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Join James Petrossi in 'Leave the Feed: 30 Days of Disconnect' as he interviews creators and mental health advocates about their journeys, the digital quagmire, and tips to create a healthier relationship with social media.
[00:00:00]
Dylan Huey: . Welcome back to Leave the Feed, 30 Days of Disconnect. Before we dive into kind of the topic of this podcast, which is becoming the Observer why don't you tell us first and foremost what inspired you to start, Leave the Feed well as obviously like we have Leave the Feed in multiple formats. Now we have the book. So what inspired you to start the book and then, what inspired you to start this podcast? That's in tandem with the book
James Petrossi: You know, Leave the Feed. It came to me, right? It came to me like really strong as this, like powerful lightning bolt. And I think I. For my own self, I grew up in the world of marketing and sales strategy. And in that world you're examining human behavior. So I grew up sort of be being the observer [00:01:00] of culture and people.
You know, I was working for some of the most addictive categories in the world, tobacco, alcohol, and how do we activate those product categories across culture. You know, when you're working in those product categories, especially tobacco, you become really obsessed with rituals.
So as you're going through that, you start looking at how people play with their packs.
When do they smoke? Why do they smoke? And. You know, sometimes it's to enhance social connection. Sometimes it's to mark the passage of time, like waiting for a bus. Other times it's just to recharge, you know, after lunch. So I started looking at all these like habits and rituals, and at the same time, social media was starting to proliferate.
You know, all that's happening. Social media's coming in, brands are wanting to use social media, so obviously it's something that everyone's exploring, right?
And as people are exploring it, Instagram, you know, is just this small app and, and people in my industry are having a [00:02:00] blast with it. Whether they were creating pages for their dog and dressing it up or doing, you know, tons of vanity shots. Like we all know what it was in its infancy, right? And you know, to me, I saw something that was more addictive than cigarettes, more addictive than alcohol, more addictive than really any product.
Because there was always a need for you to scroll, right? There was always a need for you to post, and I just became captivated by, by that whole situation.
Dylan Huey: Totally. I think that this kind of metaphor of both lanes both industries that are. Net individual of themselves. You have the tobacco and cigarette industry, and then you have the social media industry. They both obviously from what you just explained, they're both parallels of each other.
I'm curious when it comes to what we've seen with. Alcohol and the rotation and system of alcohol. And, the same thing with cigarettes. And now I think what's more popular is e-cigarettes for the younger generation, right? We start [00:03:00] to constantly see this, this wave and cycle, and it almost seems a bit biblical. The sa it's the same story every single time and time again. Is that something that you see the same for social media and, obviously Leave the Feed. We don't need to talk about Leave the Feed at its core because the people, the audience members can go buy the book if they haven't already.
But what do you think? Is necessary to prevent the same redundant cycle that we see of consumerism and productization that turns a bit addictive. Like how can we make sure that social media, while Yeah, it's, it's been around for a while, it's been around, for more than 20 years. How but cigarettes, and alcohol, they've been around longer. So what lessons can we tangibly learn and take away to make sure that social media continues to be the power and benefits [00:04:00] that people want it to be and remove the negatives of social media.
James Petrossi: Yeah, good question and and questions inside of there. And I think number one is like they're highly pleasured. Spaces highly pleasurable and built on connection, right? Built on getting people together, bringing people together, and also having moments of indulgence and isolation for. Yourself. And I think, you know, you talked about like the migration of the tobacco industry, it's gone to less harm.
And I think as we look at what's happening with social media, I don't know if necessarily we have like the right policies in place. I don't know if they'll ever be the right policy. The categories that we're talking about, the analogous categories, whether it's alcohol, tobacco, or anything addictive, right?
Sports betting, like eventually what you have to do inside of that is. You have to be the person that decides for you how much is enough. [00:05:00] You know, it's, there's no one size fits all to anything, right? It's like sometimes you can go to a pub. There might be a guy that's having six beers there, and that's what he does every Tuesday.
If that's his choice, that's his choice. Someone else could, and they could be on the floor. You know what I mean? So like it's understanding what you're consuming, how you're consuming it, when you're consuming it, why you're consuming it, and then making choices. Based on like, where is this helping me and where is this hurting me?
