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The Polyfloss team is back with a game-changer: a mini plastic recycling machine small enough for your workshop. Matt reconnects with co-founders Audrey Gaulard, Émile De Visscher, and Christophe Machet to discuss how they're putting plastic recycling directly into people's hands - and why that matters.
Previous Polyfloss interview:
https://stilltbd.fm/episodes/158-fixing-our-plastic-problem-polyfloss-interview/
The Polyfloss team is back with a game-changer: a mini plastic recycling machine small enough for your workshop. Matt reconnects with co-founders Audrey Gaulard, Émile De Visscher, and Christophe Machet to discuss how they're putting plastic recycling directly into people's hands - and why that matters.
Previous Polyfloss interview:
https://stilltbd.fm/episodes/158-fixing-our-plastic-problem-polyfloss-interview/
Follow us on X: @stilltbdfm @byseanferrell @mattferrell or @undecidedmf
Undecided with Matt Ferrell: https://www.youtube.com/undecidedmf
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Creators and Guests
What is Still To Be Determined?
Join Matt Ferrell from the YouTube Channel, Undecided, and his brother Sean Ferrell as they discuss electric vehicles, renewable energy, smart technologies, and how they impact our lives. Still TBD continues the conversation from the Undecided YouTube channel.
Today on Still To Be Determined, we're talking about the plastic recycling problem and a solution that puts the control back into your hands. Also, a bonus feature, we're gonna remind you to floss. That's not really going to be intentional, but when you're done watching this or listening to it, you're gonna think, yeah, I should really up my dental care game.
Hey everybody. Welcome to Still To Be Determined. This is of course the follow-up podcast to Undecided with Matt Ferrell. I'm Sean Ferrell. I'm Matt's older brother. I'm a writer. I write some sci-fi. I write some stuff for kids, and luckily for me to sate my curiosity about technology. My brother, is that Matt from Undecided.
Matt, how are you doing today?
I'm doing really well, Sean. I got, I, this is kind of recurring thing I bring up, but I've been spending a lot of time with AI. Mm-hmm. Like right when you join, when you jumped on the call, I was like, while I was waiting for you, I was like, oh, don't worry. I was chatting with my AI friend.
Yeah. It's, it's, it's trombone of my
heart plays
on. Yeah, but the, the reason I'm loving it is like I am using Claude to help me code automation workflows to make my process easier. 'cause like, it's like a fire hose of just information, like possible topic ideas, looking at how videos are performing and like, you know me, I've got a background 20 years working in the tech industry.
I know, I know a little bit of JavaScript, H-T-M-L-C-S-S, that kind of stuff. But like, I hit a wall at a certain point for what I can do. And Claude is just like unlocking so much stuff. It's like, I can tell it exactly what I want. Spits out all this JavaScript, copy, paste, put it in, boom. Hey, it worked. It's been fantastic.
I love it. I am both impressed and terrified. Basically, I've been doing what the, they've been calling vibe coding, which I hate that phrase, but. I've been vibe coding and it's, it's been fantastic. Is is
it just like you, as you say that I'm thinking of like, it's like jazz, you're just kind of like going with the flow in the way you want it, and its not about you're, you're
riffing with, you're riffing with the AI.
It's like you're just like, here's what I'm trying to do. It's like, here's like the exact flow I'm looking for here, what I need to do, and it's like I'm using this automation engine called N8N. So it's like it has the documentation for that so it knows how to use N8N and so it's like, here's the create this node, paste this information in there and I'll paste it in.
I was like, oh, it's giving this error. I'll just copy the error and give it to Claude. And he goes, oh, I know what caused that. He goes, let me fix this. He goes, paste this in. And so it's like, it's like you're sitting down there with a teammate. You're just kind of going back and forth. It is. It is kinda like jazz.
It's, it's vibe coding. It's kinda fun. I know. Yeah, it's, it's too
much. It's too much. Wild stuff. It's wild. Wild stuff. Yeah. Anyway. Today's episode, we're not gonna be revisiting Matt's most recent like we usually do. Occasionally we have these longer discussions that Matt has had, uh, previously with various researchers about subjects that can get pretty complex in the long discussion. And then Matt boils them down into Undecided videos of his normal 15 minute or so length. But that leaves some of the nuance to the cutting room floor. And so Matt and I started a while back sharing those longer interviews with you here. So today matt's going to share a conversation he had recently with the founders of a company called Polyfloss.
