Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Estate litigation expert Matt Stein breaks down the emotional and financial cost of family members fighting over a trust. Discover why naming a child as trustee often leads to lawsuits and how you can prevent the "pot" from being diluted by legal fees.
-----
Find Matthew Stein at:
Website: https://www.lsalawyers.com/
📈 https://https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgstein
🔔 Subscribe for more business insights and success stories!
Need help with a home loan?
https://truepointlending.com
Need creative financing or non-traditional lending options?
https://mortgagenicheadvisor.com
Chris Chudacoff Social:
YouTube: @cchudacoff
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/chris-chudacoff-80a7865
Instagram: https://instagram.com/cchudacoff
-----
Find Matthew Stein at:
Website: https://www.lsalawyers.com/
📈 https://https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewgstein
🔔 Subscribe for more business insights and success stories!
Need help with a home loan?
https://truepointlending.com
Need creative financing or non-traditional lending options?
https://mortgagenicheadvisor.com
Chris Chudacoff Social:
YouTube: @cchudacoff
LinkedIn: https://linkedin.com/in/chris-chudacoff-80a7865
Instagram: https://instagram.com/cchudacoff
Creators and Guests
Host
Guest
Matthew Stein
Matthew G. Stein is a Probate Litigation Attorney and Partner at Law Stein Anderson, LLP. Matthew represents those entangled in probate litigation, including trust contests, will contests, breaches of fiduciary obligations, allegations of trustee wrongdoing and claims of elder abuse. His work includes consulting with individuals to provide advice on strategic planning and positioning before litigation becomes necessary. Mr. Stein is also recognized for his years of experience in defending against personal injury, premises and product liability matters. He has aggressively defended against catastrophic injuries brought against manufacturers, land owners, and business owners in trial. It has been shown that his effective trial experience protects businesses and their financial interests. Mr. Stein has successfully litigated and/or tried numerous multi-million dollar lawsuits. Mr. Stein has also been named California “Super Lawyer”, and has been consistently ranked in Super Lawyer’s list of top attorneys in Southern California. His clients include large corporations, world-wide nonprofit organizations, corporate executives, prominent individuals and family-owned businesses. However, every client and every project, whether big or small, receives the same level of commitment, diligence and ingenuity which distinguishes Mr. Stein’s practice. As an experienced trial lawyer and skillful negotiator, Mr. Stein is a tenacious adversary who consistently obtains significant results for his clients regardless of the challenges presented. Licensed in all State and Federal courts throughout California, he is well versed in handling arbitration, mediation, and other alternative dispute resolutions. Mr. Stein continues to obtain several significant trial wins for his clients and believes that the best results are achieved when every case is meticulously prepared for trial. In addition to running a successful law firm, Matthew sits on the UCI Dean’s Leadership Executive Committee, is a ProVisors Group Leader, and sits on the Executive Board of Alzheimer’s Orange County.
What is Let Me Tell You a Quick Story?
“Let Me Tell You a Quick Story” is a podcast where the host, Chris Chudacoff, shines the light on his friends, diving deep into their personal and professional lives. Each episode is a candid, funny and entertaining conversation that explores their journeys, challenges, and success-without distractions, side shows or commercials! Whether it’s career milestones, personal growth, authentic embarrassment or unexpected adventures, this podcast is all about celebrating the people in Chris’ live. With genuine curiosity and relaxed atmosphere, “Let Me Tell You a Quick Story” brings out the best stories from every day people, making each episode a unique and relatable experience.
11;21;11;21 - 11;21;34;22
Chris
Are you one of many people that wake up each day you've had a family member pass away? There's a trust involved. There's confusion involved. You don't even know what a trust is. There's so many questions around it. There's so much confusion around it. And unfortunately, it's hard to find a trusted source, someone who's going to actually help you and care about you, and your family today.
11;21;34;22 - 11;21;52;12
Chris
I'm, really stoked to have, really more of a very good friend of mine, but also one of the smartest guys you'll ever meet when it comes to living trust litigation trustees, making sure people do the right thing. He's my good friend, Matt Stein. I can't wait for you to hear about. We're going to talk about money now.
11;21;52;12 - 11;21;58;28
Chris
So let me tell you a quick story.
11;21;59;00 - 11;22;19;26
Chris
Matt, it took about a year and a half for me to get you inside because you're so busy saving people with their living trust and litigation and people doing wrong things. And I know you might have a couple kids at home and some soccer practices, but, all the things that are great sometimes take a little time. So I'm stoked that we finally got to get in the room.
11;22;19;26 - 11;22;20;12
Chris
So welcome.
11;22;20;13 - 11;22;22;01
Matt
Thank you so much for having me, Chris. I really.
11;22;22;01 - 11;22;25;15
Chris
Appreciate it. Yeah. We're going to get you on the hot seat a little bit.
11;22;25;17 - 11;22;26;02
Matt
Let's do it.
11;22;26;02 - 11;22;29;00
Chris
Maybe take off your clothes, have a shirt.
11;22;29;02 - 11;22;30;07
Matt
Okay. See you about that.
11;22;30;07 - 11;22;48;27
Chris
Yeah. Anyway, thanks for coming in as we're starting out January 2026. I know there's there's so much I want to talk to you about, because the landscape of generational wealth and the transfer and and making sure people are doing it right is really what I want to talk about. But you also know me. Let's take a step back.
11;22;48;27 - 11;22;54;23
Chris
Let's talk about some of the fun stuff for a few minutes. One of the things I love about this podcast, since it's mine, it's yours.
11;22;54;23 - 11;22;55;22
Matt
You get, you get to run it.
11;22;55;26 - 11;23;15;02
Chris
See anything I want and I say this all the time. As you you've seen these. I interview my friends, which I love way more than that. But I always learn something new about someone from those questions. And sometimes I'm like, shit, how did I not know this about about Matt? But something I learned about you. Oh, I knew you loved scuba diving, but I didn't know scuba diving is like.
11;23;15;02 - 11;23;16;19
Matt
Like that's my jam.
11;23;16;19 - 11;23;17;01
Chris
That's your.
11;23;17;01 - 11;23;18;23
Matt
Thing? That's my thing, right?
11;23;18;25 - 11;23;25;07
Chris
When did you start? Where is your top two favorite spots that you've been do and like? Where is the dream? Scuba diving. I love.
11;23;25;07 - 11;23;28;06
Matt
That we're starting this off by talking about something important to.
11;23;28;06 - 11;23;30;06
Chris
Me. Way more important than words. It's great. Yeah.
11;23;30;09 - 11;23;36;19
Matt
I, I started scuba diving. My wife and I got certified together, roughly 20 years ago.
11;23;36;23 - 11;23;38;22
Chris
Yeah. And before kids, obviously.
11;23;38;22 - 11;24;00;13
Matt
Yeah. And as soon as I got underwater, I realized that nobody can get a hold of me. No phones. Right. I can be underwater for almost an hour and just pure bliss. Totally quiet. It's honestly like meditation when you're under the water and you see just the fish and the coral and it's calm and the visibility's beautiful, the water's warm, and you're just like, I don't want to go.
11;24;00;13 - 11;24;01;21
Matt
I don't want to go up like you.
11;24;01;26 - 11;24;05;12
Chris
You almost forced just to, like, half lay down and just.
11;24;05;14 - 11;24;06;06
Matt
Yeah, breathe.
11;24;06;06 - 11;24;07;06
Chris
And just embrace.
11;24;07;06 - 11;24;24;01
Matt
It. Yeah. And as you know, with three kids in the job and the boards that I'm on, there's so much going on which I am super proud of. And I'm lucky there's times where I just need to decompress and there's times where I just need to be lost. And when you're under the water, you really feel like you're on another planet.
11;24;24;07 - 11;24;33;08
Matt
It does not feel like anything else. And so as I've gotten older, cold water is a little bit more difficult. My Catalina trips are fewer.
11;24;33;10 - 11;24;34;21
Chris
I'm having, by the way. Yeah.
11;24;34;21 - 11;24;46;29
Matt
Now, so really, the warm water stuff is what I love to do. And just to see what's under there. Wreck diving. Yeah. Deep diving. Do whatever I can do to see large animals.
