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Join Wendy Coulter and marketing strategist Hanna Jernigan as they sit down with Jackie Woodward, a seasoned CMO with experience at McDonald's, MillerCoors, General Mills, Krispy Kreme, and Bojangles. Discover Jackie's expert insights on branding, including the power of small innovations, the revitalization of iconic brands, and the role of media investment in driving growth. Learn about transformative campaigns like McDonald's 'I'm Lovin' It' and Miller Lite's introduction of the aluminum bottle. Jackie also shares her journey and passion for the Olympics, her experiences with Russian adoption, and the importance of curiosity and understanding consumer behavior to stay relevant in an ever-changing market.
00:00 Unlocking the Hidden Power of Brands
00:53 Introducing Hanna Jernigan and Jackie Woodward
01:23 Jackie's Impressive Background and the World University Games
02:54 The Hummingbird Effect in Branding
03:27 Fun Facts About Jackie Woodward
05:19 Jackie's Current Ventures and Executive Coaching
09:20 Revitalizing Bojangles' Visual Identity
16:50 The Importance of Innovation in Branding
24:07 Consultant's Perspective on CFO Pushback
24:38 The Power of Immediate Retail Impact
25:27 Digital Attribution and Data-Driven CFOs
27:10 Marketing Mix Models and Econometric Modeling
27:52 The Cultural Impact of Marketing: McDonald's Case Study
30:52 Global Marketing and Franchisee Engagement
33:46 McDonald's Nostalgia Marketing Strategy
37:53 Curiosity and Market Trends in Marketing
41:26 Balancing Innovation and Brand Identity
44:35 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Creators & Guests
Host
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
Wendy: Hi, I'm Wendy Coulter and I help CEOs [00:00:30] and marketing leaders unlock the hidden power of their brands. For years, business leaders have focused on marketing tactics, but what truly matters is building a strong brand.
Think of it like the Hummingbird Effect. Small innovations in branding can [00:00:45] lead to surprisingly big results, increased valuation, stronger culture, and a marketing message that really resonates. I have hummingbirds marketing strategist Hannah Jernigan joining me today. How are you doing today, Hannah? [00:01:00] I'm doing good.
How are you, Wendy? I am great. I am great. It's a chilly morning in Kerry, North Carolina, so It is. It's the
Hanna: first day it didn't get warm.
Wendy: I know, but it's still really pretty. So love the sunshine. so we've got an [00:01:15] exciting guest today. Are you excited to I am.
Hanna: I'm very excited to talk with Jackie and.
Learn more from her. Well, tell us about Jackie. Yeah, so today we're gonna dive into the world of branding and I'm thrilled to have with us Jackie Woodward, a [00:01:30] growth oriented chief marketing officer whose career has been. Defined by business transformations and creating consumer relevance from launching.
I'm loving it as part of the turnaround team at McDonald's to stent managing media, [00:01:45] business affairs, and digital growth at MillerCoors General Mills. And then as Global Chief Marketing Officer at Krispy Kreme Donuts and at Bojangles, Jackie is known for her unique skillset combining classic strategic [00:02:00] brand building with driving brands into the digital age.
Wendy: Such an impressive background. It's Jackie. So, and we just connected with Jackie recently through our work on the 2029 World University games. [00:02:15] Uh, the World University games are coming to North Carolina. It's a super exciting time. We're expecting like 600,000 spectators in the seats for these games.
That are second only to the Olympics in the world, which is just [00:02:30] amazing that this is happening in North Carolina. And so we're really excited to work with Jackie on this tremendous project. And as I've gotten to know her, I thought she would be such a great guest I have on the show because of her amazing background [00:02:45] with consumer products and marketing and branding in general.
So. I'm really happy to have Jackie on today.
Hanna: Yeah. I'm really excited to talk to you, Jackie. And as usual for everyone, we're gonna chat with Jackie about how she's seen the Hummingbird [00:03:00] effect in action and how it's seemingly small innovations have led her to big wins.
Wendy: Okay, let's get started. Jackie, welcome to the show.
Jackie Woodward: Well, thanks for having me. It's great to be with you all today. I'm coming [00:03:15] from my home and and office in Pinehurst, North Carolina, where it's also a beautiful fall day, so a good day to talk branding and marketing and, and growth opportunities.
Wendy: Awesome. Well, before we get started, tell us [00:03:30] a couple of fun facts about Jackie.
Jackie Woodward: Oh gosh. Well I, you know, as you say, stated, my career has been all about fun food. So whether that's burgers or beer or donuts or [00:03:45] fried chicken and biscuits, the best biscuits ever at Bojangles. But,
Wendy: absolutely.
