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The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
AIC_Ep31
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[00:00:00]
Liz Herl: Welcome back to Anchored in Chaos. Hi, Liz. Hello, Dr. Caldwell. How are you?
Tim Caldwell: I'm good. And you? Surviving? It's a fall. It's a beautiful fall day out. Yes, it's
Liz Herl: actually, and the weather is turning quite nicely.
Tim Caldwell: It is.
Adolescent Health Concerns
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Liz Herl: So we're gonna dive right in today to something that is predominantly happening in today's society.
And of course I see this in everyday [00:01:00] life, both professional and personal, and it's really looking at adolescent health. We really talked a lot about men and women. Mm-hmm. Adult women. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if we've really covered children very often.
Tim Caldwell: We haven't. And it's easily um, overlooked. Probably the issue I think is that working parents, their children are out of their household six to eight hours a day.
Mm-hmm. And they come from a home where there's little electronic devices.
Impact of Technology on Adolescents
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Tim Caldwell: There's not much television watching, there's not much individual phone carrying, but when they go to school, we don't know what they're subject to.
Liz Herl: Right. And unfortunately there's a very rare to what you're talking about there about device time.
Right. And it's rare, inundated with that. And I wanna talk a little bit about how. That adolescents are struggling with our hyperconnected world, how chaotic that is for them. Yes. The grip of social media and the validator factors there that [00:02:00] are really, really unhealthy bullying aspects at school.
Absolutely. Sometimes. Sometimes at home. And the impact of dysfunctionalism in your family? Mm-hmm. Like that. It's hard. I always tell everyone there's no perfect family out there. It's not saying, you know, I don't like calling my family dysfunctional. Dysfunctional. Well, you know, you don't have to title it that, but the mismanagement or misunderstandings or miscommunications I could highlight in different ways.
If you would feel that about
Tim Caldwell: that. That didn't affect it. We've just become so unaware. When you and I go out and eat, we do pre, pre and post-production type stuff. We've made it a habit not to have our devices at the phone or try to minimize 'em. We don't, we don't zero it out, but we've seen lots of people at a table, a family.
Mm-hmm. And entire family. They've never spoken a word. Mm-hmm. They say, and everybody's on their devices that side, they're all on their devices.
Parental Challenges and Expectations
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Liz Herl: Well, and alongside with what young people are trying to, to deal with you also, I give compassion to parents trying to navigate the landscape and of what their church.
[00:03:00] They're through and like they're going through for their, for their children and for their own lives. Mm-hmm. And I think that is something we all get caught up in. As adults, we have adult brains. Mm-hmm. Ideally. Mm-hmm. I will put ideally out there. Ideally. Yeah. And we have our stressors and what needs to be done and what needs to be done and what timeframe.
And we have expectations that when we're giving those assignments to our children to follow through, you know, clean your room, do your homework, do the things like that's just the rules of the day. And we don't necessarily kind of consider what may have gone on in their day.
Tim Caldwell: Right.
Liz Herl: And it's not intentional disconnection.
You are overwhelmed. We live in an overwhelmed society, demands all the time. And this constant pressure that they may be receiving to complete a task or do something Sure. Overwhelms them. And you're like, it's not that big a deal. All you have to do is this, whatever it is.
Tim Caldwell: Well, and for them
Liz Herl: it might be a very big deal.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Generational Differences and Device Usage
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Tim Caldwell: Well, we talk about the generational differences between. People your age, [00:04:00] my age let's gener, let's separate it all by 10 to 15 years. people my age are not as comfortable with devices, people who are younger or brought up in it. Mm-hmm. It's almost like, they just took right to swimming with this device.
But it doesn't mean that we, they're all comfortable with it. There's a bit of abstraction when you're with the phone, with your devices and that there's no tangible lesson. And not to get too murky about the whole thing, but we have no idea what level of. Anxiety goes in a person, a young person's mind.
Liz Herl: Well, and this would be another segue to this at a different time, and we would definitely go into what we're finding in research and the dopamine hits from these devices. Yes. That is becoming addictive. Yes. For both children, you know, adults and anyone, any individuals really suffering from that type of engagement because we're beginning to rely on it.
More importantly, our brains are
Tim Caldwell: unquestionably an unhealthy environment.
Liz Herl: 100%.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Mental Health and Social Media
---
Liz Herl: Looking at some statistics [00:05:00] and just understanding where we're at. There's rising rates of depression mm-hmm. Across the board.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But more significantly in young adults and teenagers and young adolescents.
We've all probably seen the disheartening, you know, I would say social media post of young people that have taken their lives and unfortunately, very sadly, mm-hmm. A young person had recently taking their lives in using. Social well chat. GBT actually chatt.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And
Tim Caldwell: there's lots of lawsuits Yeah. Around, around the um, AI industry now.
And it, it's exposure to young people.
Liz Herl: Yeah. sometimes when we're going off data it's always, in my opinion, can be I don't know, I don't wanna say skewed is the word, because I think you can have one report and then another report out to another report. Sure.
But right now we're gonna look at what we're seeing and Sure.
Tim Caldwell: We, we need to, yeah. And again, ours is just a discussion. It's certainly not scientific. If you want to take everything, well, there are
Liz Herl: some statistics that are scientifically driven. These [00:06:00] are DA data and statistics from that. And it should be alarming to some because.
It's not, this isn't like a fear, like, oh, you should be alarmed, it should be awareness. Mm-hmm. Like, so when, when I was getting ready to say is one in three individuals, young teenagers are reporting significant areas of sadness. Yeah. Not necessarily into the level of depression.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: But what happens if that's not identified and assessed and maybe, you know, processed out through potentially a therapeutics, you know, process.
Yeah. Or just needs met at home. Mm-hmm. That develops into depression.
Tim Caldwell: Well, to continue and my thought mine is in research, I can tell you, having done medical research for consortium of docs, first of all, I have to ask what it is. How do you want it spun? Because I can find exactly the same amount of argument pro as a Kuhn.
Mm-hmm. So I need to know what your outcome needs to be. But fairly is how you give them objective pros and cons. And let the listener, reader. The person who's [00:07:00] digesting this information, they need to decide and make a more informed decision. But as far as you and I go, I just tell people, just pretend everything's, we're just some guys walking on the street and take, take what we have to say with a grain of salt, but statistically we know that kids are suffering because of this, because this environment
Liz Herl: and Right.
And there're, alongside with that, I give consideration too, parents are just as challenged and not aware of how to work within this generation of young people. And I have talked to my daughter who's a senior this year, and she and I were talking about, she's like, I wish I lived back in the olden days.
Like you
Tim Caldwell: Oh, nice. That's super
Liz Herl: great. But I, can I get it? It was a little bit simpler. A lot simpler actually.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, I've brought up with my clients. I said I there's quite a generational gap between most of us and that. I know it went, Hey, it would be very nice if somebody at the time would've told us that we're going through the best of [00:08:00] times.
Right? Yeah. That's the, the good old days. Yeah.
Liz Herl: It's a great phrase. I use that from the office where Andy is telling Dwight, I wish someone would've told me this was the good old days. Exactly when it was the good old days, I would've
Tim Caldwell: cherished it for
Liz Herl: Yeah. You just don't realize the dev, you know how things kind of transpire, but yeah, it's a different yeah.
I, I came home like the streetlights. I mean, we, my mom, I drank outta the ho Yeah. I mean, all the things, I mean, I know it sounds, you know, cliche on what they say, but I, I was just retelling my story about when I was 11 years old and I was hit by a car.
Tim Caldwell: Yes,
Liz Herl: yes. And I was just like telling you I had put my pop bottles, like the Coke bottles Yeah.
To go up to the store to get the change, get your
Tim Caldwell: deposit back. Mm-hmm. And go and
Liz Herl: buy some ice cream. But I. And there's a, that's a funny story actually. But anyhow it was a, it was a community. It was something like you, you didn't really think about. Mm-hmm. You just kind of lived in it. But,
Tim Caldwell: but, and now we
Liz Herl: have so much hyperawareness around our safety, which [00:09:00] understandably there our, that's bleeding into our children.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. It, it seems to me, and I don't, I think I can look at it, object objectively. I don't think kids today bring the same type of issues home that we had.
Liz Herl: Oh, no, no. Absolutely. Especially
Tim Caldwell: at the level of stress and drama that they bring home. Mm-hmm. It's kind of hard to, it's a little bit unfathomable that things can get so twisted so quickly.
And how did that happen?
