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Season 2 of “Stop & Talk” has arrived! This season, dive deep into the themes of purpose and opportunity, guided by the insights of leaders in the arts and culture, sports, philanthropy, finance, and innovation fields. Together, we'll celebrate local achievements and envision what's possible in San Diego County. Let's converse and inspire one another.
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page:Hi, Grant. How are you?
Grant Oliphant:I am great. We're gonna be talking today to Thelma DeCastro, who is a member of San Diego's arts community.
Crystal Page:Oh, I think I've heard of her. Is she part of Far South Border North?
Grant Oliphant:She is exactly far part part of Far South Border North. It's a very hard project to pronounce, but it's a great project in terms of bringing artists forward in the community to express what they're seeing, living, and feeling about San Diego, and I love these conversations, and I particularly love the conversation that we have with Thelma.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I'm excited to hear what you what you choose to explore with her. Is there anything we should be looking for as we jump into this episode?
Grant Oliphant:Well, you know, she's a Filipino artist who's based in San Diego. She grew up, as part of her Filipina community in, Paradise Hills.
Crystal Page:Oh, that's where Dan's from.
Grant Oliphant:Yes. Yes. Our board chair. And she's just been a lively part of the arts community in terms of being present and doing art, and but also at the same time being a teacher. So I think what I would listen for in this interview is, you know, what are the themes that come out in, from her perspective as we talk about the process of doing art in San Diego.
Grant Oliphant:I think people are gonna love it.
Crystal Page:I cannot wait. I look forward to catching you on the other side of this one.
Crystal Page:I imagine it's gonna be a really vibrant and rich conversation.
Grant Oliphant:I think so. And by the way, I think as people think about what to focus on, focusing on not just the San Diego angle, but what it's like to appreciate the arts in America in this moment, also valuable. And I think no matter where you are, if you have any connection with community and the arts, you're gonna love this conversation.
Crystal Page:I can't wait. Shall we dive in?
Grant Oliphant:Let's do it. Thelma Virata de Castro, thank you so much for being with us.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Thank you for having me. This is very exciting.
Grant Oliphant:One of the ways we got to know you is through- you're an artist and your participation in the Far South Border North project, and we'll be talking more about that later. But I I just wanna say that one of the joys of funding that program has been the artists that we've gotten to meet through it and the artistry that we've gotten to see, so I really appreciate your being here to to share with us.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Thank you. Just an added benefit of being part of that program was meeting the other artists and getting to learn about their work too, so I'm fangirling over their work.
Grant Oliphant:Well, you know, I think one of the things that people forget about San Diego is we're actually blessed to have an amazing individual artist community, and anything we can do to help elevate the profile of it, we're delighted to do, and I think this is part of it. My very first question to you was going to be about, what your experience growing up in San Diego was like in terms of shaping your wanting to be an artist and your, you know, your creative pursuits. But you just happened to mention right before we went on air that, that you had something in common with Dan Yates, who was on a previous episode talking about growing up in San Diego, and you mentioned well, I'm gonna let you say what you had in common because I think that's just so interesting.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Is a point where I tell everyone to listen to that episode, reference to that episode because his experience was very different from mine. He said he identifies as a Caucasian man, and I'm a Filipinx woman. And growing up in Paradise Hills, I felt so comfortable. It was a diverse community, but my main community was other Filipino, immigrant families.
Grant Oliphant:Right. Right.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And the stereotype is your dad's in the navy and your mom is a nurse, and that was true for a lot of us. And it just felt very comfortable. And I went to school at, Perry Elementary. I just walked to school, and it's in the middle of navy housing.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So we were just surrounded by this navy community. We went to the little, p x. We went to the commissary. That was just our lifestyle being connected to the navy in that way. So I felt like it was a very tight community.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And I went to Bell Junior High, which is also in the area, and then I went to Morse High School. And I was a nerd. I was in the nerd community. So I felt protected in that way. And but I didn't even realize that I needed protection.
Thelma Virata de Castro:But this is going to sound very naive, but we were so, separated in the, like, slash gifted smart kid program, that I read in the newspaper that there were gangs at Morse High School, and that is how I learned that.
Grant Oliphant:Experience, but you both grew up in Paradise Hills, and you both went to Morse High School, and how did how did growing up in that environment help shape your wanting to be an artist?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, I was very connected to the Filipino community. I had mentioned before how I'm a direction follower when I got here, and the word they used to use is schoolgirl.