Jackie Woodward: You know, as a result of that, I've, I've had the opportunity to work with a lot of celebrities and a lot of sports events, which is why I'm involved with the World University Games [00:04:00] today.
I directed eight Olympics and four World Cups for McDonald's. In the, from the mid nineties to the mid two thousands. And and I'm a, I'm a super fan of the Olympics, so so that's [00:04:15] one of the things from a, a fun fact perspective. Like I said, as a result, working with a lot of athletes and celebrities and some great stories, some not so great stories.
But, uh, maybe we can get into that a little bit later on the personal [00:04:30] side. I do live in Pinehurst after many, many years in the Chicago area. I have one daughter. Who's 27 years old and, uh, soon to be 28. And she was born in Russia. My husband and [00:04:45] I adopted her at the age of one. And so she's been a part of our, our lives now for 26, going on 27 years.
But she's an All American girl. So recently married. But, uh, uh, [00:05:00] Russian adoption has been a, a passion point of ours, sadly. Putin shut it all down a couple of decades ago, but was a big part of our lives as she was growing up.
Wendy: Wow. That is a great fun [00:05:15] fact that even I didn't know. Thank you so much for sharing. Love that. So tell us what you're doing today in the world of marketing, because I know you're not with a big fun food brand right now but maybe you're helping [00:05:30] some, tell us what you're
Jackie Woodward: I, I do have one food, fun food brand that I am helping right now, but yeah, I left Corporate America about a year ago. So I'm, as you, as you noted in in the bio, I'm, I'm kind of a transformation and turnaround [00:05:45] artist ever since the launch of I'm Loving It at McDonald's in 2003 is when I really learned that I love these sticky, challenging, messy situations and have thrown myself into them.
[00:06:00] So, after a good four and a half year run at Bojangles, where frankly the things that I was brought in to do were, were largely done. I decided it was time. I get bored easily, Wendy, so I decided it was time for me to, to strike out on [00:06:15] my own and really do the kind of transformation work that I love to do because that's, that's where my, my sweet spot is, and that's where I think I can really help brands the most is to get to, is to get to growth or to use their growth.
And, [00:06:30] uh, and turbocharge it on steroids. I also though decided that that might not give me all of the passion that I have for, uh, developing people and developing [00:06:45] teams and really getting teams, uh, and partners like agencies to work together to really, I like to say one plus one equals three. And so I also decided to become certified as an executive coach, so I'm just [00:07:00] about done with that.
I should be by the end of the year. I took a course at NC State a year ago called Leadership Coaching for Organizational Performance. And so I now have consulting or interim leadership clients from a. [00:07:15] Growth strategy, brand marketing perspective, and I also have some clients who I'm coaching to. So it really gives me that ability to be able to help people figure out what it is they want to do with their lives and unlock their own growth potential.
[00:07:30] So growing brands, growing people, growing cultures, and bring it all together. Is what, uh, is what Jackie Woodward Inc is all about. Now, I call my business brand culture grow, and the reason why I call it brand culture grow is [00:07:45] because I believe that strong brands and strong cultures are what lead to growth.
Wendy: I don't know too many people in the marketing world or in the coaching world who don't get bored quickly, and so I think [00:08:00] you've got the perfect personality for both of those worlds. So let's jump in and I wanna learn from you a specific instance where you saw a seemingly small change in a marketing or branding strategy lead to a [00:08:15] significant and positive outcome or result for a business, maybe in another area other than marketing.
That's what a Hummingbird effect is all about. So tell us
Jackie Woodward: Yeah, I know. I was, I was, I'm really intrigued by the question because 'cause [00:08:30] I, I like to do big things. In fact, I, I love quotes. I have a whiteboard in my office here and it's filled with some of my favorite quotes. And one of them is from Daniel Burnham. Who built, uh, central Park [00:08:45] in New York.
He was a landscape architect who built, built Central Park in New York and and Grant Park in Chicago. And he said, make no small plans for, they have no magic to stearmans souls. But to your point, so [00:09:00] as I started thinking about the question, I realized. Those big things come from many small things that add up.
And so and so I wanna talk a little bit about one [00:09:15] specific piece that I think your marketers will really love, and that's about graphic design. So, uh, I was Chief Marketing Officer, as you noted, at at Krispy Kreme Donut Corporation and at Bojangles Restaurants, both great, [00:09:30] longstanding, legendary North Carolina brands.