But you know, needless to say, you know, there's so much opportunity for us to be more aware and I think that was for me, what got me excited about what the spark was, was because. Instead of adopting social media, I was like, you know what? Let me study this and what I found was people, although they were connecting in one area of their life, they were completely disconnecting in others. You know, you start to look at nightlife culture and you know what was great is people at the bar getting together and you gaze at someone across the bar, you meet someone.
It's these opportunistic moments. [00:06:00] Now, you know, fast forward and it's. 2018 before the pandemic, you walk into most places in New York, so everyone's faces are down on their phone waiting for a Tinder date or scrolling to pass the time. And these places that were, these social houses, you know, have sort of started to shrink in their, in their essence, in their meaning and, and became just sort of like places I try to connect digitally while offline.
And that's what always the challenge was for me. I was like. Why are we so obsessed with social media that we're losing sight of IRL? Because in real life is great, but you have to be like untethered. And, and how to become untethered becomes really hard.
Dylan Huey: We talk about in real life experiences and we talk about the tobacco industry and the alcohol industry. A bar, you have 21 and up. Alcohol, you have to be 21 and up gambling. I think 21 and up. I could be wrong.
You driving, even driving, which is a luxury, you'd [00:07:00] be 16 and up. Those are things and actions that are highly regulated that we know. Social media may not ever be regulated as much as those, but it's to the point where. It's easy to catch people and there's a punishment involved in breaking that law.
It's a law. You can't drink underage. If you drink publicly when you're 18, get in trouble. You might not go to jail, but it's gonna have repercussions. I think social media because of accessibility of the of devices now, right? There's no background check, there's no age check.
When it comes to making Instagram. There's no background age check to buying a phone. Do you think that regulation, similar to other addictive things like tobacco and alcohol, are necessities when it comes to new technology? Or how can we really. Build a [00:08:00] structure where we know that accessibility at core is through our devices. How can we find meaningful approaches to making sure that these industries aren't corrupting the next generation, but supplementing it without these heavy regulations that we know might not be able to ever hold true on. On these devices? Or do you think that, like an age law should be a thing?
James Petrossi: Yeah, I mean, with the age law, it's, it's really hard because, you know, like. What does that really mean? Right? What does that mean? Like, I had someone in my last podcast, a mother of a son who had autism. She didn't know what was going on the first six years life. She writes this book and has this platform finding Cooper's voice and Cooper's this young kid on social media, inspiring families and mothers about dealing with children with autism.
Right? And she's got all these subscribers has, has helped so many [00:09:00] families. And did he consent to that? No. But is he helping the world? Yeah. And it's a good thing. Now there's other people that are probably, you know, being dressed up and like bee outfits and told to dance and do all this crazy stuff. It's like, is that really good?
Is that really what we wanna do with, with children? You know? It might not be a good idea now, but if there was a pandemic that last lasted 10 years. It would be essential that these kids are on social media to connect and with each other.
Like you brought up these other analogous categories. There's a coming of age, like a passage of rights, right? This is, this is your time to use social media. Now, this is your time to use it with knowledge and education, because school systems might talk about social media addiction, but I don't know if they're really preparing people.
To use social media, like imagine if Reach was in every school educating kids on how to be effective creators, and there was a mental health component of that, but right [00:10:00] now it's a lot of children just staring at their parents and they're thinking to themselves, I want that. I mean, that's behavioral mirroring at its core.
I have friends with kids and they're videotaping them twenty four seven with their phone taking pictures. That's why they want the camera. So it starts at home and yeah, it would be nice if there was like, hey, when you get your driver's license, you can also use social media.
I mean, that would be cool, right? Drive a little less, maybe not cool, maybe don't drive with social media at the same time. But maybe like around that, around that time would be cool just to like make people feel like they've earned it, you know? And I think earning it's important. It's not just given to you.
You, you have to earn these rights.
Dylan Huey: totally. let's talk a little bit about the topic of this this episode specifically become the observer. I know we talked about, what got you inspired to start lead feed, but what does become the observer mean to you and how did you apply this teaching into your personal life today?
James Petrossi: Yeah, well I think going to the [00:11:00] genesis of Leave the Feed and observing other people, their social media hap habits, how they were interacting with culture for 10 years plus while being a marketer, you know, I say like. I shouldn't be the researcher for you, nor Leave the Feed should be telling you what's up with your life.