This is not the first time that Matt has talked about them. Matt had a conversation with them about two years ago, and we'll link to that previous podcast in this episode description. Polyfloss developed a machine that can take plastic waste and turn it into fibers for use in things like insulation, textiles, and other uses.
It's effectively inspired by cotton candy. So when you think of what the result of this is, it's creating these sort of nebulous fibery bundles that you can use for different things. Their previous machine was focused on humanitarian efforts effectively, like we're pumping lots of plastic into the world.
What are we gonna do in those places where there's not, or the ability to do municipal level recycling? So these machines were envisioned to help solve that problem at the first stage. The company now has a Kickstarter for a smaller machine, which is targeted at DIYers, makers and schools. So it's basically, as Matt put it, it's a floss of us for the rest of us.
Would that be accurate, Matt? Anyway, Matt had a chance to sit down and talk to the Polyfloss team about the most recent developments and their new mini plastic recycling machine small enough for a workshop. So here without any further preamble, Matt's conversation with co-founders, Audrey Gaulard, Émile De Visscher, and Christophe Machet to discuss how they're putting plastic recycling directly into people's hands and why that matters.
Hi everybody. Thank you again for joining me. It's like been a couple years since we talked about Polyfloss and what you guys are doing with plastic recycling and turning into something new again. There's been a lot that's happened for you guys over the past couple of years, so I was hoping we could kind of jump into like.
What's the biggest change in evolution since we last spoke? 'cause we spoke in, I think it was 2023. Yes. So what, what has changed since 2023 to now for you guys?
Well, uh, yeah, the, a lot has happened in those few years. Uh, the main information is that the machine is gonna be available for all. So the machine has shrinked.
It's now a small desktop machine. We still have the big machine. Don't get me wrong, this is still going, it's still distributed in the world of humanitarian aid. Uh, but we receive so much demand of everyone else as like, why can't I not do it at my scale? Uh, and that's where we, we going into talking and let's do it.
Let's make, let's make the small Polyfloss machine. Now is a good time. So we shrinked That's what happened.
Yeah. Yeah. The the new one, I, I, Chris was just showing me the facility and I saw it on the camera and I also saw the, the photos that you've shared. It's cute. It's, like I said, it's, it's, it's adorable.
So how does the mini machine differ technically from the full scale version that you had before?
So before we had this, we designed a machine to be shipped on a pallet. We try to maximize the throughput on that footprint. So it was about a meter 20 long, uh, and about 10 kilos per hour, which was pretty good for the humanitarian context.
And also I must, I must add that bigger machine was also designed to work on single phase domestic power. So it's very easy to set up, you know, anywhere in the world. But we also for the last few years, uh, got a lot of demands for smaller machine desktop, something that would be easier to operate with some sort of automation and yeah, something essentially simple to operate for, for user.
So we don't necessarily need to to train the people. We don't necessarily need to go there and set up the machine. We made a smaller extruder, smaller machine, uh, with a smaller throughput of course, but also now we have a computer that help, um, you know, set up the different parameters, can give some sort of automation to the user.
So overall, a lot simpler. So the throughput is a bit smaller, but we also realized that, um, a lot of the demands we had, uh, were from people with Fab Labs, laboratories, uh, workshops. You know, people that don't necessarily need, uh, maximum throughput.
Right. That was, that was my biggest question. 'cause I remember the discussion we had before was about, there was a lot of training that was involved.
There's only specific kind of plastics that you should be putting into the machine. Um, I'm assuming the plastic that you have to feed into it hasn't changed. It's the same plastics, but the same
plastic. But we've, we've extended the types of plastic that the machine can transform. Oh, really? Before it was mainly polypropylene and PET and um, now we realize that actually the, the range is much, uh, broader.
We can use, um, PADG um, commonly used in, uh, 3D printing. Yeah, we, we try to experiment with different plastics to, you know, to make this machine more useful to, to your bigger community. The target for this machine is people that are tinkerers, inventors, you know, people that want to try what can be done with the, with the waste plastics and are willing to try things basically.
