The Startup CPG Podcast


In this episode of R&D Radio, host Adam Yee sits down with Zachary Cartwright, Principal Food Scientist at AQUALAB by Addium, to break down one of the most important but least understood metrics in food science: water activity. They cover what water activity is, what the numbers mean, how it affects safety, texture, and shelf life, and how brands of any size can start testing for it.


Zach holds a PhD in Food Science from Washington State University, where he also serves as adjunct faculty in the School of Food Science. Over the past seven years at AQUALAB, he has worked with thousands of food scientists across low-moisture food categories, and has applied moisture science to pharmaceuticals, cosmetics, cannabis, and even gunpowder and batteries. AQUALAB provides water activity, moisture analysis, and moisture sorption solutions that help food companies improve product quality, stability, shelf life, and food safety.


Adam and Zach dig into the 0.6 water activity threshold for microbial growth, critical water activities that cause caking, sogginess, and sticky gummies, the difference between moisture content and water activity, and why packaging, temperature, and humidity matter so much. They also share practical ways for smaller brands to access testing, what to look for in a water activity meter, and how large manufacturers use water activity from incoming ingredients through production.


Listen in as they discuss:

  • What water activity really measures: the capacity of water to cause biological, chemical, and physical changes in a product
  • Why a water activity above 0.6 creates an environment where mold, yeast, and bacteria can grow
  • How critical water activities drive caking and clumping in powders, lost crispness in snacks, and sweating in gummies
  • How a water activity test works, from closed-chamber equilibrium to readings in as little as 60 seconds
  • The difference between moisture content and water activity, and how a moisture sorption isotherm helps predict shelf life
  • When water activity matters less, like beverages, and where it still plays a role, from condiments to ice cream inclusions
  • Why packaging should be decided before shelf life testing, and how sustainable packaging can change water vapor transmission rates
  • How brands can access testing through universities, testing labs, or AQUALAB, and why in-house testing is ideal
  • What to look for in a meter: direct versus indirect sensors and temperature control
  • Why clean label and preservative-free trends make water activity more important than ever
  • How large manufacturers test incoming ingredients and every batch, and why smaller brands should “act like a bigger company”


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Creators and Guests

Host
Adam Yee
Podcast Host and Food Scientist

What is The Startup CPG Podcast?

The top CPG podcast in the world, highlighting stories from founders, buyer spotlights, highly practical industry insights - all to give you a better chance at success.

Zachary Cartwright
I often tell people that the most important ingredient is if they're working on a shelf. Stable product is often the water because the water has such an effect on all of these different safety, quality, stability features that they're trying to preserve. And the last thing that a food scientist wants is to make a perfect product. But then the water activity is changing and it could reach the end user or the consumer and not look right or taste right or have the right texture. And so part of water activity is just the capacity to preserve something and keep it in its best form for as long as possible. And that's really a win to the producer, but also to the end user or the person consuming that product.

00:53
Adam Yee
Hey everyone, this is Adam Yee, Food Scientist and podcast host of Startup CPGs R&D Radio where we interview food scientists and product developers and what they do and how they can help you build your CPG business. I'm sure you've heard of this little term called water activity, but what exactly is water activity and is it even important in your product? You've heard how it's important for the safety and quality of certain food, but why? And these are all important questions. There's actually a lot of work and a lot of science behind the sorption metric we use to measure water. And I'm interviewing Zachary Cartwright, right? Probably the best person I know to talk about water activity.

01:31
Adam Yee
Zachary is a principal food scientist at Aqualab by Adium where he works with food manufacturers to better understand and control water in shelf stable products and ingredients. His work focuses on translating moisture science into practical tools that help teams improve product stability, streamline development and maintain quality during scale up and production. Zach holds a PhD in Food Science from Washington State University where he also serves as an adjunct faculty member in the School of Food Science. He has extensive experience working across low moisture food categories and has also applied his insights to pharmaceuticals, cosmetics and a wide range of novel applications. Known for his ability to make complex concepts accessible, Zach regularly speaks with cross functional R&D teams spanning R&D quality, packaging and operations.

