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The Navvai Shift – AI & Business Insights
Welcome to The Navvai Shift, the podcast where business leaders in finance share their journeys, challenges, and unfiltered thoughts on artificial intelligence. We dive deep into how AI is shaping industries, uncovering real-world insights from those driving innovation.
Subscribe for expert conversations on AI, automation, and the future of business.
Hello everyone. Welcome to another
episode of the Nova Shift. Today we have
David Whitney on. David, welcome. It's
pleasure to have you on the podcast.
>> Well, thank you very much for inviting
me. It's an absolute pleasure to be
here. Really looking forward to our
conversation. This is a whole area that
I'm very very interested in and u yeah I
hope to share that with your um your
viewers, listeners, etc. So that's
great.
>> Perfect. That's amazing. has enable
strong reputation in the market for your
work with independent broker solutions.
A lawyers broker also takes a fresh and
highly service-driven approach in work
with intermediaries. So for our viewers
listening to give a bit more insight
into what independent broker solutions
do and type of client you work with.
>> That's absolutely great. So we are a
Lloyd's broker. We're an intermediary
that's authorized by the FCA in the UK
and we act as an umbrella organization
for appointed representatives to enter
the market. So this means that we take
responsibility for them for their
compliance for their oversight and we
really act as that gateway to
organizations who want to join the
London insurance market and the global
market. Let's not be ashamed of saying
that because we operate across the
European Union um and across the world
as part of this and we we
help them to get into the market. There
are people who are coming in who are
just starting out who are perhaps
breaking away from another broker or
maybe they are an organization that's
operating globally and they want to be
able to access the Lloyd's market, the
London market but without having a
wholesale broker in between and we
facilitate that for them. So they come,
they join us, we support them, we
support them in their journey, we
provide what they need, and hopefully at
the end we can wave goodbye to them as
they go off on their journey as a
self-regulated entity. The way I
describe it is I'd quite happily be on
the pier watching them sail off into the
distance with a tear in my eye and
dabbing my cheek, very proud of them
going on their journey.
>> No, that's amazing, David. So it's like
quite an end to end process. But we've
done some research prior to the podcast
and we've seen that your uh firm
supports both authorized and
non-authorized entities. So I wanted to
ask how do you think this shapes the
kind of work you do like day-to-day for
us you have authorized entities in who
are looking after themselves. They take
responsibility for themselves from a
regulatory perspective and that's an
important thing. So in that situation
what we're doing is we're providing an
outsourced service to them. Now, usually
they are the appointed representatives
who have moved on on their journey. But
what they need is that continuing
ongoing support. Support that they trust
and that they understand because they've
been working with us before to allow
them to continue developing their
business but in a controlled manner with
understood costs with those strong
relationships, the support that's
necessary. When they're unregulated,
unregulated is perhaps I would say is a
word I would not use. they are regulated
because we are taking responsibility for
their regulation and that's quite an
important part for us. So for us as an
organization if we are dealing with
these entities put it bluntly if there
if they screw up we're the ones who get
into trouble. So I don't want them to
screw up. None of us want that to
happen. What we want is that very clear
two-way relationship between the
organizations that allows them to
deliver what they want to to their
customers to their investors. and what
we need to do to be able to supply that
service and to make sure that we follow
the correct regulatory line.
>> I agree. Kind of wanted to get bit more
insight and get a bit more
understanding. What kind of changes you
think are having the biggest impact on
your clients right now?
>> Me, it's the technology side of things
is what it comes down to. We are in the
London insurance market which is I would
say the oldest insurance market in the
world with Lloyds of London at its core.
It's got a huge amount of history behind
it. It's got a huge amount of tradition
behind it which is absolutely fantastic
because it's created a stable market.
There's nothing like it elsewhere in the
world and I will always fly the flag for
it. I love it. I think it's absolutely
brilliant. But there is always a butt
that's associated with this. It's making
sure that that technology that is
driving forward elsewhere globally not
only in the financial services industry
and the global insurance industry but
elsewhere is brought into the market.
And that is something that can sometimes
be delayed I think is the polite way of
putting it. There is a drive forwards.
Lloyds of London is operating what's
known as blueprint 2 which is a full
digitization of the Lloyd's market which
is horrendously complex and probably
requires a podcast on its own to try and
explain how the thing actually works.
