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The purpose of the IT Leaders Council is to bring together IT Directors and Managers for leadership training, educational content from guest speakers, and peer discussions in a vendor-free, collaborative environment. IT Leaders Councils are currently offered in Indianapolis, IN and Columbus, OH, with more cities coming soon!
00:00:00:10 - 00:00:18:19
Unknown
Good morning, everyone. My name is Jennifer Ruth Green, and it's an honor to be here today. The short version about why I'm here is I had the opportunity to serve as a CIO at the 1/22 fighter wing out here in the fort. And so with me actually in the back is Wendy Davis. She was an honorary thank you, our honorary commander at the time for the Mission Support Group.
00:00:18:21 - 00:00:42:17
Unknown
And so she spent time there just helping us as a wing get into the community and things like that. And then Liz Newman is next to her. She was definitely a friend. Colleague of mine helped me. I ran for Congress in 2022 during that cycle in northwest Indiana. And then you'll see Lacy out. And between cameras. And Lacy is the CEO of Battle Proven Leadership.
00:00:42:19 - 00:01:00:00
Unknown
And so she's she helps me a lot. And it's an honor to have her here with us today as well. I've had the opportunity to serve in the military for the past 22 years. And so graduated from the United States Air Force Academy and took that time to get a lot of technical training, but largely started off training as a pilot.
00:01:00:00 - 00:01:23:01
Unknown
And then did the majority of my career on active duty as a counterintelligence agent, vetting and recruiting spies downrange to prepare for our objectives. And currently, I am an executive officer to a one star and our responsibility or his responsibilities to oversee the Nevada Air Guard. So that's what I get the opportunity to do now. I'm incredibly passionate about leadership.
00:01:23:03 - 00:01:44:00
Unknown
And that was the foundation of battle, proven leadership and some of the principles that I've learned from my combat time, time. And in serving, as you know, the CIO there at the fort. And so it's something that I find is incredibly important. There are a couple of topics that we talk about that people are incredibly interested in as I go about and have the opportunity to do seminars.
00:01:44:02 - 00:02:05:15
Unknown
One is how to handle discipline and the other is how to run an effective meeting. And I'm all about practical leadership. I think we get a lot of people who are information fat and application skinny and people who understand and will read books but don't understand how to practically input or inject the information into their particular workspaces. And so today we're going to talk about how to effectively handle discipline.
00:02:05:17 - 00:02:27:00
Unknown
And I think it's incredibly important for us as leaders to understand that conveying value is the most important thing we can do for our people. People will crawl over rocks for you if they believe that you have their best interest at heart. And being in combat, it's important for me to think through how do I get people to at any level, regardless of what the responsibility is, to understand that they could.
00:02:27:02 - 00:02:49:07
Unknown
You know, what I asked them to do could cost them everything up to and including their lives. And I recognize that's not the standard of everyday business. But how do you how do you infiltrate that that sentiment, break down those barriers and make sure that people are ready to perform how you need them to perform? So executing high levels of leadership is something that I think is incredibly important, and that's what we do about proven leadership.
00:02:49:09 - 00:03:10:17
Unknown
I like this quote by Gus Lee specifically when talking about discipline. Conflict, diversion is the organizational bubonic plague of our times. It is cowardice wearing a smart, politically correct hat. Oftentimes, we find that dealing with discipline or handling issues, confronting issues without being confrontational is something that we don't have the practical task or practical skills to be able to do or to be able to work through.
00:03:10:18 - 00:03:26:04
Unknown
And sometimes it's easier for us to try to avoid it, to delegate it, to let things continue to sit and fester. But at the end of the day, what we cannot allow is for people or events or activities to become distractions. We have to keep our processes tight and streamlined for the sake of what we need to do.
00:03:26:09 - 00:03:52:06
Unknown
And that's what we're going to talk about today, confronting issues without being confrontational. How do we convey value? By exercising practical and effective discipline as leaders when we have expectations that are unmet? That's exactly what issues are. When I say the word issues, it's it's it's replaceable with the phrase unmet expectations. So it's not a matter of if it's going to happen in your organization.
00:03:52:06 - 00:04:17:07
Unknown
It's a matter of when. And you as the leader have to ensure that you don't overlook it, because if you don't address it, who will? And you have to address these events before they become a distraction. If you allow them to sit and fester, it's going to just like a cancer sit and infect and grow. And it is your responsibility, my responsibility, our responsibility as leaders to handle things as quickly and efficiently as possible.