Right. So it's targeting the maker community, essentially. It's the people that. Like you said, tinker, maybe tinkerers, maybe has lots of 3D printers and are building and fabbing things themselves and have a lot of waste that they can then reuse that exact material again.
Exactly. We also have artists that want to use these fibers to, for their own creation.
We've got textile people very interested by the fibers and you know, transforming into nets or weaves. I think now it, it's a lot broader than just, uh, humanitarian, you know, technical context.
And, and how much plastic waste can the mini version process compared to the full size one?
Yep. So at the moment it's about one kilo per hour because it's quite compact.
You don't need a lot of, uh, plastic to do experiments. Small amounts are fine. Once you found the parameters, then you can produce more. I, I think the bigger picture is people, they might find something interesting to do with it and then potentially they might want a bigger machine at some point to, you know, to go into bigger production.
One of the questions I did have for you guys was, do you have recommendations for people that are gonna want one of these? Like what the first project that they do with it is like, like, do you have suggestions to them as like what they could try to do with the result that comes out?
It really depends on the context. I think. So we mentioned a few, but we have basically three target groups to, to, uh, for this machine. One is, um, fab labs and in this case we, we were, you know, looking at how we can use the fibers in the fab lab context. And, uh, we realized that we can iron them, so we can press them just with a regular iron.
And it makes these sheets of, of, uh, recycled polypropylene. And this can be used in the laser cutter again, uh, in the lasering machine. So it means that we create a loop internally in the FabLab, and then we can create, you know, signage or, or small boxes. I mean, everything that they already do.
You don't need to buy, uh, you know, like, uh, these plastic sheets again. Uh, so this in the context of fab lab made quite a lot of sense. And, and of course we'll share like how to do that and, and all the recipes and how to. Uh, in the context of plastic recycling, so small workshop or initiatives or associations of makers who are already into plastic recycling, like, uh, for example, using, you know, the precious plastic, uh, machine. Um, there, we, they have already quite a lot of knowledge and tools and what we found most interesting was to use, uh, the plastic by pressing it into panels. We've developed a technique where we can have these very rigid but very lightweight panel, a bit like expanded polystyrene.
And so all the fibers are contained. They're structural in a way. They kind of fuse together, but it's still up to six, seven times lighter than the rigid plain, uh, plastic. And so this can be used, uh, for insulation, a bit like expanded polystyrene. Uh, you know, you can make cold boxes or, or heat or to keep heat.
You can make, um, protective, uh, parts for, I dunno, if you wanna protect the camera or these kind of, uh, elements in, in this, in that requires a bit more. Because you need a mold, you need to heat that mold, et cetera. So you need a bit more, um, yeah, also tools and equipments. But, but it makes it, uh, you know, again, like very local, with existing tools, you can, you can do quite a lot.
And then the third one is obviously textiles, in which case, uh, you know, you need to thread it, and then to weave it or knit it. And there we have already, um, some plans and you know, how to work that fibers.
Everything you're talking about. I know the maker community is going to be excited for, I'm, I'm assuming, have, have you, have you talked to people out in the maker community about what you're planning on doing, planning on launching?
Like have you gotten early feedback and response from people at all?
Yeah, of course. I mean, we've, we've reached out to everyone we knew. We'll continue to do it, uh, for the, you know, also medias from the maker community. Yeah, we have, we have lots of questions. Different, you know. Also, for example, one of the question you were mentioning in the beginning, uh, can we use other plastics?
Um, and obviously some other plastic works, but we don't master them yet. So the question is how to make a community can also, you know, participate in, in opening up the possibilities and, um, and create, also share knowledge around the technology. For example, we've had questions about bioplastic and typically we could use bioplastics in that machine.
We can control temperatures and speed. So, um, but that's something we haven't mastered yet. We, we just tried once to see if it by print on principle. It works. Yes, it does. But um, but this could be another breakthrough. It wouldn't be recycling anymore. It would be, you know, making plastic replacement rather than just recycling.
And so this could be things that we develop with the maker community as well.
