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Explore poems read by the two authors in conversation with each other, then follow your own fish to unlock your own creativity, and share it with us.
Hello. I'm so happy to be here with Deborah and sharing our favorites from our own poetry collections. I have to say, just the process of looking back through poems I've written over the years was fun and sometimes poignant. Sometimes realizing that a poem that I thought was great before is actually not that great. Occasionally being like, wow, that really hit what I was going for.
Sue:And it takes me right back there. Which reminds me how important it is to write down a phrase that crosses my brain pan. Because from that first phrase, well, it's about giving into a subconscious thought, following the fish this podcast is named for. That mysterious inspiration and journey that the writing of poetry can bring. What you see is who you are, and what you write is who you are under the surface, because writing is thought made visible, even those thoughts you didn't know you had, the stories in you that well up from who knows where.
Sue:So I'm going to be today reading a poem that I just wrote. This is a poem I wrote for my dad. It's called Punch a hole in the sky, dad. Spangle your way with atoms and energy, accelerating, spacing out subatomic particles, undoing the weak and strong forces holding together the unique arrangement of you. But for a wisp of warmth and love, a good joke, a patted hand held on a companionable afternoon as rain patters on the windows in the sitting room of the home you built with mom.
Sue:This lovely house and you, the gravitational center of the family. Godspeed, dad. May your sparkling out let you experience the way the universe works, the unknowable experience of the physics you've loved all your life. May your departure be gentle and fascinating, finally at peace.
Deborah:Oh, so moving and beautiful. The first stanza is really dynamic and very loving. We begin to understand we are marking the passage of a truly one of a kind person. And in the second stanza, you begin with this marvelous alliteration, a wisp of warmth. And then the third stanza, this lovely house and you, the gravitational center of the family.
Deborah:Just two lines, but they say so much about the life behind and this enormous transition. And I love how you use physics here to describe the family life of a scientist, the gravitational center of the family. And in your last stanza, you write, may your sparkling out, that is a great verb, let you experience the way the universe works, the unknowable experience of the physics you've loved all your life. This carries so much appreciation for who your father was. And with the regrets, there's hope.
Deborah:You say, may your departure be gentle and fascinating, finally at peace. And that's just lovely word choice for this very creative vision of your dad's exit. So just a remarkably tender, visionary, and loving poem. Now how did this vision of your father's exit from his life come to you?
Sue:I guess I've had long enough to think about it. He's been failing for quite some time. Yeah. And he was absolutely, with his face set against it, you know, he really never did get comfortable with the idea that this was the end of life. He was very matter of fact.
Sue:He was a high energy particle physicist, so that's kind of what I'm alluding to with the weak and strong forces. I didn't go into too much detail because I'm going to read this as a eulogy, and there will be actual physicists in the audience, so I wanted to be I didn't mention things that were incorrect because they'd all be like But the idea of punching a hole in the sky, you know, I just had my dad kind of going like Superman with a fist out in front of him, punching his way out into, I guess, the scattered interstellar dust that is ultimately what we came from and where we'll go. Because my dad had sadly, in some ways sadly, no spiritual beliefs at all. He didn't even believe in, you know, the subconscious. He was very matter of fact, very much here and now and he thought that, you know, social sciences and stuff were just like meh.
Sue:Know, stuff that Yeah, was yeah, he had a real contempt for woo woo stuff and only at the very end of his life did he consider that actually relationships were the most important thing. He actually said that about six months before he died. Wow. And that was really different. My dad was a very sharp, competitive academic person and that's, you know, that was his thing.
Sue:So, I guess, you know, that first, it was the phrase that came to me because what I was talking about in the introduction was capture those phrases that float up in your mind. And I just had this phrase of punch a hole in the sky, dad. And then from that, the rest of the poem pretty much flowed as I wrote it. Just, so I don't really know where all of it came from. I do know that I was really trying to be honest because my relationship with my dad was dappled, know, there were light and dark parts to it.
Sue:And I find that I miss him in kind of the same way that you would miss oxygen. You know, like you just don't think about it every day. But the idea that he's not there anymore is really almost frightening. You know, like, now I'm the next one on the conveyor belt of life. But also, you know, I used to talk to him every day when I was And walking the until relatively recently, he was a pretty sympathetic ear.
