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The Real Estate Addicts (REA) podcast is a must-listen for anyone interested in real estate development, investment, construction and entrepreneurship. Each episode dives into a wide range of industry topics and features conversations with savvy, successful entrepreneurs who candidly share their career paths, challenges, breakthroughs, and the stories behind the remarkable companies they’ve built. Expect big personalities, thoughtful insights, and conversations that both educate and inspire.
Co-hosted by Ray Hurteau, Dan Rubin (Instagram: @rhinvestgroup), and Marc Savatsky (Instagram: @choose_boston)
Follow the Real Estate Addicts Podcast on YouTube: @RealEstateAddicts
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What's this? What is the intro music? That's not the intro music, it? Being a landlord. All right. What's it like? So September 1st, uh Alston Christmas just came and went. I don't know if it's Alston Christmas anymore. I think it's just like Boston Christmas. Boston It's just a disaster everywhere. Couches on every corner. Yeah. Some good stuff, I mean, if you got your eyes open for it. Oh yeah. Yeah. I actually, was, it actually worked out perfectly. I, since I recently moved, I was selling a ton of stuff. from my old place, that's like the perfect time to sell everything. Stuff like flew on Marketplace. you got like, hey, I'm interested. And then you said, yeah. I got inundated with people that were getting mad because I would post something, I get like 20 messages and I would respond to somebody and. I would respond to someone like an hour later and then they'd be mad and they'll be like, someone's coming to pick it up. And they were like, I'll give you more money than you asking for. And I was like, I can't just tell someone not to come. But thanks for the tip on the next one. uh I was like, what, what are you talking about? People are getting mad. You underpriced all your assets. mean, I just wanted, it was a fire sale. I want to get rid of So I had three units turnover and I do my own property management. So some lessons that I've learned from years past, one is I had Andrew from Tough Guys LLC. stop by each property and just do a quick trash out after the first. Because inevitably the prior tenants all moved out on the 31st. Trash day isn't until, make it up, September 4th. And in the meantime, all this stuff just sits on the sidewalk and I collect tickets. this guy found a niche area where he comes by just curbside. He does all my junk removal. He cleans job sites. So I had him go to each rental. and just take care of all that crap. And I'm assuming during your turnovers you have cleaners come in in the morning of and do a clean and stuff. Cause I had two units turnover in one of my buildings as well. It's always interesting trying to coordinate that because tenants don't necessarily understand. It's like, my lease starts 1201 AM on September 1st. And I'm sending them a message and I was like, well, the cleaners will be there at like, between 7.30 and eight in the morning and you can most likely move in. I will give you the lockbox code at like 11 a.m. and then can move in and they were like, a lot of them don't, they were like, why? Well the lease ends the night before at 11.59 so it's like the people there, hey is it okay if I move out the morning of? Usually you say, yeah, it's okay. You gotta be out by like nine, right? So there's time to I usually don't allow that. I usually say, yeah, I gotta be out the night before. So are they homeless one night? I've never had any issues. I know. Although some of my incoming tenants did ask if they could store some stuff in the basement like a couple days before and that I'm okay with doing. That's a good move. Yeah. So the other lesson learned that I did was like, I think I set expectations well, whereby I explained that whole thing to the new group. I'm like, listen, we try as hard as we can. This isn't a hotel. It's not perfect. Thank you. So anyway, if there's an issue upon moving in, know, the cleaner's missed something, the bathtub is still dirty, just let me know and we'll take care of it immediately. Exactly. And so I did get like one such call and they were lovely about it. And I sent the cleaner back and we fixed it. Like not a huge deal. But like times before I get calls from like angry parents, you know, like, this is Dan's mom. I find it totally unacceptable that the backyard wasn't mowed yet. It's like, all right. We had a situation like that a couple of years ago. tenant toured and one of the tenants living there had an AC unit in the window and it just happened to be like it came with the building. The tenant that moved out didn't realize that, took it with her and then the person moving in was like, this needs to be resolved immediately. My daughter will not be able to sleep. I was like, the other person said they're coming, they're gonna drop it off tomorrow and apologize. I don't know what to tell you. Go to Home Depot and get a fan for the night. don't know. It's some people's expectations. It was a mistake. I don't know. I did get a bunch of, it's funny, because your tenants don't bother you after the first like 30 to 60 days, and then the new tenants move in and