be way better than any human It already is in certain, in certain areas about giving us that answer.

And then soon it will do all the tasks and things like that. So what are the innate human skills that thrive in this new era? Um, and I've been able to tune in that creativity, intuition, human connection. Um, reading, being able to read and impact other people by how we show up. How, how we make other people feel, how we make people feel, the clarity [00:13:00] within themselves, um, based on how we show up.

Um, and so from the information era, AI and super intelligence is the catalyst we are now entering. It is in progress. The frequency era or the value of a human is based on the frequency that they emit from their body. Now I just want to give people a tiny bit of a history lesson for context, because this has happened before in history already.

So in the, in the early 19 hundreds, we were in an era called the industrial era. People made money using their hands. They worked in factories, they did construction. The main way that people made money was with their hands. And then this catalyst came along called the microprocessor and the internet, and that was the catalyst moving to the information era.

And during that catalyst, many people said, probably a majority of society said, you'll never make money using a computer. Go get a real job in a factory. And they didn't see the second and third order [00:14:00] consequences of this major technological shift. We are in another one of those transitions right now.

Where people do not see the second and third order consequences of this shift, they only see how can I use AI to do the same shit that I'm already doing with a robot. Um, and so that is the, the why it matters. Um, I am provi, I am, uh, communicating zero urgency about this zero risk, zero attempt to convince anybody to believe in this.

It, it doesn't matter to me whether or not you do, I am simply offering a perspective so that you might be able to see how, how this might impact your life in the future.

Toni: And I'm sure there are a couple of people that go WTF right now and like, what, what, what is this about? Right? So, and, and I think that's that's fair.

That's fair. Actually, it's fair if, if, if I invite anyone, like, try and have an open mind for the next 30 to 60 minutes as we kind of go through this, because to a degree following your analogy, um, it's a little like talking to someone in, you know, pre-industrial age or in the industrial [00:15:00] age. Hey, you know.

In 10 years from now, you will be, uh, making most of your money from using your head instead of your hands. And they would be like, what? Like, that makes no sense whatsoever. I'm sitting in my, you know, in this, in this manufacturing kind of thing. I'm doing all of these things and, and you're telling me I'm gonna sit in the corner.

Just think and get money for that. That sounds absurd, right? You, you, you're a crazy person and you know what, Chris might be right about this frequency thing or not, but there's certainly something that comes, you know, after this knowledge work that we've been doing, right? And I think this is a fair attempt or a fair perspective in what that actually could be.

What is Frequency?
---

Toni: So let's actually jump into frequency, right? People understand hands, people understand brains and knowledge frequency sounds a little bit out there, um, right. At least from, from the first, first time I heard it. So let's, let's peel back the onion a little bit and kind of let us, let us know what, what is this frequency thing?

Chris Walker: So frequency. [00:16:00] Is the composite signal that emits from your body as a combination of your beliefs, emotions, actions, and intentions. Now, everybody knows this because at one point in their life they've been around someone and that person wasn't saying anything or doing anything, but they thought, Ugh, something isn't right about this person.

Mm-hmm. That is you being able to feel their frequency. This is an innate human skill. Now, most people, because they're not tuned in, they can only feel it on the two very, uh, ends of the spectrum. They can't feel all the gray area in the middle. They can only feel really, really bad or really, really good.

And those two are what people can relate to. Now, one human has a frequency. Um, it governs how you, how you lead, create, make decisions, relate to things like time, money, purpose, work, relationships, how you show up and how you make other people [00:17:00] feel. The emotions that you feel, the things that you believe, everything.

And so one human has a frequency, and then a group of humans will have a resonant frequency. So you put 10 or 15 humans together, there will be a dominant frequency of the people that are operating that. And over time, every human in that group, if they stay long enough, will assimilate to the dominant frequency.

And you can keep playing that out. And at the end you get, the world has a dominant frequency. All of the people combined. The dominant frequency of the world is the, the frequency that most people operate on. This can, uh. Be involved in digital environments. It's not just physical. So your work, a remote company with a hundred people that has slack and zooms and different things like that, has a resonant frequency.

If you work there over time, you will assimilate to that frequency. I'm sure we're gonna get into some of the business applications later. Um, but that is effectively the, the, the description of it. Now, [00:18:00] most people are like, what, what the fuck are you talking about? A signal coming outta your body? What, what?

And I would encourage people to think that most people thought that wifi was impossible. Most people thought, most people thought that gravity made no sense until we discovered it. Like, and so, and all of the, all of those things are also invisible, and we can feel them and relate to them and understand them in the same way.

Um, and the key of why I think people, um, why it matters to people is that as you become aware of. And understand your current operating frequency. And then if you ch then you have the choice of do I want to continue to stay here or do I want to take steps in order to elevate my frequency? Um, and as you become aware, make that choice and elevate your frequency.

It changes how you relate to everything in your life. It changes absolutely everything. And so what I, what, uh, I see this as as [00:19:00] structured repeatable and measurable as fitness. That somebody that is overweight or out of shape, one has to become aware of it. Then they have to make a choice and have, bake that in that I'm going to do something different.

I'm going to be somebody different. And then they have to take action and intention against that. With a plan in order to improve their health and fitness. Um, and I believe the same thing is possible, and it's already been demonstrated with the 40 or 50 people that have gone through, uh, the encoded program already.

Toni: Before we get back to the conversation, a quick break. Most teams I talk to that are trying to scale strategy is not the problem. It's almost always execution. They've got dashboards telling them what happened, but nothing that actually drives what to do next. That's why I've been watching what ZoomInfo is doing lately.

