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Step into the dark side of public speaking with “The Public Speaking Horror Show,” where we expose the chilling fears and epic stage fails of speakers who’ve lived to tell the tale. Join us as we dig into their nightmares and discover the killer tips that turned their terror into triumph.
Laura Reid: [00:00:03] Welcome back to The Public Speaking Horror Show, where we help you slay the stage and survive the spotlight. Buckle up, because today's guest knows just how to make your brand as unforgettable as your mic drop moment on stage. She is the powerhouse behind RBL media, that's Rebel Media, because she's all about helping bold entrepreneurs and course creators ditch the ordinary and build brands that stand out, sell out, and slay. Based in Hawaii, she doesn't just design websites, she crafts digital experiences that blend strategy, storytelling and killer design. With over a decade of experience as a creator, a creative director and digital strategist, she knows exactly how to make your brand go from meh to magnetic. So if you're ready to break the mold, own your voice and turn your brand into a business powerhouse, you're in for a treat today. Welcome to the show, Pua.
Pua Pakele: [00:01:09] Oh my gosh. Can I keep you? And just anytime I need an introduction. That was so awesome.
Laura Reid: [00:01:17] Oh thank you I appreciate it. All right. So the first part of this experience today is called the Killer 13. These are rapid fire questions and just short answer to give us a little intro to who you are. We are so happy to have you here today. Are you ready to play the Killer 13?
Pua Pakele: [00:01:40] I am so ready.
Laura Reid: [00:01:42] All right, here we go.
Pua Pakele: [00:01:43] All my family feud dreams coming true.
Laura Reid: [00:01:45] Yeah. All right. Number one, if your brand had a theme song, what would it be?
Pua Pakele: [00:01:53] Oh.
Laura Reid: [00:01:55] You haven't thought of that before?
Pua Pakele: [00:01:57] You know what's funny? I do martial arts and I love watching UFC and I'm always like, what would my walkout song be? But it changes, like, every day.
Laura Reid: [00:02:07] What is it today?
Pua Pakele: [00:02:08] Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh the pressure. I can't, you know what, also like I'm really bad at names of songs.
Laura Reid: [00:02:17] Oh let's see.
Pua Pakele: [00:02:19] With a super good beat. I know it's that. Probably from the 90s or 2000 era. I know it's that. Let's get... Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:02:31] I'm imagining like, this is your fight song like that one, that anthem. But I don't know if it's rebellious enough.
Pua Pakele: [00:02:40] Something like that, but, like, remixed over a beat.
Laura Reid: [00:02:44] Oh, yeah, that would be good.
Pua Pakele: [00:02:45] I would actually, yeah, I'd have a DJ create something custom is really the answer.
Laura Reid: [00:02:49] Oh, there we go. Yes, of course, all right. A custom song, I love it. Okay. Number two, what's the most rebellious thing that you've ever done?
Pua Pakele: [00:03:00] Oh my gosh, I'm kind of a prude, so I don't know. I snuck out of my bedroom window to hang out with my friends in high school. Like, that's like the first thing that comes to my mind. I don't know. I don't...
Laura Reid: [00:03:14] Did you get caught?
Pua Pakele: [00:03:15] I started out in my own business. That's pretty rebellious.
Laura Reid: [00:03:17] Exactly. That is so big. I know that's huge. That's huge. I love it.
Pua Pakele: [00:03:25] To answer your question.
Laura Reid: [00:03:28] Well, the bedroom window. Was it, like, up pretty high. Did you have to jump?
Pua Pakele: [00:03:32] No, it was like a screen I had to pop out of. And it's not like I went to do anything bad. I just went to, like, hang out with my friends at nighttime. I think we, like, went to a beach close by and sat and hung out. And then I went home. Like it was... yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:03:44] Oh, you're so good. All right, all right. Number three. What's the scariest website design trend that you wish would just die forever.
Pua Pakele: [00:03:54] Long sales pages.
Laura Reid: [00:03:57] Oh, yeah. Okay. Long sales pages. Okay, that's a good tip. Right. If you could steal the branding genius of any company, what would it be?
Pua Pakele: [00:04:10] Oh, Nike.
Laura Reid: [00:04:11] Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Just do it. And their commercials are so good. And, like, visually, just keep remembering them.
