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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
Ep. #191: J.C. Newman The American Toro (w/ Aberlour A’bunadh Cask Strength Scotch, Our First Premium Handmade American Puro, How to Choose the Right Pairing for Your Cigar & Listener Email on Changes to the Lizard Smoking Rotation)
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Gizmo: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast, presented by Fabrica five. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster Senator Pagoda, chef Ricky and Grindr, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some scotch, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 191st. Official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge Lizard gonna be just here once a week. We're gonna smoke a new world cigar tonight. Share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We smoke our first ever American Pure. We discuss how to choose the right pairing for your cigar, and we answer a listener email on changes to the lizard smoking rotation, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy as we pair Avalor Aona single malt Scotch Whiskey with the JC Newman, the American in Toro, an American puro [00:01:00] on the pod tonight, boys. I think that is the first time I've ever said that. It's by JC Newman. It's called The American, and it's a 54 reengage Toro by six inches long.
And I gotta tell you, I am very excited to smoke an all American cigar tonight.
Senator: I gotta tell you, I'm, uh, it was very clever that you didn't tell us this was an American P beforehand. 'cause I don't think many of us would've shown up for this. I didn't, I didn't know that they, I dunno if
Grinder: I'd say it's clever.
I would say it's very intentional. I don't think that, I didn't know that existed, that concept. I was, I was telling, you know, I was, we were talking earlier, I was just like, I didn't, where are they? Where are they sourcing this tobacco from? That's so
Gizmo: I do have the full rundown. Okay. That I'll give you in a second.
But first boys, let's cut this thing. I just really hope there's some, uh,
Senator: New Jersey tobacco in
Gizmo: here from Patterson.
Pagoda: Wasn't the pledge of allegiance to All American? No, no, no, no. There were,
Rooster: there were some components that are, some components, yeah, yeah, yeah. That are, apparently there's other [00:02:00] cigars that are all American.
Yeah. I think ta I had one
Gizmo: backwood black and mild Philly blunts. Well, that's got a very weird musty cold draw. It's a must bomb. Yeah. I'm hoping that it does not translate to the actual smoke.
Chef Ricky: It's so wide open. Mm-hmm.
Gizmo: I, I have a feeling this is gonna smoke like a newspaper.
Chef Ricky: Yeah.
Gizmo: Like 30 minutes. We're gonna be outta here.
Grinder: I hope not. There's, is that a Puerto Rican or Dominican flag on the,
Chef Ricky: the band? That's a Puerto Rican flag. Yeah, that's Puerto Rican. Listen, just, I'm just gonna remind you, I'm Puerto Rican, so take it easy. I know.
Senator: Grinder's like, oh shit. He got me. Lemme put
Grinder: away my bag,
Senator: my, my
Grinder: book of, of, uh, slurs,
Pagoda: even though Chef Ricky looks like a Japanese samurai. Summarize with, with the hair bone on top. You know what that, that is? [00:03:00]
Grinder: Oh, let's not go there.
Chef Ricky: Have a look at him again. Samoan. Have a good look. Samoan, Samoan, Japanese. I, I can see that.
Filipino. Yep, yep, yep. Everything but Puerto Rican. Check, check, check.
Gizmo: But tonight, boys the American. Let's light this thing. It is so wide open. It
Grinder: is.
Gizmo: It's from JC Newman. It's almost too open. 54 ring gauge Toro by six inches long. Very cool story about the cigar. We'll go through that in a minute. As well as the makeup of the ingredients.
And obviously we're celebrating Independence Day, July 4th here in the us For our US listeners, it's a big holiday, kind of kicks off summer. Summer vacations.
Pagoda: Yeah.
Chef Ricky: I think you need a torch lighter for those. Yeah, yeah. No, for this guy you need a cre brulee torch.
Rooster: Oh, creamy. Creamy, sweetness.
Chef Ricky: Yeah, but
Rooster: it
Senator: has like an an [00:04:00] aftertaste.
It's a little odd to
Gizmo: me. Maybe I'll adjust.
Senator: Well, I get that mustiness on the finish, but at least there's sweetness at the front of your palate, so it's better than the cold draw.
Chef Ricky: I don't mind the flavor I'm getting on this right now. Other than that, it's just really open. No, it's not offensive. Yeah, it's really open.
It's almost too wide open. Little resistance. Yeah. Yeah, a little resistance. And I almost wonder if maybe it could have taken a little more humidity, which is weird to say 'cause it's like a hundred degrees today. But
Gizmo: guess so These actually were stored, so these were sent by a listener. Let's first shout out, lizard Seagull sent us this quite some time ago.
I've actually been saving this for our July 4th episode, our Independence Day episode here, uh, on the pod. And if you remember, two years ago we did the EP Cillo Pledge of Allegiance around Independence Day. So I figured let's save the American. We'll do it, uh, for our 4th of July episode. So we have to shout out Wizard Siegel for sending us these cigars, uh, that we could smoke them tonight on the pod.
And by the way, I wanted to tell you the retail price [00:05:00] on these Cigars Boys is 20 bucks a piece. So this is definitely a more expensive cigar than. What I would've thought, uh, would be coming out from JC Newman, New Jersey. Tobacco doesn't come cheap.
Pagoda: No, but there's lots of it. So
Gizmo: there is a lot. Great smoke output so far.
Grinder: Yeah, pretty good. It's a, it's actually fun to smoke. It's like, I kind of like it a little open and just like it know it's plumes of smoke coming out. Yeah,
Pagoda: it is an easy smoke. It's an
Grinder: American experience. Big
Gizmo: cigar, big smoke output. Effortless. Yeah. Yeah.
Chef Ricky: Unlike anything we smoke on this pop,
Gizmo: this is definitely stands on its own as far as I would say, flavor profile Right now, I don't have any comparison points.
I'm getting a very, very rich sweetness. A little bit of that must, maybe a little woody.
Senator: Just a touch. I, I also get saltiness on the finish like a lot.
Chef Ricky: I, [00:06:00] I get a light coffee note and some salt as well. Um, and sweetness kind of, you know, kind of a creamy cafe niches situation with some salt.
Senator: I, I think Cafe Americano would be, uh, more appropriate.
Chef.
Chef Ricky: Well,
Gizmo: that
Chef Ricky: doesn't have any
Gizmo: milk. There's a little creaminess
Chef Ricky: here.
Gizmo: So let's go through the makeup of the tobacco in this cigar. And I, I was pretty impressed on JC Newman's website. You know, a lot of manufacturers have pretty weak web experiences for their consumers, and JC Newman's website might be one of the best.
Across all of the cigar manufacturers up out there. Not only is are they up to date, which most manufacturers are a couple years behind on their website, but there's just a treasure trove of information for nerds like me and I guess some of us in the room, um, who are really, really into this stuff and the ingredients that go in.
So let's talk about the American. They are very proud that this thing was completely [00:07:00] created, made the boxes, the artwork, the everything is American in this cigar. So let's go through the tobacco really quick. We'll go through some, some of the other stuff in a bit. The tobacco wrapper is Florida Sungrown.
Uh, and it's made by a guy named Jeff Borowitz, who is the owner of Corona Cigar Company, and he has a 20 acre farm in Claremont, Florida, where he grows Florida Sungrown tobacco, which is a Roho 99 seed plant. The American is the only cigar in existence with Florida Sungrown wrapper, only one. So, so they buy all the tobacco, right?
So they buy everything from him and they use it for this specific cigar. The binder is Connecticut broadleaf, made by a guy named John Foster, whose great grandfather's great-grandfather began farming land in South Windsor, Connecticut, seven generations. And [00:08:00] more than 200 years later, John Foster's Farm continues to grow, pumpkins corn and premium cigar tobacco on 150 acres in the Connecticut River Valley.
John is one of the premier growers of the famed Connecticut broadleaf tobacco. Which is used as the binder in this cigar. Obviously that's notable as well because we talked about Connecticut River, valley Tobacco, and Connecticut Shade. A lot of that production and growth is moving to Ecuador and other areas of the world, uh, because of the challenges that Connecticut has faced.
So this tobacco in this is still being grown in Connecticut by a guy named John Foster, and there's a couple fillers. Let's talk about those. One is Pennsylvania Amish. This is made by farmers in the Lancaster area. Pennsylvania. Uh, obviously Grindr and I talk about, talk a lot about Pennsylvania and, uh, the Amish folks out there, I didn't know grow tobacco, but apparently they do.
And, uh, they use Pennsylvania Amish tobacco in the filler. And they [00:09:00] also use John Foster's Connecticut Havana in the Filler, which is, uh, a seed that he has that was formally grown in the Connecticut River Valley decades ago, but fell out of favor and stopped being planted until John Foster and Foster Farms resurrected it a decade ago.
So this special age tobacco, they say, is used as the wrapper for JC Newman's Diamond Crown Black Diamond, and is also blended in the filler of our cigar to enhance the complexity of its flavor profile. So those are the four tobaccos that make the cigar up, and all of them are very much American. This is a pepper bomb so far.
Grinder: Maybe not a bomb, but a pepper. Are you guys getting pepper? I'm not
Gizmo: getting any pepper yet. I'm not either. There's nothing spicy about this for me right now. No. I'm getting a little bit of the sweet sauce. Salty. What are you, whatcha tasting
Senator: you getting? That's tomorrow. And that is it for grind today.
Gizmo: I know, I mean, I, I'm, to me this [00:10:00] is, it's uh, you know, it really kind of tastes like creamy coffee, almost like with a side of a very, very creamy cake or dessert.
Like it's just, for me it's sweetness overload right now with a touch for me of wood at the end and a little bit of salt.
Grinder: Get getting the wood, definitely getting this, the creamy like espresso vibe. That's the first time I ever said vibe on this podcast. By the way.
Gizmo: The cake one is actually good. It's like pound cake.
It is. That's exactly it. It's pound cake. It's not like the icing on a cake. It's the cake part of the cake. Yes. Cake batter. Correct.
Pagoda: Yeah. It's, it's so interesting. I, you know, in the beginning I was getting, I was thinking, but I find a little bit of sourness, it's not even sourness. I, it's like condensed milk sweetness.
Um, that's what I was getting at the beginning and now it's like, that is
Senator: definitely not sour.
Pagoda: No, no, I know, but I, I don't know what the right word for it. And then it turned into like a little bit of that and saltiness. Yeah. With a sweetness. Yeah. Maybe [00:11:00] finding a lactic note sometimes. Yeah. So it's,
Rooster: the sweetness seems unnatural on the cigar.
It's like, it's not a naturally like, like as if it's almost like flavored.
Gizmo: Well, that's what I said on the light. The first thing I got. It was, it seemed like there was a bit of unnatural sweetness here, so I don't wanna say that it's flavored. No. It kind of gives me that vibe that the, um, what's that Fuente, that new Fuente little guy?
The bullseye. The eye of the bowl. Eye of the bowl, yeah. It gives me that kind of, especially on the light that gives me
Chef Ricky: a little bit of that kind of vibe. For me, the eye of the bull had all that sweetness on the tip. Like to me, that was favored. It was
Senator: painted onto the tip basically, as soon as your tongue touched it, without it even being lit, you knew that there, it's almost like
Chef Ricky: the, the tobacco, the wrapper absorbs some simple syrup or something like the creme
Rooster: brulee cigar.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. Right. I think for here, maybe there's just, it's a tobacco. We don't smoke often, so we're not. Too familiar with what we're finding? I don't find it artificially sweet. Neither do I. Okay. Not yet. No. Well, I'm glad you're saying that I'm getting, because I
Gizmo: don't [00:12:00] want this to sound like an indictment. I'm enjoying the cigar.
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know anything about that, so I don't want it to come across that I'm, yeah. You know, saying something negative about the cigar. I just don't know how to properly describe how that sweetness is hitting my palette.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. I, if I were to knock it for anything right now, and obviously it's gonna develop, I think the draw is making it, it's making the smoke come through and feel somewhat thin.
I wish the smoke was a little bit richer, a little creamier, the flavor's creamy. But the smoke itself is, you know, while it's very present in the room, it's not a viscous smoke. It's not a creamy smoke.
Rooster: The wrapper is really thin and I have multiple cracks. Hmm. It's really, really a tender wrapper.
Grinder: It's, uh, I think as mentioned it, it is igniting, like Yeah.
It's going, we're going through this pretty quick.
Gizmo: Yeah. I mean, we're only 10, 11 minutes into the episode and we've already got about three quarters of an inch of ash here.
Chef Ricky: Yeah.
Gizmo: So for a Toro at 20 bucks, I feel like this is smoking pretty quickly. I'm just gonna
Senator: say, uh, and I, [00:13:00] maybe I'm the outlier in the room.
I'm actually liking this so far, and I, oh, I like the cigar. Probably the biggest skeptic. The flavor is not
Rooster: bad.
Senator: Yeah. For me, the flavor, it's, it's both sweet and savory. Yeah. Like I get the sweet notes up front and then I get like that salty, more savory finish, which I like. I feel like we've talked about a number of cigars that have that kind of, uh, balance that we end up enjoying and it's unique in, in.
The type of notes that we're getting, even though we're familiar with sweet and savory. Um, it's mine at least is not to open the draw. I honestly have a perfect draw. The cigars burning razors sharp, the ash is, you know, holding on really well. So the construction, at least on mine is very good. So, you know, so far I'm actually impressed.
Worth $20. I mean, we'll, we will see at the end. But yeah,
Chef Ricky: I will say the Ashe is a super bright white, very clean ash. Yeah,
Gizmo: I'm enjoying it so far. I'm finding this to be very easy to smoke. Uh, you know, every draw is, is [00:14:00] got something interesting going on. I do think it's smoking a little fast,
Senator: but the thing that just shocks me the most is hearing that this is an American P and it is smokeable.