depending on who they are, you get all of a sudden, because we use an online, we could talk about the tools that we use as a landlord, but we use an online platform for all maintenance requests. Oh yeah. So it's called Rent Ready. Do you manage your Linn building? Yes. Pretty much, yeah. Oh I mean, we have folks that... When you say we manage it, it's, know, we take the calls or we have a VA that takes the calls and the texts and the tickets that Dan was referring to. But we have a team of people that handle it depending on what the situation is. And then just in case something comes in overnight, we have a 24 or seven call answering service. So if it's a real emergency, they'll call me and this way here, don't just. So the tenants came in and it was funny because they submitted like six or seven tickets immediately the next day. And then she texted me and she was like, she texted me at 9.30 PM on like a Sunday night or something. And she was like, when are all these gonna get resolved? And I didn't respond until the next morning. I was like, we try to get to all the requests within 24 hours, at least a response and a date of when they're being gonna be scheduled. If it's a non-emergency, obviously emergency stuff is gonna get responded to immediately. If you're having an overflowing toilet or something, like if, if you're light bulbs out, yeah. your light bulb is out or like your smoke detector is chirping. Like it can 24 hours is kind of where we try to be. know. So challenges that I have every move in, haven't really solved this that well. One is like light bulbs being out. Two is like blinds or window dressing shades. Yeah. So like constantly. The blind in the guest bedroom aren't functioning. It's like they were left over from four tenants ago. Like I don't provide shades. So, I are you are you are as a for rentals, aren't you supposed to supply window? Some treatments murky area. It's one thing that gray area. The one thing they that whenever we have a housing inspection with Section 8, for example, some of them will harp on not us not having a shower bar for the shower. for them to hang their I think not having a shower bar is a mistake because it's a shower without a curtain and all that water will just run through your floor and into Well, see, to my point, like, that Dan was making is just, I think it's a preference, right? I don't necessarily want to use somebody else's shower bar. Shower bar? A bar? Yeah, yeah. Because you're putting your face cloth over it and I don't want anything that's... You are? I mean, where do you put your face cloth? Not to get off topic. No. I say a bar certainly is standard. I whether you want to give them a liner, like sometimes I do that. Like I, when I moved in, I just had Amazon shipped to each one, a plastic liner. was there with the rings. And then when you show up, when they move out, the box is still there. They never put it up. But I think window treatments for me, I think they're inexpensive enough. to go to Home Depot and buy inexpensive window treatments because I don't, a, I guess visually and from a curb appeals perspective, like you're gonna show up to someone's house. I've seen it before. Every window has a different window dressing in it and it looks awful. So if I can just provide an inexpensive blind and all of the windows look consistent, I think it's just a much better look and it's an inexpensive way to keep people happy. So that's the deal I made. I said, Just measure the blinds for me and give me a list of the blinds and I will get them They actually make these like tool lists shades now that you get on Amazon They're like spits. It's almost like a shower rod bar and you put a little yeah Yeah, they're actually pretty pretty okay, and they're not that expensive so I I told the length after I've never seen that we'll put the link in the show notes Yeah, great. Well because that is the problem is like the ones you get from Home Depot or Lowe's They're the cheapest ones The reason I don't like having them in there or just assuming you're going to replace them every turnover, they just accumulate, especially in the city, all the crud and dust and dirt from the road that they're just filthy. All right. Moving along from window dressings. about just the turnover in general? Like are you doing pre-move out inspections or having somebody do that? Or do you just basically rely on the statement of condition and then go from what the people moving in talk about? I feel like I shouldn't say this here because I'm just like, I've never taken a dime of a security deposit. I enlarge, just goes Do you collect security deposits? Yeah. And I hold them the right way and I do all that, but I don't know. I'm kind of a lazy landlord in many respects and that laziness tends to go to the tenants favor. So when they call me and they're like, dude, the toilet's not flushing. I don't like check like, Hey, did you try this easy thing or that easy thing? Just send a plumber. And at this point it's like, I'm not paying for property management. So. If I send a plumber once or twice and it wasn't necessary. Okay. sense. Makes sense. I always give like a 30 day grace period, like any clogs or any slow drains or clogs 30 days. And then after that, I didn't put anything down