Pua Pakele: [00:04:21] Like, I don't like everything that they stand for as a company, but, like, branding is just... yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:04:29] Yeah. Absolutely. All right. Number five. What's a completely useless talent that you have?
Pua Pakele: [00:04:37] Um, I can shake my eyeballs back and forth.
Laura Reid: [00:04:40] Oh. Can you?
Pua Pakele: [00:04:42] Yeah, yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:04:43] Can you do it now? Oh, my God.
Pua Pakele: [00:04:47] Give me a use for that because I haven't found one yet.
Laura Reid: [00:04:48] I love it. We're gonna work that in. I mean, it's terrifying.
Pua Pakele: [00:04:56] That is.
Laura Reid: [00:04:58] So good. All right, number six. I did not see that one coming. You're stranded on an island, let's say, like Molokai or something. What's the one design tool that you you would have with you?
Pua Pakele: [00:05:12] Pen and paper.
Laura Reid: [00:05:14] Mmmm, perfect. I love it, the simplicity of that. Awesome. Number seven. What's the worst thing someone can do on their website that makes you scream inside? I guess besides the design, long, I mean, long pitch pages.
Pua Pakele: [00:05:30] Blurry photos or only long blocks of text that no one's going to read.
Laura Reid: [00:05:36] Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Do you see that a lot out there?
Pua Pakele: [00:05:41] Old websites for sure. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:05:44] What's your most used app?
Pua Pakele: [00:05:47] Mhm. In business or in personal?
Laura Reid: [00:05:53] Mhm.
Pua Pakele: [00:05:53] They're different.
Laura Reid: [00:05:54] Yeah. Either one. Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:05:57] So, I'm an Instagram scroller. I don't post, like I don't actually use it. I'm terrible at using it. But I love to watch stories and I'll just, I'm a doom scroller. And I think unfortunately that's probably my most used personal app. In business, I use, I think I use Slack the most because that's how I communicate with my team and our clients.
Laura Reid: [00:06:16] Oh, really? Okay. Very cool. Number nine. What's your favorite place of refuge in Hawaii?
Pua Pakele: [00:06:26] Ooh. Well, the ocean, period. Really, like any ocean in Hawaii is where I'm so super happy. I love one of my favorite spots is this little beach access in Waimanalo.
Laura Reid: [00:06:44] Ah, beautiful. I love that. You're in the right place. Number ten. What's the weirdest thing you've ever googled?
Pua Pakele: [00:06:54] Oh, God. I want to say probably it was something for my dog.
Laura Reid: [00:07:02] Oh, okay.
Pua Pakele: [00:07:05] How do you get your dog to stop peeing on a pole? I don't know. I don't, that's a, I will get back to you.
Laura Reid: [00:07:10] No, I relate to that one. We just adopted a little feral baby wild pig. And so we've been googling, yeah, wild pig things. She's so cute, Henrietta. She's cute now, I mean, I don't know what's going to happen in, like, a year, but yeah, I relate to that with animal stuff. It's like, yeah, we're like, can pigs eat, you know, bananas or...?
Pua Pakele: [00:07:34] Yeah, yeah. All right, number 11, your dream celebrity client just DM'd you. Who is it?
Pua Pakele: [00:07:43] Mhm. Okay. Hey, The Rock just came to mind, but he's actually my dream celebrity podcast interview.
Laura Reid: [00:07:52] Oh, he would be so fun.
Pua Pakele: [00:07:53] It would be so fun. Yeah. I, you know, I would build his website too.
Laura Reid: [00:08:00] He might not even have one because he doesn't need one. But, you know, just for fun.
Pua Pakele: [00:08:04] Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:08:05] Yeah. Right.
Pua Pakele: [00:08:06] I don't know, I guess that's my answer.
Laura Reid: [00:08:08] I could see it being just one page and it just says I'm The Rock. Like, that's all you need to know. Like it just, yeah, that's it.
Pua Pakele: [00:08:15] Just a picture. In the turtleneck and the fanny pack. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:08:17] Yeah. So cute. Let's see, number 12. You're in a horror movie. Are you the villain or the first to die?
Pua Pakele: [00:08:27] Oh, God. Both of these are awful.
Laura Reid: [00:08:34] I know, sorry.