Thelma Virata de Castro:SO I was really into school, and so I did my assignments. And in, San Diego Unified, there were many opportunities to be a creative person. There were contests to enter, and I remember submitting work for just a little school publication and getting published in it. Just opportunities like that can really light someone up. And I'd like that to continue for the whole community. You know, we all have our 9 to 5. Well, not all of us, but many of us have these 9 to 5 jobs and our daily existence. And we don't take time to be creative. We're not rewarded for being creative, but we have this little itch inside of us, and I would just love for more people to be able to be in touch with that.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Yeah. Before we leave the the subject of of Dan's interview, You also described that interview as touching and connecting with your most recent play, and I would love for you to share a little bit about that, because then we're gonna talk about playwriting, and and your art form and and what drives and motivates it. But maybe a good place to start is one where you have strong feelings about it.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I am a strange artist in that the name of my project was Cultivating Joy.
Grant Oliphant:Yes.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And so what I chose to focus on for the play I was writing as part of this project was to go the opposite direction as much as I could.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And so what I chose was I thought, you know, what is the biggest or one of the biggest grief experiences that humans can experience?
Thelma Virata de Castro:And the subject I chose was, when someone loses a child. And I was asked that at one of the talk backs after the play. They said, why did you choose that? And, that's what I what I shared, and I I learned that it resonated with people in the community who had experienced that.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. And that's obviously what resonated for you in the interview with Dan Yates.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yes. We had that experience at my son's high school. Where a student, lost his life due to suicide, and I'm just talking with his relatives and noting from other people who have lost their children just their different experiences and different support from the community.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And so it's really important to be able to talk about grief, to talk about loss, because, like as Dan noted, we all experience it.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. So how do you as an artist think about exploring a very difficult theme like that? When you go into it, I think a lot of people, maybe especially in the context of a title like Cultivating Joy, might say, you know, that's too hard. That's too- how how do you as an artist think about getting into that very difficult territory, and what makes you want to go there?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, the title of the play was where we lay our sorrows down, and it's like, woah. This is gonna be such a draw. I wanna see this play about grief. And like I said, I'm somewhat of a strange artist. Fortunately, I worked with people who were willing to go there with me for the vision, but we had puppets in the play.
Thelma Virata de Castro:A play about grief with puppets. And I worked with Asian Story Theater, so we centered the play around an Asian family, which was very relatable for the communities where the performances were, and I use a lot of humor. Skipping subjects, I also am a teaching artist And I was just at Las Colinas last night for a performance of, the women's plays that they had written in a residency. I work with the Old Globe as a teaching artist for their community voices program, and they had some really funny jokes about their experience in jail. So humor is a way to acknowledge these things, these tough things. It just makes us human. It builds a bridge to putting it on the table.
Grant Oliphant:You, you mentioned, and, being FilipinX and growing up in a so did was there anything cultural in your that informed how you think about tackling subjects like this?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, I think a lot of it has to do with I'm the youngest child in my family.
Grant Oliphant:So it's okay. Yeah.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And I feel like my parents were tired by the time they got to me. They were like the usual stressed out parents. I'm not gonna throw my sisters under the bus, but, you know, they
Grant Oliphant:But now's your opportunity.
Thelma Virata de Castro:They got to experience being parents to teenage girls before I came along, right? So, I had a lot of freedom, and I got to do a lot of what I wanted to do. So, we weren't what people might stereotype as a Filipino family where there's a lot of repression, although, you know, different members of my family have different impressions. But I just felt I could do what I wanted to do, express what I want to express, and have my family there to back me up. Mhmm. I think that's a contract within some families, just this support.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Do you do you think, though, that, that aside from being the youngest, the be the cultural component being in the Philippine community was important as part of thinking about your your themes and your artistry today?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Absolutely. I had another project about domestic violence in the Filipino American community that was called the Fire in Me. Again, I worked with Asian Story Theater for that, and we got support from the San Diego Foundation through a creative catalyst grant, and we used lumpia to comfort people. We had food there. Like, this was a party.
Thelma Virata de Castro:We had Pandesal, and now let's watch this play about domestic violence. Woo hoo. Like, I interviewed people within the community. I worked with a lawyer named Anne Bautista who worked with Access Inc, and she, advocated for these women. And so we use the culture to make it familiar, but also to push a little bit to talk about these tough subjects.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Because, yes, it does happen in every community, including ours.
Grant Oliphant:I am I am struck, and we're early in this interview, but I am struck by how fearless you are in tackling tough issues, and you and you do it, clearly with a kind of joy in your own, you know, at least in your in your consideration of it. We have thought a lot as a foundation about the role of the arts in promoting healing, and we actually think that it's really important for that. Given your exploration of really challenging subjects, like we've already talked about grief, and we've talked about domestic violence. How do you see art as contributing to healing?
Thelma Virata de Castro:I think healing is just what why we live. I feel kind of bad that I've had children in a way because
Grant Oliphant:Say more. Say more.