But you've got so many different
participants in the market from the
providers, underwriters, capital
providers to the brokers, cover holders,
and everyone who sits alongside it. And
making sure that they are all in line on
that digitization journey is vitally
important. But also what we're seeing is
a disruption potentially coming in from
elsewhere that is driven by that
technology. We're seeing new market
entrance. Fintech companies coming in
with some very good ideas in terms of
how insurance should be sold, how
customers should be serviced as part of
this. Um, and we need to make sure that
we keep up to date with them. Well, no,
more than keep up to date that we engage
with this and we go on that journey
ourselves. But that can sometimes be a
little bit tough when you have some very
large organizations that don't have that
agility that comes with a startup.
um we need to take account of that. It's
always that classic thing, isn't it? To
everyone's looking out of view, but do
we want to be viewed as part of this?
No. But there's also some very high
barriers to get in particularly from
capital and the regulatory side. But
this is where I'll flag the flag for us
as an organization. We can actually
assist with that and that's quite an
important thing for us. Then coming on
to the next bit, it's the rise of AI and
what the hell that means for us.
Everyone's there looking at it thinking
may I and we've all been playing around
on chat GPT. My daughters managed to get
a particularly good picture of me as a
muppet which I thought was very I
actually quite liked it. It was quite a
good one. I muppets are cool when it
comes down to it. So I've got no
argument on that one. No, it's taking
>> that after David.
>> I I'll send it on to you.
It's a very good one. I quite like it
myself. So I'm not ashamed of it in the
slightest. But what does it mean for us
as an industry? What is it we're wanting
to try and do? We are a service
industry. We sell a promise to our
customers in insurance that if something
goes wrong, we'll help them out. And
it's on a piece of paper and that's all
it is. And it can be flipping expensive
for some people as well. So, okay then,
how do we make sure we maintain that
trust of our customers? come through on
that really powerful promise that we've
made to them to help them out in a
situation where things potentially gone
wrong
and give them the support that they
need. How do you use that AI technology
to enable your business, your people to
give a better service? And this is my
point is and that's what something I
always say. I don't want it to be a
replacement. I want it to be an
enhancement of what we do. To slightly
coin a phrase from Isaac Newton, he's
talked about standing on the shoulders
of giants. Well, we should be standing
on the shoulders of AI in terms of
pushing ourselves to those new heights
that we can potentially achieve from it.
And I think that's absolutely fantastic.
>> I definitely agree with you, David. And
just carrying on the subject of AI, what
do you think will be the biggest impact
in terms of AI in the insurance
industry? Well, this is now where you're
going to get me starting to rant on one
of my pet subjects at the moment. So,
and I quite honestly
>> I'm I'm all ears. I'm all ears.
>> Yeah. And I And quite honestly, I'm of
an age now where I can rant on these
sort of things and be quite happy about
these things. So, that's not a problem.
To me, it's how the underwriting
procedure could potentially change.
Previously, underwriting has always been
done on the basis of historical data.
You've got records within your business.
You got actuarial tables and
methodologies. You've got benchmarking
and standard approaches that have
allowed the insurance underwriting
process to develop with the ability of
AI in its broadest sense to take vast
quantities of data to them through
wrangle them. You're then creating a
very much more detailed approach to
underwriting. It's really it's looking
at that real time behavioral data which
is at initial glance you think hey
that's a really good idea because you're
personalizing your insurance to your
customer but then it potentially fatally
undermines the whole concept of
insurance which is pooling that
everybody gets together contributes
their premiums to a pool. Some people in
it are inherently more risky, some are
not, but it kind of balances out in the
end. And it means that everybody,
although everybody, but a lot of people
will get coverage on this basis and
they'll get it on fairly reasonable
terms. They're not being hugely
massively penalized because of their own
inherent situation. Where if you go down
that personalization, let's look at it
that way, you remove that pooling
activity that that ability to deliver.
So you end up potentially with people
who cannot be insured or people who can
only be insured at prohibitive costs
which means they end up being uninsured
anyway. And it's this whole point of
what's known as inclusive underwriting
in the market. How do you make sure you
bring along as many people as possible
and find a way to ensure them so that
you're not in the insurance market in 10
years time saying, "Well, we've managed
to retain three insured people and
they're each paying us £50,000. everyone
else who cares but we've got three
people because we can't ensure anyone
else sustainable will not work. So how
do we do it? And this is again looking
at the data that is coming through and
now you can use that to
include those people who may struggle.
