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Fostering community unity through education, advocacy for patients and plants, and efforts to eliminate stigma.
00;00;08;25 - 00;00;14;05
Unknown
Good evening, everyone. I'm Molly the cushion and you reach conversations with Kush podcast tonight.
00;00;14;05 - 00;00;36;11
Unknown
I have a great guest, Mr. Brandon Padgett from Union Bank and trust. He is the chief deposit officer. Welcome, Brandon, to the show. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about Union Bank and trust. I know that they've been around since the 70s and, servicing unions mostly, and now have moved into the cannabis realm about ten years now.
00;00;36;13 - 00;01;05;15
Unknown
Okay, absolutely. So we were founded in 76 by the local building trade leaders, with Hubert Humphrey and a lot of other politicians at the time. He actually cut the ribbon on sweet, to support labor. Right. In the 70s, they saw a lot of changes in store money that was driven by the working men and women of the state going to banks and corporations that weren't labor for, didn't support the movement, didn't support the worker every day worker.
00;01;05;16 - 00;01;26;11
Unknown
So they founded us. So very rare. We're going a few banks 49 years, same ownership. That balance is still the same ownership today, 100%, you know, built for the men and women of this state. And now national banking unions, coast to coast. Nice. Ten years ago, we got into the cannabis space with medical, kind of on a whim, a little bit.
00;01;26;12 - 00;01;54;06
Unknown
The board was like, you know, the two that came, we're looking for banks and board said yes to one of them. And then as medical became legal members. Right. So you saw electricians or sheet metal workers or plumbers or laborers, you know, start to use the medical and sure information go down. And, you know, my dad's a retired electrician, you know, he's got, kidney issues as a 65 year old man.
00;01;54;06 - 00;02;22;09
Unknown
Now. Okay. Yeah. Kicking, happy profit, kicking the opioids when there was bombs like a CBD bomb on a knee or a shoulder or whatever, they some members having great reactions and it went on. So the farm bill passed. We brought in, you know, hemp derived, clients and then the low potency bill passed and we brought those on a also adult use rack and have some awesome, awesome people operators out there that are waiting on licenses.
00;02;22;09 - 00;02;40;08
Unknown
Yeah. For licenses, as are we, because it's been a while. Yeah. That's the kind of the precipice that you make. And trust in our our space of the cannabis, you know? Okay, a lot of banks that have come and asked, should we get in or why. And my first thing is, unless your board is all in because we see it.
00;02;40;08 - 00;03;01;22
Unknown
You've heard it. We've all heard it. There's operators. But at the bank a year, two years, three years on sudden. There you go. You're up or closer come third. You know that's a board decision okay. They make they make a change or I can't speak for them all. But yeah something happens because they're banks. Not only gotcha. That's a big thing I preach this there's some banks in the state that are some really good banks.
00;03;01;24 - 00;03;31;19
Unknown
Okay. What are some of the things that scare the banks off then? Compliance fact that's not federally legal. Just some of the you know, we all remember the recent we don't remember one line, but the reefer madness, everybody. Yeah. Those misconceptions or rumors or, you know. Right. Stigmas. Stigmas. Yeah. You know, I've seen where the bank gets in because one of the owners is dabbling in the CBD space or whatever, and then they get out there.
00;03;31;19 - 00;04;00;02
Unknown
Right. Well, we don't need support. My business does not support other businesses. There's gotcha. But that's why when you're interviewing a bank as an operator or a potential operator to figure out why they're in it, how they're in it, and is it driven by the people of bank, or is it also driven by the ownership group? Nice. So there's a real vested interest in supporting people through their cannabis journey, whether that be on a business front or, supporting your members that are, you know, using cannabis.
00;04;00;02 - 00;04;18;19
Unknown
So I appreciate that work. That's really awesome. Thank you. What types of services then does your bank provide for people? You think about a full service financial right. So anything you would need to be an operator checking account or savings account, those are kind of the duh. But how do you move your money? How does it get to where it's going?
00;04;18;21 - 00;04;40;25
Unknown
The online, the Treasury services, reporting. You know, we have partnered with a really cool fintech out of southern Texas risk out for banks Secrecy Act and anti-money laundering. That's BSA, AML and know your customer. These are all laws that to be compliant you have to follow. Right. Dig into those because those are boring. And I have to take the trainings every year.
00;04;40;25 - 00;04;56;14
Unknown
But, you know, those are things that make sure when, you know, the FDIC comes in or the state comes in to audit you that you're doing those things and so risk out does all those things in the back end. And it helps support the operator too. So it's making sure their licenses are up to date. It's doing the good bad news checks for them.
00;04;56;16 - 00;05;15;11
Unknown
You know it's making sure that they're licensed with the state of Minnesota in our case. And you know, if it's coming up they get alerts. And on the back end they check the cash periods to make sure everything is right, you know, to report that stuff. Sure. You know, any money laundering, cannabis space and people, it's cash intensive, right.
00;05;15;11 - 00;05;32;07
Unknown
Worry about that. So the cool thing about Risk Out is the owner, Justin, his dad is a hemp farmer in Texas. Right. So as we try to partner with these third parties, we're looking for people. Again, I say all in a lot. It's one of our values at any event, control style. Are they all into this space.
00;05;32;09 - 00;05;50;07
Unknown
Are they vested in it. Are they looking for a dollar. Yeah. Know there's a lot of people trying to find a quick buck or apply the can attacks to their business because. Right. See people that don't know where to go don't know where to turn. And we were unabashedly forward about no cat attacks if you saw us.
00;05;50;08 - 00;06;06;25
Unknown
And luckily you look at our social media go to our website. But again, it's a choice. So the operator may choose us, but we're going to interview an operator. And do you have a good business plan? Yeah. Have you signed your LPA? We hear a lot. Oh, I don't have to sign a labor peace agreement unless I get the ten.