And can you tell, I love my adopted home state of
North Carolina. I. Um, and, uh, and bo both of them were brands that had frankly gotten a little tired and lost a little relevance with [00:09:45] consumers. And that is, that is where I come in. That, that, like I said, that's the kind of work I love to do. And with both of them, it really started with their visual identity.
And so neither of them had really done much [00:10:00] to update what they looked like and how they showed up in the marketplace. And in both instances, because these brands, as I'm sure your audience knows, have, have been around for a long time. They are beloved [00:10:15] brands. You know, you, you, you have to be really careful about taking what made them famous in the first place.
And bringing it forward for a modern consumer in today's times, you take it too far and, and [00:10:30] you're, you're going to lose what made it famous in the first place. So, you know, at Bojangles, I, I I, I always like to go back to the founders. So at Bojangles, the founders or a couple of men in the mid seventies [00:10:45] who were working at other quick service restaurant concepts, and they had an idea for fresh.
Fast food made from scratch, very flavorful, and neither of their concepts wanted to do it. So they, so they left [00:11:00] and started their own business, what they called Bojangles. Jack Folk who was one of them I never met, but I did a lot of research about he died maybe 10, 15 years ago. I did a lot of research, a lot of people at Bojangles knew [00:11:15] Jack because he hasn't, you know, been gone for that long.
And so I learned he was kind of a character. And one of the things I learned about him was that the Bojangles logo, so those of you who are in Bojangles [00:11:30] territory, you know that logo kind of bounces around a little bit. He called them the dancing letters.
Wendy: Oh
Jackie Woodward: And so as we worked to shape the visual identity of the Bojangles brand, [00:11:45] we just knew it was so important to keep the personality of those dancing letters.
And so, you know, I can even say when we, we did some consumer focus groups as we were starting to get the design work. [00:12:00] You know, into the shape that we wanted it to be. And I actually had a consumer in a focus group, say she, she didn't say dancing letters. She didn't know Jack folk, but she, we did show some other logos, you know, for [00:12:15] comparison.
And she actually, she used her hands just like I am. And she said, you know, those logos, those are all corporate, they're, they're very flat and they, they, they're straight. And, you know, I don't really care what Bojangles does with their [00:12:30] logo as long as they don't lose the, the movement, the, the, the way that those letters move.
And I mean, we just looked at one another and we were like, it's Jack's dancing letters. So it may seem like a [00:12:45] really small thing that, that, that movement is there. I don't know if you or any of your audience has ever even noticed it. But it mattered, and it certainly mattered in a way that [00:13:00] resonated with consumers.
And that was a, a reflection of, and respectful of where the founders intended for the brand to be in the first place. So we just had to be really careful when we revitalized and [00:13:15] reinvigorated that brand that we made sure we kept Jack's dancing letters.
Wendy: Well, and I love that such a detail of a logo. Made that big of an impact to someone who [00:13:30] may or may not have been in the industry, but certainly noticed it. Right. I think as designers, uh, 'cause I'm one as from my background, I think we always wonder if those nuanced details that we have come up with, [00:13:45] if anyone's ever gonna notice.
And so that's fabulous that it resonated so well with a consumer like that.
Jackie Woodward: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And if you think about, I mean it, so it is a, and and it was interesting and like I said, it [00:14:00] really, all these little things are what ladder up to the big things. You know, that brand, the founders intended it to stand for, the attention to detail that homemade scratch made food entailed.
And so, you [00:14:15] know, there's 49 steps to making a Bojangles biscuit. And every single one of them has to be followed. you think about a big bow box, I wish I had one here, but you all know big bow boxes, right? For
tailgates. If you, if you look at the [00:14:30] top, you know one of the really critical things about that box is it truly is a meal in a box with all of your chicken, all of your fixins, your biscuits, and the tea.
And if you look at that box, there's a little perforated area where the, the [00:14:45] tea, because the box is not tall enough for the gallon of tea, so there is a little perforated place for the, the tea to be able to poke its little, neck out of the box. And around it it says it holds [00:15:00] tea. And so those tiny little details are all really an embodiment of.
A brand that cares about its food, that crafts its food from hand. That has, you know, people in the, in the [00:15:15] kitchen who are bakers, who love making biscuits every day. And so that level of love and care and attention to detail, all those little tiny, small things really turn into a brand that, particularly in the [00:15:30] Carolinas, I mean, it's, it's who, it's who we are.
It's what we stand for. Right.
Wendy: Now I've got someone from North Carolina born and bred sitting next to me, and Hannah is one of the biggest tailgaters I know. Have you done the bow box?