Oh very good example would be something
like medical insurance where you have
people with chronic conditions. How do
you find a way to look up to include
them as part of this? How do you look at
people who, I don't know, someone like
me whose BMI maybe is not where it
should be, but that could impact on
medical insurance? Well, there are ways
and means that you can encourage people
to do the right thing as part of this.
And that's the whole point of it. If you
are going down that effectively that
personalization route, how can you then
find a way to include people? I'm not
saying I've got the answer on this in
the slightest. Well, I've got a few
ideas, but that's potentially for
another time. But that is the big issue
and it's everyone charging off on their
down this road that we think is
absolutely great to say let's use this
data. Let's get that behavioral data
into this. Let's personalize it. We
could find ourselves in a very tricky
situation where we have a lot of people
who are excluded from the market which
is no good for anybody.
>> And David I was going to ask I know you
you briefly touched upon it. I know you
said like a lot of startups definitely
needed a move need movement need in the
right direction in the AI space. Do you
believe bigger firms are misunderstood?
>> No, I think they're scared of it is the
honest answer. And I've I've come across
this anecdotally in terms of
conversations with other people in the
industry. There is a reluctance to
launch in to AI. It's very much on the
side of the swimming pool dipping the
big toe in wondering whether you should
go any further on that point because
maybe it could be a bit chilly, maybe it
won't be. And that is a very important
thing because people are doing things in
the larger organizations but they're
doing it at a very low level. They're
doing simple AI. They're looking at
document management systems. They're
looking at trying to draw data together
into one particular place. It's they
don't want to go further. Now part of
this I think is a regulatory concern.
The UK FSA, FCA, sorry, is an
interesting regulator when it comes down
to it. And everybody is always very wary
of upsetting them. So in this situation,
well, do you want to do something that
might cause a trouble with the
regulator? Nah, I don't think I want to
do that. Let's do something a bit
simpler. I think it's a lack of
understanding about this as well about
what it can potentially achieve for
organizations and the service that
you're actually giving to your customers
but it's just potentially also a lack of
understanding and yeah it's definitely
out there but I think also sitting
within it you've then got the old oil
tanker analogy some of these
organizations so large that actually
what you're talking about here is sort
of a paradigm shift coming in within the
organizations it's going to take a long
time to steer it round in a way that
actually works for everybody and you
just don't have the agility that you
would have in that startup situation.
>> Sorry, that's just giving me a lot to
think about, David.
>> That's I told you I have a lot to say on
these things. Um, yes,
>> I guess obviously you've been talking
about like the technological divide. I
think you can all say that with all
these massive companies that have like a
lot of like legacy rigid system.
Bringing the conversation away from AI
more to automation. There's a lot of
risk associated with automations for
example. So what do you reckon the
associated risks are versus automating
and not automating?
>> You have to automate. You must automate.
But so many firms, companies,
organizations in the market will
struggle to do this because they have so
many legacy systems that are littering
their own organization and the
organizations that they've hoovered up
as time has gone by. So we have some
very very active um particular on the
broking side groups who are buying more
and more other brokers in the UK and
around the world and they're buying and
buying and buying and it's in quite
quick succession and I sit back and I
think how the hell are you actually
going to integrate all of your IT
systems and all of your management
systems and approaches to actually allow
you to get some of those joined up
benefits as part of this? Because the
sexy attractive thing is to do the next
step. Not to sit down and spend probably
a lot of money, a lot of time and a lot
of stress in getting that integration
coming through. You you just have to do
it. You have to be able to join up your
systems and your data to be able to
achieve what you need to achieve now.
And again, it's going back to what we
were talking about before is the
agility. You've got these behemoths of
organizations that have got multiple
heads all over the place. Yeah, you
you've kind of backed yourself into a
corner if you've not if you're not
careful on something like this. So, it
has to be done. But it's having the
appetite to do the dirty work that is
necessary to actually be able to deliver
what you need. It's not what you want,
it's what you need to be able to thrive.