11;24;46;29 - 11;24;48;17
Chris
Yeah, I love yeah, I love that.
11;24;48;17 - 11;24;54;03
Matt
I love seeing the big stuff down there, but also the tiny, minuscule coral. It's just it's a beautiful world.
11;24;54;03 - 11;24;55;20
Chris
Don't any of the kids take it up? Yeah.
11;24;55;23 - 11;24;59;23
Matt
So my 16 year old been diving with me? Yeah. We're in the process getting him certified.
11;24;59;24 - 11;25;05;24
Chris
Coolest thing in the world, right? Like, at that age right there. Your son's not stupid. They're stupid. Right? They're 16.
11;25;05;26 - 11;25;06;19
Matt
He's 16.
11;25;06;23 - 11;25;20;06
Chris
And it's like, any way to connect? When my youngest son got to be that age, he loved fishing at Dana Point. Any time I could go throw a pole in the water regardless. Right. Just that time. So the fact that he's taken some interest in that you can do.
11;25;20;06 - 11;25;38;05
Matt
That makes me happy. Mister, from the wrong side. Yeah. And then my my 17 year old is also interested. He's got to wait a couple of years till he can get Patty certified. But I'm excited to be able to be under the water with eventually all three of my kids and to show them that world because they see my videos and they see my, you know, my, my logs.
11;25;38;05 - 11;25;39;18
Chris
And take your GoPro on and you and.
11;25;39;18 - 11;25;41;29
Matt
Do all that I do. So they're just like, I want to go.
11;25;42;00 - 11;25;59;17
Chris
Oh my gosh, that is so cool. I know you know this about me. I'm an empty nester. I love that you're going to do that now with the kids, the trips you and your wife are going to take when the kids are gone are going to be even better, right? Because, I had a friend of mine say recently, it's like, do you're traveling, you're going on all these trips.
11;25;59;17 - 11;26;02;03
Chris
I'm like, well, the goal was to get to this. Hey.
11;26;02;03 - 11;26;03;02
Matt
Yeah, we can.
11;26;03;05 - 11;26;22;01
Chris
When I was in my 20s and early 30s. Yeah. Three kids. I couldn't afford to go to Anchorage, Alaska for 21 days. And some of the trips Chris and I take now, I can afford them a little bit better. The trips you and Carl will be able to take when the kids are gone, to go scuba diving into whether it's Fiji or wherever you go.
11;26;22;04 - 11;26;25;22
Chris
Oh my gosh, that's going to be even bigger and better, you know.
11;26;25;22 - 11;26;26;17
Matt
So we're looking.
11;26;26;17 - 11;26;35;04
Chris
Forward to it. Yeah. Give you how do you mix in the time with that. Are you still rolling in the mountain jujitsu. Are you still in your men's soccer league? Yeah. All of it. Yeah.
11;26;35;05 - 11;26;55;09
Matt
All of it. Just priorities, right? Yeah. All three of my kids are in different clubs, sports. So for me, it's just about priorities and figuring out, like, how to manage their schedules. First and foremost, how to manage my schedule, figuring out time for myself, whether there's a gym, whether it's a soccer, whatever I'm doing, is really important for my mental health.
11;26;55;09 - 11;27;02;08
Matt
And so I for sure I've got to find an hour a day at least. Yeah, do something for myself. Otherwise there's there's too many things going on.
11;27;02;09 - 11;27;05;29
Chris
Yeah. You know, I'm going to say something nice about you that I don't really like.
11;27;05;29 - 11;27;06;18
Matt
Keep it to one.
11;27;06;18 - 11;27;28;12
Chris
I don't really like doing that to the to the 5.7 list. Who? The few that are listening though. For those of you don't know, Matt and I've been friends for about seven years now. We met in a networking group. And so we laugh a lot together and we joke a lot together. But, the crazy thing about you is you maintain, whether it's intentional or not.
11;27;28;15 - 11;27;45;14
Chris
One things I admire about you. You maintain this relative spirit of calm. And I don't think that that's just when I see you. I don't think it's just when I've seen you in a work environment, you seem to be able to maintain that, which is great because your highs probably aren't too high. Your lows probably aren't too low.
11;27;45;16 - 11;27;59;11
Chris
Do you think that because you force yourself to say, I don't care what's going on in my life, like I need an hour to Matt Stein time? Because if not, I'm not going to be great in these other areas, right? Yeah. Fair. Whether it's soccer, jujitsu or just decompressing.
11;27;59;13 - 11;28;18;15
Matt
Yeah, I think so. I think that, I have to find that balance. There's so many stresses at work. Right. Well, what we do as litigation attorneys, as trial attorneys, there's so much pressure and there's so much, intensity that if I allow that to define who I am, I won't be a very happy person. Yeah.
11;28;18;15 - 11;28;24;10
Matt
So I've got to find that middle balance. It's not always middle. I'm sure there's plenty of people that will tell you that I'm not always in the mood.
11;28;24;10 - 11;28;27;06
Chris
Your wife. I'd have a great time. Right? Right, right. For sure.
11;28;27;09 - 11;28;45;21
Matt
But I just. I have to be able to balance that. And, you know, exercise definitely calms me, you know, allows me to have that space to just breathe. Yeah. Take a deep breath. And then it also, as we all know with, with, you know, like the runner's high, the endorphins, when they're released, you start thinking clearly. You start making better decisions.
11;28;45;21 - 11;28;54;23
Matt
You start really understanding your priorities and in your head thinking, oh, I haven't done this yet. I need to do this. And so that's what exercise really does for me, allows me to think clearly.
11;28;54;25 - 11;29;10;24
Chris
Yeah. By the shape of my body. I'm not a runner, so I don't fit your fit. Thank you. So I don't get to have that runner's clarity. But I tell my kids all the time, like dad was athletic at one point. Like, I didn't weigh 195 all the time, like, I was 165 and I was doing better.
11;29;10;26 - 11;29;22;00
Chris
Let's jump right into it. So law, Stein Anderson, founding partner with, Zeb, who I just got to meet.
11;29;22;02 - 11;29;22;17
Matt
Genius.
11;29;22;17 - 11;29;44;22
Chris
Good genius, by the way. Yeah. When you started the firm with, have you has your focus always been on litigation? Yeah. And that's really been your passion right from right out of the gate. Not that. Not that helping someone create a great living trust or a dynasty trust or high net worth clients who really need a family trust.
11;29;44;24 - 11;29;50;00
Chris
I know that's all important, but you've always been passionate about the litigation, and that's really what your focus has been.
11;29;50;00 - 11;30;14;11
Matt
Yeah, I just like being in front of a judge or jury. I mean, at the end of the day, I like being, on stage, right? I like being in front of them and connecting with them in a way that is believable. Is trustworthy and, you know, figuring out how to, you know, feel their energy so that I can communicate the story to them in a way that they understand.
11;30;14;13 - 11;30;32;13
Matt
Yeah. And that they can make a decision hopefully for me. Yeah. My client. Yeah. And it just it excites me more than anything. It's it's this like, it's this high that I get when I'm in front of that jury or judge. And so starting there. Right. That's the end goal. Unfortunately we don't get to do a lot of trials these days.
11;30;32;16 - 11;30;34;17
Matt
A lot of cases resolve pretty quick settle.
11;30;34;19 - 11;30;35;01
Chris
Yeah.
11;30;35;06 - 11;30;57;18
Matt
Yeah. They settle. They resolve which is usually good for the client. And that's number one. Sure. But if you start there then you go backwards. Litigation is there's all kinds, right. You've got civil litigation, you've got business litigation, you've got, trust litigation. And so I found myself about, gosh, 15 years ago doing trust litigation because not very many people were doing it.
11;30;57;20 - 11;30;58;23
Matt
Okay. And so that.
11;30;58;23 - 11;31;08;01
Chris
Was kind of the genesis to it. You're like, yeah, I'm good at it, I like it. Yeah, I want to go to court if that's what happens. Right. And I'm passionate about trust.
