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The Relaxed Running podcast is a behind the scenes conversation with the best athletes, coaches and professionals in the world of distance running. From training, hydration and nutrition to racing and recovering, we learn from the best in the world.
Relaxed conversations which are packed with actionable takeaways to help you take your running performance up a notch. Save yourself years of guess work and learn from the people who are doing it at the highest level.
Tyson (00:00.521)
Wednesday morning.
Sarah Gearhart (00:02.431)
Okay, so you're in the future. You're living in the future. It's 521 PM.
Tyson (00:04.313)
Yeah, that's so what is it? What is it in Mexico?
Tyson (00:10.573)
Okay, so you really should have knocked off by now. I appreciate you making the time.
Sarah Gearhart (00:13.682)
No, no, it's okay. I don't have a 9 to 5 schedule at all.
Tyson (00:18.785)
What is your schedule at the moment? So at the moment, you said you're down in Mexico City, you finished a book proposal or you're working on a book proposal.
Sarah Gearhart (00:23.148)
Yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (00:27.142)
I'm about to finish the draft so I hit 52 pages. I'm going to go through and edit it and of course I will add more to it. I just needed to be somewhere and hide out in a corner without being in a cabin in the woods around nobody. It's a really fun city and I hadn't been in two years and there's a really great community here so I just wanted to be here and try to get that done without having to deal with the...
Sarah Gearhart (00:54.998)
frenetic chaotic energy of New York City because I was there before I came here and it was just like really jarring on my nervous system. I didn't get anything like significant done. So yeah, I came. I did what I came here to do. Yeah.
Tyson (01:09.097)
I've heard that about New York City. I said before, hit record. I've never been there before, but I follow a lot of YouTubers and a lot of comedians. There's a guy Casey Neistat, whose office is based in New York City. And he speaks about the frustration he has trying to record script and trying to record film where there has to be like a monologue recorded because the road outside him, I'm not sure what the street name is, but it's just constant buses and car horns and people yelling. And it looks incredible, but I can imagine for an author.
Sarah Gearhart (01:11.218)
Oh yeah, it's two.
Sarah Gearhart (01:28.425)
Yes, it's true.
Sarah Gearhart (01:31.79)
Oh shoot.
Tyson (01:37.189)
or someone who's trying to focus for some time. It could be, as you say, frenetic and maybe.
Sarah Gearhart (01:43.23)
It's like you want to be in a quiet space so that you can hear your thoughts and it's hard to do that with like a police siren and like people arguing on the street and you know things like that. It's just impossible which is why I really appreciated being in Kenya because it's so quiet there and you know you just don't you can like let your shoulders down and like relax for a second and yeah it was it was amazing to be there.
Tyson (02:08.161)
I'm so interested to speak to you more about this because as I said, I'm really interested. I've heard you speak quite a lot about your experiences in Kenya. And there's a few things that really stood out to me that we'll get to in a minute. But before I do, do you write well in really quiet locations or do you like a bit of a background hum?
Sarah Gearhart (02:24.254)
100% no, no. You know, in the past, I've been able to write from coffee shops in New York City and like looking back, I can't believe that I was even able to do that. But granted, you know, they were shorter stories. So you can have a shorter attention span to be able to do that. But now I just can't, I can't, I just run away from noise. And I think that when I'm in a quiet space, I can actually like see the material
Sarah Gearhart (02:54.41)
I can edit more clearly and it just helps not to have so many distractions around you.
Tyson (03:01.125)
Yeah, from the interviews that I've heard of you, I got the vibe that you could have been a real introvert character. One of the ones I heard you speaking about just how you enjoy going out for a run and just having your own thoughts and not necessarily socializing. And I thought, oh, I think writing seems like the perfect industry for Sarah because of the fact you get so much time to sit back and reflect and plan and be by yourself and process your thoughts.
Sarah Gearhart (03:17.426)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (03:23.766)
That's true, yeah. No, I think I am really a writer, like through and through. I think I'm certainly introverted. I definitely like to have a lot of time alone to do my work, but I'm not totally anti-social. I definitely like to have adventures and explore the world with people. So I think I'm a little bit balanced in that way, but certainly I prefer to be by myself when I'm doing my work.
Tyson (03:51.909)
Yeah, how long have you been writing for?
Sarah Gearhart (03:53.878)
17 years professionally, but I actually interned when I was in college. I interned for my college's magazine. So I did that for a couple years, but you know writing is something that I knew I wanted to get into from a pretty young age and I was exposed to books, magazines, etc. When I was a child, you know, that was on our breakfast table.
Sarah Gearhart (04:22.71)
Rolling Stone magazine, Vanity Fair, Vogue, et cetera. That was just like on my breakfast table and that's what I would like page through in the morning before going to school. And then my mom, she would take me to the library quite a bit. So I got into reading at a very early age and developed an interest in writing when I was in elementary school actually. So I think it's unusual for a kid to understand their direction in terms of their career. But mine...
Sarah Gearhart (04:53.506)
I knew what I wanted to do, so I did what I could to pursue that in terms of developing my skills in high school and in college. Yeah, so I've been writing for a really long time is my point.
Tyson (05:06.789)
That's awesome. So outside of that college magazine, did you have a preference to write about sport or did you want to be a sports writer in general? Cause I know, I don't actually know a lot about your background as a writer. Before we jump into the whole story about why I invited you on here, I was just curious to pick your brain a little bit about the background to what led you to where you are as a writer. Cause yeah, outside of that college magazine and outside of a few runners world, it's runners world that you wrote for, isn't it?
Sarah Gearhart (05:25.036)
Yes.
Sarah Gearhart (05:32.906)
Yeah, runners were, yes.
Tyson (05:34.201)
outside of some of the runners world. I didn't know a heap about you as a writer. This has been a massive introduction to the world of Sarah Gearhart for me, which has been a beautiful introduction. Cause I mean, you've come into my world in style, which has been unbelievable. But yeah, what did that look like for you? The process of getting towards writing about, you know, we share the sun.
