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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
Tom Hardon (00:01)
Welcome in Sun Devil fans to another episode of Echo from the Buttes. I'm your host Tom Harden. With me as always, my panel of Andrew Hazlett, Austin Bundy, and Aya Abdeen. And it's been a pretty busy week for ⁓ Sun Devil Hoops. We're gonna start off with the women's side today. And a couple games to go back over. Women played against Cincinnati.
on the 24th and suffered a narrow defeat, 66 to 64. It was a pretty, pretty toughly played game, but unfortunately just a little bit of a shortcoming. a little bit of foul trouble late that contributed to not being able to pull off the win. But I wanna kick this to you to start as our basketball expert.
What was your takeaway from that loss on the road in Cincinnati?
Aya Abdeen (01:07)
So basically I'm running errands at a target, but I'm just here during sharing a recap of the women's basketball. You know, I'm still here. So basically that what led to the Sun Devils blowing an 18 point lead. They were up by 18 in the first half and then that led and then in the second half foul trouble and careless turnovers have led to the Sun Devils losing that game after losing the lead, which
which Cincinnati's freshman guard, Joya Crawford, scored the game winning layup, which Gabby Elliott had a ball and then it was stolen by Crawford and she laid it in with two seconds. then McKenna Rackett had a chance to make a dream pointer and then it did not go in. So that led into a Sun Devils loss. So I had the opportunity to ask guard Gabby Elliott about what they need to work on. Elliott said that the Sun Devils needed to look on.
to the film and they don't like losing that way. So they have bounce back with a big win, like a big time win, which I would say it's one of the best wins of the season over Arizona. basically like they have done a lot better when it comes to crunch time situations on Wednesday's game compared to Saturday when it comes to the defense. So we're gonna get more into that for sure.
Andrew Hayslett (02:13)
Welcome to your joint.
Tom Hardon (02:31)
Yeah, we'll circle back to Wednesday's game here in a little bit, but looking back at the at the line score, a five point second quarter, you're not going to win very many games that way. ⁓ Austin, your 10,000 foot view of of of Saturday at Cincinnati. This this was a game that. If I don't want to go as far as to say it could have, you know.
derailed the great work that's been going on so far. this was the kind of growing pains game, especially that you see under a new head coach, no matter all the hype and all the great things that Molly Miller has done so far, there's still going to be some adjustments. Austin, is that something that you saw with this game?
Austen Bundy (03:27)
Yeah, 100%. I mean, this was a momentum breaker. ⁓ Like you said, this is not something that's going to completely topple everything that they're building, but it certainly ⁓ brings them to a skidding halt when you were really in the middle of building something special. I don't think it's going to derail the season entirely. This is, like you said, growing pains. ⁓ Next game up is going to be your prove it game, your rebound game.
⁓ Yeah, five points in the second quarter, you're not going to win many, basketball games that way. mean, you're going to have stinkers. You're going to have times where another team is going to figure you out and your adjustments just aren't doing anything. And, but the thing is we all know Molly Miller is the type of coach where she learns from those mistakes. The reason she was hired was because she could make these types of adjustments.
We know that she's the type of coach that can watch film and show her players like, like this second quarter is never gonna happen again. We're gonna study this thing down to its bare bones and we're going to make sure that this doesn't happen again. We're gonna be prepared next time ⁓ somebody figures out a scheme of ours and we have to make adjustments on the fly. We're gonna know how to handle it going forward. ⁓ Someone like Molly Miller, she's a great coach, but even the greatest of coaches have not seen it all.
Even the greatest coaches can be beaten when they're handed an opponent that just figures them out. ⁓ So I have confidence in them going forward. mean, they did prove it in the next game, but it's one of these games where you put it in the rear view mirror, you keep moving forward, and then you just try to build momentum off of that. These are the types of games where feel like Molly Miller should circle them on a big board in the locker room.
and make it mandatory for them to see those scores, to see the scoreboard every time they walk in so that way they have motivation to never let something like that happen again, especially being up as many points as they were and having blown that lead. So ⁓ you lose momentum, but you can always gain it back. So I have confidence that Molly Miller and the girls are gonna rebound long-term here in the season.
Tom Hardon (05:45)
Andrew when you when you look at the box when you see Molly Washington spelling out and you see Elio Socorera and McKenna Brackens and McKenna Brackens both with four fouls. Is this a is this a discipline issue that you're seeing this team? It seems like it seems like every every week we're talking about. You somebody's fouled out or there is significant foul trouble. Do you see that as? A discipline issue in the games or is this really just? At just how the game.
does get played.
Andrew Hayslett (06:16)
I think it's a byproduct of being a more defensive team that the Sun Devils are. The Sun Devils aren't really an offensive team per se, but Molly Miller, that's what she is. She's a defensive team and I think that's just the product of having a primarily defensive team is you're gonna foul more and I would expect on the other side, you're gonna have other teams fouling more than.
they typically do.
Tom Hardon (06:49)
23 files combined for the Sun Devils against 20 files for Cincinnati. I think that speaks very well to your point about just not only filing a lot but drawing a lot of those files, but being able to contain that and not have it become a systemic issue. That's really the big key going forward for the Sun Devils.