Thelma Virata de Castro:This world is really tough, especially with climate change. I just wanna apologize. Like, wow. Because, part of the Cultivating Joy project was connecting with nature as a healing force.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So in my studies and reading other writers who connect with nature, I've just learned more about the environment. But it's really important to me to have hope. So in my bag right now, I have a set of utensils that I got from the summer reading program through the public San Diego Public Library. And I don't always remember to use them
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Instead of getting the plastic, you know, single use items that they have available at restaurants. But I just have to do what's within my circle. So if I can use items that promote sustainability, that will help.
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Thelma Virata de Castro:If I share that lesson with others, bring your own forks. Bring your containers for, your doggy bags at restaurants. It's just what you can do
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Within your circle. And there's a lot of good going on Yeah. In the communities.
Grant Oliphant:You know, I, I, one of the things that I think is challenging for artists who tackle big issues is the temptation yielding to the temptation to become didactic. You know, you you you begin to concentrate so much on the message, that, you know, the social message that you wanna convey, that you forget that real people are on the receiving end and they and the message won't connect with them if it's received in that way. How do you think about connecting these very big issues that you're carrying around in your head with the importance of of connecting with your audience in a way where they can receive it?
Thelma Virata de Castro:I love it because that's what artists do. We live in metaphor. We see metaphor. In the play I wrote Where We Lay Our Sorrows Down, the woman who has lost both her mother and her son, she goes to clear out her garden. And this is where the puppets come in.
Thelma Virata de Castro:A lizard who she's afraid of lizards, but the lizard is like represents her son. Something she doesn't understand, something that frightens her, but something that she's, you know, come to love. So we have a lizard puppet, and the lizard puppet is being, manipulated by the son, who we find out is really a ghost. Ghost might not be the right word, but a spirit. So the lizard is something that represents her grief.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And it's not like we're saying, in order to overcome your grief, you must do this or that, but we're showing things, and people understand it at a different level. Because many times people have mentioned, like, in our cultures, like, the Filipino culture, in the, Latinx cultures, when somebody dies, you're often visited by their spirits in the form of these little animals, these little creatures. Like, when my mom passed away, her sister also passed away in the same month. And in the Philippines, they saw, some white moths, and it they were there. The sisters were there.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. So I think that element was in my play, and so we looked to nature. I nature's here. Like, we, as humans, we think we're the ones running the show, but we're equals.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I don't even know if that's the right relationship, but nature was here first, I think.
Grant Oliphant:Well, we're part of it, and we forget that. Well, I love that. I really appreciate that answer because I think what you pointed to is, you know, and the lizard is a great maybe a great symbol of this. It's you've pointed to sort of the presence of magic and mysticism and metaphor as a way of telling the story, as opposed to, yes, lecturing people, which is and so the the role of the artist that you're articulating is to is to deliver that, that magic and the mysticism and the metaphor so people can hear the story, which is a beautiful, beautiful answer.
Grant Oliphant:You mentioned your kids. Do they are they artists? Are they old enough to be artists?
Thelma Virata de Castro:I have a 16 year old and a 20 year old, and they're both boys. So, again, it is just amazing to me what you learn as a parent. You come in you have these expectations. First of all, I was supposed to have girls, not boys.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And now I'm doing things I never ever ever thought I would do. I'm watching my child play football. I still don't know what his position is exactly and the rules. And my other son got a brand new truck, which he loves. Well, it's not new, but new for him.
Thelma Virata de Castro:He loves it, and he expects me to love it. So I'd I just flabbergasted that I have to express my admiration for a truck.
Grant Oliphant:Life is humbling, isn't it?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yes. But then, you know, I'm open. Like, okay. There is this truck culture.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Here we go. Let's get into this. Like, why? Who are the people who are so into their trucks? I drive a Prius. But what's the beauty of a truck? And what does it mean if you drive a truck? And what's a stereotype? And, like, what is that about?
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm. So you've been learning through your children.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yes. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:Which happens for all of us, by the way.
Thelma Virata de Castro:They have different interests, but I'm learning from them. But I also keep an open mind because my youngest son, he goes with me to plays, and I I thought it was over when they were born. Like, okay, I won't have a theater buddy. Because even my husband, he won't go with me to plays. It's not their thing. But my youngest son has become his own little theater critic.
Grant Oliphant:Oh, that's great.
Thelma Virata de Castro:He's my buddy.