Liz Herl: Like,
Tim Caldwell: how did that
Liz Herl: happen? Well, how we have managed, like we're gonna go into like what are the key stressors that young people are seeing? Yes. What
Tim Caldwell: we recognize and,
Academic Pressures and School Environment
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Liz Herl: and one of them is the academics pressure that's always kind of had hovered over in every generation.
Mm-hmm. Do well in class, get good grades, things like that. Yeah. Now we've gotten extensions of that where and I've gotten irritated about this as a parent. There's a lot of pressure on my children when it comes to testing. For state testing
Tim Caldwell: Yes.
Liz Herl: For their funding. And I understand all the,
Tim Caldwell: from the school side,
Liz Herl: correct.
Tim Caldwell: [00:10:00] Yeah. Mm-hmm. And they're
Liz Herl: like, you need to make sure they eat and they drink. I'm like, shouldn't we make sure we they do this all the time anyways? Yeah. But anyhow, they kind of highlight it during the test testing period. And, but my kids come to me and they're like, mom, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to, and I'm really worried.
And I'm like, it is not that serious. Yeah. Like I understand that they, they receive funding, but do they understand that level of stress that they put on kids is not gonna give them positive outcomes?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. And you know, in theory that was never the idea. The idea was I'm taking these fresh malleable minds.
I'm gonna put 'em into a system that will give them education and go out and live their life. But school now has morphed into nothing more than, rote memorization, regurgitation, and there's not much retention or even understanding for that matter. And we see these young people getting turned out and they're just older blank slates.
Mm-hmm. they really have no values or even interests in mind. And I don't mean to be [00:11:00] too harsh about it, but it's painful to see and encounter young people and they don't even possess the ability to communicate in full sentences. Oh. Don't even get me started.
Or express the acronyms of, or Yeah. Text messaging or to express, their emotions or how they're feeling. No. Without demonstrating those emotions. Right. E Exactly. Yeah. And
Liz Herl: I think that when, that's my side of the house mm-hmm. When I talk about emotional regulation mm-hmm. Like how do we name things and we talk about them.
If you're never identified with that mm-hmm. Then I don't know what you're talking about. Right. In, in other words. So it's just reaction, it's just being reactive.
Social Media and Unrealistic Standards
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Liz Herl: Another key, component here is the way that social media has portrayed young people and those highlighted reels for real.
And the body image in comparison and comparison of my life. And look who's living their best life. Yes. And all the, you know, fairytales, you know, spinning that happens. Yes. And it's I wanna do, I mean, I have it in my home. I know that other listeners probably [00:12:00] have, I wanna do this TikTok trend, or I wanna do this.
Oh my heavens, if I hear anymore about six, seven, it's all the time. And I'm like, I, that means nothing. It's nonsense. It's literally nonsense. And it's just a trend of somebody took a song lyric and made something and now kids are walking around going six, seven all the time, and I'm going to lose my mind.
But it's, but that really gives them so much, which is so concerning around their identity. Another huge component which goes right with social media is sleep deprivation.
Tim Caldwell: Abs. Yes, it is chronic,
Liz Herl: yes, it is chronic with everyone completely. It's chronic with adults. Completely,
Tim Caldwell: completely agree. Completely agree.
It's kind with adults. My side of the house, I can, as you know, Liz, with almost 40 years of training, I can tell when a person's eaten mm-hmm. And rested well enough to train and they don't have to be a well-trained athlete. It especially shows up in a well-trained athlete, but it shows up in everybody's.
Mm-hmm. I can, I can because I don't, not with you 24 7, but when I do see you, I see you [00:13:00] perform well. If one performance is markedly different than the next, I have questions and it won't take me any time to realize as I've done to you many times. Did you have breakfast this morning?
Liz Herl: Yes. You have done the two
Tim Caldwell: because your walk workouts just fall off.
They just fall off the cliff. You got strong. I don't
Liz Herl: understand how, you don't understand the consumption of a Pohto of coffee is breakfast. But anyways, sorry. Listen,
Tim Caldwell: that's not a food and it has to come off the fork. You'll probably figure out it, I can put a fork in it. You'll probably figure out a way to eat coffee with a fork.
But my, my approach towards all that is. Doctors and allopathic medic medicine, a MA, when you walk in to talk about what ails you, they never talk about what you're eating. They don't talk about when you, how you're sleeping, they don't talk about. Mm-hmm. Well, fundamentally on my side of the house, that's very upsetting.
Yeah. It would be fundamentally, I find it fundamentally corrupt to not address that first, but we don't do that. They just don't do that here. Take it's, take the issue you, the shakes and pills at you. It's,
Liz Herl: yeah, well, it's the present presentation of symptoms [00:14:00] provided. Mm-hmm. And not the inquiry. I have spoken with another individual regarding this.
There used to be a more I would say in depth assessment when you would go in. Mm-hmm. They would ask all the other above questions that you're talking about. Mm-hmm. Now it's just treating the symptoms provided. Yes. And not in in depth as to, Hey, what else is going on? Yes. But I don't wanna segue, but so sleep deprivation is a significant It's a, it's just a massive factor. I, I
Tim Caldwell: dare say it's the most critical. I, I, I would dare say it's most critical.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. Yeah. There, I share the reset, refocus of your mind has to shut down and reboot at night. That's correct. So you can start your next day.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I would be very curious. I know a lot of teachers.
Mm-hmm. But their first hour teachers, God, God help 'em. Mm-hmm. God help first. Our
Tim Caldwell: teachers, those monsters that walk through your door in the morning, Ugh.
Liz Herl: Like, I just think, and, and I, I just, well, not monsters.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. They're little grins. They're monsters. They're monsters. They're not fed.
They're hungry, [00:15:00] they're angry, they're tired. They're lonely. They're always, but you know what, they're
Liz Herl: also another factor here is they're grasping at the moment they can have their phone. Oh, sure. They're waiting. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They've been, you know, they're, really, really jonesing for that.
Mm-hmm. Another significant area that I was looking at when I was doing this was the identity and belonging confusion. Mm-hmm. Like that is a significant thing that I see young people of all ages struggling with. Like, I don't know who I am and what I'm supposed to be doing. And I have a lot of people telling me that.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And like, the discovery of self, this is why I always recommend mm-hmm. Therapy. Mm-hmm. Especially for children or adults or everyone in general. And that if they're struggling, it's like for them to be able to discover who they are. And who, that's the biggest thing is like your own identity, not what someone tells you.
Well, that's really hard in today's society.
Tim Caldwell: It is, it is. And I think too, Liz, it's part of the recognition, and not only are they [00:16:00] unaware that they're doing these things, these behaviors and maybe a change in characteristics or even in their own personalities, but we are not really doing much to correct it or to identify it either.
And that's a tough thing. So we have to be more active in our recognition of what we see and more active in preparing and warning these kids of, and we are talking about kids today. Yeah. Specifically it's minds as this over exposure, hyperconnectivity, this need for the latest, the fastest, the funnest, and just scroll.
Right. If you can't live our lives like that
Liz Herl: Now, one thing I wanna give an example of, and this is just kind of calling into perspective for our adult listeners, and parents and caregivers of all types, is understanding a child's bad day. So I wanna give an example of we operate in adult world when we think about us being adults.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And. When our kids come home and say, so and [00:17:00] so made fun of something, my clothing, or said I was ugly or, and it really, it's like, oh, just tell 'em to shut up and like walk it off or, you know.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: You are trying to imply resilience there. Mm-hmm. Like, I know people can be rude, you know, just tell 'em to be quiet.
Yes. And leave you alone. And it's to you as an adult, that's like not a five alarm fire. It's just a kind of a kid being a little bit of a turd, if you will. Yeah. Yeah. But probably shouldn't say that, but anyways. But for your child, they're enduring that every single day. Yeah. And they're hiding, they're trying to avoid that person.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: They don't. And that, and it's hard for parents, and I'll be honest, it's hard for me 'cause in my time I've been known to be a little mouthy, I guess I should say. Hey, hey. Like I, I guess I would say responsive. Like if someone says something to me, I have no issue saying something back. Not necessarily in a way to derive a conflict or, or anger, but just like, I'm not gonna be disrespected.
Right. So as a [00:18:00] person, I'll speak to that disrespect. Right. Children don't have that. You have to build that in. Right. That's exactly right.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: So for you, when you're like, Hey, just tell 'em shut up, leave you alone and back off. They're like, that's fearful for them. They're uncertain. Am I gonna get in trouble by my teachers?
