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Tomorrow can be different from today.
Our lives often leave us feeling hopeless—like nothing will ever change. But perspective is everything. When you know where to look, hope can be found in the spaces and places you least expect.
Join Jason Gore (Lead Pastor of Hope Community Church) for a fresh perspective, practical steps, and weekly encouragement that hope really is possible… even in real life.
The world is in, in like walking dead apocalypse, right?
Like in three days. Yeah. You know?
'cause the lights need turned on. Yeah.
And the traffic lights need checked. Yeah.
And the bank needs to be run
and you know, like everything falls apart if
you don't go do your job.
Right. That's where it goes back to.
Like, you have to have a vision
and a, a purpose for yourself.
Welcome to the Hope and Real Life podcast with Jason Gore.
Our team is passionate
and committed to bringing you more hope in the everyday
real areas of your life.
If this conversation and content is valuable for you,
please do us a favor, like, subscribe, and even share.
You never know how valuable it could be
to share a little bit of hope with someone else.
Let's get the conversation started.
Well, welcome back. Hope in real life family.
We are here today with my good friend Ben Foot.
Always, always a favorite when he is spending time with us.
I mean, he might be a favorite when he is not spending time
with us, but I mean, it's more a favorite when he is.
We are talking this, if you don't know Ben,
it's a husband, father, speaker.
He's now an entrepreneur. We'll get into that a little bit.
This episode is going to be all about the idea of work.
And so whether that's transitions in the workplace,
how do we approach work?
Um, what if we don't like our work? Mm-Hmm.
Uh, and anywhere else the conversation might go.
So Ben, great. Welcome back. Thanks,
Man. Yeah.
Glad to be here. Uh, let's, why don't we just look,
let's just jump right in.
Uh, high level, what is the purpose of work?
Um, well, this is, I do so, okay. That's a big question.
It is a big question. I think this is where, like,
following Jesus is makes life a little bit easier.
Yeah. Because following Jesus gives you like a foundation
for how to view everything Yeah.
In the world, including work.
So like, if you don't follow Jesus, I don't know
how you answer that question.
Yeah. You know, like maybe,
And knowing that we probably got a lot of listeners
that might not be Yeah.
So and so probably realizing there's more than
one paradigm Yeah.
For that question to live
In. I mean, I,
I'd love to hear
what they thought work was, you know?
Yeah. Like, it's just making money
or something to just like a necessary
evil of life or whatever.
But like within our worldview, um, work is like basically
what we were designed to do.
You know? So like, if you go read Genesis,
like the very first verse of the Bible, you know,
in the beginning, God cre in the beginning God
got to work, you know?
Right. Yeah. Um, and then he
Did something very productive.
Yeah. He got his hands dirty. Yeah.
He, you know, created, he worked.
And then like, even in perfection, like
before things get screwed up, like in the first chapter
of Genesis, it's called like the cultural mandate.
But like, God tells people like, go be fruitful,
go multiply, fill the earth, subdue it, rule over the, like,
he tells you like, go get to work.
Yeah. You know? So like in our worldview,
it's like we're created, um, like spiritually we're created
to, to glorify God and relationally we're created
to walk and talk with him.
But like functionally we're created to work. Yeah.
Like co-create with him, go, go help him, uh,
further the creation project together.
Yeah. And I think a lot of times we miss it.
Like when, when the Bible says in Genesis as you said,
that we're created in his image.
Mm-Hmm. That's a large part of what that means.
Like he's, he is a creator.
He is productive, he is building things that are good.
And so us being created in that image, we actually take on
and have been, have taken on that not only
that responsibility,
but like that that ability Yeah. The ability to
Create, go get to Work. The ability
to work. Yeah. Mm-Hmm.
And that, that was even imperfection. Right.
Which like, because I sometimes I think we think about it
like, I have to work.
Yeah. You know? 'cause I gotta make money. Like
What if Eve had just not taken advantage?
It's all hard. We just get to be fruitful and multiply.
That's it. But we didn't have to do the other thing
That part's fun. That is
No one complains about that. Yeah.
But yeah, even imperfection, man,
like two, I mean two things.
Imperfection. He's like, go get to work.
Like, this project isn't done yet,
so let's co-create together.