They've completely rebuilt themselves. It's not just a contact data anymore. It's a full go-to market intelligence platform that [00:20:00] sees via signals and launches. The motion automatically. Strategy turns into action and growth becomes predictable. Check it out at zoom info.com/revenue-formula.

Frequency Tiers and Personal Growth
---

Toni: and one clear ha moment here for some folks might be, uh, the first.

Encounter that I had with this frequency concept was like, oh, this feels passive. It's like you have it or you don't have it, or you are one frequency or the other. But you know, as I'm listening to you, there's a little bit of um, uh, I wanna say actionability to it, right? You can do something about. The frequency.

It's a, it's a, some something akin to a skill to learn or something to master, basically, right? Which, which suddenly takes this, uh, concept into, um, you know, something more proactive that you can potentially work on if it's, if it's obviously worth it. I mean, you discuss whether or it's worth it all. But, uh, that is a key takeaway, right?

This, the frequency [00:21:00] is something that can be learned or at least the different levels of your frequency can be learned and, um, you can adjust to that. So let's talk about this a little bit. So there is, um, a frequency map. Uh, we'll probably on the YouTube, we'll kind of slide this in and let people kind of glance at this real quick.

Um, going through this, I can just recommend there's another episode on, uh, on the, we are encoded channel that goes through this like for an hour and, you know, welcome everyone to, to listen to this in detail. Um, but. I think for the sake of this episode, let's go through this to a degree, maybe not in the same detail, but to a degree that people have a bit of an understanding what is level one.

Why is this worse than level, I don't know, five, et cetera. Right? So that, yep. Uh, because what, what I felt kind of hearing this, especially, I think there was some like key quotes per stage. It was like, oh shit. Yeah, no, that's me. I'm, I'm over there in the low digits. Um, but, uh, [00:22:00] may, maybe you can, you can shed some light into, um, into that right now.

Chris Walker: Yeah, I would be happy to. Um, I think a key point before we get into this is to recognize that as we adjust and shift our frequency, we are not becoming a different person. We are shift, we are shifting a into a new, new frequency. And another really important thing is that all frequency versions of us exist right now.

Meaning that the tier one version of me still exists. I am just not operating at that frequency right now. I still remember what it feels like. And so for somebody that's in tier one right now, to understand that the tier three and tier five version of you also exist right now. Um, now, um, tier one.

Tier One: Recognizing the Illusion
---

Chris Walker: Tier one, the key quote is, if I just, uh, earn, prove, or fix enough, maybe I'll feel better.

Um, the, the common signs are overworking, burnout, stress, [00:23:00] anxiety, emotional dysregulation, not feeling enough, um, thing, uh, things like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and a majority of the population, 70 to 85% is my estimate of the population of the world lives in this frequency and totally unaware of it. They think that it's normal, that they feel this way every day.

Um, and so the, the key of tier one is, and, and. Elevating or shifting your frequency out of tier one is recognizing that, that this isn't you. This isn't a world that you chose. This, this is programming that causes fear, anxiety, stress, burnout, your decisions, and that you don't have to live that way. You can choose differently.

You have the power and the freedom to believe and show up and, and think different things about yourself in the world.

Toni: This was, this was level one. This was kind of the, the bottom of the permit, the, the bottom of the [00:24:00] framework here. Just give us a little bit of a taste, um, how it looks like as you move up.

Chris Walker: Perfect.

Tier Two: Breaking the Illusion
---

Chris Walker: So, um, in tier two, the, the, the title of tier two is Breaking the Illusion, and the key quote is, everything I've been taught might be a lie, but I don't know what's real yet. And so this is when you begin to question all of these things about the world and what you've been told. You search out mentors and content and coaches and resources to try to give you answers about what's going on.

Um, you, uh, ping pong between, uh, like I'm powerful and then doubting yourself pretty aggressively. So you're seeking all of these answers from outside of you, and then you feel like a little bit of a void, and this is totally normal, that you don't resonate with your old life. Mm-hmm. But you don't know what's coming next.

You're in this, in this void. Almost everybody that I've talked to experienced this [00:25:00] is this in tier two. Um, and it requires detaching from those old beliefs, old identities, things like that in order to continue to progress. When you are getting ready to exit tier two, you have started to realize. That my beliefs, my emotions, my actions and my intentions shape the reality that I live in the world is not happening to me.

I am co-creating it by how I'm showing up and what I believe. Most of the stuff is happening entirely subconsciously. You are not aware of it. You can see the symptoms of it in your life, but you're not able to go down and see what's actually the cause of it, which is generally some feeling of, I'm not enough, or I'm not good enough for that, or I don't trust myself or something deep that is really hard to confront and this is not healing.

I do not view this as any people are broken and they need to be fixed. I don't believe in that. It's about becoming [00:26:00] aware of what's actually happening so that you can. Choose differently and see the, and see that it's a lie, and then choose the truth for yourself. Now, I don't, I'm not sure we would need to go through all of them, but, but I think three and four become the, the, the most important for, for people.

Tier Three and Beyond: Energetic Mastery
---

Chris Walker: Um, so tier three is called encoded activation. Incredibly empowering position to be in as a human being. Um, where the key quote is, my beliefs, emotions, actions, and intentions shape the reality that I live in. Um, when you enter it, you feel lit up by your own awareness, but don't trust it fully. You're starting to get, uh, hits of intuition that you're not thinking about.

These answers are coming to you and you're like, that's right, but you don't fully trust it yet. Um, you, uh, begin to take bold action. However, right after you finish the bold action that you start, you doubt yourself like, was that too much? Was it too soon? Should I have done that? [00:27:00] Um, you start seeing and becoming aware that as your frequency shifts, everything else around you is also shifting.