That's right. Yeah. Is this gonna make it 10 times worse? Yeah. And so they just carry all of this, and this is one small, significant thing that then compiles on, okay, then I didn't do well on this test and I don't understand this problem. And then is this person mad at me? And that's just some school pieces that doesn't even go into family life.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And then whatever is going on there, so what you think about your child's bad day? Mm-hmm. I offer you open-minded perspective, a perspective of that, I should say.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And that to you, it may seem small, and I'm not, I'm definitely not a mountain out of a molehill person. I try and squash as much as I can.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But we all have to look at the. Massive amounts of stressors that our children are suffering in.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. New pressures new [00:19:00] times, new pressures, different levels by the way too. And the, the peer pressure. The hazing. The bullying. Mm-hmm. It's as old as time eternal. But I want people to understand that trying to give your kids or your young people in some type of instruction and ability to question those things.
And why does that affect you so much? You need to ask why does that affect you so much? Is it true? Are you a booger head?
Liz Herl: Yeah. Right. You have to ask
Tim Caldwell: yourself, is that true? Mm-hmm. Well, if it's not true, why does it bother you much? Mm-hmm. And, and what? It's always easy. Liz, as you said, as a, from a, an adult, adult point of view to say, just ignore him.
Mm-hmm. Well, sometimes they don't ignore you. That's exactly right. And that's those, you've given them advice. You think they're carrying it out. Maybe they're doing their best, but it's not getting them anywhere. Right. And they're carrying that stress. now we have a kind of a predatorial thing going on.
Mm-hmm. And your little darling [00:20:00] is under and this onslaught of pressure that we can't relate to. Right. Absolutely. And, and probably haven't clearly I identified ever. And my heart goes out to young people when teachers are not social workers.
Liz Herl: No. And what we're calling upon the educational system to do is not correct or fair.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. And I would say that 99.9% of the teachers are doing their best. They
Liz Herl: are absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: Even inner center city teachers and unionized teachers, which I have strong opinion of, they're still trying. Mm-hmm. But it's still up to the parent. It's still, it's still up to the parent. And again, cognize.
And again, that to segue
Liz Herl: too much, but I mean, because we, we did briefly talk about school there.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: But the responsibility, your children are your responsibility. Mm-hmm. They're Not the school's responsibility now, when they're in their care, they are responsible to educate them.
Tim Caldwell: Yes.
Liz Herl: They're 100% responsible for that. Yes. But all of their social needs and their emotional needs and their [00:21:00] structure and their child wearing is your job.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And I get it. It's, It's a lot, but it's still your job. And making sure that, you're aware of that is
Tim Caldwell: crucial.
Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Herl: I do wanna talk about like the social media aspect. I know that we, we talk about that a lot, but it is, I know I'm probably an old fogey when I'm like, I don't
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, you are. Shut it. Okay.
Liz Herl: I don't like social media for our young people. I don't like social media for adults. Amen. And it is so misguided in lies and all it does is spew hate and then spiral hate.
I remember when Facebook came out, oh my God, I'm that old. I remember when Facebook came out and I was like, what is this? Like, this seems foreign and weird and unusual to me, right? If I'm not talking to these people in my life right now, what is the likelihood I wanna connect with them through?
Right. Yeah. Right. But it became a trend, right? Yes. So, I have a, in my Facebook, I have a very, very small, I have very few friends. Yeah. I, maybe, maybe 200 if I'm lucky. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that's [00:22:00] just people at rehearsal really, really, really know me Exactly. To be a part of that. Mm-hmm. And there is areas of connection there.
Like my cousins are on, you know, like some things like that. There are connection pieces. The research shows there's areas of creativity. I think it does give you some ideas, sometimes poor ideas. But the idea of community, social media, community mm-hmm. I, I really mm-hmm. Wish we could utilize that social media community and pull that into face-to-face real life interaction activities, goals.
Yeah. We, you know, we, things
Tim Caldwell: like that. We, and,
Liz Herl: and some too, some do. Don't get me wrong.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. We had this conversation not too long ago. First of all, I remember when Facebook first came out, your friend and everybody, you, not me, only you, thousands of friends. It doesn't take any time at all to start analyzing.
There's only six people who pop up on your feed all the time. So I say. Clear the decks, right? Mm-hmm. If they're not actively part of your life, why would you let them be a voyeur in your home? Mm-hmm. Right? For sure. For sure. Every, you're just sharing everything out [00:23:00] there for the whole world to see. The other aspect of that is the whole point is now that you've opened up this window to all of these quote air quote friends, you're also opening yourself up to all of, you're subject to everything that they have going on in their lives, their opinions, mm-hmm.
Their politics. Mm-hmm. Their, and let's say you put something on social media about somebody being an absolute jerk to you in school, you're gonna get every cross section of advice. You're gonna have. The wackos saying, take this guy out. You're gonna have people telling you to fight him or stand up to him or run away from him,
the spectrum will be broad, but you know what? You need to narrow the focus to what you think your parental units, your mother and father, you follow their advice. Mm-hmm. Because they're the most trusted. they're most vested in your life than anybody else. They want you to do well.
They're protecting you and in your young life, they're all you really [00:24:00] have to go back to.
Liz Herl: Yeah. And I think that's a, a little bit that we're missing too is keeping, like that's a other aspect of social media is keeping our. Are our circle smaller. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And more meaningful than all of this extension that we feel a sense of responsibility to.
And then obligation. And then expectation. And then it spirals from there. And this is what our young people are dealing with in to. So they get connected to social media. And then this is what we see all the time is doomsday scrolling. They're scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. It's mindlessly scrolling.
Mindlessly scrolling. Mm-hmm. As you've a few episodes ago scratching at glass. Mm-hmm. Or animals
Tim Caldwell: scratching at glass
Liz Herl: and the compare and despair. Oh my gosh. Look at that. I wish I had that. And Oh, I don't have that in. I wish I had this. And I don't have that in to, I see the same
Tim Caldwell: thing when I see old people sitting in a casino.
Liz Herl: Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: there's no hope on their face. All there is is the glow, the [00:25:00] machine and the noise and mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And what it is. And with a phone, you're not putting pumping money into it. You're pumping can be all, you're pumping emotions and mm-hmm. And when you're all done, you're exhausted.
Liz Herl: You are, You are mentally, and this is something that I would encourage adults that are listening, take.
Just take a minute on what it is for you when you can be on social media and then you're like, oh my gosh, this is all garbage. You have at least a frontal lobe to process that.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Whereas a child, there's just not developed.
Tim Caldwell: Does not. That's right.
Liz Herl: And so you can be like, oh my gosh, this is awful. I was telling you the other day I was watching a show on Netflix.
I'm like, listen, this is like rotting my soul. I have to stop watching this. Yeah. And I just stopped watching it. Yeah. I was like, this is not good. And you know, I love documentaries, but I was like, this is not working out for me. Yeah. And I just stopped watching it and, but I have the sound mind, the ability, I'm not trying to please anybody or any of that.
Children don't have that built in. So when we're talking about that despair
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And compare apart, that is something that you can relate to as an adult.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: When my kids come to me and say, oh, you know, so and [00:26:00] so has this and that. Now that's another thing I can't relate to. Sometimes I feel bad for my girls because their mom doesn't really relate.
Like, Hey, I wish I had this. I was just kind of grateful for the things.
Tim Caldwell: Right,
Liz Herl: right. But that's the time times are changed. Times have changed. Yeah. I also didn't have all this flowery and bright lighted stuff in front of me. Mm-hmm. Either to be fair to my girls mm-hmm. Is that I didn't have all of this stuff being mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Oh, I saw the newest, you know, cup or the newest, you know, lights or whatever. Yeah. you know, we had a JC Penny catalog.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. I remember. You bet. And that's,
Liz Herl: and or a Sears catalog. And that was very fancy. Mm-hmm. And no one ever ordered anything unless for Sunday clothes. But I'm just saying that that's why we have to have that understanding that there's differences Yeah.
That our kids are facing.
Tim Caldwell: Remember we talked about this too. I don't have. First of all, where is this? This is another, I think, socially engineered thing. What, where is this need for phones? I, I've never understood it. We [00:27:00] grew up without phones. It developed. It just developed. Yeah. But everybody has to phones, so now we have kids in kindergarten with phones.
Why? Mm-hmm. They can walk right to the, if an emergency should happen in the care of the school, they can go right to the office and call home. Correct. There's nothing stopping. Why do you have to have a. An $800 phone. Why does the child be, have to be that connection? And that is, that is the
Liz Herl: pressure question for parents.
But
Tim Caldwell: in that, we talked about that we could pick them up a phone that's a pay by the month. Yep.
