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"A LOT with Audra" is the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each episode, host, Audra Dinell, Midwestern wife, mom and neurodivergent multi-six figure entrepreneur encourages women to embrace their many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid discussions, practical strategies and inspiring stories, this podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process.
Ep46
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[00:00:00]
Audra Dinell: Hey everyone. Welcome back to a lot with Audra, the podcast for women juggling big dreams and full lives. Each Monday this year, I'm dropping a new episode aiming to encourage you to embrace your many roles holistically by living a values-based life with confidence and joy. Through candid conversations, practical strategies, and inspiring stories.
This podcast is your guide to designing and achieving success without losing yourself in the process. I am so excited for today, y'all.
Meet Paige McPheely: CEO and Co-founder of Base
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Audra Dinell: My guest, Paige McPheely, is the CEO and Co-founder of Base, a venture backed company reimagining how leaders [00:01:00] do their best work with over a decade of experience scaling remote teams and building both services and software.
She helps founders delegate strategically protect their time and lead sustainably. She's also a mom of three and a passionate advocate for redefining what leadership looks like. Welcome to the podcast
Paige McPheely: Thank you so much. I'm so glad to be here.
Paige's Journey to Productivity
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Audra Dinell: So for anyone who is new to your work, will you tell us a little bit about what led you to start thinking differently about productivity and kind of doing it all?
Paige McPheely: Yes, absolutely. Well, I think it's really two things. One, given my vantage point at Base, I've seen and worked with so many leaders who come to us who are, they're usually past the point of being underwater and burnt out. And they really need help. And so seeing them go through the process of realizing they need help, giving themselves permission to get help, getting the help and then offloading and the transformation of what that looks like is pretty amazing.
Then the second [00:02:00] piece is just my own life. I had three kids in three years at the same time.
Rethinking Success and Expectations
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Paige McPheely: I was started two different businesses, and I'm married to a serial entrepreneur, and it's just like, gosh, why am I carrying around this backpack full of expectations that. I picked up unknowingly, you know, like no one else is forcing me to do that.
And so just rethinking what does it actually mean to be successful.
Audra Dinell: I have a picture of you in my head, like unzipping your backpack and looking at the rocks. Rock by rock, like,
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: did this get in here? Did I put this in
Paige McPheely: Right. Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of really stupid stuff, you know, somehow I got it in my head that when I was fundraising, I needed to have my nails painted. It's like I needed to be so buttoned up that I didn't wanna be judged or looked at a certain way. It's like, why the hell am I trying to fit in a manicure before I do this?
A lot of stuff like that,
Audra Dinell: Oh, I love that. What an interesting detail.
Living in Spain: A Different Pace of Life
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Audra Dinell: And you also live in Spain, [00:03:00] so that has to be wonderful and beautiful and add some complications to life.
Paige McPheely: Yeah. Yeah, all of the above. In true Spanish fashion, our kids have a two and a half hour break in the middle of their school day, and so
Audra Dinell: Oh, that's so cool
Paige McPheely: it is, uh.
Audra Dinell: them.
Paige McPheely: For them, right? But then they still have to go back to school only for two hours and they don't finish school till five. So it's just a very, very different pace of life that has taken some getting used to and some creativity.
Audra Dinell: Mm, interesting.
Balancing Leadership and Parenting
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Audra Dinell: I'm thinking about your vantage point too. Building a business supporting founders and that parallel to parenting where it's like we tell our kids, or the old school saying of. Do what I say, not what I do, and you not wanting to, be supporting founders while amidst your own potential burnout
Paige McPheely: [00:04:00] Yes. Yeah, absolutely. We were just having the same conversation whether or not these people were working with the Bay CA or they're just fellow founders. I realized this. I'm so not alone. Yet, being a founder and a leader can feel really lonely and, but the more of these conversations you have, it's like, gosh, we are all exhausted and feel like we have too much on our plate and waking up every day already feeling behind.