Andrew Hayslett (07:15)
Yeah,
and it's about do you fail less than your opponent at the end of the day too because if you fail Six or seven times or whatever and have kind of a lower falling game that doesn't matter if your opponent fouls three or four times and you Your opponent has more opportunities and probably scores more points from from the charity stripe than you you
You have to win games with a close to even chance at the charity stripe with your free throws.
Tom Hardon (07:53)
Absolutely, you hit that right on the head. We talked about that get right game to follow up and what better of a get right game than going up against your in state rival ⁓ as we're recording this on Thursday. Wednesday's game was hosting the school from down south and
For me personally, that was my first time seeing the Molly Miller experience in person. And I'm on board with the Molly hype, just seeing the energy that she brings and the excitement that comes from the crowd and seeing what she gets out of her players. It's ⁓ so much more apparent when you're watching it in person rather than just watching it on TV.
Aya Abdeen (08:30)
I guess.
Or sure.
Or sure.
Tom Hardon (08:45)
But
this was absolutely the definition of a get-right game. 68 to 61 final score. It did get a little bit dicey coming out of halftime. I believe it was a 13-0 run for the Wildcats coming out of the halftime break and had me sitting there.
And, I was sitting behind enemy lines, but seeing the sea of red around me just start to get their voice and get that momentum, was sitting there thinking, is this going to be, am I going to be own one in my women's basketball career? But thankfully, the ladies did pull it out. You were sitting a section over from me in press row.
Aya Abdeen (09:38)
Yes, I was.
Tom Hardon (09:39)
⁓ What was your biggest takeaway from yesterday's game?
Aya Abdeen (09:45)
So I do have to say the Sun Devils had an attendance with 6,151 fans in attendance, which was the most against Arizona Wildcats in program history. And to see how literally electrifying this crowd is, to be honest, it still gives me the chills, especially with how women's basketball has been growing for the last few years, which, mean, the Molly Miller effect.
is in great hands. You can see how Graham Racini came into the program as the athletic director, Botten, Kenny Delaham. He said, activate the Valley, boom. Led to an appearance in college football playoffs and especially winning the Big 12 championship. And now with the Thunderbolt Women's Basketball, especially in the first season with Molly Miller, how dare in the bubble in the NCAA Women's Basketball tournament. I mean, what a huge turnaround. Last season.
It was my second season when I was reporting for the women's basketball team for the state press. They were 10-22. They struggled on injuries and inconsistencies on the court. They parted ways with Natasha Adair. Respect to Natasha Adair. She is such a kind human being. And to Reagan Molly Miller from GCU, that's a game changer right there. So I am really impressed with how the Sun Devils have
turned around, especially the 10-point players they bought in, such as Gabby Elliott, who has been so consistent on both ends of the court, especially with sealing the deal with a steal and a free-dose. And she led the Sun Devils of points with 20, and she had two steals, whether it was crucial, like I pointed out. And Marlee Washtenitz, when she drilled a three-pointer, it got their crowd going. That chime out.
Basically the time that Molly Miller called, that basically changed everything. I mean, their identity was known for their defense all season. And that's what they did in French time on Wednesday night. And you can see how Molly Miller dressed in the Sun Devils uniform, like white, and she had a Sun Devils, like the devil on the back. It's all sparkly. You can see on her Instagram page, she was literally fired up. So.
It's hope that was a lot of hype surrounding this group for sure. And the future is bright and it's just the beginning.
Tom Hardon (12:15)
Absolutely an incredible amount of hype and you mentioned it with Gabby Elliott leading the team in scoring. Four of the five starters finishing double digits. Elio Sacrera with a double double. ⁓ Also, I want to pick this one to you. Seeing balanced scoring like that, mean, that's really what you want to have out of a team. You don't want to have just one person carrying all the load.
Austen Bundy (12:40)
Exactly. mean, you can see that across any team, across college basketball, men's, women's, even in the NBA. The whole point of building a roster, building a team is you want your top scorers. You want somebody who's going to be that superstar. You even, want a couple of those. You want somebody who's going to be a deep point driver, someone who's going to be the person you go to in clutch time, the person you can rely on to take the bulk of defenders away so that the rest of the team can figure out where their specialties are.
but you can't just have that one person be your sole source of offense and everybody else is kind of just there on the court. ⁓ ASU has, like you said, that balanced scoring where it's not just going to be one person who's driving the basket or shooting threes every other possession to try and keep the team in a game. Everybody's got their role and each of those roles can interconnect together in Molly Miller's scheme. And that's what's made them really difficult for a lot of these programs every time they play. When everybody is clicking in
doing what they need to do in their role. It's very hard to defend against them because you don't know who to pick on. You don't know who it is that's going to be going into each play. Like this play was designed for X player, but the next one is designed for Y. And at that point, it becomes very hard to set up a solid defensive scheme where anyone's going to key in on, OK, the ball's got to be coming around this side. They're going to pick and roll on this ⁓ opposite side of the court. ASU's.
balance scoring allows them to shoot and make baskets from all over the court. And it just becomes impossible for another defense to sit there and just know where it's going to come from. the fact that you're a lot of people may look at box scores and say, okay, well, these players only had 14 points, 13 points, 12 points. But if you've got three or four people in that box score with at least that much spread out across, mean, that's a winning team right there because it means you've got multiple threats that are going to be coming at.
your opponent and if say somebody gets in the foul trouble, it's not the end of the world. You can pull somebody from your bench and if you have the depth, it's going to be a plug-and-play situation and that's what Molly Miller's got.