00:04:17:09 - 00:04:36:10
Unknown
I don't know how many of you have heard of the 9010 rule, but you spend 90% of your time on 10% of the people. Right? And when you're dealing with discipline, it's always the same faces all the time. And so those are the people that you're going to have to think through and evaluate. But that kind of makes it easy because you understand those people and how to deal with them personally.
00:04:36:12 - 00:04:57:12
Unknown
Every time you have an unmet expectation, it is going to be a function of two things will or skill. We'll talk about what they look like, but the most important part that you have to remember is that you have to determine which of those factors is the causation for somebody's specific event or failure to meet your expectation. And you have to do it before you engage with them.
00:04:57:14 - 00:05:15:09
Unknown
If you fail to do that, you can go off the rails and cause a lot more difficulty. One of the things that I heard I was in Nevada this weekend and I had the opportunity to connect with one of my mentors. And essentially what I got from our conversation was the reality that at lower levels people become distractions, right?
00:05:15:11 - 00:05:35:21
Unknown
So if you have somebody who should be performing a function and they're on their phone, it distracts other people or it doesn't get the work done as quickly as it can. But at the upper echelons, as senior leaders, as CEOs, CEOs, that kind of level, you become a disruptor. And there is a clear difference. That distraction is something that you can kind of put off, fix whatever.
00:05:35:23 - 00:05:55:22
Unknown
But a senior leader becomes a disruptor. Like a tsunami, an earthquake, something that disrupts the entire train. And so if you as a senior leader are not handling issues, it is more than a distraction, because now people are looking around and saying these are distractions, but they continue to build. And if you have ten distractions, they're continuing to grow.
00:05:56:01 - 00:06:18:23
Unknown
And if you're not leading, you are the disruptor. So you have to understand that concept. I have to understand that concept, and I have to be proactive in ensuring that I solve problems. But rationale is important to determine prior to engaging. Now, again, will versus skill. When expectations are unmet, it's going to be one of the two. Will means an individual chooses not to meet the expectation.
00:06:19:01 - 00:06:42:10
Unknown
I'm willingly not going to do what you want me to do. Now that is an individually owned issue and that results in consequences, whatever the consequence may be. And we'll talk about how to deal with that. But the other is skill. That means a person is incapable of meeting the expectation that's owned by the supervision and that results in training or getting assistance for that particular person.
00:06:42:12 - 00:06:59:18
Unknown
So we'll break those down a little bit. Let's talk about figuring out which is which. These are some questions that ideally you would have asked before you gave someone a task. However, if you didn't do that and they weren't properly equipped, these are some of the things that you can find out on the backend. So let's say someone failed to meet your expectation.
00:06:59:20 - 00:07:18:01
Unknown
I tell my troops, I say, I need you to be in the right place at the right time, in the right uniform. If that's zero 734, the first scheduled event, you're wearing the right uniform. That's what I need you to be there. And I tell them the difference between responsible a responsible person and a responsible person is when you communicate.
00:07:18:03 - 00:07:38:20
Unknown
If you communicate that, you didn't come in to work on time and you tell me 30 minutes before and say, Hey, I'm running behind, there's a lot of traffic, there's an accident. I just looked it up on Google Maps and you let me know I'm fine, I can adjust. But if after the fact, you show up and you're all scraggly and you're not in the right place at the right time, I've already had time to be upset about the fact that you're not there.
00:07:38:23 - 00:08:02:01
Unknown
And then you say, Oh, there was traffic. It was crazy. There were so many things happening. The difference is you are responsible or irresponsible simply based on when you communicate in regards to that timeline. And so when communicating with people, I want to understand that they understand what I've asked them to do. So again, ideally you would ask these questions beforehand, but let's just say post X expectations have not been met.
00:08:02:03 - 00:08:15:20
Unknown
Did you understand what I asked you to do? Did you understand that you're supposed to be on time? Did you understand that? I need you to pull this stack. Did you understand that if you didn't run these cables, did you understand that the security of this element was what we were focusing on this week? Did you understand that your deadline was 1600 today?
