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Own Your Impact equips experts and leaders to transform their expertise into meaningful influence. Host Macy Robison reveals how successful thought leaders use deliberate systems—not luck or volume—to amplify their authentic voice and create lasting impact. Through practical frameworks and strategic guidance, you'll discover how to build a self-reinforcing ecosystem of Core Resonance, structured Content, a Central Platform, strategic Connections, and intentional Commercialization. Whether you're just starting to share your expertise or scaling an existing platform, this podcast delivers the roadmap to turn your ideas into purpose-driven influence that resonates far beyond what you might imagine possible.
Upstream Marketing for Thought Leaders
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[00:00:00] There is a pattern I see with nearly every brilliant expert I work with. They know their stuff inside and out. They get results for people. They have frameworks and insights that could transform industries, but when it comes to marketing that expertise, they either avoid it entirely or build something so complicated it nearly kills their business.
[00:00:22] Last week on the podcast, we talked about the one question that simplifies all marketing. What do people need to believe in order to buy? Today we're diving deeper into why smart people especially struggle with marketing in the first place, and I'm going to share a framework that will help you see where to focus your energy so you stop spinning your wheels on things that don't matter.
[00:00:42] We will talk about why your analytical mind, which serves you so well in creating expertise, might actually be working against you in marketing, and we'll talk about the difference between upstream and downstream marketing decisions and why most experts are optimizing the wrong [00:01:00] things. This isn't about doing more marketing, it's about doing the right marketing in the right order.
[00:01:07] All of this content comes from a really great book called Simple Marketing for Smart People by Billy Broas, and there's a story that he tells early in the book about his own background starting out as a hobbyist brewing beer at home. He loved this hobby and like most analytical people who get really passionate about something, he went deep all in.
[00:01:29] He found blueprints for his brewing system, and he called it a space age brewing system. It was designed by a former NASA scientist. It was beautiful from what he says in the book. Stainless steel pots, buttons, pipes, connecting to more pipes. Heavy duty pumps powering everything. He spent 12 months in a small fortune building this technological marvel, and when he finished, stepped back and admired what he'd created.
[00:01:54] It was the most sophisticated home brewery he had ever seen. But here's what [00:02:00] happened. When he started to actually use it, he realized it had a fatal flaw. There were way too many moving parts and the thing constantly malfunctioned. Pipes were leaking, burners were failing. Hoses were clogging. Billy was spending more time fixing the system than actually brewing the beer he was trying to brew at home.
[00:02:18] Then one Sunday, while he was troubleshooting yet another problem, he accidentally hung a towel on the equipment right next to a propane burner. When he went inside to clean something in the kitchen, an automatic timer clicked on the burner and the towel burst into flames right next to his house. He managed to put it out, but realized that if he'd waited even one more minute, that fire could have spread to the propane tank that the burner was attached to and blown everything up, maybe even his home, and that was the end of the complicated NASA brewery.
[00:02:50] Here's what he learned and what he talks about in the book. When you keep things simple, you free up time, attention, and head space to invest in the things that matter [00:03:00] most. This story from Billy is a perfect metaphor for what happens to smart people when we approach marketing, we see all the possibilities, all the platforms, all the tactics.
[00:03:12] We try to build the most sophisticated system we possibly can. We research every social media platform and wonder which one is best for us. We install the website plugins. We set up complex funnels with multiple decision trees. We optimize our email sequences down to the minute they're sent. We continue to research tools to optimize things even better, and then we wonder why we're spending more time maintaining our marketing system than serving our clients.
[00:03:37] The curse of smart people in marketing isn't that we don't understand it, it's that we understand what needs to be done too well, or we're procrastinating the possibility of talking to someone about what we actually have to sell.
[00:03:50] And here's what all of this reminds me of. You can't scale a complex system like we talked about in my episodes on another book, the Science of Scaling I think it was on August 13th and [00:04:00] August 20th. Both of those episodes complex systems have too many competing priorities, too many bottlenecks and too many things that can break down.
[00:04:08] Only simple systems, whether they have to do with marketing or your business model only simple systems can scale, and this connects to something we talk about a lot in the resonant thought leadership system, the way that the five parts of the thought leadership system work together. I often compare it to the foundation of a house and then what you build on top of it, or like a tree, your thought leadership has parts you can see and parts that are invisible, but really critical for everything else to work.
[00:04:38] So in the book, Billy talks about this in terms of a river metaphor, , thinking about things that are upstream, activities and downstream activities. I, I talk about this a lot with clients and I think it's important because once you understand this, it will be so much easier to spend the right time on the right activities as it relates to your marketing specifically.
[00:04:59] [00:05:00] So think of your marketing as a river with three sections upstream, midstream, and downstream. Upstream is your core message. These are the fundamental beliefs people need in order to value what you offer. It's the invisible foundation, like the root system of a tree. It's where you answer questions like, what does my audience need to believe in order to buy?
[00:05:22] What's my unique perspective on the problem I solve? What's the transformation I create that others don't? Because I also am certified in StoryBrand. When we talk about upstream and core message, this is often where we have to start when we're trying to figure out how to talk about what you do. All of that happens upstream.
