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In this inaugural "in-studio" episode of The Wine Centric Show, we sit down with Brian Larky, founder of Dalla Terra Winery Direct. Larkey discusses his innovative wine import model that eliminates the traditional three-tier system by selling directly to importer-distributors.
Drawing on decades of experience, including his time making wines in Italy and working with renowned estates like Ca’ del Bosco, Larky provides insights into the importance of transparent, sustainable business relationships in the wine industry.
Learn how Della Terra champions Italian wines, spirits, and culture across the United States, fostering deep connections between producers, importers, and consumers.
00:00 Introduction to the Wine Centric Show
00:40 Meet Brian Larky: The Maverick of Wine
00:57 Revolutionary Wine Import Model
01:31 Journey from UC Davis to Italy
02:54 The Dalla Terra Business Model
05:08 Building Relationships in the Wine Industry
19:16 The Impact of Tariffs on Wine Imports
26:19 Concluding Thoughts and Future Outlook
Creators and Guests
What is The Wine Centric Show?
🎙 Bringing wine stories, tips, and expert interviews to everyday wine lovers. 🍷
16 Wine Centric - Brian Larky
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[00:00:00]
Matt Weiss: Welcome to the Wine Centric Show where we talk to the titans of the wine business and make it relatable for everybody. I am so happy to introduce my first in studio guest. I. This man is a maverick. He is setting the world of wine on fire by his new import model and the company that he leads and founded in 1990.
It's called Della Terra Winery Direct. This man is a sailor. This man is a wine maker. A wine importer. On and on and on. You'll get to find out in the rest of this episode. Welcome, Mr. Brian Larkey.
Brian Larky: Gra Yeah. And this inaugural in studio. I had to put a clean shirt on for this
Matt Weiss: one. I know I made you put a clean shirt on.
Prego also speaks Italian. Um, let's get right into it. You don't have a lot of time. Talk to me about why Della [00:01:00] Terra Winery Direct was such a. Revolutionary model in the wine world.
Brian Larky: So Della Terra means of the Earth, Dala Terra, and it's Italian wording, and everything we focus on is Italy. So it's Italian wines, Italian spirits, and we think of ourselves as ambassadors for the entire country.
Yeah. So from the Alps all the way down to Sicily. From the east to the west, we are interested in the entire country and the people, um, and the indigenous rivals that come from these different areas. D Terra was formed in my head in the kind of the mid eighties and I was working at, in Napa Valley. Graduated from uc.
Davis got an invitation to go have some experiences in Italy. Um, and went out there and worked for Kado Bosco in French Accord to Northern Italy. Yeah. Making sparkling and still wines. And I had this, I saw how Kado Bosco wines were imported. I was looking at different ideas and, sometimes it's better to be [00:02:00] lucky than smart, and I got lucky, um, in terms of the idea how it kind of hit the market at the time.
And so we, the idea with Winery Direct is we sell directly to the importers in the us, which in most cases are also our distributors. Mm-hmm. Importer distributors. So we eliminate a national importer essentially, and we work directly with each winery. We work with wineries that, for the most part, don't overlap.
So if we're gonna work within a state, for the most part, they, they represent for us one of the apexes, one of the pinnacles of that growing region. And so everything that we do is direct. Our relationships are very transparent. Um, and we're very, very proud of the families that we work with and the long-term relationships.
I mean, this is 35 years and to still be relevant. After 35 years, I think says a lot. Um, both for the producers that we work for, for the business model. The idea is to cut out as much, you know, gra as much fat outta the system as we can, um, and be able [00:03:00] to work directly in each market throughout the United States.
Matt Weiss: So let's unpack a bunch of what you said there. First, you're graduate of uc Davis. It's one of the most highly regarded. En analogy, wine schools in the world, it's definitely number one in the us, probably number one in the world. We have people from all over going to learn how to make wine or perfect their wine making skills there.
Second you mentioned Cadel. Bosco Cadel. Bosco is a winery that makes only sparkling wine in Franciacorta. Think the Champagne of Italy because they make it in that traditional style and, and
Brian Larky: still wine. Yeah.
Matt Weiss: And.
Brian Larky: Oh yeah, they do make still wines shark Cabernet. We don't, we much of their
Matt Weiss: still wines.
Brian Larky: It's, it's, it's, it's a big part of kind of the, the idea of what they, what they started working with and the overall philosophy of the estate. But you're right, it was a founding member in Franciacorta.
