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The Legal Lunch Room, a new education law podcast from the KingSpry Law Firm, invites attorneys and school leaders to sit at our table and share how current education law trends and court decisions impact school boards, students and our community.
Jon
What's the school to do when caught in the middle between mom and dad? What's the
difference between physical and legal custody and what exactly is shared custody?
Understanding the intersection of education and family law is critically important to the
relationship between families and the school.
Rich
Parents have a fundamental liberty interest in directing the education of their children. But what
happens when parents don't agree on matters pertaining to their child's education? Today, we're
going to discuss how custody confidentiality and court orders can impact public school
operations when family situations get complex. I'm Rich Campbell.
Jon
And I'm Jonathan Huerta. We're attorneys with the KingSpry law firm in Bethlehem,
Pennsylvania. Welcome to the legal lunchroom. Each episode we look at the laws that affect
school boards, administrators, students, and our community. Thanks for tuning in.
Rich
Today, we're joined by education attorneys, Jessica Moyer and Paige Gross, Jess is the
managing partner at King Spry, and an incredibly respected, talented and experienced attorney.
And Paige is an up and coming associate with the firm. And we're lucky to have Paige for her
second appearance on the podcast. Both attorneys split their legal practice between the
education and family law worlds, giving them a unique perspective on the issues we'll be talking
about today. Jess, Paige, thanks so much for joining us.
Jess
Thank you Rich.
Paige
Thanks so much. Happy to be here.
Rich
So we're so happy to have you both. So let me ask you, normally, when you think of obligations
of a school to its students, and to the surrounding community, custody and family law issues are
not at the forefront of everyone's mind. Can you give us a sense of when this intersection of
issues comes into play,
Jess
People would be surprised how often school administrators are faced with family law issues.
The term parents is defined differently from the state level to the federal level, and there are
various federal laws that define them differently. So navigating that landscape, as well as you
know, day to day questions, who can pick up a student on this particular day transportation
issues, who has custody of the child and is a district required to provide transportation,
residency issues come into play where or with whom parent has custody of the child that
dictates where the child shall be enrolled in school, as well as on top of custody orders, a district
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could be presented with a protection from abuse order that deals with refraining an individual
from stalking, abusing, harassing another person. So we could see that come into play with
when you have two parents possibly that may have PFAs. One has a PFA against the other,
and that PFA can define custodial rights. And sometimes these PSAs will trump custody orders
that have already been put in place. So it is trying to interpret, you know, a custody order, a PFA
order, and where the child needs to be on any given time, especially when you have parents
who are calling, telling school administrators that this order says one thing when really it says
something different.
Rich
Right. Right. Well, thank you Jess, that gives us a really great global sense of the issues
presented. So let's focus on parents. What type of rights to parents have and why is this issue
so important?
Jess
Well, parents have, you know, rights concerning day to day decisions with regard to the
children, they also have certain rights concerning viewing documents relative to their students or
educational documents, they have rights to participate in parent teacher conferences, you know,
coming to assemblies, various school sponsored activities, and they have rights under FERPA,
the federal law, concerning their particular students educational records, and FERPA defines
parents different than what Paige and I see on a daily basis when you proceed to a court here in
Pennsylvania that defines parents legal rights. And then you have FERPA who defines parents
differently. So under FERPA parents have the right to inspect the records to see the records to
object if they believe there's an inaccuracy with regard to the records, you know, parents, the
other big intersect here is who has the right to make decisions on behalf of the child. And is it
one parent? Is it both parents? Is it a grandparent? Is it an aunt, an uncle, foster parents? So,
parents rights could be very far reaching and the definition of parents is very important so you
know who has these rights with regard to the educational records and the decision making
authority on behalf of the child. And then we also run into issues with emancipation. So that's
also very important. So is it the parent's obligation or the parents right, to sign documents to
waive their rights to certain things? Or is this child emancipated and now it is on the child to sign
off on certain documents and or to prove residency if it is questioned?
Rich
So what about that example you just gave of who can sign documents? Is there any specific
guidance that you can provide on that issue? Or is it more specific to the facts and
circumstances?