00:08:15:21 - 00:08:37:14
Unknown
4:00 in the afternoon? Yes. Yes, ma'am, I did. No, ma'am, I didn't. Whatever. Did you have the tools you needed? Were you equipped? Because if you weren't equipped, again, that goes into will versus skill. If I didn't equip you, that's on me. And if I ask you to do something that's outside of your skill set, then I can't be upset when you haven't met My expectation.
00:08:37:16 - 00:09:00:07
Unknown
Were you trained on this task? Different questions to ask. Explore will versus skill. So let's say you ask those questions and you make a clear determination and you say, okay, this is skill. The skill section breaks down into personal or professional. Sometimes people professionally are not skilled to complete a task, and sometimes they're not personally skilled to complete a task.
00:09:00:07 - 00:09:21:04
Unknown
And we'll talk about both. Professional means they're not trained. That means that you need to take responsibility and provide training. So take responsibility for your section. So we talked a little bit about this. We provided the example of let's just say you have an admin colleague, somebody who's responsible just for simple recordkeeping, and you ask them to run a network.
00:09:21:06 - 00:09:45:20
Unknown
Well, it's an irrational ask, but you can't be upset. But I want to talk today about how this impacted me when I was exploring will versus skill, specifically concerning the personal side, when somebody wasn't equipped to do their job. I was a young captain and I was sitting in my office and I had a tech sergeant, a mid-level manager come into my office and say to me, Hey, man, I'm supervising this staff sergeant.
00:09:45:20 - 00:10:05:09
Unknown
How many of you are military in here, by the way? Prior military. Okay, good. At least I always work on my vocabulary because I get extra comfortable. And then afterwards, people say, I didn't understand half of what you meant, but thank you for you for. So I'm sitting in my office and I'm a junior officer responsible for a section.
00:10:05:09 - 00:10:31:05
Unknown
I'm a deputy commander of a nuclear unit. And so he comes in and he says, Hey, ma'am, we have Staff Sergeant So-and-so, a subordinate of his, who is failing to do her job. Essentially, she shows up to work and she's here on a 12 hour shift. But when I come into work, she's on the night shift. I come in in the morning, I see her work product, and her work product is less than perfect, and she hasn't completed the things that I've asked her to do.
00:10:31:07 - 00:10:54:04
Unknown
And so for the last several weeks, what's been happening is she stays after and takes time to do this extra work, which means she's here for 14 hours a day. Largely, it wouldn't be a big deal. However, in the nuclear enterprise, it's our responsibility to make sure that if you are any part of that, you have to be on a status which requires you to have crew rest.
00:10:54:06 - 00:11:11:19
Unknown
So it's your responsibility to make sure that you are sharp mentally and you have the acuity. In fact, in this status, you can't take your own medicine. You can't show up and take sinus meds and be drowsy and hitting the red button. Right. Good plan, good life plan for the world. And so you have to have crew rest.
00:11:11:20 - 00:11:35:02
Unknown
So her timeline was starting to extend into this particular breach potentially. So we were like, what's happening? So he said, Would you support providing a permanent file record document that nonjudicial punishment that says essentially you failed to do your job and we need to record it? And I said, she's a really good troop. What's going on? He's I don't know, ma'am.
00:11:35:02 - 00:11:50:05
Unknown
She's just not doing her work. And I said, I understand. I said, go back and see what's happening. And so says, Yes, ma'am. So he walks out of my office, and then I continue to do my work. And the next morning, I come into work and he comes to me and he his is. Ma'am, can I come in?
00:11:50:06 - 00:12:10:14
Unknown
Sure. And he sits down in a chair in my office, and he just starts crying. I say, okay. Not every day a grown man in uniform starts crying in my desk at my desk. But what's happening? So he just said, Ma'am, I just want to say thank you. He said, I want to say thank you because this is a situation Thank you for sending me to go ask questions.
00:12:10:16 - 00:12:29:05
Unknown
I went to go talk to Sergeant so-and-so and it turns out that she and her husband are having incredible difficulties and those difficulties are causing her to not want to be home. She's having problems at home. She doesn't want to be home, but she's also not sleeping. She's not sleeping because they're preparing to get a divorce and because she's not sleeping, she wants to be at work.