So yeah. It's been a very, very interesting journey and I feel like a lot of the advice and coaching that I give is stuff I need to hear myself, so it can be helpful.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Well, and I know the women listening to our podcast are going to really soak up your advice too, because in the women's leadership organization that I run here, this comes up a lot. It doesn't really matter where you live in the world or what industry you're in. Nonprofit to entrepreneurship, to climbing the ladder of corporate America.
There [00:05:00] is just this undercurrent that we are all
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. And I think as women for sure, and then as mothers, that don't like the term. Double standard, but I think we are just doing more than one job always. And so, that juggle is exhausting if we're not really, really careful, and even then, it's still probably a little exhausting.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. It's almost like you can't get out of the exo exhaustion, but you can be a little bit
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm. I like that.
Audra Dinell: So speaking of just being intentional with the stretch of everything that we might be holding, what's something that you see high performing women believe about?
The Lie of Doing It All
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Audra Dinell: What productivity is that actually you would say is a lie?
Paige McPheely: Yes. Oh, that's a really good one. So I think as women. Who are developing into leaders and are currently leading, there's a lot of [00:06:00] pressure to feel like we've got it all together. We've got all the answers, we are buttoned up. We've got our shit together, and I think the, the female leaders that I see do it really well.
Accept their strengths and their weaknesses and they outsource, they have given themselves permission to be helped in whatever form EAs are. Some of that, but maybe it's also someone picking up your kids from school. They lean into help and have a network of help around them, and that's what allows them to be the great leaders that they are.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, so the lie then would be I have to do it all and I have to do it all myself, and I have to do it all. Perfectly well looking, perfectly
Paige McPheely: Yep. I think so.
Audra Dinell: what a bad boy did, deconstruct.
Paige McPheely: Yes.
Audra Dinell: So how can founders, high achievers leaders we have several different types of women who listen to this podcast.
Healthy Ambition vs. Hustle Addiction
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Audra Dinell: How can they recognize the difference between healthy ambition and hustle [00:07:00] addiction?
Paige McPheely: Yes, I firmly believe that our ambition should have room to breathe. We should be able to be wildly ambitious and successful without killing ourselves. And so. If the drive there is to show how ambitious you are and to prove a point. I think you might wanna reconsider how you're spending your time of what really lights you up.
Are you taking the rest periods and taking care of yourself or is it because what you're doing also lights you up? And it can be both at the same time. And I feel that all of the time, but our ambition should not come at the cost of our wellbeing.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. You know, I have to see sort of a movement of women even redefining ambition and including just radical, I guess I wanna say. Wellness and self care. That's not probably really radical, but it feels [00:08:00] radical and including that in their definition of ambitious. Like I can have a full beautiful, well a calm
Paige McPheely: Mm.
Audra Dinell: brain, I can have rest, and I can have a vocation that
Paige McPheely: Yeah,
Audra Dinell: is purposeful and a family that I give to and that fills me
Paige McPheely: right. I think when you think about the actual definition of ambition, that is quite ambitious. And then we've got our like business way that we think about ambition. And I love to see when people do that because it takes so much more. Bravery and intention behind how you spend your time. And that fuel is what allows you to really build momentum that's sustainable instead of like, you are in the trenches for years and then you crash and maybe you take a week off, but you're just right back into it.
That's not a grind I want any part of.
Audra Dinell: Mm-hmm. Well, and I just love to hear people boldly [00:09:00] claim that, you know, I think there's even a little bit of, gosh, maybe I want this, but am I, am I gonna allow myself to say this and say this publicly go against the grain?
Paige McPheely: Yes, it's a bit counter-cultural for sure.
Outsourcing: Creative Solutions
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Audra Dinell: So, jumping back to outsourcing, I'm wondering what are some of the most interesting things that you've seen people outsource, the EAs are so helpful to founders and leaders. You mentioned someone picking your kids up. In our community we talk about outsourcing, housekeeping, keeping, what, what?
Interesting. You have to have some interesting things that you've seen.
