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At My Altar with Dr. Trenda Lee is a podcast that explores the ways everyday people practice their spirituality. Join Trenda and her guests for honest conversations about their pathways to the divine and discover what that might look like for you. Someone else’s story might be your next spiritual practice.
Do you want to feel more connected to the divine, however you define that? Maybe your old practices don't fit anymore, or maybe you've always felt spiritual but never built a practice around it. I'm Trenda Lee, and I'm talking with everyday people about their spiritual practices. I invite you to join me as we explore pathways to the divine at my altar
Welcome back to At My Altar. I'm here, Savana's here, you're here, and my very special guest is here, Julia Mitchell. I feel so grateful. Julia is a vivacious 70-year-old who calls herself a seeker, and a seeker she is. She has several meaningful spiritual practices to share with us and a wonderful book recommendation.
I can't wait for you to meet her. In many ways, my path looks so similar to hers. She has been seeking to deepen her spiritual connection to the divine all her life. She's divorced and reckoning with her relationships to addicts. She's the mother of two adult children. She loves being active and has an unquenchable thirst for learning.
And interestingly, both of our mothers are still living. My mom, Linda, only lives 10 miles from me. She and my dad, Warner, have been married for 62 years and live independently, but in an assisted living/memory care apartment complex. I've lived near my parents for almost 30 years. My mom has been my date for hundreds of movies over the years.
She has been my diehard shopping partner, the one whose hands I watched baking as a little kid, handing down to me the tricks of the trade. She's an amazing grandma to my daughters, and honestly, my trusted confidant at the times I've needed her most. My mom is now 81 years old, and she's had dementia for 11 years, and her memory has waned.
Right now, she's turned quite delightfully childlike. While my confidant is gone, she still lights up when she sees me and showers me with so much love and calls me her beautiful friend. And recently, she gave me perhaps the best gift she's ever given me The other day, I took her to a doctor's appointment.
It had been on my calendar for months, and I couldn't remember what it was for, and it was at a location I hadn't been before. I had simply labeled it OT on my calendar. And when we checked in, I found out it was for a memory exam, the one in which she has to do a lot of daily practical tasks to measure how much support she needs and whether or not she can continue to live on her own, or at least with my father.
When she realized the nature of the appointment, she was not happy. She knew she was going to fail miserably, so she could not see the point other than sheer humiliation. The doctor happened to be running late, so we sat down in the waiting room and started to talk. She was agitated and just wanted to leave, but I knew I needed to keep her there so we could understand how far gone her memory actually was.
So I shared with her that I would really appreciate it if she could do this testing for me, that I'm scared, and I want to make sure she and my dad are safe. We don't usually acknowledge my mom's limitations, but I got vulnerable with her and very honest and said, "If Dad should fall down, I'm not sure you would know how to pick up the phone and call me," that I really don't know the depths of her memory challenges.
And the goal that day was to understand the areas she may need support, not to take things away from her, but to allow her to safely have as much independence as possible. She was still a tad defensive and not wanting to do these memory tests. But my mom said to me, "Your dad and I talk all the time, and we know what we're doing.
We know our limitations. We've been talking together for years." I couldn't argue that. It's true. My parents didn't really go out on dates, but multiple times a week, they would drive into town and have coffee at a local cafe and talk for hours. In fact, now that I think of it, they still do that every morning.
And I mean every morning, my parents go to McDonald's for breakfast burritos and coffee and talk. So I softened, realizing even with her limitations, my parents have a relationship that is still growing and adapting. They are still on their journey together as a couple, and that's beautiful. And then came the gift.
My mom literally turned herself toward me Her eyes got so kind. The mom I've always known came back. She said to me in a very loving, parental way, "You're a beautiful daughter, and you have a fun and amazing life. Just keep living it and be happy. Don't worry about us. Don't worry about me. If your dad falls, I'll run out into the hallway and shout for help.
Our place is full of nurses and old people roaming the halls. Someone will help me. I am going to die, and it'll be just fine. I'll be fine. You just be happy." Of course, by this time we were both crying in the waiting room, and I told her what a gift her words were, that now I understood why we were at this appointment, because I needed to hear those words.