>> No, 100%. I definitely agree with you,
David. And I also feel that businesses
kind of have to make sure they're in a
position to ensure they actually are
ready to actually implement new
technology without losing the work
that's already done as well. At the same
time,
>> it is but it's it's moving on from I
have all sorts of ways of describing
things. One of them is it's it's sorry I
get carried I get carried away in these
sort of situations and I talk too much
but that's just the nature of it. People
get attracted by the shiny thing.
there's a shiny thing that's coming
through and at the moment particularly
on the digitization on the technology on
the AI it's a shiny thing this is
something that we should be doing and
some people are approaching it with a
tech first mindset of hey yeah we should
be doing something like this why should
we be doing something like this well
because it's the new sexy thing and
everyone's talking about it we want to
be able to talk about it at the next
shareholders meeting and our
shareholders will be impressed with this
we want to talk about it at the board
and the board will go oh we're doing
that now are Well, well, that sounds
very good, doesn't it? Rather than
something that is actually required by
the business that people are crying out
for. And that's what I want us to be
able to see within the industry. It's
not just, well, we've done this thing
and we've done a huge great press
release on it. Yeah. Well, okay,
whatever. Let's do something that
actually works within an organization
that can be iterative and that can
evolve and go forwards. So, we're not
going to try and do some sort of
moonshot thing of I don't know, I've
seen so many of these things fail in
their time when everyone said, "Right,
let's do this enormous great big bang
approach to what we're trying to achieve
here and it'll achieve everything we
need and everything will be perfect and
the sky will be blue for the rest of the
year. Brilliant. Whatever." Or probably
for a lot less money
>> and a lot less stress. But you've not
really got the shiny thing that you can
show off to everybody.
>> I guess it's always about balance like
you have to maintain. You can't you
can't if you can't really sprint a
marathon, you know, you have to take
your time, go at a nice pace, and
eventually you'll get to the end.
>> It is. There it is. It is. Absolutely.
>> I was going to ask, David, so I know you
s sort of touching it already, but what
advice would you give to leaders who
feel pressured to adopt AI, but unsure
where to actually begin?
>> Start by asking the business what they
want. Start by asking your customers
what they want. Probably running both of
those in parallel. And I'm sure you'll
find that there will be a very quick
joining together of those those
requirements, those wants. It's not you
going and saying right I will build this
thing and they will come. No, no, let's
see what people want. Then we build the
thing that they actually want and need
and what we need as an organization. And
that's the point is starting early.
Involve the teams who are actually
operating. Talk to the customers as part
of this. Learn from them and then you
will truly understand what it is that is
necessary. um still may not work but at
least you've got something there that is
actually necessary. It's not tech first,
it is business and customer first. Keep
that in mind and you will get something
that actually works. But also I think on
this is have a bit of courage and that
is the thing that I think is lacking at
the moment and these conversations I had
which I came away quite depressed about
in terms of the way people were
approaching this. Everyone's nervous.
Everyone's wary of it. And I can
understand why because well, if it goes
wrong, then you could have problems.
Well, actually, yes, life things go
wrong. But what do you do? You pick
yourself up, you dust yourself down, and
you go back into it. And that's the way
it should be on something like this. But
if you're doing it in a way that is
business, is customerdriven, is mindful
of the regulations and what you're
trying to achieve. You're not trying to
do something ridiculous to start with,
it won't go wrong. It will work. And
it's having that courage to be able to
do it. So yeah, talk to the business,
talk to the customers, have courage.
Hey, simple, isn't it? I Yeah. Yes, of
course.
>> Unfortunately, not many people do it.
The simple things people find very
difficult. And I think courage sometimes
can be a much more lucrative thing than
people actually think.
>> It can be with your tail between your
legs.
>> Exactly. It's It's just no way to do it.
There's no way to do it. And that is the
point. That is what it comes down to.
Clients won't wait for you. If you don't
do it, your competitors will. Well, may
they do, I don't know, but the very
least, you're going to get some sort of
agile little startup popping up in your
particular business area in in your
particular client segment, and you could
find yourself in a lot of trouble.
>> And David, I know we kind of touched on
AI and automation, but I know as a
whole, insurance is still a relationship
driven business. Yes.
>> To get insight, how do you maintain that
trust? And a lot more of these processes
are starting to be automated now.
>> It's a very good question. How do you
maintain that? Because insurance in the
London and Lloyd's market in particular
is peopledriven. Lloyds is still a lot
of face-to-face business. You still have
brokers going in sitting opposite an
underwriter and talking about the risk
and building that relationship and
building that trust and thinking, "Well,
actually, this broker, they've brought
me these things before. They've brought
me good business. They know what they're
talking about. I trust that they're not
going to give me a load of old rubbish."