Tom Hardon (14:45)
So Andrew, when you're looking at this team and you're looking at the Boxhorses, who are you identifying as that superstar on this Lady Sun Devil's team?
Andrew Hayslett (14:56)
I'm kind of going take this question in different way because there's like Austin said, there's so many different people. I think Marlee Washington and Gabby are the two that come to mind, but I'm going to, like I said, take this a little bit different way, Tom, go stick with me here is that the floor at Desert Financial Arena is the real MVP because ASU 12 and 0 at home, that's
They're one of two teams in the Big 12, the other one being TCU, that's undefeated at home. That's just really incredible with what Molly Miller has done in the first season. You see on the men's side that they've struggled at home, as Bobby Gurley has said, and to see the Valley activated for women's basketball, would say, get that fan support and win games at home.
That's kind of my MVP when looking at the box, the overall season box for.
Tom Hardon (15:58)
Okay.
Austen Bundy (15:58)
Do we know
if it's the same floor that they roll out each time or do they have multiple sets of panels that they run out there?
Andrew Hayslett (16:05)
I don't know.
Tom Hardon (16:07)
⁓ I hope it's not the same floor because you got to kind of wonder what's going on for the men's side if they're playing on the same panels and ⁓ why Bobby can't get the same kind of Molly magic that we have on the women's side. But as we pivot over to the men's side, ⁓ first we're going to start on a little bit of a happier note for the men. ⁓
hosting Cincinnati on Saturday and Cincinnati being one of the lower tier teams in the big 12. This was a game that the Sun level men needed. ⁓
coming away with the 82 to 68 win and got forced one of course to foul out by one of Cincinnati's ⁓ starters. ⁓ But Mo Odom, what else can we say about him aside from, I think he, if you're talking about the floor being the MVP for the women's side, I'm gonna go out on a very strong limb here and say that Mo Odom is that superstar for the men's side.
Austen Bundy (17:18)
Mo Odoma Sr.
Tom Hardon (17:20)
I believe so. Let's see.
Austen Bundy (17:25)
Because if he's got at least one more year of eligibility in him, if he's not a red shirt or if he's not going to graduate out or anything, Mo Odom is doing wonders for his transfer portal stock.
Andrew Hayslett (17:36)
Well, he's a senior looking at.
Tom Hardon (17:37)
Yep, he is a senior.
Austen Bundy (17:41)
All right, well, I don't know if he's got, is he a red shirt senior or is he like, what is it?
Andrew Hayslett (17:47)
He's a true senior, no right true.
Tom Hardon (17:49)
Nope.
Austen Bundy (17:49)
True, senior.
So he could theoretically, what, could he theoretically argue for an extra year or has he played all of his eligibility out?
Andrew Hayslett (18:01)
With the way the NCAA has granted some extra eligibility years to some people, I wouldn't rule anything out at this point because the rules seem to be changing frequently to me.
Tom Hardon (18:01)
We're live, fact checking as we speak.
Austen Bundy (18:15)
I just, yeah, I don't know his injury history.
Tom Hardon (18:24)
Well, looking at his career
stats, he has appeared in 30 or more games in his prior three seasons, ⁓ increasing his starter load. So just on the surface, I think any petition for ⁓ an extra year of eligibility might be unsuccessful. But like Andrew said, we never really know with how our favorite athletic governing body ⁓
makes their decisions but he was far and away the MVP of Saturday's game against Cincinnati in my mind 33 points including 6 of 11 from 3 point, 5 rebounds, 8 assists. What can't he do? I want you guys to tell me that. What can't he do?
Austen Bundy (19:18)
win a game single-handedly.
Andrew Hayslett (19:22)
center.
Austen Bundy (19:23)
You
Tom Hardon (19:25)
I think you would need.
Aya Abdeen (19:26)
basically
stay consistent on both ends of the court for sure.
Tom Hardon (19:30)
I think for him to play center we'd need to take some of some of the ops legs and give them to him. I think even I'm taller than then Odom. If anything by half an inch.
Austen Bundy (19:44)
Guard you. That's what we're known for. The guard you days are back.
Tom Hardon (19:49)
But it was a nice, refreshing bounce back win. ⁓ You're more in tune with basketball, certainly than I am. What did you take away from the men's side against Cincinnati?
Aya Abdeen (20:07)
There is not many a lot, but to see how the center was continued to lose games when they're so close to winning, which is like basically a disappointment. You can see how frustrated Bobby Hurley was at a home game the other day against Colorado. He doesn't deserve to go out like this, you know, but in order to ⁓ excuse my driving, I apologize.
In order for the Sun Devils to get back to where they want to be, it starts with the coaching. And I could see them moving on from Bobby Hurley if they continue to lose in the way they've been wanting. In the way they've basically tried to play hard, but I could see that as a possibility for s***.