Pua Pakele: [00:08:36] No, I, you know what I don't, I don't want to be the villain, but I don't want to die. I'll be the villain.
Laura Reid: [00:08:43] Yeah. Okay. All right. Good choice. I think it's a good choice. All right. Number 13. Here we go. Last one. Finish this sentence. A rebellious entrepreneur should always...
Pua Pakele: [00:08:56] ... do whatever the f they want.
Laura Reid: [00:08:58] Yeah. I love that. Yes. Thank you, Pua. You survived the Killer 13, and you killed it. I have to say. Absolutely. Cool. So this is where we come to our more deep dive questions. And I also want to hear, though, if you've ever had an experience, because this is The Public Speaking Horror Show after all, have you ever had an experience where a speaking opportunity that you had just kind of went sideways and it wasn't as good as you thought? Okay. Your face says yes. And then what did you learn from it?
Pua Pakele: [00:09:40] Oh, yeah. I mean, I know a lot of times people will tell me that the experience that I had, you know, somebody in the audience that I knew or something, was not the actual experience. So there is that, right? I'm like, oh my God, I totally blew it. I tanked, I should have said this. My armpit sweat was showing. I, you know, you know all the things, right? And people were like, no, I thought it was fine. It was great. So I do think we're our own worst critic a lot of times, but I feel like I'll like, dig myself into a hole is kind of my default, where I'll just keep talking, thinking it's gonna fix it when it really makes things worse. If I do that today, now you know why. Yeah, I yeah, what was the actual question?
Laura Reid: [00:10:31] Yeah a speaking of event or something where things just didn't go the way you wanted.
Pua Pakele: [00:10:36] Yeah. You know, I'm lucky that a lot of the things that are coming to mind right now, in those moments, there was someone to bail me out. I'm thinking about something very recently where I presented with a group and I was spiraling. I was just, it wasn't a subject that I felt so super confident in, but I had been asked to come in and speak about it, and I had tried to prepare as much as I could, but due to my like, unfamiliarity with it, I just started rambling and the facilitator came in and was like asking me questions and posing questions to the group to kind of like reel it all in. And that was just, oh thank goodness. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:11:20] What was the lesson that came out of that experience for you?
Pua Pakele: [00:11:25] That audience participation can be a really beautiful tool to help reset and reframe and just realign a space, which is something I would not have called upon before that experience.
Laura Reid: [00:11:41] Yeah, absolutely. Especially when you're feeling a little uncertain. You don't have to keep talking. You can, like, redirect it to the audience. Right? And then let them sort of shift the energy. And yeah, that's a really good tip for that as well. And everything else is so relatable. I think when we're, we don't feel really firm in the content we're sharing. And we've been maybe, what we've been asked to speak on is a stretch for us, I think two things like either maybe you just say no to that one, right? Or yeah, or you ask like the organizers too, like, I'm not really comfortable with that or figure out a twist. Like, what if I spoke more on this? Or just super research the topic, but it's always hard when it's something new we've been asked to speak on, I think, you know, and you have to kind of get through that first time of figuring it out, whether you're comfortable speaking with it or not. But yeah, we do...
Pua Pakele: [00:12:36] I can tell you what it was.
Laura Reid: [00:12:37] ... dig a hole. Oh, yeah. Go ahead.
Pua Pakele: [00:12:39] It might be useful. So actually, a mutual friend of ours invited me to speak. She's a lecturer, a professor at a university, and she's teaching an economics class. And so she wanted me to come in and be a guest lecturer. And I was like, I don't know the first thing about college level econ, but I'm happy to come in and share if it can somehow relate to, like, branding, web design, whatever. So I ended up putting together a, I thought a decent presentation that I think maybe linked some things. It was sort of marketing focused, but I felt a lot of pressure to reconnect it to the economics base. And because I wasn't so super familiar with that, I had trouble linking things. And so I was like, I felt like I was floundering, and I actually don't think that I was because economics is such a broad topic. And yeah, you know, we ended up talking about like advertising and the gig economy and like social media versus traditional marketing. Like it was such a fun conversation, but only after it became a conversation instead of me feeling like I was up there trying to, like, lead the future economists of the world with no background in economics.