This is your own self-discovery. So become the observer is like, Hey, we have this power of self-awareness. Very few of us are as self-aware as we think we are. Almost everything is unconscious. How I brush my teeth, how I get into my car, how I turn on my phone, how I scroll, how I turn it off, how I turn it back on. So like our whole life is habitual. 95% of these actions are unconscious. And Carl Young said like, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct you and you will call it fate, right?
So like you have to make the unconscious conscious, and that's what this section's all about. It's like. You don't turn off your phone, you leave your phone on, [00:12:00] and you look at these moments like, I just got into an elevator. What did I do? Oh my God, I just picked up my phone. Why am I doing that right now?
Like, what do I really need to do in the elevator to stare at my phone? I can't take three deep breaths and just chill out my energy system for a little bit, or you know, when I'm out somewhere. Is this thing causing me distress? Is it causing me pleasure because it is pleasurable? Or is it causing me pain?
Because you know, I look at, and I say like the overwhelming majority of people that I see looking at their phone look like they're in like some type of physical pain staring down at their phone. Now, the other 20% of that, or 35% dicey is joyous, right? People laughing at something. So it's not like this is a painful pleasure all the time, but.
We all know that feeling of like you sort of get stuck, right? Stuck in this like loop and you need to identify what those loops are and that's what becoming the observer is. And then say, okay, like I know that these are triggers [00:13:00] when I go into these certain areas, I know I have a calling like this, this magnetic force is bringing me to like open my feet or look at my phone and being aware of those softens that.
Addiction, like it softens that drive just by you acknowledging it's happening. You have become aware of being aware. And that's fun. That's what life is all about. And the more aware you are, the more you like groove around like Yoda, you know? And I think everyone wants to be like more Yoda and less being pulled in by the dark side.
'cause you get pulled in by the dark side. There's a luing stuff in there, man. Like, it looks like fun, you know? I'm gonna like grab people by the throat, throw 'em against the wall. But after a while you're like, oh man, you know, like. This isn't like really fun, you know? This is hurtful to everyone. So yeah.
Yeah. This, this whole thing is be more like Yoda, you know?
Dylan Huey: Totally. And Leave the Feed outta the book, you're the great first place to become your own observer. [00:14:00] But, , what other tangible things should people think about or do to start to get in a rhythm of putting themselves in that Yoda mindset.
James Petrossi: Right. Right. And it's like, it's a different type of monk mode, right? And it's, it's a little bit of asking yourself why, like, and sometimes what I like to do for myself is I'll look at a chunk of time and if you chunk like rituals and moments, markers of time, for instance, like from the time you get up.
It's at the time you go out the door, right? You might find that the first thing you do is you roll over and grab your phone. Then you might find that you go to the kitchen, you start cooking, you look at your phone again. Then you might find that after that you go to the bathroom and you bring your phone in there where it's outside the shower.
You're sitting on the toilet, like however you use your phone in the bathroom. I [00:15:00] think looking at that. And your habits and rituals with social media, but then elevating it too to other things that you do. Like how am I brushing my teeth? Like am I just flying around in there or am I consciously being aware of like my connection of my toothbrush to each of the teeth?
How do you become one with the experience? And I think the more we become the observer in life. And we talk about this in another section of the book, embrace the Moment is like the more you become the observer, the more you embrace the moment. Because I know we can multitask and get a lot of things done, but we can't really give all of our.
Focus consciousness and energy to more than like one complex task at a time. You know? And it's a complex task, being self-aware. So practicing that awareness and even when you're hanging out with friends, someone says something, you're unconscious, mind wants to judge, compare, [00:16:00] react, like dislike, whether in person or on social media.
And instead of jumping down someone's throat or getting pissed off or having to butt in with a point of view, you can take some deep breaths and just say like, why? Why did I think that? Why did that impulse come into my mind? Because it's coming from somewhere. It's coming from an aggregate of all your life experiences and it's self-righteous.