02:20
Adam Yee
I see Zach often through the conferences I go to in food science where he stands on stage and talks proudly about this specific topic. So he works for a company called Aqualab which provides water activity, moisture analysis and moisture sourcing solutions that help food companies improve product quality, stability, shelf life and food safety. They work with brands from R&D through production and quality assurance to solve moisture related challenges and accelerate product development. Whenever you get a water activity value from a machine or a lab, it's most likely from them. So we talk a ton about this topic. Water activity for how it affects the taste and texture of a food. What the numbers actually mean. You're going to get a value between. 0, 1. What does that actually mean? How you, as a brand get a water activity test.

03:07
Adam Yee
That's something we talk about as well. And the applications used industries outside of food or in places where you don't expect it to affect food. You'll see this scientific metric often as you build your food business. So it's good to understand this fascinating way we apply it to food. If you love science, you'll love this. Enjoy this episode with Zach. I'm sure you'll learn a lot. Zachary Cartwright, welcome to R&D Radio. I'm glad to have you, who I deem as kind of the water activity expert. I feel like in the food science community, we always ask you to explain it to whatever conference in whatever country.

03:44
Adam Yee
You know, I've seen you in the United States, I've seen you in Japan, and, you know, I'm glad to have you on R&D Radio to explain water activity to all these awesome brands that we work with.

03:54
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me back on another podcast. Really enjoyed our connection and I'm happy to be here.

04:00
Adam Yee
Love it. And so I think what we learn as formulators talking to brands and founders is that sometimes they bring up the word water activity. And I think we as formulators have to explain what water activity is. Sometimes those formulators might get it wrong, too. So though we see it often and we see it as like a metric that's like, you know, between 0 and 1, I don't think a lot of people know what it is. So I'd love for you, for someone who works at Aqualab, and I'd love for you to explain what that company does. What is water activity?

04:31
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, so I see water activity explained a lot of different ways. Sometimes it's a little too technical or it's not quite right. But I think the simplest way to think of it is just what is the capacity of that water to cause changes in my food products? So is it going to cause biological growth? Is it going to cause certain chemical reactions to speed up, or is it going to cause physical changes? Am I going to lose the ideal texture of my product that my team works so hard to create? So it's the ability of the water to force these types of changes that really lead to the quality, the safety and the stability of the things that we work on in the food industry.

05:10
Adam Yee
So like one example is water is. Makes bacteria grow. Right. So it makes like mold grow. It makes any type of microbe grow. Right. Under certain types of water activity conditions, right?

05:21
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. So if the water activity is above a specific point, 0.6 water activity, then we know that there is an environment in that food that can allow for microbial growth. So it doesn't necessarily mean that microorganisms are there, but if they are there and the water activity is above specific limits that are very well defined, then we know that mold and yeast and bacteria may be a problem. And so this is really helpful to food producers. If water activity is one of their primary hurdles to prevent microbial growth, then they can use water activity and below that 0.6 value and know with certainty that nothing is going to grow.

06:04
Adam Yee
Awesome. And another thing you mentioned was quality or texture. Right. So I would say from crunchy to soggy, that could be an aspect of why water activity is important, right?

06:15
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. So there are limits that we call critical water activities. And using a specific type of testing, we can actually determine exactly what water activity will lead to textural changes. Because there are certain points where foods and ingredients will either pick up a lot of moisture or release a lot of moisture. And at those points, we might have caking and clumping of a powder. We might lose the crispness of a chip or snack product that we've been working on. We might be working on a gummy or a confection that starts to sweat and stick together in the package. All of these things are driven by water activity changes in and textural changes that we can correlate water activity to.

06:59
Adam Yee
Yeah. And it's actually a really easy test to do as a food scientist. Right. I don't think any of the founders or brands that we work with have actually seen how we measure water activity. Right. Yeah.