Liz Herl: That's what I encourage everybody to do. You get four
Tim Caldwell: contacts. Yes. And there's no social media.
Liz Herl: Yeah, absolutely. You're gonna be the most boring kid, but who cares? Yeah. You know, like, and I wish that would be more normalized.
I know in our society, like, Hey, you're not as different because it's like, listen, my phone does nothing for me. I can call my mom or dad.
Tim Caldwell: I think you and I discussed this. We, we just watched a little blurb, maybe it was social media, maybe it was Facebook or something like that, where kids, is this a new trend to get 'em a landline?
Liz Herl: Yes.
Tim Caldwell: And they have like four or five contacts.
Liz Herl: I'm like, that's not a trend. That's what I grew up with. I'm like,
Tim Caldwell: this is how we grew up. [00:28:00] What the, it's funny that what's was, what is old is new again. Everything comes back around and now these. We see these pictures of dial tone phones.
Liz Herl: Yes. Now, one thing I will kind of counter with you, as much as we've seen that little trend of getting a landline, the other part of that is that you can take care of the phone, but how are you gonna take care of those iPads?
Yeah. 'cause we got, the other thing going on there is, well, let's, they have iPads and phone
Tim Caldwell: takes me right back to the beginning. How I started this is you can do everything to funnel down all of that, boil all that stuff down into fundamental just basics at home. But when they get to school. Mm-hmm. They do everything on a laptop.
I know. Unrestricted in the library. Unrestricted.
Liz Herl: Right. Within reason. They do have some restrictions even,
Tim Caldwell: but you know how smart kids are.
Liz Herl: That's the other part of it, I feel for the schools, because kids are just smart as whip and everybody gets through all these firewalls. Sat school, school board
Tim Caldwell: for eight years.
I always heard reports about kids that could circumvent the blocks. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. It's not that hard. They're [00:29:00] brilliant and it's sad. And they're more,
Liz Herl: they're more adaptive than us. Yeah. Because that's not our timeline. My, both of my girls can do all kinds of cool things on their, with their cameras.
Yeah. And I have no, I I'm like, how'd you do that?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And it's very, it's, it's fun and whatnot, but they're just more equipped in their, that is their generation.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. But I'm not gonna beat the generational thing together more, the, the drum I want to focus on here is the one that can we recognize when our child, a child.
Somebody in our care or in our very close circle is suffering from the, this just onslaught that they do daily. Mm-hmm. Peer pressure phones, hyperconnectivity grades are, are we able to identify these things and what can we do for 'em?
Liz Herl: Well, and that's the other side of this, it's the awareness as adults that our kids are, are suffering in ways that maybe doesn't look like suffering.
It may mm-hmm. The greatest deflector in the human history is, is humor. [00:30:00] Mm-hmm. Is like, I just will make a joke out of it. One of the other parts on here I have is the exposure of inappropriate content and unrealistic beauty standards, and then the TikTok trends that challenge kids to honestly harm themselves.
Mm-hmm. To see who can, you know. Complete the challenge and children have lost their, their lives to that. And young people both by the way, young men and women, like, 'cause apparently young men need to have a six pack and you know, girls need to be whatever. Yeah. You know, physically.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Which is kind of oldest time, but all of this coming in front of you and no matter, and it's hard because parents, it's like, this is not realistic.
Tim Caldwell: It's not only is it not realistic, you will never achieve that. Your body shaming if you're overweight. Mm-hmm. And your body shaming if you are too fit. Mm-hmm. And we incurred this in a recent trip that we took that when we looked around. We got compliments about being fit.
Mm-hmm. Being fit [00:31:00] is kind of an oddity now. Right? If you are fit and you're walking around, people are going, they kind of side eye you. Mm-hmm. And like, what are you doing weirdos? Yeah. Why are you like that? You know, and it's not like I got a great big butterfly tattoo on my face.
It's, I'm fit and it takes a lot of work to get like this, but that societal pressures is the body imaging. Has allowed people to be overweight. Well, the Lizzo thing, right,
Liz Herl: right. Well, and kind of going over to back to the social media aspect, and I think, again, the ability to fake everybody out. I listened to a song the other day and I was laughing because the filtration system for all of, like, I think the Snapchats are funny with the funny looking goofy faces.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But when they put all of these colored eyes and, you know, eyelashes and, and give you flawless skin and all of these unrealistic things like, alright, so I always tell my girls, so that's. I on purpose, I always find the goofiest ones to see my [00:32:00] girls. Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm like, this is just go. 'cause when you start with just your camera mm-hmm.
That's just how you look. God made you that way. Mm-hmm. And then you can be like, wow, I can really, yeah. Doll myself up here. I,
Tim Caldwell: I've seen two different things AI generated. One is the Snapchat faces filter stuff where these beautiful women impose the filter of a woman with downs.
Oh. Have you seen that one? Yes,
Liz Herl: I did. That is so she's cute.
Tim Caldwell: But she has down features and everybody is making these comments about her body and how, what they wanna do to them and all that stuff. That's sick.
Liz Herl: Yeah. It's certainly disgusting.
Tim Caldwell: The other, filter that bothers me too is the one where they.
People who are being body shame for what they look like and they tell them, look, I'm being, I'm shooting all of this through a filter because I don't like the way I look. Yeah. You feel the pressure to make yourself look pretty. Mm-hmm. Just to go out when in reality hey, that's deceptive.
Even it's [00:33:00] deceptive on both sides. You're lying to yourself, you're lying to them, but what exactly are you selling?
Liz Herl: Right. You, you know, obviously you are masquerading around in falsehood
Tim Caldwell: mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: To try and feel like you belong. Mm-hmm. And that's really, a disappointing factor in for young people.
And I think that they're, we're driving young people as well as adults. This goes for both sides of that. To have a 24 7 performance. Mm-hmm. It is a performance. And how mentally exhausting that is because if I, drop a mask or if I drop the curtain Yeah. Or whatever, I'm like, oh my goodness, I'm so tired.
Like Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: We've seen it too, Liz, with the hyper connectivity of Classmates and all of this stuff is the and this today is very much something, you know, that I stand up against. If somebody sends me a message, they expect an immediate response. Yeah. Mm-hmm. I'm not going to do that.
If it's an emergency, you call me and we'll talk about it, but if you, and if
Liz Herl: I don't answer, I'll call you. If, again, if you don't [00:34:00] text somebody
Tim Caldwell: back, they're like, are you mad at me? Mm-hmm. What's the matter? What's the matter? And we've seen this, we've seen this with young people. They sent a message. And they were in a movie or something like that.
Mm-hmm. Sorry, I couldn't get back to, I was in a movie and they berate that person for, they didn't, they didn't.
Liz Herl: I called you three times. Yes. Or I text you four times. I saw that it was red and you didn't respond. That's right. And it's like, I'm sorry. Who do you think you are? Yeah, that's right. And that's something that I encourage people to consider.
Like all the demands of people on you. Yeah. Like you are not that we, we talked about that a few episodes ago. Mm-hmm. Don't make yourself that accessible. Yeah. Like, I'm sorry, I have clearly led you astray. I am not that accessible.
Tim Caldwell: And if you don't remedy that and look, this is an artificial. Urgency. Right.
It, it's not even urgent and all it, it's, it's certainly not emergent. No, no, not at all. So if you expect me to drop everything I'm going to do to respond to you, and, and then you might take your time getting back to me or whatever, that's ridiculous. Mm-hmm. Stop all that. Those are all things [00:35:00] that No, these are all things kids come up against All the time.
All the time. Yeah. Both,
Liz Herl: both adults and children in that factor. Mm-hmm. Is that this unrealistic? It's what we talked about a few episodes ago about kind of, you know, making some pretty good understandings and boundaries with individuals. Mm-hmm. And young people need that too. Like, I am not a bad friend if I don't answer your text message or respond to That's your snaps or do all this nonsense.
That's
Tim Caldwell: right.
Liz Herl: And immediate apology. that gets me hot because when people go into, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to miss your call and I had this going. I'm like, I. Oh, like we've gotta address that. Yeah. I'm not apologizing for any of that. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't want young people to feel like they have to be, you know, falling over themselves for someone else because they wanted to call and say, Hey, I got a pair of red Sneak not sneak Nikes.
Nikes. I got a pair of red Nikes and I wanna tell you about it. I'm like, that is not emergent. Yeah. That is not you. You want an immediate validation of your cool thing. Yeah.