Grant Oliphant:I love that you deal with that as you're a playwright. That's it's so, it's it's so interesting. There are, many projects I could ask you about. One I did wanna ask a couple I wanna ask you about, though, one is your workshopping, a play right now called Never Be Poor, which sounds like sound and very difficult advice sometimes. So can you talk a little bit about this play?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yes. I'm making faces because it is time for me to get serious about this. I need to contact some people to work on it. So I have a grant from the William Male Foundation, and they are so supportive of San Diego artists. There are not many grants out there that are specifically for San Diego artists, and they provide funding for a project of your choice.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Many grants, expect you to fulfill a certain need, and this is an open ended grant that, like, you make your proposal, but there are a wide variety of projects that they funded. And so I asked them to fund a workshop of my play, which only has about 20 pages right now, so I need to get on it. The title came from my dad.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:He was telling me stories about growing up in the Philippines, and it's so heartbreaking how, the economy really drove his choices.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And he talks about being hungry. You know? Mhmm. Here I am, this little brat at Paradise Hills, in Paradise Hills, going to school, thinking I'm the queen of the world, and I came from this man, who has, you know, experienced such hardship growing up, and that's why he came here, for this opportunity. But at the end of his telling his stories, you know, his moral was never be poor.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So that struck me, and that's the title of this play. It's about a Filipino family, and it's about navigating what your family owes you. There are certain obligations that we have as family members, and how far does that go, and when can it stop? Like, when is it beyond what is reasonable when it's, like, not good for you to do this?
Thelma Virata de Castro:So, for example, in the play, there are 2 elders. They are brothers, and one of them has, committed a crime in the Philippines. So the play moves back and forth in time. So this is in the forties, and, the other brother becomes, like, an indentured servant to the mayor to pay off that debt, so the other brother won't go to jail. So that relationship is mirrored in the present with a young oceanographer who depends on her cousin a lot to rescue her.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So I'm exploring what obligations we have to each other.
Grant Oliphant:I love that. It is a that's a question that's going to resonate for a lot of people and a lot of families.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And getting back to trucks?
Grant Oliphant:Okay. That is the best segue we've ever had on this program. Yes. Okay. Getting back to trucks.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Here's a, yeah, a weird connection. Those elders are watching the present day action from their auto body shop in the sky
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:From which is, you know, the version of the afterlife. I live on a narrow street, and our cars have been hit quite a bit. So I've gotten to learn about, repairing cars, and I've gotten some quotes from these people working in the auto body industry, which I'm gonna put in the play. Like, for example, I was asking how people should drive. Should you drive defensively?
Thelma Virata de Castro:And one auto body shop manager said, no. You should okay. Nobody listen to me as this is not driving advice. This is, like, a metaphor. Okay?
Thelma Virata de Castro:He advised, you need to drive aggressively so you're in control. He- this is not scientific.
Grant Oliphant:Right.
Thelma Virata de Castro:This was just, like, his philosophy. But for the characters, you know, I can certainly use that
Crystal Page:Right.
Thelma Virata de Castro:In my play.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And an recently, an auto body shop person said to me, a car is not meant to be put together back again. When they're built, they're just built for that one time. They're not built expecting, oh, your car's gonna get bashed in, and we're gonna need to replace this side. And so that's another, little piece that I'm gonna work in. Like, heck, as humans, how can we live that way?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Like, you experience a hardship, and you can't be put together again. Right. I don't know about you, but I like to put things together with duct tape. I reuse. I try to hold on to things as long as possible, so that's gonna work itself into the play too.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. That sounds like one of those concepts that or or quotes. You have to find a place for it's very bad news for trucks, worse worse news for humans when applied to us. So powerful, powerful. You find inspiration everywhere.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I do. It's like that's why I can't get things done sometimes, because I'm just busy thinking about things.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Yeah. I, it's interesting to hear you talk about your process because another thing that you do is lead the room to write sessions with San Diego Writers Inc, at the Valencia Park Malcolm X Library. I'm curious what inspired you to take on that role on top of everything else, and what sort of insights you provide people through that program?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, with the Cultivating Joy program, I didn't want it to be a one and done. We're having writing free writing workshops in the community, and they're done. Goodbye, and good luck. That is why I partnered with San Diego Writers Ink, because Kristen Fogel came to our final writing sessions, and she attended the readings. So we were able to say, okay, writers.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Here's a great resource for you. Those of you writing poetry, here are classes you can take. Those of you writing memoir, here's a festival you can attend. So San Diego Writers Ink is a great resource for the writers in our community. And this room to write program is a way for the writers who met during the cultivating joy writing workshops to be able to get together again.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I also believe in sustainability for myself. Mhmm. I do a lot of volunteer work for programs I've been involved in, and I know, like, I should only take on what I can handle. So this program, it meets once a month, and it's starting in August.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And I'm going to ask for volunteers to, show up and facilitate when I can't. Because it's not just about me. This isn't just my program. It's our program.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So we're writers just supporting each other.
Grant Oliphant:You're making it about community.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:I love that.