07:09
Zachary Cartwright
I'm happy to explain that. It's a super easy test. It really depends on the device that you're using and the sensor in that device, what's happening in the background. But for any water activity test, you need to take the product or the sample, it goes inside closed chamber, and then we're waiting for it to reach equilibrium. We're waiting for the water molecules to move out of that product and into the headspace of that container. And then using a variety of sensors, we can determine when equilibrium has been reached and get a water activity reading. And for the devices that we have here, Aqualab, you know, we have a as fast of as a 60 second reading or a three to five minute full length reading. So it's pretty quick, but it really does depend on the technology.

07:55
Zachary Cartwright
There are other devices that take 30 minutes or an hour and food producers that have lots of samples to go through can't wait that long. And so that's one of the advantages of an Aqualab device is just the speed to which you can get that reading.

08:09
Adam Yee
Yeah. Do you usually see water activity used as kind of like a product development situation or more of a quality control in the factory situation, or both?

08:17
Zachary Cartwright
I think that, you know, maybe a few decades ago water activity was primarily a quality metric, especially looking at things like microbial growth. But more recently I see water activity transcending all departments or all steps that it takes to bring a food or ingredient to the market. So whether it's in R and D or production, or even thinking about packaging decisions and monitoring shelf life, water activity is dynamic. And so we need to monitor it. All of these different stages, including R and D, like you mentioned.

08:51
Adam Yee
Yeah. And I think when we talk about waters and food science, it has a relationship with moisture, though it's not quite the same, right?

08:58
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, it's not quite the same. And I often see these two metrics confused or maybe mixed up where some teams are trying to use moisture in order to solve a water activity issue. But the way that you can think about this is that moisture content is quantitative. It just simply tells us the amount of water in something, but it doesn't tell us what that water is going to do. And that's why we need the water activity. And we can combine both metrics into a single graph or a single curve and that's called a moisture sorption isotherm.

09:33
Adam Yee
And this is kind of very science word.

09:35
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, it's much more technical, but it's definitely used within R and D to take this curve and to predict shelf life and to think about what's going to happen when I mix this product with other ingredients. How is moisture going to move or where exactly is that textural point? So even though it's a more technical approach, it can be very insightful to R and D teams and to product developers.

10:02
Adam Yee
Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially a moisture source of an isotherm is kind of the relationship between moisture and water activity per product format, right?

10:09
Zachary Cartwright
Exactly. And every product, every formulation, every ingredient is going to have its own unique way that it picks up or releases moisture. And so if we study this and we understand especially how the final product changes in water activity and moisture over time, this gives Production teams a lot of insights onto what that long term stability looks like. And it can help them identify which products or formulations are most likely to be successful, or what storage conditions they really need to avoid, or what packaging they need in order to hit their shelf life goal. So there's a lot that can be done if you understand what this curve is and how it can be utilized.

10:53
Adam Yee
Yeah. And let's dive a little bit more into formats because at least what I've encountered is sometimes there are people who ask for water activity even though the products might not necessarily need it. Right. I think something that keeps in mind is like you don't need water activity measurements for beverage because it is mostly water and the way the attributes in beverage and the safety in beverage are controlled by different means. Right, Yeah.

11:14
Zachary Cartwright
I think water activity is mainly used for things that are shelf stable that are not liquid. I mean, sometimes for condiments and things like that, where water activity is still very important to stability of the emulsion or to preventing microbial growth, then you still need water activity for some of these products. But you're right, sometimes beverages or other products, maybe water activity isn't as applicable. It could still be measured and used as a metric for consistency or especially used for any incoming dry ingredients that are being blended in or put into solution. But you're right, water activity is, depending on the product, may be more or less useful, depending on what we're working on.

11:55
Adam Yee
Is this useful for frozen products then? Because, you know, you don't really need to deal with any of the changes. Right. If the product is locked in a frozen state.

12:03
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. It's not used directly on frozen products, but things like ice cream, for example, that has lots of inclusions. Aqualab works with tons of ice cream companies to monitor those inclusions and to make sure that they're within the right specs. So it still plays a role there. Or you know, sometimes we work with companies that produce a product and then they freeze it and then it's thawed and brought back to the same temperature at some point, you know, maybe once it reaches the customer. And so we often ask the question, you know, how does the water activity change? Once we thought out, is it going to be at the same water activity as it was prior to freezing? So there are still some applications there.