Once again, my confidant was there when I needed her most. We got called back, regained our composure, and throughout the testing, my mom took it all in stride. She laughed her way through every test, sending me and the doctor laughing right alongside with her. The only test she passed with flying colors was making a piece of toast.
Every other one, she gave it her all, but ultimately couldn't do the task and would simply push the testing items back toward the doctor and proclaim, "Eh, just call Warner. He'll know how to do it." When I brought her home, I told my dad about our conversation and the results of the appointment, and that indeed she's at a point in her life that she cannot live alone, but she's doing okay, and she laughed as she kept failing one test after another.
My dad told me it's true. They do talk a lot. They are on the same page. My dad happens to have COPD, and he said to me he and my mom are growing old. He has bad lungs, and she has a bad brain. So they're both leaving this world with some ailment, but they've got each other for now, and it's okay. My guest today talks about her legacy, namely giving her children and grandchildren and the people around her an experience or a conversation to hold onto.
That sure was the gift and legacy my parents gave me that day, and now I get to share that gift and the wisdom of my guest with you. Here is my interview with Julia Mitchell
I am so excited to have with me today Julia Mitchell. She is a spiritual seeker that has already taught me a lot in the few short times we have met each other. I'm so glad you're on the show. Welcome to my altar.
Thank you.
Thank you. So tell me a little bit about your spiritual journey. Was spirituality a big part of your upbringing?
How did you get to where you are today in your spiritual practice?
Basically, I had very little up- in my upbringing. I was always the one looking through the stained glass window from the outside in, thinking that I just wasn't being accepted. My parents got divorced, and so we left the Presbyterian church.
I had been baptized there and confirmed there, and I ended up at a Catholic high school, not being Catholic, in a divorced family, and I was told all the time I was from a broken family. So to me, that wasn't, not spiritual or spiritual. I just didn't get that background. And so it wasn't until I married somebody that started to consume quite a bit of alcohol, and that led me to Al-Anon, and Al-Anon gave me the tools to find my own spirituality and start listening to me, because I was listening to all the outsiders.
So it really went from zero to finally understanding that my spirit was from within, though I'm starting to think about that a little bit more. Is it really within, or is spirituality outside of me with a light shining, saying, "Come this way. Come this way. Come this way"? When I do swim or I run, I get these little messages once in a while.
They'll just say, "Try this," or, "Do that." In January, I tried a Watsu massage, and I don't know if you know what that is, but it's a big pool of very warm water. It's the size more of a spa, not a pool size, and you're listening to your breathing 'cause you can hear it in the water, and you're floating, and they put floaties on you, and this woman moved me.
All she really did was stretch me, and she said, "Pretend you're seaweed." So I pretended I was seaweed, and then all of a sudden, it hit me. This is what it feels like to have my spirit move me. It's not gonna pull me or push me or drown me. C- Come this way. Let's go this way. Come on. You can do it. You're safe with me.
It's the most spiritual thing I've ever done.
What a beautiful metaphor. Seriously.
Oh, you can feel it, 'cause you can hear yourself breathing, and this is exactly what it feels like when spirit's trying to move you.
I love that so much. So
much. Yeah. I am a seeker, but I love the quote, "Follow the seekers and the doubters, 'cause that's how you'll formulate what works for you, not what works for them."
And I've been in Al-Anon for 28 years, and I'm very, very proud of it. I am recovering.
Yes. 28 years. Yeah. Wow. So it sounds like you are working through a spiritual transition right now as well, this idea about Is spirit within? Is my divinity within? Is my divinity outside coming in? What a powerful place to be.
And there's no right answer. Both for breakfast and for dinner, I light a candle every single night unless I'm out. And I do say a little prayer every morning. It used to be Serenity Prayer, but now I don't remember who wrote it, but I say, "Thank you for the invitation to be with you for another day. I'll do the best I can to follow you.
Walk in front of me to show me the way, alongside of me to encourage me, behind me to support me, above me to watch over me, and best of all, from within." And that's my morning prayer.