Laura Reid: [00:13:56] Yeah, it's such a good point, too, how when you shift it, like you had a fine presentation and I'm sure it was, you know, totally fine. But then shifting it to the conversation, that's when, like you said, it just turned into a fun conversation. And I think the best presentations or lectures, that's what they become. Whether it's a rhetorical question or not, it's like keeping it and that conversational tone and adding an element of fun, right? It always just elevates it no matter what. And it's going to make it more compelling. But also they're going to remember it more and have better takeaways. So yeah, so I'm sure you killed it. It sounds like it was, yeah. So, RBL stands for rebel. Correct?
Pua Pakele: [00:14:40] Yes.
Laura Reid: [00:14:41] So what does being a rebel in branding and business mean to you? And you know what? Like, made you lean towards that as your own branding?
Pua Pakele: [00:14:52] Yeah. This is the second, I almost said third, but I think it's the second brand for this business. And I have, so maybe, I don't know, 12 years ago now, I took a quiz. It was like an online quiz from, I believe, Gretchen Rubin. I could be wrong, but I think that's who it was. And it was some kind of personality test to help you figure out, like, how do you work best and how can people work well with you. And there was like the pleaser, the... Basically. Like, who do you feel accountable to? Is it yourself? Can you self motivate? Do you need to feel accountable to someone else? Do you need information in order to get something done? Or are you just a rebel who listens to nobody and is accountable to nobody and you're the worst person ever to collaborate or something, you know? And I remember getting rebel on that. And so it became this thing with, like, I had a former business partner and we would always talk about like, oh, my rebel tendencies and blah, blah, blah. And I just always really resonated with that mindset of like, being an entrepreneur, you have to be able to go against societal norms, against the school system, against the traditional hierarchy of careers.
Pua Pakele: [00:16:21] And, you know, so I just feel like anybody that resonates with the fact that they had to do something that was not normal to create this thing that is now allowing them to make an impact and make a living, those are the people that I want to attract into my life and my business. And so it was just kind of a no brainer to weave that in somehow. And RBL really is just rebel without the e's because Rebel Media with the e's was taken. That was not available. Yeah. Okay. And so people are like, and people do call it RBL media. And I like that because there's a little bit of mystery, like, what does it stand for? And I did a presentation for a group of high schoolers for their career day, and I was like, if you guys have any ideas on what that could stand for, like, let me know. And they were like, read between the lines. And I was like, oh.
Laura Reid: [00:17:13] My gosh, that's so good. Yeah. That's good.
Pua Pakele: [00:17:16] So I don't know. But yeah, that's that's really why I decided to name it that.
Laura Reid: [00:17:21] Well it's brilliant. And I mean, for speaking to, I think embracing your rebel archetype works really well because you're not following the rules so much and doing what is expected and what you think you should do, and that enables you to, I think, be more confident and bold and have more fun. So I think it works so well too in branding. You know, for listeners out there who you know, are thinking about rebranding or how to kind of uplevel their brand a little bit, you know, thinking about, you know, how you can break some of the rules to stand out a little bit more and just embracing that more bold part of yourself, you know, that part of you that will open up the window, push out the screen and go, you know, escape your home as a teenager. Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:18:06] And I think people kind of mistake it as like, well, I have to have this really grungy, edgy brand in order to be rebellious.
Laura Reid: [00:18:13] Yeah, yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:18:14] The fact that you are in this space makes you a rebel, so...
Laura Reid: [00:18:20] Absolutely. Like you said, really the most rebellious thing you've done is just, you know, start your own business. That takes a huge amount of guts and, you know, confidence and faith and, you know, rebellion to do that. It kind of goes against, you know, so much of how we're kind of brought up and, you know, finding our right career and, and all of that, working a 9 to 5 job. So, I think that's yeah, it's such a good point, too, because rebellion is, it's actually very sophisticated.
Pua Pakele: [00:18:48] Yes.
Laura Reid: [00:18:49] It's not a grungy movement at all. It takes a lot of know how and, you know, boldness stepping into that and clarity, all of those things.
Pua Pakele: [00:18:59] Yeah. I love that you said that. That's such a good quote.
Laura Reid: [00:19:02] Good. Well, I wanted to dig into some of the horrors of, like, DIY websites and branding go wrong. Like you mentioned it a little bit in the Killer 13, but what are some of the most common mistakes on websites that just make you cringe? And how can you help our listeners with some of that?