00:12:29:06 - 00:12:55:06
Unknown
She's tired at work, can't do her stuff and then ends up failing to meet expectations and is now having to stay a couple of hours after to do the things that she needs to do. And resultantly here I was ready to punish her, but instead I was able to give her the number of the chaplain, the number of the director of psychological health, the lawyers, everybody that she could want to feasibly connect with, and given her the time and opportunity to handle those things so that she can get better.
00:12:55:08 - 00:13:18:11
Unknown
And he said, I just want to say thank you because I want in guns blazing when in reality I should have figured out the problem first. And so happy end to the story that Troup actually ended up reconciling with her husband. And she and her husband welcomed a daughter. And then she took an assignment serving Air Force One, working on security for that enterprise, that piece of the enterprise.
00:13:18:13 - 00:13:41:05
Unknown
And she was at that moment emotionally incapable of doing her job. And he would have never explored that had he not been willing to ask the questions. And sometimes when we look at skill, we have to consider is it personal or professional? Asking those questions is anything going on? Is everything okay? And you can get to the bottom of some of these things.
00:13:41:05 - 00:14:02:16
Unknown
Pretty quickly. All right. Let's just say somebody with wanton, brazen disregard says, I'm not doing that. Largely, that's not the case. But at times, people are not going to meet your expectations. You've prepared to them they're mentally, emotionally, physically capable to do the job and they just fail to do it. That's when you willingly choose not to do what I've asked you to do.
00:14:02:18 - 00:14:23:00
Unknown
How do we deal with that? Well, this is where we get to talking about meetings. This is where we get to talking about how we provide reconciliation and help somebody to be reengaged willfully into the program and wanting them to be back as a part of the team. So there are there are six key principles that I've personally identified here.
00:14:23:02 - 00:14:39:06
Unknown
And again, all of these things are the brainchild of my mind. So I don't know that I don't think you're going to find them anywhere else. But I'm a big fan of the thought that nothing is new in leadership under the Sonics. That's definitely repackaged. So these are just some of the things that I think you can take home.
00:14:39:06 - 00:15:00:23
Unknown
And if there are things that you would love to add or subtract or discuss, please do feel free to let me know and we can talk about it later, but we'll talk through these pretty extensively over the next 15 minutes. Number one, focus on the process to emotionally prepare, physically prepare for your meeting with your colleague, prepare for two way communication, document the meeting, and then facilitate your desired end state.
00:15:01:01 - 00:15:24:02
Unknown
Focus on the process. Every time we do literally anything as leaders, we have to start with why Simon Sinek tells us that, but it's so incredibly necessary. We have to figure out why we're doing what we're doing to understand the strategy. And as leaders, we go back every day to our why. If we say, hey, i want to be the best midwest i.t provider as measured by these three goals.
00:15:24:04 - 00:15:46:23
Unknown
Great. And if you say we're going to take all of our business and do business in california, well, you're not helping yourself because you have a clear definition of your why you want to serve the midwest. Super easy example of getting off track. However, what's important is you have to understand your desired outcome, and your desired outcome should be reconciliation, rehabilitation, helping somebody to get back into the team.
00:15:47:01 - 00:16:08:23
Unknown
It shouldn't be a matter of pride. It shouldn't be a matter of suppressing egos. It shouldn't be a matter of changing someone's ideals or ideologies, changing behavior and reconciliation into the team should be your key priorities. When you're considering discipline, you want to make sure that you want to make people better. If you don't want to make people better, question whether or not this is the right role for you.
00:16:09:01 - 00:16:29:12
Unknown
If you're like, Oh, I want to make this person look bad merely because it allows me to look better. Poor choice. Poor choice for you, poor role and responsibility for you in leadership. Think through those things and process them. Focus on the process. Second, emotionally, prepare for a meeting if you're going to connect with someone. You have to think through what you're going to do.
00:16:29:13 - 00:16:50:17
Unknown
The first thing I would ask you to do is to commit to respond and not react. There's a clear difference between those two words. Respond. Adding is something that is intentional. Reacting is something that is natural. And our first reaction. Sometimes when people don't meet our expectations, expectations is to put a knife hand in their face and say, How could you?
00:16:50:19 - 00:17:10:00
Unknown
Why would you do that? What made you think this was acceptable? And I realize part of that is the military side. We don't really yell at people in the civilian world. I understand. And I've had opportunities in the civilian world and understand completely. But you've had bosses who fly off the handle and raise your hand if you were like, That was a good life plan.