That how you experience the world is changing and it's a lot more enjoyable and pleasant and calm and things like that. Um, so, uh, the process of getting. Through those tiers is mainly cognitive. The first three tiers is a cognitive process of thinking and understanding and training your, your, your mind and your body to think about yourself in the world in a different way, and to then be able to recognize that, um, one, the shift from tier three to tier four is a major shift because you shift in the world from mainly operating cognitively to mainly operating energetically.

Now, um, the way that I like to explain this, and it's resonated with people is these tiers are just like any other type of skill mastery and how skill mastery works is that you can do one fundamental thing [00:28:00] like dribble the basketball, and then once you're able to dribble the basketball, then you can dribble and walk.

Okay, then once you can figure out how to dribble and walk, then you can dribble and run. But all three of those stages, you still have to look at the ground and look at the ball. Now, tier four is when dribbling happens automatically, and then you can look up and see the whole game. When you move into tier four, it's like opening your eyes for the first time and seeing the world, but you're seeing it in a whole different way.

Um, because you now are aware of the frequency and energy of everything around you because you're not worried about yourself and you're not limit, you're not the things you believe about yourself, worried about yourself, doubting yourself, things like that. And so you can feel that person's frequency. You can feel the frequency of a space.

You can feel people's underlying intentions. You become very aware of the language that other people use that doesn't resonate with you anymore. Um, and so when you shift into, uh, tier four, uh, tier four is called energetic mastery. And the key quote is, I trust my [00:29:00] frequency and I live what I know. Um, some of the, uh.

The big common signs are that you make choices cleanly, quickly, and based on resonance, like me selling my company mm-hmm. Because I felt it on the plane. Right? Um, you're emotionally stable and energetically self-regulated. You have total sovereignty. Someone cutting you off in traffic being mean to you.

Doing something to you does not impact how you feel. You recognize that that person is running their own program and it has nothing to do with me. Um, you design your life, work, relationships, every habits, everything in your life around optimizing your frequency, um, and, uh, you no longer need structure to feel safe.

Um, I guess the, then the last part is that you start to see, um, acceleration of the output impact in your life while working less. C, [00:30:00] your frequency and your trust and your own intuition starts working way harder for you than sitting at your desk trying to think about a strategy. Um, and so I think that's a good overview for people.

I haven't encountered, uh, almost, almost any humans at this point operating in tier five or tier six. And to be totally honest, IO Mike, everyone has a default frequency like the climate. Like when everything settles, what is their default frequency? Which in transparency for me is middle of tier four. Like what I just said, I've experienced tier five in tier six, but only as a touch.

I've also experienced tier three, tier two, and tier one. Um, and so I know that they exist. I don't live in it in a permanent state at this point.

Toni: What I think funny or, well funny is probably the wrong word, but interesting listening to you. Um, frequency itself sounds like an out there kind of idea, but then you suddenly use words like resonate and everyone uses resonate all the time, right?

I was on a sales call just before and it's like, oh, this very much [00:31:00] resonates with me. It's like, oh yeah, that's, that's a thing. People or being in tune with something, right? Kind of there, there are a couple of different concepts that kind of connecting to this, which I think is really interesting. Um, you didn't necessarily mention it yet in the, in, in the different levels, but, um, that there is a, there's, um, uh, you know, an aspect to things becoming effortless, uh, becoming easy.

Uh, there's kind of almost a flow state, you know, people would probably say to it. And, um, if you think in, in frequency and the wavelength and so forth, you can, you know, at least for me from a physics perspective, I can like, oh wow. And then those frequencies overlap and then, you know, it doesn't seem like it's noise, kind of you're being in sync at that point.

There are a couple of concepts I think that, um, still super alien and forward, by the way. I'm not gonna say like, oh, to, I totally get it. Um, but there are places where I'm saying, you know what? Actually kind of not only. Do I know, have I been in this situation and has that crossed my mind? [00:32:00] But, um, this concept, sorry, this concept is quote unquote starting to resonate.

Uh, a little bit more with me. I think what, I'm not sure if you wanted to react to this before I kind of move on.

Example: How You Relate to Time
---

Chris Walker: I'm just gonna give one example, I'll go through it, uh, specific to time, right? So how you relate to each of these dimensions, like time, relationships, social location, your purpose, your work, all these different dimensions shift as you shift your frequency.

So for time in tier one, you never have enough time. You're always rushing and you're falling behind. In tier two, you seek control over time in order to feel safe. In tier three, you try to make time to improve your frequency. In tier four, time expands as you, your frequency aligns sort of the concept that you just said there.

Um. In tier five, time collapses through clarity and design. As I am more clear, things happen more [00:33:00] quickly, not how much effort I put into it. And then in tier six, time becomes irrelevant. Um, and so it's just one concept there. And then in physics, if we want to continue to go there, um, the mathematical equation that explains frequency in the real world is time equals one over frequency or frequency equals one over time.

Meaning that as you increase your frequency, you get more cycles in each period of time. Um, and so that is the core. It operates in every in elect in electronics and ev audio waves and all these different areas that already exist in the world. As frequency increases, you can get more done in the same period of time.

And I have experienced that for myself

Where Frequency meets Business
---

Toni: moving on to, you know, people might be like, okay, I can totally see this work from a personal life, um, for many different reasons. How does that connect? [00:34:00] You know, I thought Tony is doing some kind of a business podcast here. How does, how does that connect back to that world?

Chris Walker: Yeah, it's per it's perfect context setting. I'll go in, in, in one to frame set and then we will sort of get into it. Um, but it's become, uh, it, it's become very clear to me that I spent most of the time in my career up to this point, engaging with low frequency companies. Um, and the, the, the sort of description.