Jess
Well, I think you look at it as general documents, permission slips, you know, normally the
parent who has custody of the child should be the individual that are signing off on those day to
day documents that are coming home, you know. Then you have documents where parents and
or students are waiving rights. An example of that is if a child is being expelled, and in lieu of
going to an expulsion, they're entering into an agreement with the district to waive that hearing.
In exchange for something there, they're waiving specific rights that are provided to them under
{01117958} 2
law. And that is important, you want to make sure that you have the appropriate individual
signing those documents, I know Paige is going to talk about in a little bit, there's something
called legal custody. So that is the right to make educational decisions on behalf of the child.
And if a school administrator is presented with a custody order, it could define who has the right
to make these decisions. So it is important to review and look at the documentation that you're
being provided by the parents. So you know exactly who can sign what.
Rich
Okay, so I heard you mentioned custody in there. And I think that would make sense if we
talked about that next. How does custody fit into these rules for parents?
Paige
Every definition of parent is going to take custody into determination. You have a biological
parent, you have in loco parentis parents, which means in place of the parent, it could be an
aunt, it could be an uncle, you have grandparents who may have certain custody rights, or you
can even have great grandparents who have custody rights, like Jess said, this will be defined,
you know, in the custody order, or in some court document, you might have a situation where
somebody has guardianship over a student, maybe their parent, you know, it might be
incarcerated, and the other parent might be in rehab. And there needs to be some sort of
guardianship over the student. The school could be presented with an affidavit or even a court
order document that states somebody else other than the biological parent is the guardian of the
student.
Rich
I know generally that there are two separate definitions of custody in Pennsylvania. Can you just
go into what they are? And how do they come into play within the school setting?
Paige
Sure. So in Pennsylvania, there's two different types of custody, you have legal custody, and
you have physical custody, like Jessica mentioned before. Legal custody is a parent's right to
make major life decisions on behalf of the child. That incorporates medical decisions, religious
decisions and educational decisions. We are seeing a trend that we are seeing in the court
system here is that judges are now slicing and dicing legal custody. And what that means is,
they might give mom the right to make educational decisions, they might give dad the right to
make medical decisions, and they have to, and maybe both mom and dad can come have to
come to an agreement regarding religion. So when a school district is presented with these
custody orders, they might see different variations of what legal custody is they could see
shared legal custody, and that means the parents have got to agree on the educational decision
of the minor child. In the event the parents do not is not on the school district to make that
determination on behalf of the child. Like just said, school districts are not parties to a custody
order. So they are not bound legally by custody order. The parents are. And so you might see
shared legal custody, you might see sole legal custody, which just gives one parent the sole
right to make those educational decisions on behalf of the student. Or you might even see like
we said the slice and dice legal custody, and you have to pay particular attention to whom the
court gives the legal right to make the educational decisions on behalf of the child. And then you
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have physical custody. And that is where the where the child is physically where they're laying
their head at night. What parent is physically responsible for the child or the children at what
point in the day, at what point in the week, you will see shared physical custody that might look
like a week on week off schedule that will be specifically delineated in the physical custody
portion of a custody order.
Rich
I think that's a good segue to pivot back and talk about schools. So how will a school district
know whether custody rights are established by a court? And what are the school's
responsibilities regarding this information?
Jess
Best practices for school districts is the beginning of the year, when they are requiring parents
to complete certain documentation it is to request that if there are any updated custody orders
that maybe the school district does not have in their possession to provide that documentation
to the school district. So they have it. I think very parents are very quick to volunteer their court
orders in the event that they are having issues concerning custody. So Paige talked a little bit
about, you know, what does that look like? How do you get a custody order? So custodial rights
can be defined in various ways. One, you can have a traditional custody order. When the
parents aren't able to come to an agreement concerning the custody of their children, they
proceed to court. After their appearance in court, they will be provided with a custody order
executed by a judge that clearly defines their rights. Their legal rights, as Paige talked about,
and their physical rights. You then have cases where the parents are able to come to an
agreement concerning the custody of their children, and they don't want to go to court, but they
still want a custody order defining their rights. So in those circumstances, we will draft an
agreement, we will draft a stipulation, the parents will execute it and we will submit it to the court
for a judge to approve and then it is an enforceable court order. What goes in the stipulations is
very similar to what you find in an actual court order. That again, will clearly define what rights
the parents have. There's informal written agreements, as Paige touched upon, which I think are
horrible for a school district. Because of informal written agreements, we see notarized
statements a lot. And parents believe that, you know this will carry the day and will bind the
district to comply with what is in this notarized statement. However, we advise our districts that
you know that statement may not carry the day, they are not legally enforceable, we see parents
changing their mind quite frequently concerning decisions about their children. And if there were
a situation and we would need assistance from police, the police are not going to enforce a
notarized statement. So it is very difficult for administrators to try to make decisions or interpret.