I have goosebumps everywhere. That is resonating with me. That is beautiful. Night is a little different. That's a practice you do every day.
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Okay, tell me more about night. What do you do at night?
Nights are a little different. I learned this when I was a little girl. I had to live with my grandma for a while, and she taught us to get down on the side of the bed and pray, you know, God bless. I d- I don't get down on the floor anymore, but every night I do say, "God bless," and I go through my whole family.
God bless those who I've considered family at one time or another, and those people that really have made an impact in my life, and all my relatives by last names. And then I do say, "I did the best I could following you. Grant me grace. Grant me patience. If I don't do it right, I'm doing the best I can.
I'm listening for your words for me. Watch over me this evening." That's the gist of it.
So you start your day in prayer, you end your day in prayer, and then when you eat breakfast and when you eat dinner, you light a candle. Can you share a little more about that practice?
I started that practice when I was finally separated from my husband, and I was hoping he'd come back.
You know, maybe if you light a candle, it'll symbolize where the light is, so he would come back. He did not come back, but it was like that typical I did it for the wrong reason that turned out to be the blessing. Yeah. And now I've kept it up every night, and the candle represented really more of home.
This is where home is, and it didn't work the way I had thought it would. It worked actually for the best, so
So yes, I do light the candle, and I have one now, and then I'll, I'll, you know, blow it out before I leave, and then when I get back to make dinner, I relight it. So.
Wow.
I, I go through a lot of candles.
Clearly. I love it. So we are approaching the spring season. Is there something that you are wanting to let go in this season?
I'm letting go of stuff that I'm gonna say no longer works or maybe never did work. I'm really working at where am I at a deficit? I mean, I'll get the gold medal in activity. I can be active. I ski, I skate, I hike, I swim, I run. I got the gold medal there. My watch always says every night, "Congratulations!"
But there's no metrics for, do you have a best friend? What'd you do with people today? Did you have a good conversation? Did you meet somebody that's totally, you know, doesn't believe in you, whatever, that you think should be right? Do you talk them into it, or do you just listen? So this spring of this year, I'm really working at my deficit.
I have a- another question for you that maybe goes in a little bit different direction, but how much of your spiritual wellbeing, your spiritual practice, is motivated- Oh ... or influenced by the afterlife?
What's influencing the most now is really what kind of legacy do I wanna leave for those who will outlive me, in a sense, in terms of our timeline?
Like my granddaughters, what legacy do I wanna leave? That's really is getting to be more important. That's why when my oldest granddaughter said, "Come skate with us," and I tried to tell her, "I don't have skates. I don't know how to skate," she said, "Well, we'll go buy skates, and then you take a lesson." I did that for her because I knew that gave her...
I want her to say, "You know, you can't believe what Mimi did. At 70 years old, she started skating." That means far more to me than what at the, in an afterlife. So I'm working on role modeling and the legacy. I'm not gonna sit there and lecture to them at all. That's not what my job is. And I will call her, and I'll say, "I am struggling with crossovers."
"Well, Mimi, this is what you do. When you're at Target and pushing the cart, just keep moving your feet over each other. You'll get to where you have to go, and then your body will get used to it." "That's a good idea. Thank you." See, I want them to say, "This is what we did, what she did. She's our role model." I would rather be a role model for the next generation than worry about the afterlife.
I don't know what's going on there anyway. Does that make sense? Fair
enough. Absolutely. Absolutely. So in closing, is there any other spiritual practice that you do that we haven't touched on?
I really am exploring this whole spiritual thing. I would have to say trust is about the best spiritual practice I'm doing right now, just trusting, and it's hard.
I've mentioned the book Spirit Wheel. Love it, love it, love it, by Stephen Charleston. It's a book that I think is speaking to a lot of people, 'cause it's not a religion. It's more based on nature.
I don't know much about this book. So is it, like, daily devotionals?
It's not quite daily. It's called Spirit Wheel: Meditations from an Indigenous Elder.
He says that the ancestors are whispering all the time in the wind. Can you hear it? Can you hear it? To me, that's really powerful. It's like the words of wisdom are out there. Be at peace.
Beautiful.