Around what a low frequency company is. Um, constant urgency, pressure to rush, falling behind scarcity mindset focused on competition. Uh, fear of missing out, draining, reactive burnout, cycles for employees. Rigid hierarchy, um, focused on external validation, awards, titles, funding. Um, [00:35:00] those are, those are some of the forced expansion, chasing targets, things like that.

Um, and working at one of those companies totally fucking sucks. You feel that frequency that becomes you, you then feel urgency, not enough falling behind. You feel that way, and then you take that because it's highly contagious and you will assimilate to that group. And then you take that, and then it finds its way into every other area of your life, into your finances, your relationships, your health, your mental health, how you orient around time, everything.

Um, and so whether you're a, you're a, uh, teammate, I don't like the word employee for many reasons. Whether you're a teammate, a customer, a vendor, a partner of a low frequency company, those companies extract your energy, resources, time, freedom, freedom. Um, and so. [00:36:00] I'm make, I, I'm mainly doing this to make people aware, right? Because I think that it's important as a human that if you feel these things to recognize what is co instead of just saying, this is normal, which is what I did for most of my life, to recognize what's actually happening here. Um, and so, um, that is one key point is I just like, I, I have watched how this impacts, um, uh, people that work at, at the companies, the executive leaderships and how that impacts their life, uh, vendors of these types of companies. Um, and I believe that over time that, uh, most people will choose which company to work for based on frequency match, not based and mission alignment, not based on experience credentials, how much funding they have. And that they will live a much better life, um, and a variety of reasons by choosing a company differently than how we've been taught to in the past.

Toni: So let [00:37:00] me just kind of maybe try and give you a dichotomy and you, you helped me navigate this. Um, yeah.

Defining Success Beyond Financial Metrics
---

Toni: Is it better to have, um, better in the sense of, let's just say that as successful outcome of the business, and let's just say that depends how you define success. Let say that. I know, I know, I know, I know.

But let's just do it in the financial world, right? Would it be better for the organization to be higher in frequency? Um, or would it be much more important that everyone is on the same frequency, albeit maybe a little bit lower, right? Kind of what, what is, what is better, what is worse? Um, if you will, because I could imagine, well, if everyone is in the same, you know, in sync, so to speak.

Isn't that, isn't that a good thing as well? Right? Kind of. Isn't, isn't that helping? You know, doesn't that feel efficient, so to speak? Right? So how, how should people think about it? Is it always a good thing to be in a higher frequency organization, or should they rather be looking for a match to their frequency?

Chris Walker: I don't believe in determining good and bad. I don't believe in [00:38:00] duality anymore. It just is the way it is. Um, but I think that it is time to question what we believe is normal around building a company, right? So most of the people listening to this podcast think that it's normal to raise venture capital and go through a bunch of venture capital rounds, and that 1% of them actually become a unicorn.

And less than 5% in total are determined as successful exits. And the other 94% do not have a quote unquote successful definition. So, hmm. Is this the way that it should work? That 94% of the companies are not quote unquote successful. Um, and so at some point somebody's gotta, like, somebody's gotta be here and say like, I know that everybody thinks that this is the way to do it, and that they feel like they have to, or that they should, or that it's the only way to do it.

Um, but it doesn't, it [00:39:00] doesn't feel right to me. You got better odds going and playing fucking blackjack or, or roulette with your life. Um, and so just by the pure statistics, right? Um, now another thing unfolds about what does success mean, right? Like, it, it opens up a whole new thing. What are we trained?

What is everybody programmed in of what success means? Success means external milestones and achievements, making money, raising funding rounds, getting validation, having followers, buying a house, having a Ferrari, getting married, everything outside of us. If we just collect all this stuff, then maybe we'll feel better.

That is a tier one operating frequency. We've already been through it. And what you find. Is that every time you achieve something that you don't actually feel better. Maybe you feel good for a couple of days, but it doesn't last. It's not sustainable because you are outsourcing your own happiness and self-worth to something else. And when we redefine success based on how we feel, [00:40:00] how we're showing up, how sustainable our life is, how energized we are, how intrinsically motivated we are to do it, how much clarity we feel, how happy we feel about the people that we're around, how much freedom we feel in all different areas of our life.

And when we change the definition of success, our everything changes. Um, and just because everyone's told us that this is what success means on external milestones, doesn't mean that you have to believe it. Um, I have, uh, published a podcast on invisible contracts. It was the most recent one. If people wanna look at that, the success contract about external milestones is one of them.

It's an unspoken agreement. That we are conditioned and told by work, family, media, society, about how the world works. And then we unknowingly agree that that's the way the world will work for us. And it doesn't have to be that way. And so, um, it just, it, it creates a bunch of different layers in the conversation.

Um, and you can do the same thing, right? So let's talk about a [00:41:00] founder. That's, that builds a $10 million business, right? One founder can be operating in tier two. His whole team feels stress and burnout. Him or her work 80 hours a week. They fee, they then end up getting divorced 'cause they're not focused on their family and other areas of their life.

Then they start fe being overweight or unhealthy. They have health challenges. Um, they're showing up trying to prove stuff to people. Investors put pressure on them to hit their goals. When something goes wrong, then they're having this big blow up meeting about everything's going wrong, what are we gonna do?

Finger pointing happens. It's a fucking disaster. Nobody wants to be in it. And then you can have the same person building a $10 million company that's operating in tier four, tier five. And everyone there feels like they're meant to be, they're aligned to the mission. Everything's happening on time.

There's no scarcity. Who cares about competition? If we don't hit a metric that's all good. That's just showing us that there are way places that we can improve. And when you show up differently, everybody [00:42:00] feels different than you don't have as much turnover, than you have more coherence, then you have less churn with customers.