Just inform well written agreements when they're provided by the parents. There should be a
document that parents should be able to present to administrators that specifically set out their
rights, if there is any dispute as to who is signing documents, who is making decisions, or who is
physically removing the child from the school.
Rich So what we have here is a very complex and dynamic situation. And we all know that legal
documents can be intimidating and hard to interpret. So what goes into a custody order? And
what should schools focus on specifically,
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Paige
The most important provisions in a custody order that a school should be looking at is who has
legal custody, and who has physical custody? If and when parents are arguing about whether
the student is allowed to go on a field trip, or if a student is presented with a waiver for
expulsion, if they're going to sign that or not they have to come to some sort of an agreement,
and it is then not on the school district to make that decision, if they cannot, and then you have
to then look at the physical custody provision, which is where the child is physically. And you
know, that comes into play a lot. When we are removing the child from the school, if dad comes
to pick the student up and then mom comes to pick the student up, whose physical time is it
actually check the custody order check the physical custody provision of the custody order.
Now, when it it starts to get a little confusing is sometimes there is an interim order put in place
instead of a final order put in place. So what that means is when if and when you see an interim
custody order, that means it is not a final custody order. That means that either there is a
custody trial that might be months away, Jess likes to say the wheels of justice turn slowly. So
how you get a custody order, you go to a master, you go to a custody conference, and they tried
to come to some sort of agreement regarding custody of the child. If they cannot, there is an
interim order that's put in place. Pending the trial. Now the child might be months and months
away from that custody conference. So you will be presented with an interim order. And that
may or may not be turned into a final order. What school districts need to be aware of is if they
are presented with an interim order, and the parents are in disagreement of who's picking up the
child or who can, who can release... what parent the school district can release the child to, pull
the custody order and if it says interim order and they have not been presented with a final
custody order, ask them if a final custody order has been put in place. If not, then the interim
custody order will be enforceable. Now sometimes there are problems because parents are a
little bit slow with getting these documents to school districts. And sometimes you might be
presented with an interim order, or you might even be presented with a final order that has since
been changed. That is not the responsibility of the school district. That is the responsibility of the
parent to make the school district aware. So if you have an interim custody order, or even a final
custody or that may have been changed, and you have not been presented with any other
documentation that says otherwise, the school district's sole responsibility is to go based upon
that. It is then the onus of the parents to provide them with the updated documentation.
Jess
And Rich, if I can just follow up on what Paige said, you know, the another important takeaway
from this is, again, school districts are not bound by a custody order. So you know, they cannot
be found in contempt for not complying with the terms. We see a lot as school practitioners,
family law attorneys writing to school districts telling them they're in violation of the order. That's
not accurate. They're not a party to the action. And sometimes the district needs to make the
call as to what is in the best interest of the child. There are times where very frequently, there
are families who are struggling, navigating a custodial action and circumstance just present
themselves, where children don't want to go with a parent that is showing up. And we don't
know what's going on at home, and what's the dynamic between these parents, and you have a
child who is refusing to get in a car with another parent, you know, districts may have the
custody order, but when they're calling us, we're making the determination as to what we think
{01117958} 5
is in the best interest of the child, you know, and if necessary, and we need to call the police to
get them involved, we will do so. So while we have these custody orders in place, and we
should use them as a guide, the bottom line is always we are all looking out for the best interest
of the child.
Rich
In your experience, what is the best practice when it comes to the care and safety of students
who are under the supervision of a school, but are subjected to custody orders?