Pua Pakele: [00:19:23] Well, first, if you have DIY'd your site, like please don't just think that you need to throw it in the trash. It is, we do what we have to do to get launched, you know? And if that means DIY'ing anything in your business, do it. Like, that's admirable. And then once you do, you know it, it's a give and take, right? Like, we don't want to start without knowing very clearly who we are, what we do, who we serve, who's your target audience, what is your, what suite of services, what are your price points, what are your competitors doing? And I know that like, people are like, oh, I don't want to look at them as competitors, they're collaborators. I'm the same. I love knowing exactly who's around me, doing great work in the same space so that I can refer to them. Like, that's not what I mean. But it's we have to be able to show up within that industry with a competitive, you know, suite of services and price range. So just being very clear, like, know all of that before you start building anything because it's a lot easier, it's a lot faster once you have that clarity. And then once you do, there are tiny things that you can do to make sure that your site is actually working for you as a tool, rather than just something that you think that you need to have in order to be seen as a legitimate business. And then the other part of that is like people will say, oh, well, you know, as soon as I have a website, I'll be able to sell.
Pua Pakele: [00:20:53] As soon as I have a website, people will find me. Not really true, people need to know that you're there. So you need to have a marketing, some sort of marketing strategy in place to get people to your website. And that doesn't have to cost you money, right? You don't have to run ads, you don't have to pay somebody to do your marketing, but you have to have a plan so people know that it's there. So that's one thing I just want to put out there. But in terms of like if you have a website and you're like, oh, I wonder if it is working for me because I don't know how many people visit it, because I don't really get that many sales. Looking at things like, is your messaging clear and do you have very clear descriptors of your brand, your services, your target audience high up on the page? So this starts to kind of play into some very basic SEO, search engine optimization, strategies. The little things like that, you'll notice small upticks in your site visitors. The other thing is, and this one, a lot of people don't really do very often, especially when you DIY, but making sure that your images are labeled properly. So, you know, when you Google something and you're like if you Google like Laura Reid and all of these images of Laura show up in that Google image search, those are being pulled from what's called metadata. And if I have an image of Laura on my website, but it's called IMG_492, which is what it shows up as in my phone, that image won't show up on a search.
Laura Reid: [00:22:37] Oh, I had no idea of that.
Pua Pakele: [00:22:39] Yeah. So like little things, right? And like, all of these little things start to compound and slowly drive up how people find your website and the traffic that can come to you. So yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:22:52] That's why you're such a pro, though, all those details and things you might not know, just creating your own website. You know, that's why it's good to consult, I think, with an expert, too, if you want to take it to that next level as well. So another thing that I know you help with is course creation, and creating, you know, videos for your course, all of that where it comes to public speaking. Can you share with us some of your tips for that and what not to do? And it sounds like, did you have something else to add to what we're just talking about?
Pua Pakele: [00:23:19] It perfectly correlates with this.
Laura Reid: [00:23:20] Oh, good. Okay.
Pua Pakele: [00:23:21] So if you're a course creator, you probably have some video content. And I had a woman on my podcast, her name is Bernadette Marciniak, she's a photographer and videographer in California, I think. And she told me something that blew my mind. If you have video on your website, you can increase your searchability, it was something like, I don't want to get the the number wrong, but it was significant. Like if you guys want I'll find the podcast and share it with you.
Laura Reid: [00:23:51] Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:23:52] And so if you do have an online course, even better, right? Create a little promo reel for your course or anything else that you do. Right. Just get on camera, talk for three minutes about what you do, who you serve, what they can expect, what they can find on your website and put it there. I recommend putting it on YouTube and then embedding that video on your website. Because YouTube is owned by Google and they are the top one and two search engines in the world. So all that will also boost your searchability just by being there and having a title and a caption that has all the right words. Like pro tip, but when it comes to courses, I really think any business owner ever on the planet can create an online course and utilize that to enhance your business, to serve your clients, to expand your reach, to serve more people. Because we can only, let's say you're a coach, right? If you have one on one coaching, maybe you have group coaching, you can only do so much of that in the course of a day and a week. But you can have a standalone course that reaches people worldwide without you having to expend any more energy other than what you did to just create it that one time. So if, yeah, that was actually my most recent podcast episode last week or this week. So check that out too, because it's a lot of times people are like, oh, I'm a this, I don't see where I could have a course. I'm a, you know, electrician, I'm a realtor. There are so many ways that even a traditional trade could utilize something like an online course to enhance your client experience. And it doesn't take as much effort as you would think. You really just need a phone.