00;06;06;28 - 00;06;27;19
Unknown
True. You want to bank with us? You do. You write the story about why you who were founded. Yeah, exactly. And if you're not willing to talk to organizers or let your people talk to organizers, we don't really want to have a relationship. Right. And then, not business plans. You don't have an LPA, you know, you don't have if you're just dreaming.
00;06;27;26 - 00;06;42;19
Unknown
There's nothing wrong with being a dreamer. Well, wonderful. Yeah. Just dreaming. And yep, you don't have to put together. We're going to give you a list. We're not just going to send you off into the street. We'll give you things you need to do, people to talk to. Again. There's different partners around. There's so many in the in the state, in the metro that are amazing.
00;06;42;26 - 00;07;02;10
Unknown
Yeah. Give you those list. Go talk to them and come back. So it's not just yeah we have low fees or no fees in some cases come back with us. It's are you suited and set up to be an operator to drive cannabis for the state and our board in a board meeting in December. So we need you guys to grow this industry.
00;07;02;10 - 00;07;26;09
Unknown
Why? It grows good jobs, right? Widens the middle class back out. It gives good people or people places to start. Right. And we want to see them not starting at $12 an are you 18 is still. Yeah, $20 an hour jobs. I hate to see or think about, you know, this billion dollar industry, you know, having people work two and three jobs to support their family.
00;07;26;09 - 00;07;47;24
Unknown
It's like, you know, there's enough money to go around for everyone. So if we can just kind of disperse that a little bit better, that would be nicer. Well, what are some of the other values of Union Bank and trust that help support, new business owners coming in? So our values are all in what you said, which is just kind of about all in on the labor movement and all in on our clients.
00;07;47;24 - 00;08;09;29
Unknown
Right. Just we're not we don't want to do anything that's, a test or a let's check it out. Let's see. Yeah. And in solidarity, if you're from the labor movement. Yes. I mean, that means we all stand together for better new America, right? Or a better Minnesota, in this case, to better a worker's life, because everybody goes to work every day.
00;08;10;02 - 00;08;39;19
Unknown
And that's what makes our economy. That's what drives everything, right? And we believe that we want to stay in harmony along with labor, and help labor move forward to drive better jobs for people. I love that it goes to the biggest thing then legacy is the other. So nice to 76, right? Yeah, we found it to support the labor unions that support the men and women that have literally built the state great country that nurses such as yourself, the teachers there, the people that serve you at the restaurant.
00;08;39;19 - 00;09;03;07
Unknown
Right, check you in your hotel. So we want to honor that legacy. So bringing on new operators and making sure they're not can attacks so they can create. I talked to somebody at Lucky Leap. Pretty big operator, luckily not Minnesota out in South Dakota. That was expected to be they spent $30,000 in. Thank you ma'am. I asked them, what could you do with that?
00;09;03;09 - 00;09;21;15
Unknown
Right. And the first thing was hire a part time employee, get my back right after that and think about an operator wearing them cell phone. Yeah, it's a good business with good jobs that they can't. You can't run at 100 miles an hour for years, right? You'll sell the business. The business will fail, you know, you won't get your you lose your passion.
00;09;21;15 - 00;09;48;22
Unknown
You lose your passion. Yeah. So, I mean, $30,000 is a lot of money. It is a small business. Can take that part time member, more product marketing, research, whatever. It can go back into the business and you think about the future. Cool. We haven't for two years made some BS. Awesome. Yeah. For 20 years. And they scaled and they're they're a 50 person employer and that's way better for us right.
00;09;48;22 - 00;10;14;05
Unknown
I got them for the state. Yeah I have to imagine that's pretty like a source of pride to when you see things like that happening. One of the things I wanted to say was, sorry that I lost the, So I was thinking about, being that, you know, not just a legacy piece, but also just being that trusted resource in the community.
00;10;14;05 - 00;10;33;16
Unknown
Right. Like, these are the folks that are really invested in seeing you win and being seeing you being successful. You know, they want you to be well and in all aspects of life. So, you know, again, great work on that. One other thing I wanted to mention was it sounds like you're very supportive of new people coming in.
00;10;33;16 - 00;10;50;13
Unknown
So maybe if they come into the bank and they have this big dream, right? And they're just not sure, like how to put all the pieces together. It sounds like you have a supportive platform to help them kind of figure things out. Just talk a little bit more about that if you could. So again, back to just talking to people, getting connections through the space.
00;10;50;13 - 00;11;11;21
Unknown
And who do we think of you as somebody that's here to help grow it versus just make a buck? So there's CPAs, there's lawyers, there's, distributors, there's manufacturers, there's all the things you need. Cultivators, that we believe on top are just great people that are trying to grow the industry. We'll introduce we'll give people list.
00;11;11;21 - 00;11;30;12
Unknown
We don't give them one CPR one. Sure. Because, you know, they'll match that, that everything's a person. Right. Here's a list of people we think you should talk to that we believe are going to help us drive this industry forward and help you succeed as an operator. Streams are awesome. Yeah, dream is a dream without a plan, right?
00;11;30;14 - 00;11;50;16
Unknown
Do you get a lot of people like that coming in, or do people pretty much kind of have do they know what they want and like what they're looking for and what they need? It's like, who do you serve? Yeah. Now, today it's more put together, right? People have other plans, have their spaces, have their real estate, whatever it looks like or know what they're going after.
00;11;50;18 - 00;12;10;22
Unknown
You go back kind of right after the announcement in the first lottery. That didn't happen, right? Prior to that, there's just a lot of people calling or walking in and going, you know, I went to a blockbuster once. I understand retail. I smoked weed in high school. So yeah, it's not as if only it's not a lottery ticket.
00;12;10;22 - 00;12;29;15
Unknown
There's a lot of work. Yeah. You know this. You talk to a lot of people. Yeah. Whether it's the bank or are the operator or you're supporting the operator, there's a lot of work and nothing comes easy. A dollars never made easily. So yeah, for sure, people that are got it together got their their network or whatever, we can help provided needed.