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: I guess,
Paige McPheely: yes. Well, there's the one that always comes to mind for me is. An assistant can actually learn your handwriting, and so you can still dictate whatever you want in a handwritten note, and they can learn your handwriting and mail a handwritten note on your behalf. So you're still putting the thoughtfulness behind it, but like, what a great source of outsourcing.
But we're seeing a lot of our assistants [00:10:00] really lean into. Evolving technology. What is coming? How can I amplify myself so that I'm providing even more leverage downstream and leaning on your assistant to be, the leader of that and really helping you think bigger about how you wanna work and being your, I always think of the analogy of a great assistant really points you like an arrow where you need to be going.
And there's so many ways to do that. My assistant kind of runs my whole life. She's out this week and I'm like, oh, I have to check email and I don't know what's happening. 'cause she just distills everything for me.
Audra Dinell: Mm, how beautiful. And I wow that. That is very creative. The handwritten
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: that's one thing I would think that cannot be outsourced
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Thanks for sharing that. That's so fun.
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Managing Time as an Entrepreneur and Mother
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Audra Dinell: What's one practical shift that you have made being an entrepreneur, being a mother, starting multiple businesses that has [00:11:00] changed your relationship with time specifically?
Paige McPheely: This isn't an easy one, but we've tried to think really critically about how I'm spending my time and when I'm having meetings both internal and externally and trying to create. A day, two, sometimes three days, where you don't have meetings where you're back of the house and you can really think and write and produce something of value has been really meaningful.
It's not always possible for everybody, but it is possible to still create, create those pockets of time and put in whatever those things are that are really invigorating to you. For me, it's. Just a walk outside looking at leaves on trees. Even that is huge for me. And you can create those pockets, even if you can't carve out two to three days of your week without meetings and being strapped to a computer.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. So for you, you sort of created an ideal week of, an ideal week for me would [00:12:00] be maybe deep work on Mondays and Fridays and Wednesdays, and meetings on Tuesdays or and
Paige McPheely: Exactly.
Audra Dinell: that
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: like?
Paige McPheely: yes. And then I have an advantage being six hours ahead of the East Coast where my mornings are very different now. They're very quiet. My meetings don't start usually till 3:00 PM and so I have a lot. It's a lot easier to not get sucked in if no one's awake.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Paige McPheely: It's been great.
Audra Dinell: I can relate. I live in the Midwest currently and moved from Hawaii and did work for some clients in Hawaii for a year, and their days would start, I think about noon my time. And so my mornings just felt so luxurious, you know, for, for people. I guess here's one thing that people might be able to relate to.
Living in the Midwest is sometimes. Weekends tend to be that time where one is online and you can have some quiet time, [00:13:00] but then you're working on the weekend after you've
Paige McPheely: Right.
Audra Dinell: and you're trying to catch up.
Paige McPheely: Right. Yeah. So is it catching up or, because that's when you're really in your flow and are you reclaiming that free time elsewhere? I think probably for most of us, we're not. It's just extra.
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Deep Work and Blocking Distractions
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Audra Dinell: I wonder if you have any tips for how, when someone's having a deep workday, how to block out the distractions, how to block out the noise when they've intentionally set their. Day to do deep work to take the walk, or even if it's just, you know, like a morning. Do you have any thoughts on if you're going to do that and be intentional, get it done in your
Paige McPheely: Yes.
Audra Dinell: do you block off the distractions that are gonna come because those are other people's working hours.
Paige McPheely: Right. Well, let's assume you've been able to protect your time on your calendar and you don't have meetings. It sounds so obvious, but close down all of your apps. Like literally close them, leave your phone in another room. I think it's really easy to go into do not disturb, but then we might still click into stuff or somehow we might [00:14:00] see it.
I think that is really, really important and fewer people than we might think do it and then have a, have a ritual or a routine that you do to kind of. Begin and end. Maybe you journal the same question at the start and the end, or you take a walk and that's your entry period, and then you eat a certain snack at the end, like give yourself a treat at the end of it to reenter your day.