Paige
I think Jess just kind of summarized it. The bottom line, the principal school districts need to
follow as what's in the best interest of the child or the student, like Jess said, school districts
don't know what's going on at home. And it's really not their responsibility to know what's going
on at home. So when it comes to releasing a child, and if that is becoming an issue, the school
districts are not bound by the custody order, they they cannot be in violation of this order,
because they are not parties to the order the parents are parties to the order. So if there is some
sort of disagreement as to who and when a student is picked up by that is the responsibility of
the parents to go figure out that conflict in a court and not to have the school districts even get
their hands dirty in that mess. That's why sometimes we do call the police like Jess said maybe
there are multiple times when mom or dad comes to pick up a parent and the student is
absolutely freaking out and refusing to get into that car. More often than not, you know, we will
call the police and have them figure out what to do.
Rich
Let's talk about residency. Let's assume that when there is a custody order in place, a student's
parents are separated. What does that mean in terms of residency and where the student
attends school?
Jess
So Rich, typically, whoever has primary physical custody of the child is where the child is going
to go to school. The school code says it is where the child spends the majority of their school
hours, which parent are they with the majority of the time, we have seen courts who specifically
delineate that enrollment in school districts dictated by the school code. So if a parent has
primary physical custody, that means the child is primarily with them. That is the school district
that they're going to go to, if you have situations where the parents have shared physical
custody, meaning 50% with mom 50% with dad, the parents decide which district the child will
go to if they're living in two separate districts.
Rich
Let's move on then to the issue of transportation. So where there a shared custody is the school
district required to provide transportation to both residences?
Jess
So when there is a shared custodial arrangement between the parties, there have been court
decisions that have come down that says that the school district is required to provide
{01117958} 6
transportation. Now, it is not that bad when we have two parents living in the same district to
provide transportation. However, there has been court cases that have come down and said
what do you have shared physical custody, and parents reside in two different districts, the
districts are required to provide transportation however, the school code says that they do not
need to transport children if they live outside a 10 mile radius from the nearest highway. So
what Paige was alluding to is that we have seen many situations where, you know, courts are
not aware of what the school code says. So we see court orders that will dictate that a school
district provide transportation to a student who lives 26 miles away from the school district. That
is not fair for the school district that requires additional buses, vans, drivers, additional costs,
that is imposed by the court on the school district, again, we go back to they are not a party of
the custody action. So it is navigating and educating the courts requiring the school code
requirements and how they intersect with custody and shared physical custody and
transportation obligations.
Rich 24:33
So those are really critical issues. But moving away from residency and transportation, let's talk
communication. Sometimes a school district will need to communicate with parents about a
student's behavior grades or really any issue. Who do they call when they know that parents are
separated?
Paige 24:52
I think the first rule of thumb is to look at who the point of contacts in, are in in the school
system. school districts want contact information for both parents. Sometimes it's tricky because
if mom is in charge of signing all the documents, school districts may only have one form of
contact information for one parent. School districts want to try their best and make their best
efforts to get that type of information. And when it starts to become tricky is in these situations
where they're separated or divorced parents there, there might be an environment where they,
you know, don't get along very well, or they can't interact with one another. Our best piece of
advice is to always follow up a phone call or a face to face meeting with if it is with one parent,
follow it up with an email that summarizes what happened and always see the other parent on
the email. Now, where it becomes tricky is if one parent has a protection from abuse order
against another parent, that parent is not allowed to have any form of communication with the
other parent. So where it starts to become conflicted is if there needs to be meetings with the
parents are there needs, you know, IEP meetings with the parents are you , you really cannot
put those two individuals on the same email because technically that one parent cannot be in
contact with the other parent at all. Now, if and when that does happen, again, the school
districts are not parties to these orders, it would be in the best interest of the parent who has
that protective order against them to just notify the school districts Hey, I am not allowed to be in
any form of communication with this person. If you need to reach us regarding our child, please
use a separate email for me only. And that you might need to have hold separate meetings for
the parents.
Rich
That exhausts my questions. So I'm going to open the floor Jess, Paige, is there anything else
families or schools should know regarding these issues?