Understanding Gaslighting and Its Impact
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Liz Herl: Yeah. And I'm like, I don't care. Like, well, congratulations for you, [00:36:00] but you berating me for not responding. Yeah. And then expect me to apologize and Yes.
That is gaslighting. Everyone's talking about it. And so maybe you should look at that and say, I'm sorry.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. But
Liz Herl: this is ridiculous.
The Pavlovian Response to Phone Calls
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Tim Caldwell: But I think the tool then for the third party, the parent mentor adult, is that when a kid, every time that phone rings mm-hmm. That it's like Pavlov's dog, they just have to answer it.
Yes. You don't. Right. You don't, there's nothing there. And, quite frankly, if the child goes on, but it's Yep. It's, they're mad at me. Cynthia's gonna, this, I don't care. Yeah. And they're, it takes a while. I mean, you, you have to really get 'em started straight.
Liz Herl: I want to kind of correct something where I heard either, okay, it's not, I don't care.
I'm like, sweetheart, you shouldn't care. Yeah. Like, you shouldn't care. You are doing something fun or you're being in some sort of activity or you are away from your phone and you see, which I think is ridiculous, is like you've got 22 missed calls. I would be like, first off, I would [00:37:00] totally tell friend, do not ever call me that many times.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Right.
Liz Herl: I'm like, unless someone is literally dying or a limb has fallen off or been cut off. Yeah. Right. Don't call me that many times. But children, yet again, they think, oh, I've disappointed someone. I let them down. They needed me. Yeah. And then what they needed me for was to say, Hey, I got this, or Yeah, I just wanted to call and say hi.
Mm-hmm. 22 times. Mm-hmm. so there is some. Addressing that as a parent and as a caregiver, whomever, whatever category you fall in there.
Parental Struggles with Screen Time
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Liz Herl: And I think that we're gonna talk about what, what parents are saying about what the struggle is in, in parenting in the society. Mm-hmm. And when parents say, I feel like I'm losing my child to a screen.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I know that's tough.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Because you are ultimately the one that has to address that.
Tim Caldwell: Yep.
Liz Herl: You gotta be the bad guy. Mm-hmm. You gotta be able to say screen. And I see this in, my professional life and personal life. Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Like
Liz Herl: limiting screen time is a must. It has to happen and you're not a bad guy for [00:38:00] it.
And or you will lose your child to it.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. This is, it's, it's tragic that it, it, it affects all of us, every, every single one of us. Mm-hmm.
The Cost of Technology for Children
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Tim Caldwell: My sons have gone media blackout for months. They slowly come back, but they're. Their interest is far less once they've been away for a while. But breaking that grip, it's a hard one and you almost have to start from day one.
With my sons and I always use them as an example, they wanted phones early and I would ask, who has a phone that you feel? And they would tell me their friend has a phone. Okay. Who pays for that phone? Well, their parents do. Well, I'm not. Mm-hmm. So if you wanna pay, if you want a phone, you can buy a phone.
Do you know how much it costs for monthly coverage? I don't know. When you find out it's 40 or $60. Okay, then just know that that's $700 a month or whatever it is, or a year for, for services. And if it's broken, you have to replace it. And so I try to give them all the negatives to this, this type of thing.
But mostly [00:39:00] it's, there is a cost to all of this. There is always cost. And the cost that you don't really understand is not just monetary. It comes to you. Even the poorest people in the United States mm-hmm. Have phones.
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: Homeless people have phones. Mm-hmm. I understand. And what my, my interest in that is why mm-hmm.
Who is it that you are calling or need to be connected to all the time? Am I anti phone? Kinda,
Liz Herl: yeah. It sounds like it. I'm anti,
The Role of Parents in Setting Boundaries
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Tim Caldwell: I'm anti for young people. Saturated technology. Young.
Liz Herl: Yes. Yeah. I, for young people specifically. Yeah. And, and understanding that that phone is, is it can take away. It can take away your children in ways you're just not aware of.
Yeah. And, just knowing that Yeah. And hearing that, that it is, I wanna say a great what do, what do they call that? I'm trying to think of the word. Think the time thing. Time warp. Time warp. Mm-hmm. But it's being leaned on too much as a babysitter. It's like, I need to really get this done.
Absolutely. And I need to get this done. And it's like, [00:40:00] I gotta make sure that I am being very, very cautious of that
Tim Caldwell: surrogacy. That, and this the surrogacy that you're talking about of we, we see that all the time. It happened long before phones is, as long as my little darling is being quiet, I don't care what they're doing.
Mm-hmm. Well, they're in there eating. Mm-hmm. Or they're not eating. Mm-hmm. Or they're, they're doing some destructive behavior. Well, as long as they're not hurting anything and it's that, that's not true.
Liz Herl: See, that's really funny you say that because. If I was, remember being quiet. My mom's like, Elizabeth, Jay, what are you doing?
Yeah, that's
Tim Caldwell: me. That's, that's me too. I was
Liz Herl: not allowed to be quiet.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Quiet is usually unless I'm doing something, there's a story behind it. I'll tell another time. But there's a story about being you have to know what's going on all the time. Yeah. To be a good parent. And that's part of parenting.
And
Liz Herl: it is part of parenting and it is a stressor. I get it.
Navigating Emotional Baggage and Trauma
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Liz Herl: It's a stressor. It's like, it's, that's the responsibility of children. I don't know what to tell you. That's, but even
Tim Caldwell: after school programs. Or for instance, boy Scouts, girl Scouts, all I grew up with all those things. Boy, BSA Boy, [00:41:00] Scouts of America.
And now the BSA stands for Babysitters of America. Oh. Because same thing at school. I wanna join this group deal. You're outta my hair for two and a half hours, three hours, and I gotta buy a uniform. No big deal. Mm-hmm. What goes on in those Boy Scout things are no longer what used to be the Boy Scout things.
So I open my doors to the even more things, and you can have your phones and you, you get the most ridiculous you get, they're like trophies for doing technology things. Yeah. That's not the real world. It's just not the real world. But again, how do I identify with my young person that comes home and now they're more loof.
Mm-hmm. They don't talk to me in full sentences. They can't talk to me. So
Liz Herl: that's the next thing is, and the emotional, they don't talk to me anymore. And the
Tim Caldwell: emotional. There is emotional baggage with everything that's said and everything that's heard. Right.
Liz Herl: And so it's, that was the next one I was gonna follow up on is my teen or my child doesn't talk to me anymore.
Yeah. And I'm not sure. And, and we have to be [00:42:00] cautious of like, how we, in it sounds challenging in itself, how we address and in try and engage those conversations mm-hmm. Because of whatever's gone on in their day. Mm-hmm. Sometimes being maybe too assertive in your like, no, I really wanna know. I just wanna know what happened.
And they're like, I'm spent emotionally, mentally, physically, whatever. So they don't have the capacity to offer you in that moment. Yeah. And then we hound and hound and hound because we're so worried about them that we're like, I'm now needing my fear and my validation met as you're a parent and you're, and I feel like you're cutting me off, so I'm going to run you into the ground until I get something out of you because I care.
And a child doesn't receive any of it that way. They just see it as another person of demand and requirement and all those things. So, and another common statement is, I'm trying to help, but I don't know how. And that's a really scary thing and I, I have a lot of compassion for parents
Tim Caldwell: mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: In that because it's a wild world.
And I'm obviously, the very first thing is have your kids [00:43:00] talk to either their church leader or a mental health provider with you, without you sometimes, you know. Kids can't formulate their thoughts with a parent in the room. They need another space for that, which is great timing for a therapist to come in and kind of help them navigate what they're feeling.
'cause kids can't articulate the way adults can, again, frontal lobe. They can't, you know, share with you, well this, you know, I was feeling this way, this happened, and then I feel like there's pressures at home and there's pressures at school and everyone's mad at me. It, they don't do that. They kind of, yeah.
Well, this person got mad at me, and then they lean into that one person when there's other factors Yeah. That they need to kind of filter out.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. My, I guess mine and that, Liz, is that there's this dependency that every answer is gonna be. When I scratch that glass, but it's not, no, you, you need to find that generational sage, wisdom, grandma, grandpa.
Mm-hmm. The old man down the street. Even the crazy old war guy who tells you stories. Those guys can relay in [00:44:00] sentences, instances to yours that make yours look silly mm-hmm. In comparison. But if there's no one to give them that, that's all they know. Is that level of exposure, that level of their own self-treatment or diagnosis, or even how they're self medicating.
Mm-hmm. Which is what that is. Sure. And we haven't gotten into medications in themselves, but we need to make sure that we understand that dopamine is a powerful, powerful, life altering neurology altering. Drug.