00;12;29;15 - 00;12;56;16
Unknown
But yeah. What are some of so like the industry is like very complex and with federal regulations. So what are some of the biggest challenges that cannabis businesses face when they're trying to access financial services from the limit of it? One okay, a lot of people don't understand cannabis in in general. You know, it's still where it's scheduled, right?
00;12;56;19 - 00;13;18;29
Unknown
Yeah. Schedule like it's going to kill you. Exactly. With heroin. Yeah. Everything else on that list is manufactured. Is man made right? Ridiculously addicted. Can kill you with one dose, right? Right. I listen to podcasts once. You'd have to smoke like, 200 pounds of marijuana in an hour. I think it's six. Yeah, it's really hot. It's a really high number.
00;13;19;03 - 00;13;38;29
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, the limited access and then the high cost. You know, we we're trying to build a lending program. We have a linear program. What I say by trying is there's a lot of people that need startup money, right? Right now, with the way it's scheduled, there's no USDA money out there, no USDA guarantees, there's no SBA guarantees out there.
00;13;39;02 - 00;14;02;10
Unknown
And for a bank, when you look at risk profile, you'd love to help that small business or needs 50,000 $100,000 in the line of credit. But right now, for the auditors and our people, like, I'm look at this. We have to underwrite in a traditional way. Sure, if you don't have hard assets, like a house to put up or building or cars or, you know, a big life insurance plan or whatever, right?
00;14;02;10 - 00;14;21;10
Unknown
It's hard to get that startup money. And we have some partners to help in the marketplace that we can send them to, to get them started. Is that typically what it takes then, for startup as 50 to 100,000 for a small business? Okay. Ask for sure $1,000 on line of credit. So that's why I use those numbers.
00;14;21;10 - 00;14;39;25
Unknown
But so access to capital is it's super difficult. It's either you have the hard assets or you go to like a venture capitalists or private equity. And you know, they they want to carve you out of your own business. Right. Most of the time I speaking out of turn against. Yeah. You know, there's the concern of the a lot of people, especially the banks have the cash management concerns.
00;14;39;25 - 00;14;57;25
Unknown
Oh, the money came from cannabis as the fed going to take it. And, you know, there's, imperial laws and imperial amendment out there that that protects from that. A little bit of you never know, especially when we're going through government right now, it seems like every other day. Yeah. Big change. Yeah. Shut down or right. Whatever.
00;14;57;25 - 00;15;21;01
Unknown
Not to dive deep into politics. Right it is. Yeah. Another thing is building the compliance program. You know, we're lucky enough to have Debbie fast. She is. I can't speak to the bankers at Stearns. I know who's been around, but she's been in this cannabis since it's been in the state. Right. So her expertise, along with other people on the staff and and risk out, help us feel comfortable and confident in the back end of that.
00;15;21;04 - 00;15;40;25
Unknown
Okay. They don't have that or they view it as we get, we're gonna have to hire 6 or 7 new people and that's expensive. Sure. You know, so it's cost prohibitive for even them. You know, a third party like Risk Out has it cost. Sure. You know, but we we believe with our vendors that we're bringing on the support cannabis, that we want cannabis.
00;15;40;25 - 00;16;00;04
Unknown
So we're not passing the cost on. Gotcha. Just because, again, we'd have to hire three people to do it. Risk out. Yeah. I can do math way cheaper, right? Yeah. So you have those issues and then payment processing. We've seen we saw luckily that some of the act come tumbling down. Right? Yeah. Cannabis issues were always just hidden in the minutia.
00;16;00;08 - 00;16;25;05
Unknown
Right. Somebody caught up. Yeah. I don't pretend to be the expert. Know who got up to it, but somebody caught up to it. And we had all the issues last week. And so how do they move the money? What's it look like for them? Right. I talked about all those things. Yeah. Okay. So those things besides Debbie, how do you, navigate that legal gray area and provide services and still maintain compliance?
00;16;25;07 - 00;16;43;18
Unknown
So it's it's not really a gray area is a state regulated bank, right? Okay. We have our program or cannabis program or AML, BSA program that the state orders have looked at. The FDIC has looked at, you know, because it's illegal in the state of Minnesota, it's it's legal. Have the cash. Right. And that's where the Imperial amendment comes in, okay.
00;16;43;20 - 00;17;03;01
Unknown
The DEA, FBI, the government, they say they won't go after any cannabis money made legally in the legal state. Okay. For those of you that don't know, and I might be murdered, you know, I'll say it. Imperial is a cash transit company that was moving, I believe, cash from a legal business in Oklahoma to a bank that legally bank to Colorado.
00;17;03;07 - 00;17;13;23
Unknown
Gotcha. And the agent decided to start taking those trucks and it's like 3 million or 2.8 million or something like that. And it sounds like the Mafia.
00;17;13;26 - 00;17;41;14
Unknown
Operators are like, what the hell? And they went to court and that was the imperial amendment. Okay. They won't go after previously. Who knows what's going to go on here right now? Yeah. But we won't go after cannabis money made legally. All right. So. Well, hopefully we can get rescheduling done. I'd like to see cannabis scheduled personally, like, you know, but, it's probably going to be schedule three, so that's whatever they mean for us.
00;17;41;14 - 00;18;04;08
Unknown
Even schedule three, it's still limited, right? So you still have those other issues we need safe banking or whatever the iteration it's called today that allows access and says it's just good to bank this across the country. What are some of the what should cannabis entrepreneurs look for when they're choosing a bank partner? And like, what are some of the red flags?
00;18;04;11 - 00;18;23;13
Unknown
What should they look for? Again, I kind of said at the intro, yeah, it's all in, you know. Are you talking to them about their board or are you talking to them about their experiences? Are you talking to them about who's supporting? Do they have the program AML, BSA program that does that bank already talked with their, regulator or their auditor?