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Jess 2
Rich, I think the most important thing is is that everybody has to keep in mind that a school
district's responsibility lies with the children and educating them. They should not be in the
middle of a custody battle, trying to make determinations as to, you know, where a child is
residing or who is picking up the student on any given day, I think the best thing that you can do
is make the best decisions in the best interests of the children with the information that you have
been provided. And that is the goal here, we continue to look out for our students. And
sometimes we are pulled away from the educational setting and what the goal really is on a day
to day basis. Because we are trying to deal with parents who cannot agree on certain things
with regard to their children. But you make the best decision given the circumstances, and you
stick with it. And you're not going to be drugged into court as a result of that. And of course,
obviously, if the situation is so intense or rises to a level where an administrator or school district
is not comfortable making that decision, then you pick up the phone and you call your solicitor
and you get appropriate guidance on the situation.
Rich
Great advice. You know, that really was informative, and for educators and families out there
going through this difficult balancing act, I know this was a really valuable segment. So thank
you, Jess and Paige for coming on to walk our listeners through this. You were both wonderful.
And I'm so happy you took the time to stop by.
Jess
Thank you Rich.
Paige
Thanks Rich.
Rich
Up next, my co-host Jonathan Huerta talks with Jennifer Holman, superintendent of
Northwestern Lehigh School District.
Jon
Joining us today in the legal lunchroom. We have Jennifer Holman, superintendent of
Northwestern Lehigh School District. Welcome, Jen, it's great to have you with us on the
podcast.
Jennifer
Good morning Jonathan, thank you for having me to talk about a really important subject for our
kids.
Jon
Yeah, definitely. So today, you know, as you mentioned, you know, we've been talking about
some really important and critical issues to schools, we've been talking about the ways that
family issues can affect school operations, custody orders, PFAs, all of that. So again, I think,
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Jen, you're going to be, have some vital information on how this really plays out in a practical
sense in the districts. So Jen, how long have you been in education?
Jennifer
I've been an educator 23 years now.
John
Awesome. And in your current role as superintendent?
Jennifer
This is actually my fifth year as superintendent, all of which I'm at Northwestern Lehigh, the
proud superintendent at Northwestern Lehigh School District.
John
Tell me a little bit about kind of just the background in Northwestern Lehigh. What's some of the
unique features of the district?
Jennifer
Northwestern Lehigh is a small rural district in Northwestern Lehigh County, we have about
2000 students, for townships for school buildings to elementary schools, a middle school and a
high school. And we are very proud of our students and our families. And a very involved
community.
Jon
It's always great to get up there for events with your foundation. And when you really see the
community come together. You know, we're talking about family law today and family law
issues. And inevitably, whether that's custody issues, communications issues, discipline of a
child family law, and disagreements around family law seep into the school district, how do you
prepare as an administrator? How do you prepare your administration and your staff for dealing
with these types of issues?
Jennifer
So I think it starts with training. And so all of our staff, including administrators, as well as
building secretaries, anyone who would be in receipt of something like a custody order, or a
PFA needs to know how to look at those, needs to know how to interpret them, and what kinds
of things appear in custody orders on a regular basis. Each year, we ask our families to submit
any changes in custody orders, and so they submit those to us electronically, at the beginning of
each school year. And then they're logged in our system. So our student management system
has a section for custody, so that we can know any custody details or any PFA details or
logging any of the information in there for the staff that have access to the students.
Jon
So how does that communication go out to the parents? Is it part of the welcome handbook? Or
is it like a personal reach out to the families that you know, have these or I would
{01117958} 9
Jennifer
say both. So right on a regular basis, at the beginning of each year, at their back to school
packet, they get information that asked them to update all of their demographic information,
something as simple as a cell phone update, but also asked for custody updates, so that we
asked for those on a regular basis. Also, custody updates often come when we know there has
been a custody update, or when there's a an interim custody order, and we're expecting a
permanent custody order. And that's where the reach out from one of our staff would come to
be able to log new information and in our system, about physical custody educational rights of
parents, so that we make sure that to the best of our ability, we're supporting the family and the
student and participating in their education
Jon
Right, that's important. You know, it sounds like certainly something that you hear a lot when
dealing in the school environment is communication. Right is key, right, and keeping that those
two lines of communication with the parents. So, you know, to that point, recently, there's been
really a focus in legislation on really defining or maybe redefining and expanding the rights of
parents concerning, you know, the review and approval of school curriculum. So have you seen
some of these custody issues or have you seen kind of parental review come into Northwestern
school?