Hanna: [00:15:45] We have done the bow box, and I'm embarrassed to say that I've wondered what that spot was, and I've never read it to see that It told me the entire time.
So now I'm excited for the next one to go. Get it and really see that That's, that's really cool to learn about.[00:16:00]
Jackie Woodward: Keep it in mind for your next tailgate. Right.
Hanna: Yes.
Wendy: So did you see with the Bojangles brand some innovation, Jackie, like we, we talk about innovation being something [00:16:15] oftentimes that, you know, you're looking to the big picture, but there are these nuances along the way and these processes along the way.
Kind of gets you to this amazing end result. What type of innovations? I mean, I know we always think [00:16:30] about a brand like Bojangles as very homemade and very down to earth and you know, moving its audience, we don't necessarily think about innovation. And if it's not Bojangles, maybe even another brand that you've seen [00:16:45] innovation, really, uh, become a part of a consumer brand, I think that would be really interesting
Jackie Woodward: Well, you know, Steve Jobs wrote the book on innovation. Uh, I really, I've been fortunate enough throughout my career to to work [00:17:00] on some really. Fantastic, fun, interesting brands that consumers care about. But I've also been fortunate to work with some really killer marketers who are excellent at our craft.
[00:17:15] And probably the best boss I ever had was the Chief Marketing officer at Miller Coors, a guy named Andy England. And Andy taught me so much about, about brands and about revitalizing brands [00:17:30] and, and about what makes brands grow. And at the top of his list was innovation. Top of the list one, two, and three was innovation.
Now in that business it could be packaging innovation, it could be product [00:17:45] innovation, it could be, uh, uh, innovation at retail, you know, I mean, beer is not sold except for craft breweries is not sold. Uh uh, brewers are not allowed to sell their own beer. They have to sell it through [00:18:00] distributors, through to retailers.
In fact, the CEO of that company used to say, we have to sell our brand three times. We have to sell it into distributors. We have to sell it into retailers. And only then. Do we get the opportunity to sell it to customers? So [00:18:15] so innovation is, I think Andy's right. Innovation is absolutely crucial to consumer brands in particular, in in staying relevant because today's consumer is looking, is always looking for what's [00:18:30] next and what's new.
And particularly as we get a little bit younger on the scale you know, consumers of the. Gen, generation Z, generation X, millennial generation, now alpha, starting to come along, [00:18:45] you know, are really looking for what's new and what's next. And so I. You know, whether that was, I, one of, one of my favorite innovations was with Miller Light, uh, gosh, now close to [00:19:00] 15 years ago, introduced the aluminum bottle.
So now you see it everywhere. I mean, I, I was at the airport last week. Now Aquafina is at, is is serving, [00:19:15] you know, is selling their water in aluminum. Uh, containers, but Miller Lite did it first and had an exclusive on that capability on that technology for a number of years before it was [00:19:30] released to everybody.
And if you think about you go to a football game, if they're, uh, selling alcoholic beverages, that's what they're selling now is those aluminum bottles. And that, you know, sounds, again, sounds so simple, right? Let's, let's take the aluminum [00:19:45] can and make it a bottle. Yeah. But now it's an industry in and of itself, and it's a package in and of itself, and it's growing the brand in and of itself.
So I think innovation is crucial to brand growth, and I think finding those right [00:20:00] innovations is, uh, is a big part of a marketing leader's job today.
Wendy: I think the the aluminum bottle is the perfect example of a hummingbird effect where, you know, you, you had aluminum, [00:20:15] you know, and then it got brought into packaging in the cans, and then we kind of stuck there for a really, really long time. And then just that little tweak, right? And there's a whole industry affected by it from water to, you [00:20:30] know, all different kinds of of beverages.
And so that's a great, that's a great example of the Hummingbird Effect. I love that one. [00:20:45] [00:21:00] I can you talk to me and, and maybe it's about the aluminum bottle, but maybe it's about something else, about where you've seen. [00:21:15] Something that was implemented that really made an impact and how that was measured, like how would you see that measured in a way when it's that kind of just aha, innovative moment?
I.
Jackie Woodward: Well, I'll tell [00:21:30] you, I, I've been in consumer businesses my whole life and, and many of them, if they're not retail themselves, very much driven by retail, like MillerCoors and General Mills, for example. It's all about sales. At the end of [00:21:45] the day, it's all about driving sales. And so at the end that that's what, that's what we're always measured on.