11;31;08;01 - 11;31;26;18
Matt
Yeah. And so I, I work for a large law firm and I represented caterpillar on their big product defect cases going to these huge trials. I mean we're talking multi-million dollar, you know, massive, massive machinery, catastrophic injuries. Ten experts on each side, months of trial.
11;31;26;18 - 11;31;28;19
Chris
I was just going to say the prep for that's got to be massive.
11;31;28;19 - 11;31;37;21
Matt
It was sleeping at hotels for weeks on end. Setting up entire war room to figure out who we going? Who are we going to call next? And who's I mean.
11;31;37;23 - 11;31;42;22
Chris
Talk, because these are big cases, huge cases, tens of millions of dollars, hundreds of I mean, big, big cases.
11;31;42;22 - 11;31;48;11
Matt
Yeah, exactly. And so that's really where I learned how to how to be a trial attorney in these types of environments. What a.
11;31;48;16 - 11;31;51;06
Chris
What a great like what a great stopping.
11;31;51;10 - 11;31;52;05
Matt
Point.
11;31;52;07 - 11;31;59;09
Chris
To spend that time there where you really get to cut your teeth at some of the probably most difficult trials you could come across, I would.
11;31;59;09 - 11;32;16;13
Matt
Think. Yeah, at the time I didn't know it. I thought, all trials are going to be like this. And it was I did numerous ones that were just, you know, they took years to prepare for and then months to, to actually try. Yeah. And I realized that I loved it, I really did. I didn't like that.
11;32;16;13 - 11;32;39;24
Matt
It was, you know, taking me away from my family, for months at a time. Yeah. Of course, I didn't like that. I it was all consuming at times, but I knew that that's what's necessary for the client. And if I'm going to get signed up by this client, I'm going to give it everything I have. And so I started to see that I also liked the family dynamic fights, and that's where the trust litigation kind of the door opened.
11;32;39;27 - 11;32;44;04
Matt
Yeah. And I started handling some trials and some matters in which the families.
11;32;44;04 - 11;32;45;04
Chris
At your firm or.
11;32;45;04 - 11;32;48;16
Matt
Not, I, I left that firm a large firm, and I started my own.
11;32;48;16 - 11;32;49;19
Chris
Firm. Okay.
11;32;49;22 - 11;32;51;17
Matt
Gosh, roughly 2030.
11;32;51;18 - 11;32;52;24
Chris
What was it that signed law.
11;32;53;02 - 11;32;57;11
Matt
Yeah, I think it was just I think it was I love it, I don't remember now. I think it was Matt sign law.
11;32;57;12 - 11;32;58;18
Chris
I love it.
11;32;58;21 - 11;33;06;09
Matt
And I, I started doing this trust litigation stuff, and I realized that I was in courtrooms with a bunch of estate planners.
11;33;06;11 - 11;33;06;20
Chris
Who.
11;33;06;20 - 11;33;07;13
Matt
Were excellent estate.
11;33;07;13 - 11;33;09;02
Chris
Planners and not great at litigation.
11;33;09;02 - 11;33;11;06
Matt
Exactly. Yeah. And so it was.
11;33;11;09 - 11;33;22;19
Chris
All of a sudden, you become. You're just it's a step above. Right? I mean, to call it what it is. It's you're a little bit more talented in that area. You were a little bit more well read, a little more knowledgeable and probably more passionate about the outcome, I would think.
11;33;22;19 - 11;33;35;24
Matt
Yeah. And in depositions in handling yourself in front of the court, you know, that's just that's what I love doing. And yeah, the estate planners I was in the courtroom with, that was their favorite thing. Yeah. And so it was, it was I was very successful.
11;33;36;01 - 11;33;39;07
Chris
Some low hanging fruit there. For now, I will take it. What a great way to launch.
11;33;39;07 - 11;33;56;25
Matt
It was a good way. It was a good way to launch. I, then met with Zeb, who only does the transactional high end estate planning. He's also an alum and tax, and he also teaches at Chapman, so he does a lot of. Right. All the stuff that just goes over my head, I'm like, I don't want to do all that paperwork.
11;33;56;25 - 11;33;57;19
Matt
And he's brilliant at.
11;33;57;19 - 11;34;09;13
Chris
Probably stuff you don't want to do either, right? Right, right. I mean, that's his area of expertise, but you joining him probably brings him a lot of value as well, right? Because that's a category he probably didn't dance in before.
11;34;09;14 - 11;34;26;29
Matt
Right. And we we saw that we were handing each other work constantly because I don't want to do the transactional planning. He doesn't want to do the litigation. Yeah. And so it was a really good relationship from the start. And we realize in Orange County there's not very many firms that do really high end planning. Yeah. And also litigation.
11;34;27;01 - 11;34;32;00
Matt
Yeah. And so we started to build and we we took off. We really did.
11;34;32;03 - 11;34;39;08
Chris
One was that you can tell there's no order in my interview, by the way. I dance around everything is fine. Roughly one was
11;34;39;10 - 11;34;41;02
Matt
I want to say 2014.
11;34;41;02 - 11;34;42;06
Chris
When you joined, when.
11;34;42;06 - 11;34;45;12
Matt
He and I joined and we made, Law and Stein.
11;34;45;12 - 11;34;46;14
Chris
Yeah.
11;34;46;16 - 11;34;49;12
Matt
And we had, gosh, very few businesses.
11;34;49;14 - 11;34;50;17
Chris
How many people were at the firm?
11;34;50;17 - 11;34;51;26
Matt
Roughly five.
11;34;51;29 - 11;34;53;19
Chris
Six. Let's pause there for a second.
11;34;53;19 - 11;34;54;11
Matt
Sure.
11;34;54;13 - 11;35;12;21
Chris
Because since I've known you, I've watched your trajectory. Even though I know you don't like to say good things about it. No, no, I mean it. We have all had a, like, a front row. It's been really fun to watch. Right? You. It's so much more fun watching someone you like succeed too. It doesn't mean we don't want people to succeed.
11;35;12;27 - 11;35;17;14
Chris
But, like, there's a lot of us, your friends, that we've kind of had this front row seat to.
11;35;17;15 - 11;35;19;02
Matt
I love it. I love watching people succeed.
11;35;19;02 - 11;35;38;05
Chris
Yeah. And I know you think it's always so helpful. Yeah, but. So there's 5 or 6 of you. Fast forward to today for just a minute. You've got your expertise and litigation service. Got his expertise. I know that you brought on Sean Anderson, and she's an expert in the planning side.
11;35;38;05 - 11;35;38;14
Matt
And she's.
11;35;38;14 - 11;35;43;19
Chris
Excellent. She's got her team. Hum. What's the total headcount? Roughly at the firm now?
11;35;43;20 - 11;35;45;13
Matt
We're close to 50, 50 people.
11;35;45;13 - 11;35;47;15
Chris
Yeah, in a pretty short window.
11;35;47;18 - 11;35;55;03
Matt
Yeah, about 26, 27 lawyers and then staff. And then we've we've yeah we've grown pretty significantly.
11;35;55;05 - 11;36;02;12
Chris
But by adding Shauna and just more people, you really now encompass kind of all three facets of it.
11;36;02;15 - 11;36;15;12
Matt
We do a certain degree. I'd like to talk about Shauna, because that was a huge, piece of our firm growing, when she decided to join us because she had her own firm and she didn't need a job.
11;36;15;13 - 11;36;17;04
Chris
Right. Remember?
11;36;17;06 - 11;36;37;01
Matt
And she's, We were so lucky when she said. Yeah, I'd like to do this. So Shauna handles a lot of what's called trust administration, right? Which is somebody your mom and dad die, and there's a trust and some wealth there, and you've got some brothers and sisters, and you're the trustee, and you want to make sure you do everything right, and you don't want to for sure get sued.
11;36;37;01 - 11;36;47;24
Matt
And you maybe you have a brother, sister that's not your favorite, and you just want to follow the rules of the trust. Yeah, that's where you hire Shauna. She'll come in and make sure you are going to follow those rules. Yeah. And she'll guide you.