Matt Weiss: Yeah. So Franciacorta, if you don't know it. Familiarize yourself with it. It's delicious sparkling wine.
Um, and then the other thing, which I think is [00:04:00] really important in the United States, we have a traditional three tier system, what's called, so you have the wine coming from the winery, you have it then going to an importer, which brings it into this country, and then the importer. Either is a distributor or wholesaler, or they're also then selling to a wholesaler or distributor.
Then it gets to a retailer or a restaurant. Then you, the end consumer buys that and you to simplify, you circumvented a. Essentially two of those tiers or really one main, one of those tiers really. Wine. Yeah. Really
Brian Larky: the national importer. So instead of we, we took kind of a bite out of that, that piece, skipping that and selling directly from the winery to each of the individual importer slash distributors.
Matt Weiss: Yeah.
Brian Larky: And in a sense, um, we're trying to get. The wineries are able to make a little more money with us. The distributors are, make a little more money with us than the consumers able to pay a little less.
Matt Weiss: Yeah.
Brian Larky: By, by doing that. And it gives us really good national control over the distribution. 'cause in the end, [00:05:00] we're representing families, we're telling stories, we're representing families.
Um, and it's one of our greatest choice in life is to be able to go ahead and build these organizations that can do that.
Matt Weiss: Your reputation and I got to know you over these last two days because you mm-hmm. Brought Della Terra Winery, brought direct, brought. 20 different of your wine making supplier teams to Raleigh, North Carolina.
Mm-hmm. To taste with the, the wholesale staff and some of the great restaurants and shops around here. And what a great, great time. We had an amazing, um, entree into your people and the families. And you could see the relationships are, are genuine and special. What I'm, what I'm always after is. How does Della Terra make money on this?
Are you, does the, is it working like a broker model where the wineries are then paying you based on depletions? How does that work?
Brian Larky: Well, is there gonna be the GoFundMe little thing at the bottom of this podcast
Matt Weiss: feature? No, that tho those go to me. I'm not worried. You, you have a Cessna. I'm not worried about you.[00:06:00]
Brian Larky: Well the, the model is basically work on a commission, which is very interesting when you're into, for those who are interested in the kind of the economics of this, there's really. Three ways to do business. One, you can be a winery, walk around, knock on doors, and try and sell your stuff directly in this country.
Um, some do that. The other one is you can sell to a national importer and they deal with it on a national basis.
Matt Weiss: Yeah. They take, they then take care of all the marketing and all the sales.
Brian Larky: Exactly. Yeah. And they tend to buy at a lower price. They handle all the stuff in the middle and they sell at a higher price.
Mm-hmm. And we are a hybrid model, and so we work on a hundred percent commission. And so our commission, um, goes up and down depending on the price. I mean, the commission's fixed. Um, and it's the same for all the wineries. Everyone's in the same boat. But the interesting thing is that we're completely aligned with the estates.
So if the wineries want to raise their pricing, I. Our commission will go up. If we're lowing pricing, our commission will go down commensurate with the winery's earnings. Hmm. And so when [00:07:00] we make proposal to the winery, here's the price that we think it should be. Here's why we already know that we're fully aligned.
Yeah. As opposed to, Hey, we need a lower price on this. Um, we want, we actually want, you know, everyone to be. Fairly compensated all the way through the process, but it also has to be sustainable, not just sustainable in the vineyards that people talk a lot about, but sustainable from a, from an economic perspective.
Um, and that's why after three, five years, wineries, you know, it's a very, um, it's a very clean, beautiful model and I. So far, basically, almost nobody's gone ahead and done this. Um, we're very transparent. Do terra.com. You can take a look at the model. Yeah. But it's a very difficult thing to create today, um, because the margins are lower, so you need to kind of have, it's, it's almost a catch 22 where, um, you can, you can't really get the producers you need without the distribution and you can't really get the distribution.
Without the producers.
Matt Weiss: Yeah. But you have [00:08:00] those longstanding, long relat relationships. We, a long time, we, and, and you worked. So let's color in more of your history. And by the way, we have to talk about your father in a second, so I'm gonna make time for that. But like we said, you went to uc Davis, so you had the wine making shops, then you worked at Ente, a very well-known, um, Chardonnay and Cabernet House in Napa Valley.
