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Do Good Work is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
PODCAST
Raul: Always get to start
with a, a smile and a laugh.
Today on the podcast we
have Stacy Brown Randall.
She's an author, speaker,
podcast host, and a mom of three.
She's got her new book coming out
called The Referable Client Experience,
and her expertise in Genius is
helping business owners generate more
referrals without asking for them.
And I love that tagline.
Stacy, welcome back to the pod.
Stacey Brown Randall: you
so much for having me back
Raul: mm-hmm.
Stacey Brown Randall: And now it's
funny, like when publishing this new
book, which is great, but it's leading
to conversations with my publisher
about, it's probably time to do a
second edition of the first book.
And so I.
Long they've been in my world.
They, they will maybe read the first book
or they'll listen to my podcast, if they
read the first book and they understand
like how I talk about generating referrals
without asking, they're like, okay, if
I do what the book says, I've got my
strategy, I've got my system in place.
I've got my overarching, like all, all
in referral plan in place, and I'm like.
Oh no, that's actually just one strategy
of the 20 that I actually teach.
Now, not all businesses
need all 20 strategies.
Some are situational, some are next
level depending on where a company
is headed, but the reality of it
is, is the first book is based on
one of my foundational strategies.
And then I started thinking about it.
I was like, well, I have
three foundational strategies.
The truth is they could all be
their own standalone book, hence.
Now why we have the second book
coming out, which is on the
referable client experience, and so.
Really that's where it came from, is
just this idea that there is, when
I think about how I teach referrals
right, and what that looks like.
Um, it's really, really
interesting in terms of the.
The totality of referrals inside
a company and inside a business.
It's not just every solution, like
there's one solution, referrals are
a nail, and so here's your hammer.
It really is looking at it differently,
like, okay, there's pieces to where
referrals hang out in your business and
you need different strategies, different
plans, different SOPs to be able to make
sure that you're gathering up all those
referrals, and that's why there's now
a second book and there will probably
be additional books after this one.
Raul: I like it.
The, the, the, the sequels continue.
But, uh, going to your original point,
I think, I mean, reading your book, uh,
taking one of your programs, I forgot
which program I took, and one of the
courses, it really opens up your eyes.
It's not just a.
Referral, like every opportunity or
part of the relationship because we're
so dynamic, like we humans, notis are
dynamic with each other and there's a lot
of different ways that we interact and
build that relationship that you start
looking at different avenues of where the
relationship can deepen and also doing
it with style and, and coming through.
Like I'm a systems guy by nature, like
coming through through operations.
Even though I focus a lot on
growth operating systems from
revenue to marketing to sales.
I love that you're focusing
on the client experience.
'cause a, anytime that I work with
clients, we even look at what is the
actual journey, not just to get to
work with you, but through the work
of de deepening that relationship for
them to expand, to increase lifetime
value, to increase preferability,
to increase new add-ons and support.
Tell me more about how, how to
think about our client's experience
in the lens of referability.
Stacey Brown Randall: About
your client experience so
that you can be referable and
Raul: Hmm
Stacey Brown Randall: like
outside of that, right?
With the next piece that we're looking at
is, okay, now how do you bridge the gap?
To referrals.
And
Raul: mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: part of how I
think about referrals and why this book
exists and why exists within the, the
client experiences is that it actually
takes, like, there's a form, there's
stages to your client experience.
There's a formula to consider.
There's a way for people for to like in
that place where you're building that
desire to want to refer you, you have
to have that in place first long before
you can bridge the gap to referrals.
And know, one of the number one
questions I always ask clients is like.
Or I'll ask people, I'm
doing a speaking engagement.
It's like, who does quality work?
And everybody like raises their hand.
Of course I do quality work.
You do qual.
Of course we do quality work.
That's why we're in business.
Our clients love us, right?
And then I'm saying, great,
are you drowning in referrals?
And all the hands come down.
They're like, no.
And then the question is, well wait.
we doing something wrong?
And my answer is typically, probably not.