To me, this feels like a very big shift for you guys because the initial version was very focused on the humanitarian angle, the, uh, plastic recycling angle, and this one feels much more accessible. It feels more like a, like a product makers would just want to have, and it, it less is on, obviously on the humanitarian angle.
What do you think the. But the end goal is still the same. It's still, recycling is still better for the environment. But like, what do you think the impact of this is gonna have on the world versus your first version that you were pushing out?
I think for us it was also democratization of recycling.
That's not, doesn't have to be reserved for an industry in particular or for certain part of the world. Uh, recycling management is a huge resource. Not every country on the planet has it. But also as an individual, we do have the responsibility to do something with extremely hard when you think about it, to do it in the modern world with so much type of plastic that exists, understanding of it.
And if any, some country do the sorting out in the cleaning, they say don't really know what's happening to their waste. This one, in a way, you take control of your waste and you create new free resources from it. You have your own circular economy at your scale without feeling that you have the whole weight of the world on your shoulder.
And, and for us, we're still gonna reach the humanitarian aid on the smaller scale because some communities don't need the big machine. They just need a smaller one at the beginning. And, uh, like the guys say, it will be an entry level if they want to grow their circular economy. So we do love the fact that we can reach to more communities with a smaller machine.
To jump on then I, I, I think it's also a strategic question. You know, we were with this kind of middle-sized machine, which was already costing, you know, 18,000 euros, plus we had training, uh, installation coming there. So all in all, it was quite an expensive, uh, investment, uh, to start with. And, and obviously working in the humanitarian field as a company, we were a company, so it's very difficult.
Everything is extremely slow, dependent on, you know, local, um, events, uh, sometimes, uh, problems or crisis. Uh, so it's very difficult to sustain as a, as a company withIn that context..
You know, we started, uh, getting advice, trying to look for, for other ways to, to work. And they were all, uh, I mean, a lot of people were saying, well, you will never do anything if you stay small. You need very large machine. You need to sell to, you know, massive companies, massive markets. You'll never do anything if you stay small.
But, you know, every time we get the advice, we were thinking, well. I mean, industrial recycling doesn't work. You know it, it's already there. They have all those machines at industrial scale, but still with all the industrial recycling that you can imagine, we are still recycling only 9% of the plastic we, we we produce, which is nothing. Um, so we don't think going bigger is a solution. We think going smaller is a solution because, uh, you know, it's, it's a bit like, um, in, in metal, you know, 90% of metal is recycled. And obviously a, a big part of it comes from industry, but it's also because there are small scale.
In France, like a metal scrub. People who know how to recycle locally, who know how to sort, know how to reuse, and if there's not that level of intervention for plastics, it's never gonna get to the same level of recycling on and a larger scale because they.
And to continue on your, on this topic. Um, still doing the parallel with metal.
The workers, they have tools to transform, um, you know, scrap metal that they may find or buy for low cost. And it's something that doesn't exist in plastic. Um, there's no, there's no small case machine to do to do that. So we, we think that this new machine will address exactly this problem.
Right. It's, it's, it's funny that you're, you're told to go this way and you guys like go, what about that way?
Oh yeah. You're just going the completely opposite direction of what everybody was telling you to do. Well, you always, it makes sense to me because I was gonna say, it kinda makes sense to me though. 'cause it's like you're making, by making a smaller machine, you're making it far more accessible, more affordable, and.
It's the people that are using a lot of this stuff, it's, it's just gonna make it to me. It feels like there's a potential bigger impact you guys will have with a smaller machine than you would with your larger machine. Do, do you think that's gonna be the case?
Yes. I mean, we hope that's the bet we are doing right now.
Uh, yeah. But yes, definitely.
Well, what, what, do you know what the target price is for the, the machine the new one? Is that something you can share?
Yeah, yeah, of course, of course. Audrey or I can, yeah. Yeah. So the, the target price, I mean, we, we really try to design it to cost, because obviously the aim was to become cheaper and more accessible, so target price will be 6,000 euros.
So I guess. Might be due 6, 6, 500, something like that. And for the Kickstarter, we are uh, giving up to 30% discount for the first, the early birds be around 4, 4300, uh, for the first, uh, first batch. Um, and obviously this is something we continue to work on, but it. We still have to, you know, recycle, uh, plastic, be extremely stable and work on the very long run.