Right. Um, and then you got invited to Cadel. Bosco. When you worked at Cadel. Bosco, you think, you said you started out as like a cellar intern or something like that. Mm-hmm. And worked your way up to being the chef, Decoff meaning the main dude. And while you were there. Not only did you work in Italy, learn in Italy, but the head chef AV was the, what is it?
Second, third generation Chef Duca of Dom Perignon, arguably the most famous champagne house in the world,
Brian Larky: both he and his father before him. It was, it was just a rare opportunity. Maiz was an also gave me every opportunity, um, and it was an amazing [00:09:00] existence. It was basically the time that the world was looking at Italy.
Not just as red and white tablecloths and spaghetti, but as you know, a whole nother genre that began to grow. So Italy was growing in the eyes of the world. America was falling in love with Italy. Yeah. With Italian food, with Italian fashion, with Italian eyeglasses and the shoes and the special lighting.
Everyone loved Italy. Yeah. And we were there. I was there at that exact kind of transition moment. Um, beginning in 85 when things really began to blossom and the wine making the attention to detail and the fact that the Chef Duka from Do Perignon was at Casco, was an extraordinary experience and got to overlap with Ms.
Dubois. Um, and then, and then he retired back to, and I had an opportunity to continue and a gentleman who was working with me at the time, Stefano Capelli, is still there today. Consistency, excellence. It was just, it doesn't, it doesn't really get better than that. And it lined me up for both Italy from a production [00:10:00] point, but also it was a great.
Introductory point for meeting like-minded, similar quality of states throughout Italy. You know, it's a small group and you get introductions like that. You meet people over years and many of these relationships are still relationships that continue today.
Matt Weiss: Very evident. Um, the other thing, Italians love, they love their coffee.
I do have their coffee, so I want to take a moment 'cause I'm gonna give you a gift. I know you have a flight to catch. I'm gonna give you some coffee. This is called the Tastemaker series. This is from a local roastery called Carbo Coffee Roasters. They have, check this out, Brian. They have two of the 100 cups that exist in the world.
Cups are the equivalent to a sommelier, but like right. There's only 100 in the world. They have two right here in Carbo. And we got together and um, I picked out this single origin coffee from Peru from a farmer named Edith Messa, who, um, does this original natural process of her coffee. It's a pacamara blend Cultivar.
[00:11:00] So I'm gonna give you this and then you're gonna bring it back to your hometown and enjoy it.
Brian Larky: I think this is gonna be official Coffee of the Vatican with the American new Peruvian. Well, it's Peruvian, I mean spent Oh, that's right. Spent 20 years in Peru. So this will be a wonderful very timely for today's news.
Matt Weiss: I should have let you do this that way, but I'm beautiful. It's incredible. Yeah. I appreciate that. Um, absolutely. Enjoy it. So the, what I, what I think is not only. You know, sometimes yes, it's right place, right time, but it's obviously and, and sometimes it's lucky. But you clearly worked hard, worked your way up, had this, had this knack for um, really getting the tone of the people and, and immersing yourself in that.
And I have to imagine, maybe I'm wrong, but your father has had a big impact on you. So he basically invented the color television. Is that right? Oh, you bought
Brian Larky: that? Yeah. We, we tell people that.
Matt Weiss: Okay. It just gets their attention. I bought a hook, line and sinker. Yeah, you did.
Brian Larky: You swallowed that whole thing.
Um, no, dad, dad was an amazing engineer. He [00:12:00] passed away a few years ago. Um, and just I. A man at the right place at the right time who had the vision. He said, why, why can't we do this in color? And he graduated. He was outta Princeton and moved on to RCA and different opportunities, worked in Europe, came back and began to figure out how to transmit color.
So the color bars, I. That's his, he's got 13 patents just for color television. So I don't really need to work anymore. It's just something I really enjoy doing now, um, you know, when you do that, all the intellectual properties owned by the, the company that, that you designed that for, in this case? Sure. It was RCA, but it was a, an amazing experience to grew up with that.
And as you know, we had black and white TV into, well into the seventies because into the eighties almost because. It's like the, the shoemaker's kids have no shoes. Yeah. So, yeah.
Matt Weiss: They couldn't even give you RCA couldn't give you a fricking colored television man. Yeah. It, his
Brian Larky: dad was always tinkering on stuff.
Yeah. Always tinkering on stuff.