But you believe doing quality work is
the totality of your client experience,
and that is not gonna make you referable,
and you are certainly not doing
what you need to do to actually then
bridge the gap to generate referrals.
Raul: It's almost like a prequel then
it's almost like getting your big girl
and big boy pants and like actually
preparing the foundations that you need.
And, or I mean it, I mean, it, it sounds
like you're just helping people build a,
a better business foundation and practical
terms that will lead to business and, and
that's just the way that I'm interpreting
it, because you're right on the, from my
side, when I look at the, the sales in
the marketing world, I have confidence
that I'm, from my experience, I've been
punched in the gut and in the chin plenty
of times, but I'm pretty confident that
we can sell ideas, products, and services.
Granted, granted.
They're in demand and
they solve a real problem.
It's all all about this a thing.
You do solve a real problem.
Do people want it?
And I can't take something that
people don't want and sell it
because it's never gonna sell.
It's the same situation here.
You can take an experience that you
can't get referrals if you don't
have a good experience to begin with.
Like you have to have a solid business
foundation to fundamentals first
in order to be able to do this.
So that's just the way
that I'm interpreting.
Am I on point?
Stacey Brown Randall: One of the things
that people, that I always want people
to kind of consider when they're reading
this book is that I'm actually not gonna
teach you how to run your business.
Like those are the
things that I think that
Raul: Oh yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: like
locked and loaded, like, do
you have the right product?
Is it something that actually
solves a problem in the market?
Like all those things really matter
in terms of what it looks like to
be able to be referable, right?
And so when you're thinking about it from
that perspective, it's like, I, I wanna
come along once, like you do quality work,
you have the processes and procedures
in place, and then I wanna show you some
things you're probably not thinking about
that are impacting how your client feels.
And then I wanna layer
in that referral piece.
Raul: Interesting.
So let's dive into what does that,
how do you map out that experience?
Because I feel like there's, I
mean, from what Ivis tells me, IVIS
world, like there's millions of
professional services firms, there's
or professionals out there who have a
client experience, but that's also a
one-way street If we think we're doing
great work, but that's our perception.
How do we actually validate that?
How do we look at the
experience of a holistic view?
Hmm.
Stacey Brown Randall: The emotional side
of what it feels like to work with you.
So I teach the client
experience like it's.
Two parts to a Formula
One, it is the work you do.
Second, though, it is also the
relationship that you're building.
The work that you do matters of course,
but it is not more important than
the relationship you build and the
relationship you build is really what
pushes into how a client feels a beyond
just saying, yes, he did what he said
he would do, and I got the results out.
Relationship, and that's the piece
that I find people don't realize and
that you're usually overlooking because
you haven't paid attention to it.
So it's, yep, the work you do is great,
but what are you, so we call that like
the work output or work touch points, but
you have to have a balance of those with
the relationship building outreaches or
touch points that you're doing as well,
and really paying attention to how you're
trying to have your clients feel now.
There's a exercise that I teach
inside the book and it's also, we,
we map it out in the workbook that
goes along with the book as well.
And that that one activity is like you
knowing how you want your clients to feel
and building your client experience around
what we call those ideal client reactions.
What are the ways that you
want your clients to feel and
that ideal client reaction?
And it's usually a couple of things you
want them to feel and then building.
Not the work you do, but the relationship
building touch points around that.
So they're actually evoking those
emotions and having that reaction,
that's your baseline to getting
people to want to ultimately.
Raul: I like that a lot.
You know, it starts either from I, I
think it starts from your marketing
and then your sales touchpoint.
Into the onboarding and then delivery,
delivery of the milestones if you have
milestones or touch points through the
engagement from the upsell, the down.
So, but how do we, how do we marry
the thesis of your original book to
like, or like the original concepts
that you and I started talking on is
getting referrals without asking them.
So how do we marry that
experience to like, are we
just like hoping for referrals?
I know that's not the answer,
but like how do we, how do we.
Stacey Brown Randall:
Definitely not the answer.