I like to say it is marketer's job to create demand. I was just on the phone with a client this morning. She's getting some pushback from her [00:22:00] CFO about some of the money that she's spending from a media perspective. She can absolutely show a straight line between this media that she's spending. It's a fairly new brand, and so.
There's, there's no, [00:22:15] you know, ceiling just yet of awareness. So she can draw a straight line between that media and her sales results last week, straight line. And I was like, you, you just have to keep telling your CFO look. Did you like that [00:22:30] 14% of sales that I generated in September? Because if you did, we gotta keep spending a little money on media.
It's working. You know, there's a, a guy named Greg Creed, who was CEO of [00:22:45] Yum Brands for many, many years, and, and very highly regarded in the food marketing industry and the industry in general has a saying, sales overti, sales overnight brand over time. And [00:23:00] like I said, being in so many retail businesses, I mean, you've gotta build the brand.
Of course. Without the brand, you don't have sales overnight, but without sales overnight, you have no money to build a brand. So, you know, it's always, for me, it's always about where the sales. [00:23:15] Now in order to get the sales, innovation is a big part of that. Driving consumer relevance is a big part of that.
But our job is to create demand. And demi creating demand means you're measured in your sales results.
Wendy: [00:23:30] Jackie, you come from a type of marketing where a lot of money is spent on media. Hannah and I have worked on a lot of accounts where it's very hard to convince people to invest in media.
Jackie Woodward: Mm-Hmm
Wendy: [00:23:45] They want to build awareness and they're, and they'll spend a ton of money to build awareness, but they're not reaching the people to pull them in with media.
They're thinking they're just going to come. It's a really, it's a really interesting [00:24:00] dichotomy because they will spend money, but convincing them to spend it on media is. Always interesting. Have you encountered that at all as a consultant? Obviously this woman is getting pushback from her CFO [00:24:15] and that's what we see the most is we'll put a media plan in front of our marketing director and then the CFO will say, well, we don't wanna spend that, but we know that's what's going to bring the direct results that can be measured.[00:24:30]
How would you. Talk about maybe overcoming that kind of objection even in a bigger way from A CFO, like what you're experiencing
Jackie Woodward: Yeah, well, you know CFOs want sales too. So [00:24:45] and, and as you said, a lot of, almost all of my experience has been very retail driven. And so as I told her this morning, one of the things I love about being in retail is because the effect is pretty immediate. You know, I mean, and we're [00:25:00] not talking like long time purchase cycles like washers and dryers and cars.
We're talking, where am I going for lunch today? You know? And so I pretty, pretty impulse. Purchase decisions which have to be influenced by [00:25:15] awareness and by recency. And so that recency effect you, you know, you can't underestimate if you saw an ad this morning, that's why you are making the decision you are to go where you're going to lunch today.
So so [00:25:30] number one is if you can find a way, and with digital, it's, you know. It's becoming easier and easier from an attribution perspective to be able to show where the sales are coming from. Because you can look at click, you can look at clicks, you can look at [00:25:45] website visits, you can look at search results.
And so you know, to be able to show that the media that you're buying is actually driving sales, I think is top of the list because CFOs want sales too. [00:26:00] But I think the second thing is. To be able to share, that, be able to share that attribution. I mean, many CFOs are, are very data driven. So you've got a data-driven audience.
[00:26:15] I mean, internal, there are internal audiences just like their are external audiences. Know your audience. So if you've got an audience, A CFO, who's very data driven, you are gonna convince him with data. So whether that's [00:26:30] attribution, whether that's some, I'm not the hugest fan. I think we have to look at some of what I'll call the the internal or the endemic metrics such as cac, click through rates, you [00:26:45] know, website visits, those kinds of things, those matter less. They're, they're important for us in how we optimize, but they're, they matter less to an audience who's really looking for results. So, you know, to, to stay focused on those results [00:27:00] and be able to show.
That individual, what matters to him or her is is where I think you get some traction. I'm a big fan of marketing mix models, but I also know how expensive they are. [00:27:15] So, you know, you've gotta be a brand that can afford it. But usually, you know, if you can, if you can afford marketing mix modeling that econometric modeling that really, you know, drives attribution for every aspect of the sales curve, whether that's [00:27:30] marketing operations, I mean, in retail businesses, seasonality matters, weather matters.
You know, all of all pricing matters competition matters, all of all of it. If you're able to, to afford the econometric modeling [00:27:45] to bring that forward, it usually answers everybody's questions, but I know it's expensive and it's not for everyone.
Wendy: right. So you've got the word culture in your company name.