there and there's nothing wrong with the stack. Yeah. Like the tenants that just moved in, they, they complained that the drain in the tub was, draining slowly and oh We had our drain guy go out and there was a bunch of hair in the drain. I was like, well, that's, that's, that's like a normal wear and tear, like the previous tenants. also love Amazon, like deals that I'll make often where like light bulbs are an example. I'd be like, just, okay, open that fixture, text me a photo of the bulb that's in there. And I'm going to mail you six of those and you're going to go around and put them in. They're always like, cool, thanks. So for 30 bucks, I'm out of it instead of 180 to send someone there or exactly my time. So like, yeah, I've been doing a lot of that. is it cool if I just ship you Drano? Yeah, it's not bad. I mean, one day, like, uh same day, sometimes for sure. That's a good hack. And I saw that actually we rented an Airbnb and we had an issue where we clogged the drain and we were looking for a plunger, but there was none. So we messaged them and they're like, Oh, I'll just have, I'll just have them. They used Uber courier service to ship. was like, that's awesome. Yeah. Dope. Yep. Smart. Similarly about going back to Windows better screens that are that are like torn like they're so fragile They're always so like this time I was like look ace Hardware fixes them if you take them out the window and bring them to ace Just take take that out of your rent check next month and they were super grace gracious about it. Like yeah, that's fine That's good. That's very I mean, it's like it's like at the end of the block. You know I mean? Well, there's a diff. Oh right in South. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's they don't get into the car no, but so You try and make it convenient and fair, right? Yeah. It's a balance. Maybe toss them a little extra something for the effort or whatever. Yeah. I mean, one thing we did at our new building in Lynn this year is that we just kind of did a tenant thing, like a formal tenant thank you gift. Well, we kind of expanded that. Yeah. No, I'm saying like in Lynn we- No, but we say, cause I did the same, like I did Oh, that's right. I'd ask you if you want. Yep. That's right. Yeah. So it's just more like, Hey, thanks for being one of our tenants. them? Around the holiday times. there's a website called Goody and it's, you know, Gifts are always the weirdest thing because how do I know what somebody likes? This is essentially you set a dollar amount and we set a pretty decent amount and they get to choose one or more gifts as long as it doesn't go over or if pay the difference. So they get to choose from like, it's like Etsy almost where all these different individual creators or artists or whoever create these things or places selling stuff. But it was very nice, well received. Most people jumped in on Do you use any type of platform for rent collection or how do you handle all that? So for the longest time up to this year, I've always insisted on mailed checks to me made out to each LLC because all my rentals are in an LLC. And what's nice about that is I cash the check and it goes into that account. So the accounting is super simple, but they don't like mailing checks. I was going to say we don't even have a dinosaur sound. Until this year. know. They must be begging for Venmo or something, right? When I first started being a landlord, I used to have a policy where I'd go to collect the checks each month. I'd make you leave them on the kitchen table, and once a month I'd go to the property and pick them up. And it was my way of being disciplined about making sure the house was still standing and in good repair, like an opportunity to That's actually not a bad left, look right, you know? It was a good idea. I just got lazy. Busy, busy. Busy, yeah. Yeah, that's true too. So anyway, lease runner is the answer to your question. started using this and Galvin hooked me up with this, this software. She said that she used it, but screens tenants, it saves all the leases, like takes a minute to organize it. But once it's organized, it's really nice. Like the rent rolls, the accounting backend, the reports, their statement of conditions, like everything is there. Nice. And every time a tenant pays, goes to the correct account. Yeah. Instead of having to worry about the checks. Right. And they cost them $5 to do the electronic payment. Oh, you're making them pay it? They pay it. Yikes. Why? Ooh, free for us. ACH is free, credit cards. We'll take them, but the fee. But I don't keep it. I can do ACH, but then I'm responsible to turn it off or something. So I just know that they'll move out and it'll draw again. And they'll be like, Mark, you stole money. know, just have a lot going on. Yeah. That's fair. Yeah. It would be nice if you could set an end date on Oh yeah, probably could and you know. So does that also collect the maintenance requests or do they email you? They have a phone number. text me. They have your personal cell? Yeah, my personal cell. You gotta get away from that. No. We're using Grasshopper now. Really? Yeah. But to set up... Well, we also have our VA, so she's the one responding. So a maintenance item comes in and they submit it to the