Tom Hardon (20:58)
Well, from the highs of the win over Cincinnati to the lows, it was another case of the Bobbies in Orlando. Arizona State had a lead late. Arizona State actually had quite a big lead. think it was a double-digit lead, 13 points, I believe, and just fell apart.
at the end. can't think of any way to put it less bluntly than that, ⁓ just didn't, were unable to pull off the win, losing 79 to 76 on the road. ⁓ To me, it was more of what we've gotten accustomed to seeing out of a Bobby Hurley coached team, just the inability to play a complete game, play a full 40 minutes. We talk about
Molotov on one side wasn't you know, what do you know how much of a superstar he is but then the next game fouling out pick Johnson in foul trouble with four fouls it's There's you kind of want to see a little bit of you know, ebb and flow to a team but this ⁓ this is beyond peaks and valleys to me this is Canyons that they're descending down into Austin I see you nodding
You can go ahead and give me your take on that.
Austen Bundy (22:27)
I I'm with you there. I'm getting a little tired of getting the halftime alerts with ASU winning and then about an hour later getting the alert that they lost. So I think just from the fan perspective, it's frustrating. ⁓ But also it's one of those just like, well, that's kind of what you expected going in. Just like we didn't know what we were going to get with this roster. We didn't know how Bobby was going to go into this final year. I mean,
I think now that he has practically waved the white flag on the locker room, just like with the fact that his coaching is just ineffective now and they're practically just marching him out there to play a game of basketball rather than playing true college basketball. ⁓ You're going to lose more often than you're going to win if you don't have a consistent coaching message. You don't have somebody who the players will listen to to make those adjustments if they're deciding just to play the way they're going to play. ⁓
I, don't, there's not, to me, I mean, it's not necessarily unprecedented, but I think for ASU, is very unprecedented to have the type of situation that we're in, especially with the longest tenured coach, the most successful coach in program history to go down this way to just like complete chaos. And just essentially, I mean, like I see the games on their schedules now and it's just, I just go in expecting a loss.
You know, I don't have any expectations for them anymore. I really don't see them. I can't say they're not going to win another game the rest of the way, but I like, again, I look at the schedule and I'm just like, I would not be, I would not be shocked if they lost every game remaining on their schedule. And now we have another territorial series game, territorial cup series game coming up this weekend. And we're all sitting here like,
Is Bobby going to make it out of the building still employed? I mean, I can't think of another time when we were this, I don't know, destitute about a coach since Herm Edwards was fired on the field, way back against Eastern Michigan.
Tom Hardon (24:42)
Yes, we certainly haven't had the situation that I can recall in basketball, but you know. Andrew, I'm going to give you a little. Hypothetical here what? What kind of performance would it take to to keep Bobby from? Not getting fired mid season, I mean that I.
I feel like the signs are all there. I think we're short of open revolt from the fan base. What kind of performance do you think he is capable of putting up on Saturday that would give him a stay of execution?
Andrew Hayslett (25:33)
I think he's likely gonna stay no matter what the result. I think the Sun Devils would have to get blown out by 50 or 40 or something big like that. I think it's not out of realm of possibility, but I...
Tom Hardon (25:45)
It's not another possibility.
Austen Bundy (25:50)
They lost by 30 to
who was it? Like a week and a half ago?
Andrew Hayslett (25:54)
I just don't think at this point it's necessarily worth firing Hurley for what I see this team as. I don't see the replacement for Bobby Hurley on this coaching staff. With that being said, I don't think there's a need to fire him to see what ASU has in one of their assistants. Yes, Hurley.
Probably is gonna have to go at the end of the year and if he doesn't We might get that open revolt among the fans like you you mentioned Tom but at this point
The goal for Bobby is just not to say something stupid in the media at this point.
Tom Hardon (26:45)
Again, think that that's a pretty tall ask. And if you remember a year ago this weekend was the infamous pulling the team from the floor without shaking hands.
Austen Bundy (26:45)
We already had that moment.
Tom Hardon (27:02)
I would not be shocked if something similar to that happened. I don't want it to happen, but if it does, think, you know, I think that would certainly have to be the final straw for a programmer. See any like regardless of if you're going to let him play out the season, if he has another unprofessional show of sportsmanship post game like that, I think that would have to be the final nail in the coffin.
But it's certainly dire times for ⁓ Son of a Men's basketball. And like you said, another rooming matchup with that team down south on Saturday at noon. ⁓ My hopes are not high at all. I will be in the building for that one. I'm going into it expecting disappointment. ⁓ What do you guys see for that game?
Austen Bundy (28:02)
Certainly not as close as the last one, that's for sure.
Andrew Hayslett (28:07)
Yeah, I would expect it to be a bigger spread total than what we saw last game. I'd like to think optimistic, but at this point, it's not gonna happen.
Tom Hardon (28:23)
The more and more I've watched of this team this season, ⁓ just getting my hopes up, especially after the non-conference slate and knowing what has historically happened in conference play, it's still no less crushing ⁓ than everything going on here. who knows? We could be pleasantly surprised, but I'm
I'm not going into it with incredibly high hopes, but Saturday will be ⁓ the story and we will certainly have more for you all throughout the weekend on Devils in Detail and again back here on Echo from the Buttes as we recap the basketball weekend.
We're gonna pivot over to hockey now and Andrew, you were in the building with me for the Senegal series against North Dakota. I don't think this series was really an unmitigated disaster with North Dakota being ⁓ a very highly ranked team in the top four in the nation. But.