Yeah.
So, you know, when you think about
the, the client experience, the doing
the things that make you referable
is making sure that you understand
the stages of your client experience.
And that you have a balance between
your work output and your relationship
building output, or your work touchpoints
and your relationship touchpoint.
From there, the bridging it to referrals
comes into place into three areas.
Number one, it's your ability
to identify the right people.
Sometimes you will just have a
client that hires you and they
will start to refer you and there
really isn't anything you did right.
Maybe you did a few of the
relationship building touch points
that I would want you to have a part.
Raul: It's just who they are.
Stacey Brown Randall: Right.
It's just who they are.
They're just the right people.
And so, and, and we don't know who
they are until they reveal themselves,
which is like, everyone's like,
Raul: Yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: I know who they are?
I'm like, you wait till
they reveal themselves.
And I'm sorry you don't
want that answer, but.
Raul: Just thinking about the
ones that are doing it for me.
I'm like, you couldn't, you
wouldn't be able to tell.
Yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: for some of us, it's
the referrals come from the right people.
The next place that referrals are gonna
come from are what we call hot zones.
There are moments during your
client experience where referrals
are more likely to happen.
Now, while there are some common hot
zones, um, that I kind of talk about in
the book, what I tell companies to do is.
You gotta know what yours are
though, because yours may not map
the ones that I would call common.
It really depends on what you do, right?
A common hot zone to give an example
though, would be when someone signs up to
say yes to working with you and they're
just getting started and they're in that
new client phase and there's the building
of the anticipation of this problem
I have is finally gonna be solved and
this person is gonna solve it for me.
So sometimes like that could
be for a company's hot zone.
It's not always though, right?
If getting started with you
means I gotta do a ton of work.
Right.
The, that hot zone may be a
little bit after that, right?
So you really need to map out when are
your hot zones, and the only way you can
map out your hot zones, and that's when,
when referrals are actually arriving,
is to look back as to when clients
referred to you and at what stage they
were in, at what point they were in, and
Raul: Mm.
Stacey Brown Randall: their client
experience when they made the
referral to a new potential client.
And so.
I teach three different ways that
companies can walk through this process.
Um, I always tell folks like, pick the
one that sounds like the least amount of
work for you, because then you'll do it.
So there's like a starter one,
then there's like a master one,
and there's like a, okay, you're
not gonna do either of those.
So let's just start it from this point
forward and start mapping it out.
But it's looking back in the
data, like when this client
referred you, where were they?
they were, they were 30 days in.
They were three days in.
Oh, they were finished working with you.
Those are your hot zones and one referral.
In one moment doesn't make a hot zone.
There's usually patterns that we're
looking for from a referral perspective,
but so if it's not the right people and
then you're looking at your hot zones.
The other one is, it's just
what we call referral moments.
It's just a client says
something and there is language.
I want you to have memorized
you and anyone on your team to
have memorized to be able to
say that plants a referral seed.
So with the right people, they reveal
themselves, but we wanna make sure we've
got a process in place to, of course.
Of like, oh, you mentioned that.
This is how I would, I wanna respond.
How you respond.
So that's how we bridge
the gap to referrals.
Once you have that referable client
experience is doing it through the right
people, referral moments and hot zones.
Raul: I love that.
And one of the key things too
that I think about 'cause um.
I mean, you, you give a
lot of areas to look at.
We can also look like if, if you're super
nerdy like me, like quantifying, like
what are the things that you're doing,
how does that impact the relationship?
What are the dynamics
in that relationship?
Do you know the disc analysis of the
other person that you're talking to?
That might be too overwhelming.
I have some clients that we still
like just focus on like a very, very
basic discovery call structure so
that to have a more complex structure
on the client engagement and the
relationship side can be overwhelming.
But I think the key thing to look at is.
How are you showing up?
And do you have simple, I mean,
internalizing everything that you're
saying, but convert it into a way that
you can memorize it in a way that you know
how you're going to respond naturally.
Not following a script to build
a real authentic relationship.