That's the, that's the chance that we have is that because we designed a big machine, shipped in very complex spaces with no maintenance, uh, you know, locally or no parts accessible. We have now lots of experience with this machine running for two, three years and, uh, and improving, you know, the, the parts and uh, and, and making sure it works on the long run.
So that's, um, that's why we also confident to, to start, uh, with this new machine.
One of my big questions though, is from a user experience per point of view. Like let's say I got this machine and I had it on my counter and I set it up. What is my first time experience gonna be with it? Am I gonna feel overwhelmed or is it going to, is it fairly intuitive to kind of figure it out as I go?
Uh, we hope you're not gonna be overwhelmed. We work really hard on the, uh, user journey, the user interaction with the machine. We make the interface really simple, uh, for quite a complex engineering project. That's why the user manual is, and we're gonna have videos, training videos, everything available to make sure, first of all, the user is safe.
That doesn't change the health and safety. Uh, we're gonna be quite strict about that. Uh, it's still a piece of machinery for a workshop base environment. It is spinning hot plastic.
Yeah.
So the first thing is making sure the user is in a safe environment for themself and for people around them. And we're gonna make sure everything.
With the delivery of the machine makes you feel confident that you can use this machine. So it's not a candyfloss machine. I know it look, it could look like one, it is a piece of machinery. Uh, so we're gonna have all the structure for health and safety to make sure you don't feel overwhelmed too much and have very clear instruction.
Right. Yeah. And, and, and to jump on, I mean, there are plastics which are easier to, to work with than others. Typically, polypropylene is is very easy. You just need to shred it and, and to put it in a machine, you don't even need to dry it too much because it's not hydrophilic, it doesn't attract moisture.
And so this is typically something where to start with, you could just put the plastic in. Push one button with the program set and, and the fibers would come out, uh, immediately. And so that's easy. As soon as, uh, you try it with DET, for example, water bottles, for example, uh, there, there needs to be a bit more steps, uh, and a bit more caution to, to be able to process it.
You need to dry it very thoroughly. Otherwise the plastic hydrolyzes. And so it starts to transform when melted. And, uh, so there, there are few more steps to, to make sure that, you know, you don't, uh, block the machine or there's no fumes or anything.
Yeah. You're not gonna be putting this in your kitchen counter.
No. This is meant for a workshop. It's meant for
Yes, proper. Yeah. Yeah. Like any, any other, you know, plastic recycling or, or, or shredding or, or CNC router or, you know, you need the ventilation, you need a workshop space and, uh, it can be, you know, and a kitchen.
Yeah. This, this is workshop equipment. Yeah. This is not a household product you place next to your kitchen.
That's, that's the next step. And even smaller machine, you know, just put the bottle and it and it makes a scarf immediately.
No, you're kidding. But on the, one of my follow up questions was gonna be, if the Kickstarter is successful, what do you think the roadmap is for this, for the next two to three years?
Yeah, very good question. I mean, the way we see it is also to potentially go back a big bidder, bigger, because as soon as we talk to companies, even the, our bigger machine right now is, is too small for them. And, uh, and so we see the way to have a range of, of, you know, from one kg to 10 kg to 100kg per hour.
That's a good range and wouldn't be in that, you know, industrial area yet. Uh, but we'd still be in that place where there's not so many, uh, offers. And in parallel, we, we, we definitely have to work, uh, you know, for the next two, three years also on, on product design together with the maker community. But I think, uh, now we have a fully functional machine that can produce fibers, but the, all the opportunities opened by these fibers are still to be unleashed and discovered, um, because we can probably do lots of things. I mean, fiber is, is really the, the, the form, material form that is shared all everywhere. You know, everyone, every culture has its own way to transform fibers into product, into baskets, into weaves, into, and, and all of that really, we haven't been able to explore that much. We're not textile designers, more like mechanical designers.
So here, I think there's really a lot to explore, collaboration to make, uh, invitations and, and, and projects.
Basically, it's seeing what the Maker community does with it. Working with them to evolve the product essentially.
Exactly. And share all of the knowledge and, and see how that can find context and, and uses in their context.