Sarah Gearhart (05:39.604)
Yes.
Sarah Gearhart (05:47.662)
Pfft
Sarah Gearhart (05:53.702)
Okay, so first of all, just to kind of backtrack, I didn't grow up wanting to be a sports writer. Believe it or not, I actually wanted to work for Rolling Stone magazine because I have always been into music and I actually at one point I even applied for a writing internship with the magazine. So like that was the direction that I wanted to go. I happened to fall into, you know...
Sarah Gearhart (06:18.694)
different path and my first job out of college was with a sports performance media company in Cleveland, Ohio and I was hired as an assistant editor. So that was really how I got into sports writing and I just never really left the field. Yeah. So I got really lucky because I was hired before I graduated from college which was pretty unique. Yeah.
Tyson (06:38.185)
That's unreal.
Tyson (06:44.965)
and you were running all the way through college?
Sarah Gearhart (06:46.942)
Yes, I actually started running when I was 15. I grew up doing ballet and all kinds of dance and then I played soccer and actually like looking back I wanted to be a prima ballerina but you know I'm short I'm five foot two so like that was never gonna work out because yeah prima ballerinas are you know they have there's a certain you know standard to be in that field and it was just never gonna work out for me. Yeah but
Tyson (07:15.537)
5'2 allows you to still run some pretty decent marathons, so you're winning that direction, huh? Yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (07:18.978)
It's okay. It's okay. Actually, I ran my first marathon when I was in college, believe it or not. It's a little bit unusual. So I ran cross country and track. And I think this was my junior year going into my senior year. One of my teammates and I, we were told a story about the Cincinnati marathon, which was like an hour away from where we went to school. And we were just kind of curious about it. You know, that was a time when I did not understand how far
Sarah Gearhart (07:49.078)
a marathon actually was. And when you run cross country, what is that? Like a 5k, it's so different. And so we were just kind of curious to see if we could do it. And so we went off and trained together. And at the time we didn't inform our coach until like after we did it. It wasn't too happy about that, but it was a really unique experience to run a marathon in college. It made me really, really dislike running actually, because it was so painful. You've run a marathon, yeah?
Tyson (08:03.628)
Mm-hmm
Tyson (08:15.212)
Hehehehehehe
Tyson (08:19.265)
I have, and it's nothing that you want to hear about. I'm actually training for a marathon now, which I'm hoping makes it a more impressive story because my first one was, and my audience is so sick of me hearing me just moan about my first experience. A long answer to a short question. Yes, I have. And I don't like to talk about that one because it was a, it was very humbling.
Sarah Gearhart (08:39.614)
Okay, so that's a really good way to explain it. Everyone's first marathon experience, you don't forget how painful it feels. You really don't. And also like the mental torture it can do to your mind. I just was not prepared for that. And I was just kind of questioning like, do I really want to ever go through this again? And I actually thought no way do I ever want to run another marathon.
Sarah Gearhart (09:07.502)
So it took like a couple of years before I kind of forgot about that and then I ended up doing another one and since then I've done 14 total.
Tyson (09:19.253)
It's so funny how it just keeps bringing you back for more reason. I can see the appeal for something so painful on your first attempt and even, you know, on the mini marathons after that, it blows my mind. How many people still love it. There's something about that. Um, I'm not sure. It sounds like the way you explained to early stages with your writing that you liked that structure and you like that scaffold a little bit in your day just to help you work well. I like the, that planning element. That's been my favorite experience with the, I'm doing a marathon in October over here and it's the Melbourne marathon. And what I've loved about it is
Sarah Gearhart (09:45.751)
Yeah.
Tyson (09:48.945)
I do a lot of coaching and I love setting the programs for the athletes that I coach. But one thing I miss every time I write a program, especially for my marathon runners, is I miss that personal structure in my day-to-day life. So that's been one thing that, I mean, I've got elements of it with work and things like that, but it seems so black and white with a lot of the running. It's like, all right, well, if you want to run a marathon, you have to do your weekly long run. And it's just, I feel like it serves for me as a nice reminder of what's required to do it well.
Sarah Gearhart (10:14.91)
Yeah, definitely. Yeah. I mean, the structure is nice. The routine is nice. But also, if I'm going to be running your like 50 miles a week, I want to put that towards something and not just like go out and do it kind of mindlessly. Cause I just, I like to have something that I'm working toward. Otherwise it's kind of feels like, what's the point? So yeah.
Tyson (10:33.314)
Yeah, it's so much easier to train when you've got that goal in mind, isn't it?
Sarah Gearhart (10:36.878)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And also, I think I've always really savored that feeling of being on a start line with, you know, so many people in your crown, there's that really special energy that I can't even fully describe it in words. But I've always said that I wish I could bottle that feeling and share it with someone who doesn't understand the sport. So you know, it's really lovely. And even though it's like so small, and it's so brief.
Sarah Gearhart (11:05.942)
That's like enough. I mean, that makes it all worth it. Yeah.
Tyson (11:10.213)
Yeah, it really does. That's a good way to put it. Yeah, I often hear people say that with running, that if you could just bottle the experience and pass it to someone, it'd be a pretty highly sought after drug. It's very true. So it's interesting just to get a little bit of a background and obviously I've had the opportunity to know you're coming on here and hear a little bit more about your thoughts and everything that's gone into it. So I understand that there's a little bit of a collision of two worlds for lack of a better expression between your running and your writing.
Sarah Gearhart (11:18.891)
Yeah.
Tyson (11:38.253)
everything that goes into doing either of those two well. So it's, it's no surprise to me. I don't think hearing about your venture into the world of Kenya and particularly that of Patrick saying, but I thought you're going to do a lot better job of explaining sort of what it was that lured you into this particular topic. Because as we say, running's like a relatively unique world. Like when you get inside of it, it feels big, but from the outside, not a lot of people know much about running. And then.