[00:05:40] Now, midstream are your channels. These are the platforms and places where you share your message. These are like the trunk of a tree. This is where you decide LinkedIn or Instagram, podcast or newsletter speaking or writing. These are important decisions, but they only work if the upstream message is [00:06:00] clear.
[00:06:00] Downstream are tactics. These are specific techniques you use to optimize and amplify within those midstream channels to compare it to a tree. These are like the branches and the leaves or the visible parts of the tree. This is where you optimize headlines, posting times, email, subject lines, funnel sequences, captions.
[00:06:19] Here's the critical insight. We've talked about this before, but most marketing advice. Most advice in general in this arena focuses on tactics, downstream tactics, and people get seduced by downstream complexity because that's where all the interesting technical challenges are. This is also where people avoid marketing altogether because the tactics don't feel like them, like who they are.
[00:06:47] And if your upstream message isn't clear, the downstream tactics are just sophisticated noise. So here's an example of how this plays out. I was working with a really brilliant strategic advisor who came to me [00:07:00] frustrated because her marketing wasn't working. She had tried all the things. She tried LinkedIn posts, she tried newsletters.
[00:07:06] She tried speaking at conferences, she'd even delved into some paid advertising. Now, when I looked at her setup, it was very impressive. Very sophisticated tracking systems, AB testing happening, optimized posting schedules. It had a beautiful website. But when I asked the upstream question, what do people need to believe in order to buy from you in order to value your work, she couldn't answer.
[00:07:31] She knew the methodologies inside and out. She had these frameworks that were really detailed. She hadn't thought about what beliefs her prospects needed before they could even understand why those frameworks would matter. So we spent some time working on the core messaging. We identified that prospects need to believe that most business failures aren't execution problems.
[00:07:49] They're decision making problems. They needed to believe the frameworks that they're already using for strategic decisions are outdated and inadequate for today's complexity. And once we had the clarity on [00:08:00] that. Everything midstream and downstream worked better. The LinkedIn post got more engagement.
[00:08:06] The newsletter got higher open rates. The speaking topics generated more leads. Nothing changed about the tactics. It was the message. This is why the resonant thought leadership system starts with core resonance instead of your central platform or even your content, your your transformational ip. Your core resonance, your authentic voice, your unique perspective, your natural way of creating transformation, that is a big part of this upstream foundation that helps determine what people need to believe in order to buy from you.
[00:08:37] So when people ask me, should I start a podcast or should I do videos on LinkedIn, I let them know they're asking a midstream question before they've solved their upstream challenge. Or what's the best posting schedule? Should I do reels? Should I, should I create carousels? They're asking way downstream questions when they need upstream clarity.
[00:08:58] The experts who break through the [00:09:00] fastest aren't the ones with the most sophisticated systems. They're the ones who are crystal clear about their core messaging, about the problem they solve, about their core resonance, and then they choose the simplest way possible to share it consistently. So think of your thought leadership , like we've mentioned before, like a tree that's always growing.
[00:09:18] Different parts need attention in different season, but there's a natural order to how healthy things grow. The root system of a tree is mostly invisible. It's really critical and in thought leadership terms, your core resonance, your essence, your expression, your embodiment, , your experience. Those lateral roots that go out are the content that transformational ip, your structured wisdom, and then connecting the roots up to the trunk is all the connection strategies you have about building an audience instead of a crowd.
[00:09:50] The relationships and the channels that carry what you do and who you are from your foundation to everything that's visible above ground. Visible growth [00:10:00] includes your commercialization, the trunk and the branches that hold the weight of your business and, and generate revenue in your central platform.
[00:10:07] The leaves, the canopy that's the most visible expression of your work. Here's the insight. You can't grow a strong trunk before your root system can support it. And you can't build a beautiful canopy on a weak foundation. Most people wanna start with the branches, the beautiful visible elements, the sophisticated website, the polished content, the likes, the impressive credentials.
[00:10:31] But if the root system isn't developed, that visible growth is unstable. If that upstream message isn't figured out, nothing can flow downstream. All of this can help you diagnose where to focus. Based on what is actually needed right now. So if you're struggling with marketing, ask yourself these questions.
[00:10:50] Is your core resonance clear? Can you articulate in simple terms. Who you serve, the transformation you create, what it is about your [00:11:00] experience, your way of showing up as a guide that makes you uniquely positioned to create impact in the world. If you can't talk about that clearly that's upstream work.
[00:11:10] Do you have structured wisdom and the ability to consistently create good results? If you have content and teaching material that's not systematized, that's also . Upstream work. Are you building authentic relationships with people who can buy from you or who can amplify your work to other people?
[00:11:26] If you have a non-existent or a really random connection strategy, that is something to look at that's upstream. Kind of moving into midstream now, do you have a business model that generates sustainable revenue while staying aligned with that root system, if not commercialization needs attention before you keep focusing further downstream and then the canopy that you know, does your platform clearly reflect your expertise and make it easy for people to understand and access your work.