And then also imperfection, he's gives Sabbath.
So it's like Yeah. Also once a week, like,
let's take a break from doing this work thing together.
That, that was before things were hard. Right.
You know, so like, work in the big
asked, like the big overview of work
and the big overview of work is anything
that moves the creation project like forward.
Yeah. So,
Uh, and then we'll, don't I caught, I caught it.
It's good. It's good. And the lids on.
So it's good. And it almost spilled
on all the electronic equip
For those that are watching and listening.
Um, are are good friend Ben
that we always appreciate when he is here.
Almost spilled water all over some electronics. I did. I
Just ruined his place.
Hey. Uh, so that's one paradigm.
But let, let's kind of speak to the other paradigm.
And I, and I think, uh, I think I can a little bit.
When, when I was in, I grew up my, um,
my dad was a custom cabinet maker, and then he
Worked custom cabinet cabinet
Maker. Yeah. So grew up
a lot of time in the wood shop
and in the cabinet shop.
And then my stepdad, uh, was also an entrepreneur.
He had his own business, apex propane.
And then my, then my dad,
not only did he have the cabinet shop,
but he also worked for the railroad.
And so it was like, for all of our entrepreneurs out there,
you know, like when you run
a business, it just doesn't stop.
Like, like you've Mm-Hmm. Got work to do.
And so you go and get it done.
But they both were pretty successful at
what they did and how they did it.
So I, I grew up with that understanding,
but we didn't,
we didn't have the business that like made millions.
Right? Mm-Hmm. And so we were largely a blue collar family.
And, and that was great.
But I also had this thing in my mind of like, man, a lot
of my friends do have more than I have.
And I wonder like what it would be like
to have an opportunity to, to have more than that.
Mm-Hmm. And so for me,
and then with the sports background, a lot of
that just came into, okay,
well you gotta grind, you gotta work.
And so I went into college really thinking, my goal is
to get this business degree and then either go
and get an MBA or jump into the business world
and I'm gonna make a lot of money.
Mm-Hmm. Um, in fact, one
of the things I did in college was I was a valet
and I for a company,
and I specifically requested to do so at the country club.
Uh, not because I ever really wanted
to be a part of a country club.
Sorry, listeners, if you're a part
of a country club, I'm sure it's great. You just
Lost an invite. It's a,
Yeah.
It's a little bit more bougie
for my than my taste typically.
Uh, but, uh,
but there were really nice cars that came through there.
Oh, okay. And so for me that was almost like this reminder
of no, there is more Mm-Hmm.
Keep grind and keep working. Mm-Hmm.
And so I came out of college, you know,
some things happened towards the end of college
where like God really grabbed a hold of me
and started to change my perspective,
but I'd already kind of set off down a career path.
And so for me it was all about how do I get a job
that then will lead to a paycheck,
that then I can get the next job
and then I can get the next job
and then I can get the next job.
But even in that, I mean, if that's all work was Yeah.
Like number one that is draining. Mm-Hmm.
When you don't actually, what, like what if you have a job
that you don't necessarily like,
or what if you don't love your field forever,
but you've gotten here to here, to here to here,
and now there's no going back.
Mm-Hmm. Um, straining.
Secondly, like, man, that can be purposeless. Right.
Right. I mean, at some point,
even whether you get it or you don't.
I mean, let's say you get it all. Okay, now I have money.
Now what? What? Yeah.
Or worst case, I was fighting
for the money and I didn't get it.
Mm-Hmm. And I got fired, or I'm not getting the
promotion over and over again.
Man, you gotta admit, like at some point,
and I know we probably got a lot of listeners like, yeah.
That, that's where I am. Mm-Hmm.
And this is, this is frustrating. I don't like work
The purposeless like the visionless aspect of work.
I mean, like, I talk to people all the time where, like
what you said, so the goal is I got this paycheck
and my next goal is that this paycheck goes up and up
and I get this role and this role and this role.
And it's like your vision is to just make a lot of money.
Right. Well, you know,
then you get there, you make a lot of money.
You have all the cars that, you know,
you saw at the country club.
Now what? Right.
Or the purpose is like, I've got something to prove.
Maybe that was, I don't know if that was part of your story,
but like, you know, I grew up in this
kind of blue collar family.