00;18;23;13 - 00;18;37;19
Unknown
Have they talked with state, you know, FDIC for us in the state of Minnesota and they talked to the OCM. You know that's right. And gets drug through the model. But, you know, I was asked people list the things that Kim has done well and they can list a lot. You know, there's some things that are very frustrating.
00;18;37;24 - 00;19;02;02
Unknown
Yeah. The back end for operators or potential operators. But you know, have they that been to have a relationship with going out and asking them if they talked to, finance. You know, Minnesota Finance Department, has your bank got a relationship? Ask the questions. What was the second part of the question? Just like, yeah, sure. Some of the red flags, people that haven't.
00;19;02;04 - 00;19;21;21
Unknown
Right. That yeah. People that say, well, we have to we have to charge these fees because the up charging them the can of tax, it costs money to turn the lights on. Yeah for sure. You have staff. So there's fees. Banks have fees right. Banks make money on the spread. You have to make money to have the services.
00;19;21;21 - 00;19;50;19
Unknown
But you know some loans we've seen you $2,500 a month. The checking account. Yeah that's a lot larger ATM service business. Yeah. You know, did you charge your online gambling business that right. Other high risk markets. Right. And typically no. Right. They didn't supply the cannabis. And then work. They got their background. You know, we're we use PVC that PVC it's our payments banking and compliance and cannabis is, organization out of DC.
00;19;50;19 - 00;20;09;25
Unknown
And we use their training, that PVC certification. Okay. There are several our courses. There's two there's a level one, level two where you get all the history of cannabis and the legality of it. You get the understanding the 280, the nice, all the things you need to know at a very high level because we're not a to an expert.
00;20;09;25 - 00;20;35;29
Unknown
Right. Or not, cash transit expert. That's what we have partners. Right. But do you understand it? Do they understand it? The red flags just any banker that this is diving into. Normally, this isn't a red flag, but if they're, you know, I. I think about luckily, there's some really good banks that have been in it, and there's some newer ones that are I talk to them all.
00;20;36;01 - 00;20;52;22
Unknown
But how did they how did the people show up? Do they show up your cannabis business in a sport coat, in slacks? Or did they show up in a bank hoodie? Yeah. Are they taking you seriously? Sure. You know, I like my quarters, but if I'm coming to my first meeting and you're an operator, I want to show you that you matter.
00;20;52;25 - 00;21;24;22
Unknown
Right? A little nicer because I represent you as your bank, right? Not just your buddy. And maybe that's just a personal thing for me, but, no, I baker's a professional. I think that you are very mindful. In fact, I heard you on the Northern Lights podcast and you talked about, you know, cannabis use amongst professionals and, like, you know, you wait until you're done with your day and then you use cannabis, you know, so I think being mindful in, in many aspects around cannabis is, is really helpful and important.
00;21;24;24 - 00;21;43;15
Unknown
One of the things that I love about you guys is that, you know, you understand that relationships are the crux of everything. I see you at so many events. I see you out at happy hour. I see you everywhere talking to people and like really getting to know people. And I think that's the most important thing when you when I say, you know, what are the red flags?
00;21;43;15 - 00;22;00;10
Unknown
I'm like, you know, you think about a bank. It's already intimidating to go in there. But if you can go in and be like, yeah, I talked to Brandon at Happy Hour last week, I think we have a good plan, you know? So I think if people are just like sitting down and you're taking the time to look at them, you know, eye to eye and be like, let's walk you through this.
00;22;00;10 - 00;22;25;29
Unknown
This is where you're at. This is where you need to be. And these are the action steps that'll get you there. I think that's really important. So I appreciate that personal touch. What is safe banking? What is, safe being essentially, it's, I think it's been around since 2017. That was wasn't on your previous. I know it wasn't as a surprise.
00;22;26;01 - 00;22;45;19
Unknown
It's essentially a memo that would allow cannabis banking just to be legal. So even if it's not the schedule it allows in that high risk place to the ACH is are legal for everybody, right. The SBA then could open up and USB guarantees. And this is my understanding. Talk to your lawyer. Yeah. Mean I guess but it would it would just make it easier for the banks.
00;22;45;19 - 00;23;13;02
Unknown
Wouldn't have to worry about somebody coming in and seizing the money or got you. If you're regulated by the fed, you wouldn't have to worry about the fed shutting you down or coming in and taking money or giving you a big bank fine. It just protects the banks that want to support cannabis. Okay, okay. And then with the federal legalization and safe banking, what changes do you foresee in the future for cannabis banking future hopefully comfortability, you know, as it were the 23rd state right.
00;23;13;02 - 00;23;36;08
Unknown
We understand that. And it's more and more do it with just legal THC right. Yeah. And there's so many more states that have their that the hemp. Is it all right. Yep. You have the medical. So as it becomes more common I'm trying to think of an analogy. Where, where anything something's new, there's a lot of trepidation and there's a lot of scariness, and there's we don't understand the rules.
00;23;36;08 - 00;24;03;05
Unknown
But the more we understand the rules, the more people do do research and as the scheduling and the safe bed comes, everybody can do it without, you know, looking for a big brother over their shoulder. Gotcha. And I think that's the biggest thing is as people get more comfortable, we talked prior to this, almost everybody has some sort of relationship with cannabis, whether it's a buddy or it's themself, whether it's high school or college or it's yeah, coming to it later in life for aches and pains, whatever that is.
00;24;03;08 - 00;24;24;15
Unknown
We everybody has a relationship some way with cannabis, and the more we can talk about that and be forward with it, you know, we're pretending that it's not a thing, right? Right. So like you go there and there's marijuana everywhere. Yeah. They're they're voting it now in Florida, right north and South Dakota.