11;36;47;29 - 11;37;01;02
Chris
And we're going to talk about that okay. In a minute by the way. No, no keep going. But we're going to talk about that because that's one of the most probably impactful things you and I'll talk about, because that will really speak to most of the audience. Okay. Now there are 7.3 listeners. But now to really be an impact for them.
11;37;01;02 - 11;37;07;27
Chris
So so you bring on Shauna, right. You met her through pro visors. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And you guys started doing some sort of business.
11;37;07;29 - 11;37;08;19
Matt
You know.
11;37;08;20 - 11;37;09;14
Chris
Just being friends.
11;37;09;14 - 11;37;18;29
Matt
Being friends. She and I have a lot in common. She also played Division one soccer. She's got three kids. Yeah. She and I just had so many different things that were like, this is this is great.
11;37;18;29 - 11;37;19;18
Chris
Yeah.
11;37;19;20 - 11;37;23;03
Matt
And we're in the same chapter of life, you know? Yeah. And that was.
11;37;23;03 - 11;37;40;16
Chris
You guys are similar dispositions. I know, you know, that you guys have similar dispositions. You can both have a great time, but you're when I spent time with her, like for the working mom and wife, like she's pretty level as far as her disposition. So I could see why that's a synergy for the two of you. Because I think you're very.
11;37;40;16 - 11;37;53;01
Matt
Similar in that. Yeah, yeah. Thank you. That's a compliment. I appreciate that. I, you know, I really value her as an attorney. As a friend. The firm has really grown because of her guidance.
11;37;53;04 - 11;37;53;17
Chris
I love them.
11;37;53;17 - 11;38;00;15
Matt
Excellent. And then a few years later, we made Christine Allen a partner. She is.
11;38;00;15 - 11;38;06;14
Chris
A also from Provo. Also from. Not that we own stock and from advisors are going to play providers, but it is what it is true.
11;38;06;14 - 11;38;30;06
Matt
Yeah. She's she's excellent. She's a, estate litigation attorney. Yeah. And in my totally biased opinion, probably one of the best trial attorneys in Orange County, if not LA. Wow. I she's she's a force to be reckoned with. She's an excellent estate litigation attorney. She understands that probate code, she understands judges. She is fantastic with clients.
11;38;30;11 - 11;38;39;03
Matt
So you put those, you know, those three. Zeb, Shauna, Christine. I guess you slide me in there as well. We're very fortunate that our.
11;38;39;07 - 11;38;39;25
Chris
Your name is on the.
11;38;39;25 - 11;38;43;03
Matt
Wall, I guess. Yeah. All right. So it's been it's been a fun ride.
11;38;43;08 - 11;39;13;16
Chris
Yeah, sure. Let's talk about that for just a minute. Hardest thing that you experienced to go from 5 to 50, like, like what was the one thing that stands out, you know, like, people don't realize if you haven't grown an organization, that there's a lot of fun in it. There's a lot of stress, right? Some days you're literally taking out trash cans and and other days you're trying to find out who can I have take out the trash can in a way that's going to make our customer experience great.
11;39;13;18 - 11;39;14;19
Matt
Yeah.
11;39;14;21 - 11;39;23;16
Chris
Quick thing off the top of your head. What was 1 or 2 of the single hardest things, most difficult challenges to go from 5 to 15 in a relatively short period of time?
11;39;23;18 - 11;39;41;02
Matt
Yeah, it's a great question. I, I think there's two things. One, I think, you know, making sure that I'm still close with everybody in the office, that I know who they are, that I know their husbands or spouses name, that I know who their kids are as you grow, you start to see people in the office that maybe you didn't personally hire.
11;39;41;02 - 11;39;43;05
Matt
And you're like, who? Who is that?
11;39;43;06 - 11;39;43;21
Chris
Yeah.
11;39;43;23 - 11;39;46;01
Matt
Yeah, right. And I don't want to have that environment.
11;39;46;08 - 11;39;49;22
Chris
You're sneaking around the corner asking a staff member someone's name or something, right? Right. Yeah.
11;39;49;22 - 11;40;06;18
Matt
And so for me, it's really important that I know who people are and, and, you know, their life and what they like. And then what I call it, they're why why do they come in the office every day? It's not always just because of money. There's a lot of other reasons. And so we have y lunches where I take people to lunch and I ask them that question, what is it that you.
11;40;06;18 - 11;40;08;10
Chris
See that kind of your role at the firm?
11;40;08;13 - 11;40;08;26
Matt
I don't know.
11;40;08;26 - 11;40;24;28
Chris
I'm not saying I mean, it doesn't do that stuff, but is that because every time I'm with you and there's someone from the firm, one of the things you're very good about is you're very good to stop and make an introduction immediately. If you know someone and they, you're very good about making that connection. And so it seems like that's been kind of a role that.
11;40;24;28 - 11;40;27;29
Matt
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I like it, I enjoy it. Yeah. It's.
11;40;27;29 - 11;40;33;00
Chris
Not like on the org chart that Matt Smith had a no employee experience or something. No.
11;40;33;00 - 11;40;50;10
Matt
I, I just, I, I know that the morale in the office is key. We've all worked in places that were not great, for sure. Like, that's how we learn, I'm sure. But some of those places were so traumatic for me, that they really made me, like, realize, like it. What kind of environment do I want to walk into every day?
11;40;50;17 - 11;41;06;03
Matt
Right. And so no yelpers, no screamers, no door slamming. Somebody where we all. I say this all the time to to the office. Nobody wants to work. We don't want to come into work. Right. But if we're going to, like, let's have a place that's fun, make sure that we care about each other. Right. And so.
11;41;06;09 - 11;41;08;06
Chris
So creating that culture is hard, right?
11;41;08;06 - 11;41;09;27
Matt
It's super hard. And that's one of the things I.
11;41;09;27 - 11;41;10;19
Chris
Think of people.
11;41;10;19 - 11;41;27;23
Matt
Right. That's one of the things growing that fast is making sure that those people all fit that mold. We have four core values at my firm. Yeah. And those core values, our vendors, our clients, whoever they are, we kind of, you know, we look at them and to see if they sit, because we have to work with these people on a daily basis.
11;41;27;23 - 11;41;35;28
Matt
So we make sure that that if it's not a good fit, there's plenty of other work out there. Yeah, that does fit. Yeah. So we move on.
11;41;36;01 - 11;42;00;18
Chris
I've read enough books. I've had enough failures to know that if you could coin that and put that on video and tell every single self-employed business owner that starting now, if they could remember one thing, you nailed it. Trying to understand, like what you do best and what's your core, and realizing someone may come in and if they don't fit that core, that may not be the right client.
11;42;00;22 - 11;42;09;14
Chris
Yeah. And it's hard to, as you know, especially when you started out, it's hard to say no to someone. You're like, I could really use this check because I've got a kid that needs cleats.
11;42;09;17 - 11;42;26;24
Matt
I mean, it's money. It's like, hey, something. Right? Right. But we all know what happens once that comes in. It's the headache that it that it creates, right? So if I'm not working on that matter and there's another attorney and another paralegal on another staff, and I've just made their life a living hell because of this situation, it's not worth.
11;42;26;24 - 11;42;28;11
Chris
It and lose opportunities for the other stuff.
11;42;28;11 - 11;42;29;22
Matt
And it's not worth it.
11;42;29;24 - 11;42;48;29
Chris
Give me one unexpected like victory. Like you're going through this growth process happens pretty fast. You're adding people trying to create culture. What was one thing that happened that maybe you didn't expect to happen as well as it did? And you're like, oh my gosh, like this is just a byproduct. I don't even know if I tried to make that happen, but shit, it happens.
11;42;48;29 - 11;42;50;28
Chris
Yeah, yeah. What a home run. That was it. Can you think of.
11;42;50;29 - 11;43;03;26
Matt
Yeah, it just happened. It happened a few months ago. One. I had no idea that one of our, paralegals, she nominated the firm as one of the top workplaces in Orange County.
11;43;03;26 - 11;43;04;14
Chris
Yeah.
