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Orthodox Christian Parenting, hosted by Faithtree Resources Executive Director (and mom of four!) Michelle Moujaes, is a weekly podcast for parents and grandparents navigating the holy struggle of raising kids in the Orthodox Faith. Each episode offers honesty, encouragement, and practical wisdom from the Church—creating space to exhale, freedom from the pressure to be perfect, and openness to grow as you raise children who are deepening their knowledge and love of Christ.
Welcome to Orthodox Christian Parenting, where we bring the church's timeless wisdom into the everyday chaos of raising kids. I'm Michelle Mujaias, we are welcoming back Doctor Philip Mamalakis, author of the classic Orthodox parenting book, Parenting Toward the Kingdom. Doctor Mamalakis teaches pastoral care at Hellenic College Holy Cross Greek Orthodox School of Theology, and he is a great friend and longtime collaborator with us over here at Faith Tree. And most importantly, he is a father of seven children and now a grandfather of two grandchildren.
Michelle Moujaes:And this episode's gonna be fun. We are gonna do a speed round of q and a related to parenting. We reached out and asked you to tell us what you wanted to know related to parenting, and you responded far more than we ever could have expected. So thank you. Let's just jump right in.
Michelle Moujaes:Philip, are you ready?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I am ready. Thanks for having me, Michelle.
Michelle Moujaes:We're so happy you're here. So let's just go. We have a bunch of questions. The first one is, my teens are completely dismissive of me and any requests that I make regarding chores or helping around the house. What am I doing wrong?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So I'm gonna change it a little bit because I don't wanna hear what I'm doing wrong because this parent, I'm imagining a mom. We don't really know. Let's imagine a mom. Let's imagine she's trying her best. And when someone's trying her best, it's really hard to say you're still doing something wrong.
Michelle Moujaes:Fair.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So I'm gonna suggest, oftentimes in these situations, a mom has a hard time setting clear, firm limits.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? And it's oftentimes the mom who's more accommodating, more relational, will say things like, okay, but try not to let it happen again. And best case, the the dad might be the one who's strict, and I say it once, and that's it. So if you if you're like that when your kids are little, when they grow up to be teenagers, they learn, I don't really need to listen to mom. Okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And then mom is like, nobody listens to me, and that's a hard position to be in. So how can we correct that is number one, I would want to suggest you go talk to someone because this stuff doesn't change overnight. And what that someone is gonna help you learn to do is to learn to stand up to your preteens and teens and learn how to set clear, firm limits.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay. Who are they talking to? Their spouse, their priest,
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:their counselor? Their priest, a parent, educator, or a therapist. Okay. And recognize that I, as a mom, need to change the way I am setting limits and teaching my boys or my kids in this house, you need to listen to what I say.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because, obviously, that hasn't been the culture. And it's hard because sometimes a mom will think, well, they're taller than I am.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And I'm saying, actually, you're the mother, and that carries with it a real amount of authority. It's hard, though, sometimes for some moms to really be strict because it does feel so uncaring. This mom can learn to say, no. There is no dinner in the house until your room is clean. No.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:You may not have the technology until your homework is done. You know? Because the mom is probably funding their cell phone. Right. You can teach them, actually, I will disconnect Wi Fi until you work with me on a plan.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Great. You see, there are these limits that she can learn to set. The challenge is if there's been a culture of not setting limits, there's a type of learning curve that needs to happen. So I can't imagine that hearing me say this, she'll be like, oh, I can do it. That is the path that I wanna encourage her to learn how to walk, that I wanna tell her you can learn to look up at your 16 year old in the eye and say, no.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Not in this house. That child will learn. It's there's gonna be a little struggle. They will learn to do something different. It's important to know that we can always reflect and change the way we're parenting.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:If we learn a new way, Michelle, we can say, you know what? I I have been too lenient. Or how about I've been giving my kids barking orders all the time. I wanna stop and listen to them. Well, we can do that.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Now our kids will notice a difference. They're like, woah. You didn't just scream. Or woah. These kids are like, you're being strict.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And the parent will say, yes. I am. And then they're not gonna believe it. They're like, what? My kids would say something like, you went to a parenting talk?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Oh. They will mock and dismiss.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And the answer we tell them is, yes. I did. I went to a parenting talk, and I learned I'm gonna do things a different way.