So, yeah. Isn't that really- Thank you ... that's
really nice. Yeah. Thank you for sharing about that. I hadn't heard of it, and it sounds amazing, and it's something that- So-
really resonates with me.
Every morning I'll read one page, and they're very short, but he does say in there, "I've studied so many spiritual leaders. I've read so many books on spirituality. Nothing brings me closer to my spirit than the great outdoors."
Ah, such words of wisdom. Thank you, Julia. Wow. You have really taught me some things that I am going to take into my own practice, and I'm gonna go buy this book.
I love it. I really do. I love it. I wish he would do another one like it. I'm hoping he will. He said, "We're all spiritual medics. How can we help each other in this very difficult time? How can we help each other?" So that's what I'm working on. But like I said, six months, it'll be interesting to see what I've learned.
I'd like to hear what you have, too. What have you picked up in all of your interviews that resonate?
Ah, thank you so much. It's been
amazing. Well, I hope that this works out, and I hope complete success for you. Thank you so much. Thanks. All my blessings to you. Thanks so
much.
Same to you, Trenda.
Bye.
Bye-bye
Isn't she just a firecracker? A woman who has owned her life experiences and just keeps creating more, all within the context of practicing her spirituality and pathway to the divine. I learned so much from her, and now I can't wait to hear what Savana is thinking. Let's give her a call Well, hello, Savana.
Hello.
It's so good to
see you. How are you? It's good to see you.
You've got some glasses on. So cute.
I know. I've got glasses. I got bangs. Some people asked me if I am okay. The answer is yes. I am fine. I just needed a new look. I- But I appreciate your concerns.
Adorable. You look adorable. Oh my gosh. Julia, is she not just the best?
She is great. She is- She is great. Her energy's fabulous.
Her energy is incredible. And for someone like you who works with older women and older people, isn't she just vivacious and so full of wisdom? It was fun to get to meet her and know her.
Yeah, for sure. I think her whole concept of being the best role model she can be, and learn and try new things at 70 is just amazing, and I hope to be like that when I'm older.
It actually reminds me of your story you told in an earlier episode about the two grandmas in your life, and how much they had an influence on you.
Yeah, for sure. Whenever I get the chance to work with anybody in older adulthood, I learn something every day, and I love that you've had guests of all ages, but especially some of your older adult guests, have been just a joy to listen to.
Mm.
I loved Julia's prayer. You had said that it gave you goosebumps, and before you said that, I noticed I had goosebumps, and then you said that out loud, and I was like, "Oh my gosh, me too." And she just recited it. Like, I was like, "Oh my God, that's such... I don't know anything by memory."
100%.
She was so fabulous.
I can't describe her in any other way. I think I've shared in previous episodes of my- Fear of death and dying, even though I work with people with terminal illness. I would hope to someday have faith or belief in an afterlife so that I can just feel more comfortable in that transition. And then in listening to Julia talk about how she's like, "I don't know what's gonna happen, so might as well make the most out of life while I'm here," and I found that so refreshing given my thoughts on the afterlife.
Mm-hmm. I can so relate to that, too. She has this juxtaposition of being a seeker of her spirituality her whole life-
Mm-hmm.
And- Mm-hmm ... the c'est la vie of, this is what it is right now, make the most of it. So when I asked her that question about the afterlife, and she was pretty much like, "I don't know. So I'm going to- Mm-hmm
leave my legacy in the actions and wisdom I leave here on Earth." Oh.
Yeah. Heck
yeah. I learned so much from her.
Mm-hmm. Very much so. Yeah. You wanna know something interesting?
Well, yes, I do.
Okay, I'm gonna make this about me for a few moments, but I promise it's related to this. In listening to everybody's practices, I'm like, "What is my practice?
I don't know." My hope is that my experience of becoming more self-reflective is kinda the goal of the podcast, right, and to get ideas on different practices. But I realized my practice is doing my skincare and my makeup every morning. Mm.
Rain or shine, whether I'm leaving the house or not, I
love a good look at myself in the mirror and make myself feel and look beautiful, you know?