12:42
Adam Yee
Yeah. Because in a freeze thaw cycle, structures can break, right?

12:45
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, exactly, yeah.

12:47
Adam Yee
Functional ingredients can change or be destroyed through that cycle. Right. And so that could affect water activity. So water activity is a range from zero to one.

12:55
Zachary Cartwright
Right.

12:56
Adam Yee
And It's I describe it as a ratio of. And that's what it's always displayed as.

13:01
Zachary Cartwright
Yes.

13:01
Adam Yee
I think when people like getting water give a result, they have no idea what to do with it. Unless you are like pretty technical to food science. Right, Right.

13:10
Zachary Cartwright
So let me go back to the ratio really quick because you're right. Water activity ranges from zero to one. And one way to think of this is if the water activity is zero, then no water is available for those chemical, physical, biological changes. And if it's one, then it has the same availability as pure water. So that's kind of our spectrum or our range. And if we take a reading, you're right, you might take the water activity reading and not initially know you know, what does this mean. But there is a lot of literature and publications and things that helps you to understand that. If you're at a specific water activity, then you might have a potential for mold to grow or for browning reactions or lipid oxidation to take off. Or maybe you're in a zone where textual changes are known to happen.

13:58
Zachary Cartwright
So taking the reading is just one part, but interpreting it and putting it into action is the second part. And that's part of what Aqualab is known for, is because we're not only providing the instrument that takes the reading, but we're sitting down with teams and helping them understand, okay, what's the next step now that we know what the water activity actually is?

14:17
Adam Yee
Let's kind of run through that. You don't have to share anything proprietary, but I'd love to hear like how you guys work with companies with essentially, what do they give you for you to help them get the best results going forward. And I know that's very broad. I guess, for example, is like they have a number and they have a product. Is that all they need or do they need more information to give you guys to solve their problem?

14:38
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, often if we're meeting with a team that is newer to using water activity, maybe they've measured moisture content in the past, we generally have them first send in a sample of their product. We then make a moisture sorption isotherm. So we make that moisture map so we understand how the water and the moisture change over time and in different conditions for that product. Using that information, we can help the team to set a water activity and a moisture spec or target that they need to hit in production. In production itself.

15:11
Zachary Cartwright
We have software and ways to optimize their drying technologies so they consistently hit the moisture or water activity target and then downstream we can also help to make sure that they're running their quality tests correctly and that they're going to hit their shelf life goal by all of the insights that we've provided. So throughout the entire life cycle, from the very beginning, from product development through hitting that shelf life goal, we have different insights and capabilities that we can provide. So it really depends on who we're meeting with and what their initial challenges. But ideally we can walk them through that entire process so that they have complete moisture control from start to finish.

15:55
Adam Yee
Yeah, water just seems like a simple number, but there's actually a lot of complex problems that happen when it changes. You mentioned a lot that I didn't really think about prior to the call is like stickiness is like in a food science point of view, it makes sense why stickiness is affected by free water. We're always taught as food science students, like micro and maybe a little bit of texture is it. But there's actually a ton more that really does depend on water. Right.

16:20
Zachary Cartwright
I often tell people that the most important ingredient is if they're working on a shelf stable product is often the water because the water has such an effect on all of these different safety, quality, stability features that they're trying to preserve. And the last thing that a food scientist wants is to make a perfect product. But then the water activity is changing and it could reach the end user or the consumer and not look right or taste right or have the right texture. And so part of water activity is just the capacity to preserve something and keep it in its best form for as long as possible. And that's really a win to the producer, but also to the end user or the person consuming that product for sure.

17:03
Adam Yee
I love to hear like factors that affect water activity. And I'm thinking more of like external factors. Right. Like you said, like to prevent maybe moisture migration, you need different packaging. I'd love to hear other things you've kind of realized through learning a lot about water. By the way, you have like a, you have a PhD in food science. You know, you are knee deep in this field through your industry experience. So you know, you are the guy like who's very involved in this specific topic, which I love.