Tyson (12:06.673)
you get more specific in your head to Africa, which is where the best of the best, especially on the East Coast or Kenya more specifically. And that's a smaller world still, but a small world where some of the highest quality, not only athletes, but from what I've read in your book, just people spend their time, spend their days training. I mean, it's a beautiful topic to write about, but what was it that sort of drew you towards, you know, what turned out to be, we share the sun?
Sarah Gearhart (12:32.938)
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean definitely unique. Okay, so over the years I've had the opportunity to profile interview runners from East Africa, mainly Kenya. And it was in 2017 I believe when I had the opportunity to follow Emmanuel Mutai at the Boston Marathon, who was at the time he was the number one entrant in the field and I got to go behind the scenes and follow him over the course of the weekend. And.
Sarah Gearhart (13:01.794)
Just in conversation with him, I was just so curious what life in Kenya was actually like. It's really different when you're sitting across from someone and they have a conversation about it. They tell you like, oh, there are a lot of tea plantations and running at altitude, et cetera, uphill, et cetera. But I wanted to see it for myself and really kind of understand the culture a little bit. And so it was always in the back of my mind.
Sarah Gearhart (13:29.614)
to go to Kenya and do something in depth. And to be honest, I really do think that there's a shortage of journalistic narratives about top runners from East Africa. I just find that when they're profiled, it's more like it's always about their athletic endeavors and not so much the human interest side. And that's more of what I wanted to explore. And when I was thinking about...
Sarah Gearhart (13:59.282)
this book and how I wanted to go about telling the story of Coach Tseng. Well, initially the idea was a little bit different, so I did kind of pivot for the book a little bit. I wanted to do a whole book on profiles of runners from East Africa, but my literary agent at the time didn't really think that was engaging enough, and so I thought, okay, well, who's behind the talent? And so as I was researching...
Sarah Gearhart (14:29.842)
Of course, Coach Sang Sane came up and I didn't really know that much about him to be perfectly honest and there isn't that much information about him online. But as I was reading about the fact that he was a collegiate athlete at the University of Texas in the mid-80s, I was like, whoa, that's got to be, I bet he has like a million interesting stories because what was it like to be, you know, coming from Kenya to Texas of all places in the world?
Tyson (14:58.341)
Thank you.
Sarah Gearhart (14:59.134)
in the mid 80s, like, whoa, I need to know so many things right now. And also the fact that, you know, he is self-coached to two world championships and two Olympics. I was like, that's wild. I need to know so much more. And not only did he compete in two Olympics, he also medaled. This was in 1992 in Barcelona when Kenya swept the podium in the Steeplechase. And so I thought, wow, like he, not only is he phenomenal.
Sarah Gearhart (15:29.07)
coach, he was also a phenomenal athlete, which I think is like pretty rare. And so I just, oh my gosh, my mind was spinning with questions. And so I had this idea, like I've got to, I've got to know him better and we had a mutual contact. And so I reached out to this contact and I explained to him, this is what I want to do. And he was pretty frank about coach saying as a really private person, I can't say that he will agree to this, but I will
Sarah Gearhart (15:59.018)
relay your idea to him. And then long story short, he coached saying wanted me to present the idea in more detail. So like I actually sent him a an outline a full like chapter outline, a timeline as well. And my proposal was like close to 50 pages. So it was pretty, I was pretty, I had a lot of direction, I'll just say like I knew exactly what I wanted to do. So
Sarah Gearhart (16:28.198)
In wanting to understand who Coach Singh was, I also wanted to explore the culture of elite distance running in Kenya and, you know, sort of offer a behind the scenes glimpse into that world that I think is kind of misrepresented or misunderstood in Western media, sometimes oversimplified. So really, I just kind of wanted to be there and immerse myself in just...
Sarah Gearhart (16:57.358)
kind of get a better understanding, better feel on what it's actually like there. Because it's one thing to read pretty briefly in an article versus to go there and to kind of like live that lifestyle. Yeah, it was quite unique.
Tyson (17:13.353)
Yeah, yeah. When you say that the, um, the lifestyle over there is, is oversimplified in Western media. What do you think some of the things that we, we skipped completely over are? Like I, I can imagine there's so many things for the sake of brevity. Um, but, uh, it'd just be interesting to hear from someone who's, who's spent so much time over there now, especially working so closely with, you know, Patrick Sang and the athletes that are under him. What would you, what would you say the main standout points that are oversimplified here?
Sarah Gearhart (17:43.09)
Okay, well more like a myth that actually came up in my first interview with him, like one on one, which is like a four hour conversation. Okay, so like there's this myth about Kenyans are so good because they just run back and forth to school. He like flat out squashed that he was like, no, no. I mean, I definitely encountered some school children who walked barefoot to school, but like, you know, there's this idea that that's where the talent comes from.
Tyson (17:56.661)
Ha ha ha!
Sarah Gearhart (18:11.542)
comes from, which when you think about it, it's like kind of ridiculous. There's so many other things that go into the reasons why they dominate so well. But there's that. Yeah.
Tyson (18:24.201)
Yeah. So within those 50 pages of that first draft of that proposal that you sent to Patrick St. when you look at the end result, is it pretty closely tied to what it was that you originally thought that you were going to be speaking to him about and working with him on?
Sarah Gearhart (18:36.11)
Oh yeah, totally. I use like 90% of that material in the actual book. Because when you write a proposal, at least from my perspective, it's like you're writing it as if it's going into the book. So I definitely put a lot of work into that. It was like real writing for the book. So, yeah.