Jackie Woodward: I do.
Wendy: I've got that right. [00:28:00] Let's talk about culture a little bit. So obviously marketing helps to drive sales, but talk to me about. If you've seen a marketing activity that had an unexpected consequence on [00:28:15] culture.
Jackie Woodward: Well, that was what the McDonald's launch of I'm Loving. It was all about. It was, and the book's been written about it now, so I can, I can talk about it. It was, it's called Brand [00:28:30] Revitalization by Larry Light. Larry Light was the chief marketing officer of McDonald's at that time from 2002 to 2005. He just died about three months ago.
He was a, he was a rebel marketer. [00:28:45] He was, he was one of the people behind the Pepsi Challenge in the early 1960s. He was at BBDO and brilliant. Uh, I learned a, I learned a lot from him. And, so that time, you know, [00:29:00] McDonald's was not in a good place. And what it really boiled down to, to your point about culture, is that McDonald's didn't believe in itself anymore.
Wendy: Wow.
Jackie Woodward: Franchisees. [00:29:15] Franchisees didn't have faith in the company. They wouldn't sell a Big Mac. They were afraid to sell a Big Mac for full price. Big Mac flagship product. Never put it on [00:29:30] sale. Do y'all remember the days of 99 cent Big Max?
Wendy: Oh yeah.
Jackie Woodward: You would, you should never put your flagship product on sale. That was the only way they could sell Big Mac
Wendy: Wow.
Jackie Woodward: Frontline.
And this, you know, frontline team [00:29:45] members, crew members I mean, they'd lost. They just, they'd lost touch with themselves and they'd lost as a result, they'd lost faith in themselves. And that was true, not just here in the United States, but across the globe. So my role as, [00:30:00] as you noted, you know, there was a team, although, uh, not a large team, but a team who, who really deserved the credit for the turnaround and the launch of, I'm Loving It, spearheaded by Larry.
And the chief, the, the chief operating officer of the [00:30:15] company, a guy named Charlie Bell, an Australian, and, uh, and then Jim Cantaloupe was the CEO, and, uh, Jim and Char. But, but Charlie, Charlie and Larry really led the charge. It was the first time [00:30:30] that all McDonald's countries everywhere ran the same ad campaign.
Here we are 21 years later and they're still running the same ad campaign. I mean, you'll never get those, that mnemonic baba, you'll never get that outta your [00:30:45] mind. And so they're smart to keep at it. I left there in 2006, so I've had nothing to do with those decisions, but I admire them. And and so here's what happened in 2003, my role on that team I was in global marketing, was to go around the globe [00:31:00] and get everybody on board.
And in a very decentralized, system where every country, you know, has its own p and l has its own responsibilities. That was [00:31:15] that was a, a big political effort. My, my old boss at McDonald's used to say, we are 50% marketers and 50% politicians. And that was certainly true there, but what it, what that effort did.
Was galvanize all of these [00:31:30] countries and all of their franchisees and all of their frontline crew members. So think that's probably 750, 800,000 people, across the globe into [00:31:45] getting excited about working at McDonald's again. So we had dance contests in China where they were making up their own, I'm loving it, dances.
We had a, the voice like contest in [00:32:00] Latin America. Every country pitted against one another. We had, incentive programs. I was also running, that was during my Olympics time too. I was also in, in charge of, of the Olympics. So we did, [00:32:15] in, uh, in 2002, leading up to 2003, we did a global contest to come work at the Olympics.
So we had a global workforce at the Salt Lake City Games in 2002. [00:32:30] We actually did that in 98, 2000, 2002, and 2004. That led to a global crew contest, like the voice, a global singing contest with celebrity judges that lasted for. [00:32:45] Many years after 2003, I think they still had that going. I'm not sure exactly the time, but I think they still had that going as much as, you know, five years ago.
That all started with the launch of an ad tagline.[00:33:00]
Wendy: Wow, that's a hummingbird effect. Yeah, that's a hummingbird effect on culture. For sure. For sure. Very cool. So
fast forward.
Jackie Woodward: Big Mac for full price.
Wendy: I [00:33:15] Absolutely. Well, and fast forward that to today. 'cause we're in a, we're in a different world where fast food doesn't seem to be, doesn't seem to be as popular. There's a lot of people watching their diets and the health, the health food side of things.