00:17:10:00 - 00:17:30:07
Unknown
I really enjoyed that session. No hands. Good. All right. So you have to commit to respond, not react. So you say if there's a situation that you need to deal with, with immediacy, you can put a pause on it. You can put a break and you can say, hey, give me your name, please. Sean. Sean, we're going to talk about this, but we'll set up a time tomorrow and we'll figure it out.
00:17:30:08 - 00:18:03:03
Unknown
So be prepared. But we're gonna talk about this, and that conversation allows me the time to step back, not react, and just step away. I have determined in my personal life as a leader to never discipline while I was angry. That came from me being a freshman at the Air Force Academy. I remember we had sophomores as our primary trainers and one of the things we would do and every time I tell these stories, I realize how ridiculous it sounds to tell about the fact that you wake up at six in the morning and you stand in the hallway and you shout information that tells upperclassmen what they're going to wear that day, what the
00:18:03:03 - 00:18:22:21
Unknown
uniform is, what they're going to eat for breakfast, what they're serving, and to news articles as well as all of the airplanes in the Air Force inventory. I get it. It's weird. So we wake up, we're doing the thing, and sophomores are our primary trainers. It's a monday and we had a trainer who was not openly antagonistic. He was always holding us to standards.
00:18:22:21 - 00:18:46:00
Unknown
And so we would do pushups. We would do sit ups, do the things, and he would ask for different knowledge pieces. Cadet GREENE What is the crew compliment of the F-16? You serve the F-16, C slash the fighting Falcon, nicknamed Viper. General Dynamics manufacturer. Crew Compliment pilot. And that's the answer. So anyway, we're down on the ground doing pushups, doing flutter kicks and that day he's openly antagonistic.
00:18:46:05 - 00:19:08:00
Unknown
He's very difficult. And he's like ten pushups. Nine of those didn't count. Do ten more. And so we're just doing them and we're tired and we're sweaty and we're getting ready to go to class. And it's just a long, laborious event. And I remember he's just being cruel because he can. And come to find out later that weekend, his girlfriend had broken up with him from home.
00:19:08:02 - 00:19:33:11
Unknown
So he was going through the emotions, but taking out his anger and frustration on us. And I remember as a 19 year old, I committed that day that I will never exercise discipline while I'm angry. And I will make sure that I hold back, step back because it's so important to respond and not react. And so when I consider how I'm going to connect with people, I need to center focus myself first.
00:19:33:12 - 00:19:55:04
Unknown
I pray. I think about what I want to do. I think about what I want the environment to be. And then I think, okay, this particular individual, how does he or she respond to correction? Sometimes they're sensitive, sometimes people are stubborn. For me personally, if you just say, Jennifer, I'm disappointed in you. Okay. All right. Okay. But if you're like Jennifer Ruth, how could you like.
00:19:55:05 - 00:20:11:14
Unknown
I don't know. I just didn't do. I don't know. And I'm generally stubborn if you approach me with with crazy. I mean, crazy, too. You're crazy. But if you're a sensitive I'm a sensitive type of you to say I'm disappointed. I don't think you should have done that. Then my behavior will change very quickly. But people deal with things differently.
00:20:11:14 - 00:20:28:14
Unknown
They deal with situations differently. And that's part of getting to know your people. We talk a little bit about that throughout the rest of the course, but that's something that you have to think through. And if somebody is sensitive, it might be an easy meeting, but if it's not and they're stubborn, then you might need to consider, Do I need to bring another person into this meeting?
00:20:28:16 - 00:20:45:23
Unknown
If we're going to have a meeting, maybe it's just, you know, who do I bring? And the question is, should I bring their supervisor? Most likely, yes. Don't bring a peer. Don't bring someone who they're going to have to talk to the next day about it. Bring a bring a supervisor. If they're your direct report, bring a supervisor that's at your level.
00:20:45:23 - 00:21:02:11
Unknown
If you're CIO, bring your CFO in or bring your SEO own and have them sit so that they can observe. And it may be a safety factor. It may be someone who's a witness. Oftentimes somebody can turn around a one on one conversation, especially when it comes to discipline and say, they never told me that, or I didn't know that this was an issue.