Tyson (18:54.525)
Yeah. And so how long at a time did you spend in Kenya? Did you make multiple trips? Cause I can imagine when you're stepping into any new culture, it can be, uh, I always liked the feeling of getting bored in a place because when you get bored in a place, I feel as though you start to get a little bit of a sense of what it's like in the day to day life. Like my wife and I've done quite a lot of travel and, um, yeah, it's sure. It's nice to dip your toes into a place and dip out and do the touristy stuff. But I love the idea of going to a place. Actually.
Sarah Gearhart (19:07.726)
Hehehe
Tyson (19:22.513)
being immersed there, getting a little bit bored, finding out where the locals eat, where the locals drink, what they do during their day. Just really, I feel like that's where I get a better grasp of what a culture's like. Did it take you a little while to get a real feel for it there? Because I can imagine, you know, coming from New York City to the Rift Valley in Kenya, talk about culture shock. It must be just a different world.
Sarah Gearhart (19:31.776)
Yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (19:41.418)
Yes and no. I mean, here's the thing, like I really love traveling and I've had the opportunity to travel all over the world for some of my projects. And so I like to think that I answer in an environment with an open mind and not like there to judge in any particular way, but more like the sponge and soak up everything. I took two trips. They were, they were extended trips though. So my first one was seven weeks. And then my second one was six months, which is quite a while.
Sarah Gearhart (20:09.57)
But the thing is why we chose to be there for extended periods is because it's, you know, it's difficult to get to that part of Kenya. Not only is the flight long, it's also you fly. Oh, I flew from New York to Nairobi and then you either have to stay overnight or stay up and then take another flight to Eldoret and then you drive like almost an hour to get to that area. So you know, my point is like it's a, it's a lot of effort to get there.
Sarah Gearhart (20:39.346)
And so I just couldn't imagine like going back and forth like a week at a time, week at a time, like what that would do to like my body and productivity. And it's actually like a really cool place to, to station yourself because it's a lovely environment, especially as a runner. I mean, of course I appreciated that, but I was around some really lovely people. So I didn't mind at all. But, um, you know, that being said to also add to your comment, I don't really believe in.
Sarah Gearhart (21:09.398)
visiting somewhere for just like a few days because that to me is like a superficial engagement. And you don't really get to know a place unless you actually immerse yourself in it and live the day-to-day lifestyle and talk to the locals and just be there and kind of observe, I'm very observant. I tend to be really quiet, which I think people kind of mistake is being shy. And maybe I can be a little bit shy, but it's really because I'm
Sarah Gearhart (21:39.214)
Observing like looking at every single detail I possibly can down to I mean, this is really like Detail but like how that person shoes are tied. What color are the shoelaces? Expressions on their faces, etc. Like I pay attention to everything I will make note of everything because the idea is I want to paint what I'm seeing in words That's what writing is you're painting with words. I think it really is an art form
Sarah Gearhart (22:08.786)
And so if I want to do that, then I really need to be in it. I really need to be in my research, in my work. And I can't do that if I'm just kinda slipping into an environment for a few days and I'm not really engaging with the people with the culture, if that makes any sense.
Tyson (22:09.1)
Hmm.
Tyson (22:27.497)
Oh, it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, no, I totally agree. I think you just said what I was trying to say, but far more eloquently. That was a really good, it's a really good breakdown of exactly what I think the beauty of extended travel is. So, so when you went there, I know you said you made two trips and feel free to pick whichever one to, to answer this question, but in terms of immersing yourself in a culture like that, where does that even begin? Because I can imagine that the, the day to day running, especially the camp.
Sarah Gearhart (22:33.487)
laughs
Tyson (22:54.893)
element of the training in Kenya is very different to a lot of the day to day, you know, non-camp elements of Kenya. Did you go there with a bit of an itinerary of what to do each day? Or was it a matter of just finding your feet when you were there and getting into a bit of a rhythm? Because I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of an athlete and from the perspective of an author, like obviously you've got to try and get your foot in the door of what they're doing as athletes so you can write about it more accurately. But then.
Tyson (23:24.037)
I can also imagine it'd be an awkward experience just for a stranger to the area to come in and just like, Oh, now I'm here and I'm here for six months. Um, so how did you, how did you make that balance? And, uh, you know, I guess get into a rhythm of what they're doing on a day to day sort of level.
Sarah Gearhart (23:39.542)
Yeah, yeah. So I wasn't, so the campus actually, Global Sports Communication campus in Captegat, and I was actually based in Eaton. And that was because Captegat isn't quite developed for foreigners like myself to go live there. It's very local. It's like a village. And Eaton, you know, like over the years, it has become more and more developed, developed quote unquote.
Sarah Gearhart (24:06.39)
because a lot of, well, I can only speak to what I experienced. When I was there, I was around a lot of elite European runners, Olympians, like my neighbor was an Olympic marathoner, two doors down was another Olympic marathoner from Europe. And so it was just kind of strange to be in an environment where it's like local Kenyans and then Western.
Sarah Gearhart (24:34.586)
to cater to elite athletes who go there and kind of take advantage of the climate. So I would commute back and forth is my point. So I didn't like live in Katka. I would commute back and forth. It was about 45 minutes and I would get up at 4 or 5 a.m. on the days that I would go to the camp. Yeah. But I didn't find it awkward at all. I was there, like I said, to learn and absorb and
Sarah Gearhart (25:04.202)
observe and because I already had a 50 page outline I knew my direction and so I knew what I was doing. It wasn't like me waking up in the morning and oh what should I do today? I always had an agenda and if anything in terms of writing I always gave myself like word count deadlines for the day. So it was very clear.
Sarah Gearhart (25:34.006)
My point. Yes.
Tyson (25:35.977)
Yeah. And then within those days, I combined of what interviews, observation, how many conversations do you have with Patrick saying, or is it a balance of conversation and just observation? I would just love to know because obviously, um, and I've heard you describe him really nicely. Yeah. You say for many athletes, like it's more than just a running coach. And I think in the West, the idea of a life coach can sometimes be a little bit corny. We think of.