Grant Oliphant:You have modeled here something that is true about your work generally, which is that humor is a really important part of it, and I'm curious how you use humor, how you think about humor in your playwriting or in your your artistry generally, and and then how you use it as a teaching tool.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I love humor because it allows you to say things you wouldn't normally say. It just it makes it easier when for for tough things to be said if you make it a little funny and if you allow for that break so that we can laugh about it. Like yesterday at Las Colinas, I made a mistake with the title of our show. And so I just said, okay. I messed up already and I just got up and I had take 2 again.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And so that gave everyone else permission. Like, you don't have to be perfect. Let's just do it the way we want to and enjoy ourselves.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. And I'm not that great of a joke teller either.
Thelma Virata de Castro:It's just that
Grant Oliphant:But you don't have to.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. It's more just of a a situation situational thing I do.
Grant Oliphant:Well, you mentioned earlier that you, you actually used humor to get into these difficult subjects that you have written about too. And I'm I'm curious which is harder to do as a writer. Is it harder for you to write humor, or harder for you to write difficult emotion?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Oh, I have to be honest, and I can't remember exactly oh, yes. I remember now. I took a workshop. It was at children's for children's writing. And my colleague was Charlene Allen.
Thelma Virata de Castro:It was a San Diego Writers Ink class. And she said, okay. What's your strength? And then she also took that and said, are there times when you use your strength as a crutch? And so humor is a strength I have, and it's also my crutch.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So there are times in real life where I ought to be a little more serious, not make a joke? And also in my writing too. Like, okay.
Thelma Virata de Castro:That's enough funny stuff. Let's say something that's that's not that's more serious.
Grant Oliphant:I think that is, I love that you have that self awareness, and I appreciate that you share that. I I think all of us have strengths that we overuse, and and we've fallen because they work for us, right, just like as you just said. And I can see how it's important to find balance in the work that you're doing. You know, your inner dialogue must be fascinating as you go as you go through putting a work together.
Grant Oliphant:One of the things that is very apparent from your work, is that you you really focus on deep listening.
Grant Oliphant:I mean, to capture the voices that you do, the experience that you do, the way you, and and I think to write plays well, this is sort of a a basic rule. You have to be able to listen and appreciate and understand the community you're describing, the the characters that you're describing. How do you go about that kind of deep listening work, or does it just come naturally to you? Are you writing what you've heard and that's and it just pours out on the page?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Thank you. I think that's a a really big compliment to be a deep listener, and I have been more conscious about relating to place. So I guess I'm going to expand it from deep listening to deep noticing.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And you could get really stuck somewhere, which I have, and it's turned into plays and other projects. Like, I've been stuck at the San Diego Estuary for a long time.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And I just I had spent some time there during the pandemic, and I just noticed, just the things around me and especially nature. It's so fun to go into a place where you're not expecting nature and then to discover where it's there, especially with birds, since birds have the freedom to, you know, move from their environment to just be able to identify them and see them in unexpected places is exciting.
Grant Oliphant:How do you teach that to your students? Or do you?
Thelma Virata de Castro:In the cultivating joy workshops, I brought in models of people I admire. Mhmm. And, like, I thought I was using, certain examples, but then I discover other writers.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So my main writers that I cited, were Ross Gay and Adrienne Maree Brown because they're both very involved with relating to the earth and about community. They're both really relatable. And then I expanded because I learned about Rowan White. She's a seed keeper.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So she would write about, seeds and nature. She's a native American. And she also wrote about grief because, she lost her twin brother. And there's just so there are so many great writers out there. And, ironically, social media is a place where you can get closer to writers because, they're able to express themselves through photos that they take and music that they put with their photos.
Thelma Virata de Castro:It's it makes you feel closer to them. So I follow a lot of writers on Instagram.
Grant Oliphant:Wow. I would not have guessed that answer, but that is great, and it makes sense, actually. It it really makes a lot of sense.
Grant Oliphant:You know, when, I feel like I should have asked you this question a while ago, about cultivating joy, but, as you were as you were putting that project together,
Grant Oliphant:what was your big hope for cultivating joy?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, I feel really special as a writer.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I think it's one of the greatest feelings in the world to write what's in your heart and then to have people appreciate it. That is just so lucky to have that experience. And I wanna share that with other people. And it worked because at the readings, I just thought everyone was a genius.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. They were so funny because, like, some of them were really nervous and intimidated to share their work. One participant even started crying on the first day of a workshop when, that person was about to share. And that's just something I need to remember as someone who's pretty confident with their writing and sharing. I'm a theater artist.
Thelma Virata de Castro:If, you know, you say, let's do an improv game, I'm down. Okay. Whatever. But not everyone feels that way. Not everyone has that confidence.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:But they could cultivate it. They could grow that. Mhmm. And so I just want people to be able to express themselves through writing. And I don't think that's a very sexy thing, but it's a powerful thing.