You have a better community. You have lower customer acquisition costs. You can translate this perfectly into tangible business metrics about why it could be a good idea for you to consider. I'm not trying to convince anyone of this. I'm simply inviting you to consider a different perspective.

Toni: I mean, to me, listening to this sounds, um.

'cause yes, we can have a philosophical conversation on what is reality, what is good and bad and all that stuff. But at the end of the day, um, things are going, you know, things are happening in a business, you know, leave it outside. What, what is good and what is bad here?

The Power of Choice and Awareness
---

Toni: But what you're talking about is, well, it's your choice how to react to it.

Right? And kind of the, the, the way that choice is being determined is also what your mindset is going into that situation and coming out of that, you can look at this from a scarcity perspective of like, oh, we are behind. You need to work harder, you know? Is it the, the [00:43:00] 6, 6, 9 or something like that right now?

9, 9 6. Um, ew. Um, and, um, uh, six, six line. Maybe that was a Scandinavian version, I'm not sure. But, um, uh, you know, now, now I lost my train of thought, but ultimately it's, it's, it's a decision for you as a leader to make how to, you know, approach that, that issue that you're facing.

Chris Walker: Yeah. But here is the most important thing maybe that we talk about in this whole podcast, that for most people, you don't realize you have a choice.

It is happening subconsciously. It is automated programming that you have received over your entire life about how the world works. You just think that's the way it is, so you're not being like, oh yeah, like our product's delayed by three months and this competitor's like on our heels and a bunch of people are leaving our company like.

I can choose differently. No, you're not going through that process for yourself. You are pro automatically reacting to that situation. [00:44:00] Um, and so by adjusting our frequency and removing all of this programming, then you realize, oh, I've had a choice the whole time. And it becomes one of the most empowering ways to go about your life.

Examples of Different Company Frequencies
---

Chris Walker: Now, I'll give you an example, right? Because, um, uh, in two, two sides of the spectrum, right? So you have one, you have one company, and they have their executive team meeting $80 million company raising venture funding. They're trying to get to a hundred million. Now they're at Q3. They're definitely not gonna get there.

They don't have enough pipe. Retention isn't at on plan. They're definitely not gonna get there, right? What happens in that meeting? People think we failed. We're not gonna hit this goal like it's a binary pass or fail. Then what happens then? People feel urgency and pressure. What are we gonna do? Let's start thinking short term.

Let's go do a bunch of random acts of shit to try to make, try to make up for this and get like disobey our values and what we believe in our [00:45:00] integrity to try to hit this plan. Then people start acting through urgency and they feel pressure and then they, their I, they don't have good ideas anymore because now they're under all this pressure.

And then if you start finger pointing at people and then you fire someone that doesn't actually need to be fired because it's the system and the frequency that is broken, not the people usually. Um, and so that's one example. Now, I'm not tooting my own horn here, right? I'm just giving you an example because something like this happened to me recently and I have at different frequencies reacted in that way.

In my business, everything's going wrong. What are we gonna do? It drives finger pointing. It gets people to feel that, feel those feelings and take actions from those intentions as a leader. Now, a couple of days ago. It was pretty clear that our product launch is gonna be delayed by about two months because, um, while we were doing our beta, we learned a bunch of important stuff about how to make customers successful that we didn't know before that.

And [00:46:00] the whole team is showing up on this zoom knowing that we're gonna be late and all of them have this default programming. If I'm gonna come into the room and talk about how everything's going wrong and how we need to go faster and what are we gonna do, and I show up and say, this is great, this is a good thing.

I'm not in a rush. What's important is that we make an impact for customers, do the right thing. This is giving us an opportunity. We learn something that we didn't know. Now we can do it. There's no, I don't need this company to grow faster so I can impress other people. I don't need our investors to give me a pat on the back.

I don't need to raise a funding round. I don't need stuff for people. So what the fuck is the rush? Right. And uh, I'd love, 'cause I think you're probably gonna go there, but I think we should go into urgency. Um, and I think that we should go into extractive capital as two things that people should be aware of and the impacts of those.

Toni: So there certainly is, you know, I, I heard you had some zingers for the, the VC community here.

The Role of Urgency and Pressure
---

Toni: Um, but actually my, my first thing is actually why is urgency so bad? [00:47:00] You know, so I, I grew up in this environment, um, I believe, and maybe it's a limiting belief. Maybe it's, you know, I'm wrongly coded or something, but I do believe that, um, uh, sometimes pressure can be a good thing.

Sometimes having a motivation to run a little faster can be a good thing. I also believe that a lots of really, really hard things on this planet have been achieved through some of those mechanisms that are maybe not the most healthiest ones. Right. Can you, can you try and reconcile that world for me?

Um, you know, how, how does, how does that, how it work out? How can, how can something that is apparently in a lower frequency. Still have a positive societal impact, right? We can, you know, I I, I wrote some crazy examples here, but, but that is, that is what's, what's hard for me to swallow. Let's, let's just say it like that.

Chris Walker: Yeah. So, so first off, uh, looking back in history and saying, because those people did that thing and achieve that [00:48:00] thing, that must mean that I should do it too. I would question that, right? Mm-hmm. Because in the 19, 1950s, every, all the most popular people were smoking cigarettes, and it was the coolest thing to do.

And just because they did it, then everybody else in society also did it. And then eventually we figured out, oh, actually, maybe I shouldn't do that. Maybe there's a different thing to do, right? So it's in, it's fine to look back and know that people accomplished things by this, but to then look at how our life is and how the world works now and to make a, make a decision for ourselves.