17:28
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, I just kind of landed into a field of moisture science on accident after I was done with my PhD in Food Science from Washington State University. Aqualab was right here and in the backyard of Pullman, Washington. And I felt really fortunate to find this team and was excited by what they're working on. But you're Right. You know, over the past seven years, I've probably met with thousands of different food scientists at this point, if not more. And one of the really important things to keep in mind about water activity and coming back to your question, is that water activity is really a dynamic. It's always changing. And the food product that you may be working on or the ingredients, they are basically alive.

18:11
Zachary Cartwright
I was in a meeting yesterday and somebody said, you know, our gummy is a living organism because it's always changing and adapting. And so you have to realize that your product is always going to change a little depending primarily on the temperature it's stored in and also the relative humidity that it's in. And that's why the packaging is so important, because the packaging is basically preserving that product and as well as it can preventing the temperature and the humidity from causing that water activity to go out of spec, where different changes can then start to occur.

18:49
Adam Yee
Sometimes I have to deal with some projects that they didn't decide the packaging before putting into shelf life or accelerated shelf life, which is accelerated shelf life is all about heat and an increase in relative humidity to affect the product. And so when they don't give you the right packaging or haven't decided the packaging and still go forward with the shelf life, it ends up the data becomes useless, essentially.

19:07
Zachary Cartwright
Right, Exactly. And I see that all the time where I meet with teams where the packaging was already decided on because it looks really nice. Or sometimes making or hitting a specific shelf life target is a combination of the product being produced correctly to the right water activity, but then picking a packaging with the correct water vapor transmission rate, which is the rate that moisture can move from the environment through the packaging and interact with the product inside. And especially as teams start to switch to more sustainable packaging or things that are recyclable, reusable, and so on. These packaging materials often have very different water vapor transmission rates. And so, you know, maybe hitting a specific goal before isn't quite as possible to hit now unless changes are made in the production specific or unless different types of controls are put in.

20:04
Zachary Cartwright
And so this is often one of the conversations I find myself having a lot is understanding the relationship between water activity and packaging, especially for teams that are switching to new types of packaging.

20:17
Adam Yee
You brought up a really interesting insight I haven't thought about. We talk about a lot, but you know, sustainability. Packaging is big, but it's really hard to accomplish because of so many different factors. Right. I think one, the cost is much more expensive. Supply is really hard. But you mentioned Specifically that the moisture migration between packaging is different, right?

20:36
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, exactly. And so often some sustainable packaging or biodegradable and so on, sometimes they have a higher water vapor transmission rate and so hitting that shelf life goal becomes a little bit more challenging. But with the data insights, using water activity and moisture absorption isotherms that we mentioned earlier, you can make data driven decisions and understand if the new packaging is suitable or sometimes multiple layers of packaging have to be used. But this is something that we can easily predict and understand. So I, I work with teams all the time that ship a subset of their product to an area with a higher temperature, higher humidity, and sometimes those products need an extra coating, whether that's on the packaging or on the product itself. And edible coating. And so these are decisions that we help.

21:28
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, so these are things that we look into all the time to help make those decisions.

21:34
Adam Yee
Love that. Love that. I'd love to hear how brands can use a watching machine. You know, I think there's multiple ways you can go in this conversation, but I think in general they are hard to access machines in a sense. And I'd love to hear just ways you can think of like brands going to either get a test or are there cheap options to get lower scale machines? Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think you need to like have one in your like R and D lab. But I'd love to hear kind of the steps or like when would brands or founders need to use a larger machine and what are the best ways to access them?

22:07
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, so there's a few different options. I mean, you know, smaller or mid sized companies that don't have a meter in house can find a testing lab nearby or sometimes a university. I've noticed that a lot of university programs with food science programs offer this type of testing. And so if you're close to one, you may be able to send them samples. Of course you can send samples to us here at Aqualab in Washington State. We do testing all the time and the cost of that testing is fairly wide ranging. I think anywhere from $50 per reading to 150 is generally what I see.