00;24;24;18 - 00;24;45;22
Unknown
Constituents voted yes. And the governor said no. Yeah. And it's it's this old school mentality. So as we break away from that and get into, I can't think of another industry right now. It's on my head. But that's okay. We're we're you become more comfortable and confident in you. Society let you become more comfortable and confident. Sure.
00;24;45;23 - 00;25;06;25
Unknown
We're getting there in Minnesota, right? We talked about that. You know, people coming to it later in life because they have things going wrong and they don't want to fill their body with medicine. Right. Not for you to go to the doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of these medicines, you know, you're on them to maintain, right?
00;25;06;25 - 00;25;27;18
Unknown
Something or as or, you know, one pill is causing a side effect, and then you take another pill for that side effect and so on and so forth. Yeah. So yeah, it's how do we, how do we, drive forward and just have conversations, you know, if you're a supporter of this or you're a supporter of somebody who's a supporter of this, have open conversations.
00;25;27;18 - 00;25;46;07
Unknown
And the more can I say, like comfortable and confident we are just as a society, the easier and better will be to bank, to operate, to just talk about. Yeah, for sure. I think it is really important. It's one of the missions of the podcast is really to normalize cannabis use, especially as medicine, and just really destigmatize cannabis.
00;25;46;07 - 00;26;08;05
Unknown
And, you know, so even if you are someone who doesn't wait until the end of their workday, if you get up and you smoke cannabis or use cannabis right away in the morning to, like, get you going, like my hope and dream is that, you know, people won't make a judgment about that. You know, like everyone's personal relationship with cannabis is different, and there doesn't have to be any kind of judgment attached to it.
00;26;08;05 - 00;26;25;19
Unknown
So I think you're right. We need to just really open that up. And I think education is often key to that. You know, people, if they can, you know, learn that they have an endocannabinoid system in their body. And just because your doctor doesn't know about it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You know? So there's still a lot of work to do.
00;26;25;19 - 00;26;59;17
Unknown
But when you think about there's a difference, right? Like, I'm a recreational cannabis user, I shouldn't be using at 10 a.m. because I'm at work. Yeah. You're a medical cannabis user because whatever it is. Yeah, that's. Yeah, yeah, I think distinction. I think that there's actually not I find no delineation between medical cannabis people that consider themselves medical cannabis users and recreational users, because I think we're all using cannabis for our own set of problems or symptoms that we're trying to, you know, resolve within ourselves.
00;26;59;19 - 00;27;18;01
Unknown
So I think there can be a tipping point, though, you know, where people are like, okay, maybe it's a little too much, but that is up to that person to be like, yeah, I'd like to spend less money on cannabis or I'd like to, you know, be more present at the end of the day. You know, in my industry, like I don't.
00;27;18;03 - 00;27;43;20
Unknown
Yeah. Happened in Eric's office like, hey, wake up. Yeah. That's right. Yeah. I mean, some people are really functional though, you know, I've heard of people saying like, dabbing gives them a really functional type of experience so they feel more clear and and level headed. So I don't know, it's like everything I have. Yeah. Think about ADHD. It's not the same for everybody in this medicine for this person makes them.
00;27;43;23 - 00;28;09;02
Unknown
And that's what makes them what exactly affects your body. Yeah. You and to your point, are you present? Yeah. Exactly. Your work for photography, you know, talking about work or not. Yeah. You want to do. Exactly. Yeah. Those are all present. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Thanks for that little breakout. I love that. So cannabis businesses are still pretty cash heavy.
00;28;09;05 - 00;28;29;19
Unknown
What's the risks of that? And what financial strategies would you recommend to mitigate those risks? The risk? I think the biggest risk when you're cash heavy is security, right? Yeah. Security's not cheap, but the right doors, the right windows, the right safes. If you're super cash heavy, I know it's an extra cost, but I wouldn't suggest moving that money on your own.
00;28;29;19 - 00;28;52;27
Unknown
Right. We have a partner that does armored cash transport. Okay. You know, we we love about them is they're hiring ex-police or ex-military people if they're coming in an explorer versus a giant truck that says, look, I have money here, a professional, but and then the other thing is, digital safes are huge. Okay. What I love about digital safes is you put the money in, you can't get it back out.
00;28;52;27 - 00;29;13;00
Unknown
It's gone. It's a bank deposit. Okay, we get a notification that night. Your money is there so your cash flow doesn't ring right. Okay. Are you do to pick up weekly? Biweekly? Your cash flow is still there every night. So you can still operate. And then somebody is coming in removing it for two people, taking it out in an armored car.
00;29;13;03 - 00;29;29;26
Unknown
And there's a cost. But what I like to tell people is if you're the owner, operator, or if you own multiple stores, who's going to take that cash? It's you, or it's your manager, the highest paid person in your operation, and now they're out of the bank or out of banks, or they're out of the office, or out of the dispensary, out of wherever, right?
00;29;29;26 - 00;29;47;25
Unknown
For an hour, two hours, depending where the bank is. Yeah. They're going to get lunch now. They're out for three hours. And that's your biggest expense, right? You do that every day and they're taking a huge risk. Taking a huge risk. Right. It's crazy. So things like that how can we secure things. And I think the secure armored transport.
00;29;47;25 - 00;30;07;01
Unknown
And I'm not pretending like there's not a cost associated. Yeah. Some mind in that. Okay. Let's hear the ring camera. Right. Yeah. Does it really provide security? No, but somebody comes to the door that you don't know or whatever. Yeah. You have a picture, a video. It provides a peace of mind. Sure. Hopefully nothing ever happens.
00;30;07;01 - 00;30;23;28
Unknown
And it's a cost. It's sunk in a war, in a sense. Yeah. Nobody ever tries to rob you. That's amazing. Never tries to take your cash. That's amazing. But, you know, I think about it from the bank side or high in cash. We don't we don't go out. It's locked. Right of all right. Don't move it for ourselves.