I'll be honest. I mean, when you said that, I literally like, who needs Cuban swords? Thought about how do I like, yeah. I thought about like, how do I leave here? Like someone call me and say there's an emergency because the fact, fact, I love that he'd
Gizmo: rather have an emergency somewhere than smoke. Smoke American Piero.
Oh, for sure.
Senator: I, I just say that because a true patriot, none of us have ever heard of an American Perot. Yeah. So it's like if American Tobacco were that great, you'd think that, you know, it'd be used a whole lot more. But now smoking this so far, this is very smokeable. We're getting distinct notes that we like.
I don't know why American tobacco isn't used more, if this is possible.
Gizmo: Yeah. Well, I think it was being used quite a bit and still is. The Connecticut broadleaf is being used, but I think some of this other stuff Yeah, but the, the binder
Senator: and filler of almost every cigar is from anywhere but America. Yeah, exactly.
They use
Rooster: it for a lot [00:15:00] of rappers. Exactly. Even, even Davidov, their grand crew, I think they use, uh, Connecticut wrappers, but have never seen a binder and filler produced in Pennsylvania. And uh, where's the other place?
Gizmo: Connecticut. Connecticut, yeah. Yeah. The one is the foster family. The other's Pennsylvania, Amish.
Grinder: There's gotta be some economics to that too. Cost of land. Cost of labor.
Senator: I mean, Nick Malillo is obsessed with the state of Connecticut, unlike anyone on this planet. And even he doesn't use Connecticut tobacco in his like binder or filler of his cigars. They're, they're wrappers that he uses. So I'm just shocked.
This actually is so far Good. Yeah. You know the
Pagoda: Pledge of Allegiance did have tobacco from Pennsylvania. A small percentage. Yeah, it did a little bit, yeah.
Gizmo: Alright, boy. So I wanna read a note from Lizard Siegel who sent these cigars to us. He sent a printed out note as well. If you remember, lizard Siegel has written us quite a bit.
We just gave an update a couple episodes ago about his, uh, successful prostate surgery. We talked about prostate cancer because, [00:16:00] uh, lizard Segal. Um, so thanks to him for all that and also for sending us these cigars. So here's his note. It says, guys, one of the things I love about your podcast is the history of things, be it the cigar, the company.
Or a spirit history. I'm sending you a booklet on some interesting things about the cigars. I sent the American brand. He talks about the owner of Corona Cigar and that is the place I've offered to take any of you if and when you visit Florida. My treat for a cigar and drink other pages in the booklet are in are interesting and how, why they do things for the brand.
Jeff, the owner of Corona Cigars is now at five or six stores and one is not too far from the factory. The JC Newman factory in Ibor City, Florida. The one I usually go to is in the Dr. Phillips area of Orlando. I've also mentioned in previous, in a previous post about a visit to the JC Newman factory to see how they do things.
It's only open during the week and they do offer tours. Very interesting. And not only the process, but also the building and giz. They also offer a [00:17:00] cigar rolling experience. Since you are now a master roller after your experience at La Aurora, I thought you might enjoy this. Thanks always for a great podcast.
Tuesday is a highlight for me. Lizard Siegel. That's awesome. So thanks to him for sending that and with it, I guess the folks at Corona Cigar sent us a note with the cigars that said, enjoy boys. Nice. Which is cool. And then I was also sent as, as Lizard Segal mentioned, a little book. I would say it's.
Three and a half, four inches by six inches. A little printed book written by Drew Newman, which is the American story of the JC Newman Cigar Company, and all the different people that have their hand in working with JC Newman cigars. So, I mean, there's, they talk about inspectors, they talk about the history of tobacco, they talk about the people who made the tobacco in the cigars.
The, the folks I just read out. They [00:18:00] talk about the box maker, A guy named Miguel Cabrera, who's also in Florida. He wor, he works out of millennium wood boxes in Miami. So not only are those American cigar boxes made in America by American workers, but all of the materials used to make them come from the United States as well.
So they are very serious about this being an All American product. They talk about the artists who are involved in this. Um, they are very, very proud. Of the American part of the JC Newman story, of course, which has spanned many generations. And opening the book is actually a quote from Julius Caesar Newman, the founder of JC Newman.
He says, I could not help but realize more than ever what a great country this is. It filled me more than ever with deep pride to be an American. So that was the inspiration to create this cigar and find tobacco from America and put it in it. And here we are tonight smoking it. So pretty cool. If you guys wanna check this out after we're done recording, it's a pretty cool little book here.
Hmm. [00:19:00] From, uh, JC Newman. Thanks.
Chef Ricky: Thanks, Siegel. Yeah, that's awesome. Awesome. I I, it smelling here is really intense. No, it smells like really sweet, like toasted bread in here. I don't even need to bring the cigar to my nose to get the burn line. And from what I understand, that's coming from the Havana seed.
So anything that you guys ever experienced before.
Senator: Not in its totality, right? Like there are parts of it that are very familiar notes, I think I would imagine for all of us. But I, you know, the funny thing actually though, it's really the mustiness that's like the only thing that's thrown me off because I'm not getting any, if you think about it, like obviously the sweet notes that we're talking about, we've gotten plenty of other cigars before the salty, savory notes.
You know, Woody, we've gotten that a zillion times. So for me it's this mustiness that's in the background with all of that that is like what has made this distinct and throws me off. But outside of that, I mean, [00:20:00] they're all common notes. I don't hear anybody saying anything like we don't often get in cigars, right?
I
Rooster: mean, what's amazing is that you can get such flavor notes out of American tobacco that is barely used in anything that we know of. You know, I mean it's, they shouldn't, they should make more cigars.
Gizmo: We should start growing some in our backyards. The problem is, like Grindr said, I wonder if that's, you know, causing this cost, this to labor to be a $20 Toro.
Oh,
Senator: as soon as you said everything was made here. I mean, the labor alone, think about it. I mean, we have labor laws. I mean, I'm sorry, like these countries don't Correct.
Gizmo: So these cigars come in boxes of 10 wooden boxes of 10 cigars. And like I said, it was handcrafted there. They're there. Check that out.
That's nice. It's a very nice presentation in these, like I said, they're about 20 bucks a piece and they come what looks like in six different sizes. So I'll go from the bottom up. The rib [00:21:00] robusto is 50 by four and a half. The double rib Robusto 56 by five and a half. The Toro we have in our hand is right in the middle, 54 by six, the torpedo 52 by six and an eighth, the Churchill 47 by seven.
And finally, the president, which is identical in size to the Churchill, but comes, I'm sure you guys have seen these cigars. They're, I've seen them at different shops. They come in like a glass tubo with a American kind of band at the bottom ceiling. It, uh, that's called the President 47 by seven as well.
Same size as the Churchill. So that is the complete line and the story about the American, if anybody's looking for JC Newman history, we did that. Uh, when we reviewed the Julius Caesar cigar, which we'll talk about that rating later, the shark. Uh, which I, I don't remember how it did, so I'm looking forward to, that was great.
Well, looking that, I think it was very, very good was, yeah. Yeah. So this is the second one we're doing from j Newman on the pod tonight. You know, as I'm talking quite a bit here, it's um, it's [00:22:00] keeping, keeping it lit and keeping it going has kind of been a challenge. Are you guys finding that at all or has it been easy for you?
Not at all. 'cause you guys are, have no,
Senator: no re lights, no touchups. Yeah, I'm just talking too much.
Gizmo: It was really good just talking too much I guess.
Rooster: It is kind of burning fast though, that's about it.
Gizmo: Yeah, for sure.
Rooster: The
Grinder: wood. There's definitely a woodiness. I, that's what I was saying. I think there is, yeah. I don't get the must, I only got the mustiness on the cold draw, but I don't get, I don't get it on the, on the smoke, but definitely wood.
It's sweetening up a little bit as for me. 'cause I, I was getting, you know, the pepper in the beginning, but it's, it's mellow out for sure. But I never got the
Gizmo: sweetness on the tip. Oh, I'm getting a ton of sweetness all the way through. Actually, to me, the sweetness is overpowering. What I believe that mustiness is like, it's kind of pushing the, the mustiness out the door.
It's just all sweetness with a little bit of salt and a little bit of wood. For me,
Grinder: the retro hail is intoxicating.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. [00:23:00] Gets really, uh, toasty. Like toasted bread. Very heavy. Yeah. Toasted nuts.
Gizmo: So boys, let's talk about some news before we get to our pairing. First up, very excited. This has been many years in the making.
I am thrilled. I'm sure you guys are as well. The bond Roberts line D number one, the 1 0 9 that we smoked. Uh, some of us smoked in the room when we were, when we sat with Rob and Hamlet. I think a month to four, four to six weeks ago, the 1 0 9 has finally been released. A long awaited cigar. It's brilliant.
It comes in boxes of 25 and also in 50 caps. That's the best part. So I ordered two 50 cabs, so our international listeners outside of Hong Kong, so anybody in the world except in Hong Kong can go to CH cigars.com and order these cigars. Right now. Just click on the Bon Roberts button and uh, you'll be able to order these cigars.
They're priced right around 21 bucks. [00:24:00] That's the MSRP on 'em.
Senator: I think his email said the 50 cabs, once that run is out, they're out. Mm-hmm. They're not, they don't have nearly as many of those basically as the 25 count boxes. So if you want those, it sounds like you gotta get 'em now.
Gizmo: And it's, it seems like, from what Rob's saying, this cigar.
Is only going to be released every few years. This is not going to be something that like the Trinity Robusto, any of those mofo cigars, the, the Piot Dedos from Fabrica five. This one is going to be released in batches. So if you want this cigar, if you want to, if you liked what we said about it, our experience on that podcast, definitely go and order some cigars.
Um, and uh, you know, let us know what you think. But I can't wait. I ordered two 50 caps for myself. I can't wait to have those in the top five. More to
Senator: go.
Gizmo: Correct to match your Lucy uh, collection. So, uh, one more time for folks. The 1 0 9 head is, it's a hybrid between the typical round cap of what we would call a parejo, any [00:25:00] cigar that kind of has a normal head on it.
And the pointed tip of a be cosa. So it's right in between those two. That's the 1 0 9 head. That's what makes that cigar special. And it's a 50 ring gauge by seven and a quarter. And what's important about the, uh, the 1 0 9 is the parus luan from Cuba used to come as a 1 0 9 shape, and then they changed it to the double re busto that it is now.
So, or excuse me, the double corona that it is now. So if you like that idea, you like that, uh, size and shape, definitely go pick up some bond. Roberts one oh nines. Boys, it is time for our next surprise, our pairing tonight. Senator recommended this. It's the aor una space side single malt scotch Whiskey.
Recommended is not a fair term. I have never tried it. Okay. I've never tried. That's true, that's true. But you missed detail that I had a little bit of a panic attack about today, Lisa.
Senator: I know nothing about it [00:26:00] other than it's very popular. People do love it, and of everything that Avalor makes, it's like highly sought after.
So I've always wanted to try it, but this is literally the first time I've ever tried it.
Gizmo: So what's wild about this that I got a little nervous about today, because we kind of stay a little lower than this, quite a bit lower. The original cask strength of this bottle that we have tonight is 121.6 proof, or 60.8%.
Alcohol by volume.
Pagoda: Alright, I'm passing on this.
Gizmo: So normally, you know, for reference, for folks out there who are not dialed into a BV and proof, we're generally in the range of between, I would say 40 and 45%, 80 and 90 proof. Yeah, I think that's bourbon. I think we touch a little higher on that. Mescal's
Chef Ricky: gotten a little high too, so, yeah.
But I tell you this, this stuff is delicious. The flavor is great. Like, and I'm, I'm happy that it's as [00:27:00] hot as it is
TEAM AMERICA: at the
Chef Ricky: end because it, it helps reset the palate between the sweetness. Yeah, that's a nice way
Gizmo: to put it.
Chef Ricky: Between the sweetness on the cigar and the sweetness on this scotch. If there were no heat there.
The, the pairing would be too much, but I think with the heat, it, it helps a lot. No ice for you buddy? No ice for you. No ice. No ice. Oh my Lord. No ice. He's
Rooster: the only one without ice in
Senator: the whole room. Nothing. Well gizmo right now. So I think all of us started at least took a sip with no ice. If anyone could see gizmo's face right now.
Oh dude, dude, that's, that's, it's like he's doing like a spicy wing that's harsh or hot sauce competition. My eyes, no, my eyes
Chef Ricky: are watering. You're like an American at a real Mexican restaurant. This is so,
Senator: it's so perfect for today. It is. I mean, this thing drinks like a high, high proof bourbon. Yeah, it's
Grinder: boozy guys.
Senator: But the flavor is great. I mean, I had one sip neat. It was way, way too strong for me. But with some ice, [00:28:00] you get the flavor without the heat and then the flavor's delicious. I don't know, man. I,
Grinder: I hate to say it. Even, even with the ice, it's still. The, he, the, the fire's overpowering. I agree. I agree
Senator: with that.
Then you gotta add some more ice. Maybe I should drink faster.
Chef Ricky: It's gonna sound weird, but I think with the ice, because you're diluting a lot of the, the flavor profile you're going to, it's gonna feel like you're getting more heat, in my opinion. Mine is ice. A lot out of ice in there. You need to get a pagoda ice.
Uh, yeah,
Senator: just put a lot in it. I'm serious tion. I mean, mine, you know, this tastes like alo 12 in terms of like the body or strength that it has once there's ice. So
Grinder: Yeah. So you take the, the 60 A BV and bring it down to 40. Correct.