So it helps in that and it's also in
terms of the underwriters when they're
sharing capacity on this. It's vitally
important. So where do you go with this?
Well, you use technology to make things
more efficient, but it then gives you
that time to build on and work on those
relationships. But sitting underneath it
as well, it's understanding how these
decisions are actually being made. Is it
a black box that's doing this that no
one understands? Hey, look, I put your
details in here and it spits out your
insurance policy at the other end. Well,
what's going on there? How does it work?
How are you actually judging what I'm
bringing to you? Apart from well, it's
just a machine that does it for us. That
doesn't work. It's having that
explanability that sits alongside it.
It's also understanding where it sits in
the value chain of the service and the
product that you're actually providing.
Are you divorcing yourself from a
decision making? Well, going back to a
very old series, the computer says no on
something like this. Or actually, we
thought about it. there is something
that underlies it maybe in the pricing
maybe in the development of the product
where you're using the technology to
support that but actually there's still
a human in the loop now it's going to
depend on the type of product if you're
doing something mass market then there's
a strong understanding that that is
going to be moving forwards into quite a
technicaldriven
approach to it and actually as a
consumer I probably quite want that
because I want to know I'm getting a
good price out of it it's going to be
really simple to do and I'm going to be
being a really good service. I saw one
of was it last year's Lemonade, it's an
American property entity. I can't
remember insurer or cover holder anyway,
one of those. Anyway, and they did a
press release to say, "Hey, we paid a
claim." So, from notification of the
claim to money going into the claimant's
bank account was 2 seconds.
Now,
okay, I quite like the idea of doing
that. I think that's quite amazing. But
how do you know you're getting the right
decision on this? It's sometimes it's
sometimes it's not the the speed of the
journey, it's the quality of the journey
that you're going through as part of
this. Do I trust it in that situation?
I'm not sure. Maybe I could learn and
build that trust, but I'll be very wary
of it to start with as part of it. And
it's finding that situation where that
human judgment comes in as part of it.
You particularly see that in the London
market where you're looking at basically
some weird stuff that's sometimes coming
in of what is this? Okay, this is a very
difficult situation. We've got maybe a
stressed case. How do we find a way
through that actually gives the customer
what they want but also provides the
protection to the parties involved as
part of it? And it will come with time.
There will come with I think that
organic evolved approach to tech being
launched within the market where you're
starting out with it being driven by the
business and the customer needs that it
will grow, it will evolve and the trust
will grow and evolve as that continues
rather than just sort of lobbing in an
enormous great piece of tech or
something like that. It just creates
huge great problems and everyone's
running for cover at the end of it
including your customers. I mean, can't
blame the customers at the end of the
day, right?
>> Ultimately,
>> we're having a conversation honestly,
David, but I was going to ask, so you
talked about explanability. Do you do
you think that's the main reason why
firms are kind of scared to adopt AI?
>> Well, if you've got the CEO of Chat GPT
saying, "I don't understand how this
thing works." I mean, what hope is there
for a like me on something like this?
It's a big issue. How the hell do you
explain the unexplainable when the
people who should be able to explain it
can't? Yeah, it's a problem. I think
it's something that holds people back
because you particularly in the
financial services industry have an
interesting thing which is the senior
managers regime which means people who
are in specific roles are authorized by
the regulator. If something goes wrong
they are held personally accountable by
the regulator for the thing that has
gone wrong. Now that can be personal
fines that can be being thrown out of
the industry as a whole. That's pretty
major. Do you want to do something that
could end up like that? No, not in the
slightest. I didn't even have to think
about that. I said it because that's
exactly how everyone else feels. So,
actually, it's creating an environment
and a climate of risk adversity. People
don't want to take that those risks
because of what comes through. But what
did I say earlier on? Courage. Courage
is also necessary. Courage of people to
look at these things and think, "Yeah,
we're doing this in the right way." if
and I don't expect it to if it does go
wrong we're in a position to be able to
explain and understand why and control
any potential issues that come out of
it. So it is uh courage it's a risk
management that sits alongside it as
well but I keep coming back to the
courage on there and that rather
depressing conversation I had
>> and David I was also going to ask our
clients expecting more digital
convenience now from what you see or can
they still do regular face to face
conversations?