But those signals can help turn your brain on and off for that type of mode.
Audra Dinell: Oh, I love the word ritual too. That just feels luxurious. What about, here's where my brain goes. I'm like, if my phone's in the other room, what if my kid's school calls.
Paige McPheely: Yeah. Well if you're doing that for the full day, maybe you wanna have some other option. But if we're talking about a morning, it's probably gonna be okay. And schools make us give 10 different phone numbers for a reason. Right.
Audra Dinell: Yes. My kids do have a dad that also has a
Paige McPheely: Right. Yeah, exactly.
Audra Dinell: [00:15:00] Yeah.
Paige McPheely: Yep.
Juggling Parenthood and Professional Life
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Audra Dinell: So, so many of us are speaking of motherhood. So many of us are building businesses or big parts of our careers while also raising a family and. It's such a tension. And on my team we talk about how it's a healthy tension.
It's a tension we want, but it's still sometimes. So what,
Paige McPheely: Yes.
Audra Dinell: how do you manage that tension in your world with kids?
Paige McPheely: Yes, there's kind of the, the advice page and then there's the real page, right, where I understand the advice, but in practice it's messier. But I always think of this analogy of we are constantly juggling if. Especially as founders and as parents and mothers. And so we're juggling all these different things and we're juggling the balls on the personal side, and we're juggling them on the professional side.
And I believe that some of the things we're juggling are made of glass and some of them are made of plastic. And knowing the difference between the two, because sometimes you're gonna have to drop a personal plastic. ball In order to not drop a professional glass [00:16:00] one, and that's okay. So trying to just be human and realistic about what I can actually achieve.
And then having communication, age appropriate communication with your kids about it. Like, here's the decision I made where I can't be there to, you know, do whatever it is you would do for your kids because of this situation. And I think there are age appropriate ways to do it. You know, for most ages
Audra Dinell: what's a ball and a plastic ball in your life if you would share?
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Because sometimes I think I have a hard time deciding this glass?
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: Is this plastic?
Paige McPheely: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Well, and I have a hard time when I travel for work, which I'm not, thankfully, not in a season at the moment where I'm traveling a lot, but I had a parent who left very suddenly as a child, and I've realized like, oh my gosh, that really brings up a lot for me.
But if I'm traveling, it's a glass ball for work. Like there's a reason, there's a definite purpose behind it. But glass balls [00:17:00] on the. On the kids' side are, to me it's really important to be regularly be home when they get home and help them go, go through their backpack and let's look at your assignments and that little, we try to make it into a ritual to do that on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean I'm breaking the ball if I cannot do it.
Every single day. So I kind of try to distinguish between those two of like, this is meaningful, but I'm not gonna do it perfectly. And that's the plastic part of it.
Audra Dinell: Yeah, I always think 80% if I am,
Paige McPheely: that.
Audra Dinell: we live close to my kids' school, so I get to walk them to school. I have a 9-year-old and a 6-year-old, two boys, and I get to walk them to that elementary school and, you know, fall is like the best time to do that
Paige McPheely: That's perfect.
Audra Dinell: And I pick them up in the same way.
And you know, when I'm traveling for work like I am right now, I. a pickup and I missed a drop off. But I always think 80%, if I am doing this regularly, [00:18:00] 80% is the standard I hold myself to. Then it's a ritual in our
Paige McPheely: Right. And then they know you're there. And I think the glass ball part of it would be. Being fully with them when you're doing those walks instead of, because that context switching is really hard, right? I'm guessing it's in the middle of your workday when you're going to pick them up. When we lived in the States, we had the same setup and the flow, you're in a flow and then you're rushing out the door to get them, and it's so hard to not kinda bring that with you.
And so yeah, letting that go for a couple minutes and just being fully with them.
Audra Dinell: Yeah. Oh, that's a really great point. I find myself, on my best days, I have wrapped things up, and I have my phone not even with me or in my pocket, and I'm enjoying the weather and the, the 10 minutes before get outta school.