I'm gonna prove that there's, you know, if you grind,
you can do something bigger than that.
Yeah. And it's like, well then you achieve it. Now what?
Right. It's like, it's not a good vision for your life.
And you spend 90,000 hours on average,
you spend 90,000 hours working
In a lifetime. In a
lifetime. So you've Done the math.
Yeah, I did. The math is 22% of your waking life. Wow.
Like on average you spend,
I just looked at it this morning again
to kinda like refresh my memory.
Um, on average you spend like 42,000 hours
with your friends and family.
Wow. Did you spend twice as as much time working?
You know, if you don't have a vision for why
what you do is important
and it's more than just making a buck.
Well, dude, that's why we talk to all the people who,
you know, I, I'm sure you have too,
but I've talked to a lot of people who pull up in like,
you know, the newest Tesla and they're visionless
and like aimless in cyber.
Yeah. The cyber truck. I saw a cyber truck
on the road the other day.
Yeah. I have all kinds of thoughts about Teslas,
but I won't share them because, um, well, I do, I mean,
Elon Musk, I don't, you know,
I don't need him mad at us throwing stones over
X or anything like that either.
So, um, man. Yeah. I Well, let's do this.
Um, you've, you've recently made a big career choice
and so I, I know there's probably some
folks out there that are like, yeah.
Um, not doing the job
that I thought I would wanna do forever.
And, uh, I really would like a move.
But, you know, I don't know if I've really got
what it takes or if this is the right time.
Why don't you just talk a little bit for a minute about your
recent career change and what that looks like
for you. Sure.
So I pastored at a church in Colorado for 12 years.
Um, and then in April of last year,
2023 stepped off of staff.
Okay. So, I mean, I still do ministry, so it's not,
not like I did a complete career change.
Um, but I stepped off of a staff. I just contract.
So like, that's why I'm here now.
You know, like building
relationships with other, other churches.
Some churches just need help teaching right now. Mm-Hmm.
Some churches, like the lead pastor's, like I, dude,
I just need like one weekend with my family.
Yeah. Um, so I travel around teach at different places.
Uh, but we made that decision just
'cause we were, um, I mean this might sound foreign
to some people, but I'm sure you get it.
Like, we just felt very clearly God was going like,
you have a, it is time for you
to do something different and mix it up right now.
Um, so we mixed it up, but it was a little terrifying.
'cause I go, we go from like, you know, I have,
I'm on staff, I have like a regular paycheck.
I have, my insurance is paid for.
You know, like, there's a package. You mean?
It was, It was when you were, yeah. Yeah.
And now it's like we're just out here on our own. Right.
Um, and yeah, so it's been pretty terrifying.
It's been really rewarding.
But, um, we just decided to mix it up.
I was starting to feel not purposeless
or aimless, but just in a rut man.
And like, I'm sure, I'm sure many
people know what that feels like.
Yeah. You know, it's just like, I'm just doing the same
thing that I've been doing for years and years and years.
And sometimes that's a good thing.
But for us it was like,
I'm just getting exhausted by it. Yeah.
Hope in real life family.
I want to take a moment and let you know about a resource
that we have for you for your own personal development,
spiritual enrichment, and really a way for you
to find a bit more hope in real life.
We have a tool for you called the Hope in Real Life app.
It offers things like parenting tips, financial resources,
marriage insights, uh, if you're looking for it,
there's even Bible reading plans in there.
And there's a community
where you can even share prayer requests
and know that someone is praying for you for whatever it is
that you have going on in your life.
It's available right now in the Apple App
Store or in Google Play.
You can search hope in real life in both stores,
or you can use the download link that is in the show notes.
Remember, tomorrow can be better than today
and hope is possible even in real life.
So for you, what was it that like,
'cause I'm sure you didn't just wake up one day
and say, Hey, I'm thinking about making a change.
I'm gonna make a change. Here's my resignation. Mm-Hmm.
Like, what was it, what was the, what was
that time period like in between where you thought, okay,
maybe it's time for a change,
and then what was the, the moment that that actually led you
to it's time to pull the trigger?
Honestly, I, it was like a year
and a half of Ally and I talking about it.