Matt Weiss: Oh. I'm not sure exactly how that relates to wine, but I think maybe in It's the innovative spirit. Right. Exactly. The innovative, it's the innovative spirit, the, the creativity. Um. [00:13:00] Let's bring it full circle to today. So you, or you moved back in 1990, you started Della Terra.
What do you think? And by the way, the other thing, and you can see some of these soldiers of, of your wineries all, all along here that that, that grace your portfolio, you're. I'll also give you a shout out because the people who work for you at Della Terra or who are in your organization are super knowledgeable.
They're good people and friendly, and really intimately knowledgeable about your product. So that also is helps. How did you go about. When you were starting out selecting the wine, the wineries that you decided to bring into the portfolio,
Brian Larky: I mean, everything, whether it's from the producer side or from the dollar terra organizational side, comes down to one word and, and, and for us that word is culture.
Yeah. So what kind of a mindset, what kind of culture, what are we building and creating on our own, literally from scratch? And what are we inheriting inheriting in terms of the culture? Of the families that we work with. 'cause these [00:14:00] are, these are families and each one has a history. We're not here to bend them and shift them.
We're just here to adopt them and understand them. Um, and so, but it really comes down to like-minded cultural mindsets basically. And so for the wineries, what we're looking for is that these wineries are considered by their peers to be some of the best producers in a, in a given region. And it's a bespoke.
Collection, let's say of of similar similar quality oriented estates, and it's important to, to us that these estates, um. Have a legacy that these estates have a, have a kind of a, a, a map forward in terms of the type of wines that they're producing. Yeah. Um, and we're not arrogant. Say they're the best.
They're not the best. They're among some of the best. And the people that we work for in some cases are 3, 4, 5 generations. I mean, some of these things go way, way, way, way back. And some are, some are new. So I'm are first generation, [00:15:00] but each one tells an important story. Um, as we're piecing together this patchwork that together is, is Italy.
Matt Weiss: What do you think that if you are giving somebody an elevator pitch on Della Terra, I. I know you, you know, it's like you can't choose between your children, but like what wines would you go to as an exemplary part of the portfolio?
Brian Larky: You're right. I'm not gonna start picking out kids. That doesn't happen.
We love all of our babies. Um, and every baby is there for a reason.
Matt Weiss: Yeah.
Brian Larky: Um, but in terms of what we're looking for, we're looking for is states, um, that not only, not necessarily have the longest history. But have the longest trajectory forward. We're looking for producers that have, um, a generational plan and a just a generational identity and pathway where, you know, everything's in transition.
The weather's in transition, I. The market is certainly in transition today Sure is, especially for imports. And so what kind of a mindset is gonna be able to handle [00:16:00] all these different things that are going on and continue to make wise decisions, um, that are gonna keep these wineries where they are. Um, and at the same time, just like dollar Terra, um, that, that are going to change.
And I think the word here would probably be evolution. They need to evolve both for the weather, both for the climate. Everything's changing. . And as well as for the marketplace, how do we all stay relevant moving forward? And we don't currently have wineries from every region in Italy. We'll probably eventually be able to, you know, plug in some of those gaps.
, But for the most part, we're looking for like-minded individuals. I. They have a vision.
Matt Weiss: Okay. What was the first winery that you, the
Brian Larky: first winery that really got me off off the ground was Cado. Bosco. Okay. Um, and it was their idea. They said, you know, if, if we're gonna change, would you, would you work with us?
And then we'll build a portfolio. The second most important winery, um, that is still with us today, is the Alois Gator Winery. Mm-hmm. Um, and that winery is really the one that, that helped launch. In terms [00:17:00] of not just the solidity and the number of bottles. 'cause we, I mean, we built up quite a bit since, since 35 years ago, but it was the.
The reputation of the estate and the attention to detail. Um, and Aloise himself is a very, is a, is a man of, of precision and a man of principles. Those two P words. Yeah. Um, and I think other wineries looked at that and said, wow, I. If, if, if that's if he's in your portfolio, it says a lot about you.
Yeah. Um, Mark Casey DeGray. Marco Feluga later. Roberto Feluga now, um, his his daughter Eli Feluga, who,
Matt Weiss: who will be on a future episode. She,
Brian Larky: she would be an amazing, if you can get her in studio, she would be amazing.