11;43;04;16 - 11;43;17;11
Matt
The company reached out to the partners and were like, can you fill out these forms? Blah, blah, blah? And I was like, hold on, how much is this going to cost in one of these things that I have to buy, right? And they're like, no, it's free. We'll give you the results. We'll let you know how your firm is doing.
11;43;17;11 - 11;43;33;20
Matt
We interview your people. And I was like, okay, great, let's see how we're doing. Yeah, we got the results back. And the the individual from the company was like, we've not really seen results like this before. And I was like, yeah, you tell everybody that, how much do I have to come? So I have to buy right.
11;43;33;22 - 11;43;35;09
Chris
How many subscriptions?
11;43;35;10 - 11;43;40;14
Matt
Right. And he's like, no, he's like, we'd like to invite you guys to our, award gala. And I was like.
11;43;40;14 - 11;43;44;01
Chris
Okay, great. It's not everyone I know the awards you're talking about. Not everyone gets invited to that.
11;43;44;01 - 11;43;51;10
Matt
Correct. Okay. And so we, we asked our staff because they're the ones that filled these forms out, and they're the ones who participated.
11;43;51;10 - 11;43;52;19
Chris
Are they really anonymous, by the way?
11;43;52;26 - 11;43;54;05
Matt
Yeah. I never saw.
11;43;54;08 - 11;43;55;27
Chris
You. And the partners don't see them.
11;43;55;29 - 11;43;59;28
Matt
No, we see the results like the. Yeah, the the analytics. Right. But I don't.
11;43;59;29 - 11;44;00;19
Chris
You don't know which.
11;44;00;22 - 11;44;02;13
Matt
Person. No I didn't.
11;44;02;15 - 11;44;05;17
Chris
Which is the best way to do it. True. Only way they're going to be.
11;44;05;17 - 11;44;06;16
Matt
I want it to be fair.
11;44;06;18 - 11;44;07;06
Chris
Of course.
11;44;07;06 - 11;44;23;17
Matt
Yeah. And so, not only were we nominated, we ended up winning number one place to work workplace in Orange County. And so, like, award and, one of our. So she's got up to speak in front of the gala. It was really amazing. I was really proud of the firm.
11;44;23;20 - 11;44;24;22
Chris
Oh my gosh, for.
11;44;24;22 - 11;44;32;28
Matt
Them for because it's the employees that got to to vote and they're the ones that got to say that. Like it made me feel amazing. Like I've been flying high since.
11;44;33;01 - 11;44;54;29
Chris
I mean, you almost I know you you're you're never boss. You're not a pretentious guy. Even Millstein has to leave that night and go home to your wife and just feel like we're just trying to do good here, and look what happened, right? Right. Is that fair statement? Like, you have to take a pause and say, oh my gosh, like, I can't believe that I get to be part of this.
11;44;54;29 - 11;44;56;11
Chris
And this is how my employees.
11;44;56;11 - 11;45;09;23
Matt
Feel, right? Exactly. I just I look at it in the sense of like these employees like coming into work. They like being here and like, what can I can I ask for? Because when they like being there, they want to do good work.
11;45;09;23 - 11;45;10;08
Chris
For sure.
11;45;10;08 - 11;45;20;28
Matt
And they want to bring their friends over to my office and work there. And we grow with other people who have that same core, those same core values. Yeah. So it's been it's been a great, fun journey.
11;45;20;28 - 11;45;35;15
Chris
Congrats on that. Thanks, man, I love that. We're going to spend a few minutes in a little bit more technical, okay. On on what you do. So, you know, I, I have a living trust right? I have one I understand shauna's role.
11;45;35;15 - 11;45;37;17
Matt
I am I have beneficiary of your trust.
11;45;37;19 - 11;46;11;10
Chris
You are 100% not a beneficiary. I trust, but you are on the ladder as a backup, just in case. Okay. Yeah. Let's talk about litigation. Sure. For the few listeners, you've got a family. Mom and dad passed away, right? There's siblings, and one of them is a trustee. Hypothetically. First question. When it comes to the kids fighting and when you get involved, they're probably starting out the fight because one of the beneficiaries doesn't agree with it.
11;46;11;10 - 11;46;26;09
Chris
Wants more money, wants more, say, wants more. Something is that typically a result when one of the kids is the trustee versus a fiduciary or, firm is a merchant bank or something like that?
11;46;26;11 - 11;46;45;01
Matt
Yeah. A lot of times what happens is the say, there's three kids, right? And one of the kids just, just never got along with mom and dad. And mom and dad love them, and they're in the trust as beneficiary. But they just kid was just tough. Tough guy, right? For whatever reasons. Yeah. And that kid's not named as the trustee.
11;46;45;01 - 11;47;00;17
Matt
Maybe the other two kids are co trustees or one of them is usually the oldest is. Right. Sure. And so there's a lot of built up resentment a lot I'm sure. And so when mom and dad pass the individual beneficiary who's just jilted.
11;47;00;19 - 11;47;00;29
Chris
Yeah.
11;47;00;29 - 11;47;10;20
Matt
And he may be getting the same amount a third, but because he's not in control, it just creates all of these, emotional decisions.
11;47;10;25 - 11;47;11;19
Chris
Yeah.
11;47;11;21 - 11;47;21;13
Matt
That unfortunately cost the trust a lot of money because the trustee, who's the oldest is going to use trust funds to defend the trust if a lawsuit filed.
11;47;21;19 - 11;47;21;29
Chris
Right.
11;47;21;29 - 11;47;56;06
Matt
And so it just opens up this avenue of litigation that unfortunately really tears a family apart. Yeah. But on that same note, you know, having a a professional fiduciary like a third party who's not affiliated with the family that has a fiduciary license or a corporate fiduciary like a bank, farmers and merchants. Sure. That seems to, in my experience, over 20 years seems to really avoid litigation, because what happens then is those those three kids, they have now a joint person to point a finger they can hate.
11;47;56;06 - 11;48;10;10
Matt
I don't like you. Right. Yeah. It's not a brother sister. Yeah. And the family actually stays together because of that. So I've seen a little bit that the problem is you have to pay that professional fiduciary. Right. More money. Corporate fiduciary even more money. Yeah. But it avoids litigation.
11;48;10;10 - 11;48;32;22
Chris
Yeah. I remember we had talked a while back. I know you never disclosed names, and I, but I remember you talking about we were talking about a case one time, and you were. You're really, like, torn up because these siblings now, like, hate each other. Yeah. And I remember you saying there's ways that people could avoid this and keep the family together.
11;48;32;22 - 11;48;48;27
Chris
And one of the things I loved about that statement was that statement actually takes business out of your pocket to a certain degree. And I but I love that that's who you are at your core. You're like, I hate seeing these siblings hate each other. I make a living defending the people that are trying to do it right.
11;48;49;00 - 11;49;03;16
Chris
But I those are the stories that we hear so much, and I don't think that the generation not minding your generation, but our parents generation where the biggest transfer of wealth that's coming, it seems like the majority of them are still picking their kids because they are.
11;49;03;19 - 11;49;04;26
Matt
Just feels better, right?
11;49;04;26 - 11;49;32;06
Chris
It just feels better. Or they don't know which corporate fiduciary to go to or whatever. So quick question on that. Because my age is in full swing right now. Let's go. Why can attorneys be fiduciary like I'll give you an example. Can I have Shauna build my living trust. And then when when we pass away I'm aware you can do trust administration where you make sure the trustees doing right but can law sign innocent also be the trustee.
11;49;32;08 - 11;49;33;26
Chris
So is that kind of a.
11;49;33;29 - 11;49;49;19
Matt
So individuals need to be a trustee right. Okay. So we usually let clients know that if we're going to draft your trust and sometimes they look at us and they're like well this blank which is I got to fill in who's going to be my trustee. You just drafted my trust. You know, all about our assets. My family.
11;49;49;24 - 11;49;52;27
Matt
Can you be my trustee? Right. That's a huge problem.
11;49;53;00 - 11;49;53;28
Chris
Yeah.
11;49;54;00 - 11;49;56;14
Matt
It optics. It doesn't look good for sure.
11;49;56;15 - 11;49;57;13
Chris
Really does are some.