Tyson (26:02.833)
I mean, as much as I love him and a controversial statement, Tony Robbins has got a mixed reputation amongst a lot of people. It can be a, uh, I don't know. I just think it's a little bit of a corny scene, especially here in Australia. But the way you, you described Patrick saying is a way that I think I describe a lot of the, especially my final coach, Adam Diddick. He's an Olympic coach here in Australia. And one thing I loved about him was he's a close friend of mine that had a, not only a great knowledge, but a great passion for performance in the sport of distance running.
Tyson (26:32.081)
But beyond that, he wouldn't let you get away with things in your outside life, which could play an impact on your running performance. And for example, he pulled me aside plenty of times when I was 19 and started training with him. Just giving me general advice on structuring finances and getting a little bit of clarity about career and explaining to me that running is gonna be in your life for another 15 years at a competitive level. So beyond that, you're not gonna fund your life with distance running. And there's a lucky few. And the way you described Sang sounds like,
Tyson (27:01.701)
him working with the best athletes in the world. So I don't know if you could speak to that idea of him being a coach and a life coach for lack of a better phrase.
Sarah Gearhart (27:11.05)
Yeah, I mean, that's exactly it. So I wanna read this quote.
Sarah Gearhart (27:18.018)
What is that?
Tyson (27:18.118)
I mean, it sounds beautiful. I reckon it's the platform that we're using has the option.
Sarah Gearhart (27:25.23)
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
Tyson (27:27.234)
What are you doing? We're doing a meditation together.
Sarah Gearhart (27:30.77)
Okay, so that's funny. So like side note, you're gonna have to cut that out. Maybe not cut it out, cause it's like real me. I usually put on a sound bath every morning unlike Spotify. That's how I start my morning, put on this 30 minutes.
Tyson (27:42.909)
That sounded awesome! What was it, the spirit itself?
Sarah Gearhart (27:45.918)
No, no, no. I don't know. Well, this is like after the sound bath, like this automatically plays. So now you know, like I'm kind of like a spiritual person and I love sound baths. Like that's part of my life. A sound bath is, it's like when you're like kind of, well, you can do it. You can do it multiple ways. In yoga, you lay on the mat and like you, it's like singing bowls and the gong and things like that. And it does something to your brain.
Tyson (27:56.645)
I've never heard the phrase sound. What is a sound birth?
Sarah Gearhart (28:16.606)
Yeah, it's for select.
Tyson (28:17.327)
like a hum at the end of a yoga session.
Sarah Gearhart (28:20.006)
No, it's more than that. You can Google it. Like we're like getting off topic and I'll also send you this. A boy.
Tyson (28:24.389)
I'm gonna Google it and I've told everyone that I'm gonna be speaking to you about Patrick Sang and the Kenyan athletes and now people are getting walked through a guided sound bath. I mean, it's interesting, but for you, that is your own personal. That was awesome.
Sarah Gearhart (28:32.398)
Yes, yes, yes
Tyson (28:40.861)
Did you want me to ask the question again? Because I mean, that was a curve ball for you. We were just getting into, oh yeah, you got it?
Sarah Gearhart (28:46.899)
Okay, yeah, so in terms of Patrick Tseng being more than just an athletic coach, that is very, very true. And there's this quote from an interview he did with World Athletics that I think really summarizes your point and my point. And I'll just read it to you. It says, the whole idea is to make these athletes an all-around person. We encourage them to have dialogues and interact with each other to grow.
Sarah Gearhart (29:12.438)
and encourage the development of different skills. You don't want to make an athlete who is great at running, but then comes to, when it comes to social skills, they're like monsters or superstars who are out of touch with the real society. And his coaching methods, yes, they have been described as having a holistic approach, and I think holistic can be kind of overused.
Sarah Gearhart (29:37.654)
But you know, in his mind, this is something that I wrote in the book, in his mind, an athlete is not simply an athlete. You know, he wants to, he wants every athlete to consider who are you? Like that's the root of the question. Because at the end of the day, an athlete's life is very short. So like, what are you going to do after you leave the sport? So you know, there's also this lovely question that I also put in the book is if you take athletics and have a human being, what is left? What is left?
Sarah Gearhart (30:07.126)
And I think that's really important to think about. Like how do you want to stand in the world? And running is not entirely who you are, it's just something that you do. So, like how do you want to contribute beyond, you know, this thing that you do? If that makes sense.
Tyson (30:25.565)
Yeah, it does. I listened to a really good interview with Ali Kipchoge on, I think it's called feel good, live more podcasts. It's with a British guy and he speaks to a number of elite athletes. And what struck me before I knew any of this about Ali Kipchoge was he, um, he seemed like an avid reader and an avid journalist, an avid journal keeper. And he, he wrote and he reflected and he, I mean, it's perhaps no surprise for the best athlete, you know, the marathon world's ever seen. But he just seemed to be.
Tyson (30:55.949)
a really detailed person, not only around his training, but around his life. Like you were speaking about how he's always got a book on the go and he would take notes. And, uh, I thought, uh, over the course of an hour and a half, I was like, oh, man, okay, so you're so much more than just an athlete. Like, is that, I bet you some of that would be, um, you know, personality and a real personal interest in whatever it is that he's doing, but would you say, cause you've rubbed shoulders and done some interviews with Elliot himself. Like, is, is that something that.
Tyson (31:24.557)
you think comes from Patrick Tsang or is that more of an individual thing? Yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (31:27.502)
For sure.
Sarah Gearhart (31:30.094)
So you know, Elliot, and this is written about in media and also shared with me that he doesn't really know his father and Patrick Tseng has been a figure of sorts to him. You know, they've known each other since he was a teen. And so that relationship has been very formative. And I always say like, people look at Elliot and they call him, he's been referred to as like Yoda, Yoda-like. But then I say like, well, you know why he's like that? Because of who?