[00:11:56] If your central platform is confusing or misaligned, you know [00:12:00] that this is your website. This is all the places your podcast, all the places you show up online. That's often a symptom of upstream problems. It's not a platform problem at all, and most people try to fix those visible platform branch leaf problems without strengthening the roots first.
[00:12:18] So if you're frustrated, your content isn't getting more traction, the downstream approach is to optimize posting times. Try different formats, test new headlines, post more often, post more consistently. Hire someone to do your social media for you. The upstream approach is what beliefs do people need to buy before they even care about this content?
[00:12:37] Am I making assumptions about what my audience already knows or believes? And is the content I'm creating, building belief, or am I just demonstrating knowledge? Am I just telling them what I know? Or if you're not getting enough leads from your website, the downstream approach is to optimize the design, fix the buttons, add more conversion elements, test different calls to action, maybe build an even more [00:13:00] sophisticated fancy funnel.
[00:13:02] If you're thinking upstream, you wanna ask things like, does my core message make it clear why someone should even care about what's on this website? Do visitors understand the transformation I'm creating? And for whom am I making the value obvious to the right people? Do they understand what they're going to get if they hire me?
[00:13:19] Do you see the difference downstream solutions? Focus on optimizing what you already have and upstream solutions focus on whether what you have is worth optimizing in the first place. You might be optimizing things that don't even need to exist. Simple systems built on strong foundations. Scale exponentially.
[00:13:38] The solution is not to add more complexity. It's not to add more tactics, it's to focus on upstream fundamentals and build from there. I think the most simple, powerful marketing, what it looks like for a thought leader is having absolute clarity on the transformation you create and for whom that is the foundation of everything.
[00:13:58] Knowing the answer to that [00:14:00] question, what do people need to believe in order to buy from me? And then you choose one or two channels where your ideal people spend time. You show up as consistently as you can with content that builds belief that is necessary for people to value your work. You hopefully have a straightforward way for people who are interested to take the next step with you, whether that's joining your email list, attending a workshop, scheduling a conversation, taking the thought leadership archetype quiz, and then focus on building authentic relationships with people who can buy from you or connect you with others who can.
[00:14:33] That's it. Everything else that's about optimization can come later.
[00:14:41] This is something I'm trying to work out right now in my own business when I, there have been times and seasons in my career where I have tried to do everything. , Tried to figure out how to build a really complex website scale a team, do all kinds of different things, offering multiple types of services.
[00:14:58] And when I have been the most successful, [00:15:00] it's when I've simplified ruthlessly, when I've gotten clear on a primary audience. Experts who wanna build thought leadership platforms, identified the core beliefs that they need to hear. Your expertise is worth sharing. Thought leadership is learnable.
[00:15:14] Authenticity is more powerful than perfection. I started with this one primary channel, the podcast, and this is where I've tried to be focused on creating content that systematically builds those beliefs. And right now I'm in the process of streamlining offerings to really focus on the transformation I am able to most effectively create for thought leaders, for authority based businesses
[00:15:36] that want to build a business based around their expertise. Everything has gotten simpler and it's getting more and more effective. It's not because I'm getting better at the tactics, it's because I'm getting as clear as I possibly can about what's happening upstream. So if you're feeling overwhelmed by marketing, if you're trying lots of tactics, if you're buying lots of courses and you're not getting consistent results.
[00:15:59] You're [00:16:00] probably spending more time optimizing systems and serving clients. That's an upstream problem, not a downstream problem.
[00:16:06] So ask yourself these questions. Can you articulate clearly the transformation you create in one or two sentences?
[00:16:12] If not, that is upstream core resonance, core messaging work. Can you name three to five beliefs people need in order to value your work? When you look at your recent content, how much of it actually builds these beliefs versus demonstrating your expertise? If most of it's expertise demonstration, we need to do some work upstream.
[00:16:34] Are you trying to do too many marketing activities at once? Let's simplify and focus on the highest leverage activities first. The system that works is the one that's going to be simple enough to maintain and give you space to focus on what matters most, the quality of what you're creating and the people that you're serving.
[00:16:51] Start upstream. Get your core message clear. Build the beliefs that make your expertise valuable. Choose simple sustainable ways to share that message [00:17:00] consistently. You don't need more sophisticated marketing, you need clearer marketing, and that clear marketing starts upstream with understanding your core ance and understanding what people need to believe before they can value what you offer.
[00:17:13] If you're ready to clarify all of this and build your thought leadership on a foundation that can actually scale, take the archetype quiz at macyrobison.com slash quiz.
[00:17:23] Understanding your natural expression style really is the first step. From there, you can join me at one of my workshops or hop on a call to have a conversation with me to see if you're a good fit for one of my programs, like the Resonant Thought Leadership Lab, your expertise matters, your voice matters, but neither one of them can create the impact you want.
[00:17:43] The impact you can own. If people don't understand why they should listen in the first place, so start up stream. Build the foundation, figure out the resonance, and then everything else becomes possible from there.