11;49;57;15 - 11;50;14;09
Matt
There are legal ways to go about it that protect both sides. Yeah. You can get a certificate independent review. Meaning you go to a third attorney and say, hey, this firm drafted my trust. Yeah, I want this attorney to be my trustee. Can you look at this and make sure it's okay? You can do that.
11;50;14;10 - 11;50;22;03
Chris
Would you have to have that layer of protection? Because not everyone's going to do it right. Like, and I know you're going to do it right. And I know there's a lot of great. Well, I have a lot.
11;50;22;03 - 11;50;32;21
Matt
Of lawsuits in which the attorney who drafts the trust puts himself in his trustee, okay. And then he's in charge, and then he takes a he takes trustee fees and legal fees.
11;50;32;21 - 11;50;33;27
Chris
It's got to be a conflict.
11;50;33;29 - 11;50;35;06
Matt
A huge conflict.
11;50;35;10 - 11;50;37;02
Chris
Which is probably why you don't even.
11;50;37;05 - 11;50;38;21
Matt
I don't say you could.
11;50;38;21 - 11;50;39;20
Chris
Potentially do it.
11;50;39;26 - 11;50;41;07
Matt
We just don't really need to.
11;50;41;07 - 11;50;43;19
Chris
I don't want to give for, you know, not worth it.
11;50;43;21 - 11;51;01;05
Matt
You know, we'd rather them get a professional fiduciary in there. Yeah. And I think one of the questions you are going to ask is can attorney also be a professional fiduciary. So in California, which is one of the only states where there's actual licensing for fiduciaries, if you think a fiduciary, it's the person in charge of the pot, right?
11;51;01;05 - 11;51;10;02
Matt
That's what a fiduciary really is like a trustee. Yeah. And so a fiduciary can be licensed in California. Attorneys do not need a license to be a fiduciary. They already have one there.
11;51;10;03 - 11;51;11;12
Chris
Okay.
11;51;11;14 - 11;51;19;11
Matt
And so I know it gets a little bit complicated here, but, you can you can name a professional fiduciary who's also an attorney.
11;51;19;14 - 11;51;35;05
Chris
Okay. So I'll give you a hypothetical. Yeah. You draft your firm drafts, you know, whatever agreement it drafts. And their cousin who lives in Alhambra is an attorney. They could potentially be just the trustee. Right. But they didn't weren't involved in preparing.
11;51;35;07 - 11;51;46;25
Matt
It happens all the time. It's like, families say, look, your uncle who lives on the other side of California, he's going to be the trustee. Yeah. And that uncle was an attorney, you know?
11;51;46;25 - 11;51;47;14
Chris
Yeah.
11;51;47;16 - 11;51;58;06
Matt
For 30 years. Okay, guys, so that happens that happens. The problem with that is, is that the uncle doesn't have a good relationship with the beneficiaries, the kids. Okay? And that's where things get sticky.
11;51;58;09 - 11;52;19;06
Chris
And I think people you said something earlier, I watched one of my very closest friends go through a really contentious divorce and before it got really nasty, the the wife, who is a dear friend of ours, didn't want to fight anymore and she just wanted to be done with it. But he wanted to fight and she decided to fight.
11;52;19;06 - 11;52;30;28
Chris
And she says, Chris, what do you think? I said, here's what I think. I said, how much is how much is in the pot? She told me. I said, here's how much is going to be left for the fight. Is is the fight worth it? She goes, yeah. And so she fought and she lost.
11;52;31;00 - 11;52;31;18
Matt
All of it.
11;52;31;21 - 11;52;50;04
Chris
70% of what was going to be there. Yeah. Difficult to get sometimes siblings to maybe see that that it's like hey listen, you can keep paying me and you're going to pay this person. You pay this person. All we're doing is diluting the pot. Yeah. What do they have to just go through the fight sometimes because that's what they just have to go through.
11;52;50;04 - 11;53;04;04
Matt
I mean, you you hit a that's a crux that I have conversations with clients. I just had a, a conversation with the potential client yesterday. Exactly this. How much is the pot? Okay, here's what the legal fees, we don't know, but roughly is going to cost.
11;53;04;04 - 11;53;05;01
Chris
Yeah.
11;53;05;03 - 11;53;20;24
Matt
If the pot is not significantly higher than what these legal fees are. You know, I always tell the clients, look, you're you're not going to end up with a lot. Even if you win, you're not going to end up with a lot because you just spent so much in legal fees. Right? Because it's almost.
11;53;20;26 - 11;53;23;26
Chris
An inherently the trust is going to pay those legal fees, like you said.
11;53;23;27 - 11;53;41;05
Matt
Yeah. Depending on its trust. Yeah. Right. But that you have to balance that. Yeah. As a good attorney you have to look at that and say to them now to your point, there's a lot of clients that come to us and say, I don't care what it's costing. Like I don't care. Yeah, I want to follow my mom or dad's intent.
11;53;41;09 - 11;53;49;19
Matt
Yeah. That's the most important thing that I want to happen, is that my mom and dad didn't want this thing to happen. That my brother did.
11;53;49;19 - 11;53;50;16
Chris
Yeah.
11;53;50;18 - 11;54;05;07
Matt
Okay. I understand. I can walk you through that. I can, I can I feel that I'm sympathetic to that. But I want you to remember that in six months, when you're getting my legal bills. Right. So let's talk about this.
11;54;05;07 - 11;54;15;25
Chris
But but like, I love that there are some people that might be like, because I'm sure, especially in your world, I'm sure there's good people and there's also people that are just in it for the money.
11;54;15;25 - 11;54;40;29
Matt
Grab I've got. I got one right now. There's, there's an apartment complex of over $60 million at issue, and these two gentlemen just keep fighting over it. Yeah. And at their age, they will never see the money. I mean, yeah, they're elderly, right? But it doesn't matter. It's principle. Yeah. They've never liked each other for years. And so it's all about that internal emotional conflict.
11;54;41;02 - 11;54;41;19
Chris
Of the battle.
11;54;41;20 - 11;54;47;03
Matt
So I gotta put it my psychology hat on and be like, okay, let's unpack this. Like, why? Why don't you like each other? Yeah.
11;54;47;03 - 11;54;48;25
Chris
And so you have to get that deep.
11;54;48;25 - 11;55;01;17
Matt
Sometimes I do, because I want to understand the real motivation. If it's not money, I gotta understand what is going to get these guys to the table to resolve this case. Yeah. Like, what are we going to do to figure it out? Oh, is it because you got the red bike when you were ten and he got the blue one?
11;55;01;19 - 11;55;18;28
Matt
I know it sounds silly, but that's actually a matter that I dealt with. He was always resentful that the other child got the things he wanted, including the red bike. Yeah. And so you stack that for years and years and years and you have this resentment. So I have to unpack it. And look, I'm not a psychologist, but if I can get to that root.
11;55;18;28 - 11;55;19;18
Chris
Yeah.
11;55;19;21 - 11;55;22;09
Matt
My job is to get them to a table to resolve the case.
11;55;22;16 - 11;55;42;16
Chris
Maybe maybe help them see a little bit more that there's something else they're not just. Yeah, yeah, I, I, I could imagine like the therapeutic side of your job. Yeah. Even though, like you, like I didn't go get my, you know, NFT or something like that. But the therapeutic side has to play a role. If you're. And I imagine there's a point, people are just like, we're going to fight.
11;55;42;22 - 11;55;58;02
Chris
And you're like, okay, well, let's let's fight. And that's what I do. And then we're just going to do that. I could also imagine there's some sometimes there's a little bit of a victory of like they're going to settle and this person's giving up a little bit. This person's getting a little bit. But at least they're not going to.
11;55;58;04 - 11;56;10;03
Chris
They're just going to get through it. Now. They're not going to have as much anger and frustration. And stuff like that, because I know the human side of you prefers people to not hate each other, and there's always going to be the people that you're going to have to litigate. Yeah. To defend.