Grant Oliphant:I I wish everybody could see your smile right now as you're as you're saying that, because I, I do think that I I just wanna put a marker in what you're saying that the capacity of a person to be able to express what's in their heart is a joyful thing when they know how to do it, and you're giving them the tools to know how to do it.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Thank you. And the tools are easier than you think, but it's taking that step. Some people, they just don't feel worthy to share. But that's what makes our world, like, exciting and full. I want the people of Southeast San Diego and Paradise Hills, Skyline Hills to be able to share their experience.
Thelma Virata de Castro:It's important.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. I I wanna go back to a question that you, answered a a a few minutes ago. Actually, I wanna go back to your answer because your way of answering about you were talking about being in the estuary for a long period of time, and, your answer conveyed something which I think is true of your work as well that there's sort of the spirituality around nature, that's present. It it's been present in this interview a few times that, you feel deeply connected to nature, at almost a or maybe at a spiritual level. And I'm I'm curious.
Grant Oliphant:Is that something you also try and teach students when you are getting them to notice and be aware of the world? Is that possible to convey? Because there's a kind of deep reverence there that is I'm just wondering if that can be learned.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I think so. And during the pandemic, I got very woo woo.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I had teachers.
Grant Oliphant:You are not alone.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Tanya Prypadniewicz offered a tarot journaling class, which I took.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And I also practice creativity with Sarah Greenman, and she's led me quite a a bit into woo woo. But woo woo is not, it's something that everyone can experience. It doesn't have to be something that only hippies do. It could be part of your everyday life. For example, the moon.
Thelma Virata de Castro:I think it's just seeing things in metaphors. Every month, there is this cycle, and the different stages of the moon represent different parts of that cycle. So that is a metaphor that other people can follow in their writing. You begin a writing project. That's a new moon.
Thelma Virata de Castro:You set your hopes, your expectations, and then the cycle goes around to the full moon where you enjoy the product of your writing. So I used a lot of those nature metaphors in the cultivating joy workshops.
Grant Oliphant:Do you find, I I I love the smile. It's a mischievous smile when you're mentioning woo woo. It's almost though as though you have to apologize for the things that you're exploring. Do you feel you have to? Do you think that because I think so many the reason I ask is I just think so many people have had their eyes open to different ways of seeing, and I think that is part of what an artist does.
Grant Oliphant:And I'm just curious if you if you even you, as an artist, who who has license to explore, the the edges on all kinds of things feel constrained in some way by the reluctance other people have to go there.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Well, I like to play with that Yeah. Because there's that stereotype of what being woo woo is with the tarot cards and making lunar eclipse water. But, also, it's brave to just stop and look at those things. Like, what does that all mean, and why do people make fun of it? So for example, like, let's talk about tattoos.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Mhmm. Mhmm. Tattoos have become more popular. And, like, what did tattoos mean in the past, and what do they mean now? I don't have any tattoos, but I know people who have gotten tattoos, and they're deeply meaningful to them.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So what's great about some of the new freedoms, newer freedoms we have now are people can take things and make them their own. I have a tattoo artist in one of my plays, and he or she, you know, the character can be played by someone of any gender, sketches a tattoo during the play. And sometimes the characters will go and talk to that character, kinda like a confessional. I just like to make connections like that. Tattoo can be a form of art.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Your art can be- it doesn't have to be writing. Okay? I'm just an advocate for writing. But I just love for people to get into their creativity, because I think that's how you live a really full life.
Grant Oliphant:I think that is a beautiful statement, and I and I hope people will will take it to heart. How has your, I'm curious to know how your involvement with other with with organizations in the arts like the Old Globe or, Asian Story Theater or Reason to Survive, how how that has influenced your art as well, because you're not just doing this as an independent. You're working in concert with others, and how important has that been to you as part of an artistic community? I think it's smart. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant:I am one person, and
Thelma Virata de Castro:I have turned to organizations who know what they're doing to help me with my crazy ideas. I'd like to talk about A Reason to Survive Arts, because I don't think we've talked much about them.
Grant Oliphant:Please.