Liz Herl: Yes, 100%. And that, And it absolutely affects your child's personality. It's the same with
Tim Caldwell: food and driving fast and over hypersexuality.
All, all of those things are the exact same animal. And it's a dopamine rush. And if we don't get ahold of this when kids are young, they're gonna have a problem.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. And parents, there's no fix to that. I mean, there's just addressing it. Other challenges I wanted to talk about what parents are facing in seeing what their children are suffering in is this, they do get into [00:45:00] technology boundaries versus trust.
You don't trust me, you don't care. Mm-hmm. You're trying to be mean to me. And it's a little, again, this is my old school part of me talking, like I think the hierarchy has gotten completely flipped upside down. And the fact that I am your parent and I am doing what is safest and best for you, I don't.
Care that you're upset with me in a way. I'm sorry. This makes you sad or you feel Yeah, I'm not, when we get into a power play of justifying to our child, no, I do trust you and I love you and I'm trying to do what's best for you. And there is, when we get that far into it, a child kind of feels like, Hey, I'm kind of getting the wheel here a little bit.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah, sure. You know what I mean? Yeah. And
Liz Herl: they're not like, well, I can lean into this a little bit more. Mom, can I have 15 more minutes? Can I have 20 more minutes? Can I, well, I guess 15 more minutes, but then I really need you to, I again, there was, I don't think ever in my life I ever heard my mom necessarily request something of me.
Yeah. It was. An understanding. Yes. Not [00:46:00] necessarily demand. Yes. Yes. Like, I really need you to do this. Have you cleaned your room? That's what it is. Yes. Did you do the dishes? Yes. Not Can you do the dishes? It, and I know a lot of times everyone's talking about structural and interaction and structural parenting and Well, children need a softer edge.
Well, that's exactly kind of where we've kind of fallen off the rails on that softer edge. It's, it's, but like I can tell you when I'm very direct with, and my girls know that, I'm like very adamant, like, this is what we're doing. It's kinda like, well, this is what we're doing. You know?
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's,
Liz Herl: it's like, well, this is what we're doing.
Tim Caldwell: Where you're going with all that is very much who's, who's actually running this show here? Who's in charge? Is it, Is it my emotional little. Tweener, or is it mom and dad? And if you are doing everything to placate that little darling so that she won't make a fuss, she isn't unhappy, she's happy, happy, happy.
Or he well, I'm not teaching that, I'm not teaching that person anything about discipline or sacrifice or, you know, you can have what you want later. [00:47:00] You can have it later if you want it. Mm-hmm. But you have to have it now, now, now. Or I'm gonna have some type of emotional commotion that's not good.
Right. It's definitely not good. So in my house, raising to sons and coming from an all military background, which I will, I frequently say is if there's any question in the way that I asked it, I'll ask them to listen again, because that wasn't a question. Right. I like that. I want you to understand that.
If part of your duties have been lined up that you're not living up to, that's the first thing you'll do. And then we're gonna talk about what you want to do.
Liz Herl: So in that direction you just gave there, I think that's really in that tone, in that demeanor is important for children. When you restate, I need you to listen to that again.
That wasn't a question. You're not berating, belittling, screaming, yelling. Mm-hmm. And because that's gonna be very dysregulating for any child.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But when you are able to be [00:48:00] completely coherent and aware of all your faculties and your demeanor and your engagement, that you're able to really, they're, that almost trips kids up.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Like, they're not really mad, but they're not
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Happy. Yeah. You know, it's, it causes. That's where growth comes in. Yeah. It causes them to have that contemplation.
Tim Caldwell: There's not gonna, there's, there's really no lesson learned unless there's an element of shame. I, I was taught that a long, long time ago.
Yeah. But the whole point is, is how big a dose do they get? Most of it is, I want them I've told you, Liz, that the sa, the secret to making really good sales is to just look at everybody as a piece of toast and how do you wanna butter 'em? Right. Well, that doesn't sound manipulative. These, these young people, Hey, if it's for the better and it's done its job without a.
Without upsetting anybody or even the status quo in society, then it's worth it, at least to try. And that is to say, what is it that you don't understand about me asking you to do this and why that's important, important. If you [00:49:00] need to have that discussion,
Liz Herl: I think that's important. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Make, make the discussion.
But once, a person, which includes people who have hired in the past, if you give me the thumbs up and tell me, you know, what you're doing, you're on the hook to be responsible to know what, and if it doesn't happen, I'm coming right to you. Right.
Liz Herl: As you should.
Tim Caldwell: You don't get to blame the phone.
You don't get to Well, right. Little Sally keeps blowing up my phone. I don't care. Gimme your phone. Mm-hmm. Now little Sally is outta your life, so just do your work and then you can go back to little Sally.
Liz Herl: Right. So when parents are feeling that kind of pulled over, putting these boundaries in place with technology, I think that is a reasonable what we just kind of just covered that.
Mm-hmm. Response. Now, a couple of these other things I think are really important. The guilt over not being present. This is for both mothers and fathers. Mm. And that is working multiple jobs, co-parenting,
Tim Caldwell: late night or burnout. You bet.
Liz Herl: And so a lot of families are blended families in your co-parenting with a former partner or you have multiple jobs, you have several, [00:50:00] you've got your work job.
And that's when I say the hats and the roles and that we, that we have of being a, you know, a parent an employee, a caretaker, you know, a bill payer, you know, all the different things that you have to manage in your financial life and then in your everyday life. I mean, it just kind of expands.
And so there's a lot that is being demanded of you as a person and sometimes not being present enough. Did I ask about this? We were actually watching a show and it was a mom got a phone call and wasn't listening to what the kid said. Yeah. And he was going off to bootcamp. Hey
Tim Caldwell: mom, I'm going to Marine bootcamp.
Liz Herl: And she's like, where is this at? Yeah. Are you gonna be home
Tim Caldwell: for supper?
Liz Herl: Pick up skim milk, pick up some
Tim Caldwell: milk on the way home. Yeah. And
Liz Herl: so, and then later she's like, what did he say? Yeah. Where did
Tim Caldwell: he say he was going? And then it
Liz Herl: was like, ah. But it's not intentional disconnection. It's the world that we live in.
Yeah. And also other parts that people have to understand as you're navigating your own unresolved trauma when you're a parent, some things that make you reflect back to your childhood or interactions you had [00:51:00] with a parent or a caregiver. And you're like, I never wanna do that with my child. I know what this feels like.
So you start operating from that unhealed wound, and this is my side in the house. Mm-hmm. And those decision makings are impaired because you're operating from an unhealed part of self and not the person you are today. And understanding that while you're not, that, you know, young little girl that receives some information about whatever that.
Your little girl or your son or whomever is not receiving that same feedback. You have to be able to work on self, which is just another, task oriented thing to have on your list when you're parenting, so you're not unintentionally operating from a different time.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. And as an example is, I've shared this with you, is my, my father was a 36 year command sergeant major.
His job was critical. The interesting thing about being in the military, that's the highest rank you can achieve in the army Marines as a command sergeant major, he knows every person on that base. He knows [00:52:00] where every piece of equipment is. He knows typically the status.
He is an amazing person with amazing responsibilities. Well, the fact is he can't be emotionally caught up in a lot of different things 'cause he has such a responsibility. Mm-hmm. you have to understand why a parent has these responsibilities too, and, and how incredibly I just had this discussion yesterday.
Beautiful. But the characteristics that these people possess adults and the way that they address it to children, their offspring is how they express themselves. My dad was very volatile. Mm-hmm. And then I never really understood that until he explained to me, my job is to send people to war.
Mm-hmm. And make sure that they come home, they gotta pay attention. Mm-hmm. They got, I don't want a bunch of dead people. I want everyone to come home to their family. That's a huge responsibility. As I grew up, I realized that my immediate, if anybody around me I cared for, loved, got hurt, my [00:53:00] immediate response was anger.
Mm-hmm. Why'd you do that? Mm-hmm. Why'd you do that? But where's but where is, where is the right side of my mind going? Are you okay? Right. Right. Mm-hmm. And I've told you. Mm-hmm. I don't, that's really something that I recognized in my life, that my first trigger is this. Mm-hmm. And maybe, maybe if that person, if I had never realized that I probably would've continued to, I would've damaged my relationships with my son because my dad's always mad at me.
Liz Herl: Right. Absolutely. And, and now I'm afraid of
Tim Caldwell: him because if I mess up and he finds out he's gonna be mad at me. I'm mad because I'm scared.