00;30;24;01 - 00;30;40;15
Unknown
And a lot of people think banks get all the money, actually don't care. Banks don't carry very much cash. Yeah, it's been series have more cash than we do. Sure. And the cool thing about the pic of is it doesn't go to your bank. It goes directly to the fed. Yeah. So it's just I've always encouraged people to they're like, oh yeah, I want to start a dispensary.
00;30;40;15 - 00;30;56;23
Unknown
Oh I'm to apply for my license. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. It's like, let's think about some ancillary jobs that you could do in the cannabis industry, like security or. Yeah, exactly. You know, I wish people would think outside of the bar or lab work or. Yeah, one testing labs in the state.
00;30;56;23 - 00;31;16;18
Unknown
Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You know, people, we I talked to a guy out of Duluth and I'm sure there's more, but I haven't heard of one. Pest control. Yeah. Cannabis only pest control. Sure. That's smart. Yeah. Me neither. Obviously, I grew up in Iowa. I understand how ignorant. Pest control. Yeah. Things of that. Then I should have thought about it.
00;31;16;18 - 00;31;39;08
Unknown
But yeah, that's outside of the box. Sure. So many ways to help industry somebody. They grow the industry so many ways to make money in the industry for sure. For sure. How do you how do you see traditional finance institutions evolving to better support the cannabis industry?
00;31;39;10 - 00;31;58;23
Unknown
Federal legalization changes at all. Yeah. Yep. USDA of SBA, you have all the big players in that you can do some different things. But again, it just comes back to comfortability. The more people you talk to, all the banks that, Lucky Leaf and just explain to them how we're lending, why we're lending, what we're doing, the advanced rates, things like that.
00;31;58;23 - 00;32;21;29
Unknown
So for me, I know we can't be the only cannabis bank of state of Minnesota. That's ludicrous stuff. Yeah. How can I just email back and forth with another bank president? Because I'm not a bank president with a bank president. Today, about meeting and furthering the conversation we had. So it's awesome sharing our message of comfortability in the wise in the House.
00;32;22;02 - 00;32;41;23
Unknown
The more other banks understand the business is the business that it's not, you know, it's not a fly by the seat type of thing. The better. Yeah, I've said it ad nauseum now, but the more we get comfortable in the industry. So I, I know I probably talked to 12 different banks over the last three months. That's awesome.
00;32;42;01 - 00;33;05;05
Unknown
That's really that's really great leadership to I think, you know, to stand out and be like, hey, this is what we stand for. And, you know, how can we help you guys, you know, come into the fold and how can we collaborate or how can we work together or, you know, I love that. I think that's, you know, hopefully one of the unique things about Minnesota is that we will collaborate with people and, you know, play nice in the sandbox.
00;33;05;05 - 00;33;29;08
Unknown
So think about the industry here. And I probably use this example too much. But I think about unreal, right. Eagan I think they said a Super Bowl commercial. Why. Because Minnesotans love Minnesota stuff. Yeah. Right. So the more we can support these Minnesotans and the more people listening go out and support the local craft owners and operators and drive it forward.
00;33;29;08 - 00;33;51;02
Unknown
We get the brands right. We've done it. And and beer be exactly done it. And vodka. Yeah. And we have the best cannabis, beverage industry in, in the whole nation. So yeah. So the more we do that, the more we drive out, the more banks, you know, at some of these bigger, THC drinks, you know, the ones he drinks, they're operating out of some of the bigger banks.
00;33;51;05 - 00;34;20;07
Unknown
Yeah. And so that's driving comfortability. What do we love to have them come see us? Yeah, we we need all the banks, all the professional services to get comfortable. Yeah. For sure. Understand that because Minnesota is going to do it Minnesota does that support each. Yeah I like it small actually. I like to see, you know you know, people that aren't Wells Fargo, you know, or you know, JP Morgan or Chase or whoever, I, I would prefer to see Union or even U.S. Bank.
00;34;20;07 - 00;34;42;19
Unknown
I think they're local bank too. So, you know, there's awesome banks out there. I mean, yeah, Bridgewater Park State, magnifies doing it. Stearns has been in as long as we have doing a commercial for our competitors. Uses competitors have uses. That's awesome. Thanks. I'm leaving some out. Sorry. All banks that are trying to drive this industry forward.
00;34;42;24 - 00;35;10;03
Unknown
Yeah, because we need to. Yeah, we do. Yeah. I mean, it's a supportive service that, you know, the industry needs. So just like marketing or insurance or, you know, other things. What do you understand about 280 E and how does that affect how you're able to operate? Ask a banker about taxes is a cardinal. It is like, I didn't know this anything.
00;35;10;06 - 00;35;38;20
Unknown
You know, we refer them my understanding to any of those. It it blocks the things that are traditional business can write off to save money and invest back into your business. Gotcha. Simplest form of it. You know, if I operate Brandon's bowling alley and I buy pins, I can write them off, right? I buy the beer, I take a road trip to a conference or buy a plane ticket or a conference.
00;35;38;20 - 00;35;57;26
Unknown
I can write those things off. Sure. So I don't have to pay as much taxes or get get money back at the end of the year to put back in to my business. Okay? Or cannabis or cannabis related operators can't do that. Okay. So you don't really. That part's just out of your purview, then. That's kind of got it.
00;35;57;28 - 00;36;37;28
Unknown
Need the CPA. All right, next show. Talk about your personal relationship with cannabis. When did you first consume cannabis? When did I first. Yeah, cannabis. I told you this story off line. I followed a woman to Kansas City, right? Yes. So. And that there a friend that I knew from high school, they moved down there. I smoked with her earlier, at the beginning of college, and then started smoking with them again in Kansas City and pretty light recreational user over the years.
00;36;38;00 - 00;37;00;09
Unknown
You know, as the industry set up here and it's been more accessible, less stigma, you know, use it at the cabin versus alcohol. Yeah. My parents are in town. Don't listen. Mom and dad, the last two nights the six sons play was just canceled because of snow, but. Oh, bummer. THC drink last night. Okay. Talks at me or with me, however you want to look at that.