You know, the inner roommate, the person that lives inside of us, you know, they can be a pain in the ass. You know, and becoming the observer of those thoughts, those feelings, those emotions,
and that's why like, you know, going back to Yoda, you know, before he speaks, he listens. And before he communicates, he ponders. Right. You, you can sort of see that. And it's not that you can't just go wild and have fun and, and express yourself and be yourself, but at some point. If you lose that self-awareness, you lose becoming the observer.
Dylan Huey: We chatted a [00:17:00] little bit about this Yoda mentality throughout, and I think that's a great, anecdote to the mindset that people need to have. But I think, the average person isn't someone who is a monk. Or has that discipline. And I think, social media social media's great at times it's created. A barrier of discipline where, you know we now love short form content rather than long videos and all of that, our attention span is starting to decrease and that, we acknowledge a lot of the negatives that come. With social media being leveraged, we also chatted about, some tangible ways that people can start thinking about becoming their own observer and observing themselves. What mindset shifts and cultural shifts do you think we need to apply on a wider scale to allow us to really deepen the values and missions that Leave the Feed really has. Are there [00:18:00] any or what can we do to impact the wider population?
James Petrossi: Yeah. Good question. And it starts with each of us, right? I think each of us needs to make small actions that create huge, monumental cultural change. And whether that's an individual like you or I, or whether it's an entity like a brand, right? You know, I, I feel like from an individual standpoint, it's making sure that we take time.
To reconnect and reconnection becomes a priority, whether it's reconnecting with nature and going outside with family, with friends, with loved ones, with talents, with anything that can only happen when you're off of the feed. I think what we can see there then is that. There's multiple realities in this world.
There's so many different realities. There's infinite number of realities like that people live. But for me as an individual, I can be in so many different realities. And you know, there's [00:19:00] something magical and breathtaking that comes from being with the natural world and being removed from technology.
There's a liberation and a connection. That strengthens our intuition, makes us better creators in the digital world. If we're able to tap into all knowing universal energy, like we think what we create, we can control and it actually controls us and what we can't control. The natural world, which we try to control, we sort of hide from because it feels too chaotic and unpredictable when in reality, you know, the universe is unfolding just as it should.
So, you know. When each of us makes those small decisions, like standing in line and not looking at your phone at the register, but asking someone nicely for your order, then saying, have a nice day, and sharing that smile and connection, you just raise the consciousness of [00:20:00] humanity by doing that. Like if everyone was 1% nicer to everyone else during the day, what would the world.
Look like, you know? And I think those are the small actions that help alleviate the symptoms of digital depression, right? Because digital depression is all around us. You can't go online without seeing discontent, you know? But when you're offline, the contentment comes from within, right? And I think just being open to that and not being afraid that.
This reality appears scary. 'cause most of those fear-based beliefs about this reality are coming from social media. I mean, there's a lot of people with amazing content. You're gonna hear 'em on this podcast that help people in so many ways. But like at the end of the day, you know when when you die, your social media accounts not going with you.
You know what you're gonna be left with on your deathbed is like. The spirit inside this body and what type of state is it gonna be [00:21:00] in? You know, is it gonna be freaked out over like, you know, what someone's complaining about or, or what's you like or don't like? Or is it gonna be like at peace with like, what it's accomplished in this world?
And, and the. The path that it's walked down and the relationships it has and that connection to yourself. And yeah, like you might be like, oh yeah, I don't want to become a Jedi. I just like the lightsaber. I mean, that's fine too. You know, if you like the lights saber, you know, just by listening to this podcast, you've already become equipped with a new tool.
And that tool is knowing that your, your superpower, your self-awareness. Is for yours to wield the way you want. If you wanna raise your consciousness and think at a high level, it's available to you If you want to live in the impulse zone of life and let everything that you consume, all these little nuggets of information pull you left and right and you not really think about it, that's, that's a choice too.
Dylan Huey: [00:22:00] So here's Dylan's time to talk Gen Z for a second. James, in
James Petrossi: Yeah.
Dylan Huey: world, in the gen alpha world, we have a little phrase called we, that we say called. Touching grass, touch grass, right? I'm sure I've probably used it around you. I already used it in this podcast once or twice.
James Petrossi: Yeah.
Dylan Huey: does that mean to you? Because metaphorically speaking, you don't necessarily need to touch grass. It's not about touching. green grass in the middle of the park. But what does touch grass mean to you? Do you take it tangibly? Do you how do you apply that Gen Z phrase into your own world that you have.