You can leave names out if you mind. I'm just kidding.
Um, it was like a year and a half Ally.
Ally and I talking about, it's my wife talking about it.
Um, exploring other ideas, like what motive, if we went
and worked at a different church, what if I just
didn't do ministry anymore?
Yeah. What if, you know, exploring different options.
Um, but I kept coming back to like, the thing I, I know I,
I want to do is I love teaching
and I, I feel I've been gifted at it
and that's the only thing in my life
that I feel like it would be disobedient
if I stopped doing it.
Yeah. Right now. So it's like I have to teach,
but I need a break from being on staff at a church.
It like left us with no options.
And honestly, over that year
and a half, I think that God works this way.
Sometimes He did. At least in my life, he just like made us
so dissatisfied.
Yeah. That eventually it was like,
I'd rather literally not know
where my next paycheck comes from than
continue being this dissatisfied.
Yeah. So we just pulled the trigger. Gotcha.
Right. And it's working out so far. It's
Working out. I mean,
know money's very different, right.
And, uh, but the like, I mean, that's like one
of the few cons right now, honestly.
Yeah. There's been so many pros.
I know for me, I was, um, gosh, maybe 24,
I don't know, more than a couple of decades ago.
Mm-Hmm. Uh, I was working in sales, um,
for a company here in the triangle making more money than
probably a 24-year-old.
Definitely needed to make Mm-Hmm. Maybe should have made.
Uh, and, but I was serving at this church, uh,
which is the same church ironically
that I'm on staff at now.
And, but I was involved in the youth ministry,
I'd helped start a college ministry.
Um, times were really desperate.
So like, there were times where I was a worship leader.
If you don't know what that means in church world,
like I had a guitar and sang and lead bands
and, um, it was, um, not great.
We call those the dark years, but we, um,
but I mean, that, that was, that's where I put my time.
But my and my wife was right alongside me in,
in ministry is, you know, what we call that
and what this folks call that.
But it got to a point to where we were probably serving
25, 30 hours a week.
Mm-Hmm. Outside of work.
And I got to a point where I was like, okay, so this is nice
and the the paycheck is really great,
but man, this is life giving.
And, and I wanna be really clear here
'cause we're, you know, you got a couple guys on here
that work in ministry,
you're going where I'm going right now.
You know, we got people thinking like, okay, what,
what do these guys even know about work work anyway?
But what, but whether that's your question
or not, what I'm not saying is your purpose needs to be,
you're gonna find purpose if you leave the marketplace
secular world and go staff at the church.
In fact, I would say if you understand your purpose
as a child of God in the secular world,
I actually would say, for God's sakes, please stay there.
Mm-Hmm. Um, the world needs men
and women who will bring a light to a dark place, um,
on a daily basis that the church
otherwise would never get to.
Mm-Hmm. And so that's not what I'm saying.
But for us, we just felt a very similar discontent.
Now, I don't know if the discontent was,
I I don't like this.
'cause that wasn't necessarily the case.
I, I liked actually working in sales.
I love building relationships.
For me, I view sales as, you know, you're just taking care
of people and you're helping them
meet the needs that they have.
And so I, I loved that, but man, this was so life giving
and I felt like I could create in a way
that I wasn't having somebody else telling me like, Hey,
you don't really create anything.
Mm-Hmm. You just go and take care of people. Mm-Hmm.
And then you give them what we've already created.
And so I just got to a point to where I was like, man, I,
I wonder if there's a way that I could go and do this.
And, um, the, and hope came to me one day
and said, Hey, um, we'd love to have you come on staff
and, um, we're gonna pay you a lot less
money than you currently make.
Mm-Hmm. And, and they did. Mm-Hmm. And a lot less.
And, uh, so I ended up going on set.
But like, for us, like, it was kind of a similar thing.
We just got to a point where I was like, man, there's
so much life over here in this.
We're gonna take a swing.
Um, but gosh, I I don't wanna keep talking.
There's probably two or three other big transitions, um,
that I could talk through and maybe I'll come back,
but any you said that's where I'm going.
Anything you were gonna say about that? Yeah,
So, um, I wanna be careful
because I think we compartmentalize a lot, right.
And we, especially, we say like, there's Jesus stuff
that we do, and then there's not Jesus stuff we do.