22:44
Zachary Cartwright
But for teams where water activity is really important, where it's directly related to the yield or to the safety, the quality, ideally you have that metric in house because if you're shipping a sample, it could start to already change a little in water activity and then you're waiting a few days or you know, a week or so to get the reading. Whereas if you have a meter in house, like we talked about earlier, as fast as 60 seconds.

23:11
Adam Yee
Yeah.

23:11
Zachary Cartwright
You can know what your water activity is. So ideally for any team where water activity is important, they consider bringing this in because it can really help them save lost batches or avoid recalls and things like that.

23:25
Adam Yee
Oh, that's very true.

23:26
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. And so in house is usually the best option if possible. But I just encourage, if you think water activity is important and you can't get a device right now, at least send some samples for testing to get an idea of what your starting point is. And send in samples from multiple batches and multiple locations that you're accounting for variation.

23:49
Adam Yee
100%. I 100% agree with that. I've worked a lot of these machines, I will say with universities. I feel like we in the university get them essentially donated like throughout the years. Right. So everyone has access to them in some way, shape or form. Obviously the research that we do in universities, water activity is a big component of like it's a really catch all metric that helps us understand a lot about a product and its environment, right?

24:15
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, exactly. And you're right. In the past, even us at Aqualab, we've donated devices and things because it is really important for students and graduate researchers to understand these instruments and to know the insights that water activity can provide in school so that when they're in the industry that they understand how to take this to the next step and apply it to large scale production. So one thing I did want to clarify for anybody you know thinking about a device is that when you're looking at a water activity meter, you're essentially paying for the type of sensor inside. There are primary direct methods to measure water activity and there are kind of secondary indirect methods with the sensors that don't last as long. And so just make sure to educate yourself and know what's out there and really what you're paying for.

25:03
Zachary Cartwright
And then the other thing to keep in mind is that water activity is temperature dependent. And so you really want a device that has temperature control so that you have a consistent baseline and you're always measuring at the same temperature. Because there are handheld devices out there and cheaper devices, but they have no temperature control. So depending on the environment that you're testing in, you're already adding some noise and some variation that can lead to some problems. So that's part of the reason why a benchtop unit with temperature control becomes so important.

25:38
Adam Yee
That's really interesting. You're mentioning also just how we use it a lot in the food science industry, because I think as food Science students, like, probably class one, we talk about ph and water activity as the main things. And then when you go out industry and talk to, like, companies, it's like, what's water activity? I have no idea. So, like, it's always very interesting just how important. Important it is in our field to learn about this. You know, it's a very technical term in other fields, right?

26:04
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, exactly. And I see that all the time. You know, I meet with scientists all over who definitely, like, know about water activity or they've heard of moisture sorption isotherms, but it's often just reviewed or gone over, like, five minutes in a food chemistry course or something, and then you move on to the next thing. But there's just so much depth to it. And practically speaking, like, in the real world, water activity has such a great effect. Even if you think about, like, human evolution since our beginning, water activity is one of the very first ways that humans started to preserve foods because it makes sense. Water activities, and you're dehydrating things or even cooking things. This allowed for the shelf life of products very early on to be extended. And sometimes people just need that reminder and that insight.

26:50
Zachary Cartwright
But when it's used correctly, this is when I see teams be the most successful and have products that they're proud of and that hit their shelf life goals.

26:59
Adam Yee
Yeah. I love how you brought it back to, like, preservation. Right. Because if were to, like, kind of really ground it down, our activity has been controlled through heat. Right. Cooking, salt and sugar, which we use to, like, preserve, you know, And I think that makes me think a lot about, like, okay, yeah, we've controlled active water, for lack of a better term, for such a long time. And now we finally have the tools to really measure it.

27:23
Zachary Cartwright
Exactly. And one of the other trends I see, you know, even recently, is there's always a push for more organic products or products free from preservatives and so on. And as we do that, water activity only becomes more important because it's probably the most natural way for us to preserve things. And sometimes we have to add humectants, which are ingredients that can bind up water, like sugar or salt or other things which are also natural ingredients. And so I just see a big uptake in the food industry, but also other industries as well, like pharmaceuticals and cosmetics and other places where water activity comes into play.