Sarah Gearhart (32:00.066)
who he's been coached by. So just imagine, if you think Elliot is that way, just imagine having a conversation with Patrick saying, I just remember my first in-person conversation, I just wanted to quote every other sentence because some people just have that thing about them where everything they say, it just strikes you, right? And he's one of those people. And I just remember within the first 10 minutes of the conversation, I got goosebumps on my arms because I was like,
Sarah Gearhart (32:29.646)
This is going to be a really cool book. In regards to Elliot and the whole topic of Coach Zang wanting his athletes to be more than athletes, later in the book I talk about Elliot's advocacy for the environment, environmental conservation. I'm like, how many athletes do you know that are stepping into that space in the way that he has done and continues to do?
Sarah Gearhart (32:58.686)
November 2021, he actually attended the UN climate change conference in Scotland with the president of Kenya at the time. And he actually spoke on behalf of Kenya representing Africa's voice on the climate crisis. And I think that's what I mean about being more than just an athlete and contributing something of greater value. How many professional athletes do we know of that are
Sarah Gearhart (33:28.418)
taking that step. I think he's a really good role model in that regard.
Tyson (33:32.853)
Yeah. Does he have a little bit of a framework that he, I don't know if it's this black and white and I can imagine a bloke as wise as Patrick saying probably has multiple frameworks, but in terms of working with a guy like Elliot Kipchoge outside of running, what, what kind of coaching is he giving, or is it just through, it's not so structured. It's just through their years of conversation and guidance that, um, this more, you know, you said it lack of a better word, holistic approach to training and life comes from.
Sarah Gearhart (33:58.962)
Yeah, yeah. You mean like what other what else contributes to developing the whole person?
Tyson (34:04.117)
Yeah, I was just interested to know whether he sat down and said, all right, like today we're going to have a structured conversation around finance and around mindset and around, or is it just throughout the years of conversation? Do these lessons just, of course, yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (34:13.154)
It's throughout, certainly throughout. One thing that I didn't put in the book that I actually thought was really interesting, I feel like anytime I meet up with him, he always tells me another story, like why didn't you tell me that earlier and I could have integrated into the book. I feel like I need a part two. But anyway, one thing he shared with me that I thought was so interesting, because you know he has a degree in economics, is he wanted to start like an investment club at the camp. But that's something that he didn't get around to doing.
Tyson (34:28.144)
Hahaha!
Sarah Gearhart (34:43.062)
How many athletes are we aware of or sports teams are we aware of that have this investment club so that they can engage in conversations, do conversations about finance and stocks and such? I thought it was really clever. I think it's really interesting too, the way that his mind works.
Tyson (34:53.001)
Hehehehe
Tyson (35:03.237)
Yeah, yeah, it's so true. One of the things you've mentioned throughout the book as well is this idea of simplicity. And I feel like just talking to you for even half an hour at the moment, I can see how this is something that you would really appreciate. Cause you strike me as the kind of person who you seem very clear on what it is that you're trying to achieve with your projects. And I mean, the fact that a meditation app broke out halfway through this podcast, I guess I'm probably on the money a little bit, but I...
Sarah Gearhart (35:05.335)
Ehh
Tyson (35:31.073)
I was lucky enough, I'm friends with, I don't know if you know, Brian Nicodemus, he's one half of the minimalist. I don't know if I call him a friend, but I've spent a little bit of time with him when he was here in Australia. We've associates at the very least. And that came about because I was so fascinated by him and the work that the minimalist do and how much they've changed my life and how much just an approach of simplicity in my own life, not only offers like clarity of mind, but also
Tyson (35:57.969)
you know, confidence in what it is that I'm actually putting my time and attention towards. And as I was reading and as I keep reading about this idea of simplicity just coming up in the day to day life, I thought, well, it seems as no surprise that these guys are the best in the world because the first thing that you're going to want to need is at least the clarity that this is what you're actually pursuing. But then from, and I've never been there, so correct me if I'm wrong, but especially the camps, it looks as though they're tailored towards eliminating a whole heap of just the chaos.
Tyson (36:26.385)
That day-to-day life can throw at you so you can be more focused on what it is that you're pursuing. So I guess I was in that long monologue. I guess I'm trying to say, can you speak to the idea of simplicity in the, the day-to-day life of an elite Kenyan athlete?
Sarah Gearhart (36:39.858)
Yeah, I mean, I can only speak to what I observed and experienced at Google Sports Communication, training camp and CapsCat, but surely there is something to be said about the impact on productivity when you remove distractions. And, you know, it's very remote there. So you can't just like run off and do X, Y, and Z because you rather don't have the opportunity. It's like not exposed to you or it just takes a lot of effort to commute somewhere.
Sarah Gearhart (37:10.274)
And in fact, this is something that I mentioned later in the book, but there is an elite female marathoner at the camp, Sally Tobiego, who said that she really appreciates being there because when she's at home, she has three kids, she's not being bombarded by visitors, be it family or friends who want to pop by her house and like...
Sarah Gearhart (37:36.002)
you know, engage in some kind of entertainment and then like it makes it harder to recover and you know, get her training done. It's like that. So like when they're at the camp, it's the same thing you would experience when you leave your house and go to an office except like their office is, is training. It's like that. Like they're, they're able to focus because they don't have all these other distractions. And so yeah, that's why they're there six days a week. Yeah.
Tyson (38:01.929)
And how are they structuring those days? I imagine like for a Faith Gipyagin and an Ali Gipchogo, the sessions are gonna be quite different, and especially the distances that athletes like this are running. But is there a little bit of a scaffold to how Patrick has the daily training life structure?
Sarah Gearhart (38:19.446)
Yeah, so it can only speak to what I experienced when I would go on, it was either like a Tuesday or a Thursday. So Tuesday was like track, a track session and that was at, that was actually on site. So they, the camp, there was a dirt track that was constructed during the pandemic. And so it's short of 400 meters though. So like they would do their, their track sessions there on Tuesdays.