00:21:02:13 - 00:21:23:02
Unknown
And so it's important for you to consider for your personal safety and also for the record that you have somebody else in the room. Then you need to finish physically prepare and I'll accelerate this. I know we have time, but physically prepare. Commit to punish in public. In our praise in public, punish in private. This does not go for spot corrections.
00:21:23:04 - 00:21:41:02
Unknown
Small corrections are things where you need to tell somebody, put a hardhat on or use a ladder, or we don't talk like that here. Those are things that you need to be very clear and direct and bold about and be unashamedly confident that you are making a correction on the spot and it needs to be done with immediacy.
00:21:41:04 - 00:21:58:12
Unknown
However, if you're going to have a situation where somebody has been late multiple times, then you might want to set up a situation where the two of you are sitting next to one another so you can just sit next to them and say, Hey, you've been laid a couple of times, talk to me about that. But if it's heavy discipline, you have to fire someone.
00:21:58:12 - 00:22:17:13
Unknown
You have to prepare for something, then you might want a physical barrier for safety or you might want a physical barrier for the sake of establishing the presence that they need to understand that they're there and you're here and they messed up. So think about that. But also in preparing your environment, think about the fact that it's going to be a hard conversation.
00:22:17:14 - 00:22:35:22
Unknown
So you might want bottles of water. People are going to get choked up. It's hard to talk. You might want tissues if they start to cry, things like that. Consider your environment and physically prepare for that. Also, timing is incredibly important. First of all, the timing between the infraction and the discipline. How many of you have children in here?
00:22:36:00 - 00:22:53:17
Unknown
A lot of you. Can you imagine if you're like you had a ten year old or like when you were three, you spilled your food, you're in trouble. It's ridiculous. Right? And it's the same kind of concept. Obviously, that's out of control. But if you don't discipline with near immediacy, then the fact that you're disciplining loses all of its value.
00:22:53:19 - 00:23:16:00
Unknown
Somebody may not be able to understand why You may not be able to research or understand what's happening and go through the process effectively. I recommend disciplining early in the day. Why? Because you have the opportunity to follow up during, you know, afterwards, later on in the day. So if you discipline early in the day, you have the chance to sit across from someone and say, hey, my expectations were met, let's talk about it.
00:23:16:02 - 00:23:35:23
Unknown
Handle the process appropriately. And then you have the opportunity to to observe their behavior. Right? You have the opportunity to say this person's okay if they're a bawling mess. If there's somebody that just can't handle it or they didn't, you know, they're like, I didn't know I got blindsided or, Oh, you just found out that I embezzled $30,000, whatever.
00:23:36:04 - 00:23:59:13
Unknown
Like, you have to make sure that they're okay. And if you can think through the process at the end of the day, at 4:00 in the afternoon, if you're not going to see them until the next morning at 8:00. That's a lot of hours between you knowing whether they're okay or not. If they go home and they binge drink, if they go home and they and they're speeding, if they're driving drunk, whatever it is, or worst case scenario, they decide that they're going to hurt themselves or somebody else.
00:23:59:18 - 00:24:21:09
Unknown
Right. You don't have the situational awareness on that. So discipline early in the day. Connect later on. We'll talk about that and also do it on a weekday for the same reason. Because if you do it on a Friday and you don't see them until Monday, then you have that time lapse that's going to create difficulty. Next, I want to ask you to consider promoting two way communication.
00:24:21:11 - 00:24:43:11
Unknown
This has to be a conversation. When you were talking to someone else, very rarely do I use the tool that this becomes a monologue. If it becomes a monologue, it's because someone is stubborn. It's because someone's not paying attention. It's because someone's not owning up to the reality that they have created a distraction or nay a disruption according to the level of which they serve in our organization.
00:24:43:13 - 00:25:01:15
Unknown
So questions stir the conscience, accusations heart in the will. If you hear nothing else that I say today, I would ask that you take that you write that out and you consider that long term questions stir the conscience accusations heart in the will. What do I mean by that? When you knife hand someone and say, What's your name?
00:25:01:16 - 00:25:22:10
Unknown
Jen. I like it. Jen, you are underperforming. Figure it out. Get it together. People don't usually respond to that. Hey, Jen, you're late today. It's going on. And then you can tell me your story. And you can. I can understand more about your character, how you understand discipline, where you understand your role is in the company. And I can say things like, Yeah, I get that.