Gizmo: 61%. Man, that is pretty wild. I, um, I mean, I guess here's my question and I'm gonna throw this out to the room and I'm, I'm really throwing this out to the scotch and bourbon and, and the whiskey enthusiast in our listening audience. [00:29:00] What I wanna understand is why. This cask strength spirit is, why do people chase this flavor profile?
I don't get why this is preferable to something that is easier to drink, and it as it relates to cigars, something that pairs a little easier with cigars.
Senator: One word flavor. It's no different than people who per who pursue a really full body cigar, right? Like people who love alga, love a padron 90th, like that's a, you know, segment of cigar smokers that just wants to be smacked in the face with flavor.
And in bourbons and any other, you know, whiskey, those higher proofed, uh, spirits, people are looking for a ton of flavor. And so, you know what I at least respect, you know, I'm not one of these folks, but what I do respect is, you know, they're not consuming a significant quantity of this [00:30:00] stuff. So like a bottle is, some of this high proof stuff I'm sure lasts that person a very long time.
They're looking for a glass, maybe two. I think, you know, how many cigars we smoke that lends itself to much more than just a glass or two that we're gonna drink and pair with it. And so I think that's why for us, something that is, you know, super hot can be off-putting, but I get why people. You know, might pursue it even though I don't, but I think flavor is the number one factor.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. You're spot on with that. Uh, you know, I, I think flavor and authenticity, I think people that are really seeking the experience, that experience of what's it like coming out of the still before it gets adulterated with water and brought down the, you know, quote unquote drinkable proofs or whatnot. I know in the agave world, it's often sought after, you know, so that you could get the true tir of, of that spirit, of that, of that harvest, if you will, because sometimes a lots change and whatnot.
Um, so it's something, you know, and that's why [00:31:00] certain mescals are, are not distilled, you know, you don't see many mescals distilled to 40% for that reason, uh, because they want that agave to shine through. So I think yeah, flavor a thousand percent. And then just kind of authenticity and if you're an enthusiast about, you know, scotch in general, it's something that you.
You would look for, but I think the flavor's there, it's very, very, very rich.
Pagoda: I think a lot of the bourbon drinkers made like this for sure. Yeah, I agree.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. Yeah. Especially those that look for like bookers or wellers or any of those high proof.
Gizmo: Yeah. So boys, the price on this bottle was 110 bucks.
That's a bargain. Yeah, that's actually
Chef Ricky: a good, I mean, for a high proof spirit, think about it this way, if you're, I wasn't complaining about the price, by the way, you're gonna add enough ice to bring that down to 40 proof, so you're getting 20% more scotch. It's true. Right? So it's, it's not a bad deal when you think about it.
Pagoda: You know what, I really love the, what would the avalor we had done earlier that was really good. The 12. The 12, yeah. Or 12. Yeah, 12 is great. And [00:32:00] that, that just works fine for me. Meaning I, I don't need to step up to a higher proof level for sure.
Gizmo: Well, I'm hoping that my palate adjusts because I want to give this a fair rating based on flavor.
But please, and not being a wimp with heat, you know, please add some ice. I will do that. Can you guys pass it around?
Chef Ricky: I do love that. It's not super Petey. I, I I take heat and flavor over pea and
Senator: Yeah. I mean that's one thing with Avalor. Uh, this is aged exclusively in sherry casks and, um, avalor is probably the most sherry forward scotch you'll find, period.
It's also a space side, so it, it's, you're not gonna get that peat.
Chef Ricky: So can you explain that? 'cause I'm not a scotch guy, so,
Grinder: well, there's just, just different regions in, in Scotland where they, where they, they make this stuff and, um, the, uh, space side is not known for its peat. Like, you know, if you look at like a lavo and where it's made, they use peat in the water.
TEAM AMERICA: Mm. [00:33:00]
Grinder: And that's what gives it the flavor profile. Got it. So they add the peat through the water osmosis and that that's what gives its flavor and space side. They don't do that because they don't have peat. Makes sense.
Gizmo: So my question on high proof spirits, and I wanna go back to that for a second. So I'm letting my ice kind of do what it's gonna do.
Is this what you would say for someone who drinks a lot of single, single malt scotch regularly, is this something that is an acquired taste that you're kind of chasing to that higher proof level to get to the its purest form? Is it like, am I missing something? 'cause I feel like I drink enough scotch, you know, like I'm trying to get to the point of understanding, pulling this out and sipping it neat and really, really enjoying the spirit.
Senator: Yeah, I mean, I think like anything when you go down the rabbit hole of scotch, no different than cigars. Other types of spirits wines, [00:34:00] you wanna kind of figure out what the spectrum looks like, like how far it goes in terms of strength and flavor and all these peat, all these different things. So I do think it's natural when you're, you know, getting into scotch and you get familiar with kind of all the like.
Entry, you know, 12 year stuff as you work your way up. I mean, all of those expressions as you go up, you know, 14, 15, 18, 20, they typically get hotter. Um, they have more flavor, but like a lot of them, I mean, I, I've had like a 30 year single malt that was like super hot, like probably not far from 60 proof like this is, but it's super flavorful and you know, when I had it, I said, this is not for me, but I get why for some other people and I think, you know, some hit that wall and say like, this is where I want to stay, and others kind of revert back.
So, um, I mean, I'm not surprised. I think it's just [00:35:00] kind of natural to. Test, you know, how far you can kind of go.
Gizmo: Is there anything you could tell us about the, uh, spirit that we're drinking here, Senator?
Senator: So here it just says, uh, you know, they handpicked, uh, Spanish cherry casts aged a hundred percent in cherry Oak.
It says a buna means the original in Gaelic. Uh, they make every bottle as they would've done a hundred years ago in batches with no chill filtering. And this gets to the authenticity piece that that chef was talking about. It says, una is as close as you, you can get to tasting a dr at original cast strength at our distillery, just as our founder James Fleming would've done in 1879.
Um, and so I think, you know, there's a lot of merit to that, like. It's, you know, kind of this homage to the past of like, this is how spirits used to be consumed. Yeah. You know, they weren't brought down to the, you know, 40% that we're used to. Maybe
Gizmo: that's another good answer to my question is it's the history, you know, component of this, you know, going back to when it was originally designed and distilled and created, that's how they were drinking it.[00:36:00]
Chef Ricky: I would say when you visit a distillery, one of the most exciting moments of that visit is. Either tasting the spirit straight out of the still and or tasting it straight out of the cask, because usually that's when the water gets added, is after the cask, after the aging, uh, to bring it down to proof. So that's usually an experience that's reserved for the actual visit to the distillery.
So the fact that you could buy this bottle and get an idea of what that's like, that's a pretty awesome, it's a pretty awesome thing. So
Grinder: I think it, I think it's interesting, I'm just connecting the dots here. Like when you go to Scotland, you get, you get a dr, like you drink it in drams, like a weed Dr.
Right. Those are small, those are less than an ounce. If that's the way they, they've, I don't know this, I'm hypothesizing here, but like maybe there's something to say about, about the way they, they distilled the scotch and the way they drank it and that's why that the weed Dr. Persists so, so strongly because they drank a lot of high proof scotch,
Senator: you know?
Yeah. [00:37:00] I think that's gotta be spot on. Yeah. I mean, ages ago that's exactly how they would've consumed it. Yeah.
Gizmo: After a few sips. Now with the ice, it's definitely gotten to a point for me that it's, you know, it's not as hot. Obviously my palate's adjusted a little bit, but it, it is incredibly rich in flavor, excellent flavor on it.
It's, it's, it opened up a lot,
Grinder: like from the first sip. Well, I, I also had it neat. Right? But there's something to say about just letting it
Senator: sit for a little bit. The thing that amazes me about it is, you know, my experience with Avalor has been the 12 and the 16, I believe. And, you know, the 12, I would consider one of the lightest kind of 12 year expressions that we drink.
Um, and so I remember when I used to drink that a lot, I kind of just assumed that Avalor, that was just their style, that like, it, it, they didn't have an offering that would be a fuller bodied experience. The 16 [00:38:00] has more body, um. But this is so full flavored and rich that, you know, it's just cool for me to see, like they have the range to be able to produce something for I think any, you know, scotch or whiskey lover's palette.
So, um, you know, I give them credit and I think they've done it well. The fact that, you know, I'm certainly not the type of consumer that pursues a 60%, uh, percent spirit, but I actually think the flavor in this is really enjoyable. It's just got more heat than I would normally pursue. Is a testament to, you know, their product.
Chef Ricky: I think something you always focus on when we look at the story and the, the text on these bottles, you know, it's not often that people nail the flavor profile and here they main, they mention p prey, lean, and citrus. And I, I think those are two very clear flavors that come through very easily. Um, and I love it for that reason, especially with a cigar.
Grinder: I couldn't nail praline with
Chef Ricky: no if, if you like
Senator: put it in,
Chef Ricky: in my face. Well, that they
Senator: say [00:39:00] on the aroma, on the, I think brown
Chef Ricky: sugar essentially. Right? Like if you just isolate brown sugar, caramelize brown sugar. Nice.
Senator: On the taste it says full with black cherries, ginger and dark chocolate. The thing that surprised me, I actually don't get that much cherry, I don't get chocolate.
Oh, I get chocolate on the finish. You, yeah. So the one thing I really like in this, I, I, I've definitely said this on other pods, but. Macallan 12. Sherry is like one of the only scotches that on the finish I get a little bit of dark chocolate and it's such a like delicious and satisfying note. 'cause you don't really get that normally in a single malt.
This to me, has that on the finish, which I really, really like.
Chef Ricky: So if I let it sit on my palate, which is a little hard to do with this knee 'cause it's so hot.
Senator: That's, um, that's also probably why it's a little harder to heat. I have some ice behind.
Chef Ricky: I I do get the chocolate. I do get some chocolate there.
Yeah.
Gizmo: So [00:40:00] boys, I can't believe I'm saying this, but we are well into the second, third. Yeah. Of the JC Newman, the American. It's going fast. Fast. We're flying through this. Yeah. How's the flavor right now for you guys?
Pagoda: For me, it's been reasonably consistent. It hasn't evolved into anything more than what I was getting after the first couple of, uh, puffs, you know, it just evolved into a, a little bit of the sweetness and a little bit of the saltiness in the back, and it's worked really well.
Uh, for me. I've been really enjoying it and it leaves a very pleasant coat on my palette and, uh, I, I'm really enjoying it. Uh, I wouldn't have thought I would've enjoyed this this much. It's been pretty good.
Rooster: The creaminess and the woodiness has come through throughout. Right. And also the sweet note is still still coming through.
Still coming through. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not getting that pepper that Grindr was mentioning at all. Like, it, it, it has not come through at all for me.
Grinder: I think, I mean, the pepper for me, I think I mentioned earlier, was primarily in the [00:41:00] first three quarters of an inch for me. But then it's really mellowed out, um, still not getting sweetness, but I'm getting like the woody cream for sure.
Yeah,
Gizmo: mine is its sweet bomb right now. I'm surprised you're not getting Yeah, I don't know.
Chef Ricky: I'm in, I'm in Grindr's camp right now. I'm not getting a whole lot of sweetness. I wonder if it's a scotch that's now kind of overtaking my palate, but you're still getting it,
Gizmo: so I am getting it like immensely, like almost too much.
Chef Ricky: Yeah.
Senator: I, I'm shocked. Yeah. No, my, my experience is the flavor profile, like pagoda said, has been relatively consistent throughout. I just think in the second, third. The savoriness has dialed up a little bit. The sweetness has dialed back just a little bit. So I think, like I would've said, the first third leaned heavily.
It was a lot more sweet than it was savory. And I think the second third is now just a little bit more savory than it is. Sweet. And I'm curious what's gonna happen in the final third?
Gizmo: So, for me, it's definitely all sweetness. Right now. I [00:42:00] wish it was a little more savory 'cause I feel like I'm chewing on candy like too long right now, or chewing on that cake too long.
Like I want it to kind of chill out and move to savory. Uh, the thing that's saving it right now is the salt for me. The, the little salt at the end. That's what's saving it, um, as far as the flavor profile. But yeah, definitely very sweet. So we'll see how, uh, how it develops into the final third.
Chef Ricky: I gotta say throughout the burn has been great.
Construction's awesome. The ash builds a lovely, uh, it's
Pagoda: yeah. Mean overall. Like you hand anyone the cigar think uh, he'll be at least able to enjoy Yeah. Smoking it if nothing else. 'cause it's a very easy smoke, you know, you put it in. Yeah. It's, it's, it's been great.
Rooster: Yeah. It, it's a, it's a real, like a medium smoke.
It's not, not overpowering in any, any, any way.
Senator: I agree. Medium.
Rooster: It's kind, it's low, medium, I would say low. Yeah, you're right. Kind of like mild to medium. Yeah.
Gizmo: I think anyone could pick up this cigar [00:43:00] and, and you know, and very experienced smoker or someone that's never smoked a cigar before and find something good about it.
Senator: Mm-hmm. I agree. May maybe mild medium in strength, but in flavor. Firmly. Medium. Medium, medium bodied. Yeah, very accessible though. Mi mild
Gizmo: plus.
Senator: Mild plus.
Gizmo: Oh boy. Or medium minus. Medium minus. So speaking of gizmo data there, with the plus reference, I have to do a little self accountability. You know, we take these ratings and everything very seriously, boys.
And I realize that on the Opus X Auto episode, the re robusto we did two weeks ago, I did the math wrong on the lizard rating. Oh my goodness. This, this could be grounds for dismissal. I was telling everyone, including the listeners two weeks ago that it was a 6.8 for lizard rating and in fact it was a 6.60 boy, two points lower than we actually said it was.
So it actually ended up at a 66, [00:44:00] not a 68. So were you,
Grinder: were you corrected by a listener?