Thelma Virata de Castro:They're an organization based in National City that is a creative youth organization. They have programs during the summer and after school and even some in school programs to develop young artists. So arts is their acronym. They were my hub for my far south border north project, which is like our homeroom, the place that we went to if we needed some guidance or for resources. And when we met there, they gave us a tour of their space, and I walked through their, their work room.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And later on at home, while I was washing the dishes, I realized I could commission them to build puppets and a soundscape for my play. So it is a really beautiful experience because they did it. I wasn't involved with working with the young people who they commissioned, but I conveyed my vision and they fulfilled it. The teaching artists did a brilliant job of expressing what, the responsibility was. So they created, sounds that I laid out for them for that second scene in the garden.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Like, this is like like it it should be reminiscent of a car crash because the young man in my play who passed away died in a car crash, but not, like, blatantly like a car crash. So they took those subtleties into mind, and they built these puppets that the actors used to tell the story in that second scene of the play. So I would love to work with them again in the future. They put the puppets on display for one of their gallery shows. It was so beautiful to see that continue.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Like, oh, those were the puppets in the play. And some of the students who built the puppets and the soundscape, they went to the play, and they got to participate in a talk back as well.
Grant Oliphant:Well, I you know, we could go on. I I could I could do this all day. I don't know if you'd want to, but this is just so fascinating to me, and I I really appreciate the generosity of your sharing. We should talk about far south border north for a moment and what your experience as an artist in that initiative has meant to the work that you're doing. How would you how would you describe that?
Thelma Virata de Castro:I am just very grateful for the opportunity to be part of the far south border north cohort. We were given grant money just to support us.
Thelma Virata de Castro:And then in addition, we got a budget for our projects.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So I felt very well compensated for the work that I was putting into this project because let's not forget that artists are workers. It takes energy and resources, time to put together these campaigns, and I hope that the community benefited. We've turned in our final reports. The surveys have been done.
Thelma Virata de Castro:So I hope it was a very, productive, fruitful experience for everyone. It certainly was for me because I was an artist alongside the people who participated in my writing workshops. My project was my play, and, like, I'm on the same journey with them. Mhmm. And it's continuing now with the room to write, like, okay.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Next project. We had a a saying that I got from Adrienne Maree Brown called, our most elegant next step. Instead of following them with a hammer saying, what's your goal? What are you gonna do by the next class? It was, what is your most elegant next step?
Grant Oliphant:That's beautiful.
Thelma Virata de Castro:It is. I didn't make it up. And then we have the silly acronym. It's men's. What's your men's?
Thelma Virata de Castro:Yeah. And so someone's men's could have been, I'm going to go, write in nature for 5 minutes.
Grant Oliphant:Mhmm.
Thelma Virata de Castro:That's fine. And if you don't do it, then you didn't do it. You know? We're not there to beat ourselves up, beat each other up. Like, you're in charge of your journey, but men's is a very gentle next
Grant Oliphant:step. Well, can I just say how much I appreciate this opportunity to speak with you? And I, this concept of one's most elegant next step is one we can all use in life, by the way, and I think that's a a beautiful takeaway. Thank you so much for the work that you're doing, and for sharing, I think so generously, a perspective about art from the perspective, not of a person who has it all figured out, but a fellow traveler who's still doing the work. That's, I I think, such a great characteristic, and you've been very generous with your sharing today.
Thelma Virata de Castro:Thank you so much, and thank you, Prebys Foundation, for supporting individual artists. And every time I look around, there are, like, nonprofits that I felt, oh, they got a grant from the Prebys Foundation, and they got a grant. So thank you for supporting these organizations in the community who are doing really good work.
Grant Oliphant:Thank you. Well, it's truly our honor. Thank you.
Crystal Page:Wow. Well, thank you so much for that interview, Grant. I think I took a bunch of gems away starting with how she uses humor as a tool to get through things.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. She really does. She embodies one of her projects is called Cultivating Joy and she sort of embodies that. She's very adept at using humor to bring light to subjects that are very heavy. And in her art, she dares to explore subjects that are a little hard, to to think about and to process.
Grant Oliphant:Part of the way she makes that accessible for everybody is through her humor and her ability to laugh.
Crystal Page:Yeah. And, when she was talking with you, what made me laugh is when she talked about interacting with her sons, like that intergenerational, you know, mom, son, not understanding each other. So it seems like there's even a humor in her family relationships.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Well, it just shows that artists are not immune to to the to the to the fact that children wanna be their own people, Right? Exactly. And see the world differently. But I loved her sharing about that.
Grant Oliphant:You know, one of the for me, there were so many powerful themes in this interview. One of them was, just how she views art as a healing force. That through the act of storytelling about very difficult and trying circumstances including grief and loss, we can make those, again, accessible for other people. We can help people process the pain that they're feeling, and and she tries to lift people up through her heart. I found that to be very powerful.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I think, I guess sometimes when I hear and think about healing in the work, it's, the humor is like the Trojan horse to get us to that healing, and so I think it's very giving and heartfelt of her to wanna create that space that's safe enough to go through that healing, but you're also laughing. And and it seems like that would be really good for a community. So I appreciated that part of your conversation with her.