Matt Weiss: I'm gonna try
Brian Larky: you do that. Um, so those are some of the, some of the early.
Matt Weiss: Yeah. And lator.
So let's dive into that. 'cause you know, if you don't know, it's a really important winery to talk, talk about. They are one of the flagship wineries of Alto je, um, and making beautiful Pinot Grigio. They're [00:18:00] making, um, pinot noir and Schiava, which. I think as we get into this, um, on last, last episode, Dan Petrosky, who studied in freely and made wine there was talking about the new trend of tillable reds.
So you talk about skiva for a guy
Brian Larky: who only makes whites for a guy
Matt Weiss: who only makes whites. Yeah. You talk about, I mean, everybody's got their iron ironies. Um. He, but, but Sava I think is one of those varietals that people sleep on that nobody or know. It's kind of like a thin skin varietal, like pinot noir similar to that cool climate.
Not big tannin, but juicy tillable red. I highly recommend getting your hands on some Indeed.
Brian Larky: We've gotten more of our, it's, it's, they're not really roses, but like bar could be Chi Jolo. Yeah. Called C-H-I-L-L, like Chi Jolo. But it's, it's actually from the word chi. Meaning meaning cherries. But yeah, more and more wineries are looking for cooler [00:19:00] less alcoholic, um, easier wines for, or wines for everyday drinking.
Lemme put it that way.
Matt Weiss: I, I, I think that's on the pulse of it. Um, so we do have all of this changes going on with mm-hmm. The business with looming tariffs and, and these things. How does. Della Terra adjust and still be relevant and still make their margins in the, in this ch ever changing world.
Well, I,
Brian Larky: I don't even think that terrorists are looming. I think they're here. They're here. Yeah. And we, we haven't yet, but seen them. They could change, right? We don't know. They could change. Um, so this is, this is being shot in early May, and the, the wines haven't really hit the market yet. And most important is work with 60 to 90 days worth of inventory.
So the tariff part hasn't really hit yet. The, the future for, with this administration appears to be that these very well may be in place. We're gonna assume that they're gonna be in place. Um, we don't think that we and other European producers are gonna be able to hold our breath [00:20:00] for another, you know, for two years to get through this.
So prices will be going up, um, based on tariffs, and also there's been an exchange rate. Um, changed since the new administration took over. So, you know, our, our European partners, they are our partners. Um, they're losing a little bit for for the exchange rate, maybe 6% today. And then we have a, a 10% tariff that's tacked onto that.
So the 10% looks like it will continue. We're assuming it will. Maybe it goes up, maybe it doesn't. But all we can do is kind of, until it shifts and, and, and run with that. So I think for Americans, for those of you who are interested and continue to drink European wines, um, prices will be going up and we're already seeing that in some markets.
Um, and I think by the time July and August roll around, we'll be well into those, some of those price changes, and that's, at least in this case, that's part of the part of the cost of doing business.
Matt Weiss: Yeah. It's silver lining is we've been there before, right? This [00:21:00] happened. This also happened in 2016, and actually there was 20% at that point, and we found a way to mitigate.
Um, soci Wine Drinking Society as a whole adjusted. Mm-hmm. And so now we have somewhat of, at least I, I'm thinking this of a roadmap to how to deal with this and how to deal with our distri, how you deal with your distribution partners and your winery partners and try to keep everybody happy.
Brian Larky: Yeah. I mean, I think that the, the approach, the, the feeling this, this, this lap around is a little bit different than it was earlier.
Um, I think folks. Assume that this is going to probably continue for a while. They're not gonna be able, I think, to, to hold pricing initially. And, and this also affects all of Europe. Before it was more segmented into the countries that were affected in types of wines that were affected versus or not.
This is just a blanket tar across the entire continent. Not just wines, but EW products in general. So, you know, whether it's your, your, your shirt from the u or your shoes, or your glasses from Italy or whatever it happens to be, everything's gonna go up. And I [00:22:00] think Americans just gonna see that. And a rising tide lifts all ships.
And I think that this tide is gonna lift all prices for for the, for, you know, at least a foreseeable future. Yeah. And we are not gonna make a dime more out of this. Prices are gonna up. You know, folks like us, the importers, et cetera, um, distributors, um, you know, we're still working on the same exact margins.
Yeah. And then the tariff is tacked up on top of that. It is what it is and I think folks will decide to, you know, buy into it, pay a little bit more for, for what they enjoy.