Michelle Moujaes:Because I love you, and, of course, correction is part of the process.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because I'm an adult, and adults are still learning.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So they might mock us for learning. We turn that on its head and say, oh, no. Learning is a mark of an adult. But they're not gonna believe you if you're serious. Michelle, those boys are not gonna they're not gonna they're gonna think we like the old mom better.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:This is this is just a fad. This is a phase. There's only one way for them to learn. Oh, no. I'm serious about this new way.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And it's by her learning that stick to it and go through the struggle. And with support Mhmm. You can course correct. And I have countless examples of parents who went to a talk or read the book and said, I'm doing everything backwards. I wanna correct.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And they do, and it's a process, and we have this discussion. Oh, no. It's good to change. My kids even challenge me. My youngest will say, you never did that with George, number five.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And I said, I know. I'm learning to do things differently.
Michelle Moujaes:There you go.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And he's like saying, well, that's not fair. I said, actually, no. That's normal. Yeah. I'm not gonna learn.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I'm gonna learn from my mistakes, and I will tell them
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I am learning from my mistakes. So then I get asked, is it ever too late to change?
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's another one.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Is it ever too late to change? And the answer is, it is never too late to teach your children that at any age in life, we can repent, we can learn that a new way, we can recognize we're going the wrong way even as a grandparent. Because oftentimes parents will tell me they watch their parents who are now grandparents interact with the children, the grandchildren in a different way than they did when they were parents. Mhmm. And I tell their grandparents, good job.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because now you get a second chance.
Michelle Moujaes:That's right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because think about what we model for our children. Being an adult is someone who's always learning. And there's only one way to teach that. They see us correcting. They see us do a course correction.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I suggest that's beautiful. And like you said, that's a gift you give to the kids. Mhmm. But expect pushback because that's the only way to teach them. Oh, no.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:This is the new way.
Michelle Moujaes:It's a new way.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Think she can do it.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. You can do it, mom. Alright. Let's go to the next question. I love this question.
Michelle Moujaes:What
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:do
Michelle Moujaes:you do if your young adult child is in a relationship with someone of another faith or who denounces religion altogether? That is a good question.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:It's a great question, because we live in a world where most people, you know, aren't gonna be Orthodox, aren't gonna be Christian. So we also live in a time where you cannot lock them up in a tower or something. We can't abduct our children. We can't force them in our home. Right?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We have to do something else. So I suggest the best thing for our children as young adults is, number one, for us to be growing in our faith, growing in patience, kindness, self control, growing in peace along the path that Christ lays out for us in the church, and then to be close to our children. Because we talked in previous episodes, it's not about telling them what to do, but it is about being in a relationship with them.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So the first step is we get our house in order, that we are praying for our child, right, that we are praying to God for our child, right, that we recognize that this is God's child as well. So we let go of trying to control, and we ask we give up control to God. Mhmm. Then with that spirit, we try and stay close. We try and spend time with them.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We invite them into our home. We stay in a relationship with our young adult peacefully, not telling them what we think all the time, but asking them what they're thinking. We learn how to be a parent to a young adult child, which is present and listening and curious. That is a powerful way to tell a child, I think you have good judgment, and I think you're capable of figuring this out, and I'm here to support that. And then the third thing we do, if we have an opportunity, we ask good questions.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Mhmm. I noticed that this person is x. This person seems to have a problem with alcohol, or this person doesn't seem to have any interest in the church. What's that? Have you guys talked about what a future would look like?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? Because oftentimes our young adult is also figuring out what role does faith play in my life? What role does the church play in my life? So we don't wanna come into that place aggressive with an agenda that I gotta get my kid to church. That that's not the love of God.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:That's not the sweet tasting tomato of love. Right? But if we stay close, stay in relationship, then we're able to ask our kids thinking questions.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Tell me what you're thinking. Because just like when they're in our home, we wanna ask them what they're thinking because that nurtures thinking and that communicates respect. So those are the three things I would do. Work on my own personal faith, pray, let go of control, try and spend as much time with my child and with her friend. Number three, ask good questions.
Michelle Moujaes:I know for myself as I have my children are kind of emerging into adulthood. I really want those big decisions, like who they might spend the rest of their life with to be right. And while I think you can do all the groundwork in the world, you really do have to turn them over to God and just pray and trust that he can make good from whatever choices.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And isn't that what we think? We'll do the all the groundwork, and then we'll turn them over to God. But like we talked about, it's actually reverse.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:First, we turn them all over to God. Fair. And when we're when they're young, we think about constantly turning them over to God, and then we do our own work within that. But, we're all the same way. Remember, we do what we can, and then we pray.