Because if you follow a script, it's,
it's like it's game over from there.
Like they, they can, they
can suss it out anytime.
Stacey Brown Randall: always tell
folks that when you're thinking about
the scripts, that the scripts right
that I give, I'm like, you need to
memorize it so that you know the basic
function of what you're trying to say
and what you're trying to accomplish.
Raul: Yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: You need
to personalize it to yourself.
And sometimes I feel like the scripts
that I give are just reminders.
Like, so one of the easiest ways for
people to plant referral seeds through
their client experience is if they
have a client who was referred to them.
There should be moments throughout
that client experience where you're
just simply reminding that client
that they were referred to you.
Reminding them that they were
referred, puts it back in it.
It plants the seed that referrals
are happening, and That's right.
That's how I showed up.
You're not saying, Hey, you were referred,
so now go refer me a bunch of people.
You're not saying that that's terrible.
Right.
As you plant that seed consistently
over time throughout the duration
of that client experience, right?
It's allowing the idea of
referring you to percolate in
the mind of that client, right?
So that's one of those, what
what I would refer to as it's
just the referral moment, right?
Because not all clients are referred,
so you can't plant that seed with
people, clients that aren't referred.
So that's knowing the moment,
Hey, this is a referred client.
Does everybody on the team know that?
Not every time you talk to
them, because that's weird.
But every couple of times, or at these
four times throughout their client
experience, we're gonna make sure we
say, oh, by the way, I'm just so glad
that so and so referred you to us.
So we have this opportunity
to work together.
that
Raul: Yeah.
Stacey Brown Randall: so far in
terms of having that client start
thinking of referring to you.
Raul: And I like to tie that into
a natural moment where there's like
elation or we hit some sort of milestone.
Like, dude, I'm so grateful
that extra connected us.
This is so great.
And so like being able to connect it
to like a dopamine rush or just some,
some sort of, some sort of high, but,
uh, it's obviously intentional, but
also for me now, it's just natural.
It's like I'm not just looking
for these little moments.
It's just like, oh, I,
I just did it because.
It's part of my DNA now, thanks to some
of the, the courses that I took from you.
Stacey Brown Randall: That
to me, is the biggest win
because that has the longevity.
To see referrals differently
in their business.
That is the biggest step forward
we can take, and then all the
tactics and strategies and
language and things like that.
Raul: It's the practice, it's going
through it, it's the, uh, the first
couple rounds you're gonna be okay.
Then once you feel like you're competent
and then now you got the foundations and
then you can start getting some advance,
like small, small, it's almost alluded
to what if I do a lot of exercise?
It's alluded to like the, the
minor movements that you can do,
like the minor strides in your
run or how you pedal on the bike.
Just like small little things can make
a significant difference in your cadence
and in your speed and in your time.
So, um.
It's, it's a similar, similar thing here.
To shift gears a little bit, one of
the things that we're doing now in the
pod is we're pulling back the currents.
Like, how are you growing, how you're
growing through books, through referrals,
through like what are some of your big
initiatives coming into the new year and
what are you thinking, like outside outta
the book launch is probably everything,
even at 2:00 AM like when you wake up,
uh, maybe to get a glass of water or
something, but, well, how are you growing?
What are some of the things and
initiatives that are exciting you?
Stacey Brown Randall: You
know, it's interesting.
I always look at the things that we do
inside my business from the perspective,
the activities that we take or the,
the strategies that we have in place.
They fall into one of three buckets
when it comes to like the business
development and the sales and
the growth side of the business.
And that they're either
gonna be like leads generate.
Maximizing and minimizing your
resources across those things as well.
For me, from a generation, of
course, I practice what I preach
and a lot of my great clients are
gonna come to me through referrals.
Like obviously I'm doing like that
from the perspective of I follow
all the same strategies I teach
my clients, I'm like, I'm in it.
With you guys 'cause I'm doing it too.
Um, but to your point, I
do also grow my business.
The book aspect of publishing
new books is a growth mechanism.