11;56;10;03 - 11;56;34;29
Matt
Right there are I try to make them understand, like this is a family member, this lawsuit that you want to file. Yeah. It's going to it's going to have a huge divide in the family. Yeah. And like if you know that and you're okay with that like we can move forward. But I'm not I'm sensitive to the emotional side significantly more considering I have a family, I have kids, I have a brother and sister, I have a mom and dad.
11;56;34;29 - 11;56;51;23
Matt
Like how does that look? Yeah. And so I want to make sure they really understand not just the cost but the emotional toll that litigation is going to have on them. Yeah. And yes, I may lose business because of it, but if their family stays together in some way, like that's worth its weight in gold to me.
11;56;51;27 - 11;57;16;01
Chris
Well, and I, I know you know this, that there's enough business to go around anyway. Everyone I know that gives a shit about what they do for a living when people really say, I'm going to put my client's needs first and the monetization will come later, and if I get to transact, that's great. Let's transact. If we're going to do the right thing and we don't transact on this and we're going to transact right on the next one.
11;57;16;01 - 11;57;42;26
Chris
So let me yeah. Let me, let me what's the best advice? This might be a hard one because I know you have to be careful what you say legally. I'm sorry. What's your opinion on someone high net worth individual. They've got their living trust. Would you would would would your group try and encourage them to do the corporate or fiduciary or do you just kind of say, listen, if you want your kid, here's the pros and cons.
11;57;42;26 - 11;57;51;06
Chris
If you own a corporate one, do you just kind of lay out the options. And obviously they're going to pick which way they want to go, whether you try and guide them to protect themselves.
11;57;51;06 - 11;58;11;22
Matt
Yeah, I mean every family is a little bit different with the dynamics, right? Yeah. And so if the if the mom and dad have, you know, a lot of wealth and they're trying to figure out should we be naming all three of our kids or two of our kids is trustees? None of them, as litigation has just increased.
11;58;11;29 - 11;58;29;18
Matt
And you can see that in the probate courts. I mean, the court's docket is stacks and stacks of cases, 406 hundred cases per judge. I mean, it's it's massive. Yeah. Which means that it's it's it's taking forever for cases to be heard, let alone actually get to trial year to year. Oh. Many years. Wow. Many years.
11;58;29;18 - 11;58;33;24
Chris
Because I know a regular probate, what, 18 months to two years right now, give or take.
11;58;33;27 - 11;58;36;04
Matt
Give or take, depending in Orange County, LA or San Diego.
11;58;36;04 - 11;58;39;04
Chris
But the litigation starts much longer.
11;58;39;04 - 11;59;04;17
Matt
Yeah. So, you know, when you look at how long it takes, you know, matters in court, you have to really think about like, is this decision can I live with this decision for a long time? But backing up and answering your question, I'm a huge proponent of professional fiduciaries. Okay? Not corporate fiduciary. They're good, and they have their role.
11;59;04;17 - 11;59;14;09
Matt
Sure, but professional fiduciary that your family can work with while you're still alive, that you can build relationships with. And those professional fiduciaries then take over.
11;59;14;11 - 11;59;14;21
Chris
Yeah.
11;59;14;21 - 11;59;28;00
Matt
And they're the ones who are making sure that your true intent is followed. It's just going. I know that it's not a family member, but in the long run, it's going to save your family dynamic, and it's going to keep your family together.
11;59;28;02 - 11;59;48;12
Chris
The fiduciary, you and I know a couple of them. Yeah, it seems like I love what you just said. They get to be impartial. The three kids can have a common enemy. But I love what you just said, where they can kind of get to know the settlers before they pass away so that, you know, you can really follow the writing.
11;59;48;12 - 12;00;01;27
Chris
But even sometimes there's it's hard to plan for every single circumstance. But if they know you and what your intentions are and they know about your kids, it might make that decision for them more of easier to steer to the right path of what your intentions would have been.
12;00;01;27 - 12;00;23;06
Matt
Yeah, right. Yeah. Trust. Experience, is a fiduciary service company that does an excellent job at understanding the family dynamics. It's stepping in as a fiduciary at managing that, you know, whether it's bill pay, whatever is necessary. Yeah. Trust experience is an excellent job. At that. And that's who I'm really telling most of my clients to go to.
12;00;23;06 - 12;00;24;24
Matt
Yeah. I'm like just hired them.
12;00;24;24 - 12;00;35;16
Chris
That's a huge accolade, by the way. Yeah. Because I know you have to be very careful in saying like, hey, I like this person or trust this person or something. I know that doesn't come lightly for you.
12;00;35;16 - 12;00;54;27
Matt
Yeah, but trust experience is seems they have I've seen their work and they do an excellent job of making sure the professional fiduciary, is acting in a fiduciary way is making taking care of all of the bills, making sure that the fiduciary, the beneficiaries are taken care of. Yeah. Like they're professionals. Yeah. So that's who I go to.
12;00;54;28 - 12;01;06;03
Matt
There's others in the community. But to answer your question, if you want to avoid litigation, if you think your kids are not going to get along, even hint at that if it smells like that, go hire a professional fiduciary.
12;01;06;08 - 12;01;23;20
Chris
Yeah. My wife and I chose one of my best friends. It's a little bit older. He's a little bit crotchety. And it's funny because we've told our kids, hey, we've updated living Trust. Here's. Yeah, here's where the bodies are buried. And, two of the three kids are like, oh, yeah, that sounds great. It's great. Perfect.
12;01;23;25 - 12;01;30;02
Chris
You get to see the look. I want to mow the kid's face off like, oh, shit, I'm not getting away with that. Oh, no. So we we went.
12;01;30;03 - 12;01;32;03
Matt
Oh that's good. I mean, that's what you want, right? Yeah.
12;01;32;03 - 12;01;54;16
Chris
We went that route, by talking to you and. Yeah, there's that. I know, I couldn't pick one kid. I candidly, I couldn't pick one kid who I thought 1,000,000,000,000% would do everything we said. Not nothing against them. And I couldn't pick a kid who I didn't think may not buckle a little bit because they don't want that tension with the brother or the sister.
12;01;54;18 - 12;02;22;18
Chris
And so for for us, that's what we did. One more thing on this. How? Because I know the fiduciaries are, let's say it's common and corporate fiduciary is a little bit different, right? Maybe it's a big bank with some oversight. Your fiduciary company you just referenced. How do I as a trustee, I want to presume everyone's going to be honest, but how do I, as a trustee just say, yeah, I just want to make sure it's on.
12;02;22;18 - 12;02;35;00
Chris
It's like, do I get a statement every month? Do I can I request information like, obviously you pay them to do their job, but how is the trustee? Do I know that someone I don't know isn't taking the money that my mom and dad?
12;02;35;00 - 12;02;41;16
Matt
It's just accountings. You can ask for accountings every month. Okay. Yeah, there's there needs to be total transparency and all of those things because.
12;02;41;16 - 12;02;42;16
Chris
That's the good ones. Do it.
12;02;42;21 - 12;02;55;18
Matt
Well. That's what we see in litigation, right? I get it, I get a call from a beneficiary and they say, I don't know the trustee who's in charge of this trust mom and dad or die. They they have a trustee I don't know, this trustee. And, I don't know what they're doing with the money. I don't know what they're doing with the rental houses.
12;02;55;18 - 12;03;12;15
Matt
I don't know where Mom and dad's, you know, Morgan Stanley accounts went. Yeah. The trustee won't give me anything, won't tell me anything. And I know Mom and dad had $10 million. Yeah, I'm. I'm not saying I want all that money, but, like, where is where what's happening? Yeah. And that's where beneficiaries I get the most calls and that's where we can really help.
12;03;12;21 - 12;03;27;13
Matt
Yeah, we can step in and we can. We have the language to use to send to trustees to say, here's what we require, here's what we are demanding. Yeah. And you have a certain amount of time to get it to us. And if you don't here's the results. Yeah. And that's where beneficiaries should be calling us.
12;03;27;16 - 12;03;46;06
Chris
I was just going to say that seems to be kind of like, is that kind of like a first call that might come? And I know your firm handles a few different verticals on that, but like for Matt Stein in particular for your litigation group, that's probably a first call, right? Maybe someone's got a concern about I don't know where the trustee is doing with it because we don't can get bank statements.