Jennifer
I would say the two biggest area where we see custody with parents rights are review of things
like PSSA tests, or special education placements. And so sometimes the dispute between
parents and what they want, and will be different when they come in, for example, when they
want to be exempt from participating in PSAs. And participating in the process to be able to
review the test and ask for a religious exemption from participating in the PSAs, or things like
special education placements, where we're looking to evaluate a child or we're looking for a
particular placement for a child. And there happens to be a disagreement between the parents
who are both biological parents, but have varying custody rights of the children or child,
Jon
what we're talking about today, a lot is school has been in the middle of the parental dispute, but
there's another party that's in the middle of the parental dispute, right that the kids right. And you
know, family issues are never easy to deal with. So especially when when you're a child, so how
do schools and how do you help Northwestern Lehigh school district ensure that they're helping
the students during these times without obviously overstepping the lines?
Jennifer
I think all schools would agree with this. And this is certainly a mantra at Northwestern Lehigh
school district that we will always do what's in the best interest of the student, we work really
hard to make sure we understand what the children need or what the child needs. One of our
jobs is obviously to educate a child, but also to create a safe learning environment for them to
come to each day, someplace where they're comfortable, they feel safe, they have trusted
adults there. So if there is something that's going on with them personally or at home, they have
a trusted adult counselor that they can talk to, but all of our decisions, whether it's a student in a
{01117958} 10
custody dispute or not, is always to try to make a determination about what's best for the
student, whether that's educationally, you know, transportation issues, where we're going to
allow parents to come in and pick up the student will always defer to what we believe is in the
best interest of the student, because they are in the middle.
John
Absolutely. I think we heard in the first segment them talking about you know, really those those
problematic scenarios where the custody order may say something but the student at the end of
the day is kind of giving you different signals. Have you experienced this firsthand
Jennifer
For sure. We have a number of custody orders in the district as I'm sure most districts do. And
so sometimes there are children who will give you different information. You know, sometimes
that involves calling your solicitor to deter Harmon, the interpretation of a sort of a custody order
or a PFA, or trying to determine is there an updated custody order that you might not have or
the parent not has not provided to you. Because your your job is to try to do what's in their best
interest. Sometimes you get additional information from the children, we often sometimes get
information from the police that there was an issue the night before they there's a program that
they don't, they won't necessarily tell you what happened. But they'll tell you to take extra care
with that child on the following day. And so sometimes we're alerted in different ways that there
might be something that we need to take extra care,
John
we're talking about formal legal documents, custody orders, we've talked about protections from
abuse or PFS. We also see at times, you know, subpoenas, where a counselor or teacher might
get subpoenaed to testify in a custody trial. So how does the school efficiently keep track of
these important documents, and then any other family changes to the school?
Jennifer
Sure. So for any custody orders, like I said, we have a student information system that tracks
the student, all their demographic information, any of the changes in their custody, or who might
be a guardian, because it's not always a biological parent that has received guardianship. We
have some circumstances where there's a guardian ad litem appointed, or there's a special
advocate appointed for a child. And they also have to be included in paperwork and invite
invitations to meetings, and have certain rights as determined by the custody order things like
subpoenas, we, our staff has certainly been subpoenaed to a variety of different things, we
usually reach out to our solicitor to determine representation or going to a custody hearing, or
what our level of involvement in that custody hearing should be, you know, we we have good
relationships with our families and with our students. And we want to maintain that and part of
that is advocating for the child without being overly involved in the custody or the family dispute
that's going on, because your job is to advocate and make sure that you're doing what the child
is needed for the child to continue to come to school and maintain that relationship with them
and the family as well.