Liz Herl: That's exactly right.
Tim Caldwell: You got hurt because maybe it was something I didn't tell you enough. I didn't train you enough. Right. I didn't warn you enough. I didn't keep you away from it enough.
And that's a double edged sword. It is, absolutely. And if you don't recognize that, and I've explained this just like I've explained to my sons, this is how your grandpa was. I realize I'm like this. And they're like,
Liz Herl: oh yeah. And I, that makes sense. Love. I love that transparency. That makes sense.
And I think that's really important for healing young people and, and young adults [00:54:00] for that matter. It's like, I see, I got some of my traits that and then we made protective layers that have unhealthy traits and engagements mm-hmm. That we didn't intend, but those spiral spiraled from trauma.
And so this is how I respond.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And so being able to, as a parent, make sure that you're kind of taking time for yourself and giving some compassion because. There is nothing more overwhelming than feeling isolated and judged by other parents. Yeah. Right. 'cause you should be having it together. Or why is your kid acting like this?
And you're over there going, I don't know why they're acting like this. You know? And but everyone expects that of you, that your children should fall in mind. Well, reality, no one really expects that. And if they are, they're they're lives.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. This is keeping up with the Jones and Yeah. It's
Liz Herl: like they, everyone, Harper
Tim Caldwell: Valley, PTA, when you walk in there and you can look at every single one, I know that your child is failing.
I know that your child got somebody pregnant. I know that everybody's got, right? Mm-hmm. But we're trying to put on this, we're better than everybody. You're not just like everybody else. Well, what's perfect
Dysfunctional Family Dynamics
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Liz Herl: is that we're going right into the dysfunctional family [00:55:00] dynamics really briefly.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And the first thing that I, that when I was looking at this, your home.
Is your child's and yours mm-hmm. From whenever you grew up, your first mental health environment. Mm. It's your very first one. Mm-hmm. It's the one you learned about emotions, about communication, about response.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: About behaviors. What's, you know, what is your belief system, your moral code, all those things, and.
Also why it matters is that's where you also learn about conflict, neglect, lack of communication.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And then how to manage that or not manage it. Mm-hmm. Whatever it is that a child starts assimilating in that information.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: It is generally 100% heartbreakingly, internalized as self failure.
Mm-hmm. Because your child feels like in some way they are failing themselves or their parent or their siblings or their life in some capacity. I'm a disappointment. I'm a disappointment. Yeah. Right. And that may have not actually been words that they had ever said. It's the deduction of the environment Yes.
That they have made.
Tim Caldwell: Yes.
Liz Herl: [00:56:00] And the common what happens in that, and I can I see this all the time, is parentification is when one child feels like they've have a lot of pressures on them to perform at an adult level. Yeah. They start performing to the best of their ability at that level. Yeah. And a little bit of this has come down, again, I always talk about generationally, but.
Where families used to have, you know, 10 children. Mm-hmm. That's kind of the dynamic, like the oldest would help the youngers. Mm-hmm. Younger siblings and kind of mm-hmm. In that. But at some point they had their, their stepping off moment. Yeah. They went into whatever their life was where it's become problematic when parents put the pressures of my oldest or one of my children is 100% more responsible for their siblings than I am.
Yeah. Right. And cautionary, and I know parents have done this is when they walk in, you were supposed to be watching your brother. Yeah. Yeah. You were supposed to be watching your sister and Yes, probably, but also understand you're having a child, watch a child. Right. So, and [00:57:00] their time and, and being, you know, present and mm-hmm.
Again, we don't wanna go into social media and all that.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Those are some factors that make sure you're understanding when you're like, you should be doing this and you're not. Parentification is a very common one. Emotional suppression or explosive anger. So either we. Don't express our emotion, we just compartmentalize that, let, suck her up and lock it away.
Or, we're very, very responsible. Yeah. Yeah. We're over the top
Tim Caldwell: anger. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And a divorce trauma is significant. Mm-hmm. I see it all the time. And understanding what that looks like for young people. It's a grief and a loss. They lost not only their family, but their dynamic and everything that they knew.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And trying to come to terms with that is in time. I think people have a perception of, well, I'll tell you, I've treated individuals, young adults and older adults said parents divorce decades ago and still not have resolve over that. Mm-hmm. Because there was no acknowledgement around it.
So I think understanding that that is a process that the [00:58:00] expectation that you might be moving forward, your child may not necessarily be in that same mm-hmm. Lane. And then of course lack of safe emotional outlets. I need to know your children need to know that they can have some reactive behavior with you and you're not taking that personal.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: I think that's really important. I have teenage girls, so, well, almost a teenage, two teenage girls. Mm-hmm. And they're very emotionally re responsive sometimes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I, I don't take that personally. I'm just like, it's okay. Like, it's just a moment in time and Yeah. There, you know, I, I don't think that it's me.
Yeah. And I think that when we're like, well, you really hurt my feelings and don't talk to me that way. Generally they have their own, they come around within, Hey mom, I'm really sorry. I shouldn't have got so mad. Yeah. And I'm like, okay, I appreciate that. Well, and then like, we can mini like, versus like, will you really hurt me?
Tim Caldwell: That's really wonderful that you have it now. I wish everybody had those skills. I know my sons have always done pretty well at being. I, I hope that I have [00:59:00] instilled with them a confidence that they can talk to me about anything, anytime, anywhere. Without me being too judgmental.
I will always advise and give them an opinion. But that's only to help. Maybe formulate choices. Their decisions are their own. Mm-hmm. And that's something we have to do too, is that the decisions will be their own. And you know what? They got lots of time ahead because we've made mistakes that we didn't think we were gonna pull out of and we did.
Yep. And some just horrific things that you just think, oh, my whole world is burning down around me. You know what, tomorrow's a different day.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm. Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: It's a different day. And your little, the little demon buddy of yours who's trying to drag you into all of these different mishaps they usually move on because you're not their cup of tea or they can't mold you fast enough, or you're not giving them enough feedback.
So they're gonna find other people to do that too and good for them. Right. They probably were never your friends, friends, [01:00:00] friends, right?
Liz Herl: Sure. So to kind of, wrap up this. Segment or series I should say. Mm-hmm. For parents, I wanna encourage validate without fixing. Mm-hmm. Remember, they have to make a decision that's gonna be hard for them because what if it's wrong?
That's okay. Yeah. You'll figure that part out. Help them
Tim Caldwell: weigh that out. And you, you know, I do pro Kuhn. Mm-hmm. I'll have people, let's pull out a piece of paper. We can do this once, twice, we can do it. Mm-hmm. Today, we can do it next week, whatever. You're gonna put a pro and a Kuhn column. Yep. What if I do this?
If I do this, what good comes from it? If I do this, what bad can come from it? Mm-hmm. You can add to it, it can be silly, it can be serious, but
Liz Herl: at some point you have to make a decision. At list can go on forever. At some point
Tim Caldwell: something's gonna outweigh the other. And if you really are deliberating, it doesn't sound like you really wanna do it anyway.
Right. You're really, if you have to deliberate that much, if
Liz Herl: you're going back and forth on this. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Make sure to listen first, hear what they're saying. Even if it doesn't really resonate for you. And I didn't, I didn't have this as a kid and I didn't know what to do and this didn't bother me and [01:01:00] why does this bother my child?
But it never bothered me because it's not you. And so listen mm-hmm. To what they're saying.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Ask what do you need from me right now? Like, what is, you know, sometimes like, I need you to go away or gimme a few minutes or Okay. But go back in a few minutes and say, Hey, I'm checking in. Just wanting to see where you're at.
But what else? You know, can, can we do? 'cause I know something's, I know something's wrong.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Set. I don't think that this is like set technology agreements and collaboratively. I don't think so. I think you inform, hey, we're gonna be doing something new and this is what it's gonna look like.
Mm-hmm. And most likely you're gonna get a disgruntled response. Mm-hmm. And say, I completely understand it's not your game. Mm-hmm. You're not really up for that and you're not understanding. Mm-hmm. This is not a punishment. Mm-hmm. This is actually for your wellbeing. And I know you can't see that now, but this is what we're gonna be doing.
And I know that kind of goes against the grain for some people. 'cause they're like, well, we came up with a decision together. Your children need to be informed as to what the responsibilities are. [01:02:00] Mm-hmm. Giving them all of the choices to make their brains cannot, you're stressing them out more. Make a decision.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Mine in all things that are tempting. It is to try to demystify something, especially to young minds. So don't touch fire, don't touch the stove, don't touch the boiling water, all that stuff. What I do is I expose them, I expose them to that. Mm-hmm. Okay. That's boiling water. Very hot. Do it at a very early age and that they understand, promote very, very early, very early on this we do not do, it's not that you can't, it's that it will cause you great harm.