28:00
Adam Yee
Oh, yeah, I haven't thought about that too. Yeah, makeup. Right. I can see that.

28:04
Zachary Cartwright
As a food scientist, I've worked with more cosmetic science, pharmaceuticals, you Know, even cannabis. Things I never really expected to work on with my food science degree. But water activity, you know, is important anywhere where we need to think about the water and preserving in anything. Even newer industries. Like I'm currently looking into gunpowder and batteries and other things, so. Yeah, so you never know where it could be helpful.

28:30
Adam Yee
That's crazy. Actually. You know, a lot of these brands want to aspire to be bigger brands eventually, you know, deal with giant manufacturing processes. I'd love to see or like, maybe inspire or just give people to see the future of how water activity is in motion. Right. Like running a line. How do people generally use water activity in like big scale food production?

28:51
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. So I, I often tell smaller teams that if they want to become a bigger company, then they need to act like it and they need to have the tools that bigger companies have. And by far, water activity is one of the most important tools to have because large scale companies, they're using water activity daily. They're making batches and testing constantly throughout that entire batch, not just taking a single reading, but taking multiple readings and really accounting for the variation. Because data is knowledge and its power within the food industry.

29:24
Zachary Cartwright
And the more water activity data you have, then the better you can hit your spec and make something very consistent and especially comes into play not just in production, but also with any incoming ingredients, because those are products themselves and they can have variation and be different due to different times of years or different suppliers. And so big companies are also using water activity on those incoming ingredients so that they can account for the variation very early on. Because if they don't, any variation within those incoming ingredients is only going to be carried through production and then to the final product may be leading to issues downstream.

30:08
Adam Yee
Yeah. I think very basically flour is a great example. Right? Flour.

30:12
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah, perfect. Yeah.

30:14
Adam Yee
So many different types of flour. The way people package flour can be different. The way the flour is left out can absorb moisture. If it's in a humid Texas environment versus, like, you know, Montana. I don't know. It's really is like something to think about when it comes to like specifically powders, which so many brands deal with. Right. You know, it's just things that we really don't think about how important this metric is. Yeah.

30:38
Zachary Cartwright
I think one of my favorite parts of my job is just going and giving seminars and talks on water activity because it's just such a basic thing. It's just the water in the food. But I really enjoy helping people understand just the greater impacts of it, especially smaller companies, because I want them to be successful. And I think learning this early on gives teams a really huge advantage on how to act like a bigger company and eventually become that bigger company.

31:05
Adam Yee
For sure. We're going to wrap this interview and thanks for the education piece on Wire Activity. I think a lot of brands will find a lot of value. It's like, wow, I didn't know that about this very simple metric. If they have more questions about this, how do they contact you?

31:19
Zachary Cartwright
Yeah. So if anything I said today resonated with your listeners, please reach out to me. I'm on LinkedIn. Zachary Cartwright, Food scientist at Aqualab. You can also shoot me an email. Zachary cartwrightqualab. Com. I'm more than happy to speak with you. I'm happy to send you my link to my calendar and we can talk about how Water Activity fits into your food product or ingredient that you're working on.

31:44
Adam Yee
Yeah, Zach is a wealth of knowledge. I would say this. I'm going to vouch for you. You're the most trusted source of out Water Activity I know.

31:51
Zachary Cartwright
Well, I appreciate that. I think I didn't always feel that way, but I will definitely say just at my time at Aqualab, I've seen a lot of things and I am really happy to help people with our technologies and put it into practice. So reach out if I can be helpful.

32:05
Adam Yee
Love it. Thank you for listening to Startup CPG's R&D Radio. I hope you guys enjoyed this conversation. We've now arrived together at the end of another episode of the Startup CPG podcast. I'm proud to be part of the team that's part of the top globally ranked podcast in cpg. As you may know, we're not just a podcast, we're a community of brands and experts and you should join. You can sign up @startupcbg.com and you'll then get invited to our online Slack community and be informed on great guests and amazing networking opportunities to get you in front of buyers, investors, brands and more. Thank you for listening and have a great day.