Sue:And, like, when we had the bed bugs that I referred to last time, my dad's response was that, know, he couldn't do very much, but I had a ping on my phone when I was in the launderette with 18 bags of, you know, soft furnishings around the house and the giant dryers and I was just like, Oh, God, this is awful. And he the ping on my phone was him sending me a thousand pounds and said, Well, I think that this perhaps might make you feel better. Oh. And you know, it was just the sweetest thing and it
Deborah:That's sweet. Yeah. So, he was clearly thinking of you.
Sue:Well, right. Yeah. And it was trying to capture who he was, I was trying to be really honest about it and to highlight the stuff that was really positive and actually in his last days, you know, I would just sit with him and hold his hand sometimes and he would look at me and say, Oh Susie. And you know, he was suffering and he was kinda guilty that he had been taking up so much of his daughter's lives. Because we would sort of try and take turns to be with him so he wouldn't, because being alone when you're suffering is really awful.
Sue:He had gone past the point where he could really watch anything and remember it. And so, I guess, you know, the idea of Godspeed, even that made me feel uneasy because that suggests a higher being. Dad really, really didn't have any time for that.
Deborah:He may be changing his mind at this point.
Sue:I wish I had a sense that that were true. He wanted to be cremated, you know, his body was taken away. Mhmm. And he went, he wanted to be cremated, and he was cremated on some random Sunday. Oh.
Sue:With nobody there, so it wasn't a funeral and that's what he wanted.
Deborah:And Tony Wally was not meant to
Sue:be Right. Then there's gonna be a celebration of life, which is also what he wanted. But he just didn't want the sort of general rituals that people And you know, don't know how I feel about it. It was, yeah, it was a hard day obviously. But on the other hand, we also had a wedding that happened that next, you know, three days later.
Sue:Wow, wow. And so the whole family had gathered anyway. And that was a huge help. It was a huge help to have people around.
Deborah:I bet, I bet. And to be seeing that motion of life for the next generation.
Sue:Right, right. And I was grateful that I had, I mean, dad would have hated this. I mean, I'd never read it to him because he hated poetry. Just blanket hated it. Yeah.
Sue:You're like, Right, right. So it's sort of ironic. You know, read it as his eulogy. Then we'll see, Is you he still around? I'll be struck down.
Sue:Yeah. But it's been it's been quite the ride.
Deborah:Yeah. Oh my gosh. And you seem to have come so far in this journey, you know, from dealing with the inevitable tensions and resentments to arriving at what feels in this poem like a deep acceptance and appreciation for who he was, together with gratitude for at least some aspects of the life that he and your mother created together for your family. You have any words of wisdom for those of us confronting similar challenges as you as a parent?
Sue:I think one of the things I have been afraid of at times where I have had serious arguments with my parents was what if they died whilst we were on the outs? Because I suspect that that is very much harder to deal with, to have unresolved issues. And with both parents, the fact that they went down fairly gradually, while in some ways feels particularly awful and tragic, on the other hand, it also allows for forgiveness and mellowing and that was incredibly important with my mother. You know, we had like an evening, one evening, when she was just still there sufficiently, but she just lost her competitive edge. Oh wow.
Sue:And it was a magical evening and it allowed me to look after her as she was fading and give her that care that you know, you can do when you, you know, you know, helping her get into bed and that kind of thing. It's the same with babies. Right, right and it's actually, you think, oh it's such a hassle to do that and it was the same with my dad, know, helping him into bed and bringing him a cup of tea in the morning and helping him get up, that is a really precious time where quite often you can both convey a kind of love that goes beyond what you said to me in the cafe yesterday or something like that. And It's kind of the same with changing baby diapers, right? You think you're getting off lightly, but actually changing diapers is a time where there's this particular tenderness.
Deborah:Yeah, it's a real time of intimacy and interchange and connection.
Sue:And there's something also, when Jamie was tiny, it looked like he'd been flung down by angels and that he was still watching them.