Laura Reid: [00:25:51] Yeah. And there's people out there, like I remember you sharing with me once, like, sometimes the more, you know, specific like, topics or bizarre kind of random topics, but you're an expert in that, can be really successful. And I think you shared a success story with me about that. Yeah. Do you remember what that was?
Pua Pakele: [00:26:11] Was it the door hanger?
Laura Reid: [00:26:13] I think so. Yeah, something like that. Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:26:15] I went to a conference, and this was a conference that was around creating memberships and communities. And this woman was speaking about, like, she has this thriving community and membership. Four times a year, she mails out door hanger kits and they're like, seasonal. I don't know if she still does it. And I don't know if it's still four times a year, but she'll like jump on a live Zoom or something, and like everybody gets together and they paint their door hangers and they change it out every few, every so often. And she has like hundreds of people in this membership. It's wild. And she was just such a, like, quirky woman. And I just remember being like, anybody can do anything they want.
Laura Reid: [00:27:00] Yeah, absolutely.
Pua Pakele: [00:27:01] It's just a matter of doing it.
Laura Reid: [00:27:04] Yeah, just a matter of doing it. I mean, that's the thing. I think there's so many, you know, myths we tell ourselves about why we shouldn't do it, you know, and you've uncovered some of those. I mean, you said anyone with a phone can record a course. So, like, what are some of your tips for making it easier on yourself? But, you know, just with the tools that you already have to make it compelling.
Pua Pakele: [00:27:27] Yeah. Are the phones nowadays are just like, I mean, this thing, it's old. This is like 3 or 4 years old and it's, you can view in 4K, ancient, right?
Laura Reid: [00:27:38] Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:27:39] And the video quality is so good. It's so good. The one thing I would recommend purchasing, if you did purchase anything, which again, like you don't need to, is a mic of some sort just for good audio quality. But really, like if you have good lighting, so if you can even stand in front of a window, you don't need to buy lights. And back here I have a lamp, and that's on purpose because it actually brightens behind you as a subject. So it will kind of pop you out of the frame. This is a lamp that was like by the bed. So like it does not have to, again like don't go out and buy like a huge studio setup. Make it, make whatever space in your home look nice behind you. From here to here. It's like six feet, you know? And really just show up and share what, you know, openly, genuinely with an intention to serve. Like, your content is always going to overshadow anything that might not be so super perfect with your production.
Laura Reid: [00:28:52] I love that, and I just read, you know, an email that you sent out to your subscribers this morning, actually. And it was about course creation. And I love one of the things you said was like, start with the end in mind. And really, you know who that audience is and who you're serving, right? It's so important.
Pua Pakele: [00:29:08] Yeah. Yeah. That's huge. I mean, we're all in the business of selling transformations, right? And so if you have that transformation in mind, that result, and work backwards, that's how you create your course content. That's also how you can write a book. That's how you can create podcast content, like it's, you can chunk that down as small as you need to, because we're all just looking to provide enough value to give somebody some kind of transformation.
Laura Reid: [00:29:39] Mhm. I love that so much. Now when it comes to public speaking, I would think most people are working from a bit of a script when they're creating their videos for a course or a video to put on their website. Do you have any tips that can help them still sound conversational? Or are there apps that help, like with a teleprompter? Or should they just memorize what they want to say and try to say it? Or what are your tips around that? And what are, what's resonating with more people?
Pua Pakele: [00:30:07] Yeah, there's, this can be a point of like not pressure, but this this particular thing can stop people in their tracks because they feel like, oh, I have to get my script perfect. And then I have to deliver it perfectly. And that's part of what holds people up, is they start to like, oh, I didn't nail it, I have to do another take. Oh, you know, like, I wish I said this, I should have said this, I have to fix this. So what I would say is like, do not script out every word. You also share this advice when you're coaching people on how to speak. And this is something that like, and I've told you this before, when I start creating scripts for anything, a speech, a course, whatever, I will write down every word, like in your slide notes, I will write full sentences even though you've always told me not to. And true story, you coached me for a presentation that I gave a few weeks ago, and I didn't listen to you, and I did, I wrote, it just feels better to me. Like I just write it. And then there's the pressure to say all of it, and it just totally takes you out of the moment.