Maybe I'll just add also, um, the first big machine for humanitarian really taught us a lot about, uh, mechanics of the process. I think this machine really taught us about the automation side of the process, and I think now we, we are a lot more prepared, um, if we want to, to, to make more machines, uh, potentially bigger ones.
I think we have a better understanding on of the user experience, um, the reliability of the machine. And, um, I'm confident that the, the next duration will, will be you know, aim at some something as potentially bigger as I said.
Another thing that just popped in my head, why Kickstarter? Why did you decide to go this route versus, uh, more of a traditional direct sales model?
Good question. I think this is more of culture. Let's say we come from, you know, making and engineering and we, we don't have a lot of knowledge in sales. Uh, although we have, you know, people within our team who are a bit more experienced. And, um, and so the good thing about Kickstarter is that it's very structured, it's very, uh, organized.
It has a lot of, uh, examples of other campaigns that we can, uh, you know use and uh, and also the public is, is very much our public in a way. You know, more consumer makers, thinkers, tech lovers. And so we probably could have done it by ourselves, but it would have required us to learn a lot and to structure a lot, uh, uh, a launch like this.
So this is the main reason why, why Kickstarter was really helpful for us, you know, to structure and build that campaign and, and make sure we have everything, all the content, all the videos, all the, all the tech spec, all. We really had the, a list of everything we had to do and we, you know, we had six months to do it.
And, and, and now it's ready for next week. Right.
And, and also, um, to, to keep, to contain the price. We had to, you know, have a bit of, um, volume and the Kickstarter was a good way to, you know, pre-sale them. And then, and then we can produce a bigger number than if we, we had to do by batched, you know, direct to market.
Since this is a very different market that you're going after because the humanitarian plastic recycling angle that you guys had before and you still have now, but with this more consumer product . What's the one thing that you want people to understand about local plastic recycling that they may not realize?
That they also can do something about it and it's a shared responsibility.
I know plastic is a product from industrial era and, uh, mass manufacturing, but not, it's our problem to all on the planet. Uh, and I think Polyfloss is one tool, one solution in a pool of solution for it. Uh, but yeah, we all can do something about it. And the best part, you can use your creativity for it. I think that's what is really great about the Polyfloss.
It's a tool for creative and makers. So depending on your set of skills, you can push your skills to the next level with a new material. But made for waste while joining the movement to do something about plastic pollution.
I think, you know, plastic is a pretty high performance material that we discard, uh, every day without even thinking about it.
And actually we can give it, um, you know, second, third chance we can continue to en en, I mean, enjoy, benefit from this material for a bit longer. If we reuse it and, uh, introduce it in into another product rather than just, uh, burning away.
It feels like if you get these in front of, into, uh, schools, educational settings, it could really open up the minds of the students, children, teenagers, college students, to think about plastic in a completely different way than the rest of us think about plastic.
We hope. But we, Polyfloss also started as an educational tool a long time ago when we were in college, we were thinking, why can't I not use plastic? At school while I'm prototyping. And we started going on tour with the project. We did already a lot of, uh, uh, safely organized children workshop, uh, colleges, uh, design colleges that we went.
It was very, very successful uh, workshops. Uh, that's why we are also excited if we can reach to university design schools. Uh, obviously we are teaching in those university ourself. Uh, we do hope it will become, um, a new tool for workshop and education.
Plastic is, is, is really dramatic today and, and, uh, and microplastic, uh, or many, the many forms that plastic can take.
And I think this is also where we should be creative in the recycling. Um, you know, and, and that's why we're also pushing that people ask, you know, why fibers, why, why do you want to make fibers out of plastic? Well, actually they're much more, I don't, I don't remember the numbers, but they're much more, uh, polyester fibers than polyethylene, than than water bottles, even though they're less visible, but in terms of tonnage, it's much more, they much more use of plastic fibers than than actual bottles. And it's where the plastic actually most used, the most creative, the most unique. Maybe it's because it's flexible. It's very easy to transform and the. And so that's where we have to be recycling them again as well to create value rather than only, you know, pressing them to make, uh, bricks or, um, I think there are, there are really many ways where we can, where we can uh, understand as well that it's everywhere around this.