So like, you know, I'm going to church this morning,
that's Jesus stuff where I woke up and read my Bible
and I prayed and that's Jesus stuff.
And then everything else is not Jesus stuff, right.
'cause I'm just paying the bills and making
dinner and whatever.
It's like, that's just not how it works.
And so if we compartmentalize, then there's the tendency
for people to go like, well, I guess the only kind
of Jesus work is if you work at a church
or like work at a nonprofit.
And that's just like a bad way
of viewing really bad your life and the world
and not even like Sure, great.
Like be a witness in a dark place,
but also just like your job is is short
of like illegal activity or whatever.
Like your job is Jesus stuff, right? Yeah.
Because it's moving the creation project forward,
Right? Like work can
be worship, should
Be work is worship. Yeah. Like,
um, if everyone quit their jobs today,
I mean we're, we're one of the few people,
if we quit our jobs today, everything's gonna be just fine.
Yeah. Oh, that's, you know,
Don't, don't say that again. It's true.
It's like our, like our, we work for Right.
A movement that's not gonna go anywhere. Right.
But like if everyone else quits their jobs,
like the world is in,
in like walking dead apocalypse like in three days.
Yeah. You know, 'cause the lights need turned on
and the traffic lights need checked
and the bank needs to be run
and you know, like everything falls apart if
you don't go do your job.
Right. That's where it goes back to.
Like, you have to have a vision and a purpose for yourself.
Like, I even tell people who are struggling
with their like career
and feel just like, uh, aimless in it and stuff.
I challenge people like make an actual vis vision statement
for yourself with your job.
Yeah. Like, I did that for myself.
So mine is to creatively communicate a constant god
to a constantly changing culture.
If I'm doing that, I'm achieving my vision. Right.
That's how I, I like, I was able to quit my job,
make less money, not know
where my next paycheck's gonna come from,
but also feel like I'm on mission.
Right. Because I'm still achieving my vision statement.
Right. If my vision statement was
to continually make more money, I'm failing.
Right. Right. But it's not my vision statement. Yeah.
Do you like having, um, a clear picture of why your job is
ministry that doesn't just involve like,
well maybe I can invite someone to church.
Not how is your job a ministry Right.
Is like a key to life fulfillment. Yeah. Um, like
God has placed people in your life where you work
that will probably never have an opportunity to come face
to face with Jesus.
Possibly, would never have an opportunity to come face
to face with Jesus if you don't view your life
as ministry in the
Workplace. So yes,
absolutely.
But also you have to figure out how is my job ministry?
Yeah. So, okay.
So, um, I, at our old house a few years ago,
we had, it was like a split level
and the bottom level had, um, like a sewage backup.
So we had like literal sewage
Love where this is going seep,
no idea where this is going.
We had literal sewage seeping into
our basement, into our carpet.
Like it was disgusting.
So we call this random plumber that like was, you know,
our insurance recommended to us.
This guy comes over to our house
and he is like, Hey, are you Ben,
do you go work at the church?
And we're like, yeah. He starts talking.
He goes, my dad was a pastor.
And he goes, and I always kind
of thought I would follow in his footsteps,
but he goes, I was just kind of good with my hands, good
with, you know, fixing things.
And he goes, so I just got into plumbing.
And he goes, but it took me a few years before I realized,
and this is what he said, he goes,
I like literally step into the crappiest no joke.
Like situations in people's lives Yeah.
And make them better for them. Yeah.
And he goes, my job is like just as much ministry
as my dad's job is.
Yeah. Because I'm, I'm helping, I'm serving people. Yeah.
It's like, dude, he had a vision for how plumbing
is like his job is necessary and fruitful.
Yeah. If you don't have that
for your job, you are gonna be miserable. Yeah.
Hope and real life family.
Another great conversation as always with Ben Foot.
We are going to press pause here on this episode so
that we can keep the conversation going
over into episode two.
Such an important topic, then how we view work.
So we're gonna press pause now. We will pick it back up.
Thanks for tuning in and we will see you on the other side.
Let's keep sharing hope. Thanks for tuning in
to this episode of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
If this content was valued
before you don't forget, like, subscribe, share.
You never know how important it could be
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