A lot of natural [00:33:30] foods, a lot of organic. Do you see McDonald's? How do you see them responding to that today? Or how do you. How do you feel like these trends might affect what they need to do? I wanna just kind of hear you [00:33:45] brainstorm a little bit,
Jackie Woodward: Yeah, well, I, so full disclosure, I don't know anyone there anymore. So any thoughts that I would have are strictly my own from observation or from reading about what they're doing. I have a lot of respect for what they're doing [00:34:00] right now. I think they're very, they have smartly tapped into. Mid nineties nostalgia.
So those consumers who were children in the mid nineties had the golden era of Happy Meals. [00:34:15] I ran a portion of that business at one point too. If you think about, you know, all the Disney movies that were Happy meals. If you think about Beanie Babies that were Happy Meals, there was also a time when McDonald's sold DVDs and CDs, uh, [00:34:30] that there was a Backstreet Boys CD that we, uh, that was a, you know, a limited time.
Tchotchke offering. So the kids who grew up with that have very fond memories of those happy meals. And [00:34:45] so they're, they're, they're tapping into that and, and they've been public about it. I mean, I've read several articles about how this nostalgia fueled marketing is really working for them because it's getting.
Those critical consumers who are now having children of their own [00:35:00] to give McDonald's another look. And so, you know, they're, they're, they've got some wacky things going with more adult happy meal kinds of activities that are tapping into popular culture, whatever that might be.
Wendy: That's what I was about to [00:35:15] say. Some of the colabs that they've done recently, I've got a 16-year-old daughter and she notices those all the time. Hannah, do you ever buy those adult meals? I do. At McDonald's. I, I do. The
Hanna: influencer part of it and even the Happy Meals. I think the last one, or [00:35:30] might still be right now, is the Mini Crock.
I've never owned a pair of Crocs, but the fact that I could go get a mini one. I did go the day I saw it, it got me right in. So it is working. We have a mini
Wendy: crock in our house too, I have to admit it. [00:35:45] And
Jackie Woodward: Yeah, so I think they're, I just think they're, I think they're really smart with, because it starts with that insight. And you know, I talked earlier about, I think marketers jobs are, is to create demand. And I [00:36:00] really think that I, I, I preach this to my teams that starts with an insight that, and hopefully that's an insight.
Well, it starts with knowing our customers better than they know themselves and better than our competition knows them. So that [00:36:15] insight into what's really driving consumers behavior, and in this case, McDonald's. Has an insight that is, you know, very, I mean there's nineties TV shows are coming back. Crocs were a nineties that, you know, that there's a lot of nineties [00:36:30] that's really taking hold right now in culture.
So they took that insight. That's step number one is to know our customers better than they know themselves. Really dig into what are the insights. The second one then is to come up with solutions [00:36:45] that will leverage that insight or bring that insight to life. In ways that our customers find interesting, relevant, and in some way contributing to what it is that they need in their lives.
And the final [00:37:00] piece, and you don't get to do one and two without three, the final piece is to execute flawlessly. So I've always said, I'll take a a decent idea. Flawlessly executed [00:37:15] over a brilliant idea, poorly executed. Because the execution is what the consumer sees at the end of the day. They see how it shows up in the marketplace.
So, know, insight, [00:37:30] idea, execution, and that's what makes good marketing.
Wendy: I love that advice for marketers. Jackie, thank you so much for sharing that with us. In today's fast-paced environment [00:37:45] how can companies stay nimble and adaptable enough to capitalize on these types of ideas that you're sharing today?
Jackie Woodward: Well, you know, I'm so glad you asked that question because this is another thing I feel very, very passionately about. [00:38:00] And that is I place a lot of strong emphasis on curiosity. I don't think any of us has all of the best ideas. I don't think any of us has [00:38:15] all of the innovative ideas coming back to what's gonna drive demand, right?
Is innovation. So I, I've always said, you know, don't look here, look out. I, I. I get out into the market. I, I [00:38:30] shop, I go to competition. I wa I, I sit, when I was in the, fast food business, I would sit in a, in a competitor's drive through and watch those cars go through and watch how the, those people engage with those customers.
I'd [00:38:45] sit in our own drive throughs and, you know, I engage with the cons with the crew member and try our products and, you know, watch tv. Watch, get on social media, be get all, uh, I'm on TikTok and Instagram, just [00:39:00] like my, some of my best customers are on TikTok and Instagram, so, you know, really understanding trends, understanding what others are doing.
The McDonald's story we were just talking about is a great example. Of course, I watch what McDonald's is doing [00:39:15] because they're, they're a, a leader in culture. They're a leader in that industry, and they, they're a leader in marketing. And so I think you have to be curious. I. And be interested in other people's ideas [00:39:30] and really, you know, tenaciously and intentionally check, check out what's going on in the world.