Gizmo: No, I was corrected by myself when I was putting it in the spreadsheet. Oh, and I realized that I was saying it wrong. Did some Excel
Grinder: formulas
Gizmo: there, correct? Yeah. The
Pagoda: Sergeant of Arms is very disappointed. I'm sorry, I think I might have missed that episode.
Gizmo: You weren't here, but you could be disappointed anyway. No, I'm just kidding. That's a little self-accountability. It happens very rarely, but we take these things very seriously around here and uh, I understand if, uh, the group is, it's a
Senator: lot of refunds you're gonna be issuing to people who went out and bought that cigar with that 6.8.
Had they only known it was only a 6.6?
Chef Ricky: Yeah, that, that's two, that's two errors. Uh, you're talking
Rooster: millions. I. Had,
Chef Ricky: oh yeah. I don't know if it aired yet, but the, uh, the spirit that we raid, the Florida Comedy team two weeks after originally rating it,
Senator: that has aired. Yes. At least to make up for it. You did update the website.
Gizmo: I did. The ratings sheet is finally updated again, so that next time I
Senator: won't recommend something that's not on the website. That should be on the [00:45:00] website.
Gizmo: Yeah. We ended up now rating twice the, the liquor pairing. That's my bad. But yes, that is updated. Um, and, uh, is accurate. And, uh, you know, I wanna tell listeners too, if you look at the ratings guide on the site, uh, I don't know if some folks missed this, but underneath the actual table of all the ratings are the calculations of individual scores for all cigars, for new world cigars and for qubit cigars.
So there's actually three columns below that that keeps it all the way to the, you know, first episode. I update all those data points so you can see how folks, you know, rate everything, um, in each category. So let's go on to another news story, boys. I think, uh, senator's gonna be floored by this one. Peter James has announced that they're discontinuing their leather travel humidors.
I
Chef Ricky: saw that.
Gizmo: And, uh, I don't, did we talk about this on air when we had, when you had the issue with the returns? Well, we both had the issue. [00:46:00] I remember that. Uh, yeah. Did we talk about it? We, we might
Senator: have,
Gizmo: let's recap for the listeners. So I would say this is what, middle of last year, 24. Probably something like that.
Maybe going on a year or something like that. There was a sale for Peter James cases, and Senator and I both took advantage of it. The cases came in and I, I know you've had Peter James cases in the past. That was my, no,
Senator: I, I actually hadn't, uh, the, the lizard who had a Peter James Case probably the longest was bam.
And beautiful quality leather. Supple, nice patina over time. You exactly how a really high quality leather product should age. And so when they had the sale, my, my problem with them always in the past has just been the price point. I mean, sure the quality's great, but like you can find quality leather products for way less than that.
So I've just thought that they were a little aggressive with the, the price point. They had this great sale. So I'm like, okay, great. I'm gonna get a, what I feel is a fair price [00:47:00] for a really nice quality product. And we got these in the mail, and this is probably the shittiest quality leather I've ever felt in my life.
Gizmo: And you and I both independently came to that conclusion. I said, Senator, I'm sending mine back. I hate this thing. You opened yours and you felt the same. The same. It was, it was
Senator: atrocious. For sure. It was horrible. So then the wild thing is we send them back for a return, and I had like, even forgot about, you know, I just assume I was refunded on my credit card for it.
And like a month later I realized like I, I don't know if I ever got refunded for it. So I'm like, let me just check and there's no refund on my credit card statements over that, uh, for that past month. So I email them no response for like, probably like two weeks time. And so it got so bad. I'm like, all right, well what, what else am I supposed to do?
So I contacted my credit card company and basically had them charge it back. And then I get an email from like Peter James, like [00:48:00] two weeks after, I've already had my credit card company charge it back. And they're like, oh, uh, I guess we'll refund you, you know, for the order, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, too little, too late.
I've been waiting a month and a half to get a simple refund. It's like they do this every single day. You buy a product, someone's unhappy. They, they issue the refund. So. Just the process was very shady. And, um, then there was all this talk that they were in financial troubles, which this all checked out.
Yep. And now they're done. Suppose so
Gizmo: in addition to them discontinuing the cigar cases, they're all, they're also going to be discontinuing any cigar lighter purchases. And then they are only going to have their hydro lock, I guess, some sort of cigar humid or hydro lock. Then they have select furniture pieces and some cigars in their collection.
You know, they, they do have Peter James cigars as well, but for anyone out there who's not convinced by Senator and my story, you can go right now to their website and [00:49:00] you could purchase the remaining stock of these cases that we're talking about discounted down from $1,480 to 36% off at $945.
Senator: What a steal.
What a steal. Even the Russian?
Rooster: No, but the ones that you guys got, and I, I got one too, and I have it. It wasn't nearly as much. No,
Senator: that was the cheaper one.
Rooster: That was like, maybe we paid like one, we paid one
Senator: something I think in retails for like 300. Yeah. Yeah.
Gizmo: So the one that's on their website available now is 1,480 bucks.
I think it's a little bit better quality than the one we had, but I hope so. It's, but that's, God forbid you get it. It doesn't work out my point. Huge price Delta. You
Senator: have to pay that for a quality leather cigar case. I mean, when they used to sell their good quality cases years ago that BAM bought, I remember looking at them at the time, I'm almost certain that they retailed for like $500.
The price of leather has not doubled or more than doubled over that period of time. It's absurd. Tariffs. Yeah. [00:50:00] Yeah. What you
Pagoda: talking about? It's tariffs. No, but they've always been pricier than other companies. Uh, selling cigar cases. So
Rooster: they even make furniture. Oh really? And cigars. They make like leather chairs.
Like you can order a couch and a five pack bustos.
Gizmo: So boys, here's another new story from Half Wheel. I found this one interesting. David Off's revenue. Was flat in 2024, over 2023. But with that being said, the cigar production dropped by 10 million cigars, so their revenue was the same, but they produced 10 million cigars less.
So obviously that's accounting for price increases very much in line with what we've talked about with Haos. Not, you know, we have a lot of complaints and qualms with Haos for sure, but I was pretty surprised to see that. So it generated $663 million US in revenue in 20 20 24, and that's a nearly 1% increase compared to 2023.
And like I said, [00:51:00] they produced 38 and a half million cigars at their production facilities in the Dominican Republic Nicaragua. And in 2023 they produced almost 50 million, 48.8 million cigars produced in 2023. So, pretty wild to see how the industry's moving there. Obviously the pricing thing is helping, uh, a lot of manufacturers are taking advantage of this price opportunity, you know, pushing the consumers a little further, a little further producing less and maintaining your revenue.
So unfortunately it seems like the. Day of inexpensive cigars from some of these high-end manufacturers is over. You know it, Davidoff is getting very expensive.
Rooster: Well, pagoda spent like a hundred grand just on Dominican s
Pagoda: Listen, I'm really upset that they've run out of those. They need to get back into some good cigar production.
Gizmo: I'll tell you, there's one cigar that I actually am anticipating from [00:52:00] Doff. Not that I don't like doff, I mean, it must be said doff. As far as new world manufacturers go on, this podcast might be one of the highest average rated manufacturers.
We've probably done 7, 8, 10 of their cigars. You know, in our time doing this podcast, it's all, they've all rated very well. There's no question about that. But the one cigar that I am hoping is coming soon is the New Chef's Edition. I. Every time I've had that cigar. I had one a few months ago. I have one maybe once or twice a year.
That cigar from 2021 was brilliant. I'm really hoping that that cigar makes a return. 'cause that is something I think about. Yeah, they're due for one a lot. Yeah. And it's been what they released them what? Every four to five years usually? Yeah, it's about right.
Grinder: 2016 was the first one
Pagoda: I just saw. Smile on.
Uh, chef summarize. 2013. This was great. 13. Summarize
Senator: Chef.
Rooster: 13, 14.
Senator: I think I'll just say though, I mean, I'm worried about the price. Yeah,
Rooster: that's exactly what I was gonna say. It's gonna be close to 60 bucks when it comes [00:53:00] out. I bet.
Senator: More than that. When we bought more, it was what, 30 something? Yeah. Yeah. 35. 30.
I think it was
Gizmo: like the high end of the thirties. I, I think it was 30, 35. Listen, the Maduro
Pagoda: goes for 55, like in the market.
Gizmo: Yeah, that's the re robusto too.
Pagoda: Yeah. So, no, no. The Maduro goes for 50 50. Yeah. So it's pretty, we got them for 35. They, they're 50. No, no, I said 55, either 50 or 55. Oh, yeah,
Senator: yeah. Sorry, I thought you said 35.
Pagoda: No, so the chef's edition's not gonna be anywhere around 50 to 60. I bet it's gonna be hundred 80.
Senator: 80 to
Chef Ricky: 180 to a hundred, which just kills it. It was 16, 2016 was the first one. Got it.
Gizmo: Yeah, I, I agree. I think it takes the chef to know, I think you push that cigar up to triple digits and then it loses its luster.
Oh yeah. I'm not buying it.
Chef Ricky: I don't think it's going to triple digits. I hope not. That would suck.
Gizmo: All they need to do is get a couple high-end chef names on it. You know Chef Ricky? Yeah. For example. And
Chef Ricky: I mean, they've had some pretty high-end chef names on the two previous ones.
Senator: All right. So I'm, I'm gonna ask this question 'cause I'm gonna hold every single one of us, including [00:54:00] myself.
I'm really doing this also for me accountable. At what price point? If Davidoff sets it for the Chef's Edition, will you not buy it? A box or a single? No, no, no.
Gizmo: A single, I'll try a Chef's Edition under a hundred dollars. I will try a single. So you pay a hundred bucks? I would pay up to a hundred just to try it.
I will not buy a box at that price.
Chef Ricky: I would say I'd pay up to 70.
Gizmo: How much is the Padron
Chef Ricky: 60th?
Gizmo: Six. Um, 70, 75. 75. 75. 75. I wouldn't pay more
Grinder: than 75. Okay. That's a good benchmark. I seriously like if it's, if it's at that level.
Gizmo: Okay. 75. Senator, what's yours? Self-accountability.
Grinder: Deep thought.
Senator: I mean, I, I wanna say 90 to be safe, but that's such a cop out 'cause I, the odds are very good that it'll be a little under that. I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say [00:55:00] 85. Okay, rooster two 50.
Gizmo: Just to be safe. You do love dda. If it's less, it's less. Let's go to our value man. To finish this off Pagoda.
Pagoda: I'll wait till we review it
TEAM AMERICA: Correct,
Gizmo: because answers zero.
Yeah, that's, so that should be great when that cigar comes out. But, um, I hope it's
Rooster: not more than 75. I don't know, man. The way things are trending.
Gizmo: Come on.
Rooster: It'd
Senator: be a disgrace.
Gizmo: The rib robusto insane with a Maduro wrapper regular production. That's not limited, right? That's a new regular production run. The Maduros, that's a $50 re robusto.
There's no way that they're gonna put out a Churchill for less than 75, 80 bucks. I mean, the year
Senator: of the snake ERO was what? 75 bucks? 70. 70, 70 bucks.
Rooster: Yeah.
Senator: So a Churchill, that's insane.
Grinder: That's crazy. Now I just [00:56:00] gotta hope it's 85 or less. This is some haos essay bullshit. Correct. I better come that it's almost
Gizmo: like they've given the market permission.
To push the prices. It's almost like they were the first ones out that did, they obviously went crazy. You know, some of those prices went four or five, 600% of what they were just pre COVID. But I think in that, I, I do think that some of these manufacturers have seen that work for them. Yeah. And they're taking advantage of, I think they,
Grinder: I
Gizmo: think
Grinder: they found their place in the market as the luxury providers.
Yeah. That's a And that's what they're going for. There's, it's, it's, anybody can get a bag, but not everyone can get a Birkin bag, like, you know, and, and it's the same thing with Bonos and, and Vidal for sure. Which pri prides that brand.
Senator: Agreed. I just wanna make a distinction. I I, I don't blame Haos essay for this.
Davidov has been doing this longer than Hano S has. Correct? Yeah. Yeah, that's fair point. I mean, when we were spending [00:57:00] $8 a cigar to smoke a D four A RAs, any great Cuban cigar, we were paying 25, 30, 35 bucks for Davidov cigars. They have always been priced much higher than their competitors. So this has historically been our gripe with Davidoff since day one.
The price point?
Pagoda: Yeah, because the later was 25 bucks years ago. Yeah, years ago, like
Chef Ricky: when it came out. I think it's gonna come down to the packaging. I, I haven't had a A 2016 Chefs sed edition, at least I don't think so. Or I may have, but I haven't seen the packaging. Was it the same, was it the Porton Ashry?
No. Did it change now? No, it was de different. They 20 change every time, so we change it up. It'd be interesting to see what direction they go in with the packaging and I mean, I'm sure that's gonna help dictate the price.
Senator: That's also what I hate. It's like. Davinov has more gimmicky packaging and ashtrays and, uh, briefcases [00:58:00] with a Winston Churchill logo on it.
I mean, just stupid stuff. Flasks. I mean, I have so much crap that they've given out over the years and it's like, just lower the price so that more people can smoke your cigars. Nobody needs
Gizmo: this extra crap. Yeah. They bake it into the price of the cigars and you're forced to take it. And, you know, I do like the ceramic ashtray, but most everything else I've, I don't even use, especially that briefcase that's still sitting somewhere in my house.
So
Rooster: they have had three renditions of the chefs. You know
Chef Ricky: that? Well, the first one was 16. What was the, I know I've had the 21. So what was the other year? There's been three,
Rooster: so that's why I say I think the first one was 2013. We have an Iron Chef battle right now. I'm loving this. I'm pretty, there's there's three.