James Petrossi: Yeah, I connect that with. Connecting your essence with the energy field. I connect that with tapping into and connecting with what moves you to touch grass. To get, not just hands on, but to get consciously connected [00:23:00] to the moment that elates you, to the moment that inspires you to the moments that move you to the activities, to the connections,
it means to me like when you have that connection between mind, body, spirit, soul, whatever, and earth right? Like, and earth like living, you know that that's what touching grass means to me.
Dylan Huey: I wanna ask two last questions for you. First one is looking out to the future, It's without saying that the phone is only gonna get more advanced, technology is only gonna get more advanced. And we talk about being your own observer of today, but how can you be your own observer to predict your own future? What what are things. That we can do to make sure that whatever we apply today to reflect on ourselves today, how can we make sure that those learnings and lessons hold true? Even as technology [00:24:00] continues to evolve and we continue to evolve individual.
James Petrossi: Yeah, , I believe that one, understanding that technology. In inevitably is gonna be a component of that journey. Right? What's your like desire for your future self? Like what is it? Is it that like, by 2030 I want to have. A hundred thousand followers and I want to be producing content that makes people smile.
The observer creates the reality, right? Where you direct your consciousness to is going to dictate how your future unfolds. So, you know, like Leave the Feed. I directed my consciousness to the challenges of social media. 15, 20 years ago. I started doing that and I didn't start actually, working on Leave the Feed till 2020 and, you know.
There was a vision and an idea to do something with it, but [00:25:00] like all of these parts of my journey manifested to this moment, then brought me to working with you on it, and then like you can look back and be like. Wow. Like it sort of unfolded weird, right? I never would've, I, I could've never planned that.
But you planted the seed and I think planting that seed, and it's okay to want things in the crater economy, it's okay to want to be an influencer. It's okay to take non-traditional paths. It's also okay to go to college and wanting to be a teacher or, you know, a janitor, whatever you wanna be, whatever you're, you're passionate about.
No talents are more important. Than any other. It's just that certain ones get recognized more in like People magazine, you know, like, so so I would say just staying really focused on, on that, just focus on painting a picture of the future and what you want that picture to be like.
Dylan Huey: Totally.
Last question. In 60 seconds we talked about a lot of different things, and. I wanna end this on a a summary note. [00:26:00] What do you think is the most important thing for people to take away? One, when it comes to becoming the observer and two, as the author Leave the Feed, overall with Leave the Feed.
James Petrossi: I think one is you're the creator of your own reality where you direct your consciousness. Where you direct your attention on a day-to-day moment to moment basis is going to create your reality. So be very careful of what you consume 'cause it will consume you then with Leave the Feed. You know, going back to the beginning of the discussion, talking about.
Analogous categories. Like you look at the liquor category and you say like, Hey, what's like, one of the things people like to do the most dry January? Right? Because it's a time for you to sort of like hit the reset button on something that, you know, you probably indulge in too much. Right? And I think, you know, for the Leave the Feed challenge.
Going through all 30 sections of the book on a [00:27:00] yearly basis, you know, and doing this, I don't consider a digital detox. I consider it like a reconnection journey. And if you go on a reconnection journey once a year. Four 30 days and just really make sure you use social media as little as possible.
During this, it's gonna hit the reset button, and I think when you hit that reset button, the other things we talked about today about like finding and changing those habits, making sure that you're working towards something you believe in, like it starts to open you up to the ability to create. Right, instead of just consuming to actually create and to create your own destiny.
To create your own future. And that's why Leave the Feed is so important because it helps us awaken the Yoda within us. It helps us make sure that like. It doesn't become dormant, and we're not just, you know, unconsciously driven by impulses that are coming from the mind that we are aware of being aware.
And that last quote, [00:28:00] I'll, I'll mention it one more time. You know, until you make the unconscious conscious, until you make all those things that you don't know you're doing, until you bring those to your awareness, they'll control you and you'll just think that's fate. You're destined to be like this. The observer creates the reality.
Dylan Huey: I love it. I. That has been the end of the podcast. We appreciate it. And we are looking forward to a lot of other episodes yeah. Thank you so much.