The damage that this does in the conference standings and with only 10 games remaining as I put out on Devils in Detail this morning, ⁓ the clock is ticking for the Sun Devils on this season just to be able to secure their spot in the conference tournament.
Andrew Hayslett (29:58)
I think they'll still be able to do that ASU does play Colorado College and st. Cloud State to bottom five teams in the NCHC Coming up and in Omaha as well Though those are games where you're have to take advantage of those six Probably winning for those six if you want to make the tournament maybe three, I don't know how everything's gonna shake out
And then you've got the those two juggernauts in Western Michigan and Denver who are going to be tough on the road to so you're at best you take one of those games to be honest. So you have to win four or five for me to feel comfortable to make the tournament.
Which I think they will and they should do it. They have the talent to do it. Yes, I know Jack back in Cole and Potter are out for the season two. Two guys that are top six forwards. But you still should be able to beat Colorado College at the end of the day. That's what they've got next weekend or this weekend, which a split should be the minimum.
Tom Hardon (31:19)
In my mind, know, with Colorado College being, being in ninth place out of the nine teams in the NCHC, ⁓ you've got to, the Senators have to take both games or at least get a minimum five out of six points in the standings. Because with the bottom five in the conference as close, as closely bunched up as they are, only two points separate fifth place from ninth place. There is an incredible amount of opportunity for
some of the fallout and thankfully unlike last season the Sun Devils do not have a bye in the final week of the regular season for the NCHC so they're not going to be the ones holding the hat and hoping to still have a chair when it's all said and done but this is exactly the kind of series that
the Sun Devils have to take full advantage and gain at least five points in the standings. Austin, you're watching from afar and seeing all this unfold. Am I right in my urgency and ⁓ my sky is falling or does Andrew have the right take and the more measured thought to it?
Austen Bundy (32:42)
With 10 games left, I am inclined to believe they can squeak into the tournament. I don't see this team finishing in last place. However, with that being said, I'm willing to call it at this point that the North Dakota sweep was the nail in the coffin for their season progressing anywhere past the end of the regular season. I am not yet convinced that this team can win a postseason game and that's not really
I'd say just a fault of there. I don't, don't see it as just like a false of the team. It's just the circumstances, the injuries, like it's really hard to win games when you're, losing a lot of your stars and you're losing a lot of your scoring power and they're doing the best they can. Like, I mean, they were up multiple goals in that second game against North Dakota against the goalie. didn't expect them to, really dent as much. and just, mean,
North Dakota is a really good team. They saw the chink in the armor late and they exposed it and they got away. They escaped with that win that they really should not have escaped with. So I'm not willing to say that this team is not going to make the postseason, but I am willing to say right now this team will not win a postseason game.
Tom Hardon (34:01)
Coach Powers said it during his post game comments about just how deep North Dakota is and while at the same time talking about his own team's depth and while I'm inclined to believe with them that on paper the depth is good enough but the execution just hasn't exactly been there for me. Andrew, are you seeing anything different from me as far as
execution on the ice from the rest of the powers as assembled.
Andrew Hayslett (34:38)
I agree that the depth is good, but yeah, it's execution of the defense the defenseman they've been I'm just gonna say it kind of terrible all year because I'm gonna look at the the the seven defensemen that they've played Recently Lincoln Keane's been out. We haven't seen much of him and Zemlak It is long left the team. So that's how we get to the seven Justin Kipke
Great on the offensive side. I would say his defensive prowess is very iffy. ⁓ Richard Barron, I thought he was not very good at the beginning of the year. I think he's been better. I think he's taken steps in the right direction, but he's still, I think, a weak link. The other left side defenseman is Brazen Bozer, who's I think a solid defenseman. I think he's ideally your second pair left side defenseman. I think he's...
His ⁓ he doesn't exemplify anything to me that makes him great. I just see him as very good Over on the right side. They've been playing Tucker Ness as the seventh defenseman He he's very great at hitting people which is awesome He doesn't have much he doesn't have much outside that yes, he has scored the two goals, but those were
a couple good goals, other than that, his offensive game is okay. He's just okay. Sam Kort, I think is an underrated guy. think he's about that brazen boser level, but he's on the third pair. Anthony Dowd, he's a guy that I just don't see why he gets playing time period. ⁓ He's a guy who I see often falling on the ice, just getting out physicaled by.
every
I have no complaints about Joel Shalbrook. He's grown this season and he's a player that's improved. With this defensive core for me, it's not enough to win sufficient games ⁓ at this point. And I think that's why they've lost. It's just not enough defense of elder statesman Anthony Downs, a junior, Tucker Ness as a senior. Other than that.
It's all freshmen and sophomores. It's very young. It could get better and develop through the next few years. The expectation should be that it does. But that's that's was something that struggled to me. And on the on the on the forward side is that I see a lot of talent or a lot of depth. I just don't see a lot of top and talent. A lot. I feel that the outside the
Whoever you want to put now with ⁓ Chimic and Lucius. I feel that, yeah, Kyle Small and Sean Mc, you can put whoever there. But the other nine are all very good, but there isn't to me a clear second line and say, ⁓ these guys are.
Tom Hardon (38:06)
I think it's going to be Kyle Small and for the most part going forward.