There's three, right?
Grinder: I think there's two by the way. That's what I was looking for. We, the
Rooster: second one wasn't good. The third one was good. The first one was phenomenal.
Grinder: I'm almost, I agree with the first one being amazing. Second one and the second one wasn't that good being a stinker
Rooster: [00:59:00] and third one was pretty good.
The third one came in the Ashray rooster's, correct.
Chef Ricky: 16, 18, and 21. There you go. Wow. So it's the, I'm kind of correct for the 18. I haven't had the 16 I've had, well that's good.
Rooster: But the 18 sucked. What whatcha you doing? Final
Gizmo: jeopardy.
Chef Ricky: We got the answer. We got the answer.
Gizmo: All right, good. So we'll see what happens with the chefs.
I. The Future Chef's Edition from Davidoff. Hopefully it's good and hopefully it is not ridiculously priced.
Chef Ricky: It'd be cool if they kind of used some kind of packaging that was, uh, related to the everyday. Life of a chef, uh, whether it's a knife box or ya kumi pan, which is like a Japanese mis misla pan or something.
That could be cool.
Senator: How about just gimme the cigars. I've always dreamed of having one of those pants.
Chef Ricky: You don't have a mis put a D on Senator. You of all people would love that fucking thing. All right. You're, you're a super aesthetic individual, so doesn't doesn't mean, and plastic
Rooster: [01:00:00] just mean everything in place.
Chef Ricky: Everything in place. Yes. But, and when you're working in high-end kitchens, you use your kumi pans and they're these stainless steel like, you know, short, rectangular pans and they just look better than like your average hotel pan shape. It's just cleaner looking, a little bit more minimalistic and.
Highend.
Gizmo: That's what you have to look forward to. I can't, are you listening, guys? All right, boys. Let's go to some listener email. Now, this one is from Lizard Mike. He says, Hey, lizards. I just wanted to share a new world cigar that is an absolute must try. All caps Uhoh absolute must try, a vowed Cigars, the Vow, six point 29 Toro and the new Dawn Rib Robusto Grande.
They are the best cigars I've smoked all year. End of story, full stop. Wow. For the Cuban lover, it scratches that itch, but with affordability, flawless construction and stateside availability, and absolutely stunning smoke that I believe the [01:01:00] lounge lizards would thoroughly enjoy. As always, love the pod and keep up the great work lizard, Mike.
Now the reason why I wanted to bring that email in tonight is first off, Andrew and Dave, who are the guys who make a vowed cigars. Manufactured by Klaus Kelner, uh, uh, in the Dominican Republic. Uh, they own small batch cigars, so this is their brand. Avowed. We met them at PCA, they gave us some cigars. And Senator, tell 'em how you've been enjoying them.
Senator: So I smoke through the whole pack except the unbranded one that isn't yet released. Um, but of all the banded stuff that is out and available. I enjoyed every single one. I mean, I think this lizard is spot on in that there are must review cigars. Um, I don't remember which names, you know, were my strongest preferences, but the fact that I didn't have a single one that I didn't like and it was just varying degrees of, you know, good to great.
Um, I think everybody's gonna really enjoy the cigars.
Rooster: So which one is he recommending?
Senator: What's it [01:02:00] called?
Gizmo: He's, he's recommending the Vow 6.29 Toro and the new Dawn Re, Robusto Grande. Those are the two that he's recommending. Have you had them? So I've not had them yet because, uh, stupidly it was stupid. I accidentally left them in a humidity pack from PCA, so, you know, and then Senator was sending these pictures and I just haven't gotten to them and now I have to wait for them to like reacclimate from getting out of that ridiculous.
Humidity packs. So
Senator: the other lizard who has started smoking through them is Bam. And he has had the exact same feedback. He's loved everyone he's had.
Gizmo: So these are out, they're available.
Senator: Yeah. On small batches site. Oh, nice.
Gizmo: So the plan that I'm thinking here is we're gonna review an EV avowed cigar. I'm gonna talk to Andrew and Dave, see what they're thinking.
And we're gonna package in the interview we did with Kloss Kelner at PCA into that episode. So we're gonna get to that sometime, probably by the end of the summer. So that'll be something to look forward to. But based on your endorsement, bams endorsement, the Lizards endorsement, you know, in our listenership, [01:03:00] uh, and you know, Andrew and David are such nice guys, and of course Kloss, it seems like a vowed.
Is set up for a, uh, pretty big win here. So we'll see how they taste on the pod. Let's go to another email here, boys. This one is from Lizard Chris, he says, I have a comment and cigar suggestion based on your guys' comment on the Opus X last pod. For the record, I am not an Opus X fan boy, and I agree with the commentary of them being overrated and overpriced.
This is no secret, however, hands down, the best cigar I've ever had was the Opus X forbidden X, A more sensual. 54 ring gauge by sixth and an eighth. The a more sensuals, this sounds like a sex toy. The, the sensual love. I mean, these names are
Senator: ridiculous.
Gizmo: I, I, I agree. I had been letting it sit in my humid art for three years and finally decided to smoke it to celebrate Christmas and finishing my first semester of grad school.
It's incredibly complex and change its flavors and dominant notes four to five times throughout the entire cigar. I'm someone who loves [01:04:00] complexity and rich flavors without overpowering strength in a cigar. So this was right up my alley. I give it a 10 out of 10 and paired it with Remy 1738. Starting off in the beginning, you get cedar rich earth in that classic fuente spice.
Then after a 10 minute or so, it changes so suddenly to rich molasses, hay, nutty, creamy, fig combination. That's just mind blowing up until the last third. The nuances of these notes fade in and out with some becoming more dominant than the others. It finishes with the hay and grass disappearing and being replaced with a bready note, keeping the creamy and sweet dominant profile.
The only downside of this cigar, like every single opus I've had, is that it burns inconsistently as we experienced and flakes quite a bit. So construction is a, and how much do we have to
Senator: pay for this incredible flaky experience? He
Gizmo: didn't lay that out. I'm interested to find out if we want to try that as our next, um, as our next, uh, uh, opus review down the road.
He says it must be the Dominican wrapper or something causing that. I don't understand how [01:05:00] it's so bad. I've even changed how I store them at different humidities and dry boxing, dry boxing, et cetera, et cetera. Pulling a full gizmo, even with the unfortunate amount of times I had to touch it up. It's a 10.
It's a 10, it's a 10. As Pagoda says, you guys should absolutely try this cigar on the pod. That is a ringing endorsement from Lizard Chris. Well also that lizard should feel free to send us some. We're happy to try them.
Rooster: It took him three years to smoke one. So,
Gizmo: you know, I, I just like, we talked about this a couple weeks ago.
I, and I've been thinking about it consistently as I've seen the few extra cigars I have from that purchase of that oral square order that we reviewed is just thinking about that construction issues and how many times all of us had a touch that cigar up. I mean, for a $40 cigar. I mean, we said this over and over, I just still like to reach for it.
It's, it's something that's too much work. I have no interest. So hopefully we can find an opus that, um, that is not the case on. I think the forbid index is more, [01:06:00]
Senator: those are expensive. Aren't those the ones that come in? Those like purple boxes? I think they're either blue or purple or one of the two. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're right. Yeah. You have one of the ashtrays, I think, right? I do. Yeah. It just a bit. I just don't have the cigar.
Gizmo: All right, boys. We are now coming into the final third here on the JC Newman, the American in Toro. What's everybody thinking?
Rooster: Well, the cigar is good, but my, my cigar has had construction issues throughout the wrapper, was cracked a couple of different spots, so that has, you know, impacted it. Kind of impacted my, yeah.
Uh, I don't like that, you know, it's, it's not a good thing. He knocked it down from a four to a three. The flavor. Flavor is good. Yeah. Flavor. Flavor is spot on. Flavor is for American tobacco. I think it's pretty good.
Gizmo: I'm happy. Mine finally moved to savory. Um, it's, it's probably about 10, 15 minutes ago. It, the sweet, like I was [01:07:00] getting punched in the face with that sweetness and it's finally tapered off.
Sweetness
Rooster: is gone
Gizmo: and it's, it's definitely more savory now, but I'm still getting the sweetness in a lot of wood, but it's very pleasant for me right now. I'm enjoying the transitions so far. I just wish my sweetness had dialed down a little bit, a little sooner. You gotta lay off the bouchard,
Grinder: but I, I, mine is really lightened up.
It's like, it was, it was start off peppery, then it got smooth and creamy and then it, now it's just kind of tapering. It's on the downtrend, which is, you know, it's not a demit, it's just lost some strength.
Senator: Uh, I, I've loved the journey mine. I mentioned the first third was way more sweet than it was savory.
Second, third, a little more savory than sweet. And the final third, a lot more savory than it is sweet. So, for me, it's been a three act play. I'm like truly shocked and impressed. Um, all the flavor notes have remained relatively consistent. They've just dialed up or down as you're smoking [01:08:00] it. Um, I've, you know, had no construction issues.
Um, I, I'm very happy with this cigar and just really shocked and pleasantly surprised. Me too.
Pagoda: I'm like, uh, it's been relatively the same, a little more, um, savory, but a little more intensified savoriness. It's, it's really, it's so good. It's, I'm really enjoying it, man.
Gizmo: I think the thing that I've experienced is because I've been talking so much, I just think that this is a cigar that kind of requires very consistent regular draws.
So if I'm talking a lot, I feel like I've been having to touch it up a little more. Not so much in the back half, but I do think that has affected my experience. So I'm gonna, I'm not gonna knock it for that.
Pagoda: No, fair enough. Because
Gizmo: obviously everybody else in the room has really had a better journey as far as the combustion and whatnot goes.
But the flavor, I'm, I'm really enjoying it. I think it's really good right now. How about you, chef?
Chef Ricky: I love the flavor. It's been really consistent throughout. Um, you know, it started a little sweeter, got somewhat, uh, more balanced at the second, third, and now coming into the final third, it's mellowed out just a bit.
[01:09:00] And on the retro hill, I'm getting a, a good amount of spice now going to, uh, Grinder's point earlier where he was getting some pepper. I think now that we're just coming to the final third here, it's heating up a little bit and getting a little bit more, uh, peppery on the, on the retro.
Gizmo: I do think the open draw has affected how warm it's gotten in my fingers.
Like my fingers are starting to get pretty hot from the combustion, and I think that's just a product that the draw's been too open and there's just almost too much going on inside the cigar. Like it is very hot right now. Are you guys experiencing that as well?
Senator: I'm lucky. Honestly, my draw has been great.
Throughout it, there's just slightly, there's just a little resistance, so like, if you were to feel this, it's, it's pretty cool. It's not burning hot at all,
Pagoda: nor is mine. But you know, you may have those model hands. You could be hand model. I was just thinking, you know, with the hand model, you know, with the sensitive, uh, sensitive hands, uh, feeling warm.
Yeah, that's all right. We,
Senator: we do know the small hands from the
Pagoda: photos. Oh, [01:10:00] come
Gizmo: on man.
Pagoda: But did you see that even the listeners send a small pocket book? I, you know, I was wondering like That's true. It was just perfectly sized as well.
Gizmo: I'm ignoring you
Pagoda: guys. It's so nice.
Gizmo: Alright, let's go to another email.
Now, this one's from Lizard Barry. He says, hello lizards. I've taken up this wonderful hobby of ours this past year, and I've been completely obsessed. My palate has developed nicely so far, and I attribute a lot of it to your podcast. Being in the suburbs of Chicago, I've not been able to find a group of guys such as yourselves who appreciate Cuban cigars and spirits as well.
And so I pour myself a drink and pull out a nice cigar, and I listen to your podcast and laugh as if I'm sitting right there with you.
Chef Ricky: I love to hear that. What's the best way to do it?
Gizmo: I've made my way through almost all of the episodes, and there is one thing I'm yearning for. A list of each of your daily rotation cigars or what could be more fun is a top 10.
List each of your top 10 lists and then you can compare and make a master top 10 list for the pod. Keep up the good work and thank [01:11:00] you for the entertainment lizard berry. So I think the thing that I would say about our regular rotation, our daily rotations, we've done some of that like lizard rotation stuff is, and, and I would say over the last six months or even even a year, I've felt my rotation changing pretty dramatically.
From what it was years prior. Like, I, I feel like, and I almost wanna say that about all of us. I feel like everything has kind of changed. Like it's constantly refreshing why we've introduced
Pagoda: from new cigars. Absolutely. Exactly. Whether it's stoic, whether it's, you know, uh, the Bon Robert Cigars or whether it's, uh, you know, fabric of five.
Yeah. There's so many new cigars which have come into a rotation for sure. Yeah. Things have changed.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. The aging room
Pagoda: Sonata. Yeah. The Sonata. Yep.
Gizmo: Adenos.
Chef Ricky: Oh yeah,
Gizmo: Grindr. Has your rotation changed at all, or you still been pretty consistent? My
Grinder: rotation has been very consistent for the past, say, six months.
So what are, what are those four or five cigars for you? I'm [01:12:00] smoking two cigars predominantly. It's, uh, a 7 0 2 D Itoff D Itoff. I'm like, ooh, almost done my first box. Uh, and a lot of Raz Ramon Ionis. Yeah. Raz Cuba, seven oh twos for, honestly, that's been about six months. Pretty consistently.
Gizmo: I would say out of everybody, I think senator's rotations probably changed the most dramatically in the last six months or, or a
Senator: year.
It, it's changed the most dramatically and it's probably the most consistent in that. I mean, almost any session what I pack religiously, you know, in my cigar case a Cuban, and that rotates now an all Dino Cameroon ribo, an aging room, sonata and torpedo, uh, Padron Xbo, uh, d it off Bella CSO has like a little short smoke to, you know, close the night.