Now, what does urgency imply? What does it imply when you're in a rush? It means I'm lacking something. I'm afraid of something. I'm afraid of falling behind. I don't have enough. There's not enough time. If I don't do it, somebody else is gonna get it, which implies a zero sum game. All of the underlying intentions in urgency are driven from fear and lack.[00:49:00]

Now, what happens is that when you feel urgency, you then do things that are short term and that ignore your intuition and your values and the things that are right that you believe are right for you. You lose touch with that element 'cause you're in a survival, scarcity type of programming and you're trying to survive, right?

It distorts value. People that are in a rush to hire people, what happens? You hire the wrong person 'cause you're in a rush. It distorts your perception and it impacts the decisions that you make because you're trying to go faster and it leads you most often to going slower in the long run. It feels like you're going faster, but you're actually not.

Um, and so to reframe this idea of that, what actually matters is clarity. [00:50:00] That knowing where we're going, why we're going there, and how, and not even how, what, where we're going and why we're going there is the most important thing. And the only way that you can get clarity is to remove yourself from urgency.

And so by definition, if you believe that clarity is important, and if you buy into the concept that I can't get clarity through just, you know, fluttering around doing random stuff to try to survive. That you realize that being in urgency does not, it creates the illusion of speed. That is for sure. Um, but I think many would argue, including myself, that in the long run, it doesn't actually get you anywhere faster.

Toni: When we are talking about venture capital, which probably almost everyone listening to this is on the receiving end of that, I think, um, [00:51:00] how does that, let's just kind of make it simple. How does that induce urgency? AKA, um, this push for what I, you know, what you just said, this, this fake time pressure, uh, to do and kind of doing the wrong things because of it.

Chris Walker: Perfect. Yeah. So, uh, I think to set here.

Impact of Venture Capital on Company Frequency
---

Chris Walker: I am not saying anything negative here about venture capital. My audience is the founders and the people that work at companies and the customers and the partners of those companies. And so to just shift it, I am demonstrating to you how this works that I hadn't seen for most of my life.

And now that I understand it, I believe that everyone should have the opportunity to understand what's happening. The frequency of a company, which we've already talked about, starts at the capital stack so that if it's bootstrapped, it starts with the, the, the owner or the people that have that. If it's investors, then it starts with the investors and the, the combination of the capital stack, [00:52:00] then it permeates to the, the leader, the CEO, or the founder, right?

So if you do not have investors, then as a founder, then you have the highest leverage on the frequency of the company. If you have investors, you no longer. Then it permeates to the leadership team and then it ripples throughout the company, right? So that is the how it moves. And over time, everyone in the company will assimilate to that frequency.

Now, when you decide to, uh, raise venture capital, and this is not against venture capital, let's be more clear here. Let's call it extractive and misaligned capital, which often is venture capital, but it could come from debt, private equity, your random friends and family round. It could actually come from anywhere, right?

So it's extractive capital and misaligned capital that comes with misaligned expectations. And then all of a sudden, your company now exists to please investors instead of make an impact for the world and customers. [00:53:00] And when this happens, fear, uh, urgency extraction and control ripple through the company.

Um, the way that you relate to metrics, the way that you relate to pace, the way that you relate to, um, relationships, employee experience, all these different things fundamentally change. Now, if a founder is at a tier one frequency and they didn't raise any capital, then they would still create a tier one low frequency company, right?

So this is not just that the capital does this, right? And you could bring in an investor that is highly mission aligned and operates at a high frequency, and you could have really positive impacts that way. But how it works in real life today, for the most part, is that the, the capital is extractive. It creates pressure, urgency, competition, scarcity, winner take all zero sum type of games.

And then that causes all these different things inside the company. Um, [00:54:00] and so that is the, uh. And I, I, I, it's, I just have to go back to the statistics, right? Like, um, for most people to sign up for this and to know that five, 5%, one out of 20 companies, quote unquote succeeding in, in their eyes is, is the benchmark or the successful period, um, makes you question.

And then the ability to create a company today without raising 1,000 millions of dollars is totally possible. Sure, there are some, some small segment of companies that are going for global scale and have a ma and they can do them. Actually. Everyone can do whatever they want. Um, but just being aware of, of how it actually works, I think is, has been really insightful for me and others.

Toni: Thinking about this capitalist structure, obviously creating. Urgency and growth. You know, when you talk, when I ask people what does growth actually mean, they always talk about a IR going in one direction. They never talk about the [00:55:00] time component to it, but that's actually what growth is like. There's ar increase in a specific amount of time and that brings with it urgency and that brings with it kind of the, you know, investment and the return and so forth, right.

So I get that, but now you have a leader, you have a leadership team.

Leadership and Frequency Alignment
---

Toni: Um, they can apparently choose or train their own frequency. Isn't there kind of a, you know, are, are, are you beholden to then the, the, the capital stack frequency or, or can lead step in and interject and, and create a different. Frequency for the rest of the company.

Maybe then, then they have to the board of directors.

Chris Walker: Yep. So let's prote, let's pretend you're the, the, uh, chief Product Officer, right? Okay. So any, any executive that's not the CEO, right? And your company has raised an A and a B, and now you're $50 million into the venture capital on your cap table, right?

Um, and you're the CPO and you're like, I, uh, I'm ready. Like I can, I, I wanna make an impact here. I wanna do something [00:56:00] different. I'm gonna train my frequency, right? And then all of a sudden you go from, and you start to become aware, and now you're at a tier three or even a T tier four frequency. What you will realize is that the right option is to leave, not to try to, not, to try to fix it.

It won't even, it won't even be a decision, it will be obvious. There is a clear mismatch here. This is negatively impacting every area of my life. I, I feel drained just coming to this meeting or interacting in these areas. That you don't notice when you're in tier one. If you are in the same frequency as the company, you won't even notice that it's off.