Paige McPheely: Yes.
Audra Dinell: best day. But on other days it is me like crossing the crosswalk and looking up from my phone, making sure I'm safe.
Right. But then like typing [00:19:00] out the last few things, sending a voice,
Paige McPheely: Yep.
Audra Dinell: and then stuffing my phone in my pocket right before right. Is the bell rings?
Paige McPheely: then your brain is like, okay, now I'm in full-time mom mode. And that could be really, really hard.
Audra Dinell: I'm really glad for me personally that we're talking about this. That is helpful. Thinking about that time as a ritual instead of the last 10 minutes that I have to get something productive done, even just that little, maybe that's a shift I will
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: that it's a ritual to walk to school and, get them, because it gives my brain
Paige McPheely: Yeah. I think working from home. Is so amazing, and I don't envy a commute any longer. I've had some gnarly commutes, but at least in that commute, you have a, defined period of transition. Instead of, I walk out those doors and I'm like in my kitchen and it's, the transition is, is done. And so without those
Audra Dinell: Yeah.
Paige McPheely: Rituals it [00:20:00] makes my brain so foggy when I'm not careful about it.
Audra Dinell: Mmm. That's a really good way to put it. And those are the little things that I feel like you have to be really intentional to catch. You have to be paying attention catch that type of brain fog because it's just sort of normal life if you let it be.
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: But you don't want it to
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Reprogramming Stress and Overwhelm
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Paige McPheely: It's interesting having come here with. I've got a pretty great schedule right now and I realized for the first handful of months I was still feeling behind and I've got too much on my plate, I'm busy. And I realized like, oh gosh, this is more muscle memory than reality in a lot of ways.
And I think. I don't know if enough people are talking about how deeply conditioned we are to be stressed and overwhelmed, and in fact, are we even trying hard enough if we're not stressed too busy? Which I feel really deeply like that. Allowing yourself [00:21:00] to reprogram yourself bit by bit is harder than it seems, but I think important if you're actually gonna find some ease.
Audra Dinell: Right now I am on a retreat with some fellow founders and we literally had that
Paige McPheely: Yes.
Audra Dinell: at dinner last night.
So I'm interested to hear Paige, how long have you been in Spain and how long did that shift take you to sort of like shake out that muscle memory?
Paige McPheely: Been here a year and a half, just about.
I wouldn't say I've completely shaken off that muscle memory,
but it's a constant reminder, like, yes, not only have I given my, myself permission to have this schedule, but my team is bought in. I've got support saying like, yes, this makes sense. We actually think this is gonna be best for the business and for you to have a little bit of space.
so it's just a lot of little reminders. As leaders, we are constantly shifting the goalpost forward. Like just once I reach that [00:22:00] milestone, then it'll calm down. If I can just raise that fund or close this deal or whatever, and realizing like what,
I already have all the things that I need, like just, just chill, Paige,
calm down, and that that has to be done a lot of times, but.
Maybe the first three, four months were the hardest where I really felt guilty and like I wasn't,
Pulling my weight.
Audra Dinell: Well I think that's another lie too that you, that you just shared that we tell ourselves that the goal post moving
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: and, you know, I'm sitting here, I just wrote a substack about all the things that I want to do and have done before the end of the year so that I can be present in the last couple weeks, you know, when my kids are home for the holidays.
And I have been convicted since I wrote that thinking. You know, gosh, really? Do I really need to get all of that done to be present? Or can I just be present? So I think that is just part of the lie, because there's always gonna be something else. There's always gonna be another goal or another to do.
Paige McPheely: always.
Audra Dinell: So [00:23:00] what advice would you give to women who feel like if they slow down, everything will fall apart or. What is your advice to those who might feel like slowing down means? Falling behind?