Um, and that's like the core [01:13:00] rotation right now. And then, you know, I may throw something random in a, you know, very nice cigar that I want to enjoy, but like every day, what I know will always satisfy me. Like that's the core lineup.
Gizmo: So for me, mine right now I would say is an Allo Dino of some sort, a Fabrica five of some sort, the Padron vo, the stoic courage, and then some other random kind of, who knows what it is, a Cuban of some sort or some other cigar I have in my tower.
But I would say that's my core rotation that's happening right now. But like, you know, we said Fabrica five, we only discovered a year and a half, two years ago. They only came out at that time. The all Dino we've only discovered over the last year, I would say, and stoic obviously, you know, pretty recently.
So those being consistent daily entrance in uh, you know, a lot of our rotations is, is pretty wild. And then the cigars, they pushed out, you know, making much fewer appearances.
Rooster: Yeah, [01:14:00] I mean, for me it's been the, uh, I smoke a lot of the Padron Vos and the number 35 as a short smoke. I really love that. Uh, the stoic courage is also in there.
Um, for Cuban, I think I go in b go sometimes for the jail one, jail two, uh, those are the two. And, uh, RAs and, and Poor Laga, the petite Corona that, and, uh, there happens to be one or two Doffs in there too. I have to do many Kna today, or the grand crew in the afternoon. Yeah. I still have some pagoda.
Pagoda: Oh, yeah.
I, I need to buy some more. I've run out of them. I need a new rotation. What's your chef?
Chef Ricky: Yeah, no, I, for me it's been really the, uh, the sonata, the agent room sonata. Um, the Davidov peso, what's worked its way back into my rotation is the Ika. I'm really enjoying those as of late. Uh, always did, but now they're hitting a little differently and I think [01:15:00] it's because I've given them to a few of my friends and they really enjoy them.
Uh, so it's, that's it's age also helps. Yeah, a hundred percent.
Gizmo: Yeah. We've had those what, two or three years
Chef Ricky: now? Yeah. Mm-hmm. They are incredible with a few years of age and then something that I jumped on recently and within the past month and a half, um, 'cause Rooster put one up in the chat was a, so I ended up buying a cabinet and I love having those as go-tos and putting them in my daily rotation as well.
Guys used
Grinder: to love those. I
Gizmo: did. Yeah. I smoked a lot of them.
Grinder: You did.
Gizmo: But I've fallen off, you know, you know what it was, is they were hard to get for a while. Mm-hmm. Like it was hard to get those 50 cabs. Um, you know, obviously, uh, chef saying he found them, but I was, there was a pretty significant period where I couldn't find them anywhere.
Same. Yeah. And they just fell off. They just fell outta my interest. You know, I think
Chef Ricky: someone put it in the chat saying that they were available and, you know, up to that point, I hadn't tried them, so, and I'm glad I got them.
Pagoda: Pagoda, what's your rotation working like? Yeah, you know, it's, it's all the uh, same cigars.
I think in the last couple of months. I've [01:16:00] had a lot of the seven oh twos and the Dominicans, including, I always have a sonata with me. In fact, a couple of sonatas, I'll definitely do maybe two sonatas a day. I have the bellaco, so, and a padron for the last night, you know, when it's coming to the end of the night.
I like to end with something, which is very, you know, it's just me and it's all of us I think. And um, yeah, that's really it. I was gonna
Grinder: say, you, the cigar pics, you send the chat are like predominantly sonatas. Usually
Pagoda: I do a lot of sonatas. I do a lot of uh, um. The OSAs, uh, finished just what couple of boxes of the Dominicans and the seven oh twos, um, the drugs.
Are you, are you done with the Dominicans? I've been doing, I have a few left. I'm done with the seven oh twos. How many of those did
Rooster: you smoke? A hundred. He had more than 250. Oh my God. At least, I'm [01:17:00] sure you gave some away.
Pagoda: I gave some away, but I, I think I'm ready. Some of them
Senator: are still in the New Jersey Transit.
If any of the listeners
Pagoda: would like to sell the Dominicans, there's a buyer out here. Eager buyer. Uh,
Gizmo: yeah. Email me. I'll give you his direct contact. Oh, no, please don't.
Pagoda: No. But yeah. And then, um, you know, the, I been, um, doing a little bit of the stoics, the courage, um, that's coming to the rotation. I just finished a box of that as well, and.
Yeah, it's pretty much the same cigars. I think we all rotate through. I was thinking, you know, the Bekos of the short has been so good. You know, I remember last year it used to be the Papa Frida for me, you know, you know, I've gone through a lot of those shorts. But the Bekos has been great. It's, it's a really good addition.
Gizmo: I've, I've found myself caught that I didn't have a Davidoff be Cosa, like you want that last like 20 to 25 minutes in a night? And I find myself forgetting to bring them and I'm like stuck because I just want that little bit and I don't have one. So I'm trying to pack them more. So I have that last kind of dessert stick of [01:18:00] the night.
You know, it's a
Senator: rookie mistake is correct. It is. I always leave a 10 in my locker here because inevitably someone is going to, at the end of the night say, oh, I need a short smoke. So there's one there. Gizmo's been that person before. And then I always just for myself, like I pack one anytime I leave my house.
Gizmo: Alright boys, let's go to another email now. This one's gonna be our lizard of the week. This one's from Lizard Shawnee, bro. He writes this all the time. This is a comment he posted on YouTube. And, uh, for our listeners out there who only listen to the New World episodes, uh, we've had this discussion over the last few weeks on the Cuban episodes about changing the rotation of Cuban cigars.
Correct. You know, so obviously last week we talked about. The fact that we're gonna keep going. Uh, we found an opportunity to keep getting Cuban cigars. Obviously that's temporary, you know, potentially it might change again, but Lizard Shawnee bro reacted here to the call to action that I put out there to our listeners, and I wanna read his email to you now.
So he said I became a listener [01:19:00] once I caught the Cuban bug, and this pod stands out because you guys are the only ones who smoke them with any level of regularity and with the level of authenticity that I can trust, much of my buying decisions have been a direct result. Listening to your reviews. That said, GIZ hit the nail on the head.
The supply just isn't there anymore, and it doesn't feel like it's gonna get better, nor will the pricing trends reverse. I spent a disgusting amount of money building up a stockpile with the hope that I could have enough on hand to age smoke and share for years to come. I never realized that those boxes might be the last ones I'll ever get my hands on.
I'm pretty much officially priced out and I'm sick of stocking Cubans like COVID era toilet paper. Even if one has an unlimited supply of money, the lack of inventory dooms us all. Like with everything else in life. You can't cry over spilt milk if presented with no recourse or better option, you just gotta move on.
Does this mean I'll give up cigars? Hell no. None of your listeners will drop the pod because your secret sauce isn't only about [01:20:00] Cuban cigars, the booze reviews, the comradery, the humor, and above all the honesty is what makes me come back. I'm sure I'm not the only guy out there who became a loyal listener because of these reasons.
If anything, moving on to reviews on readily accessible cigars will give way more people a chance to actually experience them at some point or another. You guys don't have to dumb it down either. New world blenders are getting better and better and better with every release. IE all Dino Dunbarton, Keagy, Bon Roberts, Lampert Placencia among others.
Another key point for you, most of the consumers of cigar media will instinctively understand that you need to find reviewers who have a similar palette because they'll introduce you to sticks that you've never heard of, that you'll likely enjoy. You guys are Cuban enthusiasts, so we the public get a lot of value from the lounge, lizard smoking stuff that we can also move on to and enjoy or avoid like the plague.
We need you guys to sherpa us through these tough times. If and when [01:21:00] things get back to a healthier place, I'm sure you guys will get right back to it and Lizard Nation will follow suit. That's a great email.
Senator: That's great. Outstanding email.
Gizmo: Outstanding comment. I love
Senator: this lizard. That
Gizmo: is our Wizard of the Weak Boys.
Senator: Absolutely. Sherpa
Pagoda: Guz. Absolutely.
Gizmo: Thank you. Sherpa Pagoda. I you're the Sherpa now on Sherpaing us. So I really like that email and like we said last week, we, we did have an opportunity to keep things rolling for Cuban cigars for now. We'll keep doing that. We might change it, uh, by the end of the summer.
We're gonna continue discussing that internally and also with you all out there. But, um, you know, we'll see what happens, uh, with the Cuban cigar reviews on the podcast. So Shawnee bro, like I said, is gonna be our lizard of the week. Any lizard out there can win Lizard of the Week. All you have to do like Shawnee Bro, and all these other emailers did send us a comment, YouTube, Instagram, email, a voice memo, whatever you choose.
Anybody is [01:22:00] eligible to win Lizard of the week and we will send you something, uh, for your time. We really appreciate it. The volume of emails we've gotten on this Cuba versus new world rotations cadence thing, um, has been immense. Uh, and what it's been really valuable for me to see is the connection we have with our listeners and to understand who our listeners are as it relates to this discussion.
So it's been very, very enlightening and eyeopening, so please keep them coming. Let's go to one more email before we get into the ratings tonight, boys. This one is from Lizard Lee, and he says, A warm good day from down under and a question. For the lizards, dear Lizards, greetings from sunny downtown Australia.
As a relatively new cigar enthusiast, I wanted to reach out and say thank you. Your podcast has become an invaluable companion on my journey into the world of cigars, from learning about different brands to understanding the nuances of flavor. Strength and construction. Your conversations have helped me build confidence in what I can otherwise be [01:23:00] an overwhelming landscape.
For a beginner living in Australia, cigars aren't exactly cheap. What might be a $10 US stick often ends up costing us 40 or $50 here. So making a misstep in a cigar selection can be a very expensive lesson, add in a poorly chosen spirit pairing, and it quickly becomes a very pricey. Disappointment. That brings me to my question for you guys.
How do you go about selecting the right spirit to pair with a cigar? Are there any general principles that you follow to ensure the drink compliments rather that competes with the cigar? And more specifically, are there any particular spirit styles or regions that pair especially well with certain types of cigars?
For example, Nicaraguans versus Cubans, or Maduros versus light wrappers. I'd love to hear your thoughts and any tips or go-to pairings that you recommend for someone who is still finding their palate. Keep up. The great work, the mix of humor, knowledge, and comradery you guys bring [01:24:00] to each episode has made this new hobby of mine even more enjoyable.
Warm regards, lizard Lee from Australia. Another great email voice. Yeah,
Pagoda: so that's excellent. Really good stuff.
Gizmo: All right, so let's answer his question. How do we go about selecting the right spirit to pair with a cigar? General principles that we follow to ensure the drink compliments rather than competes?
And are there any specific spirit styles or regions that pair especially well with certain types of cigars? Like he says, Nicaraguans versus Cubans, or Maduros versus lighter rappers?
Pagoda: It's Chef Ricky and Senator.
Chef Ricky: Well, not, not just G What about Sherpa? Giz, definitely not giz. I think the beauty is that we each have, for chocolate pairings, we gonna giz.
That's not nice.
Gizmo: That's not nice.
Chef Ricky: I think the beauty is that we each have our own lane, you know? So whether I'm that tequila sort of mescal guy and you know, senators, the rum, uh, rum, wine, champagne guy, and then you [01:25:00] have grandeur over there with the scotch and beer and, and rooster with coffee and tea. Um, lemonade matcha.
Yeah, gizmo with
Senator: hot chocolate.
Chef Ricky: Gizmo with hot chocolate and, and, and pagoda with ice. I just drink ice.
TEAM AMERICA: Oh, that was
Chef Ricky: fucking great.
Gizmo: That was excellent. Well done. She beautiful. Well done. Uh, I love when you get shanked. Pagoda. Yeah. Know. I love it.
Pagoda: You gotta take it. You gotta take, that was a good bite.
Chef Ricky: No, I think we just have fun with it and, you know, and it comes naturally to us because of what we, you know, our exposure to certain things.
And, um, you know, it, it's, I think that's really the difference here is that none of this is forced, you know, it just really comes naturally and we talk about it and, and you know, sometimes we'll put a pairing up or a suggestion up and there's some counterpoints to that and we rethink it. But it's, it's, yeah.
It's alright. Pagoda,
Senator: I'm gonna shank for you. Can [01:26:00] we answer the listener's question? I thought I did. I'm sorry. No, he's asking how we determine what we're gonna drink, not how we're good at how each of us is good at different things.
Chef Ricky: So, well mean, I guess I sort of answered it
Gizmo: Well. I would say that you and I, Senator primarily have developed a little bit of a set of principles as it relates to the pairings.
Senator: For me, there's two things. One is like body. Slash strength, right? So if we're gonna have a full-bodied new world cigar, we need a spirit that's gonna be able to hold up to that. If we're gonna have a lighter Cuban cigar or a lighter new world cigar, we need a spirit that is in no way going to overpower that.
So that's like the table stakes, I feel like for a pairing no different than also even wine. When we're pairing a wine or a champagne, we're not gonna pair a very full bodied red wine with a milder cigar or like a
Rooster: champagne with a Nicaragua cigar per
Senator: se. But even in champagnes, there's variation, right?
So like you know, Boer is much fuller bodi than Po [01:27:00] Roge. So like Roge can pair with any Cuban cigar and like most mild or medium new world cigars, but like a fuller bodied new world cigar. I'd go Bollinger or something with just some more bodies and more structure to it. So I think like that's criteria number one.
And then number two is flavor. Where if you're gonna have a cigar that, you know, let's say is very sweet, leans much more into that flavor profile than it does savory or, you know, acidity or some of these other notes, you know, you, you don't want. Any pairing that is so divergent from that, those flavor notes that it becomes in any way clashes with it and it's not somewhat harmonious.