When you become a mismatch to the company, you will leave. Um, and so, and to recognize the, the levels, right? So if you're the CPO and then you, all of a sudden you say, okay, I'm gonna try to make an impact here. I'm gonna have everyone go through this process. One, you cannot do that. Everybody must make this choice for themselves and to try to drag someone to do something they don't want to do, um, will drain your energy and will [00:57:00] become very, very painful now.

And the second thing is that you will not change the, the goals and the objectives of the funds that you have already been raised. You will not, you will not change how those, those, those people think about the return on their capital that they agreed to two years ago. Um, and so the where you will land is I am going to go and use my skills and talents at a company that is a frequency match that I'm aligned to the mission.

And when you start, you will choose your next endeavors in a lot of a different way than you have before. And many people, as they elevate their frequency, will say, I'm going to do this on my own. It would be energizing for me to build a company so that I can decide whether we raise capital and I can decide and drive the frequency of the company and that I want to do that.

Right. And so it's the, the statement here is not to make people feel disempowered. It is mm-hmm. Uh, to, to [00:58:00] communicate the truth.

Toni: I haven't thought in this concept previously, of course. Uh, but what I have seen, can I just say I was the level one, level two, I don't know, level minus one guy here. Um. I have seen that leaders around me or below me have, um, built their part of the organization in a different mold.

Um, now, you know, talking to you, I would say like I was frequency of this and there were frequency that, um, you don't think that's, I mean, it certainly wasn't fun for them. Let's just be clear about that. Right. Kind of trying to manage two different frequencies at the same time, I guess. But, um, but leaders at least, uh, and I've seen this many, many times, also just want to step in, you know, in front of the team and shield them.

There's sometimes a bit of a, a conversational leadership, like, Hey, uh, my job is to keep the crazy and the chaos away from everyone, you know, under me in the organization isn't this, isn't this very similar [00:59:00] to this actually. Um, and that's, that's why I'm asking like, is, is the only, is it really the only way to step away and leave?

Or, or is there, is there another solution here?

Chris Walker: I see how that sounds noble. And how you could tell a story up to yourself about how you're doing a good thing. But when you actually raise your frequency, you will find that you have zero tolerance for mismatch, that you are so sensitive to how all the other things around you are impacting you and rippling throughout your entire life, that you have zero tolerance for fucking bullshit like that.

And so, yes, at a tier one or a tier two, especially in tier two, you default to being a people pleaser or being pretending to be high vibe. But ignoring these things is a common sign that yes, at those types of tiers, yes, you will feel a little bit better and you can shield your team and you can work within the system.

Um, but as you continue to elevate your frequency, it will become intolerable. You will, [01:00:00] you will eject yourself immediately. And that could be a good indication too, um, because this, the idea of, of martyrdom or sacrificing yourself for others. Uh, does not exist in higher frequencies. You have such respect for yourself that you will not allow it.

Toni: So, so advice for everyone listening to this. Don't send this episode to anyone else. Uh, but, but seriously, isn't there, you know, I'm just trying to think of it like, at least as a CEO, let's, yes, you have venture capital funded, but you, you do have a choice here for your organization. And let's also be honest about it.

I mean, you see this board every three months, right? And sure, there's, there's the, there's the pressure on you can, at least the CEO of an organization change something here, or is that, I mean, how, how does that work?

Chris Walker: Um, everybody has the freedom to do whatever they want. Now, as a CEO, you made the decision to raise venture capital, right?

You could restructure [01:01:00] the cap table, sell 30% of your shares, pay off the investors, and then build your company from there. You could. Is that something that you're going to do? Maybe, maybe not. So there are ways like, um, so you, you, you do have options. The question is, are you operating in a frequency where you see that as a potential option or not?

If you were trying to maximize your financial gain, you will stay in the rat race. You will not do that. Um, and so, uh, and perhaps you're able to educate, invest the, your investors about how to do it. And I encourage you to, to go through that endeavor and let me know how it goes. Maybe it works, I don't know.

Um, but uh. Uh, so yeah, everybody can do that. But as you start getting into quote unquote, like lower, I don't like the hierarchy, but that's how most companies operate into lower levels of the organization. Your ability to impact this goes almost to zero, and it's more, [01:02:00] it's more called tolerating. Mm-hmm.

Than, than shifting or making an impact. Yeah.

Toni: One or two final questions, at least from my side, is really the, some of these concepts resonate because they don't necessarily feel, um, new. Right. Some of these things have been discussed for millennials. Right. And, you know, as we, as we chatted a little bit, you know, leading up to this.

I was like, Hey, some of this reminds me actually of stoicism, some of that actually reminds me of, of Buddhism you just mentioned the, the, the martyr and, you know, dying. I mean, that's, that's Christianity right there, right? I mean, what's the, is there a connection? You know, and I don't want to pull this in this direction by the way, but, um, I think some of those folks, and they were also just people by the way, came up with some of those concepts and popularized them a lot and actually helped people a lot.

Right? It feels like some of these pieces are connected. There's a parallel here, which I actually almost see more as, no, this is [01:03:00] real, rather, oh, this is, you know, um, this is boring because it's been there already. I think this is a translation of what has been to what is what is here right now.

Chris Walker: Yes. So, um, I guess the way to put it simply.

Is that, um, as you increase your frequency, all you do is you just remember the truth. You remember about how the world actually works, how you're, how, how you could show up the things that you're capable of doing and that when you remove the conditioning. So this is not, nothing that I'm sharing here is, is new.