00:25:22:10 - 00:25:39:04
Unknown
I understand that. It's like you may have to leave earlier or whatever it is. We can solve the problem more effectively, but commit to, to a conversation. And that starts by asking questions, leading with open ended questions. Some opening lines. You can see this is what I know. Can you fill me in on why you made that choice?
00:25:39:06 - 00:26:03:14
Unknown
And people will tell you and they will also feel happy because they can share their side of the story and they don't walk in. Of course, they're going to walk in with fear and trepidation, but you can help them to feel comfortable by establishing the environment and providing an opportunity for them to share their story. Then you have to clearly communicate the unmet expectation and the expected conduct.
00:26:03:16 - 00:26:25:13
Unknown
You made this joke. It is absolutely inappropriate. I can't allow it to continue. This is the type of behavior that we cannot have in our organization. I want an organization where people and our culture is first and foremost, and people feel comfortable being here. When you say those things, you undermine my ability to do that. So be very clear and don't don't be vague.
00:26:25:19 - 00:26:47:20
Unknown
Hey, it's not a not a good idea to do stuff. Thanks. See you later. No. Be very clear so that people can understand. And then also so that they know your expectations to be able to execute them. Not just so that they know it, so that they can feel it and do it. All right. Then, Ron, number five, document the conversation.
00:26:47:22 - 00:27:07:08
Unknown
This is incredibly important. Immediately after the conversation happens, prepare for future conversations by taking notes. You can do it informally by merely just saying scribbling the five WS in an H. Who, what, when, where, why, and how. Or you can do it formally. Type of memo. And these don't have to be public. You don't have to put them on a public domain.
00:27:07:08 - 00:27:26:00
Unknown
You don't have to send them to H.R.. They can sit as files on your computer on 13. Or what's today? On 17 October 20, 23, I talked to Jen about being late for the third time. She said it's because her alarm doesn't work. We focused on and talked about practical reasons why a supervisor needs to be on time, and I bought her a new alarm clock.
00:27:26:02 - 00:27:44:06
Unknown
Whatever. Throw that in. Put it. Take those notes. These are going to be helpful because when you're looking at, you know, when the colleague comes back and says, you know, I'm late for the fourth time, you can say, hey, on the 17th, I talked about you talked with you about this behavior on the 13th. I talked to you about this behavior.
00:27:44:09 - 00:28:02:20
Unknown
And you can say for reference, this is what happened. This is what we talked about. What am I missing? How do I connect with you? How do I communicate to you that this is incredibly important? And then also for H.R., if you're talking about salary raises, evaluations, all of those types of things, it's important for you to understand for them to understand the picture that you're painting.
00:28:03:01 - 00:28:22:23
Unknown
And if you're like, don't promote this person, don't pay this person more, or fire this person at the very worst, and you have no capability to back up anything that you've said without having clear documentation. So document, document, document. All right. Then you want to facilitate your desired end state. We talked at the beginning. What is your why?
00:28:23:01 - 00:28:39:09
Unknown
If you want them to be rehabilitated, you're going to have to make that a clear part of your process. Help them to feel valued and not punished. And we'll talk about some practical ways to do that. Follow up Before the end of the day, I recommend saying at the end of your meeting, hey, let's meet together today at 330.
00:28:39:09 - 00:28:53:22
Unknown
I just want to pop in and I want to answer any questions you may have. I have learned that there are people whose style Lacey, specifically her style is to kind of let things mull over in her mind. And then ten years later, she's like, Hey, you remember that meeting? You said, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, No, I don't remember.
00:28:54:02 - 00:29:17:13
Unknown
Okay, but let me just tell you how I feel about it. Like, okay. Lacey thinks she's better than that. It's not ten years, it's like five. But so you want people who have to sit and ruminate and think about things to be able to connect back with you. And so at the end of the day, they may say, You know what, I really appreciated this or I was really bothered by this, or I don't think this is accurately like you understood me when I said X, Y, Z.
00:29:17:14 - 00:29:35:00
Unknown
And so when they come back at the end of the day, that may be the conversation they want to have. And you can have a calmer conversation and they don't feel intimidated and they know that they're welcome. But also, it facilitates that ability to reintegrate them back to the team. And so they may not have anything to say, but that poppin, you just say, hey, you know what?