Michelle Moujaes:Yes.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:The other re the other thing that's really important that I wanna highlight is that's why we don't freak out when our kids misbehave when they're young. Because what we're really interested in is these big life decisions.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:You know, if my kid wears a coat outside or doesn't wear a coat, if they really pick up their toys or don't pick up their toys
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:If they learn to make their bed or
Michelle Moujaes:they
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:don't, how does that compare to choosing a life partner?
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? Struggling with mental illness.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Staying in relationships with God and others. Like, we wanna think long term because long term are these significant issues. So we teach them how to pick up the toys. We walk with them as we learn to clean the room. We give them a reminder about a jacket out the door, but in a way that's gonna build our relationship, communicate we respect their judgment, and stay close to them.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because what we're really thinking is when they go away, we want them to call us, we want them to be in our home, and we want them to have us in their home.
Michelle Moujaes:This is from Suzanne who is the mother of three middle schoolers. My children, she says, go to a public school, and that public school pushes views that do not necessarily align with our Christian values. How do we teach our children to be discerning and continue to stand up in their faith when the social pressures are so strong in the opposite direction?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Great question that many of us face. In fact, with recent things that are happening in The United States with such a strong, you know, push toward ideologies that really conflict with what we know and believe in the Orthodox Church, I've seen more parents at my parenting talks than ever before. Yeah. Parents are afraid. Sure.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because we know our children are vulnerable to start adopting some of these ideologies. These ideologies are waxed fruit. They are they they appear like a tomato, but they're not real tomato, and they don't taste like real tomato. We talked in one of our episodes about how we help our kids see and discern that this is not true by giving them the taste of what's real and true. So my daughter went away to undergraduate, and she called me, and she said, well, this one class, the teacher was asking about some ideology and was asking opening up the floor to the class about what students think.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And my daughter said, I could tell what she believed, and I could tell she wasn't really asking. So my daughter just said, there's no reason for me to say anything. And I thought, my daughter knows a real tomato Mhmm. And she could tell that's a bad tomato. I didn't need to tell her.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? So what we wanna do with middle school boys or middle school children, I don't wanna assume it's three boys, is are they being listened to in the home, or are you are we screaming at them and trying to control them? Are we giving them space to play and learn and grow? Are we trying to learn how to set limits without freaking out? Right?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Are we living our lives connected to the church? Are they seeing adults who are actually living the gospel in home? Are they seeing parents who are asking each other for forgiveness? Are they seeing mom try to listen to dad and try and say forgive me and talking respectfully? Are they seeing dad trying to listen to mom and trying to say forgive me when I make a mistake?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Are they seeing the gospel in action in the home, in repentance? And do they feel known, cared for? Do they have parents? They had a sense that my parents care about who I am. Right?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:That's what we do, and we connect that to the church. Are they in church frequently? And is the church in the home frequently as what guides our home? That is what we do. Because if we raise kids like that, they'll go to public school, and they'll hear something crazy.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And they'll come home, and they'll say, what is this? And then we teach them. Some people believe, and we list the distorted ideology. Some people believe that. That's not what God teaches, but not everyone knows what God teaches, and not everyone follows what God teaches.
Michelle Moujaes:Oh, okay. So what would you say to a parent who would rather opt out of being in you know, sending their kids seven or eight hours a day into the mix of very different ideologies? I'm we're here in Los Angeles, so you do see some really extreme things happening in school.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I I don't have opinion for each specific situation because I think that there's it makes a lot of sense to put our kids in environments that are more consistent with our tradition. So if you do have a school that is an alternative, that that's appropriate. That's not inappropriate. But I wanna raise kids who taste what's true and who go out into the world not with a fear of crazy ideology, but with a real sense that what's in me is stronger.
Michelle Moujaes:Is there an age where that becomes more possible?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I think it's I don't know if it's about an age as much as it is about a community. If my child's only friends are in these venues, alright. That's a problem.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. Sure.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:How about this? What if my child feels more comfortable and at ease with his friends in the public school than he does in my own home where he has parents that are constantly criticizing and commenting on him about how he behaves, how his room isn't clean, and get to church. Right? If you notice, the response is a home that's filled with the life of the church connected to the life of the church. When we do that, our kids are gonna wanna be there.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Mhmm. In fact, Michelle, they're gonna wanna bring their friends there. Mhmm. And then their friends who believe all sorts of stuff will just feel welcome. And the last thing I say is we should not criticize these other ideologies or people.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because if we hate on crazy people or people who have crazy ideologies, if we hate on them, we're teaching hate, and hate is not the light of the world. So what I teach my kids all the time is God revealed this to us about ourselves, about marriage, about gender, about sexuality, about life, about family, about church. Not everyone knows what God taught, and not everyone follows what God taught. Because that's a really understandable framework. I'm not condemning anyone.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I'm just saying this is who we are, and this is what how we live. And what that life is needs to taste sweet to our children.