The Importance of Giving Yourself Permission
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Paige McPheely: I think the first thing that no one else can do for you is, think I've said this a few times already today. Give yourself permission. You have permission, you are worthy of it. And. In fact, you might even be, you will be better for it if you can just give yourself that space.
And then I think some, I'm a huge,
huge fan of morning pages.
Hand write three,
you know, not huge pieces of paper every
morning, and it's just dream of consciousness and it's amazing what will come up for you when you do that. Not even all that long, as long as you're doing it regularly. Like, why am I putting these walls up or barriers? Because I think that's part of the process of giving yourself permission is figuring out
baggage.
Are you lugging around [00:24:00] that's keeping you from doing it.
Audra Dinell: Hmm. I really love that tip.
Stream of conscious writing has been intimidating to me. I can journal, but to have a dedicated three pages every morning, I'm gonna do it until I
Paige McPheely: Yeah,
Audra Dinell: done.
Paige McPheely: little
Audra Dinell: gonna stop
Paige McPheely: notebook here. It's, you can see it's not very big.
Paige McPheely: And I just hand write three pages and you could say,
I don't wanna
write right now. Like, I have nothing to say. I have nothing to say. You could say that for three pages and that would be just as good as if you had this like amazing epiphany while you're writing.
It's just the routine of it. I think you access a different part of your brain.
Audra Dinell: That's good. That's good permission too.
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: You can just write whatever wanna
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm.
Audra Dinell: Even. I don't wanna write
Paige McPheely: Yeah.
Audra Dinell: so. Last question before we wrap. What is something that you ask yourself when you start to feel that old muscle memory [00:25:00] creep in that pressure to do it all?
Paige McPheely: Mm-hmm. I read this amazing book called the, I'm gonna probably not get it exactly right, the crossroads of Should and Must,
and it's written in a way that my brain does not work. It's by an artist who I think is also a lawyer, but very visual and it's a really remarkable book. But this idea of should and must,
and I believe we treat a lot of shoulds, like musts, I must, do all these things before the end of the year so that I can unplug and be with my kids. But is that true or is it a should that you have created for yourself? And so
trying to sit with that, and this is where morning pages can be really helpful, but trying to sit with, is this a should or a must?
You wanna do your must. Those are probably your glass balls, right?
And then the shoulds
probably can be dropped and then.
Oh, gosh, now I'm forgetting the name of this exercise too. But[00:26:00]
you can kind of work through what's the very worst case scenario if I don't do this? What would impacts my relationships or how would it impact my relationships and how might I go about recovering my relationships and any damage from the worst case scenario?
And it turns out
it's usually not very bad. You know, like if, insert whatever thing that you're fearing. It's usually Gonna be okay. And you see I would survive that just fine. And that can be helpful too.
Audra Dinell: Mm. I love those tips.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Audra Dinell: I'm gonna go back and re-listen to all of your words of Wisdom Wellness
Paige McPheely: Good.
Audra Dinell: Thank you so much. You just have a truly easeful. Energy and I just really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today.
Paige McPheely: Thank you so much for having me. I'm gonna tell my husband to listen to this so he can laugh at the easeful energy bit, but I'm working on it.
Paige McPheely: Yeah,
Audra Dinell: really? That's okay. That's, that is surprising to me. That's so
Paige McPheely: yeah.
Audra Dinell: me.
Paige McPheely: But that's good to hear.
Audra Dinell: can [00:27:00] our listeners find you work with you, et cetera?
Paige McPheely: Yeah, so if you are looking for an EA or just want more resources about
how to hire one or where to find one, we've got a ton of free stuff on there. Base hq.com. You can find more stuff about me@pagemcfeely.com. Yeah, LinkedIn as well. Paige McFeeley.
Audra Dinell: great. Well link those and yeah, your website is
Paige McPheely: Thank you.
Audra Dinell: admiring it and scrolling, so I would highly recommend check that
Paige McPheely: Wonderful.
Audra Dinell: you, Paige. It's been so
Paige McPheely: Thank you so much for having me.
Audra Dinell: Thank you