Correct. So when we come down to making these things where I say I want them to make an educated decision themselves too. And that is, I don't want you to spend so much time. I'd like you to not spend so much time on this. I'm gonna leave it to you to try to fix. Mm-hmm. To try to pull yourself outta it.
Here's why is if we pull up your phone records, we see, look, oh my gosh. You've got, mm-hmm. You've got the, you know, what is it? 168? 158 hours in a week. You spent [01:03:00] 110 hours. On some type of device. Mm-hmm. Either your laptop, that's a lot. That means you're sleeping a few minutes.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Right?
Mm-hmm. Now,
Tim Caldwell: these are extremes, but what I'm also saying is I look at your phone records. You called the same person 12 times today. Every phone call was 10 minutes long. That's a long time. Mm-hmm. So I want you, we're gonna put you on a diet, right? Right. you need to, and I'm gonna ask you to do that first, but I'm gonna show you, first of all how much, and then we'll compare it.
Let's see if you're getting better at it. And typically, if you give them that kind of challenge, they're usually Okay. We'll try.
Liz Herl: Right. Well, and you're gonna have, some disgruntled responses and when we talk about dopamine addiction here, we're talking about the need for it.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Yeah.
Liz Herl: Meltdown. So it's gonna be, it's gonna be challenging. Mm-hmm. So prepare yourself for that, which is unfortunate. Mm-hmm. One last thing for parents I would like to encourage is.
Encouragement and Therapy for Children
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Liz Herl: You know, there is nothing wrong and I think this is something that parents tend to sometimes struggle with is that getting therapy for your children is not failure.
[01:04:00] It is additional wisdom.
Tim Caldwell: That's right. It's
Liz Herl: additional techniques and styles and understandings. That's right. And someone outside your family dynamic that might be able to offer a different perspective.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. Right.
Liz Herl: And give you encouragement. I mean I ideally therapists are there to encourage parents and adults alike and saying, Hey, this is a tough, tough deal.
And let's see what we can do to maybe resolve some of that.
Tim Caldwell: You know how important I think that is Liz, is because in my athletic career, I sought a, I saw a counselor and I saw a counselor because I was now, I was beginning to have a performance anxiety. And there comes a part when you are especially bodybuilding or strength or anything like that, you have to perform.
I ring the bell and you have to put on a show. Well, there comes a point where it's like, oh my God, I'm tired of being it's monkey on a leash that every time he rings a bell. And I know that that's silly, but even as an adult, that's not adult level stress. Can you imagine what it's like for a kid?
Liz Herl: Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: You have and, and remind it. Is [01:05:00] performance anxiety a reminder if these little darlings that live out in the country,
Liz Herl: keep calling 'em darlings.
Tim Caldwell: I know they're monsters anyway. They're these little, these little monsters, they're not stomped darlings. If they live out in the country, they may have a one hour bus ride.
Mm-hmm. Okay. So they're up an hour earlier than everybody. Maybe they're not eating. Yep. So they could be up at five and not in bed till 10 30. Mm-hmm. That's a long damn day for a little, little body. Mm-hmm. So my point is about all that is. We have to do the best we can to protect them against that stuff.
Absolutely. Now they wanna take on sports. Okay. Now, normally where you would be home around 60 with this, now you're at practice till eight. Mm-hmm. Now I'm not eating till nine and now I'm not in bed till 11. Mm-hmm. That rings you out.
Liz Herl: Oh. Especially children.
Tim Caldwell: There has to be a point, and I've always told my son, sports will always be second.
It's not about grades. It's your ability to handle all this. And if you can't handle it, we're not gonna do it. Absolutely. [01:06:00] Because it's an elective, but everybody says, I gotta play football, I gotta be, no, you can't.
Liz Herl: Right. So for teens mm-hmm. And for young people and this kind of goes into tweens and younger individuals, you are not your thoughts.
Your thoughts are things that come into your mind around and you're not necessarily your experiences. How someone. Tells you what you are, you are not what someone tells you that you are. And social media is a highlight reel. And what I mean by that, if there's young people that hear that it's a highlight of falsehoods and fairy tales and you know, just the untruths.
Yeah. You know, and it seems really alluring and something that you're maybe trying to drive yourself for and be cautious. 'cause it is not real. And I know that sounds, especially in the world of AI now, I mean, it's really not real.
Tim Caldwell: You know, how many ai, generated female. personalities are out there now.
Oh yeah. They have their own line of, [01:07:00] absolutely. And there's the, there're these gorgeous women and they're bikinis and they're perfect little bodies and they're perfect little things. Mm-hmm. Well, people are gonna look at that and go, well, I, that's beautiful and you got guys loving it and all that stuff.
They're not real. They're not real. Also the point about things not being real is that this pressure to perform, it's not real either. I call it fake book. When you see people posting, for instance, went to a Garth Brooks contest, had a great time, hung out with all these hotties and all that stuff.
Kay. I know where you live. I know what you drive. Yeah. Right. But I see influencers this is me and my Lambo. Yeah. You saw, you took a picture of a Lamborghini in Las Vegas. You drive a Vega. Mm-hmm. Right? You're broke as sin, but you put on some bling and some cologne and now you're, it's all performance.
It's all performance. It's all performance. So that's, it's ridiculous.
Liz Herl: Be cautious. And one other thing for young people that may be listening is I would hope that you could find one adult in your life and let them be your [01:08:00] lifeline.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Let
Liz Herl: them be the person that you would call and let them know that they are that person too, that you trust.
It doesn't, it doesn't necessarily have to
Tim Caldwell: be your parent. It really is nice. No, yeah. It, it doesn't, it would be lovely if you could be, it'd be great if it was your grandparent, but in reality,
Liz Herl: it's not always that.
Tim Caldwell: Sometimes you just, you just have a kinship with somebody who is older, who's maybe not you, you trust that person implicitly.
Right, right. They're kind and. They, they have all of those attributes maybe that appeal to you, but they're also strong and wise and even handed and Sure. Yeah. I wish that on everyone
Liz Herl: and in general for everybody do your own mental health check-in, seeing if you need to evaluate how you're managing this chaotic life and trying to find the anchor within yourself.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Eat, sleep, and talk or like the basic things. Yeah. Like you should eat, sleep and talk to other people Yeah. And not be on social media. Yeah. And just take care of yourselves is overall my, yeah. My hope for everyone. And I hope this gives some insight. I mean, this is, like this would [01:09:00] easily be a segue into other conversations that we will have because this is a constant
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Evolution in our society.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. I've seen Tony Robbins speak three times. He has something kind of famous. I think it's, I think it's pretty much attributed to him, is that the quality of our life is only as good as the quality of our communication. Oh yeah. Ab Absolutely true. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. We are only as good as our ability to describe, understand, and repeat that back to other people in ways that require detailed communication.
And that is, what do you see? What do you think? What do you know? What can I do? How can I change it? Is it good? Is it bad? But all of this, you have the opportunity to talk about that with anyone. Mm-hmm. But somebody you trust, right. Somebody you admire. Not a badie. Not, not the drug kingpin, not the somebody who's gonna make you have a good life.
And these young people, they're really starving for that. I've, I'm of [01:10:00] the opinion that we lost all of our heroes two generations ago. Well, we gotta
Liz Herl: make.
Tim Caldwell: I know we do gotta make some And they can be, they can be heroes too.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Good topic. Good topic. Well, thank you all for listening and we always ask that you go over to our social media avenues of anchored and chaos.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Dot org in genuine effort llc.com. You'll find more information about both of us there. Mm-hmm. You can go to our Instagram pages mm-hmm. And like us, follow us and do the things let you do.
Tim Caldwell: That's right.
Liz Herl: Even though we are kind of bad talking social media, we still have to. Yeah. Well anyway,
Tim Caldwell: it's there's we still have to use it.
Highs, highs and lows. we've gotten away from the video more into the audio. Mm-hmm. But when things take off or we can afford it a little bit more, we might go back to videos. It was fun. It's a bit more work and a bit more cost for sure. I kinda like that.
Liz Herl: I'm totally sitting here in my gym place.
That's right. We're just here. Our gym clothes.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Didn't even have to comb our hair. Thanks, Liz. I appreciate it. Bye guys. Thanks
Liz Herl: everyone. Take care of yourselves. [01:11:00]