00;37;00;09 - 00;37;23;16
Unknown
Yeah. And then it's, you know, for me, it's completely replaced alcohol situation for you to have alcohol. Yeah. Having a THC drink that's great. Or whatever. Or just to relax. Yeah. It's all the spaces your your typical alcohol use reviews. I use it there. And in my relationship, I don't know if I've completely ended it with alcohol.
00;37;23;16 - 00;37;40;00
Unknown
Haven't drank alcohol quite a while now, but yeah, it's you know, if you want a little bit. It's relaxing. Yeah. It can be many different things. I think we all understand that. But it's. And I'll talk to my wife because she won't listen. You know, when the drinks came around, you know, she was a recreational smoker for a long time.
00;37;40;01 - 00;38;02;13
Unknown
Okay. We have a seven and a five year old. Both boys. They're all boys. Yeah. They bring stuff right up in her drink at the end of the night. Now I'm just perfect. Saw that. Okay. Yeah. The soccer mom market is massive. Yeah, right. I don't mean that as a negative thing. Yeah. No home that that makes your house runs.
00;38;02;18 - 00;38;26;18
Unknown
Yeah. That's, that's the thing that's going to drive this industry for. Yeah. For sure. I think it more accepted, I guess. It's hard to argue with Tina and Blaine at the Open Sports Center. Who's watching her kids. Right? Right. It's. I think sometimes all soccer moms might have alcohol in their cups, too, and they're Stanley, so I don't know.
00;38;26;21 - 00;38;47;04
Unknown
I don't know, I wasn't a soccer mom like that. But, I think it's a thing that, you know, for me, it could be go out to a party to have more fun, you know, a little bit and read a book. Yeah. Right. Yeah. You think about that, too. If you get two drinks in, you're not really read the book right?
00;38;47;06 - 00;39;13;04
Unknown
Eating pizza and watching a movie. Yeah, those things are fun, but I don't know. Yeah, it's been six months. Our tradition of living from alcohol and just cannabis, and that's just. I sleep better. Yeah. That's dope. Literally, literally. You don't? Well, you can get a cannabis hangover too, but those are. Yeah, a lot more rare than. Right. You know whiskey for sure am I every time.
00;39;13;06 - 00;39;38;14
Unknown
Yeah. Right. What did your parents say when you were having your beverage that they join you? My mom has. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk fast. That's good. Yeah. My dad was a user. Was younger. I've tried to convince him. I talked about earlier some of the issues with ibuprofen. Only person I really had to quit drinking to help his liver recover, even though he wasn't a big drinker.
00;39;38;19 - 00;40;04;15
Unknown
Sure. I guess I'll have drinks there, but just not drinking at home. Yeah, at dinner he's not drinking when we get together in Vegas, essentially. That's right. And couldn't drink because. Ibuprofen. Yeah. No, they love it. And my dad, you know, my dad is a retired electrician. And he loves the, mission of how do we grow the middle class through great cannabis jobs.
00;40;04;18 - 00;40;25;27
Unknown
You know, he's a child of the 60s, too, so, yeah, there's some really big unions stepping up and organizing our labor force. I'm super excited about that. Do you foresee Union being able to support them in their mission to organize the labor force? Yeah, absolutely. I just did a moments the United Food and Commercial Workers 1189 right there.
00;40;25;27 - 00;40;53;16
Unknown
Yeah. Over here in Saint Paul. Yeah. Teamsters. 120 and 346 on a plane in Duluth. And, operating engineers, which is what is that your kid you played with Tonka trucks. Trucks, not trucks. And trucks. They operate the real Tonka trucks, right? They're looking to organize awesome. All awesome organization. You see, if you come to try to make this, it's on our checklist of an LPA from those three.
00;40;53;18 - 00;41;14;19
Unknown
And it's a weird space though, right? Because, yeah, you operate heavy machinery or an electrician or whatever it may be. There's drug tests. Yeah, yeah. So it's a it's a weird space. Yeah, I believe you. Have you started lobbying at the national level? 107 for national legalization? Yep. Teamsters started doing the same thing in oh nine.
00;41;14;23 - 00;41;35;04
Unknown
Okay. So they do it. They're in the trenches, then? Yeah. There's whole divisions, right? For sure. To, a gentleman at that top of the Teamsters, they, they're, they're organizing across the country, and there's a guy out of Blaine that's they're taking him across the country to help organize and, you know, doing the same thing. It's amazing.
00;41;35;04 - 00;41;57;23
Unknown
People that that want. There's 480,000 cannabis workers in the US, right? Wow. It's a big number. 6500 are organized. Okay. Right. So there's a mission for these guys. Yeah. There's a lot of and it's not cannabis. It's it's everywhere right. Bad jobs. There's a lot of underpaid jobs. Right. We don't have a future right. You know what these organizations want to do is give a future.
00;41;57;27 - 00;42;13;26
Unknown
Yeah. For sure. Start at the dispensary. Right. We're going to work in the counter. If you can move in a market or you move into a whatever you can, you can move through and you know, you have a pension, you know. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Your kids can go to the emergency room without you having to freak out. Right.
00;42;13;26 - 00;42;38;12
Unknown
And your kids can see you at night time. See. Yeah. Because you're not working three jobs or bankruptcy in America. Yeah. Believe it. Yeah. Making sense to me. Don't get on that horse right now. Yeah. But these these unions are trying to prevent that for sure. And think about it. If you have a staff or your lowest paid person's $20 an hour, they have a pension and they have retirement, they have health care.