Andrew Hayslett (38:25)
just to step off. think from that top line to your next three lines, there's kind of a huge gap in guys that are a lot of young guys. Like I said, on the defensive side, you've got that big boys line of Alfano, ⁓ Morell, and Powell, which are all that's two freshmen and a sophomore in particular. I think that line is going to step up in the future, but there's just no
There isn't anyone outside of that first line that I can look to, oh, they're gonna score two, three, four goals a game potentially as a line. I just don't see that consistency or talent outside of that top line at the front of the end the And I do wanna touch on the goalies on this long ramble that I'm doing. think both of these goalies, Coach Powers always says this is the best goalie pair I've ever had.
which he might be right, but the thing for me is that these are two very good goalies. Sam Urban, he's a freshman. He's gonna develop into something I think potentially special. Connor Hasley, I think he's doing a good job, but I think it's just the defensemen have made them look worse than they actually are.
And my final point with this is that yes, these are two very good goalies.
But for me personally, I'd rather have a one Joey DeCord type level and then throw two Chase Hams back behind him than ⁓ what we have now in a urban Hasley Ham type. That's just me. Powers has obviously gone the different route, but that's how I would construct the team. There's a guy who doesn't know anything about constructing a college hockey roster besides what he sees from watching games. So take that with a grain
assault.
Tom Hardon (40:26)
Well, what I see coach powers attempting to do with the with the goaltenders and you know, I don't discredit him for this. I think he saw what Western Michigan did last year with Hampton, Swakinski and Cameron Rowe on the way to the national championship. Once Swakinski got his feet under him as a freshman, essentially from the beginning of January on last year. Western Michigan head coach. Pat Fershwire was able to.
go to each of his guys and say, OK, you've got the net Friday, you've got the net Saturday. That's how it's going to be for the rest of the season. Ultimately, he did ride the hot hand in Słuchinski going through the NCHC tournament and then onto the national championship run. But I think that is what Coach Powers is attempting to emulate, because he sees that he's got two very solid goaltenders in their own right. And
he wants to be able to mold into that tandem where you can have one goalie each have their own set night and be able to take one game every weekend. But Andrew, you brought the point up about the defense in front of them and you got to have solid defense in front of you for goalies to be at their full potential.
I saw multiple instances last weekend where the net front defense was subpar at best and North Dakota skaters were able to just float in behind the defense and be wide open and ready for tapping goals. it's not sound. ⁓ It's really, really unsound. ⁓
performance when it breaks down to it. ⁓ don't have your defenses not giving the goaltenders the best opportunity for success and when you're not creating traffic in the lanes when you're on defense, your goalies are gonna wear out and they're just gonna get coupled with shots as we saw on Saturday night.
Andrew Hayslett (42:41)
Yeah.
Tom Hardon (42:42)
Sorry, go ahead, Andrew.
Andrew Hayslett (42:44)
Yeah, Coach
Powers kind of talked about how the Penn State series was that in the NoDAC series, were the two biggest home series this season for ASU. In both those games, or both those series, ASU's goalies got peppered.
with bunch of shots. think, know if memory serves me correctly, both those Penn State games were over 40 shots against from the Nittany Lions. And I believe both, if not, know Saturday's was, but both Dakota games were over 40 shots if memory serves me correctly too. So you.
Tom Hardon (43:29)
So I actually
on on Friday night the Sun Devils did manage to out shoot North Dakota 34 to 33 but it was you're absolutely right it was Saturday's game that was that was a much more drastic shot difference North Dakota put up 45 shots against Samuel Raban while the while the Sun Devils only generated 21 shots on net against Jan Spoonar
Andrew Hayslett (43:58)
Yeah, the point still stands is...
Tom Hardon (43:59)
And that's my other big.
Go ahead, Andrew.
Andrew Hayslett (44:06)
The point still stands is that the defense is young and they need to grow. That's what I'm looking at next season is that you have to, I'd potentially look into getting like an elder statesman in from the portal because
You look at the roster, you're gonna lose Tucker Ness for sure. I don't know who else is gonna leave in the portal. So that's one spot you're gonna have to fill. And the defensive core, don't know how much many freshmen you're gonna get, but I do wanna bring in an elder statesman to help that defensive room because Sam Court, Joel Shelberg, Brazen Bozer are all gonna be juniors if they stay. And then Anthony Dowd is gonna be a senior.
I'd like to get another senior defenseman just to help those guys out because I think some of these guys are getting it put into two high-over rolls and you're saying, okay, you have to succeed when they're at least at this point not built for it yet.
Tom Hardon (45:18)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ it's ⁓ when you're when you're looking at broad strokes for the weekend as a whole, my biggest takeaway was on the offensive side, I really saw just a a regression from.
the ability to generate pressure in front of goaltenders and I think that the perfect opportunity to have done so was on Friday night going up against former Sun Devil Gibson Homer and but when you're only getting 21 shots on net settling for a lot of play from the perimeter. ⁓
Certainly on Saturday, there was one sequence sticks out of my mind where Sean McGurn had an opportunity to get a shot on net from the slot between the face off dots. And it may not have, it may have been an easy save for Spoonar, but.
Simply the action of getting the puck on net and creating opportunities for your team rather than making the extra four or five passes that we've seen the send doubles pivot back to is really just.