So I think when we talk about like, that was a perfect pairing, a lot of the time we're saying that notes were getting, there's some similarity to the notes we're getting in the cigar as we are the spirit. And that's what makes like a truly perfect pairing. So if you're having something that [01:28:00] you know is sweeter nuttier and you're having a cognac, you're having a rum, you're having a whiskey, um, you're having an anejo tequila and you're getting like this nuttiness, you know, that's gonna pair really well together.
So, and then similarly, if you're having a cigar that's much drier, you don't want like an aggressively sweet. Spirit with that. You want something more balanced, that's not gonna be, you're at two complete opposite ends of the spectrum. So I think those are like the two single most important criteria. And I think that holds true really across any spirit, wine, any category basically, that you can name.
Gizmo: And I would say too, piggyback on what you're saying, I would say over the last year. We as a group have gotten a lot better at kind of anticipating to the best of our ability, trying to find the right cigar and the right, the right spirit or wine or whatever it is to pair with it. I, I would say earlier on in the pod it was a little bit more of a crap shoot.
Now it's a [01:29:00] little bit more like, here's what we're smoking, let's talk about what we're pairing and then go to a specialist to, you know, figure out what what the right move is. So I would say for this listener, if you look back at the last year of episodes, find a cigar two, three, or 10 that you like and we gave it a great rating and you align with the flavor notes that might interest you see how the pairing rated with it and if, if it rated well grab it or look to another cigar of similar origin that had a pairing that rated better maybe than that one did, and kind of line it up for yourself.
I mean, I, I think the ratings guide is a great way to find good pairings with good cigars.
Senator: And I think like, you know, the watch outs as far as pairings are just in every category of spirit or wine, there are certain outliers that are like really aggressive on a particular spectrum that you just need to know to be careful what you pair with it and intentional about.
So like anything that is [01:30:00] super pd, you need to be really thoughtful about what you're gonna pair. Your average run of the mill scotch is gonna pair well with almost any cigar. That's like a safe bet for you. But something that super pd, you know, um, in, in mescal even, you know, something that's super PD is, is what you need to be really thoughtful about.
Other mescals we've had that lean, sweeter are gonna pair well with almost any cigar. You don't need to be as worried about that. And I think similarly with wine, like, you know, your standard kind of medium bodied, you know, red wine or a pretty run of the mill, even white wine like most. Sticks will pair well with stuff like that, but a super full bodied red, you know, a super acidic white, like those are things that you just need to be careful about that very easily could clash with something.
So I think it's, it's not, it, it's hard to go wrong with most popular [01:31:00] spirits or wines. Um, but it's the less popular, more enthusiast type, you know, brands and releases and bottles that you just need to be more careful about. I, I think
Grinder: another thing we haven't really missed, you know, and I think that there's a lot of reasons that I think having the guardrails and, you know, the, the bullet points on what you should avoid speaks volumes.
But it's, it is hard to, it is hard to mess up. Like you can wing it if you're in the right ballpark and like the la the right flavor profiles. And I think, you know. There's something to be said about trying different, there's been times where we were just, we don't know what to pair and GIZ just grabs something at the, at the liquor store, right?
Not anymore. We don't allow that anymore. But, but it's been
Senator: successful still. Right? You make
Gizmo: it, you make it sound like I really,
Senator: uh, I don't, I don't, not blaming giz. I'm saying in the past we used to kind of just randomly like a assign someone to bring a spirit with little to no thought about like what's the cigars we're viewing And the danger in that is [01:32:00] exactly where you get into like, here's this great spirit that like has these really distinct notes that may clash with the cigar.
Now, since we don't randomly assign it, like usually he and I have a conversation or obviously the group also weighs in on like, here's what we're smoking and here are the options that could pair well and everything else. Would not, and we should just put that off the table. So, and there's
Gizmo: often disagreement too.
Sometimes we, you know, uh, argue about it, namely BAM and Senator. But yeah, and I overrule him
Senator: every time.
Gizmo: I love Bam. Yeah. But I, I think Grindr's point is, is good too in that, you know, like recently we, we've had very few misses, aside from if the spirit just doesn't perform well, if it just doesn't taste great, you know, it gets the rating it gets.
But as far as pairing, we've, uh, we've definitely gotten better at that by just being a little bit more diligent.
Chef Ricky: I just wanna say, ever since you guys started drinking good tequila, the pairs as a whole, I've gotten much better. That's all. I'm just putting that, I'll
Pagoda: tell you, the ratings have [01:33:00] definitely gone higher.
Chef Ricky: Yeah.
Pagoda: Yeah. It's, it's so weird because I was just thinking about this, like, when it comes to tequila, our ratings are generally very, very high. So I think we like the flavor profile of tequila, just overall, the grill,
Rooster: I think you just smoke, just drinking good tequilas. Well, good spirits. Yeah. Thanks to Chef.
Yeah. Good
Chef Ricky: spirits in general. Yeah, but I, I just think that tequila does, uh, you know, it's changed you guys. Well, it's hilarious to think we've still been here drinking Don Julio and,
Senator: well, that, that's where I was gonna go. Thanks Chef. It's hilarious to think if we did this 20 years ago and chef was on this pod, I mean, we wouldn't have access to like, almost any great tequilas.
It would be very different. It's true.
Chef Ricky: Yeah. 20 years ago I probably, I probably wouldn't either, you know? Um, there, there wasn't many great tequilas 20 years ago, but yeah, it's changed. It's changed.
Gizmo: Alright, boys, we're coming to the end of our evening now with the Aor Aona and the JC Newman, the American in Toro.
Any final thoughts before we get into our ratings? [01:34:00]
Senator: I'll just, my final thought, I mean, I'm to the point where my fingers are burning and the flavor, I can't believe you're still smoking. I'm still smoking it and the flavor is still great. I, I am like shocked.
Rooster: It's shocking with American tobacco that
Chef Ricky: you're
Senator: getting these
Chef Ricky: flavors.
Crazy. That's true. So are there any other American tobacco cigars? A hundred percent.
Gizmo: I, I don't know if there's anything at, at a premium level that I would consider JC Newman or some of these other manufacturers we've talked about or rated or smoked. I, I don't know if there's any other that are doing 100% pure American tobacco manufactured in the us Every component coming from the us I think that is, this might be one of one.
And if I find another one, I'll report back in two weeks. I'll keep looking, but my understanding is this might be the only 100% from a premium manufacturer that's actually made here in the us. So boys, let's go into our formal liquor rating now on the Avalor Aona. [01:35:00] Grinder, you're up.
Grinder: I thought it was good.
Definitely too hot for me. Um, the ice helped a little bit. That's when I got some of the typical space side flavors. I like the idea of like, kind of customizing it to your own, you know, heat level, uh, and you have some of that control because it gives you the range, right? You, you're at 60%, you can bring it down or, you know, however you want.
Um, overall I thought it was fine. Uh, it didn't knock my socks off. I'd give it an eight. Okay. Chef Ricky.
Chef Ricky: I, I'm at an eight, but I, I thought it was a little bit more than fine. I, I did enjoy it. I thought it was rather rich. Uh, I love what it was bringing to the table. It might have been a little too rich for the cigar times, I think.
But this is something, uh, that, that I'd like to try again in the wintertime. You know, right now drinking. That's good. Call out around this time. That's, that's a good call out.
Gizmo: Yeah.
Chef Ricky: Uh, it feels like a little bit much, you know, just thinking if I were sitting out on the deck trying to smoke a cigar in a hundred [01:36:00] degree heat like we had today, um, it's probably not the best thing.
But, you know, on the winter night or a fall night and you're sitting out there, it's a little cooler. It cools down the beverage just a little bit, especially in my case where I don't put any, any ice in it. So it helps. Um, but yeah, I, I thought, I thought it delivered some really, some. Really powerful flavor.
I love the way it, I love the sherry cast the way it comes through. I, I enjoyed it.
Pagoda: Alright. Pagoda is a seven for me. I, I had a difficult time, uh, you know, just even having, uh, the drink, uh,
Senator: your glass is
Pagoda: empty. Yeah. Meaning, you know how I kept pouring ice, meaning, you know, even with the ice, it felt a bit too hot for me and I couldn't really enjoy the flavor profile.
So I did, you know, when it really just watered down completely. I got to taste a little bit of, you know, this overall, because I do like the Sherry Cas of people have heard me [01:37:00] in my previous episodes. Uh, but you know, it's not something I would, uh, reach out for, go for, you know, it's too high, uh, proof for me.
It's what, 120 bucks or 110 bucks? Um, yeah, I, you know, I prefer the ALO 12 for sure. Um. But, uh, just not within my flavor profile. So, seven for me. Do you think with a stronger cigar you would've had
Chef Ricky: a different experience?
Pagoda: I don't know. I, I also think it's like, you know, having another first drink, I think.
Also might have, uh, contributed to it, you know, just coming in, having it at the first drink. Like if I'm drinking, then I can typically go a bit stronger. Transition. Yeah. Yeah. And transition. I, you know, there the, obviously there are many factors. Yeah. Like, I just didn't enjoy it, meaning it's, uh, um, they, you know, the thing is when it really cooled down Yeah.
That, that's when I was really all right. Now I can drink it a little bit and then, and I still have some left and you know, typically if you know me, we all go for second pause and stuff like that. And, uh, [01:38:00] yeah. Just not, uh, not there. Uh, but you know, when the sherry, uh, cast the flavor profile is within my flavor profile, it's just really interesting that how much, when it's too hot, uh, you know, as a, as a drink or as a spirit, it, you know, it just changes the way you perceive it.
And, uh, didn't perceive it that way. Even though I think it's within my flavor profile, it's kind of really interesting. Uh, hence a seven. Otherwise it could have been lower or higher, but, um. Yeah. Meaning I, I would not pursue this at all. So,
Gizmo: so for me it's an eight. Uh, I think that this is the first spirit in a long time that when I took that first sip, I really felt like primitive palate, you know, like it was the first one in a long time that like.
I had no idea what was going on. The heat was there. Uh, I was not used to this. I was not expecting that. Um, even knowing that it was, you know, almost 61%, um, 120 some odd proof. But, uh, I enjoyed [01:39:00] the flavor of it. Once I got some ice in it, once my palate adjusted, I started getting some of those flavors that you guys were discussing.
Not as, as explicitly as you did. Um, but I thought the spirit paired very nicely with the cigar. I actually, for how sweet my cigar was, I actually appreciated the flavor profile of this scotch with it because it kind of balanced out that sweetness for me. But I thought it was a, a very good scotch. I, I agree with pagoda.
I'm not gonna pursue this. I would much rather have AOR 12 or 18. Um, but uh, you know, for 110 bucks, cask proof. I understand a little better now why people chase this. I want to. Find a way to chase this and train myself to understand what's going on here a little more. But for me tonight, I'm very happy with the scotch and it's an eight senator,
Senator: so I've been debating back and forth between a seven and an eight.
And it's hard for me because I really do enjoy the flavor profile of the scotch, and it's nice to see something more [01:40:00] complex than like their 12 year. That to me is very straightforward and one note, but it's a note we love. It's like just a sherry bomb. So like that's why we enjoy drinking it and the price point is great on it.
The heat though, really is a problem for me, and I say that because it's not even that I'm wholesale against, you know, drinking a higher proof spirit. I can remember even just this calendar year. There have been at least a few higher proof spirits that someone a friend has poured for me that I've been expecting to be punched in the face by, and I've sipped and been shocked like I would never guess.
It's as high proof as it is. That's nowhere near the case with this. I mean, you take one sip of this and you immediately know this is super high proof, and I just wish that there was a. A more refined way of delivering this amount of flavor. I mean, I think of other scotches that have just [01:41:00] as much flavor as this, but don't need to drink as hot to deliver it.
So it's a real hangup for me because as much as I like the flavor in this, it's not something that I would pursue just because it's too aggressive. And I mean, the amount of ice I had to put in this to tame it is how many chips of ice would you say you put in? I mean, probably five. Oh, wow. I mean, it's a lot.
And, and I mean, I shouldn't have to do that. So I'm at a seven. Uh, I still really like what Avalor does. I do love to see that they have this kind of range. And I think particularly for someone who loves high proof spirits and especially even bourbon drinkers who don't really dabble much with scotch, like this would be a great entry point into scotch for, um, a higher proof bourbon lover.
Um, but just for my palate and with the purpose being to pair a spirit. Almost, almost always with a cigar. It doesn't fit the bill in the way that you know, many others [01:42:00] do. So I'm at a soft recommend, but again, for someone who loves a higher proof spirit, I, I think they would really enjoy this.
Pagoda: You know, it's really interesting because if you have bourbon, which is high proof, right?
Well, not all, it's a total range, but, but some of the, some of the high proof bourbons, you put a little bit of ice and they're still very, I think they become easier to drink. I think this was a little more, a tad bit more difficult than even some of the high proof bourbons I've had. And I was like, alright.
You know, I, I just couldn't get, get into the rhythm of really enjoying it and Yeah. But I think,
Gizmo: I think 60 is very different from 50.
Chef Ricky: This is very high proof. Yeah. I mean, most of the, this is, this is booker's level. Most of the bourbon weed drink
Gizmo: is probably closer to 50 50. Alright. Yeah. Or even in the forties.
And some of the, the cash strength there still strength or whatever get up there, but I think most of the stuff that we've done, even the stuff that's hot, yeah, I don't think it's even getting close to 55. I mean, 60% is a lot. We, we think Weller 1 0 7 is, uh, yeah, I was gonna say Weller 1
Pagoda: 0 7 is probably, this is 120.
That's [01:43:00] crazy. Yeah.