00;42;38;15 - 00;43;11;05
Unknown
What's your turnover? It goes way down. Yeah. 85%, 20%. You don't have to retrain because roughly across the industry is $20,000 to train an entry level person. Oh, it's a way a lot more for nurses too. Yeah. So if you need 20 new people every year, then do the math. Come a couple of things. I have seen some instances where cities like I'm thinking specifically of like Trenton, new Jersey, just because I talked to a couple from there a couple of weeks ago on the show.
00;43;11;07 - 00;43;33;07
Unknown
They talked about having guidelines for people that work in spaces where they're like helping professionals, or maybe people that work in like transportation or operate heavy machinery, having guidelines for cannabis use so that they could still access their medication in a safe and safe way so they could, yeah, still could do their work. So I think there's a lot to be done around that.
00;43;33;09 - 00;43;57;09
Unknown
And think about the stigma too. You can be a drunk and you're pastoring at 3 a.m. exactly 15, and then you go to work, right? Operate the machine and you might have to take a drink before you go, just so you don't shake it. So that's fine. Yeah. But you medically making sure your anxiety's down or you don't hurt, or you want to bend over and touch your toes.
00;43;57;09 - 00;44;22;13
Unknown
Exactly. Okay. It's. It is. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Shit. I forgot what was on this as I was going to say about it, but. Oh, is there anything that we didn't talk about that you'd really like to get across about Union Bank and trust or about your personal story or, you know, the Union Bank and trust?
00;44;22;16 - 00;44;46;25
Unknown
It's something when I think about the way I grew up, you know, the electrician father was organized, an educator mother who was a organized teacher, organized teacher, grandfather, aunts, you know, to answer several presidents of their teachers unions and nice the crossover space to union. I spent 19 years in banking before I came to union.
00;44;46;25 - 00;45;12;02
Unknown
So just the way my life kind of came to this confluence a couple of years ago in my 40s. I love to help people, with their finances and help the business owners and help the larger organizations just get things done. Yeah. And then be able to do it in this space. Both with the union world and now in the cannabis space, because whether you're a user or not, a user, I do believe it's a helpful situation.
00;45;12;04 - 00;45;27;08
Unknown
Something that whether you want to use to relax, you want to use it because you need to get up. Yeah. I hate the stigma of it. You know, I hate the stigma of unions, too. You talk to a lot of people, and they don't. They have no idea what they're talking about. Oh, all they do is get federal money.
00;45;27;10 - 00;45;48;04
Unknown
No, they have 9.9 90s out there. You can Google it. Show me the federal money they got for no reason. Right. Doesn't exist. Right. Or it doesn't exist. That money. That's the teacher. That's the nurse. That's the electrician's money that they're coming from the chat for their future, for their health care, for their medication. It's not if it's no racket.
00;45;48;06 - 00;46;08;27
Unknown
What a great parallel. There was never rackets with things back in the day. But yeah, it's it's not what you think. I challenge anybody that's anti cannabis or anything. You need to do some research. And I'd say that very loosely because research is not what us do on Google. Yeah. If you're in that especially when you work sometime I did my own research.
00;46;09;00 - 00;46;35;00
Unknown
Talk to a union member. How about that. Go directly to the source and let them tell you about how being in the union has changed our life. I personally love my union. I worked as a laborer app in my professional union, and I, you know, I, I want to see my profession elevated, just like I want to see other jobs like teachers and, you know, food service workers and janitors, you know, the people that clean the hospital.
00;46;35;00 - 00;46;58;19
Unknown
I mean, these are all really important jobs. And people shouldn't have to be, you know, giving away their labor for pennies. They should be compensated for their work, for their labor. I've always said that there's been so. Yeah. And there's been such a war on labor since the 70s, really. And maybe even prior to that, you know, so it's something that we really do need to fight against it.
00;46;58;20 - 00;47;16;16
Unknown
You're right. There is a stigma that's a really great parallel that you've drawn between cannabis and union, union work. So, I really appreciate the mission and the sentiment of Union Bank and trust. So I just want to thank you for being here today and spreading the good word about what you do and how you support this industry.
00;47;16;18 - 00;47;49;16
Unknown
Thanks for having me. Yeah, yeah. Thanks again. So, any final thoughts other than the one you gave? No, I think you got the three there. So I'm excited I guess would be my final thought, you know? Yeah. Since, you know, I don't use rec became law. We spent months now trying to prepare operators, trying to prepare ourselves for training new people, bringing in services, growing the the clean network to make sure we can help this industry.
00;47;49;18 - 00;48;06;16
Unknown
And I'm just excited to see, you know, we're we're going to see some licenses now and keep things going in. It's whether you bank with us or not. I wish you the best because I want to see this thing just explode. Yeah, in a good way. You know, the 23rd state. So, yeah. I haven't got everything right. Yeah.
00;48;06;16 - 00;48;31;00
Unknown
But we are learning from the people who went before us, and we're learning from other operators in other states and from each other. And it's going to be a lot of fun. How can people find you? You do make them trust. So do you. You beat Amazon.com awesome. Or you you make and trust on LinkedIn. You go out there, my my cell is right there.
00;48;31;02 - 00;48;45;04
Unknown
In direct email. So. Okay. Perfect. Whether you want to make with us or you just want to, kick the tires and have some questions asked, please call between myself and Oliver and Jason, and the way they're on the front line. Will be able to have those conversations. And if you're at Lucky Leave, you know that all of us.
00;48;45;04 - 00;49;04;21
Unknown
Yeah. So say hi. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I look forward to seeing you at a lot more events. And, in recommending you to people that are coming into the industry and even people that are maybe already in it and unhappy with what they've been doing. So, thanks for your time tonight. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Doing this and all.
00;49;04;24 - 00;49;24;01
Unknown
Thank you. So that's it for conversations with Kush podcast tonight. Please remember to watch my podcast on YouTube and I can be found on all plat, audio platforms including, Apple and Spotify. So that's it for Molly the Kosher and signing off peace.
00;49;24;01 - 00;49;33;07
Unknown
You.