Pua Pakele: [00:31:19] And then once you start to get into it, I realized that I just needed to trust my own knowledge of the content and utilizing the minimal slides that I had as just a way to sort of like remember the general concept, but trust and know that you know what to say. And then I didn't look at it again. So I think the same thing applies for courses. And I'm in a course right now, it's phenomenal. I mean, it's so good. But I see her reading a script in her videos and it is so distracting to me. And I don't know if it's just because of who I am or like I pay attention. Like I don't know because she has, so her slides are in like the big window and then she's like small in the corner. But the slides don't change very often. So like my eye keeps going back to her and I just see her eyeballs. First of all, they're not looking at the camera and then they're, I can totally tell she's reading a script and it bothers me.
Laura Reid: [00:32:22] Yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:32:23] So I don't know. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:32:25] No, that's such good advice. I think that would bother me too. And I'm wondering why, because it's still, you're getting the same content, but I think what it is maybe is that we know we could read it too. Like, she could just, it could almost be an email or a PDF of some sort. But what we're paying for, right, is, oh, perfect.
Pua Pakele: [00:32:49] I spent two hours in a meeting. This could have been an email.
Laura Reid: [00:32:52] Yes, exactly.
Pua Pakele: [00:32:53] A two hour course, it could have been an email. I agree.
Laura Reid: [00:32:55] Yeah. Because we're not getting them then. You know it's different when you're having a conversation. And even though maybe they memorized a script or something, I mean, I'm sure the celebrities that do masterclass that teach masterclass, like they, I'm sure they worked from some kind of outline to start, but we know when they're sitting in that big leather chair or whatever they're doing, it's like it's just like they're talking, I feel like they're talking to us. Like, I watched one with Steve Martin about comedy, and I loved it so much, and I felt like I was sitting across from him and he was having a conversation with me about comedy and comedy writing, and I was like, it's so worth it, you know? But if I saw it, you know, you wouldn't see him, right, reading a script and, yeah. And that, it does, it's so distracting. So that's incredibly good advice, I think. And, you know, and also even, yeah, in your notes, if you're giving a presentation and you have your slides and you have your little, you know, speaker notes there, the problem with having full sentences is I think you would do fine without them, just having maybe a couple key words to remind you of what you're talking, you know, what you're speaking about. So in your peripheral vision, maybe it could be like, oh yeah, I'm doing this, this, this, but because you have those whole sentences your brain is telling you, but everything's right there, like, look at me, right? Everything's right, like, why are you talking from, you know, your head and just speaking from your heart, like, because yeah, this is what you're supposed to be saying. So I think it does, it kind of battle, you create this conflict that doesn't really need to be there. And if you just practice and then trust, then that goes away, right?
Pua Pakele: [00:34:32] Totally. And I think you may have said this too, where like if you lose your spot, you're just, there's like that moment where you're like, oh my God, where was I? And that's my problem with teleprompters, or like there's like a lot of teleprompter apps, and there's actually now AI that can move your eyeballs. So like it allows you to read and like your eyes can be over here, but the recording will show your eyeballs... It's really creepy. Yeah. Oh, but again, like, I think that people are like, oh, what teleprompter stuff should I use? And I'm like, don't, just don't, just don't do it. Like, you know, if you're doing a course, you better be creating a course around something that you know enough to teach, but trust that, you know.
Laura Reid: [00:35:17] Trust it and then know that it doesn't have to be perfect. I think as well, like I've recorded things before where I've just gone back, I've deleted, recorded over and over because I decided I said 'um' too many times or I forgot what I was going to say for a second, or that's okay, because it just makes it more authentic. And then we know for sure you're not reading from a script, right? And audiences in general, I think, are very forgiving when it's authentic mistakes. You know what I mean? Like saying um, or forgetting yourself for a minute and just being like, oh, shoot, what was I going to say, oh, yeah. That's fine. Like, that's much more forgiving than reading it perfectly and knowing that everyone knowing you're reading. So yeah.