Deborah:Yes, you have that sense with newborns. You have that sense of
Sue:And actually, with the elderly and dying, there's a sense of that too. And I don't, I think my dad fought that for the longest time. I hope that when he actually departed, he was not raging quite as hard, but I don't know. Think that he actually was angry about it right up to the end. I don't think he went peacefully.
Sue:You know, my sister was trying to prevent him from getting out of bed, even as, you know, within hours of him dying. Oh gosh. So, it was pretty harsh. But in terms of, you know, what to recommend to people, I mean I guess one thing is, there will be, it will bring up all kinds of conflicts within the family. And that cutting each other a bit of slack, and realizing that people grieve in different ways, those things are mercies and it's also really hard to be a grown up when you yourself are also grieving.
Deborah:Very wise words from the front lines. Thank you, Sue. And I'd love to reread this. Punch a hole in the sky, dad. Punch a hole in the sky, dad.
Deborah:Spanggle your way with atoms and energy accelerating, spacing out, subatomic particles undoing the weak and strong forces holding you holding together the unique arrangement of you. But for a wisp of warmth and love, a good joke, a patted hand held on a companionable afternoon as rain patters on the windows in the sitting room of the home you built with mom. This lovely house and you, the gravitational center of the family. Godspeed, dad. May your sparkling out let you experience the way the universe works, the unknowable experience of the physics you've loved all your life.
Deborah:May your departure be gentle and fascinating, finally at peace.
Sue:Thank you so much, Deborah. It's really touching to hear you read it. Was actually wondering whether you've lost your parents as well. I was wondering if you had anything to add for people who are experiencing that kind of loss.
Deborah:Oh my gosh. I guess I'm really resonating with your words of advice about taking advantage of the connections, the times that you have for connection. And I think my one regret about losing my mother who had Alzheimer's is that I was so torn up about this change in her after having really imagined through my life that we'd have her into her old age and to be herself. And we'd really just have this wonderful, wonderful person that I've known all my life. And then to lose her little by little in that way meant for me that I walled myself off in some ways.
Deborah:I mean, I really tried to do all the right things, take care of her, spend time with her, but I felt like I was not really present with her in the way that I would have wanted to be. So I guess if I could do it again, I would just try to remember that even though we were losing her piece by piece, she was still there. I would just try to be with the person she was at the time.
Sue:You wrote that beautiful poem about apricots. Yeah. Yeah, so I just wanted to recommend to listeners to go back and listen to that episode again.
Deborah:Oh, sweet thanks. Yeah.
Sue:The prompt for today is, why don't why not try a eulogy for somebody that you lost recently? Think about the difference that they made in your life, both personally to others and maybe even to the world. That's the question I'll be asking people at my dad's celebration of life on August 22. I'm really looking forward to hearing stories about him and reflecting on how sometimes we don't even know the difference each of us makes. I want to reread a few lines from Obscurity Unpacked, which was read a few episodes ago to end with.
Sue:The details of each life drift by, not revealing the complexity underneath. Each of us an intricate puzzle piece, a many stranded node that, if untied, will fray the fabric of interconnected lives. Maybe it's better to feel honored and protected by obscurity, to be blessed with quiet ordinary, to have more time and energy than you feel. You're more loved than you believe. You've made a difference that you don't easily see.
Sue:You are, in fact, already famous to your friends and family.
Deborah:Oh, lovely to hear that again, Sue. That's so fitting for this. Since this is our last pair of episodes, we won't be able to feature your poems on future shows, but we will still be delighted to receive them at curiositycatpodcast@Gmail.com and respond to them. I have loved doing this. I just find I really have to scale back a bit in order to create the space in my life to write more.
Deborah:But our library of episodes with their artwork and related resources will remain accessible through curiositycatpodcasts.com. So I hope you and others will continue to enjoy what we have created here. And I want to express my sincere gratitude to you, Sue, for being the inspiration and the hardworking tech expert behind the show. I've learned so much from you, and it has truly been a pleasure. It sure has.
Deborah:Our theme music is Ennio Pessas, On the Loose, played by me, Debra Schmidt, on flute, accompanied by Brian Baker on piano. Production and editing are done by Sue Boudreaux in El Cebronte, California.