>> It depends. It depends on what's going
on. Say for example, you're dealing with
a medical policy, medical insurance
policy. In that situation, if you're
having a blood test or you need some uh
repeat prescription or something like
that, you want that done as quickly as
possible with the minimal level of
impact on you as an individual. And
that's good for you, but it's also good
for the insurer because it's minimizing
the costs, but it's also minimizing the
time stress costs for the customer as
well. However, if you're going on a very
difficult medical journey, maybe you're
dealing with cancer or something like
that, I would suggest I would suggest
you don't want that and I would suggest
that as an organization, if you are
there saying to your team, people who
are working on your phone lines,
actually I want you to spend an hour
with that person talking to them,
helping them through, helping them
understand what needs to be done, then
that's great. That is absolutely
brilliant. But if you're finding ways to
automate where you possibly can to
enable them to spend more time dealing
the difficult cases, it's a win-win for
everybody. And that's what I think it
is. I think it's the nature of the
transaction. And we're all going down
certain routes with particularly on our
car insurance and house insurance and
things like that. And how many times
have we always ended up banging our
heads against the table as the next
problem occurs and it drops out or there
are particular problems like that. Yeah,
there's a time and a place.
>> No, I definitely do agree with that. I
think even a previous podcast we had, we
touched on the use of AI within the
medical field. I know it's different to
the insurance field, but I got asked a
question is would you rather have
surgery, a robot do a heart surgery on
you or would you rather have a human do
um do the surgery on you? And there's a
lot of different thoughts and views on
it in terms of you want to have that
human interaction, that human
connection, but at the same time, if an
AI can offer that 100% accuracy, it ends
up being quite a weird one.
>> It really does. And I think it's it's
the nature of the wrong word, but the
best one I can think of, the transaction
you're involved in and what that is in
terms of what you as a customer actually
want. And I and I think probably saying
something completely wrong here, but if
you are if you are listening to what the
customer wants in terms of the nature of
the transaction and giving them that as
opposed to you as a business saying to
your customer, this is the transaction
that you will experience because it is
the best transaction for us. There is a
difference. Now, it's not one or zero.
There needs to be a balance that sits
alongside it. But listen to what the
customer wants out of it rather than
just what you want to apply.
>> Definitely. And um David, I also want to
touch on the London market in general is
always under pressure to evolve. So what
trends do you think Lloyd's broker
should be started paying close attention
to?
>> Evolve themselves and I think that is
the most important part that sits
alongside this. It has to be. you're
seeing more well I suppose it's looking
at it it's in terms of embedded
insurance coming through which is
meaning it's direct transaction between
the insurer and the customer you're
seeing more customers being enabled to
work directly with insurers where
traditionally they'd have had a broker
in place what does it mean to be a
broker so what is the broker of the
future going to look like and this is
where it can get interesting this is
just me sort of just randomly coming up
with stuff of what I think it should
part consultant working with their
customer, finding solutions to them, for
them for what they need. Part analyst
because they need to go in and talk to
the customer and find out what it is
they actually need, then find those
solutions for it. Relationship manager,
so you're actually then working
together. What is it you're looking at
at the moment? So clients now,
particularly the more digitally savvy,
the newer ones, they're expecting more
from their broker than just an annual
conversation when it comes up to
renewal. They want to find out
information. They want to see how things
are going. They want proactive guidance.
And I think that's where it comes down
to. So this is where it comes back to
this broker of the future, this sort of
renaissance person who can achieve all
of these things. But the big thing for
me is what it comes down to is it's an
innovator. The market is very old in
terms of what's gone here. So what is
it? Lloyds of London 1660s first started
in the coffee house and it's changed and
it's moved on from there and I'm a fan
of history and I've seen how thing you
can see how things have changed. We need
to ensure the innovation is there. What
is the next product product you're
looking for? What are you going to do
about intangible assets? If you've got a
company where 80% of their value sits in
their intangible assets, how are you
going to find a way to provide insurance
that gives the people those businesses
the coverage they need um want at a
price that is right? How you going to
deal with their intellectual property,
their brands, their customers, their
data stores that they have? All of that
is potentially insurable. All of that is
something that the market could say well
we could help you with that using the
data using the innovation using the
courage to develop these things. You can
do that and I think this is where the
broker plays such an important part in
the market. It can innovate. It should
innovate. It must innovate because it
has the direct contact with the customer
and it's using that knowledge. It's
using those relationships to develop
something it can then go to the market
with and say well how's about this then?
and see what it comes up with.