Pua Pakele: [00:35:59] Want to bet that in the near future AI is actually going to start to add in ums to make it seem more human?
Laura Reid: [00:36:08] That's so, that's such a good point. Yeah, I can see that happening for sure. I mean, when I went from having to compete in Toastmasters speeches where literally, you know, I always tell my clients like, don't worry, no one's judging you. But like, I'm literally being judged and there's a judge that counts your filler words, like they're counting them and deducting points from my speech. So I know that's happening and then I went from that to learning how to do stand up comedy. And the coach I was working with for stand up comedy, she's like, Laura, this is like, it's a really funny story, but you have to unlearn this like polished-ness, like you just speak like you're a human and make some mistakes and just be like yourself, right? And so I had to unlearn a lot of that and kind of find that balance, you know, between this like search for a perfect speech, which is what an organization like Toastmasters does, where I learned so much from them, I have, you know, give them so much credit. But then there's that authenticity, you know, that just makes us human.
Pua Pakele: [00:37:10] It's what makes you such a good speaking coach because you have that beautiful balance. You do. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:37:16] Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. So oh my gosh, like this time went by so quickly. Before we wrap up and share where everybody can find you and follow you and learn from you, could you leave our audience with, like, one final insight or message that you just you really want everyone to know?
Pua Pakele: [00:37:36] Do the thing. And there's, so there's this dichotomy that we often get stuck in. And it's this balance between what was it called? It's in the book Atomic Habits by James Clear, and he, it's like motion versus action. And when we're in motion, we feel like we're doing things and we're being productive. But it could be like, oh, I'm just moving this pen from here to here, and I'm just organizing my stuff and I'm in motion, but I'm not actually taking strategic action. But I feel good about myself, like I did something. And so really recognizing they're both very valuable. And I'm a planner, I love planning, like, if I'm, if I have a goal, like, I'm going to, let's say I'm going to run the marathon, oh my gosh, planning my running schedule is just the best thing ever. Running is the worst thing ever, but it's the one thing you have to do to become better at running, right? So it's like, it's easier to say than to do. But as long as you have awareness around it, it's so powerful to actually get to where you want to go and create the things you want to create and do the things you want to do when you remember to still weave action into the motion that you're doing. Yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:39:02] That is such a powerful, meaningful message for everybody. It's funny, I think I just had reread that chapter in Atomic Habits not too long ago. But yeah, I love how you do, you know, say it like, do the thing. What I call it is, like, productive procrastination when you're just in motion, like, oh, I need to watch one more course or I need to do that, you know, read this book first or do this first instead of just do the thing. Make mistakes, learn from it, but just do it, right. And that's what drives everything forward, right? Beautiful. Where can people find you and stalk you in a non-creepy way, of course. And work with you.
Pua Pakele: [00:39:45] Yeah. So everything can be gotten to, that wasn't good, if you go to my website, you can find all the rest. RBLmedia.co. My social media platform of choice is Instagram. You wouldn't know it if you went to it right now, but I'm actively working on a plan where I can take action on it and be more visible there. So you can find me there at RBL.media. And, yeah, shoot me a message. I love, I love to just, like, jump on and strategize and talk about things. And if you want me to look at your website like those are some of my favorite things to do, so don't feel like you can't reach out. I would love to support you and geek out on branding and websites and all that with you. So yeah.
Laura Reid: [00:40:33] Pua is the best. Thank you for sharing all that, such a pro. And just full disclosure, like Pua and I have worked together, she did my website, which I'm just so thrilled with and happy with, and it wouldn't be what it is without her and her expertise and creativity too. And just bringing that idea that, you know, getting in touch with, like what makes you you and your brand you and you don't have to do it the way everyone else does it. But then she also knows, you know, what should be added to it that is just going to make it reach more people, right? So you can help more people. So yeah, I highly recommend reaching out and even just subscribing to your newsletter. I get so many great pointers and tips, all of that. But you in person, there's, you know, so much value in that. Thank you for being here, Pua.
Pua Pakele: [00:41:17] Thank you so much.
Laura Reid: [00:41:18] And that wraps up, your welcome, another episode of The Public Speaking Horror Show. Thank you for listening. And keep slaying it, everyone. Thank you.