I love to give myself a little pep talk, and a little blush- I love it ... and maybe a little bit of mascara. It's true. Okay, so here's what's interesting. Okay. I thought to myself, I s- I promise Julia we're coming back to you, you fabulous lady. But I, I thought to myself just randomly the other day, before I had listened to this interview, I was like, "Uh, you know, I think it would be so wonderful if I lit a candle and then got ready."
Like, maybe I could elevate this tradition that I've had for 30 years and add a little bit of, like, witchiness to it. I don't know. Like, light a candle. That just seems really lovely and elevated, both for aesthetic purposes and spiritual purposes
obviously. Of course.
Obviously. But maybe it'll make my skin glow in the candlelight.
So I was at the grocery store yesterday, and I found a super cute candle that was on sale, and I was like, "Oh, this is perfect. It's, like, teeny-tiny. I'm gonna buy it and start using it every morning when I get ready." And then this morning, I was getting ready, and I lit my candle, and I was listening to the episode in preparation for our talk.
And I was like, "Holy cannoli, is this serendipitous or what?" You know?
Savvy.
And thanks, Julia, for sending your good vibes and your candlelight wisdom because now I have a new spiritual practice, and I can look gorgeous while doing it.
Savvy. I love this so much. Isn't that
great?
I love this so much.
I am not kidding when I say I had not listened to any of this.
You didn't tell me anything about Julia. I literally had this thought 24 hours before I listened to it, found a candle on a whim, and lit it, and listened to it while I got ready.
Well, this makes me so happy. I don't even know why.
Isn't that so cool?
It's so cool.
She's like, "I don't even know why I love this."
I do. Hello
I love it so much because there's this full circle moment of you being... listening to all of these episodes, and talking about them, and then also relating it back to yourself, and having it move you so much that you're doing something. And obviously, that's the point of my podca- Mm-hmm Like, I want everyone to find a practice that they can take time in their day to sit in a space that raises their resonance and love- Mm-hmm
and that brings us all in a higher resonance and love. That's the point.
Well, bingo, Yahtzee.
Hello.
Goal achieved.
We're done. We're done.
I don't know if you need a season two. I'm just saying. I think, you know.
You know, Sevie's lighting a candle, people. The deed is done.
But it's just so natural. Do you know? Yeah. Just it was something that just came to you so naturally, and is deepening a time when you are already so connected to yourself. And for me, the divinity lives within. We are divine, is that connection to the divine. So thank you for sharing that. That's amazing.
I'm like, I have a candle, and I do my makeup every day. As vain as she is, she's also divine.
Hear, hear. I love it. Oh my God. And I love you. I
love you too.
Thank you so much, mama. This is so great. Yeah. I love it-
I know ...
beyond measure. I'm gonna send you some of my matches that have at my altar on it, and then you can use-
Oh my gosh
you can use my matches to light your candle.
I love it. Yes, please do.
Okay. I love you, muumuu.
Love you so much. Thank you for having me again.
Okay.
And thank you, Julia, for sharing your wisdom. Thank you. I'm gonna light a candle for you tomorrow when I get up.
I love it. Okay.
Talk
to you later.
Okay, I'll talk to you later.
Sounds good, mama. All right, bye.
Ah, Savana, lighting a candle while putting on her makeup. Hell to the yes. Let's find our spiritual practices in the everyday. I love it so much. I wanna give a special shout-out to one of my producers, Charlie Mitchell. The first time I ever talked to Charlie about the idea of this podcast, he told me, "You have to interview my mom."
Well, Julia Mitchell is Charlie's mom, and now we all know why. Thanks, Charlie. Thank you so much for joining me At My Altar. You can also go to my website, atmyaltar.love to find all of my episodes and download a free spiritual practice guide. At My Altar is hosted by me, Trenda Lee, with producers Cecilia Stanton Adams, Charlie Mitchell, and me, Trenda Lee.
Original music by Charlie Mitchell, and original website photos and logo design by Irena TePante at TePante Studios. A special thanks to my beautiful daughter, Savana.
If you've always felt spiritual and want to find more pathways to the divine, join me for another episode of At My Altar
with Trenda Lee.
Until then, I'll see you on the love grid