Sarah Gearhart (38:48.866)
just being there, like showing up and like seeing so many people going this way, that way, this way, that way. It's like Shibuya Crossing in Tokyo. It just kind of makes sense. Everyone's going a different direction and no one gets in the way and it just kind of makes sense because so the training sessions weren't just the athletes from the camp. There were people from outside too who would join them. And so yeah, it was it was unique to see.
Sarah Gearhart (39:18.178)
But yeah, so on a Tuesday session, everyone is doing something different. There were always multiple groups, yeah, following whatever program he had assigned to them. And then on Thursday would be a long run around Cap to Gat. And usually there were different groups for that as well, depending on the pace. But I did see, I saw Faith do a really long.
Sarah Gearhart (39:44.566)
run one day was, I think it was in December, it was like 40 something K. It was like 40 K. Yeah. Yes, I did. Yeah.
Tyson (39:51.301)
Oh my goodness. Did you watch her 1500 world record the other day? Oh my gosh. I'm so jealous that you've been able to rub shoulders with some of these people. That was an unbelievable performance, huh? That was crazy. It was crazy to see Jess Hull, who's the Australian record holder. She finished third in that race. It was wild that she was eight seconds behind and that was just the most unbelievable run. The other thing, and I think this sort of comes under the umbrella of
Sarah Gearhart (40:02.934)
Yeah, for sure. I mean, she's just something else. Yeah, very impressive.
Tyson (40:21.113)
of simplicity potentially is that over here, like there's constantly a new Garmin watch coming out. There's new blood monitoring systems. There's new shoes. And I understand that like people like Elliot Kipchoga have access to all of this stuff because I've seen him wear it. In fact, a lot of the time it's where I hear about these new products. But I've seen a number of documentaries. I've read your book. I've heard you speak on this a little bit. The idea of gadgets doesn't seem to be a real obsession with the Kenyan athletes that you've worked with. I mean,
Tyson (40:49.605)
There's so many athletes that I coach and this isn't a knock at them by any means, but there's a real obsession with heart rate and with the technology and with the recovery. And I mean, I'm a fan of it. I see where it comes from. I see where the interest comes from, but sometimes the idea of success leaving clues can be, Hey, sometimes you just got to leave your, um, you know, that analytical mind to the side and let your body just go out and do its thing. And that's the vibe that I get from the Kenyans that you've written about. They're not as obsessed with the gadgets as what we are.
Tyson (41:17.629)
They're more obsessed with, you know, just doing the work well and then recovering and then repeating that process.
Sarah Gearhart (41:24.826)
It's a good formula. Hard work. Yeah. You know, okay, so I can't speak for everybody, but in my experience, you know, I tend to get really anxious if I am running or racing with the watch and look at it and then that number gets into my head and then I can like unravel or whatever. And I actually, I used to have a Tom and I ended up just like throwing it away. And I didn't replay a Tom Tom. It's a watch. Yeah.
Tyson (41:48.637)
What's a tum tum?
Sarah Gearhart (41:53.962)
And now I don't even wear a watch. I don't even have one, believe it or not. So if I do wanna track my run, I just have an app on my phone, but I don't look at it because I run with a water bottle that has a pocket and so it's in there. So I'm not distracted in that way. But everyone is different. I'm not saying that there's one way to approach the sport. And if it works for you, then it works for you. But that being said, running is a very pure sport.
Sarah Gearhart (42:21.326)
And you know, at the end of the day, you can do a lot with just a pair of shoes. So it's true.
Tyson (42:27.917)
That's a really good point. It's a really good point. It just serves as such a good reminder because even myself, I find it fun to go out with, look, I've got it right here. I find it fun to go out with my garment and come home and look at the splits and convince myself that I'm in the best form of all time and that my breakthrough is coming. Even though I'm 36 and training three times a week. But yeah, I find that opposite side of that really true as well. Just getting out there in a pair of shoes. And in Australia, they like to encourage a pair of shorts as well.
Sarah Gearhart (42:44.715)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tyson (42:55.089)
But with the pair of shoes and a pair of shorts, you can go out there and get so much hard work done and see the breakthroughs. And it just alleviates so much of the stress that can come with that over analytical approach to whatever it is that you're training for.
Sarah Gearhart (43:07.71)
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Or for analytical. That's very true. You know, another thing to for people to understand is, uh, it's not like the local runners are exposed to these things, you know, and it's very expensive. A lot of these tech gadgets are very expensive. So I think the lack of obsession is like lack of exposure and like a lack of like financial means to actually buy them.
Sarah Gearhart (43:36.83)
So that's also something to understand as well.
Tyson (43:42.033)
Yeah. Hey, just because this is something unique to you and it's not necessarily a core part of the book, I was just interested to hear from your personal perspective, what's it like sitting with a bloke like Ali Kipchoge and having a conversation about running and life. Is that intimidating to you? Exciting? You spend enough time with it that it's not a big deal anymore.
Sarah Gearhart (44:01.486)
I mean, I wouldn't say it's not a big deal, but you know, I've been interviewing professional athletes my entire career, and at the end of the day, they're all human beings. And I just imagine that they really appreciate having a quote-unquote normal conversation and being engaged in a normal way. I think he's a tremendous athlete, and I certainly I always appreciated sitting down with him.
Sarah Gearhart (44:31.61)
And he has a special energy. Some people, they just have this really calming, interesting energy about them. I can't quite put that into words. I'm not describing it well. But yeah, same with Coach saying, certain people, they walk into a room and you just kind of notice them, right? Because they have this unique thing about them and he's like that, sure.
Tyson (44:51.961)
Yeah, that's so true. I always, I always wonder with those situations because if I ever meet someone that I admire or look up to, I always definitely notice that aura and I can never figure out if that aura or that energy is because I respect and admire them so much or whether they just give that off, even if they were just a random person from the street. I don't know if you got any thoughts on that.