Mm-hmm. There's actually no new ideas on the world. It's just whether or not you're operating at a frequency to access the idea that already exists. And so, um, historically, however, when we were in the information era and we were in the industrial era, society did not value frequency because the value was driven by how you used your hands or how you used your brain.

And so what people did is they [01:04:00] put it off to the side and said, those people are weird. Let's send them to a mental institute. Let's call it woo and dismiss it. People can go do their religion thing. This isn't for, for me, right? A majority of people might say that and push it away. Now, from 2010 to two thou to now, there was this evolution of empathy in the workplace, and empathy being a really important thing.

It wasn't just about how smart you are, it's how you relate to others. That was what's called a transition. And during that transition, the, the actual destination is operating through frequency. And so, um, one, once this shift happens and the information that you store in your brain is not as valuable, and then you realize, oh, the way that I show up, how I think about the world and about myself is the thing, the main thing that matters for my value as a human.

Then it will become common, then it will become commonly accepted. And when it's [01:05:00] commonly accepted, it is clear to me, and it will be to everyone, that this is an innate human skill. Everybody can learn it. It matters to everybody. It has positive impacts on every single person's life. And when you think about it, like a skill, like reading or using the internet or driving or something like that, you could take out all of the excuses that people have about, oh, that's spiritual.

I don't want anything to do with this. Um, and so I guess to put it, uh, to put it simply one, I'm, I'm communicating no new ideas here. I am packaging and sharing in a way that is entirely accessible. And have used technology tools in my own experience to be able to structure it in a way that is trainable and that everybody can follow.

Final Thoughts and Personal Journey
---

Toni: Maybe this is, this is a good place to put in the last question, um, which is okay. You know what, Chris, you're such a good storyteller and this totally makes sense [01:06:00] now that I listen to you. I totally get it. Uh, I've been thinking about it for an hour and a half while listening to this thing and I realized I'm in level one.

I'm miserable. What's the how to, I mean, there's obviously kind of different steps and evolutions, but what's kind of the easiest way to get started in, in progressing, um, into the right direction if you choose to do so?

Chris Walker: Totally. Uh, I mean specifically to the example of I'm operating in tier one, I would recommend that you go to the We Are Encoded podcast and listen to the episode titled Invisible Contracts.

Like that would be a huge one, and when you can recognize. Like these rules, quote unquote rules or contracts that I've agreed to about how society works isn't how it has to be. That is like one of the main transitions from tier one to tier two, and you will, as you start to question that illusion. You will feel a different level of, of freedom already.

Um, eventually I think it, uh, it boils down to, uh, awareness and [01:07:00] intentional training about how we perceive the world, how we perceive ourselves, what's possible for us, how the world, uh, could work, not how it has to work. Um, so there are, and we're working at encoded to build, uh, what we call a frequency training system.

Um, a way that everyone is able to train their frequency just like they train their body using fitness. And there's a bunch of different modalities inside of fitness, cardio, running, rowing, strength training, chest press, back exercises, yoga, Pilates, that there'll be tons of different ways to train your frequency and that people will be able to identify and choose which ones work the best for them and build their own frequency training routine.

Um, and so that is part of, uh, our phase one vision,

Toni: Chris. Thank you so much for sharing this well, this journey and this insight. Um, and I also, frankly, I don't think this is a super easy leap. I think you're right. I think many people will put this in, what is it, kind the, the [01:08:00] woowoo, uh, woo kind of corner.

Um, and I think that's a shame. Uh, honestly think that's a shame. But I think it's awesome that you, uh, bring this forward and, um, and make this a topic because I think it deserves to be one. So thank you. Thank you so much for being, being here, Chris.

Chris Walker: Totally. Yeah. One, one last statement, if that was, that would be all right.

Um, 'cause I, like, I have been there, I lived for the first 33, 32 years of my life in tier one. I know what it feels like. And to be honest, I stumbled into this. Like, I just did some, did some things, and I landed where I am. And when it happened, I was like, everybody deserves to at least know that there is a different way to live their life.

That my life is a million times better than it was just two or three years ago. How I feel, how I show up the relationships, how inspired I feel, all these different things and [01:09:00] that this is entirely accessible to everyone. And so I invite you to, uh, to consider that. Um, and thank you very much for, uh, tuning in.

Toni: Wonderful, Chris Walk everyone. Cheers. Bye.

Next Week: Zoominfo's James Roth on AI in Sales and Marketing
---

Toni: Next week I'm talking to James Roth. He's the CRO of ZoomInfo. They're roughly running at 1.2 billion of a RR. We will talk about how AI is changing the game on a tangible level for him, both in sales and our marketing. And what's next for ZoomInfo If you don't wanna miss.

Consider subscribing to the channel and see you next week.

James: When you run any sort of AI workflow or any sort of AI automation that's primarily just over CRM data, it really shines a light on just the impact of that bad data foundation. Irrespective of how cool or amazing the AI is, if it's running over 10 years of bad manually inputted data in CRM, you're just gonna probably miss [01:10:00] a lot more and a lot faster creating this dichotomy of AI native versus old dinosaurs.

It really is just marketing buzz so that people, you know, it allows you to diminish, you know, certain companies or, or again, sort of increase your sex appeal. In the world of LinkedIn, AI native founders are just people that founded companies in a world of ai, and so maybe they've got a leg up, maybe. You know, we've got a, a product and engineering team of 1200.

We've got the ability to go build out, spend the amount we spend in r and d, hundreds of millions of dollars. If it's sitting on top of the same or similar AI foundation, I would probably bet on the company that's got 1200 product and engineering people that spends hundreds of millions of dollars on data than the AI native four really smart guys in a basement somewhere thinking about AI because they're in an AI world.