I don't know, it's kind of, you're almost seeing the inability to make those in-game adjustments. Do either of you guys see that?
Austen Bundy (46:51)
I mean, considering we've had more games more often than not games where ASU has led at some point by more than one goal and has gone on to either lose that game or have it go to overtime on them. Yeah, there are some there are some things that they're not adjusting to that are that should be clear to the coaching staff or at least is not getting across from the coaching staff to the players and being executed. ⁓ But like.
Again, I go back to the depth issue and like what Andrew makes a good point with a lot of these younger guys, like you can only ask so much of underclassmen and they're going to need somebody, an elder statesman, they're going to need somebody, an upperclassman, a defensive captain of sorts, who's going to take charge and be able to tell these guys like, hey, like quit doing X, Y and Z. We need to focus on this on one, two and three. And that'll fix our problem.
somebody who's been there before who has been able to make those adjustments and has been coached well enough to recognize things on their own on the bench instead of having powers and the coaching staff have to drill these things into their heads on the bench and trial by fire type of situation. these guys are getting an education out there and I think they're going to be better for it. It's just unfortunate that this season is going to be a casualty of that.
Andrew Hayslett (48:12)
Yeah, I think as a whole throughout the past few years when I've watched Sun Devil hockey is that the defense has been a general good thing from the Sun Devils play. You had guys last year, Ty Merches and Noah Beck rather, guys that could just flat out play.
Beck was always a threat to score every game it seems like. He'd always be doing something. Ty Mercheson was just your peer enforcer type guy ready to just block shots, do whatever it took to win defensive ⁓ possessions.
and I don't really see either of those players on this year's team. I see like a miniature version, but I don't see that level of players this season. I wanna go back to a couple other points Tom made, is that when I look at Sun Devil teams in the past, I feel that they've always kind of struggled.
They like to pass it more often than I feel that they shouldn't. I like to be conservative, but sometimes I feel that they're too conservative when passing inside the net. That's why I've seen for seasons on end. I also feel that they've struggled with zone entries and I felt like this weekend in particular, they did struggle with zone entries. Just they like to do the dump and chase on the forecheck, which...
doesn't really work. feel like outside of that big boy line that I talk about, that third line that's led by Logan Morrell at center, just don't really feel that that's really designed to work. And then I also feel that they historically have played too much along the boards. And I see that this year. I just wonder whatever Coach Powers and the staff is trying to get to the players.
isn't working enough because I see this year after year after year and I say, that's that's bad to me is a weak point. I don't know if you see the same Tom or Austin.
Tom Hardon (50:31)
Yeah, for me, the zone entries and the road road for checking both, you both their own for check and playing against other stronger for checking is just really the big issue for me. And I also want to raise the raise the point, get your guys' opinion on this with how the Sun Devils played last year, finishing second place in the NCHC.
Do you think that was a product of just how good the roster was or did the rest of the conference take ASU at a little underestimate them?
Did the rest of the conference underestimate the Sun Devils and kind of get surprised when late in the season, their top four position getting home ice in the conference tournament. I'm inclined to believe that the conference as a whole did kind of take the Sun Devils not to be as much of a threat.
and kind of played back a little bit. You know, we saw it with last year's NCHC media poll. The Sun Devils were picked to finish eighth out of nine. And it was starting to trend that way until the first series with Denver in November of 2024.
and that really jump started the season. think that was certainly a catalyst to get the team playing as well as they did, but I think on the whole, the NCHC just underestimated the Sun Devils. I'm wondering if you guys are seeing the same thing there.
Andrew Hayslett (52:17)
I kind of see something similar but also different in that I feel it's more of there wasn't a lot of tape on the Sun Devils that other teams had seen. ASU did frequently play Denver often before as an independent. I think they played Miami that year, the final year as an independent.
I believe they made a few trips with Colorado College, but some of these other schools, I know North Dakota, they only played once in that, the Vegas game, which ASU did win. There just wasn't a lot of film on the Sun Devils, these teams, when they went up against them. And it's hard to prepare for something you haven't seen before as a team, because this team's...
a different team. And I think we might see the same same thing with St. Thomas next year when they joined the NCHC is they might take a lot of people by surprise their first year. And then once teams start to see St. Thomas, a second, third, fourth time through the the order say, ⁓ this is what you like to do. This is how we can prepare, prepare against it. Because I think it for me, it's a lot easier to
after you see someone to make adjustments then versus when you're doing well and then try to make the right adjustments.
Austen Bundy (53:42)
I think you guys are make excellent points on both fronts there, but I'm to take option three, which maybe shouldn't be weighed too much, but I think it was a bit of a down year for the conference last year, which is ironic to say considering Western Michigan and Denver were both in the frozen four. but the fact that the rest of the conference didn't necessarily have a huge impact on national standings relatively, but.