Sarah Gearhart (45:11.542)
Yeah, I mean, some people are unique in that way. You know, I was recently in Jamaica and Usain Bolt showed up at this track meet, which I was really hoping he would do because I didn't, I haven't had it. I hadn't had a chance to meet him in person yet. And the moment he showed up, at least two dozen media surrounded him. And I actually felt kind of bad for him because here's someone who is in his home country and he just wants to come and have a good time and he can't take one step without a camera on his face. But, you know.
Sarah Gearhart (45:39.466)
He's using bolts, so it's kind of like that just comes with the territory. Um, so, but I did, I did beat him and, um, I, I did get.
Tyson (45:49.646)
I saw your Instagram photo with him actually. That's a great photo.
Sarah Gearhart (45:53.166)
That was cool. He's lovely. I would love to have a deeper conversation with him another time in the near future. I hope that happens. But yeah, my point is, certain people, they just carry this unique vibe about them that makes people go crazy at the sight of them.
Tyson (46:14.865)
Yeah, yeah, like my wife with Harry Styles. Ha ha ha.
Sarah Gearhart (46:19.095)
What I think is interesting is if you encounter an athlete or maybe an actor who has been really successful and done remarkable things, people just want to touch that person, touch their arm just to make sure that they're human or real. I think that's kind of funny. They just want to shake your hand and poke you. I've seen that. It's kind of strange. Yes, they are a person. Yes.
Tyson (46:38.953)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
Tyson (46:44.882)
I know we're sort of limited for time. It was getting late in your evening over there in Mexico City, but there was a couple of quick things that I wanted to throw at you to hear your thoughts on this. The one thing that always strikes me about Kenyan athletes that I never see here in Australia, don't see much in America, is that whether an athlete finishes first or second, despite the competitiveness, you'll often see second place running across the line and celebrating as hard as the first place winner.
Tyson (47:08.621)
And I mean, it's beautiful to watch, but I don't think I've ever finished second behind a teammate and celebrated for him because the truth is I'm not that happy for him, I wanted to beat him and I know that speaks more to my character than it does to anything else, but I'm imagining like, I know every athlete in Kenya is not coached by Patrick saying, but this community vibe or this idea of paying it forward and celebrating the, those around you, like the successors of the community that you spend time training and running with it. I don't know that it's just a unique.
Sarah Gearhart (47:19.662)
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe
Tyson (47:38.885)
It's a unique thing that I don't see any others do apart from Ethiopians in canyons.
Sarah Gearhart (47:44.766)
Yeah, so okay. There was something that I witnessed before a long training run one time in Kenya, where the group gathered and Coach Sang called out a couple of runners who had just returned from Europe after they competed in, I think it was the Paris Marathon, another race as well. One was a woman, another was a male, and everyone clapped for them.
Sarah Gearhart (48:14.434)
and they celebrated. I think one woman finished. She wasn't, she didn't win it. I think she was like top five, top three, I don't recall. But they were there like celebrating that was a victory. That was considered a victory. And I think that's really lovely. I mean, why not be happy for other people? Um, and okay, so let me just explain to you the meaning of the title.
Sarah Gearhart (48:41.782)
The meaning of the title is not meant to be so literal, which I know people are going to misinterpret. But really it relates to this concept of Ubuntu. If you're familiar with that, it means, well, it relates to unity of purpose, caring for one another. And you know, Coach Sang says he describes it as a very rich human value. And I think that it's important to understand at the end of the day, we are all part of a greater whole.
Sarah Gearhart (49:11.986)
And I really appreciate the concept principles of solidarity and compassion and respect. And you know, those are all principles that I wanted to weave into the book. That's what I noticed. The way his athletes operate, the way that he is. And you know, We Share the Sun, I think it's really unexpected as well for a sports title. And it's, it was meant, it was meant for, I want people to really like think about it, ruminate about it.
Sarah Gearhart (49:41.447)
Yeah.
Tyson (49:42.277)
It was so cool. That's funny you say that because before I knew anything about what it meant, I thought that is an unreal title. And I think it helps. I was going to ask you about who did the cover as well. Cause the cover is, is awesome. Like it just stands out. It looks unbelievable.
Sarah Gearhart (49:56.338)
Yeah, so it was a design firm in Portland, but I remember waking up and seeing the email of here's the sample and I was kind of like crossing my fingers that it would be nice because you don't always, I had reference photos that I shared, you don't always know what people are going to understand what you want. And so I remember opening the file and like, oh God, it felt like a present. It felt like I was opening a present. Yeah.
Sarah Gearhart (50:24.882)
I really love art and design and I want to try to cross-pollinate that with sports writing as much as I can. I think it's a really beautiful cover. I love it. I really love it.
Tyson (50:25.018)
It looks awesome.
Tyson (50:41.561)
Yeah, well for everyone listening who hasn't got their hands on it yet, I'm gonna link it in the description below. Is there a preference to where you want people to buy? I don't know, I know it's everywhere, but is it better to buy from your website? Is it better buy from Amazon or just go buy it wherever you get it from?
Sarah Gearhart (50:54.786)
wherever you get it from, but you know, I always like to say if you can support your local bookshop, do that. Yeah. Hehehehehe.
Tyson (51:01.649)
Awesome. Sarah, you're an absolute legend. I'm really pumped. I know you said that you got a project or a proposal in the works at the moment. So I'm excited that you're now on my radar and my audience's radar. It's really exciting. The book was unbelievable. The cover's unbelievable. The story's amazing. So I really appreciate you stopping by and sharing some of the stories from the writing process and the trips themselves.
Sarah Gearhart (51:24.45)
Thanks so much for the opportunity. I had a lovely time speaking with you. I really appreciate it.
Tyson (51:29.309)
Hey, right back at you. I'll leave you to it. I'll see you later, everybody. Awesome, and I'll cut that off there. That was lots of fun.