Because I don't think any of us had, you know, I'm, I'm the first one to say I don't have all the best ideas. I. But I sure know how to surround myself with [00:39:45] people who do and to be, get out into a market and be able to, to ask around and be curious and, and know interesting people and read and, and, and it makes life more interesting and fun too.
[00:40:00] That's the best part about curiosity.
Wendy: I love that as designers, we are, we're very curious in our shop and as marketers, I think that insight piece is so important. Work. Working with smaller companies, a lot of times [00:40:15] we have to explain what insight means and people's eyes get real big as they realize, like what the impact that can have when they really get insight from clients and customers.
So Hannah, do you have any other [00:40:30] questions for Jackie?
Hanna: Yeah, so this is a unique conversation 'cause we're talking to you and you've had these big brands that have these large customer bases in their. Older and more refined in what they're doing. So a lot of the things that [00:40:45] you've said are having them go back to what it, what already was working and revitalizing that, rethinking it, staying relevant with the customers that they already have.
So what advice can you [00:41:00] give to know when to just stick with what you're doing and to revamp it rather than looking ahead and trying to be too innovative or? Too curious in that regards.
Jackie Woodward: Oh boy. If I had the answer to that, I would be [00:41:15] making a lot more money than I am. Because I think, I think what it really boils down to is intuition and judgment. I'm not sure there's a silver bullet answer to that, Hannah. You know, McDonald's, but, but I can tell you from [00:41:30] experience, anytime McDonald's tried to stray away from being just the best hamburger, fries and coke or shake on the planet, they lost their way.
You know, late nineties, they took, they took a steak in Chipotle, they took a steak in Donatos Pizza. [00:41:45] There was at least one other brand. I, uh, oh, Boston Market. And they lost their focus. So now you get focused back on, be proud of who you are. You know, I mean, be proud of who you are. [00:42:00] And that has been true with every brand that I've touched ever since then, is that, that you have to be proud of who you are, but at the same time, you do have to stay on top of trends.
So I'll give you another good example. When I was at General Mills, [00:42:15] uh, 10 years ago. Dry cereal for breakfast was in decline, probably is still in decline. It's been in decline for some time because people are eating more breakfast on the go. It was actually interesting coming from [00:42:30] restaurants that serve breakfast to go to consumer packaged goods who are trying to sell breakfast as well.
So somebody there, and it wasn't me but somebody there found an insight that a lot [00:42:45] of gamers. We're eating cereal at night during their gaming sessions because it's, it's, it's good for, you know, it's drowning in milk. A lot of cereals [00:43:00] can be very good for you. A lot of 'em can be, you know, just more fun food.
Like Lucky Charms, which was a General Mills product, uh, is a General Mills product, but you've also got Cheerios, you know, so you've got kind of both ends of the spectrum. And so we did a partnership with Twitch. [00:43:15] Do you know Twitch?
It's one of the biggest gaming platforms on the planet. It's owned by Amazon.
Not everybody knows that, but they are. And so that's a great example to me of recognizing an [00:43:30] insight. Again, this is kind of the insight idea execution, right? Is the insight is. People are eating less cereal for breakfast, but they're eating cereal in other day parts. So let's create a partnership with Twitch where we celebrate that [00:43:45] we don't need to hide the fact that gamers are eating cereal.
Let's celebrate the fact that gamers are eating cereal. And then they put together just this wonderful program and platform with some gaming influencers and, and they, they did a whole series of, [00:44:00] of ads and commercials and I mean, it was just, to me that was a great example of. Being both true to who you are.
You're a bowl of cereal, but there's an innovation that says there's a different day part that's enjoying that boil bowl of [00:44:15] cereal. Now, how do we capitalize on that? I hope that gives you a good example, but I
Hanna: It does.
Jackie Woodward: it's intuition, it's judgment, it's insight, and you always have to be who you are.
But finding ways to reinvent that is where [00:44:30] the innovation and, and frankly, where the fun and the relevance comes from too.
Wendy: Thank you so much, Jackie. You've got some awesome stories with some awesome brands, and it's been so pleasurable to spend time with you today and learn [00:44:45] more about your background and these wonderful projects. Thank you so much for giving us your time today.
Jackie Woodward: I appreciate the opportunity to tell some stories. Thank you.
Wendy: Absolutely. Thank you all who are listening as [00:45:00] well for your time today, and we really appreciate you listening and go forth and find your own hummingbird effect. [00:45:15] [00:45:30]