Matt Weiss: Obviously the scarce, the, the scary part is, well, because the higher prices do, people start buying less and then you make less commission.
So for your part that that's scary. But that hadn't
Brian Larky: really dawned on me. Thank you for bringing that up and, and so much for my weekend, but no, you're actually, yeah. Sorry for your well, you're, you're absolutely right. It, and we'll, we'll see how that, how that shakes out. Yeah.
Matt Weiss: By the way, you keep bringing up Italian glasses.
Are these Italian glasses that eyeglasses that I'm wearing?
Joe Woolworth: I don't think so. [00:23:00]
Matt Weiss: You'll find it out. It just looks sharp. Last question that I'm gonna get you outta here, what do you think? How do you translate the knowledge that you have, these personal relationships, um, the knowledgeable staff you have to people that are the gatekeepers that we say in the wine business, right?
The, the, the heady wine shops, the sommelier who are running, you know, major wine programs or beverage directors. How, how did you get that? Kind of, because there's an aura. A connotation. If you're buying Della Terra wines, you know that they're coming from really good estates that are one of the most important wineries, as you said, of their regions.
How do you convey that?
Brian Larky: It takes time. Just like when, if you got a brand new winery, how long until you're considered one of the. One of the best. It takes a long time. It takes repetitive messaging, it takes repetitive performance year after year. So 35 years is enough time for for us to kinda get that message across.
In addition, you mentioned earlier today the tour that we're doing, that we're doing a week long tour in the states. [00:24:00] Yeah. We spend a lot of time bringing our producers to the United States. We spend a lot of time dealing with the gatekeepers, dealing with the people that kind of have their hands on the valve that are opening and closing these pipelines, bringing bottles into the United States.
A lot of wine today is personal. I. It's a personal journey. It's a personal story. It's a personal connection. Um, it's not the most efficient way. It's funny, you know, on some side they're saying, oh, we're organic, we're biodynamic, we're very concerned for the environment, but we're all getting on airplanes.
We're flying all over the place. Um, and says the pilot. Says the pilot, yeah. We're flying all over the place to share the message. To to, to tell the story. Yeah. Um, to spread the word. And at the same time, we're bringing Americans to Italy. So bringing our producers here, we bring some, some of the, the, the, the key decision makers back to Italy.
Um, and it's really a matter of literally crossing the Atlantic, meeting the people, pressing the flesh, hearing the stories, tasting the wine in situ, having someone explain to you their story. Why are these wines different? Um, what's the story of your family? How did this evolve? How did this begin? We all wanna have a sense of [00:25:00] connection and I think that our producers are some of the best at sharing these, these connections and having some wines that are visceral in the way that people just, they're recognizable.
They speak specifically of their region, but they're also approachable from a national perspective in the United States, they're ones that cross over across, across cultural boundaries. Um, and that's really what a lot of this is. It's this quid pro quo, this exchange of ideas and flavors and foods.
We've got so many Italian restaurants and food in the United States. That's another way that we're able to bring this across. Wine shops are key, but what kind of foods do the, do these go with? And who are the people that are, that are, are individual, um, agents, the individual, , folks that are sharing these ideas and introducing people to them.
And we have that across the United States in terms of, you know, our, our clients and our customer base. And everybody loves Italy. Every wants to go over there, but they fall in love with [00:26:00] something. They bring it back home and they're able to share that. Um, and it's a real treat for us to work with so many talented families that are committed generation after generation.
To continue to build and grow what they do and be innovators and leaders, um, in their own individual region as well as wine, growing as a whole globally. Yeah, it's a privilege.
Matt Weiss: That was inspirational. What you're doing is amazing. Thank you for changing the model or. Having your innovative take on the, on the wine model and bringing these great wines to the us.
So, um, Brian, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for bringing a part of Italy to North Carolina and the u and this US tour. By the way, I need to get out to Italy and press the flesh, so you let me know when my bravo, where my ticket is. Bravo. And I will say for all of you out there, we have to
Brian Larky: change this to
Matt Weiss: vino centric vino.
Yes. For this one, right Joe? Our producer would do that. Um, so for all of you out there when you're in your local wine shop, 'cause you're all shopping in your local wine shops, look on the back of the bottle, [00:27:00] see Della Terra on that. You know you will drink deliciously. Much appreciated.