platform that we use, RentReady, which is nice because they can attach pictures, videos, it can all be documented. I'm such a control freak though, like here's what happens. Even I'll use an example of like condo sales. Moe's like, please send your warranty request to property management. And so they go to property management and then they come to me and then I just like call the tenant. And then I end up like being directly involved with it till it's fixed. know, it's like, also cause like maybe somebody owes me that warranty and I don't want just a property manager sending a plumber over when my plumber owes me a repair on that for a year. you set up property management for like your condos that you're selling? Yeah, I do. don't man. I'm not the property manager. don't recommend that. No, but I'm saying you don't allow the tenants to kind of vote or bring in whoever they want. What if they don't want? Well, they could fire them. There's no, there's a long-term contract I'm signing. Okay. But, you know, but there's a little bit of a conflict of interest if you manage your own properties. I don't know. just. How so? Cause I always feel like I'm doing, well, Dan and I will agree. Like I'm always doing too We've fired, we've gone through probably three or four different property managers and, and. every time we get rid of them because they are not doing as good of a job as we'd like them to do. It's like being the owner, you're, I mean, I don't know, as the owner, I feel responsible for making sure they're okay. I think it's the same way that we've had this discussion before about being a developer and self-performing, right? You're never, hiring a GC is good. but they're never gonna care about the building that you're building as much as you are. We feel the same way about the rental side of things and managing the rentals. That's perfect analogy. I agree. mean, kind of mixing messages here, but like as condo sales, as a developer, you don't wanna be the trustee for very long. No, I agree. And one of the issues is like, if there's an issue down the road and the condo association gets together, there's like a certain statute of limitations statute. And if you were the trustee, You know, that clock, say the legal term is tolls. And the idea is like, you're a fox in the hen house. Like whose interests were you looking out for as the trustee of the association? Yours as developer or the, so it's a bad. Yeah. Something, something I try not to do. I know other developers should try to stay in the trustee as long as possible to control it. No, I don't think we don't. Stay as the trustee or be a property, be an HOA manager. No, trustee. Okay. I don't, I wouldn't want that. I don't want to do that. Why would they want that? You know, control everything. Weird. I don't know. Anyway, anything else you got for rentals? it's okay in some respects. think, think of this, you've got a bigger building and you've sold X units and you're completely out. And now some buyer comes in there, like, I want to combine two units and it requires approval of the HYA board or like, I want to buy the unit without a parking spot and sell the parking spot to somebody outside. Like you've seeded all that control. But you're saying this is after the sellout, after you're gone. Well, sometimes it turns over after 50 % of the units or the sellout could take a year and a half on a 60 unit building. We typically like to keep control until the 100 % sellout. Yeah. But all our projects have been on the Yeah, we haven't sold, we haven't done a 50 unit condo project. Sure. interestingly, back to being a landlord. Yeah. to where you are supposed to have the full control and... And take all the responsibility. This was a conversation I had this weekend is about tenants giving you notice that they're going to break their lease. feel like there's like a textbook and then there's the real world in the textbook. It's like, well, what does their lease say? And the real world it's like, they're going to leave on October 1 and they're going to stop paying you rent. You better just list it and try to get, know, get this off your back. And so I'd always have a provision in my lease that just says, if you break the lease, it's a $500. It's a one month penalty. And that way it's just, everything's on the table and out there. Like, I'm not going to pretend that you can't break the lease and you must stay for 12. You know, life happens. Okay. Here's, I'll put you out. Contrarian there. Okay. Let's say you had somebody that toured the building virtually on like a Facebook, you know, a FaceTime and then liked it. But then when they moved in for some reason, they didn't like the neighborhood. or some other aspect of the building. And then they just wanted to get out as a matter of convenience, not as a matter of necessity. Do you break them down between the two or do you say, well, if you're not happy, you're not happy, so just leave? The latter. Yeah. I have another flip side. What if someone leaves? February 1st and you miss the September 1st cycle. You're in the middle of the winter and now you can only lease the unit. You can lease the unit for like three to four hundred dollars less a month than you were getting. So I say take a month's rent as a penalty. even