Jon
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Absolutely. So much of this is in the moment, right? It's been my experience. It's like, what do
you do right here and right now, but I'll tell you, whenever we get subpoenas, one of the first
things I try to do for my clients is figure out if there's a way to comply without the school staff
member having to show up at the hearing, right, because I think a times that really starts to blur
that line. And as you said, it's not that you don't want to be involved. But at the end of the day,
the relationship has to carry forward after that. So there's a way that we can comply from from a
document perspective as opposed to actual appearance in court. That's certainly what I tried to
do. And it sounds like that's certainly what you prefer as well, for the districts. Yeah, I
Jennifer
mean, you want to be helpful, and you want to do what you need to do to help the child and be
involved. But some of the some of the custody issues are contentious. And if there's a way to
comply and maintain that relationship, in some cases, you have to remember a school district
principal or school teacher will have relationships for 13 years with that family, and have 13
more years of work with that family, to be able to maintain that relationship. And the although
there are legal documents and they have rights, you try to find a way to be able to comply, but
still continue to build that relationship with the family, and know that the student knows that
you're a trusted adult in the school system that they can trust.
Jon
One last question that just came to mind. You know, we've talked about, you know, the students
in the middle, the district in the middle, and obviously, you've got the parents as well. What
about working with other districts? Do you ever have scenarios where there's competing parents
into different districts and custody orders? Not clear, and you really just kind of have to work it
out with the other district? How does that work out?
Jennifer
Yeah, often on custody orders, as well as homeless, there's often times where we're going to do
a best interest determination, we're going to look at all of the information about the child what
the custody order says where the parents live, if they're in two different districts, and then
sometimes the custody orders are interesting, and they have unique caveats that you have to
interpret. And it's really sitting down on a phone call or a meeting with the other district, the
parents and the student to be able to determine what's in their best interest, where should it be
best for them to go to school, and sometimes the not disrupting the student or removing them
from a circumstance or a school setting that they're familiar with, especially during a time when
everything else might be in turmoil might be in the best interest of the child to be able to stay in
a school system if everyone can agree to do that. And so sometimes, that means collaboration
with another school district for transportation, sometimes it ends up in an interim order, where
you don't necessarily want to change a student's placement until a permanent custody order,
um, comes into play. Because you really want that continuity for the student to be able to have
some familiarity and some comfortability, especially when everything else might not be in a in a
stable status.
Jon
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Absolutely. Well, Jim, thank you so much for being here with me today. You know, you and I
had a conversation before we did this about really the aim of this podcast and I said, one of the
things we try to do is get our information somewhat to just the general public and it's hard to
think of a of an area of law besides or an area of the school setting besides family components
that really the general public needs, you know, is involved in and needs to be aware of. So
again, I thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be here with us today.
Jennifer
Yeah, no problem. It's a really important subject for parents to listen to about interpreting their
own custody orders and school districts to learn from. And so we appreciate anything that the
we're able to provide to families and educators who might listen. And certainly reach out to your
solicitor if there's questions or things that you haven't answered. Right. Thanks so much Jen.
Yeah, no problem. Thank you.
Rich
You know, Jonathan, given how important these issues are, it's critical that educators think
deeply about the topics we discussed today. These issues often arise in the midst of custody
disputes, or other difficult and complex family situations. So it's vital that schools have
established best practices and a trusted system in place to handle these matters.
Jon
Absolutely Rich, today was the perfect example of the fact that the school day and the school
environment doesn't end at the gates. And the school would do well to be informed as to the
things that are happening in a student's family life because it inevitably will seep into the School
District. Thanks for joining us today for the legal lunchroom. If you like our show, please
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can also visit our website at Kings bri.com To
find more educational resources and programming.
Rich
This podcast is a production of King Spry's education law practice group. It is meant to be
strictly informational and does not constitute legal advice. Should you have any questions about
our topics today, please consult with your local legal counsel.
Jon
This episode was produced by Steel Pixel Studios, attorney Paige Gross researched the
episode and our theme music is by Don Lonnie. Until next time,
Rich
I'm Rich Campbell,
Jon
And I'm Jonathan Huerta. We hope you will join us again in the Legal Lunch Room.
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