Plastic is pervasive in our lives in ways that I don't think most of us even realize.
Exactly.
Yeah. One of my final questions for you is kinda looking back at your journey from when you started the company last time we spoke to where you are now.
What's the most important advice that you could give to other aspiring innovators that are looking to solve big problems like you are?
That's, you
go around the room, if that's good one. A comment on that
one. Uh, I think one of the first one is perseverance. It doesn't happen overnight and no, innovation is not magic and there is always a dark side to it.
So I think one of. Sometime we had difficult conversation when people wanted the, like the machine to be fully working yesterday, fully commercial, able, fully everything. But they want innovation, but they don't want the time that it takes. So I think that's something to be very clear about expectation about your innovation.
It is an innovation already. It doesn't come with 20 years of history. Uh, so patient and perseverance in believing in your project, I think would be the first advice. The guy advice, I don't know. Advice are good.
That's good advice. Yeah. No, and, and I mean, to add on that potentially, uh, the team as well, I mean, obviously teamwork is important in, and interdisciplinary teamwork is important in any innovation project that obvious, but, um, you know, it's been 15 years now that we, that we developed this project together in a manner where sometimes, you know, it, it wasn't a company, it was just, uh, kind of projects together. And then sometimes it, it became more, a bit more commercial and then more research and very different settings, uh, every time.
But I think it kept because we were together. And that when one of us was, you know, saying, well, I'm tired of this machine never working. The other one would say, well, I'll continue. And, and oh, we, we won't, we won't stop. And this is something that is very important to keep, pushes the project further.
Find passionate collaborators essentially.
Exactly.
And I think it. Is trust. I think that something that we need, you know, teamwork is really hard. Us you know, working in university, I see my students struggling with group project and work collaboration, but trust and this unexpectable chemistry that maybe we had when we met in college, there was no hidden agenda between us.
Uh, we were just passionate about each other's skills. We want to learn from each other, and I think we have this trust. That is really, really important because we, we are targeting hardware in innovation in humanitarian aid with polymer. So, you know, the layers of complexity of this project. So you need to trust your teammate that, no, no, we can do this.
Uh, it's a lot of mountains. So I think we are really grateful to have met each other for the first, in the first place and have this trust and chemistry.
I, I had a thought few years ago where sometimes we were heading in a bit of unknown direction or somewhere in the dark, somewhere in the blur. And uh, it's kind of scary not to see anybody do something similar.
'cause you don't know if you're doing something relevant or no. But I think now I come to you understand that if you see other people do the same thing, it means that you're not really innovating very much. I think, uh, now I know that not knowing exactly what's, you know. Down there. Maybe it's a good sign that we're trying something that, uh, that is new or hasn't been really explored before.
Yeah. So this is kind of con converting now.
Yeah. Kinda like people telling you to go bigger and you're going smaller. It's like you're, you're, that's innovation. Well, um, those are all great answers. Um, and also I really appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me about this. I'm really excited for your Kickstarter and making this stuff more accessible.
It's really cool stuff that you're doing.
Thank you so much, Matt, for having us. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Should have put this at the top, but we're gonna put it here at the end. Matt. They have a Kickstarter going, you are in no way associated with a Kickstarter.
Oh yeah. We should have mentioned this right at the top.
No, no. This is not a, this is not a paid interview. There's nothing about this that's connected. Yes. Yeah, there is. Yeah. I talked to them two years ago and it was like, Hey, how's the progress going? And it's like, and they had something to talk about. So here we are talking about it. Yeah. It was not an endorsement or anything.
So maybe what we can do, Matt, is at the beginning of this episode, we could either cut that moment and paste at the top or more fun. Start flashing, not a paid endorsement on the screen as I start doing my intro. Anyway, thank you everybody for taking the time to watch or listen. We hope you've enjoyed this conversation and if there's anything that you thought was interesting, something you wanted to underscore for other viewers and listeners or other questions you wish Matt had asked.
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It will bounce harmlessly off the floss that we have wrapped around our scalps. As I mentioned at the beginning, floss, floss, floss. That's right. Everybody go get that chicken outta your teeth. Thank you everybody for taking the time to watch or listen and we'll talk to you next time.