if you maybe you get a 13 month year if you're fortunate enough to rent it the very next month for the same price and you get the penalty, you know, that's in your favor. Maybe it's vacant for two months and you lose out a little bit. But I think the rules of engagement are set and all risks are known by both parties because my counter to your, both of your examples is what are you going to do when they say pound sand? like, are you really going to pursue it? think what we, correct me if I'm wrong Ray, I think what we typically do is if someone says that they want to move out or break their lease, we say, okay, we will start marketing the unit. immediately and you're on the hook to pay the rent until we get it leased. Released. What if it's leased for a lower price point? they pay the We don't make them pay the difference. Well, hold on. Do we? Hold on. Yeah, hold on. First of all, it's a case by case basis. we will say, you signed something saying you're going to live here. Now we had a situation where one of our tenants struck the housing lottery and got actual, know, an affordable. Even in the Powerball? Not, not the power ball, but they, got the housing lottery. So they have a unit come up, they qualify. of like the power ball. Yeah. And so they moved out and we had that agreement. Like, well, the max we'll take is X number of months. And if we can't get it released then that's on us, but this is the maximum here. Other times we'll just say it's a flat fee to come out and break the lease. Or like Dan said, we'll say, let's just start marketing it now and try and get at least so that you're not on the hook for anything. Can you hang in for another 30, 60 days? And it depends on the situation, but it's never, I've seen other landlords that have a clause similar to what you're saying, where it'll say like, if you're not happy, here's our fee. It's usually like two months or something. So to give one month is very- Yeah, I guess it's on a case by case basis. we try to, obviously we try to work with the tenant. I guess- they're not, if they're not like assholes about it. How about, you know, I think another example, subletters. You can say no subletters allowed, but I ran into a lot of young professionals and inevitably one of them gets a job in DC, Chicago, wherever. And they're like, I'm out next month, but my friend Larry is gonna move in. It's like, what are you gonna do? So to me, there's a sublet fee also, and you can do it, find a subletter. I need to approve of them and approval won't be unreasonably withheld. as long you're I actually just went through the same thing with the tenants moving in now. One of the girls that is moving in in the unit, she's not starting her job until January. So she wanted someone to sublet her room through the end of the year for like the four months that they're gonna be there. And I was like, ah, it's fine. As long as I, they're going to go through the same checks. Like I'm still going to run credit. I'm still going to prove income and all that stuff. And if they're fine, then I don't care. Well, I also explained to my tenants, joint and several. I'm like, listen, this is, this is the reality of it is this person is going to join you on the lease and you're all responsible. If they lose their job or they stop paying their portion, you're all responsible together. So that's why actually renting to young professionals is kind of nice. Like four unrelated parties, you know, Rent to mom and dad and one of them loses their job. Yeah. We actually do the opposite in our college rental down in Bridgewater. So we'll say on the lease in the addendum that it's, we assume unless written otherwise or noted otherwise in writing that whatever the rent is, you're splitting it three ways and everyone's equal. And for the co-signers, like you'll be responsible for your students portion. So if, you know, John doesn't pay and, Jack is there, then, you know, the two of them don't have to worry about paying for somebody else's. I think that generous of you. Like I think pro forma, like table stakes is joint and several. Yeah. So you might as well have like, that's the only property Joe has a rich mom. Like his mom can pay for. Well, I remember being in college and that was a sticking point for one of our families. were like, well, we don't want to co-sign for people we don't know as a parent. Right. Probably cave if they pushed me on it and they're good, but I'm going to start with. Yeah. And we've seen quite a few where roommates have issues mid cycle and then they have to figure it out. Like I had somebody call me one time and said, my daughter hasn't been living there for six months. I was like, that's news to me. I didn't know you were having an issue. Let's talk about other, like I certainly, as everyone does, use the like standard form, Massachusetts lease agreement. But then I have my own addendum. And that addendum has been updated and, you know, massaged over many years. What are some terms that you guys like that maybe aren't standard? Yeah, I'll show you mine if you show me yours, right? Yeah. Yeah. I would say, first of all, I agree with you. We use the standard M.A.R. lease or G.B.R.B.B. It doesn't matter. One of the two. Cause the addendum rules all. One of the terms, you