Grant Oliphant:I did too. You know, I was thinking as we were talking about her identity and how she's very much rooted in her Filipino roots and growing up in a Filipino community. And and she tells the story of that community, through her art. And and yet makes it universal. You know this is I think the power of great art is that it's always very specific and flavored with the character of real life and real people and yet the themes that it draws out are real and alive and vibrant for everyone.
Grant Oliphant:So, you know, when she's talking about domestic violence in her community, you know, you could be you could you could view that as distinct to her community but of course it's not. And the way in which she draws that out allows other communities and other people to see themselves in the story. And I I think the power of her art is just how it's rooted in both at the same time.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I think that really resonated with me as well because it seems like it requires that she's, like, noticing and listening to the community, the friends and the family she relays she relates to. Right? But then you're right. That when we step back from that, it's like you can apply to your own life.
Crystal Page:So it's got that universality, but it also has, just nuances. I feel like she's mirroring things that we may not get to experience, because we may or may not be an insider to the same community she's talking about. So I think it also kind of just gives us a window into that empathy and that human connection, you know.
Grant Oliphant:Right. Which, you know, we are we talk about this a lot on this program and in other places. We're in this really difficult cultural moment where there are so many divisions that people talk about and focus on. And I think what Thelma illustrates is the power of art that acknowledges, you know, who I am, where I come from, what my roots are, what my identity is, what my life is about, and and yet opens all of that up for other people so that we can see each other. And I I just think that is so important in the times that we're living in.
Grant Oliphant:Art has always had that power, and it feels when we talk to somebody like Thelma, it's more relevant now than than probably any other time that we've seen.
Crystal Page:Yeah. I think that power what I'm hearing you say is really that bridging of being able to talk about these issues and connect, and we know that's in her work, but we also know it's outside of the work. Right? She's bridging between all the communities and organizations she works with, and so it's kinda the double impact of how she wants to be collaborative in the world. And you're right, we do need more of that in this moment in time.
Grant Oliphant:That was actually I'm so glad you mentioned that because that was something that did really resonate for me, and I was thinking about how, you know so many of us think about artists as solo practitioners. You know, they're they're the lonely genius in the in the attic, writing the great American novel or or doing the great painting. And really in fact for her, of course there is that time. But but so much of her time is also in collaborating with other organizations and bringing people together to to workshop ideas and working with students to help them see the potential in their own work and I, you know I think there is so much about the art itself that is bridging but the act of creating it and being an artistic community is part of that as well.
Crystal Page:Yeah. And I think the lessons even from the process she goes through are applicable whether it's philanthropy or in a school. Right? Every guest we've had this season, it's always about collaboration and even the way we work to to bring these things together. So I think, for me, it's also she's a really good reminder of what we can put into practice every day.
Grant Oliphant:Yeah. Completely agree. So, since we're short on time, give me one takeaway that that you felt really strongly about at the end of this.
Crystal Page:I just felt really strongly in the fact that she decides to stand in her own shoes as a Filipina mom with boys, and she loves art. And she you know, just like this is her identity, but she transcends to connect with other people. I don't know if that makes complete sense. Okay.
Grant Oliphant:It does. And I and it's so grounded and real and that is who she is. So I love that. You know, I I my takeaways were how important, art can be in community healing, not just individual healing. And that's also part of the collaboration and bridging that you were pointing to. And then, maybe something that we started with, just the importance of supporting local artists.
Grant Oliphant:Why does it matter that there is a vibrant arts community in San Diego? Well, it certainly matters in terms of the big shows and the spectacles and the cultural events and institutions that we get to go to. But it also matters in terms of those individual artists who are raising their voice and adding to the rich mix that is creativity in San Diego. We're lucky to have it and I think we should all wanna cultivate it.
Crystal Page:Hear hear. Just a reminder that Thelma was a part of the far south border north collective, an effort that Prebys funded. We're so grateful. They're at the end of their year. But we'll include the link in the notes to make sure that folks have a chance to look at all these collaborative artists, but also artists that we want to be able to afford to stay and live in these communities.
Grant Oliphant:Perfect. Let's end there. Pleasure as always. This is a production of the Prebys Foundation hosted by Grant Oliphant and co hosted by Crystal Page. The program is coproduced by Crystal Page and Adam Greenfield, and it's engineered by Adam Greenfield.
Grant Oliphant:Production assistance is provided by Tess Karesky. And our new theme song is by mister Lyrical Groove, a local San Diego artist. Download episodes at your favorite podcatcher or visit us at stop and talk podcast.org. If you like this show, and we really hope you do, the best way to support it is to share, subscribe, and review our podcast. Thank you for your support, your ideas, and most of all, for listening.
Grant Oliphant:This program has been recorded at The Voice of San Diego Podcast Studio.