12;03;46;08 - 12;03;48;06
Chris
You're not getting our money or something, right? Yeah.
12;03;48;07 - 12;03;48;23
Matt
Give me a call.
12;03;48;23 - 12;03;49;17
Chris
That's a great start.
12;03;49;17 - 12;03;59;08
Matt
That is number one start. Or the trustee saying I got these beneficiaries. I want to leave me alone. Yeah, I'm doing my job and they won't leave me alone. And I think they're going to sue me. Yeah, I need some help.
12;03;59;08 - 12;04;00;22
Chris
I mean, you can defend them as well.
12;04;00;22 - 12;04;07;07
Matt
Yes, absolutely. So trustees, we really enjoy representing trustees. Yeah. And we definitely represent beneficiaries all the time.
12;04;07;07 - 12;04;26;16
Chris
For sure because you've got both right. You've got the beneficiary who's not getting what they need from the trustees. So that trustee needs to be accountable. Yeah. But then you've got the trustee who's probably trying to do the right thing. And they're just getting attacked. And they're like, we need you to defend us, right? Yeah, yeah. We've talked way too much work, but sometimes I always have a plan.
12;04;26;16 - 12;04;40;23
Chris
Like, I think I'm going to talk them out about this, and it's going to be more personal. Yeah. And then I love it. Just it's like, yeah, it flows. We're going to wrap up here, but I want to talk about a couple really quick things. And I ask this question of people with kids because my kids are grown.
12;04;40;25 - 12;04;59;21
Chris
Biggest fear for your kids in the next 10 or 20 years. And, you know, you know, it could be a cell phone, it could be social media, it could be it could be, you know, is is Venezuela about oil or everything big. Biggest fear. Three kids, teenagers like next ten years. Like.
12;04;59;24 - 12;05;13;26
Matt
I know it sounds cliche, but I like I don't know what it's going to look like for them. Yeah. I don't know what what doors are going to close that were open for me. Sure. You know, I, I know that my kids will be fine. So it's not really a fear. It's more of just a curiosity of what?
12;05;13;27 - 12;05;15;17
Matt
What is it going to look like for them?
12;05;15;19 - 12;05;16;23
Chris
Yeah. What's that impact?
12;05;16;27 - 12;05;30;14
Matt
Yeah. Like, whether it's majors at colleges, whether it's, jobs, careers. Like what? How are they going to stay relevant? Yeah. How are they going to be at the forefront of I know that they're the valuable ones, not the ones trying to catch up.
12;05;30;16 - 12;05;40;25
Chris
Aren't you? I'm always grateful for whatever phase of life I'm in. Right. I'm in my 50s. I'm so grateful I don't have to deal with. I, you know, to a certain degree.
12;05;40;25 - 12;05;41;18
Matt
I get it. I like.
12;05;41;18 - 12;05;57;17
Chris
Oh, no, no, I love that. Yeah. Some stuff I do, but I love that at almost 59 years old, I don't have to even think about reinventing myself because my runway's shorter. Yeah. No, it's younger than me. You're runway shorter. My granddaughter's age. I worry about her runway. Yeah, I and stuff like that.
12;05;57;17 - 12;06;09;01
Matt
Yeah. I mean, like my parents, you know, they're like, I never knew, you know, I don't know how you guys do it these days. And I'm saying the same thing to my kids. It's the same thing. But I. I'm excited for them. I'm really excited for them. I think they've got a really bright future. All the kids.
12;06;09;06 - 12;06;24;09
Chris
Let's talk about that because I always ask people like, hey, what's your biggest fear? Yeah. What are you most excited about for your kids in the next ten years? Like because it's different. Our parents, teenagers were different. Mine here are different. Our kids can be a little bit different. What are you most excited about?
12;06;24;11 - 12;06;37;19
Matt
They're just. There's so much more skills when it comes to computers and and technology and, like, the ability for their brains to just expand from that. I mean, the things that my kids are bringing me from Canva and all these different things, I'm just like, this is.
12;06;37;19 - 12;06;41;23
Chris
Amazing, and there's so much better about it than we are. Yeah, I mean, they crush it, I love it.
12;06;41;23 - 12;06;57;24
Matt
And so for me, I'm excited to see what they build, what they create, what they manage. Yeah. Like I just I know that my kids are going to, to build on some amazing things. They already have. And so for me, I just I can't wait I can't wait to just be that person eating popcorn and watching them just expand all over.
12;06;57;27 - 12;07;16;22
Chris
One of the things I love the most is I've used Excel my whole life. Yeah. And I've never been great at PowerPoint. I got a 36 year old, daughter in law who's an Excel wizard. Yeah, and I got a 31 year old daughter who I can send you to them and say, hey, can you knock this out for me?
12;07;16;25 - 12;07;22;10
Chris
I know how to read it. I know how to do it and stuff like that. But I love having kids, so I got no pride.
12;07;22;12 - 12;07;23;23
Matt
Yeah, that's the power. Whoo! Not how.
12;07;23;23 - 12;07;42;01
Chris
Right. Yeah. That's right. I got no pride. Like if anybody can help me. Great. Listen, I I'm glad we got. We got to talk. I'm going to have you kind of do your takeaway in just a second. But what I really want you to do is, only look at that camera, tell people how to get Ahold of you, and, like, when's the best time to reach out to you?
12;07;42;01 - 12;07;44;29
Matt
Yeah, sure. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I really appreciate.
12;07;45;00 - 12;07;46;17
Chris
No worries. This is great. It goes fast.
12;07;46;17 - 12;07;47;03
Matt
It does?
12;07;47;03 - 12;07;47;13
Chris
Yeah.
12;07;47;14 - 12;08;07;09
Matt
Let's go fast. LSA lawyers.com. You can Google my name. You can find me, at, law Stein. Anderson, I want you to think of me when you think there's something going on with your family before it happens. Whenever there's issues with mom and dad when you think that you're starting to lose capacity. Do they have a trust?
12;08;07;12 - 12;08;25;13
Matt
Who's going to be the trustee? If you think that one of your brothers or sisters are taking advantage of mom and dad? We call it capture the king or capture the Queen, you don't even know where mom is or dad is. There's just things that are not there. Not right. Before anything serious happens, give me a call.
12;08;25;16 - 12;08;42;02
Matt
I can walk you through the steps. Hopefully I don't need to get involved. Hopefully you don't need to hire me. But the sooner you call me for any issues, the sooner I can guide you and give you sort of a protocol for what to do, which has worked for many, many of our friends and family so they can avoid litigation.
12;08;42;02 - 12;09;00;02
Matt
You want to avoid litigation at all costs, but when it's necessary, when something has been stolen, when some mom and dad's assets have been taken, I, I don't like letters. I like to fight, I love litigation. If you want to hire somebody that knows what they're doing, a law firm that's going to back you that has 26, 27 lawyers, you're hiring a team.
12;09;00;04 - 12;09;06;05
Matt
There's no nonsense. There's a lot of wealth involved. Give me a call.
12;09;06;08 - 12;09;23;16
Chris
The best part about my guess is that they're my friends and that I know them personally. And when you get to hear someone like Matt Stein talk about what he's passionate about, and his first answer is, let me try and help you find a solution. But before you have to send me into the court to fight for you, it goes a long way.
12;09;23;16 - 12;09;47;29
Chris
And there's a common theme with my friends. They all come from the same mindset that they really want to do what's best for their friends and their clients. First law Stein Anderson, they can handle inception of establishing, a living trust. They can do trust administration. Matt. Specialty is, you know, his administration, his partners have is a genius who I finally got to meet and talk to when it comes to tax law and high net worth individuals, they're an incredible resource to start with.
12;09;48;06 - 12;09;58;28
Chris
Please reach out to them. For any questions you have or scuba diving tips. I know Matt, he'll do anything you need. And, he's just a great resource, for those families. Matt, thanks for coming on. Was great town. Appreciate it.
12;09;59;00 - 12;10;04;12
Matt
Yeah. Thanks for having me here.
12;10;04;15 - 12;10;05;00
Matt
Okay.