Michelle Moujaes:Love it. Alright. Let's keep going. This one says, my child is strong willed and not always the well behaved perfect child. Sometimes another parent at church even disciplines my child.
Michelle Moujaes:How do I approach the parent about it when I know that they're right and they are correcting bad behavior?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I think that's a great question. Because number one, we have to be careful how we think about this child. We call a child strong willed. That's fine, but we gotta be careful because, first of all, where did that child get that strong will from? Probably the grandparents.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:These things skip generations. Right? Probably. Number two, we want our kids we don't wanna crush the will of a child. We want over time to direct that strong will toward righteousness, toward true and good.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? So, yeah, it's a little bit difficult. And as parents, we've been talking all about, oh, how do you respond? How do you set limit? And it's hard.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So now this is a situation where another parent has set a limit to our child. I suggest we get on the side of the other parent. So when our child comes and says, mister Mamalakis just told me to stop hitting and go to your mother, We say, sounds like mister Mamalakis is right. What happened? We teach our children.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:You gotta listen to those adults. Even if we're gonna parent differently, right, we gotta be careful because it's good for our kids to run into the limits of other adults. Not in in this question, there's a sense that it was good that the adult stepped in. But even if adults you know, some person in church might have an angry they might snap at our child and and say, don't take a third cookie. Right?
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We gotta be careful because we should say, oh, it's probably not a good idea to take a third cookie. I won't and I'm not gonna defend how they discipline my child, but I think it's good for my kid to say, you know, probably shouldn't take a third cookie. I think, why are you taking a third cookie?
Michelle Moujaes:And I'm accountable to the people around me in some way.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And all of us are parenting these children together. And we've lost a lot of that as a community. Yeah. So when it peeks his head out, I think it's not the worst thing.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. I agree with
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:that. You can help. I had a a situation where my daughters were playing piano, and I found the best piano teacher because I went to the recital, and her students won all the top awards. I said, I'm gonna send my daughters to this piano teacher. You know?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:She's the one who she's got the best Yeah. So we sent our three daughters to this piano teacher, and she would yell at them all the time. I'm like and so they all come to me and say, she yells at us when we make a mistake. And I said, well, what did I wanna do? I wanted to march right in and fight my kid's battle for
Michelle Moujaes:them.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:But I'm thinking long term to prepare my kids to stand up for themselves. So we all three, three girls and I, we said, well, what can we do? They're like, I don't know. I said, what if we say something? What if you speak up and say, you know what?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:They're like, what can we say? We could say, I I think I'll learn better if you don't yell at me. Or somehow or we said either that or I think if you just I'll hear you if you just direct me. I don't you don't need to yell. Right?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So my oldest was like, I'm not saying that. That's too scary. My second daughter said, I could say that.
Michelle Moujaes:I'm on it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:She says, I think I could do that. So they go to their piano lesson, and the teacher starts yelling at my daughter. And she stops, and she looks up and says, I don't I can hear you even if you don't yell at me. You don't need to yell at me. I think it was an Eastern European teacher, let's just say.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And she was taken aback because my daughter was also super tiny. And she said, oh, look at her speaking up for herself or something. And I thought, this is how we help our kids. We prepare them to speak up.
Michelle Moujaes:That's great.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We don't we want it's easy to fight their battles for them, but we wanna draw close and walk with them. Yeah. And this was so I didn't turn against the adult. I didn't say she shouldn't yell at you. I said, okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:God has put this in front of you. How are you gonna respond? Yeah. So rather than turning against the adult and she shouldn't do that, well, I don't wanna teach my kids to judge people's misbehavior. Wanna teach my kids to learn how to gently
Michelle Moujaes:speak to themselves.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right?
Michelle Moujaes:I was volunteering in one of our children's classroom once, and the teacher was an excellent teacher, but she was super scary. Like, even my husband was nervous. He said Right. I went in to, you know, help her prepare for whatever the thing was, and it was so scary. And so I'm in there cutting, like, little heart shaped things out during the lunch break, and a boy walked in, and you could tell he had been prepared by his parents.