I think ASU benefited from the fact that everybody else, well, one, yes, didn't have a whole lot of tape on ASU, didn't really get a chance to prepare too much for their style of play. I do think ASU benefited from the fact that a lot of these powerhouse teams finished relatively mid table last year and ASU was competing at the top there for the entire year with Western Michigan. And I don't think a whole lot of people would have.
predicted that going in and just the fact that Teams that you're seeing this year who are traditional powerhouses in the NCHC teams you expect to be around the top all the time We're not necessarily doing that last year and I think that was just good timing for ASU and also just they took advantage of the games that they That they should have won they won in the games that they weren't expected to win or the series They weren't expected to sweep. They stole a lot of sweet a lot of splits there
So I think it's just, it's a timing thing. It's just, this is an off year injuries. Like there's a whole lot of perfect storm elements that are going into this. We're last year at benefited ASU and this year it's going against them.
Andrew Hayslett (55:22)
I forgot about that. That's a really great point, Austin.
Tom Hardon (55:26)
With ten games left in the regular season, time will tell how this edition of Sun Devil Hockey will finish out, but we're all keeping our fingers crossed for as good a finish as possible. Sun Devils are on the road at Colorado College.
on friday and saturday night those of you in the phoenix market you will be able to watch the game on local tv on fox ten and both games do stream nationally on nchc.tv or listen to the tower paleo and alex coil on fox sports nine ten phoenix on the iHeart radio app we're to close up our show this week with ⁓ with the
ASU baseball celebrity softball game that will be taking place on Sunday, the unofficial kickoff to baseball season. And I think there's certainly a there's a there's there's a clear winner and a clear loser as far as the roster goes. What do you guys think about that before we get before we get too too close and too indefinite?
Austen Bundy (56:36)
Well,
one of them's got Kam Skataboo and the other doesn't. So I think there's your demark, your line of demarcation. But I think, I mean, if you're going to go based off of just recognizable names and star power on each team, mean, Team Arizona State, you're leading off with Spencer Torkelson. I mean, automatic base hit there. Kam Skataboo, Ryan Burr, Jake Sheffield, Michael Benjamin, Chip Gosowich, Mickey Mitchell, Kyle Williams, the OG Kyle Williams.
Amber Freeman, Laura Bradley, Blake Stauffer, McKenna Marsh, Justin Polnau, and Zach Lynn. I mean, that's a pretty stacked team compared to Team Sun Devils, which has ⁓ Dallas Escobedo, Aaron Simpson, JJ Van Neil, The Goat, Jeff Larrish, ⁓ Rudy Burgess, Jake Borup, ⁓ Kyle Williams 2.0, Mike Jones, Kyle Dodd, Brianna Peterson.
⁓ Kyle Luckham, Doug Shut, Eric Sim, and Cole Tucker. So, I mean, this is going to be probably a double digit win for Team Arizona State if I'm going to make any predictions, but ⁓ that'll be an interesting matchup.
Tom Hardon (57:51)
I'm very intrigued to see Kam Skadevue with a bat in hand. One, to see how he swings it and two, just to see if he decides to take a lick of it before he swings it. I mean, it would be completely on brand if he were to lick the bat while on the field.
Andrew Hayslett (58:12)
Is Kemp Scadaboo gonna try to just hit stick a position player or a catcher? We know that he loves to do it in football. Can he try to do it in baseball? Just absolutely run over someone.
Tom Hardon (58:29)
I mean, could this turn into the Sun Devil's version of Banana Ball even, just with the antics that Garibu could get up to?
Austen Bundy (58:40)
I mean, he's gonna lower his head. I would not be surprised if they send him around there and he lowers his head going into home.
Tom Hardon (58:48)
I want to wrap whoever's behind the plate in pillows in addition to whatever gear they may be wearing.
Andrew Hayslett (58:58)
Yeah, I would not want to be on the receiving end of Cam Scadaboo. I'd just duck and cover.
Tom Hardon (58:58)
Thank
I'd just be like, nope, here you go, you can have the plate. Just do what you will, just don't hurt me.
But it's exciting time we will be we will be bringing you baseball coverage as the season is starting to ramp up. That season gets started on February 13th, I believe. Correct, Andrew?
Andrew Hayslett (59:28)
I should know I'm the so-called baseball expert here so yeah double check you I do have yep that's right February 13th versus University of Nebraska Omaha which is a college hockey rival
Tom Hardon (59:42)
So we're ⁓ getting
an NCHC matchup on ⁓ the diamond before we get the actual matchup on the ice. That'll be a fun little crossover that we could cover as that series gets started.
Andrew Hayslett (59:57)
And then the Tuesday after, it's another hockey school in Yukon. So not an NCHC school, but something to note there.
Austen Bundy (1:00:11)
Another Hurley connection there too.
Tom Hardon (1:00:11)
And
a ⁓ little bit of home state pride for me as well. ⁓ Don't worry, Centerville fans, I'm not defecting from the maroon gold. I will not be repping my home state for that one. But we will be bringing you all the coverage ⁓ of baseball, of hockey, of basketball as the season winds on for Centerville athletics. That's everything that I had for this show. Do you guys have any other walk-in topics before we sign off?
Austen Bundy (1:00:42)
from the East Coast, better cold East Coast.
Tom Hardon (1:00:45)
All right, well, for Austin, for Andrew, for Aya, who was on with us for our basketball segment earlier, I'm Tom Harden. And David, is definitely a real person. Shout out to our listeners who may doubt him. I'm Tom Harden, and as always, give them hell devils.
Austen Bundy (1:00:52)
And David, who is definitely real. ⁓