know, one term that we put in for a while and I don't think I've ever used, but the insurance companies sometimes make a big deal about it is like no water beds. Yeah. So I have a clause in there about like water related furniture and like, Fish tanks, no fish tanks. Yeah. I'll allow up to five gallons without a question. Do you? Here's one that I have in mind, and I don't know if we still have it in the other ones, but I put it in mind, is not allowing any of the utility providers or like Comcast or anybody to drill into the house without expressly written consent by the owner. That's good. And no satellite dishes. And no satellite dishes. Oh, that's good too. Yeah. Well, there was a scenario where what like wasn't something resided or we had like all the wires cleaned up and then someone moved in and next thing you knew, a hole was drilled right through the middle and gross wire run right up the side after it all been cleaned up. that was more on the aesthetic side. That's cool. Yeah. I don't want people just drilling into my house without me knowing. I have something in there about like ability for me to send service providers into the house. Cause it's like, it's hard enough to get someone to come to fix it. It's even harder if you're like, you have to only come on Tuesday. And I have a break in my meetings from one to one 44. You're like, that's, this isn't ordering from Uber eats. My electrician will be there at some time on Tuesday. And like, I'm going to give them a key and I'm not going to sit there and wait for the four hours either. know, built some people have, but that is actually legitimate. Some people have some serious privacy concerns or, I tell them if you're, if you're concerned like. put a camera in there something. don't know. My biggest pet peeve is actually that like in terms of warranty stuff, landlord stuff. It's like I'm maybe I'm too far on the trusting end of the spectrum, but I've never really heard an example of like a tradesman who comes into your home and takes your shitty jewelry. I just, we, I only have one data point on that. It's not even a direct one, but one of our electricians told us that they went to go do a service call and then. No one was there and no one from management was there. And so they ended up having like, they claim something was taken, right? They could claim something was taken. No one was there to prove otherwise or say otherwise. so they tried to like sue them over it. And he's like, yeah, that was, that was awful. So my policy now is I'm not going in unless somebody from management is there. And that's his policy because of the nonsense he went through. So yeah, I don't know. I have a general, so we have, we've now broken it out into like a general addendum and this. m you this something we ended up doing just because I kept updating one and then having to update the others, you know, when you have a really good clause and then you're like, I just made it better. Oh shit. I got to put on all the other ones we have. So I have a general property one that applies everywhere. And then I'll have a property specific one. Parking is example. I get you. I get you. So I just include them all in if they're not relevant. it's like, if I talk about partying on the roof deck and you don't have a roof deck, you just do blanket coverage for everything. And if it sticks, it sticks. Sometimes tenants read it though and they're like, I don't get it. You're talking about two parking spaces. Yeah. It's like, do I get two parking spaces? Right. Avoid that confusion. Yeah. I don't know. We just have like general cleanliness, pest control. The main thing, and Dan knows this, the number one thing, garbage disposals. Right. I hate hates them. I want them ripped out every possibility I can. Cause all they do is break and cause problems. But they're obviously a selling point and amenity if you will. But. I don't think they're an amenity or a selling point anymore. They're just come standard in an apartment in Boston. don't think people, why do people care so much about that? I'll tell you what. I think the problem is they think with a garbage disposal, anything goes down the drain. It And that's not true. And you're going to screw things up. I know. Well, yeah, actually on our bigger projects in Boston, they push back on allowing garbage disposals. Who's they? Boston Water and Sewer. Really? Yeah, they do not want you to be putting... They don't love it. Well, I'm sure they don't. They probably don't like flushable wipes either. Yeah. Causes, was it fatbergs? I think in the sewer line? Renters insurance. This is another thing that just came up. do you require renters We have to now, at least at some of the properties. And do you have to like collect it and prove it or do you just say like, nah, I required it, they didn't get it. So the clause that you ask the tenant to do when they set up their policy is add you as an additional interest, which basically means... the insurance company is going to send you a copy in the mail of their policy. And if they cancel, they'll send you a notification of cancellation or non-renewal. And this way here, you know that they at least have a policy. Great example, we just unfortunately had an issue where a tenant almost caught the building