Gizmo: All right, boys. The formal liquor rating tonight on the Ador Aona is a 7.6. Let's compare that to the other two ador we've done on the pod. On episode 105, we did the Ador, 12 years aged, scored an 8.5, and on one episode, 165 we did the ador. 18 years age single mon scotch. We scored an 8.8, so this one's scoring a 7.6 is quite a bit weaker than that.
All right, now it's time to do the formal lizard rating on the JC Newman, the American in Toro Rooster Europe. So this was our first
Rooster: true American puo cigar that we have done. So I had no idea. I mean, had not ever had a American ot, did not know what to expect out of this cigar. But I must say I was pleasantly surprised by the flavors that were delivered.
With the cigar. I mean, the creaminess of the cigar was very complimentary to the sweet [01:44:00] note that was throughout it was delivered. Then it got a little bit savory towards the end. The woodiness that came through almost throughout the cigar. It was present. It was a really, a good experience. And it's worth exploring maybe other cigars that use more American tobaccos.
Uh, I think the price point at $20 is fair for this size of the cigar and the amount of tobacco that's in it. The cigar, I felt was a bit, um, rolled a bit loosely, or maybe there was, you know, the, the draw was a little bit too open for me. I would, I would've liked a little bit more, more of a snog draw. My cigar was the only one that had a little bit of a construction issue.
It was cracked from the beginning and I felt the wrapper was a bit thin and it had some multiple cracks. But that's, you know, that has nothing to do with the flavor. It's [01:45:00] maybe the construction. It was an anomaly from, you know, from the cigar point of view. And if your cigar was cracked before you lit
Senator: it, something happened in transit, obviously
Rooster: true.
That's
Senator: not a,
Rooster: or gizmo might have dropped it, who knows. But either way, I mean, uh, took shots over here, pagoda, what's going on. But the flavor was very good. I mean, I really enjoyed that cigar. Uh, I'm gonna take a point off just because of the construction issue, so I'm gonna give the cigar an eight.
Alright, Senator.
Pagoda: Oh, I thought it was gonna be a nine. That's what I thought too. I point off of the,
Rooster: well, without the, without the crack it would've been a nine.
Senator: Alright. I, I'm, that's impressive. Wow. It would've gotten a nine without the crack. Um, and again, the crack clearly something in transit, I'm sure you know, whether it was what they shipped.
Yeah. Mul, multiple cracks. Shipped it up to the retailer or, yeah. You know, when the retailer got to consumer, I think
Rooster: the crack and also the, also the fact that it was a bit loosely, I don't know if it loosely rolled the draw was just too open. I like, I like the, a little bit of [01:46:00] resistance. Yeah. Bit, a bit, bit more resistance.
Senator: Uh, so for me, I'm also at a solid eight. I'm shocked. To say that, I mean, truly I came into this as skeptical as I probably, you were hoping that
Gizmo: somebody called you with an emergency that you would've had to leave. That's how you started this today.
Senator: That is, I mean, I'm sorry you rated it an eight. You know, I have nothing, there's nothing wrong with some American tobacco being used, but when you said an American PI mean, we've never experienced that in our lives.
And the fact that we can't even think of a single other cigar that exists like that, just to me spelled trouble, there's no way that American tobacco can be good enough to make a piro. And this really was, I was satisfied all the way through this cigar. I, I really liked the, the sweet creaminess that it started with.
I like that it picked up a little bit and got more savory in the second, third, and then it, it, I think even a little bit in strength and [01:47:00] body, it picked up in that final third in a way that like kept my attention. And I think we talk a lot about how, you know, we'll have a good or great first half of a cigar, and then it really loses our attention in the second half, or especially the final third.
And I mean, I smoked this until my fingers burned, and this is not a small cigarette. That's
Rooster: rare.
Senator: It's rare.
Rooster: Yeah.
Senator: And, um, I, I just really enjoyed the flavor profile all the way throughout, you know, for mine at least, the construction was great. Um, the draw was perfect, just a little bit of resistance. It burned evenly.
Um, the ash held on for, you know, a long period of time. I had some flaking at some points, but nothing, you know, uh, too overly frustrating. I think the only reason for me, I didn't give it a nine or a 10 there. There weren't any like spectacular moments that I said like, wow, this is gonna crack my daily rotation.
This is one of the, you know, best cigars I've [01:48:00] had in a long time. Um, but it doesn't change the fact that all the way through, this is definitely a cigar. I would smoke again if I was in a retailer and I needed to buy there to, to sit there and smoke and I saw this, I'd happily pick it up and enjoy it again.
And, uh, it's a really cool celebration of, you know, America that like we can actually have an American p that I think most, if not all cigar smokers would find some meritan. Um, we talked about how this is not a strong cigar, a novice cigar smoker can enjoy it. We obviously smoke a whole lot and none of us found this to be too mild or too weak for us.
It delivers a lot of flavor despite how like smooth it is in terms of strength or body. So. Um, I'm really glad we did this. I, I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
Rooster: That's the beauty about, of this pod as well. I mean, not only the listeners sent us these cigars, so a huge shout out to, um, lizard Segal. Leave Lizard Siegel.
You know, had we, if we don't, if you don't [01:49:00] have this pod, I would've never picked a $20 American Perot ever.
Senator: No chance.
Rooster: No chance.
Gizmo: I don't know if you guys would've showed up tonight if you knew it was an American Perot. I wouldn't have.
Senator: All of a sudden, Senator has some emergency work, travel. I mean, he said JC Newman.
I'm like, uh, okay. I wasn't thinking it was gonna be American Tobacco. I mean, they're a well-known brand.
Rooster: Yeah.
Gizmo: Never judge a book by its cover. Yeah. We keep learning that over and over on the pod.
Grinder: Sure. Never judge this a car by its band. That's right.
Gizmo: So boys, for me it's also an eight I. I think piggybacking on senator's commentary there, I think the number one highlight of this cigar for me is that anyone can enjoy this cigar.
I think it was so easy to smoke. I think any cigar smoker can appreciate it. If you're looking for a cigar with America tobacco, I think this is a great choice for you. Um, let's go to the negatives now. For me, $20 price point on this cigar is way too high. I think it smoked way too fast. It's American made.
It's too [01:50:00] short of a small No. Mean seriously.
Senator: That that's the reason the price is that of
Gizmo: course. It's, I I still think it's too high though for what this is. Uh, my cigar was certainly a wind tunnel. There was no resistance. I, I'm a little envious of senator that his had a little bit of resistance. I feel like yours might have been the only one in the room.
No, mine too. Your, your had a little bit of resistance. I wish mine, did I echo what Rooster said? I feel like it was loosely packed or it was just, it was not tight enough and, uh, I had those moments of too much sweetness. It was overwhelming to me at some po you know, at some of the points there. But overall, I will say that I think the flavor was really good.
It was balanced. And I think the highlight for me of the cigar, there wasn't a moment of harshness. Yeah. Not one draw of harshness. And I think accomplishing that with tobacco that we, and I think a lot of consumers look down on American tobacco, aside from Connecticut, broadleaf and the wrapper. I don't think any cigar smoker out there is really excited to be.
Smoking a cigar purely made [01:51:00] of American tobacco. And I think for us tonight that's, this is a great exercise like Rooster said, as to why we do this. And we have found something that is balanced, not harsh, and I think has a pretty damn good flavor. Um, it tasted age to me, I think that probably goes to the harshest thing.
There wasn't a a, a moment where it, it tasted like it wasn't ready to be smoked. And, uh, it's a shocker. It's America Tobacco. The last third was my favorite. It went more savory. It lost some of that sweetness. I thought that was a really good thing. I was very happy about that. So for me, it's an eight and I'm very, very pleased with that score tonight.
I came in very pessimistic. I'll be very honest, I was concerned about this episode and this review tonight because I had no idea what to expect. But JC Newman did a great job with this American tobacco.
Pagoda: Pagoda. Well, Cuba, you in trouble? We've got some homegrown tobacco here. No, I'm just kidding. Uh, listen for me, it was a nine I, I think.
Wow. I really enjoyed the [01:52:00] cigar. I like the size. I know it's a little big for, uh, quite a few of, uh, uh, you know, uh, the lizards out here. But for me, it's a very comfortable size. I used to smoke a lot of toros, you know, I felt very comfortable with it. Uh, really, really good draw for me. It had a slight bit of resistance for me.
You know, it burnt really well. In fact, there was like, I think at 1.2 and a half to three inches of ashes. You, you know, ash, it was so, the smoke output was fantastic. The flavor profile was excellent. I think it maintained the flavor profile throughout the whole cigar. In fact, it slightly intensified, did become a little more savory towards the second half is like, uh, most of the leather as I mentioned, and very, very enjoyable.
And I think, uh, I would, I, and I think 20 bucks for a cigar. You know, that size is definitely, definitely, uh, you know, acceptable even for this value, value guy. When I pay 25 bucks, uh, for an old fashioned, I think I would, I would easily pick this one [01:53:00] up. Uh, you know, uh, for me it's a nine. Uh, really enjoy the experience tonight.
I.
Gizmo: All right, chef Ricky.
Chef Ricky: Yeah, so I think I would've given it a nine if it gave me a little bit more strength. The flavor was great. The second, third was my, my favorite part of, of the cigar. Uh, and that, that for me is where the sweetness and the savoriness just really kind of aligned and came into balance.
And then there was a moment in the trans in the transition from the second to the final third where it kind of fell a little flat for me, and then it went savory and I started to get some pepper, which I didn't dislike. 'cause that for me, that's, that's where I got some of those peaks and, and, and strength or fullness, if you will.
Um, but I did enjoy the cigar. I think, uh, just with a little bit more strength, it could have gotten a, a nine from me, from me. And, um, I think for this to work, to break my, you know, crack my regular rotation, it would probably need to be somewhere in the 15 to [01:54:00] $17 range. Um, or let's say 12 to 15 actually.
But that's probably really hard to do, being a hundred percent American poodle. Uh, so hey, credit to these guys for bringing this to the table and, and putting something out there that no one, I don't know that many people know exist. Um, and if you're gonna smoke this ever, you know, this is the time of year to do it.
So it's innate for me.
Grinder: All right. Grinder. I'm at an eight as well. I thought the construction, for me, the construction was great. Um, the burn line was, was razor sharp the whole time the ash held strong. Um, it started off peppery for me and then it kind of quickly subsided after like, I think maybe three quarters of an inch in, and then it really rounded out into the flavor profile that I think would echo a lot of what you guys said.
There was some creaminess. The woodiness is something I really enjoy. I like a woody like that. I wouldn't call it musty. I think the, there was musty on the mustiness on the cold [01:55:00] draw. When I smoked it. It was woody and it, you know, it carried through the, all the way to the, to the end, which was, um. Which was nice, you know, you know, I was expecting some strong transitions.
The transitions were very, uh, subtle and nuanced. Um, and overall, like I love the idea of the American Bureau as everyone said. I, you know, I think it takes a lot. It, it takes an effort to do that. So a lot of thought went into this, trying to source this tobacco from, you know, American farmers and, and, uh, bring it to market at this price point.
The price point is the price point. I wouldn't go outta my way for the cigar. I think from, if I were to have a demerit for it, I, similar to what Chef Ricky said, I want it a little more, uh, if I'm paying $20 and I did burn through it quite quick. Yeah. You know, and there are a lot of other cigars that are in that range, that price point range that I think I would get an equal.
If not, well [01:56:00] probably likely better experience. Not that this was bad, it's just, um. I typically like the mellow cigars. This was mellow. I just, maybe tonight I'm off. I just wanted a little more, I think the scotch
Chef Ricky: could've added, you know, maybe could've been a factor in that for sure.
Gizmo: Alright, boys, that puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the JC Newman, the American in Toro at an 8.2.
I think that's a great rating for the cigar.
TEAM AMERICA: Yeah.
Gizmo: Great rating for the cigar. Let's compare that to the other JC Newman we've done on the pod. We did the diamond crowned TAA 2023. The shark on episode 134 scored a 9.0.
Grinder: That was a great cigar.
Gizmo: All right, boys, a great night tonight we have to say,
TEAM AMERICA: fuck yeah.[01:57:00]
Gizmo: Well done, Senator. I think band played that last time. Mm-hmm. Uh, when we did the, he's, he sang that last time and he sang it, the Pledge of Allegiance episode. Uh, so, uh, awesome. We have to congratulate Lizard Shawnee Broer Lizard of the Week, uh, for his great, uh, message on YouTube. We really appreciate his comment.
And thanks to all the listeners who sent some great emails. We have some we didn't get to. Uh, we're gonna continue discussing this Cuban versus New World cadence thing over the next few episodes. The level of great email has been immense, so I will be sharing your thoughts, uh, over the next few weeks, so stay tuned for that.
Let's review one more time, boys. The Avalor Aona scored a 7.6, and the JC Newman, the American in Toro, scored an 8.2. What a great night, boys. We have to thank our sponsor, Fabrica five. They're awesome, a great partner to us, and everything is back in stock. And like we said earlier, the Bond Roberts 1 0 9 is now available on COH cigars.
So go to FABRICA zero zero five.com, use [01:58:00] our code, buy some of those, and then go to COH cigars and buy some bond Roberts 1 0 9. We really appreciate you supporting them because by doing that. You support us. Thank you to Lizard Siegel for sending these cigars. We really appreciate it. He was very patient.
He sent them quite some time ago. I've been holding onto him for this episode. So, uh, we really appreciate when lizards send us, uh, cigars. It's very kind. So a great night boys. And, uh, we'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, lounge lizards pod.com.
That's lounge lizards PO d.com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you wanna reach out, say hello. Tell us what you're smoking if, email us hello@loungelizardspod.com. You can also find us on Instagram at Lounge Lizards Pod.
We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next [01:59:00] week.