Michelle Moujaes:He said, can I talk to you? And the teacher said, sure. What's going on, Tyler? And he said, felt like you were a little demeaning to me in class today. Like, you poked fun at me, and I just want you to know that I really found it disrespectful.
Michelle Moujaes:And she said, well, I'm really glad you told me, and I'm really sorry because that was not my intention. He said, okay. And he marched out, and I was like, that was so healthy. Like, way to go. It was like third grade.
Michelle Moujaes:He was young. But And
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:that's my daughter was probably third grade.
Michelle Moujaes:Yeah. That's amazing.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:See the parents are not fighting their battles. Yeah. They're not criticizing, and they're also not saying it's okay. Right. But they reckon I think we recognize that God's hand in in this.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And through adversity, we are here to prepare our kids for a future where we won't be with them
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:To equip them to say, I'm not okay with that.
Michelle Moujaes:Right. Let's keep going. We have just a few more. I have a child with special needs. How can I, as the parent, encourage independence while also making sure that my child has the help they need?
Michelle Moujaes:What do I do to help them build friendships without overstepping?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Great question. In some level, a special needs child is the same. If we think about what parenting is, it's the same no matter what kind of child we have because good parenting is responsive to my child's abilities and disabilities. Good parenting is responsive to the unique learning trajectory of my child. Some children will learn math quickly, others take a lot longer.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Good parenting is just responsive to that. As long as it takes to learn, I'm gonna walk with you. So special needs kids have a unique trajectory. Mhmm. So what helps is to talk to professionals so professionals who understand the particular needs of your child, the particular strengths, and the particular growth areas of your particular child can help you walk alongside them.
Michelle Moujaes:Mhmm.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:But what it takes is we have to respect the fact that our child will have a unique trajectory. It may not look typical. It may not look like our trajectory. Mhmm. Do they need a 100 friends?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:You know? It's like, what do they really need? And it's my belief that what every kid needs is a mom and a dad who are walking with them. Right? And then they're gonna grow, and they're gonna have their unique path.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So we need to let go of our expectations, let go of trying to form our kids, and learn from a professional who knows the type of child we have just to set up a framework to create an environment for which my child is gonna grow on his or her unique path.
Michelle Moujaes:Love that.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:It's really beautiful because love that. God gave us this child as a gift. And oftentimes, what we call not, you know, atypical or nonneurotypical, In the world, somehow there's a mark of success that atypical children will not reach. But in the church, there's a mark of success, which is learning, intimacy, God, that all of us are invited, and it's it's gonna look beautifully different. And and kids with special needs bring a certain gift into the world that frees us up from the crazy values of the world.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:It's an invitation to really focus on the only things that matter.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:And it's beautiful because then we are richer because of that, because we are forced to remind ourselves of the only things that matter. These eternal things, love, god, neighbor, person, this moment, and it's beautiful.
Michelle Moujaes:I love that. Alright. We have a big one and a little bit smaller one. What do you want first?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We'll take the big one.
Michelle Moujaes:Let's go. Alright. Our second to the last question. My child has told my husband and I that they are confused. They don't know if they like boys or girls, and they want to explore relationships with both.
Michelle Moujaes:We are really struggling with that.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:You know, the $60,000 question is how old is that child?
Michelle Moujaes:I don't know.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Okay. So my first answer is we say, I am so glad you're telling me.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Right? Because what this child is experiencing is these strange desires and attractions. And what we all need to do in our lives is we have to make sense of our desires and attractions. And if you go online and read stuff and talk to people outside, they'll tell you these this is what it means to have these desires and attractions. And most of that even statistically is not true.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Having all sorts of desires and attractions is kind of a normal part of growing up. Right? So that what we want to do is we wanna walk with this child and help this child understand a true way of understanding what desires and attractions they're experiencing. So you go talk to your priest, and your priest can refer you to someone who can help and walk with this child to say, you know, this is normal. This there's nothing wrong.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:This is not a category. I I had a girl in my office who was 15, and she just had no interest in the whole crush culture and boy culture, and she was kinda smart. And she wasn't on the spectrum. She she just was more interested in other things. And she says, I'm asexual.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I'm like, what? Where did you learn that? Right? That you she's online, and someone's gonna tell her, based on your characteristics, this is what you are. These are not categories of human person that we've inherited from the church and from the gospel.