I'm embarrassed to say this though,
it took a while, more years than
it probably should have for me
to realize that my first book was
driving as much growth as it was
because it's hard to quantify someone
telling someone else to read my book.
I don't ever know that.
Right?
That's not an actual
Raul: Oh yeah,
Stacey Brown Randall: For
me, like to know that.
Raul: it pops up.
It pops up.
I see that in the,
Stacey Brown Randall: What's,
Raul: going on?
Stacey Brown Randall: You're
like, and so like some months
I'm looking, I'm like, whoa.
We sold like hundreds and hundreds of
copies of books and some months I'm
like, boy, we barely hit a hundred.
Right?
Like it's just, I mean, my first
book's been out for six years, so
there's a ton of ebb and flow to it.
But one of the things I do in all my books
is that there is a secret link inside the
book for the people who, you know, buy.
Email subscriber generator
on a month to month to month.
Putting information out there.
And so I was like, I probably shouldn't
have waited six years to put out the
second book, like, what is wrong with me?
Um, and so definitely I think that's
a big growth trajectory for me.
We, there is a book number
three that will be coming out.
Um, I'm never gonna say when
I learned my lesson, this book
that's out now in 2025 was supposed
to be out in 2020, so clearly.
don't
Raul: Oh.
Stacey Brown Randall: put like maybe
20, 20, 20, 20 21, but you know, there
should be another book out in 27.
There should be a book, another book
out in 29 or 30, and like, just kinda
looking at it in that perspective.
So the books are a big
piece of growth for us too.
Um, and you know, for,
for me, for my business.
I love its size, I love its capabilities.
I love the, what the calendar
looks like for me, um, in terms
of my growth trajectory and my
freedom and the space that I have.
But I have other plans for this business.
Like later on.
I'm just not quite there yet.
But right now the growth is, of course,
the books are a big engine to that.
Raul: It's pretty cool.
'cause the books are,
are a long term play.
They're, you're, you put your
flag in the ground, but it's
not an immediate three month.
It's a, it's, it's a longer term
play, but you're also adding
value to the industry and that's
how it's gonna come back to you.
And I like that you're di
dissecting that from capture to
nurture than to conversion, which
I think that's an important thing.
Even one of the guys that I, uh, good
friend, former client, like helped
him out with his podcast, uh, crew.
But that was the key thing
that he found for his 'cause.
He does podcast publications or
podcast syndication, et cetera.
And creation.
It's an LTV driver.
It's for existing clients to go
deeper with you, to learn more about
you, how you think, how you process.
'cause if you're in their mind and
you they're washing their dishes,
walking the dog, all the whole thing.
Um, that's fascinating.
More books.
You're gonna be a, uh, a serial author.
Stacey Brown Randall: that
word, I don't love that term.
Serial makes it sound like I
gotta write more than the four
that I think I'm gonna do.
I, there may be done, like there may
be four and done like, so I don't know.
So maybe serial author right
now, but if I don't, my father
was an author when he was alive.
He wrote fiction books.
He published like over 20 fiction books.
I don't want anything like
Raul: Wow.
That's cool though.
It's still your craft.
Well, Stacy, for everyone out
here, uh, we're gonna publish this
around book launch, but uh, when
it launches, let us know what's
the best place to grab the book.
Stacey Brown Randall: Yeah, so
anywhere you like to purchase books,
wherever you go, whether that's online
to purchase books, by all means the
book will be available for you to
purchase it wherever books are sold.
Um, but if you wanna like learn
a little bit more about it and
you're like, Hey, maybe I just.
Wanna like download a free
chapter before I like dive in
and actually purchase the book?
Um, you can go to referable
client experience.com
or again, just search for the title, the
Referable Client Experience, and whatever
platform you like to buy your books from.
Raul: Wonderful.
Put those links in the show notes.
Stacy, thanks again for being on.
It was fun.
Stacey Brown Randall: you for having me.
I appreciate it.
The Referable Client Experience
With Stacey Brown Randall
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