on fire, accidentally, of course, but if they didn't have their policy and that actually happened to cause a lot more damage, then they'd be on the hook for it personally, right? They caused the issue, so. I mean, I don't know what they have. Yeah. mean, like if they don't have any assets, then that's one thing, but, it's also the, uh, the master insurance policy for the building required it. Oh, and they want, they want to make sure that there's coverage in place. So if a tenant does cause an issue, the first, you know, a hundred K is quote unquote off the hook. don't require it per se. have in the past from time to time, but I always tell tenants like it's the cheapest insurance there is. And it covers everything. Like if you're skiing. Killington and someone takes your goddamn snowboard. That's renter's insurance. If all your food goes bad because the fridge breaks, don't call me. That's renter's insurance. there's- you had, have you gone through that? Like with the, with the fridge going bad? Yeah. Okay. That's the thing. Cause usually the appliance folks will say, submit a claim. Yeah, but they won't give you nearly as they didn't give me the whole amount. Right. Right. Yeah. What about, I don't know, just, I guess for the renter's insurance thing, that's a big thing. We used to say strongly recommended. Oh, I guess that's the main thing with the insurance is that people don't realize that if something does happen to the apartment, at least here in Massachusetts, the landlord's insurance only pays 750 per tenant. That's it. So if the building burns down, you get 750 bucks and a good luck. You don't get anything else. That's why the renter's insurance is so important. Wait, what? There's no relocation fees. Oh, for them? For them. Unless you've explicitly like paid for some kind of rider or addendum, which I don't know why you would. No, yeah. So that's a big one. The other thing I started doing, and we dealt with this a few years ago was like the, let's say you have to, a tenant does try to skip out or, know, they don't pay or you got to get an attorney to send a letter. All of those things I now have as like part of a potential claim or deduction. Again, am I going to be able to enforce it or collect it? No, but if the teeth are there, then the incentive is lessened. You know, that's a good point. All right. Last thing, the new real estate, uh, salesperson or. Oh, the brokerage thing. So basically no broker fees. Yeah. Well, so it brokers, but landlord pays for it. Yes. So, so I know. It's kind of a brave new world. don't have a lot of. I read the language and how it reads is that you can, you can't force them. If you hired somebody to market your property and a tenant is interested, you can't make them pay that fee. You also cannot say, well, you can't submit an application without representation to basically force them to hire a broker. And then you have a website that says, you know, call me to schedule showings. So they kind of nipped it both ways. you can't go direct. If it's a landlord and a tenant direct, that's the, you're not charging yourself a fee or a fee. It was very interesting though, when I was leasing out my, two vacant units, I was, it was like super quiet. I had like no activity. And then the second that decision came out after what I think it went into effect, well, August 1st. Mm-hmm. was like the floodgates opened. I had so many people starting to look at the apartments. It was crazy. was like everyone was waiting to pounce when that August 1st timeline. Yeah, they didn't realize that it had to do with when the lease started, not when you engaged in the relationship. I thought it was interesting. The uptick in activity afterwards was crazy. I don't know. will be interesting next year. yeah, I mean. I think there are going to be broker fees and landlords that need realtors to lease their units up because they don't have time for whatever. They don't think they're up to it. they'll, mean, but if think about it, if you have a hundred units as a landlord, you're not going to lease all of them up. Like you're not going to go and take showings. You're going to have, you're still going to have a leasing company, but I might not pay a full month's rent. Well, hold on, hold on, hold on. If it's a licensed agent, then the fee, whatever they charge is there. But if you have an in-house leasing office, They're probably on salary. no, no. But what I'm saying is, is if you have 100 units, and to Mark's point, if I'm giving one agent the exclusive right to lease all of my units, I'm not paying them, I'm gonna negotiate and I'm not gonna pay them one month fee per unit. I'll be like, I'll give you a half a month. If they agree to it. Choose Boston Blue, which is exempt from this conversation. This was a good conversation. think this was the topic for September 1st. You know, I think developers should aspire to be landlords. Like I certainly do a lot of condo stuff, but to me, that's a deal with the devil and long-term. You don't win at Monopoly by selling your pieces. Yep. So I'll leave it there. It's nice when you're not doing a project to still have income coming in mailbox money. Mailbox money. Love it. Thank you guys. All right. We'll see you. Catch you on the next one. Cheers. Peace. you