>> I definitely agree, David. I mean, we
have a lot of saying we say innovate or
get left behind.
>> You do. Going back to that bit, you're
like sat on the side of the road as
everyone roars past you off in the
distance with your customers. Um, and
that's not going to work. But it's
making the industry relevant. If you
look at the insurance industry, it is
very much based on what I would call old
business. the the insurance of things.
It's the insurance of buildings, of
machinery, liabilities. Okay, maybe not
things, but it's there. There are so
many new things that are coming through,
particularly in that intangible thing.
That's absolutely great. I I messed
about on chat GPT and I put something on
LinkedIn about this. I pushed it to say,
come on, what is the most crazy thing
that we could ensure? And it came up
with something. I said, no, no, I want
more want more crazy than that. And it
came back with what was it called
parallel self insurance. So it's the
idea that we all make decisions every
day. And if you make a decision, it will
take you in one direction. If you don't
take a decision, you would have gone in
another direction. But what would happen
if say for example that other direction
that you could have gone in would have
put you in a better position than you
are in with the direction you've
actually taken here?
So actually when you decided well I'm
not going to take that job actually I'm
going to stay where I am and actually if
you taken that job you may have made
more money you may have made more
bonuses you may have met someone new and
to formed a relationship I don't know
what's part of it but anyway it came up
with this idea of well how could we
could use AI and large um and modeling
to work out what could have been and say
well actually you went that way but if
you went there you could have got that
will pay you to put you in the position
that you should have been on there. And
it's just completely nuts when it comes
down to it. But that's what we should be
doing in the industry is looking at
these things and thinking, well, someone
could suffer a loss on this that creates
an insurable interest, which means we
could sell something. Now, whether
someone would want to buy that is, but
that's that's what it comes down to. And
that's where we should be looking at
that innovation. Where next?
>> If I had that policy, I'd be claiming a
lot.
>> Yeah, I know. Exactly. Exactly. I'd
dread to think how much I'd be owed on
it myself, but that's another story
entirely.
>> So David, just to wrap up, um, so
obviously you spoken about innovation.
So in the insurance space, what changes
or what expectations do you have within
the next let's say 12 to 24 months?
>> A good question. Unfortunately, in the
Lloyd's market, I think we will still be
talking about blueprint 2, which is the
digitization of the market. And we have
a new CEO coming into Lloyds of London
and I hope he will be pushing this
forwards because it is a little bit
frustrating. Elsewhere I think we will
see I hope more insurex coming in
because I think that is vital to our
industry. It's sort of like that
electric jolt that we need to get things
done and to innovate and to change. But
it also creates healthy competition
which is no bad thing for anybody in the
industry and also more importantly for
our customers. I think we're seeing the
FCA, Financial Conduct Authority,
realize that they've gone too far in
their regulation and start rowing back
on that. And I hope that will have a
positive impact on firms in terms of
being less risk averse. To me, insurance
is all about taking risks. Well, we take
risks, take on risks for people, but it
means we need to take a risk. We may
have to pay out and we do it in a
controlled way. I think in the industry
there has been too much of a movement to
risk adversity. We don't want to take
risks because of the implications of
that from a regulatory perspective, from
a reputational perspective if something
goes wrong and blows up and everyone's
pointing at you and saying what the hell
have you just done to the costs that are
associated with it and it's I hope we
will see more courage in the industry
during that time and that will manifest
itself in developments in new ideas the
adoption of technology and
a better service for everybody. Yeah,
100% agree with you, David, on that.
David, this has been a very, very
insightful conversation. Really did
enjoy your views and the topics we've
covered. For our viewers listening, what
would be the best way to kind of find
out a bit more about yourself?
>> Look me up on LinkedIn. Um, I'm quite I
tend to publish quite a lot on there in
terms of what's just annoyed me or what
I'm interested in or what I've been
thinking about or what I'm up to. So,
have a look at that. Reach out. Um, I'm
always interested in talking to
interesting people. Let's took it put it
that way. Time permitting of course. And
we go on on that basis. To me, I'm in
the insurance industry, an industry I
love. I love to share that with people.
>> And that's a wrap- up of the Levis
shift. David, we thank you much again
for your time today. Really did enjoy
the conversation.
>> Brilliant. And thank you for your time.
I've thoroughly enjoyed it as well. I
hope I've not bored people too badly.
No.