00:29:35:00 - 00:29:54:03
Unknown
I'm glad you're part of the team. Thanks so much for listening today. I really appreciate you taking my feedback. Thank you so much. I look forward to tomorrow. Have a great night and then also have a positive handoff. There is difficulty to be had in these situations. If you had somebody in the room with you, great. Let that person escort them out to their work center.
00:29:54:05 - 00:30:23:04
Unknown
Or if there's a friend that they want that they'd choose, or if your company has a director of psychological health or a chaplain or something like that, bring them and allow them to come and have a, I don't know, classified is the right word, but to have a confidential conversation with somebody so they can just vent or sit or cry or whatever, but somebody has that positive hand off to know, hey, this person's not okay, and I am taking responsibility to take them back to their car, to take them back to wherever they're going, if they just need to have time to be calm.
00:30:23:04 - 00:30:38:09
Unknown
So I would encourage you to have somebody set up to do that. You obviously don't want to tell their business, but if you were to say to their supervisor, if that person wasn't in the meeting, hey, Shawn, I'm going to talk to Jen, If you would come to my office around 330, she'll be out by then. If you just kind of wait around and take her back to the office.
00:30:38:09 - 00:30:53:22
Unknown
If she wants to talk to you, she will. If not, I just want to make sure she has somebody with her too easy. All right. Two paragraphs here. Can I get a volunteer to read the top? This is kind of an end of day conversation. Yes, ma'am. And houndstooth. You look like you volunteered. Would you read the top?
00:30:54:00 - 00:31:12:04
Unknown
Earlier today was going to get an iPhone. I understood what your thoughts were. I wanted to follow up and see if you had any questions about anything we talked about today. Super simple. Same things we just said. And then perhaps will we rephrase it if they don't have questions? Here's another paragraph. Shawn, would you read it for me?
00:31:12:06 - 00:31:29:02
Unknown
I just want to let you know you're a valued member of this team, and if there's anything you need, let me know. But otherwise, I look forward to seeing you continue to make progress. Super simple. And you? These aren't verbatim. These are. There's some recommendations, phrases you could use to end the conversation. All right, Last one, sir. In the blue.
00:31:29:02 - 00:31:46:14
Unknown
Polo, would you mind that you're checking in, in other words, of our conversation here today, I appreciate you sharing, but I want to make sure that last caps, which was anything else that you want to share in the meantime, please let me know otherwise before. See you tomorrow. Good. End of day conversation. Super simple. All right. These are some final thoughts.
00:31:46:16 - 00:32:07:11
Unknown
Confronting issues is essential. You cannot escape it. The cowardice of letting things fester causes you to not just be a distraction, but a disruption because you are a leader and people are looking for you to lead. And when you fail to lead, people fail to understand what their job is because they're worried about your job and you have to do your job.
00:32:07:16 - 00:32:29:00
Unknown
We can only focus on the things that only we can do. And as leaders, discipline is our responsibility. All right. Confronting issues is required, plain and simple. So the consideration and planning that we provided and talked about today is going to certainly help you. But think about the process if you don't fix it, who will? All right. I know we talked about a lot to fIREHOSE.
00:32:29:04 - 00:32:49:23
Unknown
I took a few minutes over, but is there anything with specificity that you'd like to address from any of the things we talked about? Pretty straightforward. Yes. All right. Either you all understood or you don't care. I don't know. Either way, we're going to the next slide. Okay. So these are some of the resources. Just finished a book called People Don't Quit their Jobs.
00:32:49:23 - 00:33:03:23
Unknown
They quit their bosses become the leader people want to follow. It's probably coming out in December. It's right now with the Air Force. They're reviewing some of the things that we talked about. I share some experiences from combat, and they just want to make sure that the Air Force has a look bad. And then I didn't send out or put out any tradecraft.
00:33:04:01 - 00:33:21:16
Unknown
So that's what we're looking for. If you want to follow us on Facebook, you absolutely can. Our website has a lot of materials as well. Lacy has a table set up if you want to be involved in any of our communication, but we are incredibly excited to be here today. We do. We have some online resources, but I do generally about a four and a half, five hour seminar with about 14 topics.
00:33:21:16 - 00:33:26:21
Unknown
This is just one of the 14. So happy to connect with you and your teams if we can be of any value to.