Michelle Moujaes:Okay.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So what I told her is, someone put you in a box? Someone put you in a category. That's not respectful to a person. Right? What if you're a person with a name and you're growing and you're learning?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We gently talked about what it meant to be put in a category. Right? What was helpful about it? Because now I maybe I feel like I belong. Maybe I I have an identity.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:But how that identity may not really fit really well to who she was that might change over time. So we see these kinds of conversations about the normal process of figuring out what's true and real with or with my desires, with my attractions, with my longings, that's a normal thing to do during adolescence. Parenting is about creating a space where our child can sort through that within the life of the church. So in the home, they feel connected and respected. And at the church, they start understanding, oh, this is just desires and attractions.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Actually, it doesn't mean very much. Like, we we learn to have healthy relationships with human beings, not types of persons.
Michelle Moujaes:Right.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We're created for relationships with all sorts of persons. Like, that liturgy is like a an image of that. We don't stand by certain types of people. We are all persons in a network, in a communion of relationships in liturgy. So I was helping her reflect on that and say, oh, this is what it means.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:It means nothing. You're a person, and we're invited. So this is what I would suggest.
Michelle Moujaes:Love it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Say thank you. Say I'm glad you're sharing, and I think I can send you to someone who can actually help you understand this, a priest or an orthodox therapist.
Michelle Moujaes:Love it. Love it. Love it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Was that the short one or the hard one? That was just kidding me. That was
Michelle Moujaes:the hard one. Here is our last question, and I love this question because I think it's what we are all here in this space gathered to try and figure out. What is the best way to teach our children to be compassionate, prayerful people?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:What is the best way Yes. To teach our children to be compassionate, prayerful people? The single best way to teach our children to be compassionate, prayerful people is to be a compassionate, prayerful person in a relationship with that child. Because how much in our lives, Michelle, did we learn from just someone who stepped in, and we watched what they did and how they
Michelle Moujaes:did it. How they did it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Life is not learned in a book. Mm-mm. Life is learned in relationships with older people who are modeling the beautiful life that we hear about.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:So I was just listening to a podcast about people outside of our tradition really deconstructing their faith. Because it's a thing in our culture that kids are raised in a tradition, they're taught all these things are true. Once they go away, they realize, this doesn't really make sense. So this one person on the podcast was saying, I would even go to professors. And once I started to get to truly know them, I realized they don't even follow this.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:That, she said, was the final straw that the people that I thought were examples of this were not even examples, and she she kind of rejected the whole thing. And so for us as Orthodox, we recognize that is our primary tool. I almost think that is the only thing our kids need, is a mom and dad who are learning how to be compassionate and prayerful in relationship with the children as part of a community of people who are just learning to be compassionate and prayerful. When our kids grow up with that, not perfect parents, but repentant parents, they taste, oh, that's real. And then when they go out in the world and someone's trying to sell them something about, you should do this and you it'll feel wrong.
Michelle Moujaes:They'll know.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:Because then I never had an adult that was selling me something or that was doing this. That just it tastes bad. Yeah. I recognize it. That is our role as parents.
Michelle Moujaes:I love it. So it has been a joy to be with you in this season and really to lay out some of the foundations of Orthodox parenting. We're so grateful for you and for sharing your wisdom and your time with us. Any last words you wanna say to the audience?
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:I just wanna thank you because, you know, no one tells us, you know, how to do this. We it seems like we don't have time to learn. Right? We're thrown into parenting. So I really support anyone who's out there to say we are here to help you.
Michelle Moujaes:Let's do it.
Dr. Philip Mamalakis:We're not here to criticize you. We're not here to tell you how you should do a parenting. We're here to walk with you to ease your burden, to help you just gently see the path, and we'll support you to watch that. I'm excited to continue to work in that area and support anyone who's there in this community. Thank you so much.
Michelle Moujaes:Thank you, my friend. And thanks to you for joining us for this whole season of Orthodox Christian Parenting. We are here to help you raise children who know Christ and who love him and, God willing, who spend their lives trying to be like him. And, if this episode blessed you, would you consider doing us a favor and leaving a review or sharing it with a friend? And that'll help us get a stronger reach to more families just like yours who can learn from Philip and from the show.
Michelle Moujaes:And last thing, if you wanna go deeper, don't forget to check out and download this week's free discussion guide in the show notes, or you can find it on faithtree.org/parenting. It's a free gift for you and a great opportunity for you to really think more deeply about what we've talked about today with your spouse, your friends, or your community at church. So check it out, and God willing, we will see you very soon.